From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #145 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, May 24 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 145 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Electricity ["Kate Cox" ] Re: like a ruby in a black man's ear [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Joni & Wilson Phillips [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] good dog ["Janine Sherman" ] Re: good dog [Catherine McKay ] Re: Electricity [Catherine McKay ] Re: Electricity [hell@ihug.co.nz] Re: Electricity (I forgot something!) [hell@ihug.co.nz] temporary absence ["Richard Flynn" ] RE: Electricity (I forgot something!) ["Les Irvin" ] Re: Electricity (I forgot something!) [Michael Paz ] Re: Electricity (I forgot something!) [Michael Paz Subject: Electricity The mention of 'I'm learning it's peaceful with a good dog & some trees' reminded me of something I've been wanting to ask for a while. Does anyone else hear 'Electricity' as being about a triadic relationship, of some kind? It's just that I have always heard it that way and had never questioned it, until I was reading some archives on the jmdl site and saw some totally different interpretations. Which, of course, is what it's all about! I don't at all think there is a definitive interpretation of every song, but I would be interested to know if anyone else heard it that way. /////It could be a simple mistake based on the three perspectives from which Joni may be singing: he, she, and I. It could also be due to my tendency to interpret songs in the light of my own experiences and those of people close to me. But the perspective shifting(if that's what it is) in this song is interesting. If it IS only about 2 people, then is it the male or female perspective Joni takes on when she sings in the first person? For example, when she sings 'I'm learning it's peaceful with a good dog & some trees', has she taken on the perspective of the male or the female, the Minus or the Plus? If the picture in the songbook shows a man with a dog, this would suggest she is taking on the male perspective. In fact, a male perspective on a two-way relationship could explain every incidence when she takes on the first-person, such as "The loose wires were lashing out at me, she's not going to fix that up too easy". BUT it can't explain the last line of the song, at the end of a verse in the first person, when she sings "But while the song that he sang her to soothe her to sleep runs all through her circuits like a heartbeat, she's not going to fix it up too easy". Unless there has been yet another perspective switch! /////Okay, in my interpretation, I'm not thinking one girl and two guys, I'm thinking one guy and two girls. I would argue that the song doesn't have any perspective shifting, but is in the perspective of one of the girls all the way through. The Minus is obviously the guy, with whom the central character is romantically involved. He's cold & estranged, but she needs him and her emotional state (compared to seasons) is a response to him: "The Minus is loveless, he talks to the land, & the leaves fall & the pond over-ices'. The Plus is not the central character, but the other girl. The Plus is someone she has been friends with for a fair while, but their friendship has fallen in to difficult times. In my head, it is their friendship being referred to in the lines, "We once loved together and we floodlit that time, input, output, electricity. But the lines overloaded and the sparks started flying and the loose wires were lashing out at me". /////The Plus is a difficult person to relate to ("She don't know the system, Plus, she don't understand, she's got all the wrong fuses & splices"). She's a bit intense and needy, and she tries to get too close to the central character: "She holds out her flashlight and she shines it on me, she wants me to tell her what the trouble might be". This leads the central character to withdraw: "I'm learning it's peaceful, etc". /////But things go even more wrong because now the Plus has become romantically involved with the Minus too. The friendship is in a terrible mess and now the Plus has feelings for the central character's man, who is ambivalent towards both of them. The Plus in an awful pickle, but she's still trying desperately to sort out her friendship with the central character, and mistakenly trying to get the Minus to help her: "She holds out her candle and she shines it in, and she begs him to show her how to fix it again". However, this is now completely impossible, because the Plus is now running on the tiny charge she has managed to elicit from the Minus: "While the song that he sang her to soothe her to sleep runs all through her circuits like a heartbeat, she's not going to fix it up too easy". /////Am I wildly, wildly mistaken? What does anyone think? Sorry this post is so long! I'm revising for my exams, and things that are usually interesting become even more interesting when they become an excuse to stop revising! /////Love Kate C - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 07:52:08 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: like a ruby in a black man's ear In a message dated 5/21/2004 10:15:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, JRMCo1@aol.com writes: Anyway, I've been looking high and low for a real ruby earring to sport in my own black lobe, so I'll be properly accessorized when I finally meet Joan. I wonder how many people will see me and "get it" when I finally find one. We shall see. I think you should come to Jonifest to test this question. :-D Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 08:10:20 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni & Wilson Phillips **two Jonis on the album - including the one we obviously expect on an album of California music** Hey Vince - thanks for the mention, this one comes out Tuesday. There's only one Joni cover on it though, the title track, which is cool because that song doesn't get much coverage. Bob NP: Ten Years After, "As The Sun Still Burns Away" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 10:09:29 -0400 From: "Janine Sherman" Subject: good dog Clear DayGood morning, Someone recently asked if Joni had a dog when she wrote that line . I can not locate it (as usual) but there was a long story someone posted awhile