From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2005 #24 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, January 25 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 024 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Peeling back another layer? ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Subject: Jonifest ["mike pritchard" ] Re: Peeling back another layer? [Catherine McKay ] Vote Mingus ["Laurent Olszer" ] NEVERMIND WHAT IT MEANS TO ME [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: my joni Mitchell tribute record [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Vote Mingus! [Jerry Notaro ] "The Capitol Steps" include Joni-content in their act [Brian Gross ] Re: JMDL Digest V2005 #31 [Garret ] Re: LISTENING TO OUR OWN MUSIC [Em ] Re: JMDL Digest V2005 #31 ["mackoliver" ] Re: Joni on Time December, 1974 [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni on Time December, 1974 [Smurf ] Re: Peeling back another layer? ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: John Kelly sings Joni [Jerry Notaro ] Re: John Gorka ["McMillan Brad" ] Re: my joni mitchell tribute record [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: John Gorka [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: John Gorka [Jerry Notaro ] Re: John Gorka [Smurf ] Albums that grew on you [Deb Messling ] Re: Peeling back another layer? ["Mark or Travis" ] Jonifest ["Laurent Olszer" ] RE: JMDL Digest V2005 #31 ["David Henderson" ] Re: my joni mitchell tribute record [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Albums that grew on you [KJHSF@aol.com] JOTMAS on Travelogue [Em ] Re: Peeling back another layer? ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Peeling back another layer? [Catherine McKay ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 03:05:55 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Peeling back another layer? I admit I sometimes get carried away with these "connections", especially after 10PM. Anyway, I think maybe another reference revealed itself tonight. In the song "For The Roses", Our Lady of Duality said, >They toss around your latest golden egg.> >Speculation, well who's to know> >If the next one in the nest> >Will glitter for them so?> Released October 1972 Obviously the metaphor is bird/creation but where did this metaphor come from? I found my answer tonight in a recording I've heard dozens of times. (It's "my" answer. I'm not saying it is THE answer.) Has everyone read Wally Breese's interview with Joellen who made Joni's dulcimer? http://www.jonimitchell.com/Lapidus97.html From the interview, it looks like she made 3 dulcimers for Joni over the years and none of the pictures match Joni's description on the BBC TV show, broadcast first on Dec. 20th, 1970. This is the famous appearance with James Taylor that was uhh, "widely circulated". On the BBC, Joni nearly quotes the lines (above) from "For The Roses" which would be released more than a year later. Talking about fans of Joellen's handiwork, Joni said, "This is the twelfth one she's built and everybody's always waiting for the NEXT one that she's does, ya know?" I have noticed that similarity before. The idea of "fans' expectation" came from Joni being a fan of Joellen's creativity. The newly discovered bit is that the bird metaphor also came from Joellen. More specifically, Joellen put birds on Joni's dulcimer! Joni, being a genius, might have studied the birds on the dulcimer while thinking about expectations on Joellen's work, then wrote, >They toss around your latest golden egg> >Speculation well who's to know> >If the next one in the nest> >Will glitter for them so> I know it's a small thing but in the BBC show, Joni described the birds on the dulcimer: BTW, Here's some text and a picture of Purpleheart: http://tropicalhardwoods.com/htm/tropical_hardwoods/purpleheart.htm Here's a picture of Cocobolo, the ripply, orange wood: http://tropicalhardwoods.com/htm/tropical_hardwoods/cocobolo.htm Is this a "good catch" or a late-night exaggeration? Lama ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:06:43 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Subject: Jonifest >>Small details for a google search: the area is the "Corbieres", also the state (french departement) is "Aude"... The site isn't exactly in Carcassonne, that's just one of the nearest airports along with Perpignan.<< I don't know how the brits and irish are planning to come to JoniFrance but I would add that Ryan Air fly to Girona / Gerona and also to Reus, which are both an hour from Barcelona. I would be happy to show anyone around Barcelona and if we get the right crowd together I would be prepared to hire a car to go to Corbieres and back to Barcelona (or Girona airport) if costs were shared between passengers. Best case scenario: Chris, Garret, Lucy, or whoever (for example) fly to Girona or Barcelona and spend a couple of days on the razz with me. I hire a car to get 4 or 5 of us to Corbieres and then park the car until it's time to go home. I drive the others back to barcelona or girona. It's probably (I'd have to check) cheaper doing it this way than going by train. How does that sound? mike in bcn NP Jazz Police - LC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 07:36:38 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Peeling back another layer? --- "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: > I admit I sometimes get carried away with these > "connections", especially > after 10PM. Anyway, > I think maybe another reference revealed itself > tonight. In the song "For > The Roses", Our Lady of Duality said, > > >They toss around your latest golden egg.