From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2005 #17 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, January 18 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 017 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: DVD set [LCStanley7@aol.com] Ad Campaign Whole Foods (jonilicious) ["Happy The Man" ] Re: Number One ? [Em ] Re: Number One ? Where's LN ["mackoliver" ] Letter to Joni: Ten ideas...( long) [Justalittlebreen@aol.com] Re: Number One ? Where's LN [atel79@dsl.pipex.com] Re: Number One ? Where's LN top 10? [Em ] Cast of characters and Joni file sharing [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Hejira musings J (song) C [Melissa Gibbs ] I'll trump that pair with a box and a cube... [Justalittlebreen@aol.com] Re: Number One ? [Randy Remote ] Early and Late Work, and the danger of missing an act or two... [Justalit] Re: Early and Late Work, and the danger of missing an act or two... [Smur] Re: JMDL Digest V2005 #21 [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Stereophile Magazine ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: The Old Grey Whistle Test Show at al ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Cast of characters and Joni file sharing [Michael Paz ] Re: Number One ? Where's LN top 10? ["Kate Bennett" Subject: Ad Campaign Whole Foods (jonilicious) Whole Foods Market an Austin based store is opening their new mega store down on West 6th street across from their current store. I love whole foods because it is the largest natural foods market that prides themselves on civic duty. There has been quite a bit of press on their moving across the street to a empty lot that is run down to build their new store and it came to a hear this week with the following ad to announce their move. "We paved paradise and have put in a grocery stop" Ouch. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:09:19 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Number One ? A recently added entry to the Library is this article from 1992 (from London, I assume): _http://www.jmdl.com/library/view.cfm?id=1216_ (http://www.jmdl.com/library/view.cfm?id=1216) The best and the worst of the 20th century: singer/songwriters by Centipede ) The Guardian January 14, 1992 The sections I would like to comment on include: "THE best singer-song writer of the 20th century? "Well, naturally it's Joni Mitchell," said a friend of this column. He went on to explain that over the past 20 years her voice and her writing, her composition and her playing had reached a point of expressiveness that was unique in popular music. The implication was that while Elvis, Dylan, Jackson, Lennon, Elton, Wonder, Holly, and the Simons (Paul and Carly) are mere entertainers, Joni Mitchell's music is high art. It is difficult to agree with this; although Joni Mitchell may be elected to the top ten singer/ songwriters of the 20th century, she is not by any means the outstanding popular composer. To put Joni's work above the lyrical brilliance of Paul McCartney and the originality of John Lennon would be perverse.................................................... While you prepare for the Dylan revival that will ease us into the next century, perhaps you would like to consider the top ten singer/songwriters of this century: 1 Bob Dylan. 2 Elvis Presley. 3 John Lennon. 4 Paul McCartney. 5 Elton John. 6 Bob Marley. 7 Paul Simon. 8 Roy Orbison. 9 Eric Clapton. 10 Joni Mitchell." Now me, for a few points of analysis and speculation: 1. As usual, there is the difficulty of defining the term "best". (Not to mention "singer", and "songwriter"). 2. I suspect that this author (does anyone know who "Centipede" is ?) was a bit nonplussed by his friend's opinion. And, unless I miss my guess, were it not for his respect for his friend's opinion, Joni would not have been a part of his top ten. 3. He seems uncomfortable with the distinction between "mere entertainment" and "high art". And then by declaring that Joni is by no means the "outstanding popular composer", he adds three new words to the semantics problem. 4. I readily concede that Joni is not among even the top ten "popular composers". Isn't one measure of a popular composer that one's work be popular - and, in that sense, accessible to a wide audience by virtue of its not exceeding the bounds of their ability to appreciate it? Well, there are lots of people (Carole King, Lionel Richie, don't get me started) whose songs were more popular than Joni's in the sense that they sold more and reached more people - - even if they were not as widely covered in some cases. But I agree with his friend that Joni is the "best singer songwriter" by virtue of the high quality of her art. 5. Why ? Well, to be the best, you have to be "good" - and "better" than the others. Among the group he lists, one could argue that Joni is the best singer. Oh, you could get a fight about Elvis, I suppose, and from a style point of view, I can understand putting even Bob Dylan ahead of Joni. But in terms of using the voice as an instrument - hitting difficult notes well, and phrasing them well at the same time, I would wager that Joni could do a