ago on here about Joni picking three people up who were hitchhiking up in Canada near where she lives in BC around the time of her writing FTR. They were stunned/thrilled to realize it was Joni who stopped for them. Seems to me she may have had a dog in the car (a Pinto). I think she dropped them off somewhere and then returned to pick them up and Graham Nash was in the car with her????? And maybe one of them made her a dulcimer?????? ( I may be confusing more than one story) Anyone else remember this story? Was there a dog or am I imaging that ?? All the best, Janine Unusually hot and humid here in PA this weekend. NP: the sound of cicadas LOUD ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 10:36:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: good dog --- Janine Sherman wrote: > Clear DayGood morning, > > Someone recently asked if Joni had a dog when she > wrote that line . > > I can not locate it (as usual) but there was a long > story someone posted > awhile ago on here about Joni picking three people > up who were hitchhiking up > in Canada near where she lives in BC around the time > of her writing FTR. They > were stunned/thrilled to realize it was Joni who > stopped for them. Seems to me > she may have had a dog in the car (a Pinto). I think > she dropped them off > somewhere and then returned to pick them up and > Graham Nash was in the car > with her????? And maybe one of them made her a > dulcimer?????? ( I may be > confusing more than one story) > > Anyone else remember this story? Was there a dog or > am I imaging that ?? Janine, I remember the story. I'm sure it was someone who posted it to the list at least a couple of years ago. I have no idea how to search the archives though, apart from going through each digest one by one and trying to search a key word or two - I think there's another way to do this, because I've seen instances of people posting links, or excerpts, but I have no idea how they do this. I'm not sure about the dog, but I remember the hitchers and the dulcimer. It was either someone who is (or was) a regular poster here who experienced this, or who was quoting someone else he knew. Big help, eh? Joni has a Jack Russell terrier and a bunch of cats now, but back then? No idea. I picture a Golden Retriever or a Lab. P.S. Is it always a clear day where you live? It's pretty gloomy here. ;-) ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 12:16:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Electricity --- Kate Cox wrote: > The mention of 'I'm learning it's peaceful with a > good dog & some trees' > reminded me of something I've been wanting to ask > for a while. Does > anyone else hear 'Electricity' as being about a > triadic relationship, of > some kind? It's just that I have always heard it > that way and had never > questioned it, until I was reading some archives on > the jmdl site and saw > some totally different interpretations. Which, of > course, is what it's > all about! I don't at all think there is a > definitive interpretation of > every song, but I would be interested to know if > anyone else heard it > that way. /////It could be a simple mistake based > on the three > perspectives from which Joni may be singing: he, > she, and I. It could > also be due to my tendency to interpret songs in the > light of my own > experiences and those of people close to me. But the > perspective > shifting(if that's what it is) in this song is > interesting. That's one of the amazing things about Joni's writing. It could be any or all of what you think, and even more besides. I waver between changing-perspective, and third person involved. In fact, both at the same time. I think Joni has just split with her beau and she's gone on retreat up to her BC hideaway, where she's trying to get back in touch with nature and herself and to lick her wounds. Meantime, the beau is together with another woman. Joni may be telling the new woman a few things about the guy, to help her out (or possibly sabotage things, but probably not, since I believe Joni knows it's truly over between her and the ex- and is trying to do the right and mature thing by letting him go from her heart and mind. She mulls over the affair, comparing it with the new one he's beginning with this other woman, and writing it all down in terms of electricity - - the fire and spark they once had, the fuses blown, the attempts to fix it with whatever comes to hand - attempts that ultimately proved fruitless; the darkness left by power failure, yet another attempt to fix it with a candle, also doomed to fail. There may be a very real practical side to this as well. If she was living in a rural area and the power lines went down, or something failed in the fuse box, it's quite possible she would need to try to fix this herself. She has run out of fuses and so uses the penny (the copper proud-headed Queen Lizzie) to try to fix it, but it doesn't work. It goes beyond one blown fuse. I believe she does switch perspectives back and forth, between herself and the man, herself and the other woman. First "she" holds out a flashlight and shines it on "me." It could be the other woman, wanting Joni to help her with a problem she's now having with the guy. Or, it could be a friend of Joni's, trying to help Joni out. Or maybe the "me" in this case, is the guy: Joni, as she's trying to fix the blown fuse, remembers asking the man, before it was all over, what the trouble is, but he's not willing to talk. "They're" not going to fix it up. Later, even the flashlight has failed and now "she" holds out a candle and begs HIM to fix it. Just fix it. Talking it over hasn't worked, so just fix it. Now, "she's" not going to fix it up. First, the relationship falters, then fails. Now, Joni's on her own, but she's just beginning to heal. Right now, she's just learning, but she's got a long way to go and she realizes she needs to fix things up for herself. