From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #191 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, July 6 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 191 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: A studio of one's own - ["G'n H" ] Re: On this day in Joni History ["Steven Polifka" ] Re: Songs that mention 4th of July [waytoblu ] Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #297 [Ladygrammy@aol.com] Offer: Perpetual Joni Covers Train: Volumes 41-50 of JM Covers [Doug Subject: RE: A studio of one's own - Thank you for your great post, Mark! Yes, we won't never know. But we will still need a couple of Virginias, Jonis and others to manifest for the rights of each sex (to have a studio of one's own, 500 pounds per year and educational aspect that encourages them as much as men). Then there's no need to speculate anymore what one would have become. There are still obstacles for women in almost every business, and just becouse of their sex. The list of talented wives, who have stepped behind with their ambitions for their talented husbands, is enorme. Aino Sibelius, Frida Kahlo (luckily she started to paint later), Clara Schumann (already mentioned), Wanda Toscanini, etc... Okay, then there is this chinese saying, that says something like "the more shitty the mould is the more beautiful the lotus becomes..." : ) G*n H - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 14:34:18 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: A studio of one's own - a female Schubert? or Beehthoven? In 1929 Virginia Woolf published the essay 'A Room of One's Own'... ..500 pounds per year and a room of one's own were her specific requirements. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 09:33:58 -0500 From: "Steven Polifka" Subject: Re: On this day in Joni History Hey Jim, Last fall there was a special on Discovery or on PBS (I forget) about Amelia, and that some salvage company may have found her plane 100 or more miles North of her destination, Howland Island. I have not heard any more news on this. There were two books in the 80's written about the each author's search for her/plane; one author's trip and search hindered the other's (much to his chagrin.) Niether came up with anything other than rumors and legends, speculations and educated guesses. Amelia, it was just a false alarm... Steve >>> "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" 07/02/04 10:05AM >>> According to the New York Times, "On July 2, 1937, aviator Amelia Earhart and navigator Fred Noonan disappeared over the Pacific Ocean while attempting to make the first round-the-world flight at the equator." This morning I lift my coffee mug in the names of Amelia & Fred. They taught me that courage is a noble trait and that a backup method of navigating never hurt either. All the best, Lama ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 11:19:57 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: waytoblu Subject: Re: Songs that mention 4th of July - --- Randy Remote wrote: > Night Ride Home-Joni Mitchell > Saturday In The Park-Chicago > Fourth of July-X > BORN ON THE BAYOU.. Creedence Jack Straw -- Grateful Dead ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 12:22:26 EDT From: Ladygrammy@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #297 As much as I would love to talk about Joni, my favorite of all time. I need to request that I be removed from this list. I don't have time to read it anymore, as I have a 4 1/2 year old child. Thank you for your help. Jan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 12:32:53 -0400 From: Doug Subject: Offer: Perpetual Joni Covers Train: Volumes 41-50 of JM Covers Thanks to Kenny B, I can offer this set to the first reply and promise to re-offer. I still have Covers 31-40 I'm looking for Covers 1-10 Doug Eric's original post: In order to enable latecomers to the list or new traders have a chance of listening to Bob Muller's incredible compilation of covers of Joni's songs - some 1500 in all - this begins the launch of the Perpetual Joni Covers Trains. For those not familiar with trading trains, here is how they work. When the disks come to you, you make copies of as much of the contents as you want, and then you post back to this list offering to pass the disks along to the next person. You do not keep the originals -- you keep the copies you made for yourself. On most trains, the convention is that you make the copies and send the masters along within two days. For these trains, you must agree to turn them around within one week. Sometimes the offer goes unclaimed. Bob and I expect that to happen from time to time. So, by participating, you agree to just hang on to the disks and then make another offer a month or so later (or to respond if somebody posts a grovel looking for them). In theory, if everybody takes good care of the disks, wrapping them well, not letting them get scratched, etc. and passes them along, these covers will run on the tracks for years. Bob copied 50+ disks for me to launch this and I have copied them so there is a LOT of time sunk into offering these up. Nobody is going to monitor the progress of these trains so if you participate and then lose the disks or fail to reoffer them, you will have kept others from enjoying them. When you post an offer, please include these "rules". One final note, I know a few folks like to compress these into MP3s. If you want to, go ahead but please do not send MP3s to the next person - MP3s permanently delete some of the "data" and sound quality degrades so please pass the masters along. So, anybody who would like to receive volumes 41-50, please send me: 1. Your mailing address and 2. Your promise to reoffer, etc. If you want to know what is on the disks, please see this link: http://www.jmdl.com/covers/byvolume.cfm . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 11:04:39 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: A studio of one's own - a female Schubert? or Beehthoven? http://www.ambache.co.uk/wNavigate.htm this is a great site, thank you catherine! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 23:56:26 -0500 From: "Music Is Special" Subject: Beginning of Survival JONI RELEASE JULY 27 Current issue of ICE says on page 11: The first theme-oriented collection by Joni Mitchell coalesces on July 27 as Beginning of Survival, a raft of socially conscious material that reaches stores via Geffen. Project coordinator Mike Ragogna tells ICE "Joni feels this is her most important collection. The 16 songs are sequenced thematically; she lays out warning signs about what's happening in politics, religion, ecology. She's saying "its time to take a look" trying to raise the consciousness of people to deal with issues like these. And she's suggesting a place to start." Mitchell adorns the digipak with about 10 newly created, original paintings ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 15:05:34 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Silky Veils and If You See Her Say Hello Laura printed the lyrics to Bob Dylan's "If You See Her Say Hello". This may have been posted while I was off list (past 6 weeks), but WFUV broadcast a "Blood on the Tracks" project last week, featuring a tribute concert of performers covering the cuts on that album. Laura continued with "However, for me Joni's songs like Blue, The Silky Veils of Ardor, All I Want, and Lesson In Survival convey a romanticism that captures my imagination much more than Bob's. " I also love the songs named above from Blue and FTR (Lesson in Survival / Let The Wind Carry Me being my favorite section of FTR, the rest of which is also fantastic). However, I recall pretty strongly a post on this list documenting that Joni's version of Silky Veils seems to be merely a re-working of a public domain Appalachian folk song. Can anyone point us at that documentation ? (I know that the opening line is from a Negro spiritual by that name, but the song I am referring to is almost identical to Joni's). And, has anyone heard Joni give an explanation of that 'phenomenon', given that she claimed credit for having written the words and music ? Is it possible that the chronology got reversed, somehow ? Further to that, Dylan made the front page of the Wall Street Journal a year or so ago when it was uncovered that lyrics appearing in some songs from a recent album of his had been lifted verbatim from a book written (in English, I presume) by a little known Japanese author. As I recall (my recollection of the details is pretty soft, to say the least, but I read the article in the WSJ, so I'm certain about the basics), the author just wanted an acknowledgment of some sort, which I believe was later forthcoming (i.e., no denial from Dylan's camp). Hmmmmm. "I am no saint, turn down your bed". Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 15:36:32 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Silky Veils and If You See Her Say Hello As far as I can tell, Joni's song weaves together lines from several different folk songs. It's as if she is associating her former innocence and naivete about love with the "innocent" and "romantic" folk song tradition. She is definitely referencing: Poor Wayfaring Stranger Come All You Fair and Tender Ladies The Water Is Wide And maybe some others, although these are the ones that I recognize. > However, I recall pretty strongly a post on this list documenting >that Joni's version of Silky Veils seems to be merely a re-working of a >public domain Appalachian folk song. Can anyone point us at that >documentation ? >(I know that the opening line is from a Negro spiritual by that name, but the >song I am referring to is almost identical to Joni's). And, has anyone heard >Joni give an explanation of that 'phenomenon', given that she claimed >credit for >having written the words and music ? Is it possible that the chronology got >reversed, somehow ? > >Bobsart - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 14:21:48 -0600 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: Silky Veils of Ardor unveiled! Shocking evidence! Bob wrote: > I recall pretty strongly a post on this list documenting that > Joni's version of Silky Veils seems to be merely a re-working > of a public domain Appalachian folk song. Can anyone point > us at that documentation ? Joni used a lot of influences in this song. Every verse is (in my opinion) a lyrical reworking of another song. Verse One: "Wayfaring Stranger", a Negro Spiritual that can be traced back to the mid 1800's. It goes: I am a poor wayfaring stranger Traveling through this world alone There is no sickness, toil or danger In that fair land to which I go Joni sang: I am a poor wayfaring stranger Traveling through all these highs and lows I heard there was no sickness and no toil or danger Just mercy and plenty where peaceful waters flow Verse Two: "Fair and Tender Ladies", a song that has been traced back to the 19th century. It goes: Come all ye fair and tender ladies Take warning how you court your men They're like a star on a summer morning They first appear and then