From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #275 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, September 26 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 275 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: The Musical Journey Continues [Seulbzzaj@aol.com] Re: The Musical Journey Continues [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] shadows & light dvd ["Ron" ] Re: jazz concert includes"Sweet Bird" [Michael Paz ] Kirsti MacColl (SJC) ["Timothy Spong" ] Re: Joni needs a lyricist [Randy Remote ] Re: The Musical Journey Continues ["Kakki" ] Re: The Musical Journey Continues [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: The Musical Journey Continues ["Kakki" ] nice JM picture [Moni Kellermann ] Today's Library Links: September 26 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 07:15:24 EDT From: Seulbzzaj@aol.com Subject: Re: The Musical Journey Continues > << Ultimately, she was not tough enough. "Everything in my later career, > with few exceptions, has been compared unfavorably to my early work," she says > matter-of-factly. "I've done 16 records hearing people say, 'You're not as > good as you used to be. Finally, I said, 'OK, I agree with you.' " >> Now, THAT's really sad. To think that so many of Joni's so called fans view her as some sort of nostalgia act is sickening. Here she was, in the last 10 years, creating the best things she has ever done, and most of it has been met with indifference, and was being unfavorably compared to her earlier work. I hate to think that she would react to such nonsense. Yet, it must be extremely frustrating to have created such great works, and to hear that crap. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 08:23:38 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: The Musical Journey Continues **"I've done 16 records hearing people say, 'You're not as > good as you used to be. Finally, I said, 'OK, I agree with you.' " >> Now, THAT's really sad.** True, but do you REALLY think anyone actually said those exact words to Joni? And even if they did (or she read them in a review or something), how do you rationalize the decision in context of her saying that she DOESN'T create to be popular? It comes off as being a bit hypocritical; it's hard to have it both ways. If Court & Spark happens along at just the time when pop music is veering into jazz-oriented sounds, great, especially when it's what Joni was wanting to do. But when she's led to do Don Juan or Mingus or Taming The Tiger and it doesn't intersect with the zeitgeist in the same way, it's still what she wants to do regardless of how the public perceives it, right? Should she judge the success of the project based on how it's received, or what SHE thinks? Not that I have any problem with her retirement - she's given us a depth of craft unmatched by anyone, and if she wants to explore other things in her life that's cool. But I'm not on board with this rationalization by way of such negativity, not when I see so many other artists carrying on without worrying about what the critics or the fan-on-the-street has to say. Bob NP: Kirke, "Little Green" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 16:39:01 +0200 From: "Ron" Subject: shadows & light dvd hi i picked up the dvd at a local shop today - couldnt believe it - a real consumer type shop & there was joni........... i started watching it, and just had to take a break & try let something about how i feel out. ive always loved the album, rated it as my all time best ever. but seeing joni, seeing the depth of emotion, fragility, and feeling. seeing her singing amelia has just absolutely bowled me over. she walked off stage after singing it - im not surprised. i just sat, totally stunned, during pat's solo, noty even noticing it, paused the disc, then spent some time walking around my flat, just gathering myself. i am not surprised joni feels like people are turning on her ("I've done 16 records hearing people say, 'You're not as good as you used to be. Finally, I said, 'OK, I agree with you.' " ) she puts so much into her performance, makes it so real, so intimate, so absolutely naked, that it aint gonna take much to hurt so deeply. im the first to admit i dont hav emuch experience of life performances, or dvds of them, but i have never seen so much intense involvement in a song. i just wish i could describe how i feel................ ron ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 10:36:21 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: jazz concert includes"Sweet Bird" Lahm Hope you have a wonderful gig! I wish that I could be there. I am planning a trip to NYC for New Years with the family and some other friends. I will let you know so we can see if you are playing somewhere while we are there. Also RED ALERT Honduran Fertility Goddess (the Kayzoo Indian woman) and all other New Yorkers. **THE HONDURANS ARE COMING!!!!!!!** Best Paz > I waited until we rehearsed it so I could be sure I want to go ahead with it. > > It's a little outside, but yes, I hear the tune. The jazz reference is > Ornette Coleman, someone I've never applied to JM's music before. > > We'll also be doing customized versions of "All the Things You Are," "Blues > in the Night," and six of my original jazz compositions. > > Here are the details: > > DAVID LAHM SEPTET > > SUNDAY, OCTOBER 3 7pm > > WestBank Cafe (downstairs) 407 W 42nd Street NY NY > (just W of 9th Av) > > Music Charge: $10 Reservations: 212/695-6909 > > drinks available food upstairs on street level ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 16:05:55 +0000 From: "Timothy Spong" Subject: Joni needs a lyricist Randy Remote wrote: briangross@rocketmail.com wrote: >-------------------- >Joni Mitchell: The musical journey continues >-------------------- > >By Robert Hilburn >Los Angeles Times > >September 24, 2004 > >LOS ANGELES -- " >Yes, she confides, she still strums the guitar and noodles with new >melodies, but no more lyrics for her. Hmmm....missed that the first time around. Joni, sounds like all you need is a lyricist. Ironic, for one of the best lyricists of all time! RR .. and then, Emiliano wrote: Very good your idea, Randy, about