From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2005 #50 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, February 17 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 050 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Fresh Air interview ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Joni's "choice" ["Mark or Travis" ] Anybody watch the Grammy Awards? ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] choice [Kate ] RE: Anybody watch the Grammy Awards? ["Richard Flynn" ] fresh air, little green [eaddy sutton ] Re: choice [colin ] "Joni Mitchell: Artist's Choice", short ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Fresh Air interview [Catherine McKay ] Re: State of the List now JC [Michael Paz ] RE: Anybody watch the Grammy Awards? ["David Henderson" ] Re: Anybody watch the Grammy Awards? [Michael Paz ] Re: Fresh Air Interview - More [BRYAN8847@aol.com] RE: Anybody watch the Grammy Awards? ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Fresh Air interview In addition, the baby's father, knowing he had an unborn child, ran away. He lit out for the other side of the continent which is no small thing to an unwed mother. Joni would have had to navigate various jurisdictions to get any financial support from him, in between burping Kelly and paying the rent... with no income. 'Nuff said, Lama Covington, KY Catherine in Toronto, ON said in part, >The baby was not "taken" in the sense of someone snatching her from Joni's arms, but, given her financial situation at the time and the attitudes towards unwed mothers, then there was a great deal of pressure put on Joni to put her daughter up for adoption and she felt (rightly so for the time) that she had no choice> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:14:49 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Joni's "choice" I wasn't going to chime in on this one but had a few thoughts about it and had to leave for work before I could get them written down. First of all, as Mags and Jerry have both made clear, it is really impossible to actually know the thought processes, emotions and circumstances that prompt anybody to make one choice or another in a matter that will have such profound repercussions in more than one life unless we can actually walk in their shoes. And since none of us can say we truly know the inner workings of Joni's heart and mind in the present day, let alone 40 years ago, there is really no way for us to know what exactly prompted her to make the choices she did. I don't recall hearing any input from Kilauren's biological father and maybe at most (memory is not accurate on this) a nasty statement or two from Chuck Mitchell about the whole situation. So we pretty much have only Joni's version of events to rely on. I'm not going to rush to defend the validity of the sound bite 'Joni Mitchell never lies' as I think it was meant as a tribute to the honesty of her music and not meant to be taken literally. But I do think Joni has given us the story as accurately as her memory and emotions will allow. There are at least two of Joni's song lyrics that indicate that her mother was the chief moral authority in the Anderson family. In 'Let the Wind Carry Me', Mama believes in cleaning, teaches Joni the deeper meaning and thinks she spoilt her rotten. And in 'Face Lift' Joni implies that Myrtle is still judging her daughter and finding her morally lacking even in Joni's middle age. I find it interesting in the Wells Fargo Theatre broadcast from 1995 (was that really 10 years ago??!) that Joni introduces 'Face Lift' after she thinks the radio broadcast is over by saying something like 'Well my mother's 80 years old but she still has a strong...oh, we're still on the air!' and then she never finishes what she was going to say about Myrtle. Is she still fearful of Myrtle's judgement or of hurting her feelings? If that is indeed the case, think how much more fearful she must have been in 1965 when she found out she was pregnant. I can see how she might have felt unable to tell her parents. Maybe disappearing to stay with Aunt Lulabelle in Medicine Hat and coming back with a new 'baby sister' was out of the question. Maybe she didn't want to burden her middle-aged parents with having to raise another child. Whether Joni was in Toronto or not, Myrtle and Bill were still back in Saskatoon and the judgement would have fallen just as much on them as on Joni. Everyone is different and obviously Joni felt she was unable to handle the incredible pressure and difficulty of being a single mother. She did try the marriage route but the man she chose was not the baby's father and ultimately copped out on her. Maybe she felt the only responsible thing she could do for her baby in the end was to give it up. Surely an agonizing decision that she must have felt was forced on her, making it feel like her baby was 'taken' from her. I don't get the idea that Joni had great ambitions for becoming a famous singer or songwriter at the time she got pregnant. A record deal and stardom wouldn't come for another 3 years. In 1965 she hardly had a nickel to her name and a tentative foothold in the coffee house circuit. I just don't believe that it was ambition that prompted her to give up that baby. Whether she could have taken another path or not, I believe Joni genuinely felt that her back was against the wall and that to 'sign all the papers in the family name' was the only option available to her. