From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #213 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, July 27 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 213 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni in fiction ["vincenzo mancini" ] Re: Joni in fiction ["vincenzo mancini" ] Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) ["Steven Polifka" ] Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) for UK listers [=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi] [none] ["David Valdez" ] Re: [waytoblu ] RE: ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: ["David Valdez" ] RE: [Em ] Re: [Jerry Notaro ] Re :joni beyond criticism [deeperwants-cul ] Joni fans discussing [dsk ] "Joni just can't seem to do anything right these days" [Lori Fye ] Re: Joni fans discussing [Lori Fye ] Hejira is the greatest thing ever... [KindTaper@aol.com] Re: Hejira is the greatest thing ever... [Jerry Notaro ] Re: joni beyond criticism [dsk ] RE: Hejira is the greatest thing ever... ["Les Irvin" ] Re: Hejira is the greatest thing ever... ["Happy The Man" ] Re: Joni fans discussing [Lori Fye ] Re: Hejira is the greatest thing ever... [colin ] Re: Hejira - no effort wasted [KindTaper@aol.com] Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) [Brian Gross ] If Joni released new material [Lori Fye ] Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) [Randy Remote ] Joni's hand ["mia ortlieb" ] Re: Hejira is the greatest thing ever... [Mike Friedman ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 08:05:48 +0000 From: "vincenzo mancini" Subject: Joni in fiction While reading a short story by Hanif Kureishi, titled "Goodbye, mother", copyrighted in 2000, I came to read that Alexandra, the wife of Harry, the main character, went to Thailand for two weeks to attend some dream, healing and imagination seminars...The following is a dialogue between Harry and his mother: ... - His mother said: "What is she doing there?"- "She said to me at the phone she's there with other middle-aged women, all wearing sandals and bright colours dresses and they are all mad about Joni Mitchell. The last thing I came to know is that she hugs these women and does rituals on the beach."- "Rituals?" Strangely, I could not find any reference to the book in the 'fiction' section of the jmdl site; was my search inaccurate? Please note that the above excerpt is freely translated from Italian... Vincenzo Can anybody copy on dvd the JM video trees? Please contact me offlist. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 12:53:13 +0000 From: "vincenzo mancini" Subject: Re: Joni in fiction Bob, I know I should have done it before your question brought me to http://www.hanifkureishi.com/mother.html where I did find what it would seem the whole original text heres the relevant excerpt [in a quite better English, uh? ;-)]: He explained that Alexandra had gone to a centre in Thailand for a fortnight to take various courses. There were dream, healing, and 'imaging' workshops. Mother said, What is she doing there? She said on the phone that she is with other middle-aged women in sandals and bright dresses with a penchant for Joni Mitchell. The last I heard she was hugging these women and taking part in rituals on the beach. Rituals? Hanif Kureishis story Goodbye, Mother was first published in Granta #69, March 2000; it is also available in Paperback by Granta Books (2000) and in The Body and Seven Stories, by Hanif Kureishi, Faber & Faber All the best, Vincenzo >From: Smurfycopy@aol.com >To: vincenzomancini@hotmail.com >Subject: Re: Joni in fiction >Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 06:51:03 EDT > >Thanks, Vincenzo. I will make this change in the next update. Do you have any >info on who published the book and when? > >Sincerely, > >--Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 08:36:43 -0500 From: "Steven Polifka" Subject: Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) Actually, TBOS is from Geffen AND Reprise. Now... In light of the many, many opinions about TBOS, I had to look at this compilation from an artist's view. She didn't do this for the fans, clearly. (I'm sure she's waiting to see if this thing sells or not). We, the fans are disgruntled because we believe she's still full of life, vigor, and not done creating. We aren't getting what we want. Boo hoo. She, on the otherhand, is the watcher. Why write- or rewrite about subjects she's already tackled? (She has this untapped resource- her past catalogue- why not use it- to make a statement and a few bucks (hopefully)? How many other 60's and 70's music stars are doing the same thing??? So let's not beat up on Joni.) Perhaps she will reach a new audience, perhaps she won't, but she's giving it a shot. I'm gonna sound like a skipping record here. Doesn't anyone have the balls to write her management company- or her, about future plans for a boxed set? (Since so many seem to whine about it.) Does she know that there would be this HUGE market? Sure, this sounds crazy but I admit that I am. Ask and ye shall receive. (Now who was it that said THAT?) Sound advice to me.( I like to cut to the chase anyway. Fuck the process, I want results!) Not very Zen, but life is short. Now Bob, you are my bud, but I couldn't resist about giving you a raft of shit about this in my last email. Sometimes I don't know what gets into you about Joni! Sometimes I think you expect to much! Like with each new album, I wondered where she was going and what she was doing and if I'd continue to listen. And each time I would think, Ah, so this is where she is now. That's my Joni.... You have uncovered so many Joni rare treasures,on video and audio- it is absolutely remarkable. Unfortunately, there may be an end to those treasures... Much love(and respect,( even tho' you might not believe it) Steve >>> 07/26/04 05:06PM >>> Thanks for the love, Stevo...the line about the stuff languishing in the basement was Joni's, not mine. My whole point is not that these are all bad tunes, but rather that this compilation is totally superfluous. Although the All-Music Guide thinks