From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #169 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, June 17 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 169 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Beginning of Survival JONI RELEASE JULY 27 ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] I'm curious about something [Lori Fye ] The Beginning of Survival - LOL [Lori Fye ] Re: I'm curious about something [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Turbulent Indigo [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: On this sad day, a prayer [Michael Paz ] Drums and Jonifest 2004 ["Martin Giles" ] Re: I'm curious about something [Catherine McKay ] Joni Mitchell VS Angry Mexican DJ's [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] A tiny voice in the wilderness? JC Re: Reoccuring ["Russell Bowden" Subject: Beginning of Survival JONI RELEASE JULY 27 There it is. The new stuff is, >about 10 newly created, original paintings> I'll pass. The torch has been passed. She's done plenty of great stuff already. She's more than earned a retirement. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 19:11:46 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Beginning of Survival JONI RELEASE JULY 27 Dear Grumpy- She is bound to get a wild hair sooner or later I am still hopeful. At least me get some new paintings. Paz (having a martini thinking of MG and you all esp. Julius who called me on his way to the memorial. Wish I could be there) >> THE BEGINNING OF SURVIVAL features tracks from DOG EAT DOG >> (1985), CHALK MARK IN A RAINSTORM (1988), NIGHT RIDE HOME >> (1991), TURBULENT INDIGO (1994) and TAMING THE TIGER (1998). > > Does this release frighten anyone besides me? I hate to think that Joni has > resorted to the "let's repackage my old material in a zillion ways" phase of > her career. Will this end up like The Who's old material has? "Let's see, > which of these 17 greatest hits packages shall I buy?..." > > I think it's sad that she's once again in a "political mood" but the only > new idea she can cast upon it is a few liner notes. > > Les... grumpy, I guess. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:06:06 -0400 From: Chuck Eisenhardt Subject: Re: [NortheastJonifest] Re: Jonifest 2004 Why would Joni NOT come this year? Did she have other plans, all of a sudden??? Full Moon has such a great lawn for copter landings, doesn't it? Chuck On Tuesday, June 15, 2004, at 02:15 PM, Lori Fye wrote: > May I chime in here? > > Ashara wrote: > >> I feel at this point, I should notify Full Moon so they can sell off >> the rooms >> that are not taken. With the numbers the way they are, I feel it is >> only fair >> to allow them to sell rooms if we are not able to fill the center the >> way we >> have in the past. If I do this, it means of course, that we no longer >> will >> have the place exclusively, and it will most likely affect our >> ability to come >> back to Full Moon on an exclusive basis, if at all. > > Folks, we went through this same thing last year (again and again the > same > situation), and it created a lot of stress for Ashara in particular, > as she > literally puts her name on the dotted line to guarantee certain things > so that > we can have this fest at the Full Moon. It's SUCH a lovely place to > relax and > do pretty much whatever you want, you really would not regret spending > a long > weekend there. > > If you have any reservations at all about going to JoniFest this year, > nix them > and GO! Life is short and ... you just never know ... this could be > the year > La Joan decides to surprise us all and show up herself. > > What if Joni showed up at JoniFest and you weren't there? What a > bummer that > would be! You would surely have tears streaming down your poddy face. > ; ) > > Get thyself to http://www.jonifest.com right now and sign up!! > > See you there ... > > Lori > > P.S. - Also visit http://lrfye.lunarpages.com/jonifestfood.html and > http://www.hatstand.org/gallery/album25 > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> > Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/9rHolB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NortheastJonifest/ > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > NortheastJonifest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 18:53:59 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Beginning of Survival JONI RELEASE JULY 27 - another thought Bob wrote: > Your heart is in the right place Lori, but your basic teen and 20-something > wouldn't give this collection the time of day and would dive for the 'eject' > button before the first track was through. Most of these songs suck. Teens > think of CD's as VERY disposable items. I guess I'm spoiled by my cousin's daughter (who is my first cousin, once removed, I guess) Lauren, who is 17 and debates competitively on her high school team and wants nothing less than to be president of the U.S. She is extremely political, well informed, and can hold her own in a conversation with any adult. Lauren has *almost* managed to get her parents to renounce the Republican party altogether (her 60-year-old father announced last year, while watching Bush & Cheney on the news: "My God! Those guys are just COVERED IN OIL, aren't they?!" and this was a revelation