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:16:40 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Anybody watch the Grammy Awards? What's up with giving Mavis Staples only 20 seconds on the occasion of her family's Lifetime Achievement? All they had to do was give the Staple Singers a 60 second presentation about Pops Staples' contribution to the Civil Rights Movement. Ya know: "Pops helped to open the door with a non-violent message." That would have sent a quick message of diversity, dignity and non-violence to the US in general (and the gansta-rap segment of CD buyers in particular). The recording industry would have looked a bit more sophisticated and smart too, for a change! They found time to educate us about copyrights (which I absolutely support of course) but a platinum-coated, once-in-a-decade, opportunity was lost. I'd rather not hear them mention Tim McGraw every 15 minutes for 3 hours, ya know? Is he the only country artist now? How exactly do you buy those product placements? And wasn't it weird when they read (from the podium) that Led Zeppelin were recognized for their Lifetime Achievement? The surviving players were in the audience, in LA. They put them on TV for 0.6667 seconds. Then, they were gone. No acceptance speech? No song from Led-fricken-Zepplin?! I'm just saying... Lama >I thought two were phenomenal - Alicia Keyes and Jamie Fox (They should do an album together)- and that Southern Rock salute with Skynard, Allman Brothers, Keith Urban, Elvin Bishop, etc. . . . That was f*****g incredible, especially for a Louisiana boy who grew up in the 70's!! AMAZING, the whole group!!> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:24:42 -0500 From: eaddy sutton Subject: Re: joni party On Feb 15, 2005, at 10:46 PM, Lori Fye wrote: >> I am thinking about hosting another Joni party and would like to get >> some new ideas. All you have to do is ask "Joni Mitchell?" and a >> fourth of the people in any room will start to babble and swoon, and >> you know it's time for a party. > > A fourth of the people will start to babble and swoon? Where are you > that you're so lucky to be surrounded by these people?? I wanna be > there too! > > Lori I work at a private school in Vermont and I almost always get some response when I toss out a reference to Joni. A workshop weekend with colleagues took on a "hexagram of the heavens" theme -- we were seeing them everywhere and wondering just what in the heck that false alarm was, for two whole days. (I still don't know what it is. . . good topic for the party, or the list, perhaps.) I was in the office the other day, preparing for class, when I came across the lines in Shakespeare's Caesar "I am as constant as the northern star . . . ." I was so psyched that I called out to the group of parents, staff and teachers "Joni? You know Joni? Listen to this!" They did the babble and swoon, and we all got into A Case of You and the literary reference. (I would love to get into that convo here on the list, but alas, no one seemed interested when I tossed it out. Did Joni read the classics? Are there other lines or images from Shakespeare, et. al.?) Perhaps the teaching profession is full of those sensitive, brooding types who love the depths of poetry, and therefore Joni . . . . It is definitely time for a party -- and perhaps someday a full-blown fest, hosted by the masters. Eaddy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:35:37 -0700 From: Kate Subject: choice > Jerry Notaro wrote: > >> I am going to stray from what may be the majority voice, but it was clearly >> Joni's choice. It's probably perfectly fair to say that we ALWAYS have a choice. Which is not the same as actually BELIEVING or BEING AWARE or UNDERSTANDING that we have a choice. I've had abortions. Of course I had a choice whether or not to have them. But at the time, it didn't feel like I had a choice. So I can certainly understand Joni not feeling she had a choice when it came to giving up her child for adoption. (hm ... adopt child out to where it will have a comfortable, safe, two-parent home, or keep child where it is not best looked after, has one parent, etc ... at that time, that might not have been considered much of a choice if one really cared about the child and was thinking about the child's welfare more than one's own need of the child). I wouldn't say she is lying about it. I'd say that is what feels true to her. Kate du N - -- Mystery Solved http://xoetc.antville.org Who does she think she is, Anaos Nin? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:34:12 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Anybody watch the Grammy Awards? This is why I don't watch the Grammys anymore. It doesn't have f*ck-all to do with real music, real artists. Real musical culture has gone way underground--and not just for old farts like me. My 24-year-old son wouldn't be caught dead watching the Grammys. ON the corporate exploitation front-- which gives this JC--I won't be near a Starbucks anytime soon, but I am curious about those CDs--hope they get their corporate a** together and put them on their web page! That's "act." - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 8:17 PM To: joni@smoe.org Cc: jdhenderson@nyc.rr.com Subject: Anybody watch the Grammy Awards? What's up with giving Mavis Staples only 20 seconds on the occasion of her family's Lifetime Achievement? All they had to do was give the Staple Singers a 60 second presentation about Pops Staples' contribution to the Civil Rights Movement. Ya know: "Pops helped to open the door with a non-violent message." That would have sent a quick message of diversity, dignity and non-violence to the US in general (and the gansta-rap segment of CD buyers in particular). The recording industry would have looked a bit more sophisticated and smart too, for a change! They found time to educate us about copyrights (which I absolutely support of course) but a platinum-coated, once-in-a-decade, opportunity was lost. I'd rather not hear them mention Tim McGraw every 15 minutes for 3 hours, ya know? Is he the only country artist now? How exactly do you buy those product placements? And wasn't it weird when they read (from the podium) that Led Zeppelin were recognized for their Lifetime Achievement? The surviving players were in the audience, in LA. They put them on TV for 0.6667 seconds. Then, they were gone. No acceptance speech? No song from Led-fricken-Zepplin?! I'm just saying... Lama >I thought two were phenomenal - Alicia Keyes and Jamie Fox (They should do an album together)- and that Southern Rock salute with Skynard, Allman Brothers, Keith Urban, Elvin Bishop, etc. . . . That was f*****g incredible, especially for a Louisiana boy who grew up in the 70's!! AMAZING, the whole group!!> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:38:21 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Joni video with Toller Cranston Jane, Good question. I'm not a fan of ice skating but I appreciate the soundtrack. :) It seems logical that a Joni Mitchell video with ice-skating would be "River" but Cranston's in the video of "Hejira". You can buy it right now, in a DVD called "Joni Mitchell: Shadows and Light". I know it's available in the US, Canada, and Hong Kong. Maybe other regions too. I apologize if you've received more than one response to this question. All the best, Lama > joni mitchell once did a video of "River" with Toller > Cranston ice skating. Do any copies of this video exist, and > do you have any idea where I could buy/borrow one? Thank you. > > Jane A. Petyk > JanePetyk@comcast.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 01:37:10 +0000 From: colin Subject: test - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:54:28 -0500 From: eaddy sutton Subject: fresh air, little green Brad wrote; Personally, I find Joni's 'feet of clay' very humanizing. As to the issue at hand, "Little Green" does have some rather self-serving lyrics, but she speaks too of lying to her parents and yet says she's not ashamed. There was obviously some conflict there. ******** So you sign all the papers, in the family name you're sad and you're sorry, but you're not ashamed Little green, have a happy ending I've always felt that this is all I need to know about the situation -- unthruths, nonsense or no. But then the WOHAM dvd makes this the central angst in her creative life; the betrayal, the grief, but the freedom. . . . Since that dvd, the weeping and bawling along with the song is almost too much to bear. Eaddy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 01:57:46 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: choice Kate wrote: >> > >It's probably perfectly fair to say that we ALWAYS have a choice. Which is >not the same as actually BELIEVING or BEING AWARE or UNDERSTANDING that we >have a choice. > > > This is so true. We can only make choices when we know what the choices are. And we probably will never know ALL the choices avaliable. One very good reason why we need to educate ourselves and think ouside the box. Our lives are the result of choice. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:47:02 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: "Joni Mitchell: Artist's Choice", short Whoa, I'm glad to have this disc. There's a LOT of Joni in this little gem. Joni made some very savvy, non-commercial choices (duh). Like she chose "Third World Man" to represent Steely Dan. This is at least as cool as that "My Top 10" show she did in the UK. I didn't recognize the track from Miles Davis but it's from the widely respected "Cookin'" set. I take that as sterling shopping advice. First David Lahm recommended it, now Joni. (!) This disc is almost an alfresco record party in Bel Air. More soon, Lama BTW, Amy, the brilliant, outside-the-box, self-assured, slightly kinky strategist is back on 'The West Wing'. I wish they'd make that character (by Mary Louise Parker) permanent. I wonder if she'd consult with me on my birthday... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 23:03:07 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Fresh Air interview --- Jerry Notaro wrote: > > > > > Ok, some women did raise their children as single > > mothers, but how many of those women came from a > rural > > area? > > But she was in Toronto by then, one of the most > liberal areas of North > America. The very reason she moved from the Prairie > Culture was to escape > it. All of her songs and interviews reflect her > desire to reject those > morals and escape the ideal of what her mother and > culture expected from > her. She paints herself as The Rebel Without a > Cause. Even in the Prairies, > Canada reflected a much more liberal way of life, > with free health care for > all, and a haven for American War resisters. > > Jerry Jerry, I'm afraid I must disagree with that statement. Toronto was called "Toronto the Good" for a long time, and for good reason. It was still predominantly run under stern Protestant rules and mores, despite waves of immigration from other cultures that would ultimately break a lot of that down, and despite the hippies and all the other revolutions going on. And I don't think you should underestimate the pull of strong family beliefs and the often irrational fears that arise from them. I believe that, more than anything else, it was the fear of upsetting and offending her parents that was the greatest factor in Joni's hiding her pregnancy from them, and ultimately giving her child up for adoption. She may have been a rebel in her own eyes and done a lot of things that went against her parents' wishes, but getting preggers out of wedlock just was going way too far. I believe that the reason "The Magdalene Laundries" is such a powerful song is that Joni poured a lot of herself into it. She really empathized with the young women who were subjected to what was imprisonment without trial, sometimes for life, for anything from being too flirtatious to being raped to having a child without being married, even if that child was a product of rape. Furthermore, when you've got a bunch of people conspiring against you, with good intentions or not, to talk you into giving up your child because it's just better that way, and not one to stand with you and give you any reason to believe that you can really do this on your own, or to offer you any support, moral, financial or otherwise, then I think you make decisions under duress and that, to me, is tantamount to the child being taken. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 23:07:13 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Fresh Air interview --- Doug wrote: > Maybe I used too strong a word. I was originally > going to say "nonsense" > but it didn't seem to express my true feelings. > So, in deference to those who might have been > offended, I'll revert to > the original... NONSENSE IT IS!! > > Doug > > Seriously, I would be embarrassed to be associated > with such a maudlin, > and obviously false statement. > Well, ya gotta look at the source, eh? Janet Freakin' Jackson? Gimme a break. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:37:37 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: State of the List now JC Welcome Home BABY!!! It's good to see you posting again. When you coming to visit and have a mini fest??? Jazz Fest is coming.. You knew I would still be here huh??? Love Paz > Thanks Sherelle,You are very kind. > > And yes, this list has gone through some major changes over the years. > My very first post wasn't exactly universally accepted to say the least > . I was on a quest (driven by a personal coach) to live out a long time > fantasy of mine, meet Joni Mitchell in the flesh. Who was to know that > fantasy would come true, not only once, but 3 times over the next few > years! And the timing was perfect also. Who would expect she would > tour again after so many years. I got to experience it with you guys, > in incredible detail, with video and audio! I have so many special > friends, recordings and experiences from this list...how could I not > come back eventually? > > I'm particularly glad to see no flame wars in progress. Although I > understand a few longtime folks have left because of them. That's a > bummer. Hopefully they'll be back too. > > For now, unfortunately, the chance of Joni putting out any new > material, much less tour again, is quite slim. That is very difficult > for me. I just can't find any other artist that moves me like she does, > try as I may. Jonatha comes in second, but not a close one. I'm open > to suggestions, but hard to please. When you have such a high standard, > well, you guys understand better than anyone..... > > Phyliss > > > Sherelle Smith wrote: > >> Wow! Phyliss????? Oh my gosh!!!! My eyes can hardly believe it!!! >> Welcome, welcome back! My mind is going back to a place where all >> things were Joni and we posted hoping against hope that she would read >> our posts be touched beyond words and decide to perform again. >> Memories of attending her concerts in the 70's and 80's were shared >> with those of us who had never (and still have never) attended one of >> her concerts. It was all we had at the time. Phyliss, it is so good to >> see you one the list!!!! >> >> Sherelle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 23:37:35 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: RE: Anybody watch the Grammy Awards? I wondered if anyone else