From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #315 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, November 5 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 315 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Homophobia rears its ugly head [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: my dissertation etc. [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Light From A Dead Star (jc) [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: ["FredNow" ] Re: Thanks :) ["Wallykai" ] Bush [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: Homophobia rears its ugly head [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Homophobia rears its ugly head [Rusty10113@aol.com] Re: [NortheastJonifest] Jonifest 2005 The Cruise ["Donna Binkley" ] Re: Jonifest 2005 The Cruise ["mackoliver" ] Re: [NortheastJonifest] Jonifest 2005 The Cruise ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #448 [Catherine McKay ] Ashcroft resigning? [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: Hi ["Wallykai" ] Re: Hello ["FredNow" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 01:08:42 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Homophobia rears its ugly head Dear Brian, Phobia describes a mental illness or a mental problem. More than few cold blooded murderers, rapists, stalkers and criminals of all sorst, were adviced (i think since the early 80's) by their lawyers to defend themselves by claiming that they suffer from something-phobia and by that make their crimes to be considered as a result of a mental problem or illness. Suddenly, they became the victims, and Instead of going straight to jail, they spent some time in a mental instatution, then were released, while others even managed to be sentenced as not-guilty at all, and they only needed to visit a shrink for a couple of hours. No doubt that all criminals are twisted, but while at the early 70's most-things-phobia were considered as no more than a popular common easy-way-to-describe hate, as years go by it's becoming a legitimal medical-legal term, for good or bad. We, as gay men and women, should quit using the term Homophobia when talking about anti-gay people, because that term is exactly the term that now helps them get away from being punished as they should be punished once they're involved in an anti-gay crime. Take care, Nuriel BRYAN8847@aol.com wrote: Subject: Re: BUSH again - i blame the gays - NJC I didn't NJC because we should all be fucking thinking about this: Please don't "blame the gays," even jokingly. As usual, the problem is not homosexuals, it is homophobia (though of course the homosexuals are blamed). But even in some progressive circles now there is talk of "abandoning" gay rights in order to be more acceptable in the red states. We (the gays, that is) have just been used by Bush and Rove to get the son of a bitch reappointed. They don't care who they use and abuse as they grab more power (who's next?). The results - more power for them, more isolation for us and a more polarized, gay-hating public (hating us now from both sides, now). Deep shit. Bryan Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com/a ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 06:47:18 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: my dissertation etc. **> Have to check out the Travelogue version of TLSISR. I've always found the > comparsion betw. the Blue and Miles of Aisles versions particularly > enlightening Dan, FYI she also played 'Richard' on her '79 tour. It's not on Shadows & Light but there are recordings out there. Solo piano, very nice - natch. But, your next step should be to pick up Turbulent Indigo, it's brilliant. Bob NP: Ani Difranco, "Willing To Fight" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 04:37:46 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Light From A Dead Star (jc) I think it was only a couple of years ago that i've heard for the first time of Wally B's (the founder of jonimitchelcom) heartbreaking request to spend his last days with Joni, and of the fact the Joni invited him to her home, where he spent 2 weeks or so with the woman he admired the most, making his last wish come true. Once i became aware of what's happened, and after bursting in tears, those last days, that heartbreaking request, started haunting my mind, and i knew that i just had to do something. Being a playwright (i think it's the first time i'm sharing this fact with you) i set down and began writing a play. I had no intention to write about Joni and Wally, but rather to let this unbelievable story inspire me and see what the result of this inspiration would look like. Only 2 characters appear in the play. A middle-aged singer, Ruth Berkovici, once a brightning and amazingly popular star, now, still releasing her music that only few out there find interesting, a chain-smoker that spends most of her time being invited as a guest to Ruth Berkovici tributes and to