From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #142 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, May 21 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 142 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #232 ["don whiteman" ] Logo Voting Reminder [AsharaProducLLC@aol.com] Re: Joni Covers vol 11-20 [Emiliano ] Re: "I dream of Joni"; no, not a TV sitcom [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #232 [kate@katebennett.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #232 [kate@katebennett.com] Butterflies and lilac sprays ["Kate Cox" ] Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays [Em ] Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays ["Kate Cox" ] Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays ["Norman Pennington" ] RE: Butterflies and lilac sprays ["Cynthia Vickery" ] Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Butterflies and lilac sprays ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Larry Klein (and Joni) mention... [hell@ihug.co.nz] do the HOSL! [Em ] Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays [=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= ] Re: butterflies and lilac sprays [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays [Catherine McKay ] Re: butterflies and lilac sprays [Smurfycopy@aol.com] The Way the Music Died -vljc ["mia ortlieb" ] re: Butterflies and Lilac Sprays ["mia ortlieb" ] BSN, International Smash [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Today's Library Links: May 21 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Joni at the movies fantasy ["Kate Bennett" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 19:48:42 +1000 From: "don whiteman" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #232 Hi All, About 2 weeks ago Iwas in Los Angeles for a working conference (my annual pilgrimmage) Before I left to go away I was told by Micahel Paz to look up Kakki. Thanks for the tip Paz. Whilst our schedules didn't allow for us to meet up this time, We did get to talk on the phone. It was the night before I left to come back to Australia and we talked for hours. Some of the things that we spoke of were very commonsense much of it c0oncerned Ms. Mitchell of course. I left thinking this Why don't we have a webcam talkfest on this group? I had some friends who were transferred overseas for two years and every friday evening at 8pm there would be a group link up in netmeeting and our kids got to talk and see their friends on the other side of the world. When they came back home it was as if they hadn't been away at all. All that was needed was a webcam. As an Australian I don't get top participate in JoniFest (it always happens when I'm not in the USA) A few years ago I suggested on Lee-Shore List that the Aussie members get together at a central location in Australia. It was decided that Centennial Park in Sydney would be an ideal place on a beautiful Saturday afternoon. Well it did work and there were about 6 or 7 members, most of them musos and we got together and made some very beautiful music and shared stories and looked at photographs and the such. Kakki remembered this from the Lee-Shore list and said we should try the same thing for JMDL Aussies (kiwis too if you are here). So this is a call for all Australian (and kiwis) on this list to show if you are interested in getting together and create our own downunder JoniFest. It can work people, what have we got to loose by trying. Then we can send stuff back through the list for others to see what we can do. Hey Kakki, I said I would try to get it happening. looking forward to lots of replies Don Whiteman Sydney Australia ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 06:39:20 EDT From: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com Subject: Logo Voting Reminder Time to vote for the Jonifest 2004 LOGO!!!!!!!!!! Go to: http://jonifest.com/vote.cfm All votes must be in by May 31st. Please, only one vote per person. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:59:18 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: Joni Covers vol 11-20 Hi, Laurent! It came yesterday, today's gone! The discs are already in its way to our mutual friend Laurent, in Paris. I haven't actually listened properly to them, yet. A couple of albums while correcting pupils' papers about The Human Rights' Universal Stement (Only if...) Many many thanks again to Bob, Eric & Doug Laurent: I'll send later to you the document with the correct order for the songs, right? Well, Have a Wonderful time! Emiliano NP: Courage of Lassie !??!- Urge for Going - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Laurent Olszer" Para: "Emiliano" CC: Enviado: jueves, 20 de mayo de 2004 3:05 Asunto: Joni Covers vol 11-20 > Hi Emiliano > > If not too late may I please get the next bunch? > > Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:35:11 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: "I dream of Joni"; no, not a TV sitcom Hi to all; thought you'd all get a kick out of the dream I had last night (sorry I can't remember morebor all the detailsbbut you know how that is). It was probably fueled by recent posts by Donna on the upcoming fest and my going into the fest archives last night and reading past posts from all who attended last year's event (including myself). First of all, it was held at a big old house on the north shore of Long Island, overlooking the water (Long Island Sound); this is probably from deep within my subconcious (Todd Rundgren & the Nazz rented a house on the north shore of LI in the '60's but I don't know if it was on the water; I have a bootleg cassette tape of some songs they recorded there). Because I