From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2005 #83 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, March 21 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 083 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Prairie Girl Track List? ["Michael O'Malley" ] Glimpses of late 70's Grammys ["Michael O'Malley" ] Re: Sex Kills [Randy Remote ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 23:13:23 +0000 From: "Michael O'Malley" Subject: Re: Prairie Girl Track List? I agree with you Bob, that it is probably not a great artistic decision on Joni's part to re-release a string of compilations of older work in quick succession. Personally, as a long-time fan and consumer, these don't interest me in the least. However, I'm sure she sees herself (rightly so) in the pantheon of the 20th century greats such as Piaf, Sarah, Ella, Nina, Etta, etc. All these artists saw multiple releases of their work in various different compilations and incarnations during their lifetimes. In hindsight, did this hurt their reputations? I may be naive here, but I think Joni is feerful that much of her music will be forgotten, and this is her final push to try to give wings to some of her lesser known work. I think she is hoping that these compilations will reach a new, younger audience. To do this she needs new product, or something that looks like new product (even though it is old product, repackaged.) Aside from Blue, I doubt her older work would be picked up by younger fans. Joni is playing a marketing game, producing product that might get noticed by radio, print media, etc. I don't see it as a money grab. I don't think she's sitting on her laurels either. I think she's into painting as never before. I also think it's unfortunate that both her desire to make music and her vocal capacities have diminished over the years. But we can't change any of that. I fully agree that the arc of her artistic journey and her professional integrity seem unparalled in the music business. But she's not in a vacuum, she's on the periphery of the LA music scene. She's been around long enough to know how it works. And it's her prerogative to do what she pleases with her catalogue. Despite her vulnerability to criticism, she has always trusted her instincts and stuck to her guns. That's my take on it. I can only wish her the best. And I *am* looking forward to seeing what turns up on PG ;-) Michael in Quebec _________________________________________________________________ Take advantage of powerful junk e-mail filters built on patented Microsoft. SmartScreen Technology. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN. Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 12:59:32 -0500 From: "janine sherman" Subject: DC minifest/Eagles/Masked and Anonymous Clear DayHello all,=20 Hey Lori, we would love a mini Jonifest in DC, right?? We saw The Eagles live Friday night, what an over 3 hour show. They did = a couple of James Gang hits- Joe Walsh was in his glory. Big blurb in = the program about The Walden Woods Project in which Joni has = participated (Joni connection.) In fact, I think Joni says gettin' all = dolled up singing with an orchestra for it put her in the mood for the = BSN trend. Has anyone else on the list seen the movie Masked and Anonymous? Bob = Dylan and a loaded cast? We got it on Amazon and watched it last night. = Lots to talk about. I have to side with Laura (what's up Doc?) on her least favorite Joni = song. If I were to choose one and then listen to it, I would find some = truth or beauty I had missed. Burn your socks everyone, it is SPRING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Janine [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Clear Day Bkgrd.JPG] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 18:49:06 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: Sex Kills, totally JC (was Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2005 #80) It's not a question for me of agreeing with the message. It's that the message is naove and muddled. Does the fact that "sex sells everything" in the 90s media-saturated environment (and since when is it new for sex to be used in advertising?)--is that responsible for gas leaks, oil spills, holes in the ozone layer? Yes, perhaps a worship of the proverbial almighty dollar, which is a motive behind using sex to sell might be somehow peripherally related, but any cogent cultural analysis would be precise about this. There's also the related matter of associating gangsta culture (Just Ice) with Exxon, and yes, rap and hip-hop were/have been commercially co-opted, but the connections Joni makes are muddled. ON the one hand, hip-hop culture is oppositional, on the other, it becomes (has become) mere fashion in many ways, and it makes more money in its sexist/violent manifestations, than in its more nuanced manifestations. And then, the lawyers- Robespierre line--pretty much a non sequitur, but lawyers (and doctors) make easy targets, don't they? Some of this cultural analysis would be at home with some of our most conservative ideologues--remember the Republican rhetoric about "trial lawyers"?