From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #175 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, June 22 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 175 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Covers 21- 30 on offer [Doug ] Re; Only an artist [steph@cix.co.uk (Anita Gabrielle Tedder)] Re: Only an artist [dsk ] Re: Beginning of Survival [Brenda ] Re: Beginning of Survival [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Amour, Mama, not cheap display [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: Amour, Mama, not cheap display [JRMCo1@aol.com] Today's Library Links: June 22 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:44:22 -0400 From: Doug Subject: Covers 21- 30 on offer Thanks to Emiliano, I can offer Covers 21-30 to the first reply and promise to re-offer Doug Eric's original post: In order to enable latecomers to the list or new traders have a chance of listening to Bob Muller's incredible compilation of covers of Joni's songs - some 1500 in all - this begins the launch of the Perpetual Joni Covers Trains. For those not familiar with trading trains, here is how they work. When the disks come to you, you make copies of as much of the contents as you want, and then you post back to this list offering to pass the disks along to the next person. You do not keep the originals -- you keep the copies you made for yourself. On most trains, the convention is that you make the copies and send the masters along within two days. For these trains, you must agree to turn them around within one week. Sometimes the offer goes unclaimed. Bob and I expect that to happen from time to time. So, by participating, you agree to just hang on to the disks and then make another offer a month or so later (or to respond if somebody posts a grovel looking for them). In theory, if everybody takes good care of the disks, wrapping them well, not letting them get scratched, etc. and passes them along, these covers will run on the tracks for years. Bob copied 50+ disks for me to launch this and I have copied them so there is a LOT of time sunk into offering these up. Nobody is going to monitor the progress of these trains so if you participate and then lose the disks or fail to reoffer them, you will have kept others from enjoying them. When you post an offer, please include these "rules". One final note, I know a few folks like to compress these into MP3s. If you want to, go ahead but please do not send MP3s to the next person - MP3s permanently delete some of the "data" and sound quality degrades so please pass the masters along. So, anybody who would like to receive volumes 21-30, please send me: 1. Your mailing address and 2. Your promise to reoffer, etc. If you want to know what is on the disks, please see this link: http://www.jmdl.com/covers/byvolume.cfm . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 18:12 +0100 (BST) From: steph@cix.co.uk (Anita Gabrielle Tedder) Subject: Re; Only an artist I wrote: "> I felt that Joni has taught me not to expect > anything at all - probably > from anybody and least of all from her. Of course > the paradox is that I > have huge expectations of her and others - but > that's a whole other story." Catherine responded: "Anita, I'm intrigued but not sure what you mean. Do you mean in an "Expect the worse; hope for the best; take what comes" kind of way? Would you mind explaining, please?" In response to Catherine, I think - "Oh blimey, someone asking me to be specific in my ramblings. Now there's a challenge!" :~) I'm not sure if this answers it, but I'll have a go. The Joni lines that come to mind for me are "People will tell you where they've gone they'll tell you where to go, but tell you get there yourself, you never really know." Or " I know no-one's going to show me everything, we all come and go unknown." Or maybe " Why does it come as such a shock to know we really have no-one, only a river of changing faces looking for an ocean." Without wanting to sound too up my bottom, I think I am engaging with my existential angst and, in particular, isolation, search for meaning and death.(Oh, is that all?) In the Joni lines I've just written, I feel that Joni is saying find YOUR way, no-one else knows and we are all essentially alone. You know, the "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him" type thing. I feel people sometimes empower others (gurus, religion, politicians, Joni etc) in order to avoid the existential dilemmas. Where I feel I am paradoxical is that, whilst I intellectually know this, I still long for someone else to KNOW THE WAY and to SHOW ME - but I think that's because dealing with my ultimate demise and isolation are too difficult for me, so I run from that but am also amused by my ridiculous self too which still often craves someone else to take responsibility for my life! OOOOoooo I am such a baby. And then, of course, when someone else has tried to take over my life, I resented them totally and utterly. Put them up on the pedestal and wait five minutes and I'll knock 'em down! Just like most people, probably. Does that make any sense or am I truly disappearing into my bum? :~) Love Anita xx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 15:54:23 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Only an artist Anita Gabrielle Tedder, woman of Angst, wrote: > > The Joni lines that come to mind for me are ... > " Why does it come as such a shock to know we really have no-one, only a > river of changing faces looking for an ocean." What a great line! One image it calls to mind are the photos of NYC sidewalks, packed with people all walking one way. Such pictures make it look like it's so crowded that people are touching each other, but that's usually not the case. Most times there's still space around each person, so there's isolation within the crowd, not only emotionally but physically too. > Without wanting to sound too up my bottom, I think I am engaging with my > existential angst and, in particular, isolation, search for meaning and > death.