differently, their review (by Thom Jurek) says: "The Beginning of Survival is a whopping, 16-track collection from Joni Mitchell's Geffen period, recorded between 1985-1998, and carefully chosen by the artist as "commentaries on the world in which we live." One has to wonder about the title; if by saying this is "the beginning of survival," Ms. Mitchell is referring to her own retirement strategyshe is no longer making new records. Or perhaps that we are now, at the end of actual living and are on the other side of the garden of Eden she referred to in her song &Woodstock" from so long ago? Are we at the beginning a new era, one in which the strategies we once used to exist in a society together have been erased and new ones come into play, where we make our way merely as individuals in isolation from and in competition with one another? Or perhaps, the question is one of beginning to survive as a culture despite the onslaught of mediated images that now cancel out "the real thing," with rampant greed and the lust for objects of desire and power rather than desire itself. The sequencing here, is so meticulous and effective that the Beginning of Survival feels like a topical song cycle rather than a compilation. Tracks trace meaning and impression onto other tracks, they inform and elucidate themes of resistance in the face of the dark deluge that began the culture war in earnest during in the 1980s, and which as come to signify the nature American society in the 21st century with no signs of anything but further fragmentation. The opening words of "The Recoccuring Dream that begin this cycle states: "This is a reoccurring dream/Born in the dreary gap between/What we have now/And what we wish we could have." A line that signifies a double meaning, one that is caught between the simulacrum of what we are offered as life, and the drive for life itself. And so it goes from this screed against consumerism that follows in tracks like "the Windfall (Everything For Nothing)," and moves on to the weariness with Culture in "Dog Eat Doc," "The Beat Of Black Wings," and "Fiction," and "Sex Kills," and the meditation on other cultural and social and ecological injustices in "The Three Great Stimulants," "Lakota," the "Ethiopia," "No Apologies," "The Magdalene Laundries," to the place of the spirit and the allegories of the great spiritual lessons in "Slouching Towards Bethlehem," and "Passion Play," to the faint glimmer of hope in "Cool Water," and "Impossible Dreamer." Back and forth, around, down and in, these songs swirl with her trademark weave of jazz, rock, and pop into a long meditation on what has happened, and where we find ourselves, in this new world, truly "at the beginning of survival," deprived of the strategy of history because it has been cancelled out. This is a provocative, wonderfully articulated and gorgeously illustrated compilations (there is a series of nine of Mitchell's thematic paintings and one self portrait Mitchell adorning the booklet), that sheds not only new light on the tunes, but on Ms. Mitchell's enduring contribution. " Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 15:37:40 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) for UK listers God, this is so true! If only she would. Also I've just discovered that TBOS isn't released in UK til August 16th. Whatthef@ckisthaddabout??!?!??! I spoke to someone from a recod shop in Waterloo Station who was not knowing anything about the date when the girl behind the counter said,' New Joni Mitchell?... Hey Joe (she was Australian) have you there's a new Joni Mitchell album out? Can we order some, I want it!' I felt I had to tell her it was a new compilation of stuff and not new material. She said, "Oh, ok, but still!!!" Have these people never heard of the JMDL? I wonder. And she being Australian and all... Much Joni Jamie Zoob - --- Steven Polifka wrote: > Actually, TBOS is from Geffen AND Reprise. Now... > > In light of the many, many opinions about TBOS, > I had to look > at this compilation from an artist's view. > She didn't do this for the fans, clearly. (I'm > sure she's waiting to see > if this thing sells or not). > We, the fans are disgruntled because we believe > she's still full of life, > vigor, and not done creating. We aren't getting what > we want. Boo hoo. > She, on the otherhand, is the watcher. Why write- > or rewrite about subjects she's already tackled? > (She has this untapped resource- her past catalogue- > why not use it- to make a statement and a few bucks > (hopefully)? How many other 60's and 70's music > stars are doing the same thing??? So let's not beat > up on Joni.) Perhaps she will reach a new audience, > perhaps she won't, but she's giving it a shot. > I'm gonna sound like a skipping record here. > Doesn't anyone have the balls to write her > management company- or her, about future plans for a > boxed set? (Since so many seem to whine about it.) > Does she know that there would be this HUGE market? > Sure, this sounds crazy but I admit that I am. > Ask and ye shall receive. > (Now who was it that said THAT?) Sound advice to > me.( I like to cut to the chase anyway. Fuck the > process, I want results!) Not very Zen, but life is > short. > > Like with each new album, I wondered where she > was going and what she was doing and if I'd continue > to listen. And each time I would think, > Ah, so this is where she is now. That's my Joni.... > You have uncovered so many Joni rare treasures,on > video and audio- it is absolutely remarkable. > Unfortunately, there may be an end to those > treasures... > Much love(and respect,( even tho' you might not > believe it) > Steve > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 09:09:09 -0600 From: "David Valdez" Subject: [none] Joni just can't seem to do anything right these days. "She shouldn't do these re-releases", "she doesn't know how to paint", "she paints her hand the wrong color", etc. etc. Gosh, I'd hate to read some of these posts if and when she decides to release new material. David in Old El Paso. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 11:48:18 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: waytoblu Subject: Re: So what are you saying.... Is Joni beyond criticism? Reminds me of the twilight zone episode where everyone has to cater to this little boy, and say everything he does is good or else he blots people out of existence. Victor Joni just can't seem to do anything right these days. "She shouldn't do these re-releases", "she doesn't know how to paint", "she paints her hand the wrong color", etc. etc. Gosh, I'd hate to read some of these posts if and when she decides to release new material. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 12:40:55 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: If she did release new material, we wouldn't be saying these things, we'd even overlook the ghoulish hand! Joni just can't seem to do anything right these days. "She shouldn't do these re-releases", "she doesn't know how to paint", "she paints her hand the wrong color", etc. etc. Gosh, I'd hate to read some of these posts if and when she decides to release new material. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 11:17:18 -0600 From: "David Valdez" Subject: Re: I just think these re-releases can expose some younger people to her music, and maybe re-acquaint her work with some fans she might have lost along the way is all. So she's not giving us anything new but at least she's still is getting some exposure with this Geffen stuff. David - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Flynn" To: "waytoblu" ; "David Valdez" ; Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 10:40 AM Subject: RE: > > If she did release new material, we wouldn't be saying these things, we'd > even overlook the ghoulish hand! > > > Joni just can't seem to do anything right these days. "She shouldn't do > these > re-releases", "she doesn't know how to paint", "she paints her hand the > wrong > color", etc. etc. Gosh, I'd hate to read some of these posts if and when > she > decides to release new material. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 10:23:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: RE: I feel kinda bad throwing my .02 in - since I'm not quite as Joni-ish as most of you folks. But, to me, I'd rather her wait and put out new stuff when she has some real inspired work to release, rather than "generating" new material, just for the sake of putting something out there. Work that it sounds like she *wanted* to do it, rather than putting out "product". Maybe she's tired of being pushed. Maybe when she's 70 she'll feel very driven to pick up or sit down with, an instrument, and make some new songs. Maybe something totally different! Time will tell, as they say. Em - --- Richard Flynn wrote: > If she did release new material, we wouldn't be saying these things, > we'd > even overlook the ghoulish hand! > > > Joni just can't seem to do anything right these days. "She shouldn't > do > these > re-releases", "she doesn't know how to paint", "she paints her hand > the > wrong > color", etc. etc. Gosh, I'd hate to read some of these posts if and > when > she > decides to release new material. > ===== - ------- "Don't try to build an aeroplane when you just need a kite." Tee ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 13:24:44 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Then why re-release the Geffen material, which has been just recently re-released? It is the arguable majority opinion it is her weakest, so why not re-release other, stronger material, with maybe alternate recordings, or live versions? I think that is what most of list members are expressing. Jerry > I just think these re-releases can expose some younger people to her music, > and maybe re-acquaint her work with some fans she might have lost along the > way is all. So she's not giving us anything new but at least she's still is > getting some exposure with this Geffen stuff. > > David > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Flynn" > To: "waytoblu" ; "David Valdez" > ; > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 10:40 AM > Subject: RE: > > >> >> If she did release new material, we wouldn't be saying these things, we'd >> even overlook the ghoulish hand! >> >> >> Joni just can't seem to do anything right these days. "She shouldn't do >> these >> re-releases", "she doesn't know how to paint", "she paints her hand the >> wrong >> color", etc. etc. Gosh, I'd hate to read some of these posts if and when >> she >> decides to release new material. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 14:16:46 -0400 From: deeperwants-cul Subject: Re :joni beyond criticism waytoblu wrote: So what are you saying.... Is Joni beyond criticism? In a sense, yes she is. What is the point of criticism in the first place? As a form of positive feedback (like applause, or purchasing a product) it is fine and communicates to the artist that they are being appreciated. On the negative side there is plain old "I don't like that" or constructive criticism meant to improve or steer the potential of an artist (especially of those beginning their careers). At some point however we have to allow that an artist is mature enough not to need our either our audience of their works or criticism to validate it. After all, genius knows itself better than anyone outside it and as an artist pushes the boundaries of comprehension, taste and complexity they will invariably move beyond the attactive and perceptual capacity of some or even all of their audience. I stopped criticizing Mitchell a very long time ago except on a very personal "i don't like that...yet" level and she has never let me down...ever. It has always been a case of me either immediately "groking" her art or catching up with her later after transcending what were "my" rather than "her" limitations. I grant Mitchell perfect artistic licence because she has always proved to be a perfect artist. There have times when I did not agree with her personal take on societal matters however, because that is not her domain of expertise and on that level she is just another bozo on the bus like the rest of us. cul Reminds me of the twilight zone episode where everyone has to cater to this little boy, and say everything he does is good or else he blots people out of existence. Victor Joni just can't seem to do anything right these days. "She shouldn't do these re-releases", "she doesn't know how to paint", "she paints her hand the wrong color", etc. etc. Gosh, I'd hate to read some of these posts if and when she decides to release new material. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 14:54:59 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Joni fans discussing David Valdez wrote: > > Joni just can't seem to do anything right these days. "She shouldn't do these > re-releases", "she doesn't know how to paint", "she paints her hand the wrong > color", etc. etc. Gosh, I'd hate to read some of these posts if and when she > decides to release new material. The archives contain all the posts and reactions and enthusiasm and criticism expressed when Joni did release new material, so you could find out what happens when fans here are excited about she's doing, if you wish. I remember people spontaneously coming up with the plan for all of us to buy as many copies of Joni's new release as we could afford on the day it comes out so it would register on whatever list keeps track of sales. There was such anticipation among her fans, Joni didn't have to ask us to do that. That plan was discussed for TTT and even BSN, and may have happened also with TI. This is the first time ever that Joni's made such a request. I still think this release is bizarre. With T'log, I thought she was finally free of the music business she's been bitching about for decades. Plus, it wasn't long ago that Joni was so annoyed about having to do a compilation (at the record company's demand) that she put her ass on the cover. The message given to the suits and to anyone who bought that cd was "kiss my ass." That's great. Shows spunk. And now she chooses and is excited about re-releasing old stuff? When her life is so different now? And the world is different than it was 20 years ago? It doesn't make any sense to me. I doubt if anyone who picks up BS thinking it's brand new will be pleased when they look at it more closely. (There's no song listing on the Amazon site, which seems deceptive to me.) And if BS is the first exposure to Joni for anyone, only someone who enjoys being scolded will want to buy more. They may never get to all those jewels she's given us, the carefully crafted cds of originals right up through TTT. I'm not impressed with her painting either, and find the portrait on the cover especially painful to look at. It's probably a flipped version because she used a device to project it on the canvas. Nothing wrong with that, but it would help get feeling into it (and into her other paintings, too) if she'd actually look at the real thing instead of relying on a photo or the projection. That cover portrait is oppressive, and I really hope that's not how she's feeling these days. The square shape conveys immobility and lack of energy, she's weighted down not only by that hat and hair (is that her bangs across her eyes?) but also by the heavy frame and, to make the image even more rigid, she's held in place by those gray bars of the background. Most importantly, it doesn't look like Joni. My first thought was that she looks like a sly fox with those beady eyes, cheek pouch and long nose -- not fox as in sexy but as in getting something over on people. I doubt, though, whether that was her intent. She's not that subtle when it comes to her painting, and I think the effect is from ineptness (or maybe lack of time) rather than deliberate. My guess is that she made her hand greenish so it wouldn't be noticeable and her face would stand out, or that hand is supposed to be in shadow, or, as someone mentioned, it's an "of the earth" hand. I like that last one, as though her hand has just been dipping into the dirt of "The Garden" (oh, but wait, the garden isn't mentioned on this cd...). Or it may have come out of a grave like in horror movies, ghoulish indeed! As she's always been, Joni's brave in releasing this compilation, and her courage is something I've always admired. I don't understand why she's doing this re-release and am not interested in buying it, but I am glad to see she's gotten at least one good review. I would expect this cd to be ignored by most critics. Joni herself knows something's wrong if she has to ask us to buy it. And to the chorus of people who get upset or angry whenever there's negative criticism of Joni, my understanding is that this is a "discussion" list, not a worship list. People get extremely quiet whenever anyone starts telling us to "let Joni do what she wants." Nothing we say will ever stop her from doing exactly what she wants. Joni's lucky that, 35 years into her music career, people are still looking closely enough and feel connected enough to have ANY opinion about what she's doing. Debra Shea NPIMH: Joni singing Stay in Touch ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 15:20:53 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: "Joni just can't seem to do anything right these days" David in Old El Paso wrote: > Gosh, I'd hate to read some of these posts if and when she decides to > release new material. Yep. Take a peek at the digests back when BSN was released. Granted, BSN was an album of covers (two of them Joni's own), but OH! the pissin' & moanin' it generated. Joni was trying to tell a story with this collection of songs. She actually TOURED for this album, and sang with a full (and local) orchestra in every venue she played. For her encore she sang stuff that wasn't on BSN. I was in the 8th row at the DC area concert, and the entire performance was an absolutely beautiful experience. If you read a lot of the stuff that was posted to this list at the time of BSN's release, though, you would have thought Joni had just stuck a pile of dogshit in a hatbox and put it on the market. I'm still trying to figure out exactly makes us think we're qualified to 'dis' Joni's work. She's not flawless (and I am on record as disliking the repetitive nature of the current cd cover template), but she's still the best in my lifetime. Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 12:30:29 -0700 From: Mike Friedman Subject: Re: Re :joni beyond criticism I'm not sure I agree with you about Joni being a "perfect" artist, I'm not sure there is such a beast in the world. But I will absolutely grant you that Mitchell is pretty amazing and that repeated study of her ouevre (I love that word) gives you back more than you put into it. Hearing something new because of your mood or what is happening in your life is really pretty amazing. Personally, I'm not a big fan of her paintings, but maybe it's because I haven't seen them in person. Sometimes I think art like that doesn't reproduce very well and that you DO have to be in front of it (Sunday on the Island of La Grande Jatte is such a painting. I think, no one quite realizes how HUGE it is until you see it at the Art Institute of Chicago) to appreciate it. Just me $.02. On Jul 27, 2004, at 11:16 AM, deeperwants-cul wrote: > waytoblu wrote: > > So what are you saying.... > > Is Joni beyond criticism? > > In a sense, yes she is. What is the point of criticism in the first > place? As a form of positive feedback (like applause, or purchasing a > product) it is fine and communicates to the artist that they are being > appreciated. On the negative side there is plain old "I don't like > that" > or constructive criticism meant to improve or steer the potential of an > artist (especially of those beginning their careers). > > At some point however we have to allow that an artist is mature enough > not to need our either our audience of their works or criticism to > validate it. After all, genius knows itself better than anyone outside > it > and as an artist pushes the boundaries of comprehension, taste and > complexity they will invariably move beyond the attactive and > perceptual > capacity of some or even all of their audience. > > I stopped criticizing Mitchell a very long time ago except on a very > personal "i don't like that...yet" level and she has never let me > down...ever. It has always been a case of me either immediately > "groking" > her art or catching up with her later after transcending what were "my" > rather than "her" limitations. I grant Mitchell perfect artistic > licence > because she has always proved to be a perfect artist. > > There have times when I did not agree with her personal take on > societal > matters however, because that is not her domain of expertise and on > that > level she is just another bozo on the bus like the rest of us. > > cul > > Reminds me of the twilight zone episode where everyone has to cater > to this little boy, and say everything he does is good or else he > blots people out of existence. > > Victor > > Joni just can't seem to do anything right these days. "She > shouldn't do these > re-releases", "she doesn't know how to paint", "she paints her hand > the wrong > color", etc. etc. Gosh, I'd hate to read some of these posts if > and when she > decides to release new material. > > ========================================= "Heart and humor, and humility, he said, will lighten up your heavy load." - --Joni Mitchell, 'Refuge of the Roads,' from "Hejira", 1976 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 15:46:16 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Joni fans discussing Good points, Debra, all of them. I find this one particularly intriguing: > And now she chooses and is excited about re-releasing old stuff? When her > life is so different now? And the world is different than it was 20 years > ago? Joni's life is surely different that it was 20 years ago, but is the world really so different? I don't think it is. If anything, at this point in time we're seeing a lot of the same political and economic stuff that was happening when DED was released. At least that's how it feels to me. > And to the chorus of people who get upset or angry whenever there's > negative criticism of Joni, my understanding is that this is a > "discussion" list, not a worship list. Fair enough, and you're right. > NPIMH: Joni singing Stay in Touch Touche! : ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 16:21:11 EDT From: KindTaper@aol.com Subject: Hejira is the greatest thing ever... The album and the song... I can't stop listening to this album. I don't know if it's the sound of her guitar, the lushness of her voice, the way she interacts with Jaco, or what. The word that goes through my mind almost every time I listen to it is: *mature* I know that some folks only like her early work (I used to be one, Court and Spark was as far as I'd go), but if you have never heard this album, I urge you to pick it up right away. It's brilliant from start to finish. Her voice sounds well seasoned and like she's experienced much of the good and bad of life by this time. One of my favorite moments on the album is near the end of "Amelia", when the other guitar player's guitar is made to sound like a pedal steel. I visualize crusing along in a plane, around the time of sunset when the sky looks orange, and looking out the window at the sun and clouds and seeing some birds fly by. Have a great day. Wes ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 16:29:31 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Hejira is the greatest thing ever... So you have entered dangerous territory on the list! There are basically 3 camps for Joni's best; For the Roses, Blue, and Hejira. Though there is little argument that as a group they represent Joni's best work. As for me, I can never get enough of FTR, though I recognize Hejira as Joni at the top of her form. Jerry np: Betty Buckley - Infinite Joy > The album and the song... > > I can't stop listening to this album. I don't know if it's the sound of her > guitar, the lushness of her voice, the way she interacts with Jaco, or what. > The word that goes through my mind almost every time I listen to it is: > > *mature* > > I know that some folks only like her early work (I used to be one, Court and > Spark was as far as I'd go), but