> > >Speculation, well who's to know> > >If the next one in the nest> > >Will glitter for them so?> > > Released October 1972 > > Obviously the metaphor is bird/creation but where > did this metaphor come > from? I found my answer tonight in a recording I've > heard dozens of times. > (It's "my" answer. I'm not saying it is THE > answer.) > > Has everyone read Wally Breese's interview with > Joellen who made Joni's > dulcimer? > http://www.jonimitchell.com/Lapidus97.html > Have you heard about the goose that laid the golden egg? That's what she's talking about. Will the next egg be golden, or will it just be... and egg? Will the next song you write be a hit and make lots of money for the record company, or will it be a dud? ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 13:53:11 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Vote Mingus > Nevertheless, I still think it took me a year or so of listening before > I really learned to love Mingus but by that time I had discovered that I > didn't like ANY of Joni's albums on first hearing (with one exception*). > *Court & Spark was the exception to the rule - it grabbed me on first > hearing... and I remain slightly suspicious of it for that reason to > this day! I love it, but I worry that it is a superficial love affair based on pure sex appeal rather a deep spiritual connection between us... but, as I have gotten older, I have come to value pure sex appeal more highly than I did as a romantically-inclined teenager! > Did anyone else find that the Joni albums they liked least on first > hearing are the ones they grew to love the most? > > Regards > John > Southport, UK > Hi John This has always been the case for me, for Joni, for particular songs within an album, and for most other artists as well. I suppose it has to do with accessibility, both in music, in sex and for almost everything else. The more accessible something or someone is, the less interest there is in the long term. In the "land of short attention spam" we need real music and real people to keep us "hanging on." Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 04:58:05 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: NEVERMIND WHAT IT MEANS TO ME NEVERMIND? THE NIRVANA ALBUM, THAT IS? (... nuriel Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 08:34:47 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: my joni Mitchell tribute record Welcome to the inner sanctum (anyone who posts to the JMDL), Zach. I went to your site to explore (It's the librarian in me). You are wise beyond your young years. I listened to Top of the World and loved it. Is that you on the piano? Your set lists are stellar, and since one of your songs is Florida, I hope you make it this way when you return to the States. Your recording plan is smart. Always do the original stuff, then the covers (Hey Shawn!) Just know that your Joni album will be for you and us. We will buy it, we will help you promote it, but it won't advance your career, if that is what you are looking for. Jerry > Hi All, > > My name is Zach. I don't post all that often, but > love reading the posts daily. I have posted before, > but not frequently. I wanted to post an idea I had and > see if I got any feedback from list members about it. > This is my attempt at breaking out of lurkdom, really, > to be an active member of the group (I've been waiting > for an excuse). I put out a CD last year called > "Moment of Clarity" that included a Joni cover--I > became one of very, very many who've put out a cover > of "A Case of You"--and some of you may have heard it > as the ever so wonderful, kind and gracious Bob Muller > put it on one of the fantastic cover volumes recently, > which was an honor to be included on. I'm currently > living and studying in London and am nearing the > halfway point of this three month experiment across > the pond (and how wonderful it is over here, too!) so > I'm not sure how my finances are going to hold out (if > anyone knows a good producer or manager, PLEASE be in > touch) but I'm hoping to put out my second > mostly-if-not-all-this-time originals cd by the end of > the year. The idea that I've had for after that, > though, would be that my third cd would be a Joni > tribute record. I'd like to do this within two or > three years with the hope that Joni herself may even > somehow hear it. I'm still in college, so again the > financing of it will certainly be a massive obstacle > to overcome, but I'm hopeful that somehow the stars > will align and I'm able to do it. My questions are: > how would you all respond to something like that? is > it a cool idea or not? i'm limiting my audience > somewhat as not everyone in the world is enlightened > enough to consider Joni the genious that she quite > frankly undeniably is, but I think there is AN > audience for a record like this. If you had to put > together a maximum time 80 minute cd of Joni covers, > how in the world would one go about choosing which > songs to include? I'm one of the people who loved > every phase and genre that Joni involved herself in, > so it's not like I'd be limiting