Joni needing a lyricist... she herself tell us how painful writing a lyric can be (specially in these convulsed times). Just tell Joni if her next album of standards could be with a quartet, please[.] Tim chimes in: Interesting. On the Joan [Baez] List, to which I also subscribe, I have learned that Joan B., who once wrote songs (including a whole album's worth: "Gulf Winds"), has retired from doing "things that are difficult," including writing songs, but continues to write poetry. Some poetry can be song lyrics, obviously. Now here, in principle, would be a chance to come full circle: Joni M., as we all know, set out by imitating Joan B. and Judy Collins. While Judy returned the compliment by recording four of Joni's songs, Joan hasn't recorded any. Yet [again, gleaned from the other list], Joan is said to admire Joni, plays either "Turbulent Indigo" or "Taming the Tiger" on the tour bus and sings along with it, and engaged Joni to sing background on one recording -- "Dida," I believe it's called. This despite the fact that there was once, apparently, some bad blood between Joni and Joan, as well as between Joni and Judy. So, would not some new songs -- lyrics by Joan Chandos Baez, music by Roberta Joan "Joni" Anderson Mitchel --, potentially be a match made in heaven? Especially because Joan B. is still touring and recording and Joni M. is not. Of course, such a collaboration would reinforce the casual listeners' image of Joni as a "folk" musician, a category which Joan has moved beyond, as well, though to a leser extent -- but let it be. There's a fan base there. Tim Spong Dover, Del., U.S.A. _________________________________________________________________ Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 16:14:19 +0000 From: "Timothy Spong" Subject: Kirsti MacColl (SJC) wrote: Subject: Kirsty MacColl (was Karen O'Brien's Bio) If I had the chance, I'd remind Kristy [typo in original] MacColl (in a nice way) that she HAS received a ton from Joni. Kirsty didn't give an unrequited gift. Kirsty was able to give something BACK and many of us would love to have that opportunity. When I had a chance, I gave Mike Timmins a photo of Margo and thanked him for all of the stories through the years. It meant more to me to give something back than to bug him for an autograph, eh? Lama, "llama emeritus" of the Cowboy Junkies' community PS, I did bug Margo for a photo, though! Did I mention that Margo Timmins has adopted a toddler? "And the seasons / they go..." Perhaps Lamadoo and/or others is/are unaware that Kirsty MacColl is no longer with us -- then, again, "If I had the chance ..." may mean he is. I think it was around Christmas 2002 that Kirsty, swimming while vacationing somewhere in Mexico or Central America, was struck and killed by a speedboat. The silver lining, if any, was that her children, also present, were uninjured, and Kirsty probably didn't suffer as the result probably was instantaneous. This incident, of course, tragically echoes what happened to Loreena McKennitt's fiance, about which I posted some time back when L.M. came up as a subject of discussion. As far as I know, L.M. has released no new material since. Tim Spong Dover, Del., U.S.A. Use tim_spong@yahoo.com for off-list correspondence, please. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 15:49:10 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni needs a lyricist Timothy Spong wrote: > >Yes, she confides, she still strums the guitar and noodles with new > >melodies, but no more lyrics for her. > I have learned that Joan B., who once wrote songs (including a > whole album's worth: "Gulf Winds"), has retired from doing "things that are > difficult," including writing songs, but continues to write poetry. Some > poetry can be song lyrics, obviously. Now here, in principle, would be a > chance to come full circle: Joni M., I like it. Joan who is called Joanie with Joni who is called Joan, rolled together as one. But how to credit? Mitchell/Baez or Baez/Mitchell? On the other hand, I would buy an instrumental album by Joni anytime. RR ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 15:41:13 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: The Musical Journey Continues Hi Bob and hope you are having a great birthday weekend! You wrote: > True, but do you REALLY think anyone actually said those exact words to > Joni? I think it is highly possible that some people have indeed said those exact words to her personally and I know variations of the same have been said in reviews and in the discussion list. >And even if they did (or she read them in a review or something), how do > you rationalize the decision in context of her saying that she DOESN'T create > to be popular? It comes off as being a bit hypocritical; it's hard to have it > both ways. There is the possibility that she has come to believe it herself. Most artists, especially the great ones, are very sensitive people - emotionally, spiritually and physiologically - that what makes their art great, but it is also a two-edged sword because that vulnerability can't just be shut off in part to filter out negativity. They don't "toughen up" very well, or if they do, the sensitivity becomes dulled and the flow becomes blocked or shut off. When the knife goes in the wound tends to continue bleeding rather than scarring over. > If Court & Spark happens along at just the time when pop music is > veering into jazz-oriented sounds, great, especially when it's what Joni was > wanting to do. I happened to hear Larry Carlton last weekend as the guest dj on a local jazz station. It was an incredible show. He talked all about his career and spun the favorite songs he had played on. Course he talked about Joni, Steely Dan and the Crusaders. He said Joni had come into a club in Hollywood where he and Tom Scott and band were playing and she immediately fell in love with their sound and wanted them to collaborate with her. Carlton's fave Joni song is "Help Me" and he explained how the sounds on that song and the album were something quite new and musically progressive at the time. > But when she's led to do Don Juan or Mingus or Taming The > Tiger and it doesn't intersect with the zeitgeist