arrived early to the fest, I was able to select the spot where the diving platform would be moored; I chose a spot just beyond where the waves would break (yes, I know, there are no waves on the LI Sound but this is a dream, remember? Michael Paz was also there early and we sat and talked for a long time before others arrived. We were also sharing sleeping quarters wherever we could find a spot so I picked out a cot in the large main room of the house with a view of the water. Shortly after we went to "bed", it started to rain and there was a leak right over my cot... I had to move to my right to avoid it. The best part is that JONI WAS THERE but I think it was before anyone else showed up because I remember talking to her at great length about music and our personal lives but no one else was around (no witnesses so I have no proof?) I think I remember someone posting a recent message on the JMDL site about wishing he could talk to Joni so that was probably the spark for that part. When I woke up this morning it was still fresh in my mind and almost seemed real for a few moments... wishful thinking, eh? I decided to jot these things down before I forgot the few things I DID remember. I'm still not sure if I'll make it to this year's fest as I've started a new job and will have to see if I can take the time off (can't go up Sat and come home Sunday/need at least half day off Friday and Monday... I'll check with my manager in the next week or so. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:26:24 -0700 (PDT) From: kate@katebennett.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #232 >I don't care about Nader -- I'd much rather support Camejo if he would run for the Greens, or perhaps Kucinich if he would break with the Democratic Party --< i have been in the room when kucinich was asked why he isn't running green... he is adamant about staying with the democratic party...bascially because at this point in time its the only realistic way to make a vote count... he is working from within to try & change the democratic party which is why he is still in the race... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:29:16 -0700 (PDT) From: kate@katebennett.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #232 sorry joni onlys for my last njc post! i know better but am using a different computer & forgot to change the subject! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:35:55 +0000 From: "Kate Cox" Subject: Butterflies and lilac sprays I was just wondering if anyone could throw any light on this mystifying lyric! "I get these notes on butterflies and lilac sprays, from girls who just have to tell me they saw you somewhere". A butterfly wouldn't be a very convenient thing to write a note on, and I don't even know what a lilac spray is! I've contented myself for a while with the idea that the girls are writing ABOUT butterflies & lilac sprays, and that perhaps James Taylor had given them such objects, but I'm sure someone has a better idea... Come to think of it, there are quite a few lyrics that mystify me in that song. "On your mark red ribbon runner, the caressing rub of motors finely tuned like fancy women in thirties evening gowns". I get the 'on your marks red ribbon runner' bit: she's saying, okay, the race starts here for the sprint of stardom, make sure you're ready. But I'm clueless about the 2nd bit. Does anyone have any thoughts? I adore that song and it irritates me to think I don't completely understand it! Love Kate C - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:48:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays "notes on" would mean notes about or pertaining to "butterflies and lilac sprays". I take it that a "spray" of lilacs would be some branches and the flowers. A "spray" of flowers? Not like some room deoderizer I hope. But who knows? Don't let it irritate you, Kate. Its not possible to really know. Just go with whatever "visuals" you get. If you tried, for instance, to "know" what every line out of mid 60's Dylan meant..you'd go nuts. Or every line out of a Burroughs novel. It just can't be! Maybe you could close your eyes and let the imagery run over your eyelids like the shadows of fast moving clouds on an otherwise sunny day. :) Best, Em - --- Kate Cox wrote: > I was just wondering if anyone could throw any light on this > mystifying > lyric! "I get these notes on butterflies and lilac sprays, from girls > who > just have to tell me they saw you somewhere". A butterfly wouldn't be > a > very convenient thing to write a note on, and I don't even know what > a > lilac spray is! I've contented myself for a while with the idea that > the > girls are writing ABOUT butterflies & lilac sprays, and that perhaps > James Taylor had given them such objects, but I'm sure someone has a > better idea... Come to think of it, there are quite a few lyrics that > mystify me in that song. "On your mark red ribbon runner, the > caressing > rub of motors finely tuned like fancy women in thirties evening > gowns". I > get the 'on your marks red ribbon runner' bit: she's saying, okay, > the > race starts here for the sprint of stardom, make sure you're ready. > But > I'm clueless about the 2nd bit. Does anyone have any thoughts? I > adore > that song and it irritates me to think I don't completely understand > it! > Love Kate C > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:56:54 +0000 From: "Kate Cox" Subject: Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays I wrote: > > I was just wondering if anyone could throw any light on this > > mystifying > > lyric! "I get these notes on butterflies and lilac sprays, from girls > > who > > just have to tell me they saw you somewhere". Em wrote:"notes on" would mean notes about or pertaining to "butterflies and >lilac sprays". I take it that a "spray" of lilacs would be some >branches and the flowers. A "spray" of flowers? >Not like some room deoderizer I hope... >Maybe you could close your eyes and let the imagery run over your >eyelids like the shadows of fast moving clouds on an otherwise sunny >day. What a lovely idea! I think I will! It could well have been room deoderizer you know... she liked embarassing James Taylor on that album. "Pack your suspenders, I'll come meet your plane"... Do you like For The Roses, Em? Have you received those ones you ordered yet? Hope you like them if so. Love Kate - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Have more fun with your phone - download ringtones, logos, screensavers, games & more. Click here to begin! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:56:56 -0600 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays Kate Cox gave us: > I was just wondering if anyone could throw any light on this mystifying > lyric! "I get these notes on butterflies and lilac sprays, from girls who > just have to tell me they saw you somewhere". A butterfly wouldn't be a > very convenient thing to write a note on, and I don't even know what a > lilac spray is! I've contented myself for a while with the idea that the > girls are writing ABOUT butterflies & lilac sprays, and that perhaps > James Taylor had given them such objects, but I'm sure someone has a > better idea... Come to think of it, there are quite a few lyrics that > mystify me in that song. "On your mark red ribbon runner, the caressing > rub of motors finely tuned like fancy women in thirties evening gowns". I > get the 'on your marks red ribbon runner' bit: she's saying, okay, the > race starts here for the sprint of stardom, make sure you're ready. But > I'm clueless about the 2nd bit. Does anyone have any thoughts? I adore > that song and it irritates me to think I don't completely understand it! I intrepret the "butterflies and lilac sprays" line as a reference to stationary. It seemed like all the women I dated/corresponded with had "expressive" stationary. You can even have "personalized" stationary in e-mail, now. Now the second bit: "finely tuned like women..." always seemed to me to be an expression about an obsessive attention to detail...i.e., no stone left unturned to achieve maximum performance...whether it's personal or professional. God, but she is SO good! Best Regards, bp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:02:12 -0500 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays <<"I get these notes on butterflies and lilac sprays, from girls who just have to tell me they saw you somewhere". A butterfly wouldn't be a very convenient thing to write a note on, and I don't even know what a lilac spray is! I've contented myself for a while with the idea that the girls are writing ABOUT butterflies & lilac sprays, and that perhaps James Taylor had given them such objects, but I'm sure someone has a better idea... >> okay, what about this: stationary with butterflies and lilac sprays (a buch of lilacs) printed on it. or that's what i've always imagined.... these notes to joni that say something like "i'm only telling you this becase i'm your friend (which really means: 'i'm only telling you this because i'm jealous of you and your success and i want to even out the playing field a bit'), but your lover ('who i'd love to say was *mine*') isn't being faithful to you ('and isn't cheating with *me,* dammit'). bless your heart for having this heartache to deal with ('mmwaahahaha')" and it's poison to the relationship written on sweet flowery stationary.... another joni contrast. just a thought. what do *y'all* think? cindy, replying to a JC post! will wonders never cease!?! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:57:17 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Butterflies and lilac sprays hear hear! the whole stanza is hard for me to understand. what does joni mean by "circulate his soul around"? i never got the parts kate mentions. wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Kate > Cox > Enviado el: Jueves, 20 de Mayo de 2004 01:36 p.m. > Para: joni@smoe.org > Asunto: Butterflies and lilac sprays > > > I was just wondering if anyone could throw any light on this mystifying > lyric! "I get these notes on butterflies and lilac sprays, from girls who > just have to tell me they saw you somewhere". ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:28:29 +0000 From: "Kate Cox" Subject: Re: butterflies and lilac sprays Cindy wrote:"stationary with butterflies and lilac sprays (a buch of lilacs)printed on it.or that's what i've always imagined....and it's poison to the relationship written on sweet flowery stationary....another joni contrast." Buck wrote:"I intrepret the "butterflies and lilac sprays" line as a reference to stationary. It seemed like all the women I dated/corresponded with had "expressive" stationary. You can even have "personalized" stationary in e-mail, now. Now the second bit: "finely tuned like women..." always seemed to me to be an expression about an obsessive attention to detail...i.e., no stone left unturned to achieve maximum performance...whether it's personal or professional. God, but she is SO good!" Now how could I have missed the obvious like that, stationary-wise?! Maybe I'm always ready for Joni to be more complicated than she really is. Buck, I think you must be absolutely right about the second bit, but I still don't understand why 'the caressing rub of motors' follows the 'red ribbon runner'...Oh maybe the seductive quality of fame, how he will now get to ride