myself to one > specific era of her writing: I'd have all of it to go > through and figure out. A daunting challenge to say > the least. Anyways, just wanted to throw this idea out > there as I never know what kind of response I'll get. > If you're interested in checking out my homepage to > find out more about the first album, go to: > http://www.geocities.com/zacharyscot/ > I don't think there's an mp3 of ACOY up, but I believe > there is a link to a cover of a brilliant Patty > Griffin song called 'Top of the World' that'll give > at least a little indication of my style. Anyways, > thanks for reading. I'd love feedback and responses. I > love reading all of your posts, so thought I might > contribute something for once. Best to you all. > > Sincerely, > Zach > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 08:37:47 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Vote Mingus! > Did anyone else find that the Joni albums they liked least on first > hearing are the ones they grew to love the most? > Absolutely: DJRD Hissing Hejira But Mingus? Never! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 07:59:53 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: "The Capitol Steps" include Joni-content in their act "The Capitol Steps brought barbed and irreverent humor to the Clay Center on Saturday for a merry evening of political satire. Five members of the troupe  the norm on tour  and a pianist sped through 80 minutes of fast-paced wig and costume changes as they impersonated and poked fun at the rich and foolish. You know what I said from the beginning, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said as he shared the stage with President Bush. You go to war with the president you have, not with the president you wish you had. Bush and Rumsfeld launched into a reworked Wizard of Oz standard, If I Only Had A Plan: And although Iraq is rotten, it would quickly be forgotten, if we went into Iran, they sang. Then they transformed Help Me Rhonda into Help Rwanda, that would be a good place to start. Help Granola, sang Bush. He means Angola, corrected Rumsfeld. But if Bush looked silly and goofy, John Kerry, his recent rival in the presidential election, seemed stiff, right down to the kneeless arm-swinging way he strode onstage. Kerry, so bright and nuanced, reworked the Joni Mitchell classic into Ive Taken A Stand On Both Sides Now. " (end of Joni content) see the entire article at: http://www.wvgazette.com/section/News/Reviews/2005012321 And Ruth, the pictures you forwarded were quite disturbing, and moving. Thank you for that link. Brian, in snowy (about a foot deep) south jersey np: Radio Times on NPR ===== Don't it always seem to go That you don't know what you've got till it's gone --Roberta Joan Anderson, who never lies __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? http://my.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 08:01:48 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Joni on Time December, 1974 http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,1101741216,00.html Heaven knows I loved her 30 years ago. - --Smurf, enjoying a SNOW DAY! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 15:55:00 +0000 From: Garret Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2005 #31 Did anyone else find that the Joni albums they liked least on first hearing are the ones they grew to love the most? Quoting John Sprackland : > > Did anyone else find that the Joni albums they liked least on first > hearing are the ones they grew to love the most? > I had trouble with FTR at first, and had almost given up when Kakki posted some very persausive thoughts to the list so i gave it another chance and it turned around completely. Now there are times when it's my favourite Joni album. TI i had for well over a year before i got it. This was the first time i heard Joni's older voice and i thought there were was something lacking energywise. Now i jsut can't understand how i thought that and TI grows better with every listen. The song TI itself is superb, truly great. And Mingus, well, mingus and i have a strange relationship. We love each other then we just can't be beside each other at all. Except dry cleaner which is my favoured joni track at the moment. my two cents GARRET - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 08:46:16 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: LISTENING TO OUR OWN MUSIC Hi Nuri, wasn't me who wrote it. There exists one tape in this world, of me singing and playing, from about 1979, and interestingly enough "NITC" is on it, lol!!!!! But I could never EVER listen to it. I have been known to crawl under a table or leave the building to avoid hearing it!!!!!!! arghhhhhhhhh!!!!! and my ex used to take great pleasure in playing it for people... ayayayayyyy, the mortification.... But I do look at my own paintings. Alot, even. :) Em - --- Nuriel Tobias wrote: > HI > > NOW I DO NOT REMEMBER WHO WROTE IT (CATHERINE, MAYBE EM) - THAT A > MUSICIAN LISTENING CONSTANTLY TO HIS MUSIC IS WEIRD, BUT IT WAS > WRITTEN:) > ANYWAY, MY POINT, IS THAT IT'S NOT WEIRD AT ALL. I DO IT. > > LOVE U OL' > > NURI > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:51:54 -0600 From: "mackoliver" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2005 #31 Interesting thread. FTR- Loved it immediately and that feeling grows with each listen. C and S- Much the