good job singing all of their songs, but I would venture that none of those others could do much of a job with Joni's more challenging work. And, live, she doesn't run around missing note after note, like some of the others. To be a great songwriter, you have to write great songs. I have no problem placing Elvis "number one" on a list of stars, or live performers. But even if he wrote the songs attributed to him, he would not get that high a ranking from me on the songwriter list. Also, to be a songwriter, wouldn't it be nice if one wrote the words (songs do have words in my definition - but, of course, this is another undefined term)? Elton John seemed to feel he would be better off having his pal write the lyrics. I can only assume that this was a wise judgment call on his part, since he had 8 number one albums in a row. And Eric Clapton ? Anyway, one needn't be the most popular to be the best. 6. I agree with the friend's implication that Joni's work is higher art than the others'. Her 'merit' rankings in all of the relevant singer/songwriter categories (unless "best" means "most popular") are uniformly high. For me, the relevant categories are: Compositional skills Melody Writer Harmonics (chord structure, counterpoint, harmony, etc.) Rhythm Lyrics Performing skills (Live and Studio) Singing Instrumental (Dancing, Light Shows, Make-up, etc. don't count in this category, IMO) Production Skills Arrangement Editing Engineering Packaging 7. That cannot be said for the others, who fall down significantly in one area or another (though in Paul Simon's case, with singing his least strong link - he really has no weak links - he's nevertheless behind Joni in all of the categories (including instrumentalist), with the possible exception of melody writing, where it is arguably close, depending on taste). Unless I miss my guess, this list maker was not a very big Joni listener ( a common obstacle for Joni, tho not so much so at the level of music critics) - or he would not have thought it "perverse" to compare Joni's work against McCartney's lyrical brilliance or Lennon's originality (much less made a comparison of any sort between Joni and Carly). I say this as a one-time Beatle maniac, who knew all of their songs and listened to them more than to all others combined for 5 years. I love those guys, but I only occasionally put on their stuff anymore. Their art does not hold up as well as Joni's, for me. Not only is her work superior to theirs overall, but - yes - in the specific categories named (and one can easily afford not to be first in every category and still be first overall), Joni's lyrical brilliance easily exceeds McCartney's (he is not worthy of being in the same discussion with Joni, really, in this category) and her originality (another tough term to define, but I'll just run with it) easily exceeds John Lennon's as a solo artist (and also compares favorably with John's songs while he was with the Beatles, and had a little help from his friends McCartney and Martin). In fact, on a musical level, John was a better craftsman than an originator, generally staying safely within his musical roots and limits. That said, I Am The Walrus (which utilizes all 12 major chords) and Strawberry Fields, for example, were highly original works, worthy of high marks in this category. Singer/songwriter is Joni's category. She gets my vote for "best", by a lot. Of course, if you took those 10 guys and put 'em in the category of "greatest all around artist", Joni's painting would put even more distance between herself and the group. Hey, think of all the people who did not make this guy's top 10 (with a name like Centipede, perhaps it should have been a top 100). Springsteen, Wonder, Holly, Young, Jackson Browne (he didn't mean Michael Jackson, I assume), Van Morrison, Prince, Carole King, Lionel Richie, Billy Joel, James Taylor, Sting, and many more whose fans here will no doubt remind me of (including Hall of Famers, CSN). A new year, a new chance to blow off some steam.Time now to turn off this broken record. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:35:23 EST From: Monafitz@aol.com Subject: Re: Number One ? Where's LN In a message dated 1/17/2005 11:18:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, Bobsart48@aol.com writes: While you prepare for the Dylan revival that will ease us into the next century, perhaps you would like to consider the top ten singer/songwriters of this century: 1 Bob Dylan. 2 Elvis Presley. 3 John Lennon. 4 Paul McCartney. 5 Elton John. 6 Bob Marley. 7 Paul Simon. 8 Roy Orbison. 9 Eric Clapton. 