to him). Lauren listens to all kinds of music, appreciates and enjoys 80s stuff, and I've been planning to make her a gift of my DED vinyl along with a DED cd because I know she would dig it. When her mom (who is 51) heard Lauren listening to the Indigo Girls, Ani DiFranco, and Lilith Fair cds, she offered her own Joni records to Lauren and said, "If you like that, then you'll probably like this too." Lauren immediately became a Joni fan. Upon learning that I've seen JM in concert 3 times, she announced, "I'm not worthy!" which is typical teen stuff but I got her point. Then, of course, we have the teens on this list. Obviously they're ahead of their peers, but they give me hope. I think of myself at age 11, fretting over the Vietnam war and the riots everywhere and shootings at Kent State, and air and water pollution, etc., and I know there were other kids like me and that there still are. Yes, I know that *most* teens are a lot like their parents: middle Americans who mainly go with the status quo and really don't give much of a rat's ass about anything that doesn't DIRECTLY affect them -- and who will swallow whatever crap the media feeds them and go ahead and vote for the incumbent president if they bother to vote at all. But I can't and I won't lump *all* teens into that group who thinks of cds as disposable and who won't give a real listen to some political Joni tunes. To do that is to just give up entirely, imo. I'm not recycling and trying to preserve the earth and vote for the "right" people, yadda yadda and so on, for the children who don't give a damn; I'm doing it for the ones who care. Likewise, I will pass on Joni's music and messages (and the music and messages of other singer/songwriters too) to those same kids. And ... I don't happen to think the songs that will be included on "Beginning of Survival" are sucky turds. I just don't. Hejira has always been my favorite JM album, but I dig the hell out of DED for the lyrics AND for the music. The lyrics are thought-provoking and the music is ... FUN!! I like the selections from the other albums too. So I'll buy a few copies of the new release and make gifts of them. If the music and lyrics fall upon deaf ears, so be it, but I'm not going to stop trying. Lori NPIMH: "We can change the world / Rearrange the world ... " ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 19:04:58 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: RE: Beginning of Survival JONI RELEASE JULY 27 - again, I say > Sorry, Lori, but I have a really strong reaction to this statement. Fair enough, Azeem, and I'm sorry if I offended you. I just believe that we (or maybe just I) should take every opportunity to get people to listen to the absolutely sensible things that Joni has written about the ills of this world, and not just what she's written about love and personal loss. I'm not going to get pissy because she has chosen to do *this* with part of her Geffen catalog. As I mentioned previously, and as others have written too, I do wish the new release included songs from her non-Geffen material. Nonetheless -- and I realize I'm in quite the minority here -- I'm just a little excited about the new release. I may even buy it for myself! We're all entitled to our opinions, and again, sorry if I offended or annoyed you. Lori, who joined the JMDL in 1997 just to get news about concert appearances and album releases, and really had no plans to discuss much of anything ... : ) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 19:07:17 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: [NortheastJonifest] Jonifest 2004 Chuck (the first JMDLer who ever wrote to me back in '97) wrote: > Why would Joni NOT come this year? Did she have other plans, > all of a sudden??? > > Full Moon has such a great lawn for copter landings, doesn't it? It does, and so does Max Yasgur's farm, which isn't THAT far away from the Full Moon. I'll even ride my Yamaha over to Bethel to pick Joni up! Think she'll hop on the back? ; ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 19:17:09 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Correction and apology I wrote: > Yes, I know that *most* teens are a lot like their parents: middle > Americans ... I want to offer an apology for not including teens and parent of other countries and cultures. I have a bad habit of doing that when I get on a roll, and I didn't mean to make it seem as if everything is about the U.S. It's not. Peace, Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 19:27:26 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: I'm curious about something If Joni continues to release collections similar to the upcoming one, will people begin to leave the Joni Mitchell Discussion List in disgust? I was thinking to myself today about all the amazing things that have come from this list in the last nearly 8 years. With the exception of Buck and Em, I know all of you because I met you on (or due to) this list. We've had countless gatherings, large and small, over the years. People from the JMDL have met and fallen in love and traveled over great distances to be together, and even married. All this because of our admiration of one woman and our love for her art. And now we bitch about what she's doing, or not doing, these days. Hmm. Just wondering what will become of *this* in the future ... Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 19:33:32 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: The Beginning of Survival - LOL It just occurred to me that the abbreviation for "The Beginning of Survival" on this list is likely to be: BS : D Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 22:38:16 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: I'm curious about something **If Joni continues to release collections similar to the upcoming one, will people begin to leave the Joni Mitchell Discussion List in disgust? This statement sure came out of left field - who's said anything about leaving? The depth of Joni's work has proven to be an almost unending source for discussion, like talking about Shakespeare or the Bible. There are books of the Bible and some of Shakespeare's plays that also suck, but it doesn't mean that there's not plenty of meat to chew on. By the same token, debating the merits of her work should certainly be an OK topic. From what I can tell, the biggest mass departures from the JMDL comes when the talk is all politics, which causes tempers to flare and folks to storm off. I'm certainly not upset with you, Lori, and I'm glad that this upcoming release is something you're excited about. Bob NP: RLJ, "Something Cool" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 22:48:00 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Turbulent Indigo **Wow that verse you quoted did kick ass a bit. Well, let's not give Joni too much credit for the text - most of "The Sire of Sorrow" is lifted directly from the Book of Job in The Old Testament. It is a helluva song though. I will say that TI is a great record Em - as much as you like STAS I think you'd do a double back flip when you heard TI. Sunny Sunday Sex Kills How Do You Stop Turbulent Indigo Last Chance Lost The Magdelene Laundries Not To Blame Borderline Yvette In English The Sire Of Sorrow (Job's Sad Song) I'd say that ALL of these are great songs (How Do You Stop is the weakest of the lot and it's a cover, she didn't pen it). Not a t*rd in the bunch! And fwiw, it did win the Grammy for Best Pop Album that year. Bob NP: George Sawyn, "2 by Joni" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 22:10:21 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: On this sad day, a prayer AMEN! > O G-d, full of compassion, Thou who dwellest on high. > Grant perfect rest beneath the sheltering wings of Thy > presence, among the holy and pure who shine as the > brightness of the firmament unto the soul of Mary > Grace who has gone unto eternity. Lord of mercy, > bring her under the cover of thy wings, and let her > soul be bound up in the bond of eternal life. Be Thou > her possession, and may her repose be peace. Amen. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 04:10:22 +0100 From: "Martin Giles" Subject: Drums and Jonifest 2004 Hi folks Can I just add my voice to those who have been encouraging people to come to this year's Jonifest? It really is a fantasic way to spend a long weekend. Honestly - if you get along to the Full Moon, I guarantee you won't regret it. Last year, after many years of putting it off, I finally attended my first Northeast Jonifest. I had a wonderful time, meeting so many of the people I had only known by their emails to the jmdl. There was delicious food to eat, lots of drink to be drunk (!), great company and a veritable orgy of live music. The latter, I was thrilled to contribute to with my band Stryngs, as well as being asked to play with several other people on their sets. Stryngs was at that time a three-piece band (myself, Chris Marshall and Strings), but since then we have been joined by the jmdl's very own and very talented Les Ross, and also an equally talented drummer (despite not being on the list ;0) - Derek Scurll. Derek is a lovely guy and a fantastic player, and I'm really happy to say that he has decided to come to this year's Jonifest. (OK, we threatened him with sticking his head through his snare drum and kicking him out of the band if he didn't come, but he seems to have taken it very well!) He will be playing on Stryngs' set, and I'm sure if you ask him nicely he'd be very happy to accompany anyone else who fancies some drums on their set. There is one small problem in that we'll have to hire a drum kit over there, but Ashara assures me that this can be done, and for a very reasonable price. A thought I had is that anyone who would like to have Derek play with them could perhaps contribute a handful of $ to the cost of hiring the kit. Does that sound reasonable? Anyway, come on folks. Feel that urge for going - get yourself booked into the Full Moon! atb, Martin. In London. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 23:25:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: I'm curious about something - --- Lori Fye wrote: > If Joni continues to release collections similar to > the upcoming one, will > people begin to leave the Joni Mitchell Discussion > List in disgust? ... > And now we bitch about what she's doing, or not > doing, these days. > > Hmm. Bitching can be fun, though ;-) However I agree with Muller - there's still a lot to talk about, because Joni's songs have so much in them (even the ones she keeps re-re-re-releasing.) ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 23:33:04 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Joni Mitchell VS Angry Mexican DJ's Weird subject, you say? Well...yes. This record (a 12" single) just came out and I just got my copy today. I don't know much about it, I'm sure Joni had nothing to do with it. It's a house/dance remix of "Woodstock" (LOTC version) with Joni's vocal only over a house beat. I'll convert it to an .wma file and if you want to hear it, let me know, I'll send it to you. It's actually pretty cool. But it's going to be a big file as it's 6:21 or so in length, so just be forewarned about that. Who says you can't dance to Joni? Bob NP: Dixie Crosby, "Blue Motel Room" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 20:42:12 -0700 From: "Russell Bowden" Subject: A tiny voice in the wilderness? JC Re: Reoccuring Gang, I may not be operating with all gears most of the time but, (deep breath) I've always liked 'Reoccuring Dream'.... I think Joni said somewhere that is was a vocal ensemble piece, or something to that effect. The engineering and recording of that number blows me away. Coming right before 'Bird that Whistles' (one of my favorite Joni recordings) displays a wonderful duality awareness.....did I just say that? I do agree, however, that enough is enough with re-releasing the same stuff in a different package. Give it up! Norma Desmond also said, "I am big, it's the pictures that got small". Don'cha love it? Aloha, Russellulu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get fast, reliable Internet access with MSN 9 Dial-up  now 3 months FREE! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 02:04:12 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: June 17 On June 17 the following articles were published: 1969: "Central Park Music Fete To Start 4th Year June 26" - New York Times (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=802 1998: "At Chieftains' invite, women turn to 'Stone'" - San Diego Union-Tribune (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=325 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 02:07:37 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Survival CD Maybe this has already been discussed but the last two "reissues" have been exclusively the Geffen era. This upcoming one will be issued on Geffen but will include G. and Reprise recordings. Seems to me though that if they're doing some Reprise stuff, they could go way back and include "The Fiddle and The Drum." Like most of you, I just don't get it. If they can find a way to actually market this CD then it would, more or less, make sense to release it, but I can't see how they're going to find an audience for this. Radio won't touch it and the critics have already dismissed the grumpy Joni songs repeatedly. I just don't get it. Joni may think it's important for people to hear these songs but history has shown they're not going to. I guess I'm preaching to the choir. Does anyone on this list actually know Joni, to talk some sense into the gal? I can't stand seeing my idol shoot herself in the foot like this. Bryan PS. Listening to Summer Lawns demo CD and I love, love the Dreamland demo. Great arrangement. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 02:12:02 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: More Survival stuff This makes me think that the new release has to have something to do with contract obligations. Maybe. But I don't think so. Didn't Joni terminate/nullify her contract with Geffen when she sued to get out of it (I think that's what happened). And certainly the recent 4-CD set on Geffen/Universal must have finished up any remaining obligation, if there is any. Still dumbfounded.... Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 02:15:09 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Even more Survival stuff This leads me to believe that Geffen is >initiating these releases (obviously) to recycle material they own that >underproduced for them the first time. Well, since Geffen (or Reprise in some cases) holds the production rights to the recordings, they can release this stuff as many times as they want. Maybe Joni is just cooperating, hoping for exposure to a new audience. I wish they would all just move on. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 02:19:09 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: TI & Sire of Sorrow >So what's up with this "Turbulent Indigo"? - I've heard it referred to >as genius, or some such glowing thing. Is it among her best? "Sire of Sorrow (Job's Sad Song)" from TI is one Joni's best, a stunning song, epic-esque (made up that word) in nature. A real accomplishment. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 02:27:24 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Hope, disgust, embarrassment, the future, etc. If Joni continues to release collections similar to the upcoming one, will people begin to leave the Joni Mitchell Discussion List in disgust? Yes, probably. A number of the hard-core fans are already turned off by the orchestral albums, reissues and now more reissues. I'm not exactly disgusted, but my "relationship with Joni" (so to speak) is definitely being tested. Bryan ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #169 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)