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:10:31 +1200 From: hell@ihug.co.nz Subject: Re: Electricity Catherine wrote: > I believe she does switch perspectives back and > forth, between herself and the man, herself and > the other woman. First "she" holds out a > flashlight and shines it on "me." It could be the > other woman, wanting Joni to help her with a > problem she's now having with the guy. Or, it > could be a friend of Joni's, trying to > help Joni out. Or maybe the "me" in this case, is > the guy: Joni, as she's trying to fix the blown > fuse, remembers asking the man, before it was all > over, what the trouble is, but he's not willing to > talk. "They're" not going to fix it up. > > Later, even the flashlight has failed and now "she" > holds out a candle and begs HIM to fix it. Just fix > it. Talking it over hasn't worked, so just fix it. > Now, "she's" not going to fix it up. I've always seen the flashlight and candle as metaphors for something different. In the case of the flashlight, the "new" woman knows that Joni knows this guy really well, so it's like Joni is "under the spotlight" (which is very bright and clear), being interrogated by his new love. She wants Joni to tell her everything she can about this guy to ease her confusion. Later, this same woman tries to examine the guy herself, but she doesn't know as much as Joni yet, so her light is only a candle - weak and flickering, so she can't see nearly as much as Joni could with her "flashlight". I really need to sit down and examine this song in more detail, because it's definitely one of my favourites! Hell ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:13:08 +1200 From: hell@ihug.co.nz Subject: Re: Electricity (I forgot something!) I forgot to add this: Also, the line "we once loved together, and we floodlit that time" also uses the light as a metaphor, in other words, saying that Joni and this guy knew each other incredibly well - maybe too well, and things got out of control. Hell ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 18:37:55 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: temporary absence Hello Joniphiles, I'll be signing off the list on Tuesday because I'm spending 3 weeks in California (San Francisco, Santa Barbara, L.A., and Fresno) Part business, part vacation. I won't be able to handle the volume of mail from afar. But I'll sign back on when I get back to the Peach State in mid-June! Cheers, Richard Richard Flynn Professor Dept. of Literature and Philosophy Georgia Southern University Statesboro, GA 30460-8023 Home page: http://www.GeorgiaSouthern.edu/~rflynn "We go to college to be given one more chance to learn to read in case we haven't learned in High School. Once we have learned to read, the rest can be trusted to add itself unto us." --Robert Frost, "Poetry and School" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 19:21:01 -0600 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: RE: Electricity (I forgot something!) Hell wrote: > Also, the line "we once loved together, and we floodlit that > time" also uses the light as a metaphor Joni mondegreen #4855... I always thought his was "and we floodlit bad times". Les, never one to listen too closely... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 22:23:16 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Electricity (I forgot something!) All I CAN SAY IS-IT'S ALWAYS WORKED FOR ME! Hey are you coming to JF2004? Haven't seen you in a fecking long time and it sure would be nice. I don't know if I can sit thru anymore songs written about you if you are not there to defend yourself. Love Paz > I forgot to add this: > > Also, the line "we once loved together, and we floodlit that > time" also uses the light as a metaphor, in other words, > saying that Joni and this guy knew each other incredibly > well - maybe too well, and things got out of control. > > Hell ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 22:24:43 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: temporary absence You should call Julius while you are there. AND if your plane happens to go thru New Jersey, PLEASE pick up a Taylor ham and drop it off to MG for us. Have a safe trip and more fun than work. Best Paz > Hello Joniphiles, > I'll be signing off the list on Tuesday because I'm spending 3 weeks in > California (San Francisco, Santa Barbara, L.A., and Fresno) Part business, > part vacation. I won't be able to handle the volume of mail from afar. But > I'll sign back on when I get back to the Peach State in mid-June! > > Cheers, > Richard > > > Richard Flynn > Professor > Dept. of Literature and Philosophy > Georgia Southern University > Statesboro, GA 30460-8023 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 22:26:07 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Electricity (I forgot something!) Me too1 OHG I AM sorry and that was your rule too was it not. But ME TOO! LOL Paz Feeling goofy. I was suppose to go see Todd Rundgren tonight and I wanted to, but too many other things going on with the kids and my dad and and and... > Hell wrote: >> Also, the line "we once loved together, and we floodlit that >> time" also uses the light as a metaphor > > Joni mondegreen #4855... I always thought his was "and we floodlit bad > times". > > Les, never one to listen too closely... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 23:52:12 EDT From: HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com Subject: my dear friends (sjc) my dear friends, are we not blessed to live in the time when joni created...? the drink of life is short, it's flavor is sweet and full. savor every droplet. so very much of that flavor comes from one woman. God bless you all ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 02:10:56 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: May 24 On May 24 the following articles were published: 1991: "Dump that national chip, singer says" - Saskatoon StarPhoenix (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=890 1998: "It's All He Really Wanted to Do" - Los Angeles Times (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=147 2000: "Cover Concert Doesn't Do Joni Justice" - New York Post (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=523 2000: "Joni Mitchell Plays Something Old, Something New, But Nothing From Blue" - SonicNet website (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=524 2000: "Joni Mitchell Transcends the Musical Packages" - New York Times (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=521 2000: "Joni's Gold Standards" - New York Daily News (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=522 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #145 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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