--(except for the corporate critique)--but that's why I prefer "Passion Play"-with its truly poetic "Exxon blue / And radiation rose." Finally, at the time the song was released with several of my friends dying of HIV-related illnesses--the concept of sex killing seemed a lot more troubling than Joni's screed would imply. HIV is a resounding silence in the song at a time when the slogan "Silence = Death" was not a clichi. It seems to me that she she's implying in the song that she wants to kill sex--yes, perhaps the debased MTV stuff she later complained about in terms of "what would the grandchild think"? But hey--if we just kill sex, which unequivocally kills, then we won't have all these other social ills. Just what the rabid homophobic religious right argues. I'm not saying that Joni is a right-wing religious homophobe, but the political analysis in the song plays right into their hands in many ways. And the worst part about it is---it's obvious she doesn't know this. And that's why I rabidly hated it in 1994. I can listen to it now without cringing, but I mentioned it as my least favorite Joni song--and that includes even "Dancin' Clown" ;-) Richard - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of ROBMSTEEN@aol.com Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 5:14 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2005 #80 Re; Sex Kills Well, as that terrific article on "Survival" testifies, Joni rates Sex Kills as one of her finest compositions. For what it's worth, I think it was one of her five finest post-70s songs (alongside No Apologies, Man from Mars, Beat of Black Wings and Love). The way I see it, if you don't agree with the message, you ain't go a bundle on the song, especially with all that brutal guitar! Did Joni ever rock/spit harder than on that very track? If she did I can't recall it. Rob Steen 3 Langton Terrace Falmouth, Cornwall TR11 2NA 01326 316289 (h) 07813 668726 (mob) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 15:56:51 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Sex Kills ROBMSTEEN@aol.com wrote: I like Sex Kills a lot, and my only complaint about it is that she doesn't rock hard enough. The '95 live take at the New Orleans gig has her using her metal/fuzz setting on the VG8, and it ratchets the tension up another notch - better. I'd still like to hear a version where it's really loud and angry. Ironically, the latest cover of the song from a 2004 Melissa Sweeney release casts the song in a soft jazz setting which surprised me in the way that it works so well. Garrett, please use your influence to get Patti to cover it, willya? Thanks a lot. Bob NP: Joe Jackson, "Happy Loving Couples" Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 01:15:55 +0000 From: "Michael O'Malley" Subject: Glimpses of late 70's Grammys On the topic of the context for DJRD, I looked up the winners of the Grammy Awards from 1975-1979. Not that the Grammy Awards is the ultimate measure of great artistry, but it helps to put the pop music scene of the period into perspective. So we're talking about George Benson, Stevie Wonder(Songs in the Key of Life), Linda Rondstadt, Boz Scaggs, Paul Simon (Still Crazy), Natalie Cole, Earth Wind & Fire, the Eagles, Fleetwood Mac (Rumours), Bee Gees, Thelma Huston, Bily Joel, Donna Summer. These were some of the big hitters of the time. Do any of these have anything in common with DJRD ? Nah, not really, eh? Michael in Quebec _________________________________________________________________ Powerful Parental Controls Let your child discover the best the Internet has to offer. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN. Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 17:26:51 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Sex Kills, totally JC (was Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2005 #80) Richard Flynn wrote: > It's not a question for me of agreeing with the message. It's that > the message is naove and muddled. Does the fact that "sex sells > everything" in the 90s media-saturated environment (and since when > is > it new for sex to be used in advertising?)