(Oh, is that all?) In the Joni lines I've just written, I feel that > Joni is saying find YOUR way, no-one else knows and we are all essentially > alone. Anita, I agree about that being part of Joni's message. But, she gives those messages as HER experience and even though she says "you" a lot, she doesn't tell anyone what to do, only what she has done, and we can relate (and learn something about our own journey), or not (and join all those angst-free non-Joni fans in earthly bliss :-). It's Joni's honesty with herself that I've come to expect from her. BS, in any form, doesn't fit with her history and image. Then again, there's the real world where artistic integrity bumps into all sorts of other demands, and Joni's integrity has never been as pure as I like to think it is. In some interview, Joni talked about writing "Big Yellow Taxi" because her manager wanted her to write a hit, so she went off and wrote a hit. The impression I got was that she did it as a game, and enjoyed it, and wasn't hampered by any artistic integrity issues. So maybe this latest compilation has a game/challenge aspect to it also for her, somehow, and we just don't know the whole story yet. > You know, the "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him" type > thing. I feel people sometimes empower others (gurus, religion, > politicians, Joni etc) in order to avoid the existential dilemmas. Where I > feel I am paradoxical is that, whilst I intellectually know this, I still > long for someone else to KNOW THE WAY and to SHOW ME - but I think that's > because dealing with my ultimate demise and isolation are too difficult > for me, The "show me" part is how we all learn, yes? Even as adults. Joni and religion and politics just give me bits and pieces, and make me question things more than I would if I wasn't involved. It's not an either/or situation, either accept everything whole from someone or some organization (not valid), or do it all one's self (not possible). Learning is in the middle somewhere. > so I run from that but am also amused by my ridiculous self too > which still often craves someone else to take responsibility for my life! > OOOOoooo I am such a baby. And then, of course, when someone else has > tried to take over my life, I resented them totally and utterly. Put them > up on the pedestal and wait five minutes and I'll knock 'em down! Just > like most people, probably. > > Does that make any sense or am I truly disappearing into my bum? :~) Questioning it all makes sense. I can see why you're a Joni fan (and some people say it's about the music! Ha!). Debra Shea, in NYC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 13:31:10 -0700 From: Brenda Subject: Re: Beginning of Survival Hi all. It's been a very long time and I've managed to lurk every now and again but with little success in finding time to post. Apologies for dropping in a bit late (and controversially) on this topic, but it sure did stir me from my slumber of nonstop working. On Thursday, June 17, 2004, at 05:32 PM, Catherine McKay wrote: > If she waits too long, most of us will be dead. Maybe she doesn't want it (a box set or an autobiography) to appear until after she's dead. On Thursday, June 17, 2004, at 04:13 PM, Steven Polifka wrote: > I find it hard to believe she would just 'cash in'. > So in that light, could it be possible that she wants to make a > statement with this new compilation of hers that has nothing to do with > shirking her fans- or cashing in? I say YOU GO GIRL! I think it's very funny to imagine that anybody is doing this for the money. No one knows better than Joni (and the accountants at Universal) that those records did not sell. It's the worst bet imaginable to spend money repackaging music that didn't sell the first time because the rational (and in almost every case proven) expectation is that it will sell even less the second or third time around. I firmly believe that this is happening because Joni wants it to. Universal isn't doing this without her, there is no contractual obligation and no way would a production coordinator put words in Joni's mouth. I seriously question whether she had reversion rights in her Geffen deal, but I'm willing to bet she has coupling rights and a record like this cannot even be done without her approval. (Randy - reversion rights used to be very, very rare. If Joni has them, it is likely to be 30 years but not 10. That's more like a license deal which is far more prevalent today and was practically non-existent back then. Van Morrison, Rolling Stones & Bowie come to mind, but not many others.) She is participating fully. And Joni isn't the only musician who is working on something like this right now. There will be other records out this summer and fall from artists who want to say something about the times we live in. There are executives that I've worked with in the past who have ditched entertainment to work political campaigns. There's something going on; it's not 1968 or 1972. It's today. I think this record will matter to some people. Just not many of the ones here. (Except Lori maybe. Good on you for holding it down!) But that's ok because I don't think it is for the people who have Joni's entire catalog. And she is under no obligation to serve us either. If that makes some people drop out of her fan club or stop checking for her new records, so be it. I don't think it's going to change her choices and she certainly doesn't need the money. I also find very little reason as to why this compromises her career