From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #338 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, November 27 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 338 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni v.s. Evil (a bit spooky):) [Nuriel Tobias ] Poetry [Garret ] Tom Rush in the Boston Area this weekend (some joni content, always) [B] Slide show of the ballons in NYC [] Re: Slide show of the ballons in NYC [Catherine McKay ] success [Vince Lavieri ] Thankful Again [Michael Paz ] Sharing some success after misery [steph@cix.co.uk (Anita Gabrielle Tedde] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 04:19:26 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Joni v.s. Evil (a bit spooky):) I think Joni's choice was to fight fire with fire. Joni is a religioun of her own. While most religiouns (including pop culture) use methods such as meditation, mantra-like dancing, joy spreading songs, healing, acts of purity etc' - which in a way is fighting Evil by sending good vibrations, or even not fighting Evil at all, as in "Let those demons be what they wish to be because we are living in another planet" - i believe that Joni, aware of the fact that she's living in a world of poisoned snakes (from lovers, to lawyers, to God), has decided to "become" a snake and posion them in return. Joni, imho, isn't someone who'd place flowers inside killer's guns - she'd steal their guns, shoot them, and light her fag. If this is indeed a witchhunts and wars world - i think Joni has decided to teach them what a witch is and start hunting them. That leads to some questions. First of all - i doubt if Evil doers in this world ever listened to Joni's songs, and in case they have, i'm not interested in their opinios. WE listen to them, and WE are not Evil doers. (I wish i could agree with you, Randy, and basicly i do, but going through all of Joni's work, those who deal with Evil, misery, madness, desperation, anger, bitterness, etc' - really outnumber the spreading positivity ones. Yes, Joni's planting a treat-song or 2 in each album, but first you have to go through a lot of tricks). Back to us. I often read that folks resent joni's music described as "depressing", I find it strange, for Joni herself claimed that while she's painting her joy - she sings her misery. (Recently, in the Fresh Air interview she spoke about her house-keeper who told her that he doesn't understand how a cheerful woman like her writes so many depressing songs and blamed it on the fact that she's working all night, and she totaly agreed with him, got up early in the morning, took her guitar with all intensions to write a happy song - and came up with 'The Magdalene Laundries'.) I don't know if Joni's intentions at the begining of her career was to become a global superstar, but i have no doubt that as years went by she knew that her communication was basicly with US. Album by album, her "relationship" with Evil grew stronger - (I find TI to be an ordeal of the first degree) - and WE became the third part in that "relationship". A stupid analysis would be that this is a sado-maso relationship. But surely that's not the case. I think Joni's dealing with infliction. She wants us to be angry. She wants us to cry. She wants us to be confused. only then - we'll find some release. And if we won't - at least we'll not take part in "Fool's heaven". And you know what? Maybe she is "punishing" us a bit and secretly wishes to "drive us insane":) - but i once read in an Irish play that 'There's no comfort as the comfort of madness'. seconed of all - unlike so many artists, writers, philosophers etc' who stood face to face with Evil untill they became Evil themselves, or were defeated by Evil and were silenced, or went mad or commited suicide - Joni's kept pounding and never gave up. My advice, if i may? Don't take Joni's words (The Vanity interview) regarding The Begining Of Survival where she's saying that "That's my best album ever" too lightly, for this album, imho, is more than "Remember i told you so back then and see how relevant it still is". Joni's saying that "That's my best album ever" means to me "This album is the assence of what i am". As for myself - and do forgive me - i find her Me vs. Evil songs to be the most uplifting ones. They mean freedom to me. I've reached a state where i'm crying while listening to "All I Want" and bursting in laughter while listening to "Tax Free". I'm suffering from the same "cheerful mude" that Joni's house-keeper couldn't figure out. Yours, Nuriel Randy Remote wrote: Nuriel Tobias wrote: > What do you think is the best way to fight Evil with songs? To Describe it as it is, or to spread positivity? Drop jukeboxes on bad people. I think both ways are good. People like Bruce Cockburn, John Trudell, and Joni Mitchell have effectively used serious lyrics to talk about serious things. Maybe the song enforces your own belief in something, maybe it introduces you to an issue that you later learn more about (Magdelena Laundries, for instance). Altho a purely intellectual approach, for me anyway, can be a little too dry, bread with no butter. Spreading positivity; I would say spreading a higher consciousness- showing through art and harmony the possibility for a more harmonious relationship with the world- is another way of going about