same. Blue- Much the same. DED-Took 2 or 3 listens and fell in love with this one. TTT- Almost love at first listen. Hejira- Didn't like it much but after many listens did grow to love 3 tunes. Hate the rest of it and nothing but laborious to force myself to listen to it. CMIAR- Hoped for greatness and so excited when it arrived. Subsequent listens didn't change anything and do nothing but line the garbage can could it do. Keep it out of respect for Joan but just awful, in my opinion. TI- Not too fond of it at first but grew and grew on me and now find it very, very good, if not her best. Clouds- Rather generic but great in some places. Strictly music that is played when not thinking. NRH- Same as above, generally. mack NP- Hall and Oates-Change of Season - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garret" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 9:55 AM Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2005 #31 > Did anyone else find that the Joni albums they liked least on first > hearing are the ones they grew to love the most? > > > > Quoting John Sprackland : > > > > > Did anyone else find that the Joni albums they liked least on first > > hearing are the ones they grew to love the most? > > > > I had trouble with FTR at first, and had almost given up when Kakki posted some > very persausive thoughts to the list so i gave it another chance and it turned > around completely. Now there are times when it's my favourite Joni album. > > TI i had for well over a year before i got it. This was the first time i heard > Joni's older voice and i thought there were was something lacking energywise. > Now i jsut can't understand how i thought that and TI grows better with every > listen. The song TI itself is superb, truly great. > > And Mingus, well, mingus and i have a strange relationship. We love each other > then we just can't be beside each other at all. Except dry cleaner which is my > favoured joni track at the moment. > > my two cents > GARRET > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 12:32:37 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni on Time December, 1974 --- Smurf wrote: > http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,1101741216,00.html > > Heaven knows I loved her 30 years ago. > > --Smurf, enjoying a SNOW DAY! > If that isn't 70s artwork, then I don't know what it. ... NOT enjoying a snow day - I prefer a no-snow day - but dammit, it's snowing AGAIN. Enough, already! However, I am enjoying a not-really-sick-but-didn't-want-to-go-to-work day. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 09:45:40 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: Joni on Time December, 1974 Can't you just see some 70s TIme editor, most likely smoking a cigarette, saying, "I want somebody hip, somebody *now* to illustrate this cover with that jazzy hippie Joni chick. You know, someone like Peter Max." What struck me before the artwork itself was the colors! Talk about 70s. - --Smurf, who actually remembers the oranges and pinks of the 70s better than the greys and beiges of the 90s - --- Catherine McKay wrote: > --- Smurf wrote: > > > http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,1101741216,00.html > > > > Heaven knows I loved her 30 years ago. > > > > --Smurf, enjoying a SNOW DAY! > > > > If that isn't 70s artwork, then I don't know what > it. > > ... NOT enjoying a snow day - I prefer a no-snow day > - > but dammit, it's snowing AGAIN. Enough, already! > > However, I am enjoying a > not-really-sick-but-didn't-want-to-go-to-work day. > > > ===== > Catherine > Toronto > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 13:15:11 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Peeling back another layer? Sure, spoil my fun, Catherine. :) I see your point though. Maybe it's a little of each and I can hold onto my view. Jim Catherine McKay wrote: > <>Have you heard about the goose that laid the golden > egg? That's what she's talking about. Will the next > egg be golden, or will it just be... and egg? Will the > next song you write be a hit and make lots of money > for the record company, or will it be a dud? I muttered something like >>"the next one in the nest">> could be a decendant of the swallows and hawk on Joellen's dulcimer. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:33:03 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: John Kelly sings Joni Jmdler and performance artist John Kelly was on WNYC New York Friday night. "John Kelly sings Joni Mitchell on the radio for the first time when he joins David Garland on Spinning On Air. Accompanied by pianist Zecca Esquivel (who appears as artist Georgia OKeefe in concert), Kelly performs several Joni Mitchell songs, and dicusses what the songs mean to him, as well as his encounters with Mitchell herself. Kelly also shares some of his other vocal projects and talks about his lengthy career at the vanguard of Performance Art." The link to hear the entire show on Real Player can be found at http://www.wnyc.org/shows/spinning/archive.html?month=200501 Having seen John perform twice in NYC, this should be a don't-miss show. Take care everyone, and stay warm, Brian in south jersey np: John Kelly ===== Don't it always seem to go That you don't know what you've got till it's gone --Roberta Joan Anderson, who never lies __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 13:59:42 