From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #135 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, May 14 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 135 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum ["tantra-apso" ] Harry's House ["Kate Cox" ] parents [Kate ] HOSL/ more/ a request for speculation [Em ] Re: HOSL/ more/ a request for speculation [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: HOSL/ more/ a request for speculation [Em ] Re: HOSL/ more/ a request for speculation [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: HOSL/ more/ a request for speculation [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: HOSL/ more/ a request for speculation [Lori Fye ] Myrtle's contribution [LCStanley7@aol.com] Subject: Re: parents - Joni was a bad seed! [] 100% JC: songs about women and/or men; HOSL [] re: all the HOSL stuff etc [Bruce Kimerer ] re: all the HOSL stuff etc [Em ] Re: Joni Covers #31-40 [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: HOSL/ more/ a request for speculation [Lori Fye Subject: Re: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Bennett" To: Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 2:03 AM Subject: Re: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum > Colin>Kate's point about learning/seeing where the parents got their > shit from-doesn't make a great deal of difference. It can make it > worse-make it more incomprehensible.< > > It made a difference to me or I wouldn't have said it. It isn't some > theory I made up, its something I found helpful. It may not work for > everyone but that doesn't mean it might not for some. Hi kate: i wasn't being critical of you nor dismissing you point. You are right it works for some. It did for me but obviously in a different way to the way it worked for you. One thing that was of the greatest help was to realise that it wasn't 'me'. the same would have been done with any child. That caused a big leap into a more healthy life. bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:57:50 +0100 From: "tantra-apso" Subject: Re: re:Hejira, now Joni & her Mum - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Boudreau" To: Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 3:31 AM Subject: re:Hejira, now Joni & her Mum > Here Here, Colin, very well put. Wow, this is my very first post on > JMDL. Reading your post hit me. I totally agree. Anyway, hi everyone, > I'm Doug and am also a huge Joni fan. Hi Doug and welcome to the lsit. i am not sure which post of mine you are referring to but thanks for the comments! So how did you get into Joni? bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:16:17 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum, now hello Doug! **Another thing I've been meaning to ask is about this BBC program I saw a few years back(on CMT of all places),Songs of the Songwriters ??? or something like that. Has anyone else seen this show before??** Hi Doug, and welcome. I've not heard of this show before - we have some BBC footage in the JMDL archives but that title doesn't ring a bell. So I'm taking a wild shot and guessing you're a Beatle fan too? Hey, If I can be an SCJoniGuy, you can be a BeatleDoug. Looking forward to hearing more from you. Bob NP: Fareed Haque, "Woodstock" Return-Path: Received: from rly-xh06.mx.aol.com (rly-xh06.mail.aol.com [172.20.115.236]) by air-xh04.mail.aol.com (v99_r4.3) with ESMTP id MAILINXH42-70b40a2de1aaa; Wed, 12 May 2004 22:32:14 -0400 Received: from smoe.org (jane.smoe.org [199.201.145.78]) by rly-xh06.mx.aol.com (v99.12) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXH61-70b40a2de1aaa; Wed, 12 May 2004 22:31:55 -0400 Received: from smoe.org (ident-user@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smoe.org (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4D2VoD2010116 for ; Wed, 12 May 2004 22:31:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by smoe.org (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i4D2Vo9C010115 for joni-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 2004 22:31:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: smoe.org: majordom set sender to owner-joni@jmdl.com using -f Received: from fep1.cogeco.net (smtp.cogeco.net [216.221.81.25]) by smoe.org (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4D2VkD2010099 for ; Wed, 12 May 2004 22:31:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cogeco.ca (d150-172-120.home.cgocable.net [24.150.172.120]) by fep1.cogeco.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F00F8FCE for ; Wed, 12 May 2004 22:31:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 22:31:20 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: re:Hejira, now Joni & her Mum From: Doug Boudreau To: joni@smoe.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <9E8753EE-A485-11D8-8428-000502D7D985@cogeco.ca> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on jane.smoe.