everywhere in a limo that massages his ego, like the perfect 'finely-tuned' woman. You are right! She is SO SO good! Wally wrote:the whole stanza is hard for me to understand. what does joni mean by "circulate his soul around"? i never got the parts kate mentions. Glad to know I'm not the only one... but I do have some thoughts on 'circulate his soul around'. This young guy (could be JT or a comparison) is a talented, sensitive young man trapped in a soulless job. "In some office sits a poet and he trembles as he sings". He doesn't fit in, he is too intelligent, deep and emotional. This special person is contrasted to the "some guy" who he asks to circulate his soul around. "Some guy" is no-one special (would Joni be that harsh though?). His request to "some guy" completely sums up his situation, he is trying to spread love and understanding in a situation where people have been ground into the floor by meaningless work and pointless goals. Yet he will probably be ridiculed for this inappropriate request. This fits in with the later line, when Joni tries to remind JT of who and what he used to be, tries to get him to connect it with who he is now. "Remember the days when you used to sit and make up your tunes for love and pour your simple sorrow to the soundhole on your knee". On the other hand "asks some guy to circulate his soul around" could be a desperate attempt to become famous. Oh, I've just seen this from a completely different point of view! JT is in the office of a RECORD COMPANY, trying to get a deal, sitting in front of the manager, nervous and brimming with soul, begging for the chance to get famous. Actually that seems a lot more likely. Thanks for getting me to think about that one, it's wierd how you have a picture in your head for every line, and after a while you don't question it. Love Kate - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:07:08 -0500 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: RE: Butterflies and lilac sprays <> can i try this one, too, since i'm on a JC roll? the whole stanza: "In some office sits a poet And he trembles as he sings And he asks some guy To circulate his soul around" by putting his music out into the world (instead of playing for the sound hole and his knee, as before), he's putting his deepest feelings/thoughts/emotions on display for his audiences (and for the record company execs). and if that music is recorded and sold, he's literally selling his soul, right? cindy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:32:44 -0400 From: BRIANASYMES@aol.com Subject: Joni at the movies fantasy Shrek 2 is coming out, here is my fantasy Shrek is visiting the Ye Village Pub orders a beer from the Ugly Stepsister bartender. Then a Blond two headed Ogre steps out on stage and starts singing Twisted ! then after that she goes out to the audience and has a couple of smokes with different smitten men, she gets back on stage and starts singing with each head looking at a different guy Both Sides Now ! The back up band D lahm on the piano would be the "Fox" from Pinocchio M Paz on Bass would be Woody the Wood Pecker Lead Guitar Kate Bennett would be "Ariel" (Disney Mermaid) The Announcer SC Joni Guy "Schroeder" the Pianist from Peanuts I hope no one was offended by this fantasy. Brian Clockin Talkin and Shockin ? I am a troubled child ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:04:13 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays Cindy writes: << just a thought. what do *y'all* think? >> You are absolutely correct, young lady. You get an "A" for the day. You have come a long way since your wild days of last summer, and I am proud of your improvement. - --Mr. Smurfman, who can practically see the '60s-style notes that teenage girls would buy with butterflies and lilacs . . . ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:17:26 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays Exhausted from reviving the many breasted and glorious Birthday Fairy for my birthday, *W* asks what's up with: << "circulate his soul around" >> Simple, Wally! His music -- his "art" -- is his soul and he's selling his soul by participating in the music biz glad-handing that goes along with the star maker machinery. - --Mrs. Claudio *W* Kairuz-Smurfy, who has slices of you from DNA samples ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:26:17 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: butterflies and lilac sprays Kate writes: << "Some guy" is no-one special (would Joni be that harsh though?). >> Ha! The answer is YES! Also, maybe you never thought of stationary for "butterflies and lilac sprays" because that style of writing paper was out of style before you ever arrived in this world, Kate! - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:44:26 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: butterflies and lilac sprays not to be confused with "THAT guy"!!! (hi jody!) thanks for the answers. i still think that FTR is CRUCIAL in our education as joniphiles. i'm glad we're back to joni-analysis. signed: Mrs. Robert Murphy-Kairuz -- oh god ! at last! a hyphenated last name! > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de > Smurfycopy@aol.com > Enviado el: Jueves, 20 de Mayo de 2004 05:26 p.m. > Para: sellout48@hotmail.com; joni@smoe.org > Asunto: Re: butterflies and lilac sprays > > > Kate writes: > > << "Some guy" is no-one special ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:01:51 -0400 From: cul Subject: Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays I always saw this song in reference to Chuck Mitchell "I get these notes on butterflies and lilac sprays, from girls who just have to tell me they saw you