10 Joni Mitchell." I keep rereading the list and I do not see Laura Nyro? What's with that? Cheers, Mona Mona A. Fitzgerald Windsor, CT 06095 USA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:08:11 -0600 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: Jonifest updates Thanks for the update Laurent. I still need payment information for the deposits etc. I somehow missed it when it was originally sent, could you or someone please forward this so that I can send my deposit? Thanks, Donna >>> "Laurent Olszer" 1/16/2005 8:57:32 AM >>> Hi Laurent, Any up to date list of attendees? Any ideas on who might like to share a room with me, I mean, are there any people who are obviously attending alone and who I could approach with this perhaps indelicate question. Cheers, Mike Hi That's an excellent question Mike. For those of you who wish to share rooms then we need to figure out the logistics. I was planning to work at it down the line, but you're welcome to begin the process amongst yourselves. Current attendee list: Ashara (& friend), Les Irvin, Strings, Bob Muller, Lieve, Garret, Jamie Zubairi, Catherine Mc Kay (& kids, at Fargo), John Van Tiel & Claudia (at Fargo), Emiliano, Mike Pritchard, Chris Marshall Possible attendees: Colin, Kate Bennett (& husband), Bob Sartorius (+3), Less Ross, Gordon Mackie, Anita & Gabrielle, Donna Binkley, Lucy Hone, Ron, Martin Giles, Lori Hakulinen, Marian The confirmed list is 16-17 people. We need a minimum of 30 to break even. So now is the time to do some one on one recruiting. I'm cc this to several people who told me OK in 2004 but haven't confirmed yet. We need your deposits! Regarding on site lodging: Ashara was 1st to book the upper bungalow. So now we've got to assign the lower bungalow (4 single beds) & the mill (3 singles). The early birds for those are: Lieve, Garrett, Emiliano & Chris Marshall. Then to be assigned are the B&Bs: rooms for 3 and rooms for 4. This could turn into a real french Vaudeville!! Laurent This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:00:42 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Number One ? Wow, heck of a post! I had this flash of Dylan covering the entire album "Blue" and I laughed and laughed, cuz that stuff is hard to sing. And then I realized that I'd love to hear how he'd do it. Very kinky thought indeed. :) Em - --- Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: > 5. Why ? Well, to be the best, you have to be "good" - and > "better" than > the others. Among the group he lists, one could argue that Joni is > the best > singer. Oh, you could get a fight about Elvis, I suppose, and from > a style > point of view, I can understand putting even Bob Dylan ahead of > Joni. But in > terms of using the voice as an instrument - hitting difficult notes > well, and > phrasing them well at the same time, I would wager that Joni could > do a good > job singing all of their songs, but I would venture that none of > those others > could do much of a job with Joni's more challenging work. And, live, > she > doesn't run around missing note after note, like some of the others. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:39:30 -0600 From: "mackoliver" Subject: Re: Number One ? Where's LN That is one bogus list. Where did that come from? At least half of those are not even good songwriters, in my opinion. 9 men and 1 woman. That makes sense. Balderdash. And Joni beats every one of them in substance. mack - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 10:35 AM Subject: Re: Number One ? Where's LN > In a message dated 1/17/2005 11:18:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, > Bobsart48@aol.com writes: > > While you prepare for the Dylan revival that will ease us into the next > century, perhaps you would like to consider the top ten singer/songwriters > of > this century: > 1 Bob Dylan. > 2 Elvis Presley. > 3 John Lennon. > 4 Paul McCartney. > 5 Elton John. > 6 Bob Marley. > 7 Paul Simon. > 8 Roy Orbison. > 9 Eric Clapton. > 10 Joni Mitchell." > > > > > I keep rereading the list and I do not see Laura Nyro? What's with that? > > Cheers, Mona > > Mona A. Fitzgerald > Windsor, CT 06095 > USA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 12:55:31 EST From: Justalittlebreen@aol.com Subject: Letter to Joni: Ten ideas...( long) Hi, all, Well, a sleepless night, so I thought I'd do something constructive. I was unable to devise a plan for World Peace (although hint to the current occupant of the Alabaster Mansion at 1.6K PA Ave: not what you're doing), come up with a cure for AIDS (don't get me started), or construct a proof of the Riemann Hypothesis (extremely obscure math joke, but worth a million bucks to anyone who solves it), so instead I wrote down ten ideas for the next ten Joni albums. General Rules : (i) No More Compilation Albums. (ii) On any given new album, up to half of the songs may be covers (i.e., re-recordings) of her already recorded stuff, but that's it. The rest have to be newbies, or at least (see esp. idea #3) never officially recorded before. And so, drum roll, please (this is in the order the ideas occurred to me): (1) Christmas Album. Didn't she sort of promise this one, or at least mention it as a possibility, at some point? In any case, she's already got Gift(s) of the Magi, River and Facelift as sure things, and arguably also Chinese Cafe (others?). I'd settle for her writing at least two new KwaanzaChristmaChanukah songs, and then doing as many covers as she feels like. (2) A Bossa Nova album. No, seriously. Well, okay, full disclosure: I've been bingeing on Jobim/Gilberto (both Joao and Bebel) lately. My current favorite song in the world is "Zingaro", which I'd never heard until I bought a CD