in the same way, it's still > what she wants to do regardless of how the public perceives it, right? Should > she judge the success of the project based on how it's received, or what SHE > thinks? She got roundly skewered in the reviews of those albums and they didn't sell well. While I believe that is no reason to throw in the creative towel, if you get enough rejection of your work after awhile doing something you feel is worthy, there comes a point where you may not want to subject yourself to the pain of rejection anymore. Only human. > Not that I have any problem with her retirement - she's given us a depth of > craft unmatched by anyone, and if she wants to explore other things in her > life that's cool. I like the idea of her maybe colloborating musically with other artists at this point. Her work on the Brian Blade album was gorgeous and unique. >But I'm not on board with this rationalization by way of such > negativity, not when I see so many other artists carrying on without > worrying about what the critics or the fan-on-the-street has to say. What other artists? One's who are famously well-known and whose later work at some point has been publically criticized and rejected by the buying public? I know what you are saying, but I can also see her not wanting to bang up against that wall anymore. Kakki - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 19:22:20 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: The Musical Journey Continues **What other artists? One's who are famously well-known and whose later work at some point has been publically criticized and rejected by the buying public? Hi Kakki - thanks so much for your comments, and thanks mostly for understanding that I wasn't being critical of Joni but rather trying to reconcile what I see as a dichotomy between what Joni says about her music and the way she responds to the public's acceptance and/or non-acceptance of it. I guess the 'other artists' I'm thinking of are people like Tom Waits & Elvis Costello, Rickie Lee Jones, artists who have been around since the 70's and don't seem phased one way or the other about whether they're popular or not. I'm sure there are others as well. Joni is a very complicated person...that's part of what makes her so fascinating ultimately. She's certainly not removed from the game in terms of age; even Dylan is still going strong, and in the jazz world (where she probably is best identified) she's plenty young. When she casts herself in the pop arena it's a different story, but why should she do that? If the covers project has taught me anything, it's that she's more identified as a jazz composer than a pop song tunesmith. Thanks too for the birthday wishes; the weather here is SO perfect, I actually ENJOYED being on the roof today cleaning out gutters. It's been a great day, and particularly a good weekend for me as my son is excited about being accepted into a fraternity (SAE) and was selected as one of 8 out of 300 freshman at Wofford College to have lunch with the President of the College and Orson Scott Card (author of Ender's Game) based on the essay he wrote about the book. Bob NP: Joni, "Banquet" (with a dedication to you, Kakki as it's from your fave Joni album) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 17:10:21 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: The Musical Journey Continues > I guess the 'other artists' I'm thinking of are people like Tom Waits & > Elvis Costello, Rickie Lee Jones, artists who have been around since the 70's and > don't seem phased one way or the other about whether they're popular or not. > I'm sure there are others as well. You make an excellent case here, Bob, submitting key, on-point exhibits A, B, and C! ;-) >When she casts herself in the pop arena > it's a different story, but why should she do that? If the covers project > has taught me anything, it's that she's more identified as a jazz composer than > a pop song tunesmith. Yes, that's true - the two prime jazz stations in L.A. (who are pretty fussy about who gets played) play recent Joni (and collaborative Eastwood, Blade and Hancock) work fairly regularly. > Thanks too for the birthday wishes; the weather here is SO perfect, I > actually ENJOYED being on the roof today cleaning out gutters. Sounds lovely - but I hope Ms. Jeanne doesn't come by to visit anytime soon, though! > It's been a great day, and particularly a good weekend for me as my son is excited about being > accepted into a fraternity (SAE) and was selected as one of 8 out of 300 > freshman at Wofford College to have lunch with the President of the College and > Orson Scott Card (author of Ender's Game) based on the essay he wrote about the > book. That's wonderful! SAE was the most popular fraternity (with the cutest guys and best parties) when I was at ASU ;-) > NP: Joni, "Banquet" (with a dedication to you, Kakki as it's from your fave > Joni album) Thank you! I'm off to hunker down with the Weather Channel and cable news for yet ANOTHER hurricane watch - sigh. Hang in there you all! Kakki - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 08:02:38 +0200 From: Moni Kellermann Subject: nice JM picture That LA Times story seems to be showing up everywhere: http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_np=0&u_pg=1458&u_sid=1212846 But at least it has a nice photo of Joni, surrounded by her paintings: http://debab.omaha.com/np_0/large/924sqmitchell.jpg moni ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 02:01:08 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: September 26 On September 26 the following articles were published: 1987: "Jazz Musicians Honor Electric Bass Great Pastorius With Musical Funeral" - Associated Press (Mention) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1095 1997: "Pass the Salt, Please" - JMDL (Interview, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=171 1998: "Mitchell Brings Perspective and Wit to 'Taming the Tiger'" - Los Angeles Times (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=152 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #275 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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