or her integrity. Joni is still one of the most respected popular songwriters alive and this record isn't going to change that. And who are we to say that she should rerecord these songs acoustically to satisfy us, especially if she thinks these are the definitive versions? She's allowed to believe in it even if her loyal fans (of which this list is a tiny segment) think it's bullshit. And really, how can any of us question her belief? We don't have to like what she's doing, but we have no clue as to what she believes or not. For me, out of respect I take her at her word and leave it at that. In my book, Hejira alone is worth what I've paid for the entire Joni collection. So as far as I'm concerned, she can do whatever the hell she wants. Brenda n.p.: Zero 7 - "Spinning" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 19:23:27 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Beginning of Survival Brenda writes: << In my book, Hejira alone is worth what I've paid for the entire Joni collection. So as far as I'm concerned, she can do whatever the hell she wants. >> Say amen, somebody! That's the only word I can think to add to this perfectly stated post. Thanks, Brenda. - --Smurf "I DON'T. Buy the tomatoes with. The stems. On them. They don't. Degrade. They go. Down the sink. And into the WATER. Then. They get lodged in the throats of little. OTTERS." - --Christopher Walken, as quoted -- and punctuated -- by Popbitch ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 23:34:06 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Amour, Mama, not cheap display Is "In France They Kiss On Main Street" the best song ever written about young love and rock 'n roll and rebellion, or what? If there's ever been a better song, well, I forget because I am old! This is one of those Joni songs I never listened to (or paid attention to) much. Then Jody gave me a copy of "The Hissing Demos" for my birthday last month (among many other lovely and expensive baubles and trinkets!) and I am just knocked out by the simple, stripped down Joni-with-guitar version of this song. And great lyrics! I think I probably read them once in about '75 and never paid any attention to them again: lyrics like "broken in churches and schools and molded to middle class circumstance" and "feel so wild you could break somebody's heart just doing the latest dance craze." How about poor beleaguered Myrtle "fading in a suburban room?" And I guess this must've been the first mention in Joni's work of Louise, poor thing. Anyway, I am just knocked out by this song now and I figured if I can't share that with you people, then something's horrifically wrong! - --Smurf b rolling, rolling, rock 'n' rolling In France They Kiss On Main Street by Joni Mitchell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Downtown My darling dime store thief In the War of Independence Rock 'n' roll rang sweet as victory Under neon signs A girl was in bloom And a woman was fading In a suburban room I said take me to the dance Do you want to dance? I love to dance And I told him They don't take chances They seem so removed from romance They've been broken in churches and schools And molded to middle class circumstance And we were rolling rolling rock 'n' rolling Downtown The dance halls and cafes Feel so wild you could break somebody's heart Just doing the latest dance craze Gail and Louise In those push-up brassieres Tight dresses and rhinestone rings Drinking up the band's beers Young love was kissing under bridges Kissing in cars kissing in cafes And we were walking down Main Street Kisses like bright flags hung on holidays In France they kiss on Main Street Amour, mama, not cheap display And we were rolling, rolling, rock 'n' rolling Downtown In the pinball arcade With his head full of pool hall pitches And songs from the hit parade He'd be singing "Bye, Bye, Love" While he's racking up his free play Let those rock 'n' roll choir boys Come and carry us away Sometimes Chickie had the car Or Ron had a car Or Lead Foot Melvin with his hot-wire head We'd all go looking for a party Looking to raise Jesus up from the dead And I'd be kissing in the back seat Thrilling to the Brando-like things that he said And we'd be rolling rolling rock 'n' rolling - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Copyright B) 1975; Crazy Crow Music "I DON'T. Buy the tomatoes with. The stems. On them. They don't. Degrade. They go. Down the sink. And into the WATER. Then. They get lodged in the throats of little. OTTERS." - --Christopher Walken, as quoted -- and punctuated -- by Popbitch ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 02:10:38 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Amour, Mama, not cheap display Smurf writes: > Is "In France They Kiss On Main Street" the best song ever written about > young love and rock 'n roll and rebellion, or what? Word. I'd say it is. "Papa Don't Preach" can't hold a candle to it. But now you got me thinking. How many times over the years has Joni alluded to her mother in song. (And don't give me that "it's not really *her* mother it's the *character's* mother" stuff. You know what I mean. ;-) Just off the top of my head there's Little Green, Facelift, this song...and I know there must be more... Anyone got one? - -Julius n.p.- Aretha Franklin, live, backed by a full gospel choir, singing: "Mary Don't You Weep" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 02:15:39 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: June 22 On June 22 the following article was published: 1996: "Why Graham Nash holds Ottawa dear" - Ottawa Citizen (Biography) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=233 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #175 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)