if you have never heard this album, I urge > you to pick it up right away. It's brilliant from start to finish. Her voice > sounds well seasoned and like she's experienced much of the good and bad of > life > by this time. One of my favorite moments on the album is near the end of > "Amelia", when the other guitar player's guitar is made to sound like a pedal > steel. I visualize crusing along in a plane, around the time of sunset when > the sky > looks orange, and looking out the window at the sun and clouds and seeing > some birds fly by. > > Have a great day. > > Wes ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 16:21:50 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Joni fans discussing Lori Fye wrote: > > Joni's life is surely different that it was 20 years ago, but is the world > really so different? I don't think it is. If anything, at this point in time > we're seeing a lot of the same political and economic stuff that was happening > when DED was released. At least that's how it feels to me. I agree, somewhat. Have to think about that more. What comes to mind first is Joni singing Ethiopia 20 years ago, and that same song could apply to Rwanda 10 years ago and to the devastation now in Sudan. And the money-grabbing preacher... the harmful effects when religion is used unlovingly, yep, that certainly applies today, too. I've wondered if we're all supposed to be impressed with Joni's "foreknowledge", and that's what this compilation is about (since nothing else makes sense to me). But haven't her die-hard fans always been impressed with her seeming to see into the future? There have been discussions (and some amazement) about her mention on DJRD of Muslims in Washington. Maybe the idea is to impress people new to Joni, and maybe that will happen (although right away I'm wondering if the year the songs were recorded will be part of the package info). I think I'm worried about Joni. She's behaving in an un-Joni way. Debra Shea NP: TV newspeople talking about the convention; I love watching Democratic conventions because there's always all types of people there, real people. Am looking forward to Barack Obama's speech tonight. I hope he runs for president someday. He is smart smart smart! It's such a pleasure listening to him. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 16:38:46 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: joni beyond criticism Mike Friedman wrote: > > Personally, I'm not a big fan of her paintings, but maybe it's because > I haven't seen them in person. Sometimes I think art like that doesn't > reproduce very well and that you DO have to be in front of it (Sunday > on the Island of La Grande Jatte is such a painting. I think, no one > quite realizes how HUGE it is until you see it at the Art Institute of > Chicago) to appreciate it. That's true. There's nothing better than standing in front of original art. Another example is standing close enough to a big Mark Rothko to become immersed in it and to experience the subtle color variations and the weight of it all. You just can't get that from a reproduction. My lack of interest in Joni's artwork is because it's filled with cliches. Unlike in her music where she searches for exactly the right word, something expressive and unique, she settles for things like reproducing the Gap ad because the word gap is in the first song (good catch, Lori; I think you may be right about that), or painting the back of her head on BSN (with the deformed right hand I can't stand to look at), or painting the heart on the sleeve on the front of BSN because it happened to be on the photograph she painted from. At the same time, I say paint on, Joni. Enjoy yourself. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 14:39:51 -0600 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: RE: Hejira is the greatest thing ever... > Subject: Hejira is the greatest thing ever... > The album and the song... Ahhh.. another convert. Taking the world one person at a time... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 16:08:54 -0500 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: Re: Hejira is the greatest thing ever... The album was pointaint for me. I was 18 and couldn't get enough of the road. But it all came together on Highway 14 outside of Mojave heading toward Bishop and a well deserved backpacking trip. I loaded up my 63 chevy pickup (with three on the tree) and headed out after work for a long weekend in the mountains. I hit Red Rock Canyon right around sunset and the stereo was blowing though my Optimus speakers (woo hoo for radio shack). Just put yourself in the desert with the sun glowing yellow on the red background and your not more then and hours drive from Edwards Air Force base and here comes the song and the opening line....i was traveling across the burning desert... It was the start of a great trip and it only got better, this was the album I was going to travel by for the next three years. Not until NRH did I find another travel album like this. Peace, Craig - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 3:21 PM Subject: Hejira is the greatest thing ever... > The album and the song... > > I can't stop listening to this album. I don't know if it's the sound of her > guitar, the lushness of her voice, the way she interacts with Jaco, or what. > The word that goes through my mind almost every time I listen to it is: > > *mature* > > I know that some folks only like her early work (I used to be one, Court and > Spark was as far as I'd go), but if you have never heard this album, I urge > you to pick it up right away. It's brilliant from start to finish. Her voice > sounds well seasoned and like she's experienced much of the good and bad of life > by this time. One of my favorite moments on the album is near the end of > "Amelia", when the other guitar player's guitar is made to sound like a pedal > steel. I visualize crusing along in a plane, around the time of sunset when the sky > looks orange, and looking out the window at the sun and clouds and seeing > some birds fly by. > > Have a great day. > > Wes ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 22:07:53 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: Re: Hejira is the greatest thing ever... Hi Wes I love this album too but I have a feeling (and I might be wrong here) but I don't want to spoil the illusion. She recorded her tracks first and was looking for a bassist to do things with them when someone suggested Jaco. That's why he's only on a few of the tracks. Max Bennet is on two and Chuck Domanico is on another playing bass. It's tribute to his playing that his stuff stands out. I love the T'Log version of Hejira (I think it is, I was only listening to it today...) where Jaco's bass melody is picked up by the horn section and it's really heaven. I'll have to listen to it again to make sure it is! Much Joni Jamie Zoob NP: Charles Mingus - Song in Orange (from The Alternate Takes album) KindTaper@aol.com wrote: The album and the song... I can't stop listening to this album. I don't know if it's the sound of her guitar, the lushness of her voice, the way she interacts with Jaco, or what. The word that goes through my mind almost every time I listen to it is: *mature* - --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 17:16:18 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Hejira is the greatest thing ever... Hejira is my favorite, too. FTR used to be. As for the Muslims in Washington it's a specific historical reference. See http://www.jmdl.com/glossary/muslims.cfm Those of us who lived in DC then, as I did, remember it well. And when DJRD came out there was instant recognition! - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Les Irvin Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 4:40 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: Hejira is the greatest thing ever... > Subject: Hejira is the greatest thing ever... > The album and the song... Ahhh.. another convert. Taking the world one person at a time... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 21:31:35 +0000 From: "J Harney" Subject: 27 July: the timing was too perfect The Union Square Virgin Megastore in NYC was empty this morning when I went in to find "The Beginning of Survival." The clerk noticed that it was a "new" Joni Mitchell, but then he was a little disappointed when I explained that it was a re-release of some of her earlier work. But since my birthday (40--oy) coincides with today's release of "The Beginning of Survival," and since I am now middle aged, I had to seize the moment and buy the new album to-day. If nothing else, it's a gorgeous package, and probably the hippest birthday gift I'll get to-day. I haven't followed to list closely of late, so my apologies if this is redundant, but has anyone thought about the cover painting of TBOS? It's the famous Herb Ritts picture of Joni for the (c.1992?) GAP advertisement that appeared in magazines for a couple of months. Herb Ritts died a couple of years ago, as I recall, so Joni seems to be making a fond tribute to Mr. Ritts. Joni is his survivor. Jack - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 17:42:16 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Joni fans discussing > I think I'm worried about Joni. She's behaving in an un-Joni way. Debra, that struck me as funny, albeit in a very good way! Has Joni EVER been predictable? Isn't that she's not predictable one of the things we love most about her? The Un-Joni. Now THERE's a name for an album! ; ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 23:46:59 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Hejira is the greatest thing ever... Jerry Notaro wrote: >So you have entered dangerous territory on the list! >There are basically 3 camps for Joni's best; For the Roses, Blue, and >Hejira. Though there is little argument that as a group they represent >Joni's best work. As for me, I can never get enough of FTR, though I >recognize Hejira as Joni at the top of her form. > > > sort of makes one think she wasted her efforts after Hejira? 1976 is the last eyar she did anything wonderful? I'd say TI and NRH wouldnbe on my list along with Hej and HSOL. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 19:15:58 EDT From: KindTaper@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira - no effort wasted In a message dated 7/27/04 6:47:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, colin@tantra-apso.com writes: << sort of makes one think she wasted her efforts after Hejira? 1976 is the last eyar she did anything wonderful? I'd say TI and NRH wouldnbe on my list along with Hej and HSOL.>> One of my favorite things by Joni, something I would die on an island with, is the concert she performed at the Gene Autry Museum on January 26, 1995. During this set, she plays new songs and old songs, but a couple of my favorites from the set are "Cherokee Louise", "Sex Kills" and "Night Ride Home". Those are all later songs, and I think they are great. I even bought "Dog Eat Dog" last week and thought it was good. Different, but still really good, and I especially love the first song on the album. I just got a Quiex II vinyl pressing of "Wild Things Run Fast" over the weekend and can't wait to check that out either. My post was not intended to poo-poo on anyone's favorite album by her, whether early or late. It was simply intended to praise a "Hejira", a certain favorite. My favorite Joni song of all time still might be "Song to a Seagull", and that's about as early as you can get, but I don't think it's necessarily her *best* work. Take care, Wes ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 17:22:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) - --- Thom Jurek says: >> "The Beginning of Survival is a whopping, 16-track collection...