From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #214 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, July 28 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 214 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: "Joni just can't seem to do anything right these days" ["Azeem" ] Re: Hejira is the greatest thing ever... [Randy Remote ] RE: "Joni just can't seem to do anything right these days" [Lori Fye ] Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) [Lori Fye ] Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) [Randy Remote ] Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Hejira is the greatest thing ever... ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Hejira is the greatest thing ever... [Dflahm@aol.com] RE: "Joni just can't seem to do anything right these days" ["Victor Johns] Today's Library Links: July 28 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: Hejira is the greatest thing ever ever ever ever evvaah ["Ross, Les" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 02:36:31 +0100 From: "Azeem" Subject: RE: "Joni just can't seem to do anything right these days" Lori wrote: << If you read a lot of the stuff that was posted to this list at the time of BSN's release, though, you would have thought Joni had just stuck a pile of dogshit in a hatbox and put it on the market.>> Being glib, I think that's a pretty good description. And yes, I know I'm going straight to hell for that... << I'm still trying to figure out exactly makes us think we're qualified to 'dis' Joni's work >> My response is that nothing qualifies me either to praise *or* criticise Joni's work, other than being a human being who loves music. I don't *need* any qualification to do it. This list is for people who are into Joni's music as a whole, and lord knows I am. I really don't understand why people get so upset when someone voices an opinion unfavourable to Joni. Come on, tell us why you love it, please - and please don't imply that we "shouldn't" express strong dislike if that is what we feel. Azeem - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.713 / Virus Database: 469 - Release Date: 30/06/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 20:37:22 -0500 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: Re: Hejira is the greatest thing ever... <> I'm with you, Jerry; I also can never get enough of FTR. The lyrics and the music are equally astounding. Although Hejira also has incredibly profound lyrics, the music itself works well enough for background music while doing chores, housework, etc,. It has a comforting steady rhythm, but lacks the dynamics and musical playfulness that are found on its sister album DJRD. FTR demands one's full attention. There's just so much to discover musically on FTR with each listening session. If I can't continually find new discoveries in a musical piece, I usually tire of it quickly. But that's just me. Mia _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar  get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 18:39:44 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni fans discussing dsk wrote: > my understanding is that this is a > "discussion" list, not a worship list Thank you. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 18:46:14 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Hejira is the greatest thing ever... KindTaper@aol.com wrote: > I know that some folks only like her early work (I used to be one, Court and > Spark was as far as I'd go), but if you have never heard this album, I urge > you to pick it up right away. It's brilliant from start to finish. Hejira is a masterpiece! It's one of several Joni albums that are so good, I cannot possibly rate them, one above the other. (Most everything up to and including WTRF). RR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 22:27:03 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) **Ask and ye shall receive. Actually, in the case of trying to communicate with Joni's management/record company, it's more like "ask and ye shall be ignored". At least that's been what's happened every time I tried to get information or request something. ** Now Bob, you are my bud, but I couldn't resist about giving you a raft of sh*t about this in my last email. Sometimes I don't know what gets into you about Joni! Sometimes I think you expect to much! Don't blame me - blame Joni for creating truly inspired and epic work like FTR, C&S, Hejira, TI, etc and then selling out with recycled work that serves no purpose other than to expand her own discography. SHE'S the one that set her own bar so high, I acknowledge and honor that by not allowing her to phone it in now. Of course, she can and will do as she pleases, but I don't give her a free pass based on her past. Of what benefit is blind admiration? She's proven that artistic growth can be maintained in the short-term business of the music business, so now what? We applaud her painting a starry night again & again & again? Bullcrap. Bob NP: The White Stripes, "Seven Nation Army" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 22:29:57 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Joni's hand Mia observed: > Just a wild thought, but do you suppose Joni's trying to tell us something > about herself with her deformed hand from BSN and her green ghoulish hand > from TBOS? Perhaps her post-polio syndrome is really taking its toll on her > body, particularly in her hands. And this may be why she can no longer > play/write new songs. She may truly be beginning her own survival of sorts. Could be, Mia. You may have hit on something. We can only hope, for Joni's sake, it's not true. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 22:55:01 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: RE: "Joni just can't seem to do anything right these days" Azeem wrote: > I really don't understand why people get so upset when someone voices an > opinion unfavourable to Joni. Come on, tell us why you love it, please - and > please don't imply that we "shouldn't" express strong dislike if that is what > we feel. I'm not upset (at least I don't think I am). I just find it amusing, and sad in a way too, that any of us thinks that we can criticize the musical and/or production decisions of a woman whose "body of work over 30-plus years is widely regarded as one of the most significant and consistent collections by any artist of her generation." (www.jonimitchell.com) It reminds me of, well, everytime Joni changed her musical direction and someone complained that she wasn't doing music like [fill in the blank, although it's often LOTC or FTR] anymore. The blessed irony is that later on that same someone will discover that they now LOVE the release they thought they hated (DJRD comes to mind as I type), and that Joni was way ahead of her time when she released it. As Mark wrote: "She's given us a *lot* of incredible music over the years. She's going to be 61 in November. If she doesn't feel the urge to write new music, so be it. She's earned the right to take a break or (heaven forbid!) retire, imo. And I refuse to believe that she's releasing TBOS just to be putting out product. Why would she need to do that? Is she hard up? I doubt it. I think she wants to make a statement with this release. You don't have to like it but why beat her up for it? Hasn't she given us enough?" I completely agree. Further, I'll reiterate something I've said before: it's up to us, her fans, to help Joni to get her music heard by those who haven't yet heard it. Use whatever album(s) or packaging you choose, but do it. She's given us so much, we can do at least that much as a favor returned. I haven't purchased TBOS yet, but I intend to. Not because I'm a completist; I skipped the last Geffen boxed set. So as to why and what I love about the latest release, I'll have to save that for another post. (Besides, it's bedtime for this bonzo). Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 23:00:31 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) Steve P. wrote: > I'm gonna sound like a skipping record here. Doesn't anyone have the > balls to write her management company- or her, about future plans for a boxed > set? (Since so many seem to whine about it.) Randy replied: > More like pine for it. On this subject, I was watching a vid of > Joni's 1996 appearance on "CBS This Morning", and during > the Q & A session, she actually said she was working on putting > together a box set. So there is hope.... See, now I don't get this. Why would you pine for a boxed set? (No pun intended.) You don't already have everything Joni has released? Why would you want it all again in a boxed set? Why not just make your own box and put the cds inside? Lori, seriously bewildered ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 23:06:08 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) Bob shared: > All-Music Guide thinks differently, their review (by Thom Jurek) says: > One has to wonder about the title; if by saying this is "the beginning of > survival," Ms. Mitchell is referring to her own retirement strategy? Nah. It's simple: Joni is saying, "Pay attention to what I've written, folks, and take heed, and pull your heads out of your asses. THAT's the beginning of survival." Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 23:18:43 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) **Lori, seriously bewildered I'm sure that Randy is talking about a 'Rarities' box set, not a compilation of already released stuff. Most of her contemporaries have done it, some many times over, giving us rare live performances ('69 Carnegie Hall anyone?) or demos or alternative recordings (alt-Mingus, anyone) or unreleased songs (Jeremy, for one which she cut as an acetate around the same time as "Day After Day"). There is a wealth of stuff out there that deserves exposure, and would be a HIT in the marketplace instead of the silence that will accompany this release today. Bob NP: Sam Phillips, "One Day Late" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 20:25:39 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) Lori Fye wrote: > Steve P. wrote: > > > I'm gonna sound like a skipping record here. Doesn't anyone have the > > balls to write her management company- or her, about future plans for a boxed > > set? (Since so many seem to whine about it.) > > Randy replied: > > > More like pine for it. On this subject, I was watching a vid of > > Joni's 1996 appearance on "CBS This Morning", and during > > the Q & A session, she actually said she was working on putting > > together a box set. So there is hope.... > > See, now I don't get this. Why would you pine for a boxed set? (No pun > intended.) You don't already have everything Joni has released? Why would you > want it all again in a boxed set? If that's all it was, I wouldn't. And I wouldn't buy it. In fact I would bitch mightily. As an example of what a box set can be: Crosby, Stills & Nash, Jimi Hendrix, Beatles Anthology. In other words; outtakes, alternate versions, demos, live recordings. We know they exist. If Joni has writer's block, or nothing new to say, or whatever, cut lose of some of the bullion in the closet. That I would gladly buy. RR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 23:31:31 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) Lori writes: << "Pay attention to what I've written, folks, and take heed, and pull your heads out of your asses. THAT's the beginning of survival." >> If I had that kind of reach and flexibility, Lori dear, my head wouldn't be in my ass! - --Smurfadelica "Today is a gift. That's why they call it the present!" - --a quotation from Kiki & Herb in the latest Michael Musto Village Voice column ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 23:34:24 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Hejira is the greatest thing ever... Preach it, brother! Wow, I can't believe you're the same guy who said he preferred the 1st album in his first post. In my opinion, there are 10 amazing albums in the middle, Wes. The way you jumped from Song To A Seagull to Hejira within a year must be some kind of record. I'm one of the few who loves DJRD and Mingus as much as Hejira. Did any solo Beatle have this many amazing albums? Lama Wes said, >>The album and the song... I can't stop listening to this album. I know that some folks only like her early work (I used to be one, Court and Spark was as far as I'd go), but if you have never heard this album, I urge you to pick it up right away.>> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 20:43:56 -0700 From: "gene mock" Subject: Re: Hejira is the greatest thing ever... hello mike, i know what you mean. i use to spend late winter early spring at titus canyon in death valley. at the leadville mine i turn heijra up and the whole canyon would echo. sure miss those days. the desert and joni's music is a very good mix anytime night or day. later gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Friedman" To: "Happy The Man" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 6:25 PM Subject: Re: Hejira is the greatest thing ever... > I do this too...Everytime I go on a trip it's the first CD in the > deck...... > > "I'm travelling in some vehicle, sitting in some cafe..." > > :-) > > Mike > > On Jul 27, 2004, at 2:08 PM, Happy The Man wrote: > > > The album was pointaint for me. I was 18 and couldn't get enough of > > the > > road. But it all came together on Highway 14 outside of Mojave heading > > toward Bishop and a well deserved backpacking trip. I loaded up my 63 > > chevy > > pickup (with three on the tree) and headed out after work for a long > > weekend > > in the mountains. I hit Red Rock Canyon right around sunset and the > > stereo > > was blowing though my Optimus speakers (woo hoo for radio shack). > > Just put > > yourself in the desert with the sun glowing yellow on the red > > background and > > your not more then and hours drive from Edwards Air Force base and here > > comes the song and the opening line....i was traveling across the > > burning > > desert... It was the start of a great trip and it only got better, > > this was > > the album I was going to travel by for the next three years. Not > > until NRH > > did I find another travel album like this. > > > > Peace, Craig > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 3:21 PM > > Subject: Hejira is the greatest thing ever... > > > > > >> The album and the song... > >> > >> I can't stop listening to this album. I don't know if it's the sound > >> of > > her > >> guitar, the lushness of her voice, the way she interacts with Jaco, or > > what. > >> The word that goes through my mind almost every time I listen to it > >> is: > >> > >> *mature* > >> > >> I know that some folks only like her early work (I used to be one, > >> Court > > and > >> Spark was as far as I'd go), but if you have never heard this album, I > > urge > >> you to pick it up right away. It's brilliant from start to finish. Her > > voice > >> sounds well seasoned and like she's experienced much of the good and > >> bad > > of life > >> by this time. One of my favorite moments on the album is near the end > >> of > >> "Amelia", when the other guitar player's guitar is made to sound like > >> a > > pedal > >> steel. I visualize crusing along in a plane, around the time of sunset > > when the sky > >> looks orange, and looking out the window at the sun and clouds and > >> seeing > >> some birds fly by. > >> > >> Have a great day. > >> > >> Wes > > > > > > ========================== > "Do I contradict myself? > Very well then I contradict myself, > (I am large, I contain multitudes.)" > --Walt Whitman > > Mike Friedman > San Francisco, CA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 00:05:58 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira is the greatest thing ever... I'm always glad to see praise for DJRD. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 00:41:02 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: "Joni just can't seem to do anything right these days" > I'm not upset (at least I don't think I am). I just find it amusing, and sad in > a way too, that any of us thinks that we can criticize the musical and/or > production decisions of a woman whose "body of work over 30-plus years is > widely regarded as one of the most significant and consistent collections by > any artist of her generation." (www.jonimitchell.com) I find it amusing that any of us thinks we can't criticize musical/and or production decisions. I love Joni's music but in my mind that has little or nothing to do with my opinion/reaction to this new release, which does nothing for me. I did buy the Geffen album box as I didn't have them on cd and I was able to get it at a good price. So far my favorite to listen to has been "Wild Things Run Fast." I find it fun to listen to, very energetic with some very poignant songs. > I completely agree. Further, I'll reiterate something I've said before: it's > up to us, her fans, to help Joni to get her music heard by those who haven't > yet heard it. Use whatever album(s) or packaging you choose, but do it. She's > given us so much, we can do at least that much as a favor returned. I don't feel any obligation to promote Joni Mitchell. I listen to her for my own enjoyment and if someone happens to get turned on to her then that's all good and well but I don't feel this sense of urgency. There seems to be this illusion that because Joni is not on the top of the charts today, we need to spread her music to people but as great as it is, I think its going to be around for a long time and people are going to discover it on their own. Sure, the majority of people today seem to have no taste but Joni certainly has alot of fans far and beyond this list. Of course, if she was paying me to promote her I might reconsider... ;>) Victor, going to see Rush next weekend on their 30th anniversary tour! Victor Johnson New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville http://www.waytobluemusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 02:02:04 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: July 28 On July 28 the following article was published: 1966: "Rising Folksinger From Saskatoon Discusses Career" - Saskatoon StarPhoenix (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=639 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 07:33:26 +0100 From: "Ross, Les" Subject: Re: Hejira is the greatest thing ever ever ever ever evvaah ... The album and the song... I can't stop listening to this album. Wes wrote Easily my favourite work of music of all time, album and song. Just reading these posts about the record swings me back to when I first listened to it. A process that took weeks and weeks at some point not long after it was released. I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now. I wonder if I'm self-mythologising but I have a faint impression that I knew then it would be a remarkable work in my life. I don't think I'm overstating it. On another topic - Joni's paucity / absence of new work plus the preparedness of some of us on the list to really have a go at it when it does venture into the public forum. The trouble with being fans of Joni's work is that we've experienced and grown to truly appreciate excellence. She has taught us well. We have formed the very highest expectations of her. Work not coming up to par or being visited upon by these 're-issues' will do nothing to divert us from those expectations. A victim perhaps of her 'self announced' if already appreciated superiority. Les (London) Np Ian McNabb - You must be Prepared to Dream ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #214 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)