it. The Beatles, Yes, and many others. The best, like Joni or Pink Floyd or Lennon use both simultaneously. Another approach is just to do whatever you are doing, and donate to worthy organizations. The Grateful Dead did this-you would be hard pressed to find a political song amongst their reperitiore, but they funnelled gobs of money to many philanthropic causes. RR Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:57:46 +0000 From: Garret Subject: Poetry When splitting my books into sections recently (after getting back from london and rediscovering boxes and boxes that i had stored here while away) i came upon Joni Mitchell lyrics and poems or whatever it's called. I read some of the lyrics out loud and realised that many of them are really great and that was one of things that drew me to Joni's music originally. for the eighteen months i have not connected with JM's music the wya i used to, and i was, initially at least, none too pleased with TBOS and Dreamland after the geffen box set. I shared this re-realisation with freinds and now am sharing it with you. My friends mostly role their eyes with the mention of La Mitchell. me gets thinking. Given the variety of people on this list, and the vast geographic distribution i came up with an idea THE GREAT JMDL INTERNATIONAL POETRY SWAP So, if *anyone* at all is interested email me. The idea goes roughly like this: some JMDL folk from all sorts of backgrounds and many countries get together in small groups and exchange poetry either native to the country they are from or the country they are in. Personally, i am very proud of much irish peotry (written or else translated into engish cos i am not able to appreciate the subtleties of poetry in the irish language) and would love to share some of the more interesting bits with ye, or at least some of the poets that appeal to me. This way we could introduce some historically important figures to our jmdl friends, or could give a nod of the head to some of the great modern poets that seem only to make it in their own countries. Something like once a month one person in the group sends poetry books to the rest of the group (groups of five or six) until everyone has exchanged some. Even if i only get one or two replies i would be willing to go ahead with this. Any takers?? GARRET - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 08:33:40 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: Tom Rush in the Boston Area this weekend (some joni content, always) Folk legend Tom Rush to perform at Bull Run By Nathan Lamb SHIRLEY -- Folk music is coming to Shirley this Thanksgiving weekend in the form of folk legend Tom Rush, who will be in town for two performances at the Bull Run Restaurant on Nov. 26 and 27. details at http://www.harvardhillside.com/Stories/0,1413,108~5342~2559816,00.html Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 15:17:47 -0500 From: Subject: Slide show of the ballons in NYC I'm the first to admit that US culture is shallow and brutal most of the time. The Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade in NYC is an exception. Here's a link to the coverage on the NY Times website. On the right, you'll find a box labeled MULTIMEDIA. Click the link called "Slide Show: The Parade". http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/26/nyregion/26parade.htm?th My favorite picture shows a couple in the street with onlookers in the background. The guy is down on one knee in front of a woman. She is crying... She had just accepted a marraige proposal. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 20:06:19 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Slide show of the ballons in NYC --- jlamadoo@fuse.net wrote: > I'm the first to admit that US culture is shallow > and brutal most of the time. The Macy's > Thanksgiving Day parade in NYC is an exception. > > Here's a link to the coverage on the NY Times > website. On the right, you'll find a box labeled > MULTIMEDIA. Click the link called "Slide Show: The > Parade". > > http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/26/nyregion/26parade.htm?th > Yeah, but... yabbut yabbut - you gots to be a subscriber to go there! Damn, I hate that! as if I don't get spammed enough already. The NY Times is most likely worth signing up for (you don't have to pay) but I'm just too friggin' lazy to bother, esp. if it means they're going to be sending me e-mails all the time. My mother used to love watching that parade on TV. We used to watch Toronto's Santa Claus parade too. That was a week or two ago. I used to take the kids down to watch it (sometimes) when they were younger, but you'd have to get there about two hours before it started to get a decent place to watch - and damn! it was cold sometimes. I used to feel so sorry for those kids and marching bands and all the people in the parade, because they would be walking for hours, but what you see on TV condenses it all into under one hour. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Doctors' pills give you brand new ills. ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 17:14:13 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni v.s. Evil (a bit spooky):) Nuriel Tobias wrote: > (I wish i could agree with you, Randy, and basicly i do, but going through all of Joni's work, those who deal with Evil, misery, madness, desperation, anger, bitterness, etc' - really outnumber the spreading positivity ones. I agree. I wasn't thinking of positivity in terms of the lyrics. Strip off the vocal track, and you're left with some pretty complex, cosmic music. The awareness or spiritual maturity or whatever you want to call it that is evident in the music is, in itself, it's own message. There's the lyrics, and there's the wave that carries it. Also, lyrical honesty is a mind-opening thing, even if the subject is not cheerful. Enjoyed your post-much food for thought. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 21:57:34 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: success After suggesting gently for years, I get this email today from a friend in Mexico about his teen age daughter: "Daniela is the onstage guitarist and singer in an experimental play downtown (among others, she does the Joni Mitchell song that has the line "I could drink a case of you....)." Always good when a seed many times planted spouts! Vince Muskegon: my once and new home http://www.ci.muskegon.mi.us/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 21:07:43 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Thankful Again HI EVERYBODY! I am so dreadfully behind on the list and in my everyday life, but you are on my mind and heart and I am so thankful for you all. We are celebrating Thanksgiving today cause we went to friends house yesterday for dinner and it was really nice, but it was not our home Thanksgiving which I love so much. I cooked a big dinner tonight and we had some close friends over to have my traditional dinner. The kids were happy with our menu and our own traditions that mean so much now and in their future. I did not write since I came back from Detroit, but I wanted to thank everyone for their support of phone calls, emails, and all. God Bless Sue C. who drove 3 hours to have dinner with me (and then also made me let her pay for it!!!). What a darling! We had a wonderful time and it was so great to be able to get together with someone I love in the land of my birth during a troubled time with my brother so sick. He really rallied while I was there and I am glad I went. He has a long hard battle ahead of him and I will probably have to go back while he does the chemo. Special thanks to Gary Zack who I did not get to see, but who called me several times to check up on me, but circumstance did not let us get together to share some music and talk. It's times like these when I am truly grateful for my special friends in life and the special music as well. While I was writing this I have been listening to some Joni on the Itunes. I wish you all a safe and happy holiday. I hope we can all find a way to let go of the angst of the current political situation. More than anything I wish tolerance amongst us all for the thread that binds us all together. The thread is actually a weave of peace and Joni's music as well as so many other artists. Please lets let dead dawgs lie and try to appreciate our differences and express ourselves without condemning some else for theirs. Be well all of you! Love Paz NP-Desert Rose-Eric Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 08:02 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: steph@cix.co.uk (Anita Gabrielle Tedder) Subject: Sharing some success after misery Dear All I am still receiving such kind mail - it has been so affirming. Just to let you know that our friend Tom in the village said he thought he knew one of the lads and that he had a routine of going to the pub on Friday nights at around 6.30. He offered to watch out and ring us if this lad went by and would follow him whilst we got out with our camera and photographed him. Well - it was him with a girl and when he saw the camera he freaked and started to run but I got my shot. Steph told him we just wanted to talk to him and eventually he did. I had to take the camera back to the house - but we did talk with him. He was threatening at first - saying we ain't seen nothing yet and how dare I call him abusive after I'd abused him by calling him a coward!!!! Anyway it wasn't easy, but he wasn't such a big man on his own and we told him we wouldn't do anymore if he stopped the abuse and threats. He didn't seem to want to listen much, but Tom came over and told him that what it did was just not on which seemed to help because he listened to Tom much better than us. The police came about 10.00pm and I have made a statement and they were SO NICE. I couldn't believe it and they were really affirming our right to not be abused. I was amazed. The woman officer really smiled when she asked my height and I said 5foot 2 and that the lad was around 5 10 and that she about 17 and I was 50 and that we'd both been running all round the village after them! When I heard myself saying it I thought it sounded quite funny really! So I think I am regaining my peace and, once again, thank you all so much for helping that process. I think Joni would be really pleased that her music has brought people together who can then offer such support to others in their struggle to find their way. I think we are stardust and golden, With love bursting out and no more rage Anita xx ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #338 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)