(snip snip) "The Recoccuring Dream "the Windfall (Everything For Nothing)," "Dog Eat Doc," "The Beat Of Black Wings," "Fiction," "Sex Kills," "The Three Great Stimulants," "Lakota," "Ethiopia," "No Apologies," "The Magdalene Laundries," "Slouching Towards Bethlehem," "Passion Play," "Cool Water," "Impossible Dreamer." By my count, that's only 15. What's the missing track and where in the sequence does it belong? I put all 5 catalogue cds (CMIAR, DED, NRH, TI, TTT)in my 5 disc player and programmed this sequence. Except for the annoying delay between tracks, it's a nice sound (Hey, how could it be otherwise, it's Joni!) Accept it for what it is folks, music from our Joan, and while she is still on this earth with us. For as we all know, life is too short. Be well everyone. Brian nw (now writing): A check to the Mary Grace Kunz Memorial Account c/o Yolo Federal Credit Union 266 W. Main St. PO Box 657 Woodland CA 95776 Thank you very much ~~ ===== After twenty-three years you'd think I could find A way to let you know somehow That I want to see your smiling face Forty-five years from now. --Stan Rogers __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 21:11:33 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: If Joni released new material Richard wrote: > If she did release new material, we wouldn't be saying these things, we'd > even overlook the ghoulish hand! Uh uh. I'd bet a paycheck that someone would say, "Why won't she do another [insert your favorite Joni album here]???" The complaints never cease (to amaze me). Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 18:11:48 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: BS, 100% JC (aka tBoS) Steven Polifka wrote: > > I'm gonna sound like a skipping record here. Doesn't anyone have the balls to write her management company- or her, about future plans for a boxed set? (Since so many seem to whine about it.) More like pine for it. On this subject, I was watching a vid of Joni's 1996 appearance on "CBS This Morning", and during the Q & A session, she actually said she was working on putting together a box set. So there is hope.... RR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 20:15:28 -0500 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: Joni's hand <> Just a wild thought, but do you suppose Joni's trying to tell us something about herself with her deformed hand from BSN and her green ghoulish hand from TBOS? Perhaps her post-polio syndrome is really taking its toll on her body, particularly in her hands. And this may be why she can no longer play/write new songs. She may truly be beginning her own survival of sorts. Mia _________________________________________________________________ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 18:25:26 -0700 From: Mike Friedman Subject: Re: Hejira is the greatest thing ever... I do this too...Everytime I go on a trip it's the first CD in the deck...... "I'm travelling in some vehicle, sitting in some cafe..." :-) Mike On Jul 27, 2004, at 2:08 PM, Happy The Man wrote: > The album was pointaint for me. I was 18 and couldn't get enough of > the > road. But it all came together on Highway 14 outside of Mojave heading > toward Bishop and a well deserved backpacking trip. I loaded up my 63 > chevy > pickup (with three on the tree) and headed out after work for a long > weekend > in the mountains. I hit Red Rock Canyon right around sunset and the > stereo > was blowing though my Optimus speakers (woo hoo for radio shack). > Just put > yourself in the desert with the sun glowing yellow on the red > background and > your not more then and hours drive from Edwards Air Force base and here > comes the song and the opening line....i was traveling across the > burning > desert... It was the start of a great trip and it only got better, > this was > the album I was going to travel by for the next three years. Not > until NRH > did I find another travel album like this. > > Peace, Craig > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 3:21 PM > Subject: Hejira is the greatest thing ever... > > >> The album and the song... >> >> I can't stop listening to this album. I don't know if it's the sound >> of > her >> guitar, the lushness of her voice, the way she interacts with Jaco, or > what. >> The word that goes through my mind almost every time I listen to it >> is: >> >> *mature* >> >> I know that some folks only like her early work (I used to be one, >> Court > and >> Spark was as far as I'd go), but if you have never heard this album, I > urge >> you to pick it up right away. It's brilliant from start to finish. Her > voice >> sounds well seasoned and like she's experienced much of the good and >> bad > of life >> by this time. One of my favorite moments on the album is near the end >> of >> "Amelia", when the other guitar player's guitar is made to sound like >> a > pedal >> steel. I visualize crusing along in a plane, around the time of sunset > when the sky >> looks orange, and looking out the window at the sun and clouds and >> seeing >> some birds fly by. >> >> Have a great day. >> >> Wes > > ========================== "Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)" - --Walt Whitman Mike Friedman San Francisco, CA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 18:19:09 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Re: Jerry Notaro wrote: > Then why re-release the Geffen material, which has been just recently > re-released? It is the arguable majority opinion it is her weakest, > so why not re-release other, stronger material, with maybe alternate > recordings, or live versions? I think that is what most of list > members are expressing. Well guess what? It isn't our choice. It's Joni's. The last time I checked, she doesn't consider herself to be subject to the wishes of her record buying public. She's always done what she pretty much wanted to do. Why should she change now? She's given us a *lot* of incredible music over the years. She's going to be 61 in November. If she doesn't feel the urge to write new music, so be it. She's earned the right to take a break or (heaven forbid!) retire, imo. And I refuse to believe that she's releasing TBOS just to be putting out product. Why would she need to do that? Is she hard up? I doubt it. I think she wants to make a statement with this release. You don't have to like it but why beat her up for it? Hasn't she given us enough? Mark ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #213 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)