thought this was an outrageous slight. Led Zeppelin is one of the most influential bands in the history of rock, and they were given the fleeting recognition of a one-hit wonder on the Grammys. What were they thinking? I think that anyone living in the 70's - even if they were not Zep fans - would recognize them as one of the majors. And is there any rock fan that doesn't like something by Led Zeppelin . . . Houses of the Holy . . . Stairway to Heaven . . . Dyer Maker (sp?) . . . I always wanted Zeppelin to cover The Banquet because that song craves a wailing hot treatment. Or Smashing Pumpkins. Think about it. And yet, the Grammy folk did allow us at least three full minutes to listen to JLo sing a number way out of her more-than-ever-limited reach. Go figure. And while I'm ranting, I think some young people like Kanye West need to learn the difference between a respectful salute to the ones who first traveled your road (Mavis Staples, the blind Alabama guys) and a gratuitous stab at political correctness. I think I'll be able to sleep now. ;) David >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu [mailto:jlamadoo@fuse.net] >>>Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 8:17 PM >>>To: joni@smoe.org >>>Cc: jdhenderson@nyc.rr.com >>>Subject: Anybody watch the Grammy Awards? >>> >>> >>>What's up with giving Mavis Staples only 20 seconds on the >>>occasion of her >>>family's Lifetime Achievement? All they had to do was give the Staple >>>Singers a 60 second presentation about Pops Staples' contribution to the >>>Civil Rights Movement. Ya know: "Pops helped to open the door with a >>>non-violent message." That would have sent a quick message of diversity, >>>dignity and non-violence to the US in general (and the >>>gansta-rap segment of >>>CD buyers in particular). The recording industry would have looked a bit >>>more sophisticated and smart too, for a change! >>> >>>They found time to educate us about copyrights (which I >>>absolutely support >>>of course) but a platinum-coated, once-in-a-decade, opportunity was lost. >>> >>>I'd rather not hear them mention Tim McGraw every 15 minutes for >>>3 hours, ya >>>know? Is he the only country artist now? How exactly do you buy those >>>product placements? >>> >>>And wasn't it weird when they read (from the podium) that Led >>>Zeppelin were >>>recognized for their Lifetime Achievement? The surviving players were in >>>the audience, in LA. They put them on TV for 0.6667 seconds. Then, they >>>were gone. No acceptance speech? No song from Led-fricken-Zepplin?! >>> >>>I'm just saying... >>>Lama >>> >>> >>>>I thought two were phenomenal - Alicia Keyes and Jamie Fox (They >>>should do an album together)- and that Southern Rock salute with Skynard, >>>Allman Brothers, Keith Urban, Elvin Bishop, etc. . . . That was f*****g >>>incredible, especially for a Louisiana boy who grew up in the 70's!! >>>AMAZING, the whole group!!> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:38:13 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Starbucks CD I went this morn to get a bagel and get a cd but they are not in yet in Harahan by my office. Paz > Just heard the Starbucks CD is available. This from me sis > in TX. > >> I got the CD - haven't had a chance to listen to it but >> Duke Ellington is on there twice, Billie Holliday, Chuck >> Berry, Steel Dan. ... Also I bought a CD that is Joni >> tracks picked by her friends. So David Crosby picked For >> Free and there are others - like Robbie Robertson and >> Donald Fagan.< > > Sounds like there are two CDs!! > > WtS > NP - There Is A Light That Never Goes Out, Joseph Arthur ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:45:22 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Anybody watch the Grammy Awards? Good fecking point! But I don't think Plant was there. I did see Jimmy and John Paul Jones. That would have been da bomb! Paz > > And wasn't it weird when they read (from the podium) that Led Zeppelin were > recognized for their Lifetime Achievement? The surviving players were in > the audience, in LA. They put them on TV for 0.6667 seconds. Then, they > were gone. No acceptance speech? No song from Led-fricken-Zepplin?! > > I'm just saying... > Lama ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:54:49 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: "Joni Mitchell: Artist's Choice", short The Artists Choice CDs are also available on the Starbucks website (mostly, that is, a couple of them seem to be unavailable)-- Joni's has not been added to their webpage yet, though. The page to check: http://www.starbucks.com/hearmusic/index.asp?category%5Fname=Artists+Choice They only ship orders to the United States and Canada, excluding Quebec, Puerto Rico and Guam. Hey! Whatta they got against Quebec? See what Sheryl Crow's artist choice contains: http://www.starbucks.com/hearmusic/product.asp?category%5Fname=Artists+Choice&product%5Fid=6211162546&artist=Sheryl+Crow "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: > Whoa, I'm glad to have this disc. There's a LOT of Joni in this little gem. > Joni made some very savvy, non-commercial choices (duh). Like she chose > "Third World Man" to represent Steely Dan. This is at least as cool as that > "My Top 10" show she did in the UK. > > I didn't recognize the track from Miles Davis but it's from the widely > respected "Cookin'" set. I take that as sterling shopping advice. First > David Lahm recommended it, now Joni. (!) > > This disc is almost > an alfresco record party > in Bel Air. > > More soon, > Lama > > BTW, Amy, the brilliant, outside-the-box, self-assured, slightly kinky > strategist is back on 'The West Wing'. I wish they'd make that character > (by Mary Louise Parker) permanent. I wonder if she'd consult with me on my > birthday... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 23:27:13 -0600 From: "Music Is Special" Subject: Re: Fresh Air interview interesting comments by one and all on this. i certainly not going to be judgemental about it. It just really stood out when I was listening to the interview and like others I am always looking for clues to this most interesting person ............... :-)) thanks to whoever recorded it (some "front range" location according to the station ID) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 00:40:57 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: Fresh Air Interview - More Subject: Re: Fresh Air interview Who knows what more was happening in Joni's life back then, more that we know little or nothing about? Perhaps indeed the child was "taken," I don't know. But apparently it seemed that way to Joni at the time. Most people though, as years go by, realize the part they played in their own victimhood, in most situations, and develop a more balanced and less self-centered point of view. Again I don't know what really happened in 1965 but I do know that Joni seems to take the victim position in a number of contexts, business, personal, whatever. That seems kind of sad to me. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 01:04:24 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: RE: Anybody watch the Grammy Awards? Maybe skipping Zep was a patriotic thing on the part of the organizers. You know: we'll slight the Brits but make some time for a big ole', happy salute to "Southern Rock". Yeee-haw! I like Lynard Skynard's music and all but when I saw Skynard in 74 or so, they used a huge "rebel" flag as a backdrop. I don't think it was used at the Grammy Awards. (For JMDLers outside the US, I'll say this: The confederate army, which was fighting basically to preserve slavery, flew what we now call "the rebel flag". It's occasionally seen as a bumpersticker and to many people it simply means "regional pride".) I know the confederate flag when I see it. It doesn't represent my vision of the US; "Amerika, the ugly" is closer. To me, that flag rightfully carries a negative connotation. How could it be otherwise? A Nazi flag will never mean simply "regional pride". It's probably just 30 year old baggage on my part but that memory of the confederate flag is another reason I didn't feel comfortable with glossing over the Staple Singers. If you give several loooong minutes to "Free Bird", you better come across with some "equal time". Sheeeeee. The world's 2nd most opinionated man, Lama From: Michael Paz [mailto:michael@thepazgroup.com] Good fecking point! But I don't think Plant was there. I did see Jimmy and John Paul Jones. That would have been da bomb! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 00:34:13 -0600 From: "mackoliver" Subject: Re: Anybody watch the Grammy Awards? > (For JMDLers outside the US, I'll say this: The confederate army, which was > fighting basically to preserve slavery, Definitely a Yankee viewpoint. Slavery was wrong. But they were fighting because they didn't want the North telling them how to run their business. And regardless, a lot of young men lost their lives in that war. I love that flag but hate the slavery. mack ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 02:29:17 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Anybody watch the Grammy Awards? lama writes: > Maybe skipping Zep was a patriotic thing on the part of the organizers. > You > know: we'll slight the Brits but make some time for a big ole', happy salute > to "Southern Rock". Yeee-haw! > THANK YOU, JIM! I can't endure it any longer...I hate that feckin' song ("Sweet Home Alabama") and every time I hear it I have to resist the urge to hurl. I've always seen it as a segregationist anthem and a diss of the good intentions of Neil Young. Does no one listen to lyrics at all anymore? I thought it was the height of ignorance when Ruben Studdard, a black man, started singing it on "American Idol" and on tour...with a gospel choir!!! What an imbecile! And what the frick was Elvin Bishop doing up there? He's a BLUES ROCKER from Northern California!! I wish that plane had never crashed, then Skynard'd probably only exist as an Allman Brothers cover band. End of Rant. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 02:48:14 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Anybody watch the Grammy Awards? > I love > that flag but hate the slavery. > > mack > That's like a German saying: "I love that swastika, but I hate the genocide." - -Julius ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2005 #50 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)