they're gone Joni sang: Come all you fair and tender school girls Be careful now when you court young men They are like the stars on a summer morning They sparkle up the night and they're gone again Daybreak gone again Verse Three: "Love is Pleasing" is a traditional Irish tune. It has many varied verses, depending on the part of the country in which it is sung. One version contains this verse: If I had known then before I courted that love would be such a killing crime I'd locked my heart in a box of gold and tied it up with a silver twine. Joni sang: If I'd only seen through the silky veils of ardor What a killing crime this love can be I would have locked up my heart in a golden sheath of armor And kept its crazy beating under strictest secrecy High security Verse Four: "Running Bear", was a rockabilly hit for Johnny Preston in 1959. It tells the story of two lovers, each standing on opposite banks of a river. It goes, in part: He couldn't swim the raging river, because the river was too wide, He couldn't reach his little White Dove, Standing on the other side. Joni sang: I wish I had the wings Of Noah's pretty little white dove So I could fly this raging river to reach the one I love But I have no wings and the water is so wide There! Proof positive that Joni doesn't have an original thought in her head! (That, ummm, was a joke...) Actually, to pull all those influences into one succinct, coherent, and compelling song is nothing short of brilliant! Les, today's historian. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 16:28:45 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Silky Veils and If You See Her Say Hello Deb replied: "As far as I can tell, Joni's song weaves together lines from several different folk songs. It's as if she is associating her former innocence and naivete about love with the "innocent" and "romantic" folk song tradition. She is definitely referencing: Poor Wayfaring Stranger Come All You Fair and Tender Ladies The Water Is Wide And maybe some others, although these are the ones that I recognize." I looked up the lyrics to Come All You Fair and Tender Ladies (or Maidens). There were a large number of variations of this traditional Appalachian folk song, often with the verses in different sequences (and some with different verses), but there can be little doubt that Joni was simply offering a re-edited rendition of her own, at least lyrically. Is her melody unique, or did she largely borrow that, too ? PS - there was also a rendition credited to Jerry Garcia. Here are two of the ones I found with a quick search: Come All Ye Fair And Tender Ladies Come all ye fair and tender ladies Take warning how you court young men They're like a bright star on a cloudy morning They will first appear and then they're gone. They'll tell to you some loving story To make you think that they love you true Straightway they'll go and court some other Oh that's the love that they have for you. I wish I were some little sparrow And I had wings and I could fly I would fly away to my false true lover And while he'll talk I would sit and cry. But I am not some little sparrow I have no wings nor can I fly So I'll sit down here in grief and sorrow And try to pass my troubles by. I wish I had known before I courted That love had been so hard to gain I'd of locked my heart in a box of golden And fastened it down with a silver chain. Young men never cast your eye on beauty For beauty is a thing that will decay For the prettiest flowers that grow in the garden How soon they'll wither, will wither and fade away. Come All Ye Fair And Tender Ladies Come all ye fair and tender ladies Take warning how you court your men They're like a star on a summer morning They first appear and then they're gone They'll tell to you some loving story And they'll make you think that they love you well And away they'll go and court some other And leave you there in grief to dwell I wish I was on some tall mountain Where the ivy rocks were black as ink I'd write a letter to my false true lover Whose cheeks are like the morning pink I wish I was a little sparrow And I had wings to fly so high I'd fly to the arms of my false true lover And when he'd ask, I would deny Oh love is handsome, love is charming And love is pretty while it's new But love grows cold as love grows older And fades away like morning dew ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 14:49:42 -0600 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: RE: Silky Veils and If You See Her Say Hello > Is her melody > unique, or did she largely borrow that, too ? In my opinion, when she sings the line "Fair and tender schoolgirls" she is loosely quoting the original melody but the rest is all Joni. Les ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 18:39:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: Silky Veils and If You See Her Say Hello - --- Les Irvin wrote: > > Is her melody > > unique, or did she largely borrow that, too ? > > In my opinion, when she sings the line "Fair and > tender schoolgirls" she is > loosely quoting the original melody but the rest is > all Joni. > To me, it sounds like she took what might originally have been a major key and put it into a minor key and went on from there. Or something like that. It does sound kind of like the original, but with enough changes, that she didn't just take the exact melody. Given Joni's weird tunings, I have no idea what key her version ends up being in. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 00:46:22 EDT From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Just for you Buck! Hey Buck, After demeaning Kate and all us on the left I thought you might enjoy this. By the way if this was such a right war why are you still here? It might be a good time for you to come out of retirement... Peace (do ya get it?) Mingus Sunday, July 4th, 2004 My First Wild Week with "Fahrenheit 9/11"... By Michael Moore Friends, Where do I begin? This past week has knocked me for a loop. "Fahrenheit 9/11," the #1 movie in the country, the largest grossing documentary ever. My head is spinning. Didn't we just lose our distributor 8 weeks ago? Did Karl Rove really fail to stop this? Is Bush packing? Each day this week I was given a new piece of information from the press that covers Hollywood, and I barely had time to recover from the last tidbit before the next one smacked me upside the head: ** More people saw "Fahrenheit 9/11" in one weekend than all the people who saw "Bowling for Columbine" in 9 months. ** "Fahrenheit 9/11" broke "Rocky IIIs" record for the biggest box office opening weekend ever for any film that opened in less than a thousand theaters. ** "Fahrenheit 9/11" beat the opening weekend of "Return of the Jedi." ** "Fahrenheit 9/11" instantly went to #2 on the all-time list for largest per-theater average ever for a film that opened in wide-release. How can I ever thank all of you who went to see it? These records are mind-blowing. They have sent shock waves through Hollywood and, more importantly, through the White House. But it didn't just stop there. The response to the movie then went into the Twilight Zone. Surfing through the dial I landed on the Fox broadcasting network which was airing the NASCAR race live last Sunday to an audience of millions of Americans -- and suddenly the announcers were talking about how NASCAR champ Dale Earnhardt, Jr. took his crew to see Fahrenheit 9/11 the night before. FOX sportscaster Chris Myers delivered Earnhardts review straight out of his mouth and into the heartland of America: He said hey, it'll be a good bonding experience no matter what your political belief. It's a good thing as an American to go see. Whoa! NASCAR fans you cant go deeper into George Bush territory than that! White House moving vans START YOUR ENGINES! Then there was Roger Friedman from the Fox News Channel giving our film an absolutely glowing review, calling it a really brilliant piece of work, and a film that members of all political parties should see without fail. Richard Goldstein of the Village Voice surmised that Bush is already considered a goner so Rupert Murdoch might be starting to curry favor with the new administration. I don't know about that, but Ive never heard a decent word toward me from Fox. So, after I was revived, I wondered if a love note to me from Sean Hannity was next. How about Lettermans Top Ten List: Top Ten George W. Bush Complaints About "Fahrenheit 9/11": 10. That actor who played the President was totally unconvincing 9. It oversimplified the way I stole the election 8. Too many of them fancy college-boy words 7. If Michael Moore had waited a few months, he could have included the part where I get him deported 6. Didn't have one of them hilarious monkeys who smoke cigarettes and gives people the finger 5. Of all Michael Moore's accusations, only 97% are true 4. Not sure - - I passed out after a piece of popcorn lodged in my windpipe 3. Where the hell was Spider-man? 2. Couldn't hear most of the movie over Cheney's foul mouth 1. I thought this was supposed to be about dodgeball But it was the reactions and reports we received from theaters around the country that really sent me over the edge. One theatre manager after another phoned in to say that the movie was getting standing ovations as the credits rolled in places like Greensboro, NC and Oklahoma City -- and that they were having a hard time clearing the theater afterwards because people were either too stunned or they wanted to sit and talk to their neighbors about what they had just seen. In Trumbull, CT, one woman got up on her seat after the movie and shouted "Let's go have a meeting!" A man in San Francisco took his shoe off and threw it at the screen when Bush appeared at the end. Ladies church groups in Tulsa were going to see it, and weeping afterwards. It was this last group that gave lie to all the yakking pundits who, before the movie opened, declared that only the hard-core "choir" would go to see "Fahrenheit 9/11." They couldn't have been more wrong. Theaters in the Deep South and the Midwest set house records for any film theyd ever shown. Yes, it even sold out in Peoria. And Lubbock, Texas. And Anchorage, Alaska! Newspaper after newspaper wrote stories in tones of breathless disbelief about people who called themselves Independents and Republicans walking out of the movie theater shaken and in tears, proclaiming that they could not, in good conscience, vote for George W. Bush. The New York Times wrote of a conservative Republican woman in her 20s in Pensacola, Florida who cried through the film, and told the reporter: It really makes me question what I feel about the president... it makes me question his motives Newsday reported on a self-described ardent Bush/Cheney supporter who went to see the film on Long Island, and his quiet reaction afterwards. He said, "It's really given me pause to think about what's really going on. There was just too much - too much to discount." The man then bought three more tickets for another showing of the film. The Los Angeles Times found a mother who had supported [Bush] fiercely at a theater in Des Peres, Missouri: Emerging from Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11, her eyes wet, Leslie Hanser said she at last understood. My emotions are just.... She trailed off, waving her hands to show confusion. I feel like we haven't seen the whole truth before." All of this had to be the absolute worst news for the White House to wake up to on Monday morning. I guess they were in such a stupor, they "gave" Iraq back to, um, Iraq two days early! News editors told us that they were being "bombarded" with e-mails and calls from the White House (read: Karl Rove), trying to spin their way out of this mess by attacking it and attacking me. Bush spokesman Dan Bartlett had told the White House press corps that the movie was "outrageously false" -- even though he said he hadn't seen the movie. He later told CNN that "This is a film that doesn't require us to actually view it to know that it's filled with factual inaccuracies." At least they're consistent. They never needed to see a single weapon of mass destruction before sending our kids off to die. Many news shows were more than eager to buy the White House spin. After all, that is a big part of what "Fahrenheit" is about -- how the lazy, compliant media bought all the lies from the Bush administration about the need to invade Iraq. They took the Kool-Aid offered by the White House and rarely, if ever, did our media ask the hard questions that needed to be asked before the war started. Because the movie "outs" the mainstream media for their failures and their complicity with the Bush administration -- who can ever forget their incessant, embarrassing cheerleading as the troops went off to war, as though it was all just a game -- the media was not about to let me get away with anything now resembling a cultural phenomenon. On show after show, they went after me with the kind of viciousness you would have hoped they had had for those who were lying about the necessity for invading a sovereign nation that was no threat to us. I don't blame our well-paid celebrity journalists -- they look like a bunch of ass-kissing dopes in my movie, and I guess I'd be pretty mad at me, too. After all, once the NASCAR fans see "Fahrenheit 9/11," will they ever believe a single thing they see on ABC/NBC/CBS news again? In the next week or so, I will recount my adventures through the media this past month (I will also be posting a full FAQ on my website soon so that you can have all the necessary backup and evidence from the film when you find yourself in heated debate with your conservative brother-in-law!). For now, please know the following: Every single fact I state in "Fahrenheit 9/11" is the absolute and irrefutable truth. This movie is perhaps the most thoroughly researched and vetted documentary of our time. No fewer than a dozen people, including three teams of lawyers and the venerable one-time fact-checkers from The New Yorker went through this movie with a fine-tooth comb so that we can make this guarantee to you. Do not let anyone say this or that isn't true. If they say that, they are lying. Let them know that the OPINIONS in the film are mine, and anyone certainly has a right to disagree with them. And the questions I pose in the movie, based on these irrefutable facts, are also mine. And I have a right to ask them. And I will continue to ask them until they are answered. In closing, let me say that the most heartening response to the film has come from our soldiers and their families. Theaters in military towns across the country reported packed houses. Our troops know the truth. They have seen it first-hand. And many of them could not believe that here was a movie that was TRULY on their side -- the side of bringing them home alive and never sending them into harms way again unless it's the absolute last resort. Please take a moment to read this wonderful story from the daily paper in Fayetteville, NC, where Fort Bragg is located. It broke my heart to read this, the reactions of military families and the comments of an infantrymans wife publicly backing my movie -- and it gave me the resolve to make sure as many Americans as possible see this film in the coming weeks. Thank you again, all of you, for your support. Together we did something for the history books. My apologies to "Return of the Jedi." We'll make it up by producing "Return of the Texan to Crawford" in November. May the farce be with you, but not for long, Michael Moore www.michaelmoore.com mmflint@aol.com P.S. You can read letters from people around the country recounting their own experiences at the theater, and their reactions to the film by going here. P.P.S. Also, Im going to start blogging! Tonight! Come on over and check it out. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 02:19:30 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: July 6 On July 6 the following articles were published: 1968: "Joni Mitchell" - Rolling Stone (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=286 1983: "Joni Mitchell shows shes still free spirit" - Detroit News (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=977 1983: "Joni Mitchell: Ray of Sunlight" - Detroit Free Press (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=978 1998: "Concert springs from roots of Woodstock" - USA Today (Concert Preview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=395 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #191 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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