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Virus-Scanned: clamdscan / ClamAV version 0.60 X-Virus-Scanned: clamdscan / ClamAV version 0.60 Sender: owner-joni@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Doug Boudreau Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com X-AOL-IP: 199.201.145.78 Here Here, Colin, very well put. Wow, this is my very first post on JMDL. Reading your post hit me. I totally agree. Anyway, hi everyone, I'm Doug and am also a huge Joni fan. Another thing I've been meaning to ask is about this BBC program I saw a few years back(on CMT of all places),Songs of the Songwriters ??? or something like that. Has anyone else seen this show before?? Each show was a half hour I think and I just caught the end of Joni's episode. I heard there was one on Neil Young,James Tayler, and lord knows who else. I was wondering what her songlist was for that show. I'm sure some of you has seen it. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:46:56 +0000 From: "Kate Cox" Subject: HOSL Doug wrote: ">I remember my reaction to HOSL back in '75 when I was 19. It didn't completely turn me off >but I knew my relationship with Joni was going downhill. I did like most of side one and the title >song. The musical arrangements were better than ever except I didn't like the cheesy >synthesizer. >I was ambivalent about Harry's House, I imagined this was the type of life Joni saw in L.A.. I >couldn't identify with it though I knew it was something to be avoided. And I have been >successful at that. I followed Joni's music since 1968, my sister owned STAS and Judy Collins >Wildflowers. I liked Both Sides Now so when Clouds was released I bought it, my first LP. I was >hooked already. I distinctly remember the end of the line was when I heard Coyote. I hated it. >Her Jazz influence didn't impress me in a good way. I felt she had traded in her soul for style. >I finally bought Hejira on CD about a year ago but it doesn't do anything for me. And the >Shadows and Light DVD? yuk!" Thank you Doug, it's so interesting to hear a perspective from someone who followed Joni from the beginning of her career. I really think you should give Hejira another chance though! You write that she had traded in her soul for style, but maybe it was just a new way of communicating and expressing the contents of her soul. We learn as much about Joni's present state of mind on Hejira as we do on STAS, Blue or FTR. Just my opinion though, I can totally understand your point of view, as I am into a few modern bands (for example Radiohead) whose changes of style have made me feel quite bereaved sometimes. Bruce wrote:">Yes, I did buy the HOSL LP immediately. I was 21. And I totally loved it. I >had no problem with where JM's evolution was taking her. Loved Jungle Line. >Loved Scarlett. Loved Harry and S&L. In some ways, this record is my >favorite of all her records. >To me, her language was reaching peaks that she hadn't reached before. >Telling stories with a precision and subtlety and complexity that she has >matched, but still not surpassed. (The tunes are really good too.) >and kate added: >> My Dad warned me that >>it was a very disturbing song, and my take on it was always pretty much >>the same as yours: that Harry is trapped by a woman's body, greed and >> need for him.And Bruce said:>I don't know why -- but your dad's warning strikes me as funny. (I don't >know how old you are, and when this warning took place, or in what context, >but 'parental warnings' about Joni is funny.)" LOL! Like you, I was 21 when I first heard HOSL (I'm 22 now). I had just got back from university for the summer break last year, and I was raving to my dad about Hejira and begging him to let me listen to his precious vinyls of FTR and HOSL. He sat me down and played me side 2, telling me he had been waiting all his life for someone to talk about Joni with after losing touch with the friend who introduced him to Joni. When talking about Harry's House he couldn't help shuddering at the 'horror' of it, brilliant though he thinks it is. It wasn't a parental warning, my dad is totally chilled, it was just a moment of connection I guess, seeing his daughter at the beginning of a journey he had once taken. He told me that when I was a baby he used to sing me to sleep with 'Barangrill' and 'Electricity'. I can't remember this at all, but I expect it is written deep on my soul and is part of the reason I love Joni so much. Can I just say, I have been putting my posts in paragraphs, but every time they appear on the list they are all bunched together which must make them quite hard to read! Does anyone else have this problem with Hotmail/ have any suggestions what I could do about it, please? I'm not very e-literate, as they say! Love Kate C - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Have more fun with your phone - download ringtones, logos, screensavers, games & more. Click here to begin! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:48:51 +0000 From: "Kate Cox" Subject: Harry's House Jenny wrote: >I'm curious what you or anyone else thinks of Centerpiece - does it add to the story for you? >Do you see the transition as disjointed or appropriate. Hell wrote: >It seems to me that the inclusion of >Centrepiece is to illustrate what he thought married life would be like, >rather than the stale, unexciting existence he's now trapped in. >I think Joni uses this brilliantly to - quite dramatically - counter what >the rest of the song is saying. Here's this bleak existence, but "this", >ie. Centrepiece, is what he thought marriage would be like. Then, rather >than ending the song on that positive note, she goes straight back into >Harry's House and continues the description of the "pool-side goddess", >who - rather than being his Centrepiece - has become something quite >different! It's interesting the totally different impressions people get. I think Centrepiece is used, not to counter the rest of the song, but to back up the sense of the horrific, suffocating neediness with which Harry is trapped. To say, "Nothing's any good without you, baby you're my centrepiece" is basically to tell somebody that they are responsible for your life. They are the only good thing in your life, your life would not be worth living without them, and when they aren't around you have no reason for your existence. "When you coming home Harry? Nothing's any good". Now I don't think the original writers of Centrepiece would have seen it that way: I think it is supposed to be a love song. But Joni, by placing it in the middle of her own dissection of a needy relationship, and by introducing it with that heart-juddering time change and eerie chanting, reveals its true nature. If I'm right, Centrepiece is a song from the 50's, when belief in the American Dream was still fairly widespread amongst the young. Growing up with songs like that would have provided them with a structure for loving relationships in the context of slavish pursuit of money and possessions. This is only my opinion though, and I don't mean to be rude about anyone who has ever said anything along the lines of "Nothing's any good without you, baby you're my centrepiece". I have done so myself on several occasions, and this is only one point of view on the matter! Some people find it nice to be needed, I do sometimes. Bob wrote: >Regarding Harry's House, like you say I don't think Joni >paints either of the characters as the "bad guy" in the >situation, rather they've used each other to achieve what they >THOUGHT they wanted, only to discover their lack of fulfillment >and frustration while simultaneously acknowledging the trap >they're in. Bob, you've captured exactly what I meant without rambling on half as much as I did! Believe it or not I do try to be parsimonious, but I think I've got a way to go... Love Kate C - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Stay in touch better and keep protected online with MSNs NEW all-in-one Premium Services. Find out more here. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:08:29 -0500 From: Kate Subject: parents kate B > It made a difference to me or I wouldn't have said it. It isn't some > theory I made up, its something I found helpful. It may not work for > everyone but that doesn't mean it might not for some. I agree with you Kate, I think it can make quite a big difference. Knowing that our parents only "dished out" what *they* were taught as children helps us understand that they were not monsters, but only human, doing the best they could with the upbringing, knowledge, and patterns of behaviour they grew up with. Understanding how our parents were raised can help us to forgive them if we are willing to do so, and move past blaming our parents for our personal problems, to taking responsibility for what we do with our own lives *from now on.* To me, this seems a huge and necessary release of resentment that frees up a lot of personal power. A friend who knows someone who knows Myrtle told me that Joni has been nothing but a disappointment to her mother. Is that not crazy? But hey, it looks like no matter how great Joni's genius and graciousness, Joni will never be "good enough" for Myrtle, who has her own Puritan standards for what makes a good woman, and they are not the same as Joni's standards. Myrtle is probably every bit as hard on herself; it makes me wonder what kind of stick-up-the-ass parents raised her. Anyway, the woman must have done *something* right, to raise a daughter like Joni. Either that, or Joni has spent a lifetime trying not to be like her mother. NorthKate More Wildlife http://xoetc.antville.org Who does she think she is, Anaos Nin? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:43:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: HOSL/ more/ a request for speculation OK all this talk of HOSL has got me thinking I have to have this CD. Was wondering if, based on the other JM stuff I like, someone could guess whether HOSL is gonna be one I like. I gotta admit I'm having a hard time finding much joy in DJRD. LOVE Hejira, LOVE Blue and the earlier stuff. So given that I like those works, but am having a tough time with DJRD (my shortcoming I'm sure) will I likely enjoy HOSL? or? impossible to venture a guess? thanks! I'm spending too much $$ on CD's these days..gotta make them "count". Am thinking about getting either "hits" or "misses" or both... Em ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:02:19 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: HOSL/ more/ a request for speculation Em, I would like to think that you'd like it, but I don't want that liability hanging over my head if you don't. Suggestion: go to Amazon.com and pull it up onscreen. They offer 30-second samples of 5 of the tracks. At