somewhere". Fans wanting to connect and play into Mitchell's intimacies thereby having the feeling of knowing her...send her notes at concerts on paper which has lilac sprays and/or butterflies printed in pastel along the borders of the page. Mitchell is making reference and distancing herself from that naiveti girlish innocence which would inspired to send such notes. "On your mark red ribbon runner,... "Red ribbon runner" is a description someone willing to come in second place, whose ambitions are less than those of a "blue ribbon runner" (blue ribbon =1st place in a competition, red ribbon = second place)... the caressing REV of motors finely tuned like fancy women in thirties evening gowns" here she's describing a sort of elegance that appeals to the red ribbon runner (a parallel effect is used by Mitchell in "Furry" when she talks about the "ghosts of the dark society coming right out of the bricks at me, like its Saturday night and their dressed in their finery"... she's evoking the elegance of a long gone era and comparing it Furry's modern disquiet to show how much has been lost, both in the culture and in Furry. Its one of her most beautiful poems that speaks to the hollowness of fame and the isolation that comes with being an performing artist. I was sitting out on our beach in Sechelt one fall night (not far from Joni's seaside house)under a large Arbutus tree and a full moon. I heard the leaves of tree being rustled by a chilly wind and the rising tide was causing the driftwood logs to bump into one another. It indeed sounded like applause and moon scintillating on the black water was just like a single spotlight on a stage. I shivered thinking of her line, "I heard it in the wind last night It sounded like applause Chilly now End of summer No more shiny hot nights It was just the arbutus rustling And the bumping of the logs And the moon swept down black water Like an empty spotlight Kate Cox wrote: I was just wondering if anyone could throw any light on this mystifying lyric! "I get these notes on butterflies and lilac sprays, from girls who just have to tell me they saw you somewhere". A butterfly wouldn't be a very convenient thing to write a note on, and I don't even know what a lilac spray is! I've contented myself for a while with the idea that the girls are writing ABOUT butterflies & lilac sprays, and that perhaps James Taylor had given them such objects, but I'm sure someone has a better idea... Come to think of it, there are quite a few lyrics that mystify me in that song. "On your mark red ribbon runner, the caressing rub of motors finely tuned like fancy women in thirties evening gowns". I get the 'on your marks red ribbon runner' bit: she's saying, okay, the race starts here for the sprint of stardom, make sure you're ready. But I'm clueless about the 2nd bit. Does anyone have any thoughts? I adore that song and it irritates me to think I don't completely understand it! Love Kate C ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:47:09 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays I always thought "lilac sprays" meant that the note was scented, like you'd spray a love letter. And it may have been before its time, but there are notepads that are shaped like butterflies, I don't know if they existed back in the early 70's but I think so. Cul, I loved your thoughts about comparing the writing technique in FTR to Furry. Loving the whole thread in fact...just wish I could be more active. They've got me firewalled at work once more. Bob NP: Pink Floyd, "Echoes" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 19:11:09 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Butterflies and lilac sprays I always thought the butterflies and lilac sprays were on girly stationary. Hence: "I get these notes on butterflies and lilac sprays, from girls who just have to tell me they saw you somewhere". Most of the time when Joni seems elliptical, she quoting from reality. Another example: "He gave her his darkness to regret and good reason to quit him." I found out decades after THOSL was released that the lines are about a blind guy: Jose Feliciano. In those middle decades, Joni was very sharp about recognizing her best lines and (persumably) editing away the sludge. Back then, crazy ideas like a dentist who collects junk never made it onto albums. BTW, it is the caressing "rev" of motors. Sincerely, Jim Kate said,>I was just wondering if anyone could throw any light on this mystifying lyric! "I get these notes on butterflies and lilac sprays, from girls who just have to tell me they saw you somewhere". "On your mark red ribbon runner, the caressing rub of motors finely tuned like fancy women in thirties evening gowns".> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:26:55 +1200 From: hell@ihug.co.nz Subject: Larry Klein (and Joni) mention... I just found this review for the first album ("Love & Such") from NZer Amber Claire: "Amber Claire is first and foremost a singer with a stunning, ethereal voice, and amazing range. The blueprint for the album was simple - take beautiful songs with broad appeal, produce them to the highest standard and let Ambers voice do the rest. The first single Love Remains was written by Larry Klein (a world class songwriter, musician and producer best known for his musical partnership with Joni Mitchell), produced by Simon Holloway and beautifully sung by Amber. The second single At Seventeen, written by Grammy award winning Janis Ian, was a hit for Ian in the 70s selling more than a million copies." No Joni covers, unfortunately ;o)! I haven't heard the album, but I've heard snippets of her "At Seventeen" cover, and she does a credible