that contained both of the elder Gilberto's "Amoroso" and "Brasil" albums. "Zingaro" is to die for. My beloved partner Robert, who during ten years has gotten used to my various oddities (it goes both ways, trust me), caught me laughing out loud the first time I heard the song -- I laugh or cry at the best songs -- he likes music, he likes Joni up through Hejira, but he doesn't know the language of music, so it was hard to explain to him how astonishing the song is. In some ways, it's like "Flight of the Bumblebee" with gorgeous chords gradually shifting around it (I guess you gotta hear it); certainly "chromatic" covers it to a large extent. I recall a discussion/thread started by someone on the list (sorry, don't remember who) that I responded to, in which we agreed that we wished that Joni would return to some of her more chromatic songwriting with surprising chord changes (early: think "Marcy"; late: think the bridge to "TtT", the song). This is what made me put the two together. The closest to a Latin/Brazilian sound by Joni that springs to mind are "Anima Rising" and "Dreamland", although I see possibilities in "Otis and Marlena" and even "The Wolf That Lives In Lindsay". If Bossa Nova (Brazilian Portuguese for "new boss"; okay, just kidding, it means "new cow": okay, okay, sorry, I think it means "new beat" or some such thing -- my Portuguese dictionary is in the other room, and I don't want to wake the hubby) is too narrow a format, maybe Latin/Carribean/Brazilian, or even World Music (she could toss in "Jungle Line", but she still ought to write a few new songs with world themes). (3) "Twentysomething", after Jane Siberry's "Teenager". I'm a Siberry fan, but I didn't know what to expect when that album came out. What a lovely surprise -- she ended up just singing the songs accompanying herself on the guitar, much the way she'd composed them, literally when she was a teenager. Some of them, okay, are a bit... immature, lyrically, but just about all of them are starkly honest or sweetly poetic or both; several are astonishingly sophisticated (my fave -- "Broken Birds", first time I heard her sing the lines "Come to the window/...Oh, no, you don't...", I gasped, much the way I did the first time I heard her sing the line "You're chickening out, aren't you?" in "Love Is Everything", and the first time I heard the line about finding another lover for her lover in that Taxi Song, like the first time I heard Joni sing "Well,I failed/'Grow up!' I cried", etc. etc. So Joni: Jane wasn't embarrassed, and neither should you be. If you won't sing such songs as "Eastern Rain" for whatever reason, let someone else do it. Shawn Colvin? Can Kilauren sing? Maybe somebody new trying to break out?... (4) Two more stolen ideas, both from k.d. lang: "Smoke" (after "Drag"), and "Songs from the 51st Parallel". You could cover a coupla k.d. and Jane songs, but god knows there's plenty of other Canadian singer/songwriters out there (please do some Gordon Lightfoot -- you've know him, what, 40 years? Oh, Jeez, is he still alive -- I should always find these things out before writing, but typing exhausts me now, so I'm lazy on the research end -- anyhow, please cover "Beautiful", his most beautiful song imho). A third idea: Shawn C. did a cover album (called "Cover Girl", if I recall correctly) about ten years ago, in which she covered only male singer/songwriters. Since both "Drag" and "Cover Girl" are taken, you'd have to come up with something else clever. You're up to it. (5) "Painful Dis[charge]" or "Still Bitchy (After All These Years)". You know -- you could do six of your best breakup songs, and write some new ones. (6) "Swan Song". I hate to suggest this title, but if it has to be your last(?) album, it could be animal themed. No shortage of material here (DED, TT, various other songs ), but note that General Rule (ii) is still in effect. (7) "Going Native", or "First Nation, First Served". Once again, plenty of material here -- you want a challenge, get someone to translate, say, "I Am Lakhota" into Lakhota, "Song For Sharon" into Mohawk, "Paprika Plains" into Blackfoot or Cree -- well, okay maybe not that last one, you'd be 90 by the time that was finished -- but you get the idea. General Rule (ii) is still in effect. (8) "C'mon, Get Happy With Joni". Admittedly, these last three came to me when I was getting punchy around 5 a.m. Well, you could start with your masterpiece "Jericho". Um, "Morning Morgantown". "Love, Corinthians..." There are others, I'm sure, and yes, GR (ii) is still in effect. C'mon, Joni, you are happy now, what with your refound family -- which brings me to the next idea: (9) "Kid Stuff" -- As you well know, several of your mostly early songs are already kiddie classics (mostly because the kindergarten teachers are too busy wiping noses or whatever to really reflect on the lyrics), but you could certainly write some new ones, say, with your grandkids in mind. (10) Collaboration. I know, some jmdlers will shudder at the thought. There are many non-fans of your collaborative work ("HOSL" worked out pretty nicely; I personally love "Snakes and Ladders", and like "Nothing Can