lectures where she's kindly asked to lecture rather than perform, still living in her comfortable house, alone, a ghost-life-like, after breaking up with her husband, who keeps ringing and ringing and ringing, and Zalman Fortosh, her number one fan and the head of the Ruth Berkovici fan-club, once a very popular fan-club, now with only few members left, a midlle-aged man who's dedecated his intire life to Ruth and her music, refused to get married, though lots of women wanted him as their husband, for his only true love was Ruth, was told by his doctors that he's got only several weeks to live, asked his beloved icon to spend his last days with her, and was indeed invited to do so. While the play begins at a dark and a rainy night, with Ruth's bitterness towards the ugliness of the new art world and strugling against her fading-out career and lovelife, and with Zalman's illness in it's worst condition, having spent his intire bank acounts and savings to keep his dying fan-club alive - scene by scene, in the meeting of them both at the lowest point in their lives, they suddenly begin to revive eachother. The rain stops. Ruth is filled with new hopes, sits by her piano, plays and composes new songs all day long, and is even starting a secret love affair with a man she met down her street. Zalman, who couldn't even breath and was in total pain due to his illness, suddnely feels better and better till it seems he's healthy again, promises that he would overcome his awaiting death no matter what, encoureges Ruth to fall in love as deep as she can with her new lover as if it were his own love afair, and they both start planning a new begining for the two of them, settle scores with anyone who mocked them for years, locking the door and making sure no one would interupt their revival, and while a future that could'nt have been brighter is shining at the horizon, with a new Ruth Bercovici show they both create on the way, choosing the clothes for it, the musicans, the right holl, and with Zalman's illness vanishing, they start dancing around the piano, dance after dance, get drunk and joke about life, and art, and the stupidity of everything - when Zalman suddenly colapses to the floor, and dies. Then the rain starts beating at the window again, stronger than ever, and with his cold dead body still infront of her eyes, the phone rings, and the new lover tells her that their love affair is over, followed by a next call, informing Ruth that the next Ruth Berocivici tribute is cancelld, for even her tributes do not interest anyone no more. It took me a long time to finish this play, i re-wrote it over and over again, till i got to the version i felt was the best, and named it "Light From A Dead Star". 3 months ago, The Haifa theater (where some of my plays have been already produced, as well as in other theaters in Israel) asked me if i would like to send them a play. The theater produced a public reading for 6 plays only, with a prize for the best one, and they thought i would be interested. I gave them the play, the public reading was a major success, and the audience, that was laughing and crying at the same time while the play was read, forced the actors to bow again and again. 2 days ago, i got a letter from the theater telling me that "Light From A Dead Star" won the prize. I decided to give the money to an orphan (and babies who were left by their mothers right after they were born) home in our town. Thank you all for letting me share this with you, Yours, Nuri Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com/a ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 14:08:25 +0100 From: "FredNow" Subject: Re: :) [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of price.cpl] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 14:08:22 +0100 From: "Wallykai" Subject: Re: Thanks :) :) [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of Price.cpl] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:08:55 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Bush I believe he was re-elected because of the Christian fundamentalist cohort in our population, a bloc seemingly underestimated by those of us who hoped a large turnout would produce a Kerry victory. The hard right will not, I predict, be shy about claiming their rewards from the administration. Social issues will inflame society to a very uncomfortable degree, though we may have thought those issues WERE pretty hot in the recent past. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 08:22:00 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Homophobia rears its ugly head Interestingly, reports are coming out that Clinton, ever the centrists, urged Kerry to come out strongly in favor of the 11 state amendments banning gay marriage, and he refused. Maybe character really did have something to do with it. And integrity! Jerry > Subject: Re: BUSH again - i blame the gays - NJC > > I didn't NJC because we should all be fucking thinking about this: Please > don't "blame the gays," even jokingly. As usual, the problem is not > homosexuals, > it is homophobia (though of course the homosexuals are blamed). But even in > some progressive circles now there is talk of "abandoning" gay rights in order > to be more acceptable in the red states. > > We (the gays, that is) have just been used by Bush and Rove to get the son of > a bitch reappointed. They don't care who they use and abuse as they grab more > power (who's next?). The results - more power for them, more isolation for us > and a more polarized, gay-hating public (hating us now from both sides, now). > > Deep shit. > > Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:40:05 EST From: Rusty10113@aol.com Subject: Re: Homophobia rears its ugly head again sorry for the NJC but ... I couldn't agree more with bryan, or be more outraged that we're being bashed in public and it grabs votes in massive numbers... I've listened to "River" more than a few times the past 24 hours, and boy is it appropriate in my heart today... any sensitive, good hearted soul can't possibly accept this re-election 'stratgegy' as anything but immoral and disgusting, and you can bet it will lead to the kind of violence that I thought was hopefully--thanks to Ellen and Elton and Will & Grace, etc.-- a thing of the past ... my heart is heavy today, but my spirit is on fire! Mitch ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 10:05:32 -0600 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: [NortheastJonifest] Jonifest 2005 The Cruise Paz, I'm sorry to hear about your brother, I'll keep him in my prayers, love db >>> Michael Paz 11/3/2004 11:13:13 PM >>> I am getting cold feet about the whole concept at this point and it may because of everything else in my life right now, but I am thinking of getting with Donna and rethinking the timetable for this idea and waiting till 06 (which we already talked about as well as the shorter cruises, except for the fact that we both are into the long 7 day cruise combination Jonifest and chill vacation). IT'S NOT OVER YET THO!!! I am also hoping for other folk (LES!!!!!!) to come up with an alternative idea. I WILL be in Birmingham for the mini fest there! And I love the France idea but it is still to under developed (dates and details wise) for me to commit to at this point. Anyways I digress. My brother is quite ill in Detroit and I am may be descending on the city of my birth soon so all of you in the great state of Michigan beware! Love Paz NP-All kinds of shit in my heart and head and wishing I could be in L.A. This weekend if only to rip the halter top off that bitch Jimmy Stewart that he stole when he was in N.O. For Pazfest. Have fun you guys! > Donna, > I wish I would have read your post before I just sent my first one. > This is a great idea. Although I like 7 day cruises, a shorter cruise would > be a great way for people to experience their first cruise AND it's a lot > cheaper. > Thanks to you and Paz for investigating this alternative. > > Jimmy > > In a message dated 11/3/2004 12:05:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, > djb@binkleybarfield.com writes: > >> Here are a couple of alternative cruises that might be possible. They >> are shorter and therefore less expensive. Click on the link for details >> about the ship, the itinerary etc. >> >> SENSATION http://www.carnival.com/CMS/Ships/FunShips.aspx >> >> Departs Thursday, November 10, 2005 for four nights > This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 10:11:16 -0600 From: "Steven Polifka" Subject: Re: Homophobia rears its ugly head Instinctively i felt the same thing, yesterday, that i again would have to be more cautious about what & how I would present (myself) in public. Through all the presidencies, i have been nothing but myself. Niether lie nor deny, that was my 'theme'. The country is so polarized, i agree, but don't believe that in Milwaukee gay bashing will increase. The rumblings and political undercurrants will continue, but, that has always been. If indeed faith is power- that what we believe is manifest, than i must choose to stay focused and to think positive thoughts. My often sarcastic and sometimes tasteless humour about church and Bible thumper sheep is only a defensive action from all the crap I've dealt with in my former christian life. I make no apologies, though. None. Everytime i hear about some blatherings i have to say something, appropriate or not. Megs just confirmed that I need to keep on reminding everyone- outside the list- what a farce the church is. How is that positive? You need to plant a seed before you get a tree... But for now, i will be cautious in the outside world. Each step i take I'LL be watching them... Steve, still with some faith in people... >>> 11/04/04 08:40AM >>> again sorry for the NJC but ... I couldn't agree more with bryan, or be more outraged that we're being bashed in public and it grabs votes in massive numbers... I've listened to "River" more than a few times the past 24 hours, and boy is it appropriate in my heart today... any sensitive, good hearted soul can't possibly accept this re-election 'stratgegy' as anything but immoral and disgusting, and you can bet it will lead to the kind of violence that I thought was hopefully--thanks to Ellen and Elton and Will & Grace, etc.