job. Hell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:49:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: do the HOSL! I likes it! I can CLEARLY see it as the gradient between CAS and Hejira. Clearly! Need to listen some more. Ordered FTR today btw. I feel sooo guilty and some how inadequate that I can't absorb DJRD. I'm like one of these meditteranean women who's system can never absorb enough iron (body just won't DO it) and who are forever anemic. My brain just won't "absorb" DJRD. As George Carlin says, "it goes straight to my colon"! Lori!!!!! I'm so sorry! maybe with time.... I should try it in my car..it still just doesn't "sound" that good to me..not sure why. Maybe its my stereo. But this here HOSL, yeah we're gonna be friends. Thanks everyone for indulging me in my journey. Em ps in time I learned to LOVE certain Dylan albums that at first seemed way difficult - like Planet Waves when it first came out..now its mother's milk to me.. ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 01:14:28 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays I have loved reading the replies to this thread, just wonderful, wonderful. Here's my take... To me this song has alwas been about Joni removing herself away from the trappings of her newfound fame (post Blue, she felt she was as transparent as a cigarette packet wrapper and needed to 'get away') so she built herself a stone cottage. Ok so that's the grandma sucking eggs part, Jamie, get on with it.. Well, in this song, she is seeing the trappings of her past in the events of her present, her reclusiveness is being invaded by what is haunting her ('I heard it in the wind last night, it sounded like applause'). So to me, when she 'get these notes on butterflies' - she's being haunted by another ghost - that of a missing lover. So when pretty butterflies come and float by, or girls pass by and leave her gifts, she feels that thay are all 'conspiring' (for the lack of a better word) to tell her something else ('They saw you... somewhere' possibly meaning that they saw him for *a reason*). Joni is reading too much into nature and well meaning girls, and it isn't good news. Are we surprised that Joni comes back from her 'reclusion' in a state of depression and lives with Geffen and takes a break from writing for a year until she has exorcised her demons and writed Court and Spark, released 2 years after FTR? Of course all this is pure conjecture but I like the image of butterflies 'bringing' her notes, and a pilgrimage of girls with lilac sprays (but now the image of underarm deodorant is making me chuckle, she was living alone in a stone cottage with no electricity, maybe she forgot to wash! lol! I can imagine a Jonifest welcome pack consisting of butterfly notepaper and deodorant. Ashara? An amazing poem, really, inspired by the wind blowing through the trees. And a whole lot more.... Much Joni Jamie Zoob x Kate Cox wrote: I was just wondering if anyone could throw any light on this mystifying lyric! "I get these notes on butterflies and lilac sprays, from girls who just have to tell me they saw you somewhere". - --------------------------------- How much mail storage do you get for free? Yahoo! Mail gives you 6MB! Get Yahoo! Mail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:24:41 +1200 From: hell@ihug.co.nz Subject: Re: do the HOSL! Em wrote: > I feel sooo guilty and some how inadequate that I > can't absorb DJRD. I'm like one of these > meditteranean women who's system can never absorb > enough iron (body just won't DO it) and who are > forever anemic. My brain just won't "absorb" DJRD. > As George Carlin says, "it goes straight to > my colon"! Lori!!!!! I'm so sorry! maybe with > time.... > I should try it in my car..it still just > doesn't "sound" that good to me..not sure why. > Maybe its my stereo. But this here HOSL, yeah > we're gonna be friends. > Thanks everyone for indulging me in my journey. I would suggest persevering with DJRD. Maybe put it away for a while, until you've heard HOSL and FTR, then bring it out again. It took me a while to "get it". The first time I heard it, I liked a couple of tracks (Jericho and Otis and Marlena) but on the whole I was disappointed. But now I love all of it - still some parts more than others, admittedly! I also found it worked well as background music, while I was doing other things, like reading, or housework, rather than actively listening. Maybe that would work for you, too? Hell NP: Anika Moa - Good In My Head ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 01:44:48 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: Re: do the HOSL! Hi Em Don't worry, DJRD will happen for you... it's just one of those things like realising that the horns in the opening track of DJRD are really played by a fretless bass (listen to it, read the liner notes, it's only Joni and Jaco on it. It's the things like that that are amazing about this album. Listen to Paprika Plains and try to find the join between the 'song' parts and the instrumental parts, the way the piano is tuned slightly differently between the 3 sections (as the instrumental section was part of improvisations that she did and hung it like 'a medallion' in the middle of the song. Or that she can go to her band and say, 'OK boys and girls, the next track is yours,' and gives them The Tenth World. Chaka Khan turns up and gives her vocal lines... It's a lot looser than Hejira but you still get the feeling that Joni is tessellating her players to where she wants them to come in. Some people think that this is Hejira Part Deux as she wrote the title song around the same time as Coyote (same tuning) and Dreamland was written for HOSL and Jericho was written before that. Some people