Be Done", but perhaps the less said about LK here the better; I didn't care for "Crazy Cries...") But I've got that book (once again, memory fails me) about you and Elvis C. carrying on the torch tradition in songwriting -- too bad he's so busy right now, what with the marriage to DK and getting her to write songs -- or, hmmm, okay what about you and Burt Bacharach, one of your few, if not your only, coeval in songwriting. He desperately needs a collaborater who does both melody and lyrics (his best work in the past twenty-plus years was with once, again Elvis C -- oh, my, what if the three of you...? But I swoon.). There, that should get you started. Love to all jmdlers (and if by some miracle, Joni, this should really meet your eyes, if I weren't as gay as pink mud and about as attractive, well, I'm about the same age as Larry, and I'd wait on you hand and foot...), Walt Breen (justalittlebreen@aol.com) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:41:31 +0000 From: atel79@dsl.pipex.com Subject: Re: Number One ? Where's LN Quoting Monafitz@aol.com: > In a message dated 1/17/2005 11:18:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, > Bobsart48@aol.com writes: > > While you prepare for the Dylan revival that will ease us into the next > century, perhaps you would like to consider the top ten singer/songwriters > of > this century: > 1 Bob Dylan. > 2 Elvis Presley. > 3 John Lennon. > 4 Paul McCartney. > 5 Elton John. > 6 Bob Marley. > 7 Paul Simon. > 8 Roy Orbison. > 9 Eric Clapton. > 10 Joni Mitchell." > > > > > I keep rereading the list and I do not see Laura Nyro? What's with that? > > Cheers, Mona > The answer to your question, Mona, is that the Centipede's column was just a forum for throwing out lists in The Independent (if memory serves) and provoking discussion; the writer did not appear to have spent more than five minutes compiling the list, and did not hold himself out as an expert, which is just as well, as you would have to be pretty darn ignorant about music to nominate Elvis as a singer-songwriter. That is not even a matter of opinion, it is pretty much fact: he was accorded a handful of co-writing credits which just about everyone in the know acknowledges were spurious. Eric Clapton? Written a few good songs, one or two great ones - his forte is neither singing nor songwriting! Elton John? A good case could be made for him and Bernie Taupin as a great songwriting team, but he is simply not a lyricist. I like a list as much as the next music punter, but this one is among the most facile I've ever seen - and I remember thinking exactly the same thing when it first appeared in 1992! And as I'm on the subject, and as we haven't had this for a while, how about a survey of whom we consider to be the greatest singer-songwriters?? I offer my list, which I also spent all of five minutes compiling, so I've probably left out some geniuses. I've omitted a few songwriters who, although they are great, have written much of their best work in collaboration (Shawn Colvin, Neil Finn, Marvin Gaye, Carole King). Order is similarly not that well thought out, but hey, it's just a bit of fun... 1. Joni Mitchell 2. Richard Thompson 3. Bob Dylan 4. Laura Nyro 5. Jane Siberry 6. David Bowie 7. Kate Bush 8. Stevie Wonder 9. Leonard Cohen 10. Todd Rundgren Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:29:27 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Number One ? Where's LN top 10? Here goes: 1. Dylan 2. Joni & Leonard Cohen (they have to share 2nd, altho there is *more* Joni stuff I like, and I'm thankful for that) 3. Buddy Holly 4. Neil Y., JT and Cat Stevens have to share #4 cuz I can't decide 5. Elvis Costello 6. John Stewart 7. Gordon Lightfoot 8. Jerry Garcia 9. Donovan (I know - I'm weird) 9 1/2. Ralph McTell 10. Springsteen and you know there may be more.... Zevon comes to mind.... Eric Anderson, Hoyt Axton, Fred Neal, Greg Brown, Richard Shindell, Mary Chapin Carpenter..so very many - --- atel79@dsl.pipex.com wrote: > And as I'm on the subject, and as we haven't had this for a while, > how about a > survey of whom we consider to be the greatest singer-songwriters?? I > offer my > list, which I also spent all of five minutes compiling, so I've > probably left > out some geniuses. I've omitted a few songwriters who, although they > are > great, have written much of their best work in collaboration (Shawn > Colvin, > Neil Finn, Marvin Gaye, Carole King). Order is similarly not that > well thought > out, but hey, it's just a bit of fun... > > 1. Joni Mitchell > 2. Richard Thompson > 3. Bob Dylan > 4. Laura Nyro > 5. Jane Siberry > 6. David Bowie > 7. Kate Bush > 8. Stevie Wonder > 9. Leonard Cohen > 10. Todd Rundgren > > Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 14:24:58 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Cast of characters and Joni file sharing Anne wrote: <> Cast member Ashara checking in after somewhat of a long absence from being "under the weather" to welcome Brad and Mark and any other newbies that have come on board. All I can say is the JMDL must be a pretty awesome place to keep me here for 7 plus years! YIKES!! For all those that have been intrigued, interested and otherwise curious about the file sharing "thang" that Les set up, but were afraid that they were not "techno" enough, I am here to tell you that if "I", the MOST non-techno-oriented of all of you can do it, than you can too! There are so many WONDERFUL and generous people over there to help you, and I've gotten so many great shows from there! I will rely on Richard, Les, or one of the other technos to tell you how to join, but seriously, it is SO easy once you have a little help from your friends! (Thanks Les, Moni, Richard et al!!) DO IT NOW!!! You won't be sorry! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:47:06 +1100 From: Melissa Gibbs Subject: Re: Hejira musings J (song) C What a terrific post! I, too, have been moved by Hejira, particularly while travelling through Asia last year. While my travels took me a million miles from snow, pine wood trees and woodfires, for me Hejira is really a song about life's travels and journeys. Strangely, I find myself reflecting on the song whenever I travel, but it really is about the journey. I remember being beaten around in a four wheel drive vehicle with the words "I'm travelling in some vehicle" whirling around in my head, so it even has some literal meanings wherever I travel! Melissa in Sydney, Australia ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 19:45:31 EST From: Justalittlebreen@aol.com Subject: I'll trump that pair with a box and a cube... Hi, all: Bobsart said: <> I'm sure someone esle will have beaten me to the punch on this one, but I believe a "boxed" (more like "paired") set of #4 and #5 has just been released, non? Two videos together, anyway. I wish she *would* release a real boxed set of more than two at a time, esp. older stuff like #1 and #2... just a thought, Just a little (formerly big) walt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:13:31 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Number One ? Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: (The Guardian said:) > While you prepare for the Dylan revival that will ease us into the next > century, perhaps you would like to consider the top ten singer/songwriters of > this century: > 1 Bob Dylan. > 2 Elvis Presley. > 3 John Lennon. > 4 Paul McCartney. > 5 Elton John. > 6 Bob Marley. > 7 Paul Simon. > 8 Roy Orbison. > 9 Eric Clapton. > 10 Joni Mitchell." > Elvis??? As a songwriter?? I know he dabbled, but come on...Clapton is a bit of a stretch, too. Definitely a honkycentric list, Marley notwithstanding. Antonio Carlos Jobim should be on there. RR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:28:38 EST From: Justalittlebreen@aol.com Subject: Early and Late Work, and the danger of missing an act or two... Still out of lurkdom for the moment -- Em wrote <> Hmmm. I do tend to sort of agree with Em's comment on Joni's earlier as opposed to later *musical* work. I think good work -- whether it be music, visual art, mathematics, quantum phsyics -- pours out of gifted people's minds and souls faster in youth than in their maturity. And a lot of people seem to go through a second-act slump, only to recover nicely in the third act (speaking of which, has everybody gone out and bought Melissa Manchester's most recent album? -- I wasn't aware of it until this past fall -- possibly the best of her career); but if you truly sit *out* your second act, like, say Fagen/Becker (=Steely Dan) more or less did, and Phoebe Snow seems to have, you *may* get a chance to shine, a la Steely Dan's "Two Against Nature", a masterpiece, or sadsadsad, you may be robbed of your Second Act because youthful overindulgence or an understandably bad reaction to fame (too many to mention in the late '60's/early '70's), or slog through your Second Act only to be robbed of your third (sadsadsadsadsad: Laura Nyro). For what it's worth, I sorta liked Burt B's and Laura N's stuff in the '80's, just as I liked Joni's, even if i recognized the stuff as just sort of keeping the whetstone turning. So Phoebe, and anyone else who may have gotten disgusted with the music biz in the late '70's or whenever, listen up: There are other places to record than L.A.; Melissa M. said Nashville revived her (n.b.: the album is *not* CW) -- maybe try there. Also, as i mentioned in a lengthy earlier post, Jane Siberry went back to her roots, unearthed some lovely early songs and put out a wonderful album "Teenager" s she turned 40. I know Joni just sorta did it with Trav., but I mean the *really* early stuff, that remains heard only on bootleg of varying quality, or among dear Friends Of Joni. A quick note about Joni's art -- imho, it's been all over the map, but generally speaking, I think it's gotten *better* with maturity. Short posting, my ass -- I've got to stop believing myself. And, forgive me for closing a tad bitchily, esp. on this day, but, please, enough with the Aluminum Can Poisoning postings; I can think of six things off the top of my head that are worse than potential ACP (I can see the pharmaceutical ads now: "ACP -- Don't Let It Can You"), and between us, say Mingus and I have them all, and three of them kept me from sleeping last night. Sorry about that last part, best to all, Walt "justalittletired" B. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 19:01:27 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: Early and Late Work, and the danger of missing an act or two... Wild, wacky Walt wrote: << And, forgive me for closing a tad bitchily, esp. on this day, but, please, enough with the Aluminum Can Poisoning postings; I can think of six things off the top of my head that are worse than potential ACP (I can see the pharmaceutical ads now: "ACP -- Don't Let It Can You" >> Ha! Mine is -- "ACP. The poison that goes down easier than Death Taxes." You never have to apologize for your uber bitchitude, Walt honey. At least it makes it seem, however briefly, as if Catherine's not the only one here. (Then she starts right up all over again.) And as far as early and late work goes, I think it is often fascinating to look at what artists are doing in their in their second and third (or whatever) acts -- and then to compare and contrast them. Emmylou Harris and Rod Stewart, for example. The high road vs. the road to Hell by way of Jump-the-Shark Lane. (Sidebar: God, what happened to Rod? He was once a great blues singer, which is quite an accomplishment when one is very young and Scottish. And what's with the plastic surgery? Last time I saw him I thought Melissa Rivers had decided to get a mullet. Poor Rod has become a "Maturity Don't" -- like leather pants!) It's not just performers and their mature works that I'm talking about, but also writers and directors and artists of any kind, really. Choreographers, designers, sculptors ... I think that maturity cannot help but change artists and thus the art. But some people, some artists, learn a bit here and a bit there about their chosen fields. And as they grow and mature, all of these things come together and make their art, whatever it is, greater (whatever that means) than it could have been when the artist was immature. I think Clint Eastwood right now is a very good example of this. As a side note, I am also fascinated by artists who never really go away, and seem to be famous all over again every ten years or so. Like John Travolta. Or Tiny Tim (RIP). Tony Randall was another. There are many examples of this -- so many that I think the phrase "there are no second acts in American life" should finally be laid to rest. But the queen of this phenomenon will always be, for me, Cher. Whatever you or I think of her, it has been noted that after life as we know it ceases on this planet, Cher will rule over a kingdom of cockroach minions. Now, what was I talking about? - --Smurf __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:35:27 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2005 #21 To put Joni's work above the lyrical brilliance of Paul McCartney and the originality of John Lennon would be perverse.................................................... While you prepare for the Dylan revival that will ease us into the next century, perhaps you would like to consider the top ten singer/songwriters of this century: 1 Bob Dylan. 2 Elvis Presley. 3 John Lennon. 4 Paul McCartney. 5 Elton John. 6 Bob Marley. 7 Paul Simon. 8 Roy Orbison. 9 Eric Clapton. 10 Joni Mitchell." I'm not sure where this discussion started, but my two cents: Joni ranks far above Elton - he has written few lyrics and doesn't have nearly the breadth of talent she does. Lennon and McCartney - it's true that together they wrote some absolutely flawless pop songs, but separately, not quite as hot. And nary a jazzy note there. Joni nails it for both quality and scope. Bryan Now Playing - Shawn Colvin, Polaroids/Greatest Hits (man oh man, isn't "Shotgun Down the Avalanche" an absolutely amazing song?) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 23:26:22 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Stereophile Magazine Yo, Stereophile has a tradition of printing a few raves for classic albums from their editors in a feature called "Records To Die For". (Note to people outside of North America: "to die for" means really good. I think it has roots in Yiddish. A Manhattan hostess might say, "Try the german chocolate cake. It's so rich, it's to die for.") I don't always agree with them and I have zero knowledge about anything from classical realms at all. Anyway, in this issue they've written some nice words about several artists close to Joni and our era: Randy Newman / Good Old Boys Pink Floyd / Dark Side of the Moon Brian Wilson / Pet Sounds Live Tom Waits / Closing Time Emmylou Harris / Quarter Moon in a Ten Cent Town Radiohead / Hail To the Thief Neil Young & Crazy Horse / Greendale Ray Charles / Genius Loves Company The Clash / London Calling Miles Davis Quintet: 1965 - 1968 (6 CDs!) Paul Simon /Graceland Thelonius Monk / Brilliant Corners Brian Wilson / Smile Marvin Gaye / What's Goin' On? And the Editor in chief, John Atkinson, redeemed himself from a multitude of sins by picking "Shadows and Light". He noted some of the differences between the content of the CDs and the DVD. It's the February 2005 issue and it's a fine way to spend $5.99 US and a couple of