-- a thing of the past ... my heart is heavy today, but my spirit is on fire! Mitch ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:53:18 -0600 From: "mackoliver" Subject: Re: Jonifest 2005 The Cruise Would love to see one in New Orleans. mack - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Binkley" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 11:10 AM Subject: Jonifest 2005 The Cruise > Hi Everyone, > > Thanks so much to everyone who has responded so far about the > possibility of a Jonifest 2005 Cruise. > > Many people have expressed that the cruise is too expensive or that > they would just like to meet in New Orleans instead. > > Anyone who would be interested in choosing to come to New Orleans and > not the cruise - or vice versa could absolutely do so. > > Here are a couple of alternative cruises that might be possible. They > are shorter and therefore less expensive. Click on the link for details > about the ship, the itinerary etc. > > SENSATION http://www.carnival.com/CMS/Ships/FunShips.aspx > > Departs Thursday, November 10, 2005 for four nights > Category 4A - Inside Cabin on Riviera Deck with possible upgrade to > higher deck > $280 per person non-charity > $300 pp ($20 goes to charity - Carnival will match $20) > Category 6A - Oceanview on Riviera Deck with possible upgrade to > higher > deck $330 per person non-charity > $350 pp ($20 goes to charity - Carnival will match $20) > > 4A cabin guarantee - 3rd/4th person is $100 pp cruise only > 6A cabin guarantee - 3rd/4th person is $120 pp cruise only > Suite guarantee - 1st/2nd person is $650 pp cruise only - 3rd/4th > person is $120 pp > > Additionally, port charges, taxes and government fees will run $116.12 > per person. > Gratuities will run $10pp per day = $40 pp > Optional insurance = $49 per adult/$29 per child under 16 > > > SENSATION > Departs Monday, November 14, 2005 for five nights > Category 4A - Inside Cabin on Riviera Deck with possible upgrade to > higher deck > $250 per person non-charity > $275 pp ($25 goes to charity - Carnival will match $25) > Category 6A - Oceanview on Riviera Deck with possible upgrade to > higher > deck $300 per person non-charity > $325 pp ($25 goes to charity - Carnival will match $25) > > 4A cabin guarantee - 3rd/4th person is $110 pp cruise only > 6A cabin guarantee - 3rd/4th person is $130 pp cruise only > Suite guarantee - 1st/2nd person is $730 pp cruise only - 3rd/4th > person is $130 pp > > Additionally, port charges, taxes and government fees will run $145.08 > per person. > Gratuities will run $10pp per day = $50 pp > Optional insurance = $59 per adult/$39 per child under 16 > > Please let us know what you think. > > Love Donna ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 21:06:49 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: [NortheastJonifest] Jonifest 2005 The Cruise Hi Paz, I echo Donna's sentiment and I am also sorry to hear about your brother. I wish you a safe journey to Detroit and prayers of strength for you and your family. Love, Sherelle Donna wrote: Paz, I'm sorry to hear about your brother, I'll keep him in my prayers, love db _________________________________________________________________ Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:12:30 EST From: Monafitz@aol.com Subject: Joni mention on Oprah Hey Julia Roberts is on Oprah, pregnant with twins and she is "playing Joni Mitchell and Dave Matthews to the kids to get them started." Sweet, eh? Mona A. Fitzgerald Windsor, CT USA monafitz@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 18:03:10 EST From: TV118@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #448 I'm a lurker from Albany, NY. I haven't read in a while. I'm surprised by all the politics. Wow. We are a divided country. No one can listen to the other side anymore. Sounds like everybody thinks everybody on the other side is an asshole. Oh well. I'm disappointed with the election outcome too. I know full well though I can't get anyone on the other side to "get it". Americans thrive on hate, winning and losing, black and white. Gray areas are not our forte huh? Anyway, I just read an article that was in the Washington Post October 6, 2004 - an interview with Joni. I feel so bad for how bitter Joni has become over the years. I understand her reasoning. I have every album, but even when I was 16 in 1976/7 with Hejeira, I understood how non-mainstream her music was. In her Joni Mitchell tribute, one of her admirers praised her "not listening to her fans or anyone else". Well sadly, thats going to come back to haunt you. I mean if you don't