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: John Kelly sings Joni Thanks, Brian. This is a real treat. John is not only talented, but a genuinely nice person. Jerry > Jmdler and performance artist John Kelly was on WNYC New York Friday night. > > "John Kelly sings Joni Mitchell on the radio for the first time when he joins > David Garland on Spinning On Air. Accompanied by pianist Zecca Esquivel (who > appears as artist Georgia OKeefe in concert), Kelly performs several Joni > Mitchell songs, and dicusses what the songs mean to him, as well as his > encounters with Mitchell herself. Kelly also shares some of his other vocal > projects and talks about his lengthy career at the vanguard of Performance > Art." > > The link to hear the entire show on Real Player can be found at > http://www.wnyc.org/shows/spinning/archive.html?month=200501 > > Having seen John perform twice in NYC, this should be a don't-miss show. > > Take care everyone, and stay warm, > Brian in south jersey > > np: John Kelly > > ===== > Don't it always seem to go > That you don't know what you've got till it's gone > > --Roberta Joan Anderson, who never lies > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 13:53:26 -0500 From: "McMillan Brad" Subject: Re: John Gorka You said: "Julie Andrews. I always thought her voice had a similar timbre and clarity. "Flute-y." And she can no longer sing." I think it was ten or fifteen years ago there was something in the news about Ms. Andrews suffering from some form of throat cancer. They managed to save her life and her ability to speak, but I gather the radiation treatments destroyed her singing voice. We can speculate that Joni's voice would deteriorate without smoking, but I'll bet you a carton of Camels, chain smoking for 45+ years hasn't helped. (Footnote: See Carson, Johnny; McQueen, Steve; Brenner, Yul; Wayne, John; Cooper, Gary) best wishes, brad ( a typical "born again" ex-smoker) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Bennett" To: Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 3:11 AM Subject: re: John Gorka > >I don't sing or write much anymore. My voice has deteriorated even more > than Joni's. I've often wondered about this. I have a theory that Joni's > voice would have changed dramatically, even if she didn't smoke. My voice > was quite like hers. People used to remark on it whenever I sang. But now, > it's just not 'pretty' anymore. Another of my favorite singers (my favorite, > in fact, until I heard Joni) was Julie Andrews. I always thought her voice > had a similar timbre and clarity. "Flute-y." And she can no longer sing. So, > I wonder if there's something about the structure of similar vocal chords > that doesn't fare well over time.< > > has this happened recently anne because I remember you singing beautifully a > few years back... maybe you are right about some kind of vocal chords > deterioriting... however I do think it is rare for anyone's voice to remain > the same quality as when younger & that it would be as frustrating & > impossible to try to remain singing the same way as it would to still fit > into our teenage clothes... a woman's voice is known to lower when she > reaches 30 years old & I suspect that this keeps on changing over the years, > along with everything else about us physically, & so we have to learn to > adjust our singing to fit our ever changing new voice (key, timbre, etc) > just as we do with so many things about ourselves as we age... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 14:36:53 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: my joni mitchell tribute record Hi Zack...thanks for de-lurking. First things first: I love Natalie, too, not in Star Wars, egad, no....but loved her in "The Professional" when she was just a wee lass. But, I digress. On point, a CD of Joni covers by an inspired, soulful musician would always find purchase in the rocky place that is my personal musical terra firma. But that's just me...I'm not like other guys. I will say this: one Joni song done exceptionally well beats a whole CD of covers of her done with mediocrity. Beats it by far, in my ever-so-humble opinion. I looked at your setlists and I'm impressed. I would love to hear you cover "Angel From Montgomery" "Naive Melody" "Harvest Moon" "American Tune" "Only Living Boy..." along with "Conversation" "Blue" and "ACOY"...maybe. That would be unique, and somewhat eclectic, too. I'm reminded of what musician/philosopher Brian Eno once wrote in one of his Oblique Strategies: "Once the search is started, something will be found." Good luck to you on your hejira..by all means, rock on. - -Julius In a message dated 1/23/05 5:44:35 AM, lovenatalie_hatestarwars@yahoo.com writes: > My questions are: > how would you all respond to something like that? is > it a cool idea or not? i'm limiting my audience > somewhat as not everyone in the world is enlightened > enough to consider Joni the genious that she quite > frankly undeniably is, but I think there is AN > audience for a record like this. If you had to put > together a maximum time 80 minute cd of Joni covers, > how in the world would one go about choosing which > songs to include? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 11:44:45 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: John Gorka True Julie Andrew's situation was unusual, but to just clarify...It wasn't cancer. She had nodes or nodules of some sort and underwent a botched throat operation that destroyed her voice. She still does some singing nowadays albeit in a much more limited range. Jenny McMillan Brad wrote: You said: "Julie Andrews. I always thought her voice had a similar timbre and clarity. "Flute-y." And she can no longer sing." I think it was ten or fifteen years ago there was something in the news about Ms. Andrews suffering from some form of throat cancer. They managed to save her life and her ability to speak, but I gather the radiation treatments destroyed her singing voice. We can speculate that Joni's voice would deteriorate without smoking, but I'll bet you a carton of Camels, chain smoking for 45+ years hasn't helped. (Footnote: See Carson, Johnny; McQueen, Steve; Brenner, Yul; Wayne, John; Cooper, Gary) best wishes, brad ( a typical "born again" ex-smoker) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Bennett" To: Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 3:11 AM Subject: re: John Gorka > >I don't sing or write much anymore. My voice has deteriorated even more > than Joni's. I've often wondered about this. I have a theory that Joni's > voice would have changed dramatically, even if she didn't smoke. My voice > was quite like hers. People used to remark on it whenever I sang. But now, > it's just not 'pretty' anymore. Another of my favorite singers (my favorite, > in fact, until I heard Joni) was Julie Andrews. I always thought her voice > had a similar timbre and clarity. "Flute-y." And she can no longer sing. So, > I wonder if there's something about the structure of similar vocal chords > that doesn't fare well over time.< > > has this happened recently anne because I remember you singing beautifully a > few years back... maybe you are right about some kind of vocal chords > deterioriting... however I do think it is rare for anyone's voice to remain > the same quality as when younger & that it would be as frustrating & > impossible to try to remain singing the same way as it would to still fit > into our teenage clothes... a woman's voice is known to lower when she > reaches 30 years old & I suspect that this keeps on changing over the years, > along with everything else about us physically, & so we have to learn to > adjust our singing to fit our ever changing new voice (key, timbre, etc) > just as we do with so many things about ourselves as we age... Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 14:57:10 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: John Gorka What really happened is she did Victor/Victoria on stage 8 times a week in order to try and save her husband, Blake Edwards, career. She ruined her voice, and Blake's career was over years ago. Jerry > You said: "Julie Andrews. I always thought her voice had a similar timbre > and clarity. "Flute-y." And she can no longer sing." > > I think it was ten or fifteen years ago there was something in the news > about Ms. Andrews suffering from some form of throat cancer. They managed to > save her life and her ability to speak, but I gather the radiation > treatments destroyed her singing voice. > > We can speculate that Joni's voice would deteriorate without smoking, but > I'll bet you a carton of Camels, chain smoking for 45+ years hasn't helped. > (Footnote: See Carson, Johnny; McQueen, Steve; Brenner, Yul; Wayne, John; > Cooper, Gary) > best wishes, > brad ( a typical "born again" ex-smoker) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kate Bennett" > To: > Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 3:11 AM > Subject: re: John Gorka > > >>> I don't sing or write much anymore. My voice has deteriorated even more >> than Joni's. I've often wondered about this. I have a theory that Joni's >> voice would have changed dramatically, even if she didn't smoke. My voice >> was quite like hers. People used to remark on it whenever I sang. But now, >> it's just not 'pretty' anymore. Another of my favorite singers (my > favorite, >> in fact, until I heard Joni) was Julie Andrews. I always thought her voice >> had a similar timbre and clarity. "Flute-y." And she can no longer sing. > So, >> I wonder if there's something about the structure of similar vocal chords >> that doesn't fare well over time.< >> >> has this happened recently anne because I remember you singing beautifully > a >> few years back... maybe you are right about some kind of vocal chords >> deterioriting... however I do think it is rare for anyone's voice to > remain >> the same quality as when younger & that it would be as frustrating & >> impossible to try to remain singing the same way as it would to still fit >> into our teenage clothes... a woman's voice is known to lower when she >> reaches 30 years old & I suspect that this keeps on changing over the > years, >> along with everything else about us physically, & so we have to learn to >> adjust our singing to fit our ever changing new voice (key, timbre, etc) >> just as we do with so many things about ourselves as we age... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 15:23:20 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: John Gorka Brad wrote: > We can speculate that Joni's voice would deteriorate > without smoking, but > I'll bet you a carton of Camels, chain smoking for > 45+ years hasn't helped. > (Footnote: See Carson, Johnny; McQueen, Steve; > Brenner, Yul; Wayne, John; > Cooper, Gary) > best wishes, > brad ( a typical "born again" ex-smoker) Hi, Brad. Fact is, Joni claims to have started smoking at nine years old. That means she's been smoking for about 52 years. Of all the things I've ever smoked, it's cigarettes I truly regret. - --Smurf __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 18:47:32 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Albums that grew on you Unbelievably, I hated Blue when I first heard it. I discovered Joni when I was only 13, and a young 13 at that, and I really loved Joni's "magic princess trip" and the fact that she seemed so ethereal and otherworldly. Blue was a big chunk of reality that I was too young to understand. I felt betrayed by what I perceived as the cynicism of some of the lyrics, as well as the change in her singing style and in what I heard as the rambling melodies. Well, after a couple of weeks of doggedly playing it, I fell in love, permanently. At 10:55 AM 1/24/2005, you wrote: >Did anyone else find that the Joni albums they liked least on first >hearing are the ones they grew to love the most? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 16:14:43 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Peeling back another layer? Hey Lama, who knows what sticks in a person's sub-conscious that emerges at a later date, sometimes without their being aware of where it came from. Ok, Smurf, I'm still into Virginia Woolf, o-KAY? Mark E. in Seattle currently reading 'A Very Close Conspiracy' a fascinating book about Virginia's relationship with her sister, the painter Vanessa Bell (these women were nothing like Nicole Kidman and Miranda Richardson, btw) Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > Sure, spoil my fun, Catherine. :) I see your point though. Maybe > it's a little of each and I can hold onto my view. > > Jim > > Catherine McKay wrote: > >> <>Have you heard about the goose that laid the golden >> egg? That's what she's talking about. Will the next >> egg be golden, or will it just be... and egg? Will the >> next song you write be a hit and make lots of money >> for the record company, or will it be a dud? > > > I muttered something like >>> "the next one in the nest">> could be a decendant of the swallows >>> and hawk on Joellen's dulcimer. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 01:54:30 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Jonifest > I don't know how the brits and irish are planning to come to JoniFrance > but I > would add that Ryan Air fly to Girona / Gerona and also to Reus, which are > both an hour from Barcelona. I would be happy to show anyone around > Barcelona > and if we get the right crowd together I would be prepared to hire a car > to go > to Corbieres and back to Barcelona (or Girona airport) if costs were > shared > between passengers. > Best case scenario: Chris, Garret, Lucy, or whoever (for example) fly to > Girona or Barcelona and spend a couple of days on the razz with me. I hire > a > car to get 4 or 5 of us to Corbieres and then park the car until it's time > to > go home. I drive the others back to barcelona or girona. It's probably > (I'd > have to check) cheaper doing it this way than going by train. > How does that sound? > mike in bcn Sounds like a plan. Girona is a beautiful city and not as known as Barcelona. Do you have a bus driving licence? Where do I sign up? Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:01:30 -0500 From: "David Henderson" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2005 #31 Hello Everyone - RE >>>> Did anyone else find that the Joni albums they liked least on first hearing are the ones they grew to love the most? Regards John Southport, UK >>>> Hejira came out when I was in high school. I became obsessed with Song for Sharon, but I didn't like anything else on the album. After I tired of Song for Sharon, I put the album away for several years. When I was about 21, I put it on one day, and that was it, I fell in love with song after song after song. It was so incredible, and I couldn't remember for the life of me why I didn't like it the first time around. Hejira is still one of my two or three favorite Joni albums. RE >>>>> Travelogue is not my favourite, but i certainly like it more than i expected. I wonder how the Amelia fans feel about the reworked version on T. GARRET <<<< I'm not crazy about much of Travelogue either, but I think Hejira is absolutely brilliant. It's worth the price. I swear it's what I heard in my head, from the world created by lyrics, all those years. It feels like a warm fire on a snowy night in the forest, like clarity. That recording is now my all-time favorite Joni song. David NP Emimem, Encore ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:09:30 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: my joni mitchell tribute record Hi Zach, great to hear from you again, and I'm very excited for all your upcoming Euro-adventures...wish you all the best there. Of course I flip over any and all Joni covers, and after all of the positive feedback I heard about your lovely ACOY cover I'm anxious to hear whatever you record. There are some interesting angles to Joni covers, and it's definitely a good thing that you can appreciate her ENTIRE career output and not just the smaller window that most recording artists work with. You could put together a whole 80 minutes worth of Joni songs that no one