think it's irregular (it's part folk, part jazz-funk, part contemporary Classical, part world music. It's political music, it has disco, it is surreal, it is realist, it poetic, it's gritty) but to me, it's the best of Joni in 4 sides (ok, so I'm showing my age). Even the album cover (my favourite poster after Mingus) is experimental - Joni blacking up! Joni as a Native American, Joni as a child, Joni plays with balloons and a magician's kid, some doves flap about. Why? It's crazy and funky and it works. I don't know why. Anyway Em, if Hejira is a car journey across America, DJRD is an aeroplane journey looking down on Life, trying to grasp the wider picture by looking at the detail. Travel safely. Go slow. Get into a meditative state and put it on. Much Joni Jamie Zoob Em wrote: I likes it! I can CLEARLY see it as the gradient between CAS and Hejira. Clearly! Need to listen some more. Ordered FTR today btw. I feel sooo guilty and some how inadequate that I can't absorb DJRD. I'm like one of these meditteranean women who's system can never absorb enough iron (body just won't DO it) and who are forever anemic. My brain just won't "absorb" DJRD. - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:30:21 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Joni Covers #31-40 Just to keep everyone informed, the Joni Covers #31-40 masters were sent Tuesday morning to Doug Meek up on the Joni side of the border (heh-heh-heh... do you like that one?) Doug: enjoy! Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:33:03 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Larry Klein (and Joni) mention... In a message dated 5/20/2004 7:30:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: No Joni covers, unfortunately ;o)! I haven't heard the album, but I've heard snippets of her "At Seventeen" cover, and she does a credible job. Thanks for checking, Hell - as you know I need LOTS of eyes & ears to get the job done. And speaking of "At 17", I'm looking forward to a night with Janis Ian in about 2 weeks. Bob, who would challenge that writer's claim of Klein as a "world class songwriter" but I'm in such a great mood I won't even mention it. NP: Prince, "Mr. Man" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:40:26 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: do the HOSL! **Don't worry, DJRD will happen for you... And if it never does Em, realize that it's OK and we all love you just as much. Chalk Mark, Travelogue and BSN don't happen for me, and I'm OK with that. Luckily we're not in high school anymore so we don't all have to like the same things to like each other. But I'll add that the leap from Hejira to DJRD, so just be persistent. Bob NP: Patti Smith, "Jubilee" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 22:42:19 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: butterflies and lilac sprays *W* signed: << Mrs. Robert Murphy-Kairuz -- oh god ! at last! a hyphenated last name! >> If I married more JMDLers, I'd be . . . Mrs. Robert "Troy" Stansfield McNally Paz Vickery Hone Fortenski Guzzi Johnson & Johnson Kairuz-Murphy! Hmm . . . Talk about being pinned in a corner! XO, - --Mrs. Norman Maine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 22:42:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: butterflies and lilac sprays --- Smurfycopy@aol.com wrote: > Kate writes: > > << "Some guy" is no-one special (would Joni be that > harsh though?). >> > > > Ha! The answer is YES! > > Also, maybe you never thought of stationary for > "butterflies and lilac > sprays" because that style of writing paper was out > of style before you ever arrived > in this world, Kate! > > --Smurf Ha. That goes to show how much YOU know. There are still people (women mostly, I guess) that use that terrible stuff. And the e-mail stationery too, which is even worse. I never pictured it as stationery. For some reason, I took it quite literally. I imagined a huge armful of lilacs tied up with ribbons and a few fake butterflies stuck in there, with notes attached from admiring female fans, who wanted her to get back with JT (or whoever it was she was talking about), so they'd tell her they had seen him somewhere, maybe to comfort her. These same people, 20 or 30 years on, would no doubt ask her about the JT affair, like it was yesterday, like the ones that still think Rickie Lee Jones and Tom Waits were the couple of the century. The red-ribbon-runner thing always reminded me of typewriters, the old-fashioned manual things. We used to have one at home that had belonged to my grandparents. It had one of those ribbons that was half black and half red ink and you could shift a key to change colours - I suppose it was really meant for typing accounting things and you could type all the negative amounts in red, but I used to love typing stories using that thing, switching back and forth between colours of ink. (I also had one of those pens that had 12 colours in one big fat pen, and you should push a button to change colours - how cool is that!) I know it doesn't make a lot of sense to the song but that's the image that always came to my mind - I imagined the songwriter using a typewriter to type the words, which is likely not the way it would be done. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 22:43:11 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: butterflies and lilac sprays Sorry for the lack of Joni content in my last post, Joni people. - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 22:57:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Butterflies and lilac sprays Wow, Jamie - this is a really great take on it! Once again, in Joni's words, "never mind what it means to me - what does it mean to you?" Yet one more reason why Joni is an artist you can discuss for a looonng time and never get tired of it. --- Jamie Zubairi wrote: > I have loved reading the replies to this thread, > just wonderful, wonderful. Here's my take... > ... So to me, when she 'get these notes > on butterflies' - she's being haunted by another > ghost - that of a missing lover. So when pretty > butterflies come and float by, or girls pass by and > leave her gifts, she feels that thay are all > 'conspiring' (for the lack of a better word) to tell > her something else ('They saw you... somewhere' > possibly meaning that they saw him for *a reason*). > Joni is reading too much into nature and well > meaning girls, and it isn't good news. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 23:03:02 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: butterflies and lilac sprays Ever one to keep the level of discourse elevated, McKay barks: << Ha. That goes to show how much YOU know. >> Catherine dear, the fact that you live with two teenagers is beginning to show. - --Mrs. Eleanor Rigby Beckham Depp-Pitt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 22:06:49 -0500 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: The Way the Music Died -vljc I just saw a clip on PBS for next week's Frontline - "The Way the Music Died." Neil was playing "It's better to burn out, than to fade away (hey hey my my)" Crosby and some others were talking about the wrong direction the music biz has/is headed. Maybe we'll get to hear some Joni gripes on this show? We can only hope! "The modern music scene was created in 1969, at Woodstock. A half million fans, dozens of artists, and the politics of the times came together for a "big bang" moment that eventually would generate billions of dollars. But, over the last 20 years, MTV, compact discs, corporate consolidation, Internet piracy, and greed have contributed to a perfect storm for the recording industry. This program examines how the business that has provided the soundtrack of the lives of a generation is on the verge of collapse." Mia npimh - "Embryonic Journey" - Airplane (stuck in my head from Friends) _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 23:03:54 -0500 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: Butterflies and Lilac Sprays Kate wrote: "I was just wondering if anyone could throw any light on this mystifying lyric! "I get these notes on butterflies and lilac sprays, from girls who just have to tell me they saw you somewhere". Hi Kate, I'm reading this from the digest archives, so maybe someone else here has mentioned this. But what I see in the song is that the "lilac sprays" are bouquets of flowers and the "butterflies" are those plastic note holders that you stick in the bouquet. I see Joni sharing a room with another guy (James Taylor?) and answering the door to pick up the flowers that are being delivered. Only the flowers are not for her....instead, they are for her roomie, and when she reads the little note attached to the butterfly, she discovers that the flowers came from other women. Just my take anyway. Mia _________________________________________________________________ Best Restaurant Giveaway Ever! Vote for your favorites for a chance to win $1 million! http://local.msn.com/special/giveaway.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 01:41:15 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: BSN, International Smash Well, sort of. With the release of the Love Actually DVD (I know, I know, many of you hated that movie and hated BSN for that matter), Both Sides Now has been selling in the 100s-300s for about a month now on Amazon.com, USA and UK. Today's trivia, FYI. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 02:04:39 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: May 21 On May 21 the following articles were published: 1998: "Bob Dylan, Van Morrison, Joni Mitchell" - CitySearch website (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=69 1998: "Dylan & Company Full of Surprises" - Reuters/Variety (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=250 1998: "Dylan's Time to Shine" - San Francisco Chronicle (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=328 1998: "Picking the guitarists who really know how to pick" - San Diego Union-Tribune (Biography) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=323 1998: "Robert Holliston's Response" - Toronto Globe and Mail (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=292 1998: "Still Rockin' Steady" - Los Angeles Times (Review - Concert, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=146 1999: "New Joni Mitchell Set A Standard Affair" - Billboard (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=438 2000: "Chastain Park Amphitheater" - Ink19 (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=702 2002: "A Tuesday in Amsterdam" - CountingCrows.com (Appreciation) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=853 2002: "Chelsea Clinton Visits Namesake" - AP Online (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=973 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 23:44:09 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Joni at the movies fantasy >Shrek 2 is coming out, here is my fantasy... The back up band D lahm on the piano would be the "Fox" from Pinocchio M Paz on Bass would be Woody the Wood Pecker Lead Guitar Kate Bennett would be "Ariel" (Disney Mermaid) The Announcer SC Joni Guy "Schroeder" the Pianist from Peanuts< LOL... I am flattered to be ariel but the band is in trouble if I am playing lead! ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #142 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)