--is that responsible for > gas leaks, oil spills, holes in the ozone layer? I don't see where she's saying that sex in advertising is responsible for gas leaks, etc. I see the song merely as a list of things that are seriously screwed up in today's world. I just don't see that she's drawing a direct correlation from one thing to the next here except that it's all symptomatic of a world in crisis. Yes, perhaps a > worship of the proverbial almighty dollar, which is a motive behind > using sex to sell might be somehow peripherally related, but any > cogent cultural analysis would be precise about this. But 'Sex Kills' isn't a cogent cultural analysis. It's a song. The words are lyrics, not a doctoral thesis or even poetry. > And then, the lawyers- Robespierre line--pretty much a non sequitur, > but lawyers (and doctors) make easy targets, don't they? I'm not sure that lawyers and doctors are what she's specifically targeting in the song so much as the sue-McDonalds-because-their-coffee's-too-hot mentality and the whole mess of our system of medical care and the astronomical costs associated with it. See 'No Apologies' for a an out and out slam on lawyers. Some of this cultural analysis would be at home with some of our most > conservative ideologues--remember the Republican rhetoric about > "trial lawyers"? I don't follow you here but I would say, again, this isn't an in depth cultural analysis. It's a song lyric. - --(except for the corporate critique)--but that's why > I prefer "Passion Play"-with its truly poetic "Exxon blue / And > radiation rose." > > Finally, at the time the song was released with several of my > friends > dying of HIV-related illnesses--the concept of sex killing seemed a > lot more troubling than Joni's screed would imply. HIV is a > resounding silence in the song Again, I don't follow you. How is HIV a resounding silence in the song? I do have to admit that the statement 'sex kills' does bother me. The act itself does not kill and to say so seems a bit on the simplistic side. Is that what you meant? > I'm not saying that Joni is a right-wing religious homophobe, but > the > political analysis in the song plays right into their hands in many > ways. I do see your point here. I suppose it's less dramatic to say 'unsafe sex can give you a terminal illness' than to just blurt out 'sex kills'. But she didn't say 'homosexual sex kills'. There is no qualifier in the lyric, just the word sex. I guess, having listened to Joni for all these years, I made some assumptions about the lyric that someone unfamiliar with her work might not make. I do have a certain amount of ambivalence about this song. But on the whole, I think she hits most of her marks and makes a very powerful statement about these troubled times. Maybe it is naive in a political sense. But Joni isn't a politician. She's a song writer. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 20:36:46 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Joni featured in upcoming film Not sure if this has been posted before. News on an upcoming documentary film by Rosanna Arquette, featuring Joni and others. http://news.independent.co.uk/people/profiles/story.jsp?story=622070 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 21:25:49 -0500 From: jrmco1@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni featured in upcoming film Thanks, Bryan. What a great interview/article. I'll be first in line to see the documentary when it opens here! (I think I love you, Rosanna.) Did you catch this, about her growing up in a commune in Virginia?: "Beyond the boundaries of the commune, however, lurked less enlightened neighbours. 'We had to go to school in the Blue Ridge Mountains, and it was this hideous, horrible, racist, creepy, backwards kind of state education. I definitely rebelled against that. I was kicked out because I wrote 'black power' on my hand." That was trippy. No wonder she's one of Joan's best friends. - -Julius, who had to choose between seeing Martha Wainwright in SF or Elvis Costello in Oakland on Tues. night. Had to go with the boy who wrote: she was filing her nails/As they were dragging the lake. I'll catch you later, Martha. From: BRYAN8847@aol.com To: joni@smoe.org Sent: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 20:36:46 EST Subject: Joni featured in upcoming film Not sure if this has been posted before. News on an upcoming documentary film by Rosanna Arquette, featuring Joni and others. http://news.independent.co.uk/people/profiles/story.jsp?story=622070 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 19:29:03 -0800 (PST) From: mags h Subject: don juan and the classification of all things Joni mon ami, cher Michel O. in la belle province of Quebec wrote: ***I keep thinking about this music. How does one classify it? What is it? More than any other of Joni's work, this album defies categorization. Is it Pop? Certainly not. Rock? Folk? Jazz? Classical? Worldbeat? Alternative? It's none of these really, and yet it combines elements of all. I don't recall if there were prototypes for this kind of music at the time, maybe others on the list do. But it seems to me that this was a very original work for the period, and perhaps ahead of its time as well. In hindsight we can see how it perfectly reflects the transition from Hejira to Mingus. DJRD is not only truly unique in Joni's oeuvre, it also features her best