has tackled yet! Certainly lots from the 80's & 90's, even some of the 70's stuff. After hearing Holly Near & Cris Williamson's take on Tea Leaf Prophecy & Teri Lynne Carrington's Ethiopia, I would be partial to hearing some earthier and more natural-sounding arrangements of some of those 80's songs. Any way you go, please keep us posted on what's going on with you & your music. Speaking of Natalie, have you seen "Closer"?...definitely not Star Wars. I was impressed. Bob NP: Patti Witten, "Another Minute More" (my fave PW track, definitely influenced by the song "Hejira" featuring a similar riff) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:14:40 -0500 From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Albums that grew on you Both BLUE and HISSING sat in my collection for a year before I "got" them. I bought both on vinyl, listened once or twice, trying to like them, and then put them away. Then, With BLUE, it was as if, one winter evening, my heart just opened up to it. I remember replaying Case of You repeatedly marveling at the interplay of Joni's dulcimer and James' guitar. I'll never forget that winter! I was working in a self service gas station in the middle of nowhere, Ohio, and on into the late-night, I would sit in the station and listen to Joni, and watch it snow out across the farmland from the floodlights of the gas station. With HISSING, I finally "got" it during my summer of pot smoking before my senior year in college. By the way, compared to the rat race life has become at 42, I've got to admit that I was much happier during those salad days of the gas station. "where does the time go?" Ken in Ohio ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 18:20:47 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: JOTMAS on Travelogue Had rejected this - for whatever reasons - its not quite as delicious in t \he conventional sense as the one on FTR. At least that was my initial impression. BUt in a way, I realize now its almost more fitting in a way. Travelogue (tho I've not heard it all) required great courage, I think...and faith. The faith of no tongue in the bell, or a waning one. Can someone tell me; are all the cuts on T'log so good? or are they only as good as the original song? Does some stuff come alive on here that really doesn't hold water in any earlier verison? Shot my Joni music-spending wad yesterday ordering MOA. But T'log might be next. Em ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 22:03:29 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Peeling back another layer? Catherine, "I think I understand." You're saying that BLUE was a glittering gift, but when she gave us DOG EAT DOG, she "laid an egg". Lama np: a light-bluegrass version of Stephanie Nicks' "Landslide" on our singer-songwriter radio station, WNKU. Catherine said, >Have you heard about the goose that laid the golden egg? That's what she's talking about. Will the next egg be golden, or will it just be... and egg? Will the next song you write be a hit and make lots of money for the record company, or will it be a dud?> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 23:10:22 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JOTMAS on Travelogue --- Em wrote: > Had rejected this - for whatever reasons - its not > quite as delicious > in t \he conventional sense as the one on FTR. At > least that was my > initial impression. > BUt in a way, I realize now its almost more fitting > in a way. > Travelogue (tho I've not heard it all) required > great courage, I > think...and faith. > The faith of no tongue in the bell, or a waning one. > Can someone tell me; are all the cuts on T'log so > good? or are they > only as good as the original song? > Does some stuff come alive on here that really > doesn't hold water in > any earlier verison? I think the t'log versions of "Flat tires" and "Be cool" are far superior to the original versions. There are others that I think are equal but different, most notably "God must be a boogie man", which is fun on both T and Ming. T songs I always skip over are "Woodstock", "The Circle Game" and "For the roses" which just take TOO LONG to get there, imo; anyway, how many versions "Woodstock" or "Circle Game" is anyone prepared to listen to? ME? Not many! ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 23:19:49 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Peeling back another layer? --- "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: > Catherine, > > "I think I understand." > > You're saying that BLUE was a glittering gift, but > when she gave us DOG > EAT DOG, she "laid an egg". > Nope. I happen to like DED. Unlike some people. It's more like, "whaddya do for a second act?" You have a hit, or a success of some kind, and then there's the constant fear that you won't be able to do it again. Or, the fear that now you've done it and there's no going back. Success could mean giving up your soul. And then, there's the pressure from the record companies to PERFORM, for them, not for you. Get out there and hustle them eggs and make some money for the company. Performance anxiety - for the artist to make something meaningful; for the handlers, to make a profit. And if you're talking about layers, it would probably be an onion. or maybe an ogre. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2005 #24 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)