least that will give you a taste of the sound of it. It's definitely not folk-rock, Babe. Bob NP: Christine Sullivan, "Here & Now" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:19:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: HOSL/ more/ a request for speculation - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > It's definitely not folk-rock, Babe. so, according to the "Bob-filter" would you call Hejira folk-rock? is it more like DJRD or more like Hejira? or impossible to tell..anyway I will check the Amazon thing...I always have probs getting those clips to play. For me its actually easier to go to Limewire, down a song and play it than to do whatever RealPlayer wanst me to do to get those clips to play..lol, sad but true.... Maybe I'll call the radio staion tomorrow morning, ask them to play something of HOSL and keep my ears on... :) with appreciation, Babe ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:59:39 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: HOSL/ more/ a request for speculation DRJD is very similar to Hejira, some of the songs were composed at the same time. The title track to DJRD is like "Coyote, Part II", and when she wrote them she played the two as a medley in concert. But I don't compare HOSL to them, really...HOSL has a different set of players and the sound is more dense - Hejira is much more looser and freersounding, and on many tracks is an ongoing dialogue between Joni, her guitar, and Jaco on bass. Lyrically though they are all outstanding in their own right, but I can appreciate that it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing for ya. As for categorizing Hejira, it's uncategorizable. It's just "Joni" music. Bob NP: The Sundays, "Through The Dark" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:03:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: HOSL/ more/ a request for speculation Em wrote: is it more like DJRD or more like Hejira? or impossible to tell..anyway I'd say it has more in common with Hejira. I had never really listened to HOSL until about a year ago and when I did, it made so much sense that this was the album that came between Court and Spark and Hejira - like a piece of a puzzle snapping into place. It shares a lot musically with both, but is it's own unique genius. I say go for it Em. For years and years, Hejira, was without a doubt my 'desert-island' disc. Now HOSL gives it a run for the money. Jenny Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 14:18:05 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: parents - Joni was a bad seed! **A friend who knows someone who knows Myrtle told me that Joni has been nothing but a disappointment to her mother. Is that not crazy? It certainly causes much rolling of the eyes, but I can totally understand it from her Mom's perspective. I mean, look at the record: - -Started piano lessons as a child but quit because she was undisciplined; - -Enjoyed art in school but was otherwise a poor student; - -Took up smoking at age 9; - -Started Art College but quit and (basically)ran away from home; - -Two marriages, both ending in divorce - -Provided no grandchildren (until WAY after the fact) - -A series of public love affairs - -Sloppy housekeeper (ever seen her art studio?) And these are just the things that Myrtle would have known about. Assuming that she attaches little merit to fame & fortune, it's pretty easy to see why she's disappointed in how Joni turned out, especially when people are going to "blame" the parents. Now don't get me wrong...I'm not saying that Myrtle is right in her disappointment at all, just that I can see where she's coming from. When you judge someone based on YOUR expectations of what you want them to be rather than what they are, there's always going to be a huge chasm I think. And on the other hand, maybe she perceives her daughter as an unhappy person, and all she wants for her is happiness. Bob NP: The Sundays, "Goodbye" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:37:45 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Jonifest 2004 VERY IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hi Gang!! For any of you who may not know me, I'm Donna Binkley and am the registrar for Jonifest 2004. As such, my job is to remind everyone of deposits and monetary deadlines for Jonifest, so you will be hearing much more from me during the next few weeks/months. As a reminder, all deposits and all remaining balances are due on JUNE 15, 2004!!!!!! Only 1 month away. Also, for those of you who will be flying, something I noticed last year was that during June-August, when school is out, flight prices seemed to soar compared to other times of the year. I just wanted to put that out there so that maybe you can save a few bucks on your flight by booking sooner rather than later. We are going to have a wonderful time again this year so get your forms filled out and your money in NOW! For complete information on Jonifest 2004 go to www.jmdl.com. Please join us in making this the best Jonifest ever! Love, Donna This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:27:41 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: parents Kate from the north >A friend who knows someone who knows Myrtle told me that Joni has been nothing but a disappointment to her mother. Is that not crazy?