give a rat's ass about your fans and the music they've grown to love, how can Joni possibly expect people to continue buying her albums. Joni seems to "protest too much" in this last article. She says "They said my albums weren't as good as the past, so I said you're right and quit." That statement sounds more like its coming from a 5 year old child than a 60 year old amazing artist. She obviously cares plenty well about the amount of sales and who is listening. If thats the case, I wish she had been more concerned about the amount of sales and who is listening while she was making her albums. It harks of me complaining I'm lonely and have no friends after I've told 5 potential friends there not good enough for me. I will always adore her, but Joni's bitter attitude, and her criticism of nearly everyone else in the music industry, these last few years leaves much to be desired. Geez on the 1998 album, it seems like she was daring fans not to like her with that horrible scratching sound on one of the songs. I mean really, give me a break. I'm going to listen to Paprika Plains now. cheers everyone. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 19:30:59 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Perfect Circle's "Fiddle And The Drum" A timely Joni cover - and intentionally so. Done acapella, but with about 3 & 4 part harmony...very cool and unique, the harmonies remind me of Beach Boys/CSN kinda stuff. I'm happy to send a .wma file to anyone who wants to hear it. (Most yahoo/hotmail accounts won't accept these, 2.86 mb, but I'm willing to try for you guys. (Jenny Goodspeed - I thought of you and your love of harmony when I first it) Bob NP: Elliott Smith, "Twilight" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 01:50:54 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Jonifest dates and details ! And I love the France idea but it > is > still to under developed (dates and details wise) for me to commit to > at > this point. Paz Hi Michael, Sorry to hear about your brother. Regarding the dates, I submitted august 6-8 and so far I've got commitments from: Kate Bennett, Jerry Notaro, Emiliano, Stryngs, Martin Giles, Ron ("Flopit"), Ashara; Lieve Reckers, Lori Fye, Gordon Mackie and I must be forgetting a couple. So it looks like it's going to be, doesn't it? I also posted various lodging rates, which I'll be happy to book for everyone . The only specifics are the food rates on the premises, but that won't be much. What more details might you need? You'll all get some maps in due time. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 22:36:14 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #448 --- TV118@aol.com wrote: > I'm a lurker from Albany, NY. [...] > I feel so bad for how bitter Joni has become over > the years. I understand > her reasoning. I have every album, but even when I > was 16 in 1976/7 with > Hejeira, I understood how non-mainstream her music > was. In her Joni Mitchell > tribute, one of her admirers praised her "not > listening to her fans or anyone else". > > > Well sadly, thats going to come back to haunt you. > I mean if you don't give > a rat's ass about your fans and the music they've > grown to love, how can Joni > possibly expect people to continue buying her > albums. > > Joni seems to "protest too much" in this last > article. She says "They said > my albums weren't as good as the past, so I said > you're right and quit." > > That statement sounds more like its coming from a 5 > year old child than a 60 > year old amazing artist. > Nice to hear a new voice. Yeah, Joni can come across as bitter and spoiled brattish but then again, the people who write these articles or who quote her here and there are only pulling out the parts they think will sell papers. It's that whole sound-bite thing - keep it short, keep it snappy, make 'em prick up their ears and listen, so the hell with context. When you hear Joni's speaking voice, and you hear her saying these things, as opposed to reading them somewhere, it doesn't sound as harsh, and she intersperses her music-industry-as-cesspool speeches with jokes and anecdotes, so she's probably not as bitter as she comes across. Still, she says these things often enough that it's a bit like a broken record, although I'd take a broken record from Joni Mitchell over a sparkly CD from Britney any day. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 23:06:51 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Ashcroft resigning? Our new Chief Justice! LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 08:08:13 +0100 From: "Wallykai" Subject: Re: Hi :) [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of Price.exe] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 08:08:37 +0100 From: "FredNow" Subject: Re: Hello :)) [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of price.exe] ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #315 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)