album art! (after Hejira, of course.) **** and now, une voix from the Canadian prairies ;-) thing is, try to put Joni / Don Juan etc etc etc into some kind of classification, and it doesnt work. perhaps because she just doesnt fit into just one place/genre/voice. (Try as we may). Gotta love this list, every time one of her CDs is raised up in front of that mirror of us,..well suffice to say I run and put whatever it is on, so that I can have a taste all over again. Like others have said, it took me a long time to gather the courage to truly hear things like DJRD and Hejira for what they are. Amazing, incredible gems. Just like Jericho, the walls come tumbling down. I was reminded today that I joined this list five years ago!!! Some kind of celebration is in order, n'est-ce pas?? At that time, the majority of Joni's body of work was unfamiliar to me, including Don Juan, Hejira, For The Roses, yea really!. I've grown to hear her work in ways that I never dreamed possible. I dare say that Don Juan is original and innovative even now. Therein lies the genius of Joan. btw, I'm also a big fan of String Theory, fascinating topic....just goes to show that Physics IS everywhere ;-)) Mags, floating into my dreams ;-)) np: Paprika Plains (delicious song)... Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 22:55:02 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: DJRD on CD Wow, it's just great to see a big thread on one of my favorites, "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter". A few years ago, only David Lahm and I would have been "in" on this thread. I loved DJRD from the first. According to Les's Lyrics page www.jmdl.com/lyrics DJRD was released in December of 1977. I didn't have everything in Joni's catalog up to that point but I was gifted with DJRD that Christmas. It was unimaginably different from Court And Spark. She alone seemed able to weave jazz voices with world-class stories. It wasn't Progressive Rock, but it was as challenging as "Tales Of Topographic Oceans" by Yes. Here was one mind turning in a 2 LP set with as many great ideas as a melting-pot of an album created by a big band full of talented folks. At the time, bad stuff was happening in pop music on the radio. For example, Elton John, who was so good at the beginning started piling on production with stuff like "Your Sister Can't Dance (But She Can Rock and Roll)". It was a fun track, but part of the humor is that it's a comically fast tempo. I always felt like I was laughing "at" the song as much as laughing "with" it. Next, he committed the unforgivable "Caribou" and I gave up on him altogether. Not Joni. In 1977, unlike Elton, her instincts were at full power. I can't begin to articulate how far from "California" (the dulcimer song) she had grown. About 1973, Carole King had a single called "Corazon". That was a stylisitc departure from anything Carole had ever done. But when I played the LP, all of the other tracks were squarely within my expecations for a Carole King album. Not Joni. When she put down the dulcimer, she didn't go back. The strangest thing of all was that Joni was genre-hopping without any loss of quality. Like Vonnegut's Billy Pilgrim, she was "unstuck in time". She could do anything. Her career had the variety of "The Beatles (white album)". Like Harrison, she had talented sidemen as friends, like Lennon she could drop in a Zen like line any time/any where; like McCartney, she could write a world class ballad. The difference was she was only one person wearing all of those hats. She had a forest of super-natural abilities, standing above a generation of super-natural talents. I'm staying right here, in the True Center, Lama Paul said in part, "i feel it is one of > her richest albums." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 21:52:10 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Sex Kills David Henderson wrote: > I don't know why so many people dislike this song. I will join those who think this is one of her best from that era of her work. To me, the lines, "Sex sells everything, and sex kills" is simply a Rorschach view of the hipocracy of the media-driven manufactured culture. Sex is being shoved in our faces (even as the moral elite who are also the super rich who are the $ behind the consumer lust machine insist that extramarital sex is immoral), and yet, sex is (potentially) a deadly activity. Not that sex kills all the time, but it's a loaded gun (especially at the time, before many of the present medications were around). Anyway, all mindfuck aside, I think the song works, and works very well. "And the gas leaks, and the oil spills"...you can almost hear it drip and smell the fumes. She is definitely spitting out some uncomforable truth. Not your average pop song. RR ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2005 #83 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)