hours. All the best, Jim np: Real Good, For Free (sung by CSN on "Allies") ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 23:47:37 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: The Old Grey Whistle Test Show at al Amen, Brother Sartorius. I'd add the BBC broadcast with JT. You grouped the first Carnegie Hall show in with the Pink Dress show but I think it might stand alone... one fine day. BTW, I have the brief appearance of the Dave Brubeck Quartet on "Jazz Casual". It's worthwhile to see them do an uninterrupted take of "Blue Rondo ala Turk". Brubeck had a real bravado when laying out his manifesto about poly-tonality and poly-rhythms. i.e. "Jazz has been stuck in 4/4 time for 40 years. That's long enough I think." All the best, Jim np: Raised on Robbery on the S&L DVD. (I think the "cook" in this song is an older, sadder cousin to the 3 waitresses in Barangrill.) PS, The other day on the World Cafe, someone said that in the forthcoming Volume II of "Chronicles", Bob Dylan writes about the "Blood On the Tracks" sessions. You said, >1. The Pink Dress Concert circa 1970 ( I wouldn't mind seeing the first Carnegie Hall concert either - I attended the second one). 2. The Victoria Theatre Concert (1974). Or anything else filmed from that tour, whence came Miles of Aisles). 3. Shadows and Light 4. Refuge of the Roads 5. Painting With Words and Music 6. TNT Tribute Concert> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 00:07:18 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Open Letter to Sadie J. McKee, was RE: Chinese Cafe Mrs. McKee, After all these years, here is your praise. A muse rarely gets a writer's credit. Lama >But the earlier stuff is almost like channelled from beyond, or from some "source" of excellence that only very few have ever tapped into.> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 00:37:10 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Number One ? Wow! Great job, Bob. Though I agreed with you only 60% of the time, you parsed it out very deliberately. I really enjoyed reading that. Too bad you didn't sub earlier because you missed Julie Z. Webb and tons of great stuff from Kakki. All the best, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 23:39:23 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Cast of characters and Joni file sharing I have been on quite a bit lately and I never see you there Madame Ashara. I have a list as long as your arm to download from certain people that never seem to log on. Whas up with that. Les was trying to get me to join forever and I had tech probs but now I am on and mostly no ones home. ???? Lub Paz > Anne wrote: > > < meet the whole cast in time. >> > > Cast member Ashara checking in after somewhat of a long absence from being > "under the weather" to welcome Brad and Mark and any other newbies that have > come on board. All I can say is the JMDL must be a pretty awesome place to > keep > me here for 7 plus years! YIKES!! > > For all those that have been intrigued, interested and otherwise curious > about the file sharing "thang" that Les set up, but were afraid that they were > not > "techno" enough, I am here to tell you that if "I", the MOST > non-techno-oriented of all of you can do it, than you can too! There are so > many WONDERFUL and > generous people over there to help you, and I've gotten so many great shows > from there! I will rely on Richard, Les, or one of the other technos to tell > you how to join, but seriously, it is SO easy once you have a little help from > your friends! (Thanks Les, Moni, Richard et al!!) DO IT NOW!!! You won't be > sorry! > > Hugs, > Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 00:44:38 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Bunk! 100% JC Here's one random thought. Conventional wisdom is that after "Dog Eat Dog", Joni swore off producers. Bunk. What are "Both Sides Now" and "Travelogue" but Joni doing it Vince's way? All the best, Lam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:05:36 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Number One ? Where's LN top 10? Patty Griffin & John Gorka would be on my list of top singer/songwriters... both with incredible voices & incredible songs ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 02:01:54 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20Number=20One=20=3F=A0=20Where's=20LN=A0=20 t?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?op=2010=3F?= Like they sing on "Sesame Street": "...how many is ten?...": *Robert Johnson *Roberta Joan Anderson Mitchell *Bob Marley *Tom Waits *Stevie Wonder *Carole King *Marvin Gaye *Ida Cox *Tracy Chapman *Jim Croce *Smokey Robinson *Carly Simon *Carla Bonoff *Neil Young *Cat Stevens *James Taylor *John Lennon *George Harrison *Townes Van Zandt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 02:08:10 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20Number=20One=20=3F=A0=20Where's=20LN=A0=20 t?= op 10? Sorry, gang. I have no idea what happened here. At least I didn't forget "njc." - -Julius ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2005 #17 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)