< Mom's & daughters have their issues but even so this is a bit shocking. And very sad. Not only for Joni but for Myrtle who is missing out on such a wonderful opportunity to feel joy & to love her daughter. My son has taken a different path than I ever expected but boy am I proud of him in so many ways. It takes letting go of control & having them meet YOUR expectations & seeing them for who they really are. A parent's challenge for sure. Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 14:16:03 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: HOSL/ more/ a request for speculation Em wrote: > OK all this talk of HOSL has got me thinking I have to have this CD. Ahem, Babe? You'll eventually have to have ALL of Joni's CDs. (For my 40th birthday my present to myself was all of JM's CDs that I didn't already have. It was expensive but one of the best gifts ever!) Jenny wrote: > I say go for it Em. For years and years, Hejira, was without a doubt my > 'desert-island' disc. Now HOSL gives it a run for the money. I have to agree. HOSL is my 2nd fave after Hejira, and I just swoon when I hear and "Edith and the Kingpin" and "Shades of Scarlet Conquering." Get the album, Em! Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:46:03 -0400 From: cul Subject: Re: HOSL/ more/ a request for speculation Em wrote: >OK all this talk of HOSL has got me thinking I have to have this CD. >Was wondering if, based on the other JM stuff I like, someone could >guess whether HOSL is gonna be one I like. >I gotta admit I'm having a hard time finding much joy in DJRD. >LOVE Hejira, LOVE Blue and the earlier stuff. >So given that I like those works, but am having a tough time with DJRD >(my shortcoming I'm sure) will I likely enjoy HOSL? or? >impossible to venture a guess? >thanks! >[snip] > Hi Em, Joni sez: "Write in your own blood." I have always listened to each new Joni album (or CD) in the same spirit. DJRD is a toughie for some folks because its often got a "let the rough side drag" attitude. To me it is one her spectacular achievements. My guess, based on the slightest of evidence of other titles you have an special affection for, is that you will find HOSL more instantly accessible. Aside from the exquisite orchestral poem of Paprika Plains, most of DJRD is new sonic landscape and contains a good deal of experimental mixing. The lyrics on DJRD is also tougher and more abstract in some ways than most of her albums. ["...and a country road came off the wall/and swooped down on the crowd at the bar..."]. HOSL is far more accessible in that each tune is really painted as a "story" or vignette...with the feel of punctuation at the end of lines and the melodies are more "whistle-able". So my bet is that you will like HOSL better sooner than DJRD. However, all of that will change over time and you will be as unable as the rest of us long time Joni addicts to prefer one of her sonic children over another in any serious way. cul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:46:04 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Myrtle's contribution "Mitchell credits her love of words to both her mother, Myrtle Anderson, who recited Shakespeare to Mitchell as she was growing up, and to a seventh grade teacher, Mr. Kratzman, who, upon learning of the young Mitchellbs love for painting, told her, bif you can paint with a brush then you can paint with words.b Poetry Magazine, Joni Mitchell, June-July 2000 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 18:01:19 -0400 From: Subject: Subject: Re: parents - Joni was a bad seed! Storekeepers (like Bill Anderson) and school teachers (like Myrtle Anderson) must have an orderly atmosphere. No one can sell lettuce or teach history in chaos. In that she popped out of the orderly environment, she probably disappointed her mum. But she was much loved, as witnessed by her confidence and her ability to see the turning point when her rebellious high school friends became criminals. I think she turned out "all right". Jim L'Hommedieu np: Emmylou Harris' "One Big Love" from the "RED DIRT GIRL", which has become a perennial favorite. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 19:21:58 -0400 From: Subject: 100% JC: songs about women and/or men; HOSL Goodspeed, Here's my take on "Harry's House / Centerpiece" but just remember- you asked for it. "Centerpiece" is part of Joni's literary masterpiece, "The Hissing Of Summer Lawns". She's talking about the Big Themes of life on this album. Her take is that families are a shallow existence for those caught up in Corporate America. She could have used the word "plastic" but by 1975, when Harry's House was copywritten, it was a cliche. Have you ever seen paper dolls? What could possibly be a better metaphor for something shallow than paper? "Paper wives and their paper kids paper the walls to keep their gut re*act*ions hid." Did you ever notice that she breaks up the syllables there? Shes a genius about putting amazingly great lines of summation just before an instrumental break. It gives you time to mull it over, to see into the metaphor, to savor the juices. This isnt ' Dance dance dance. Lets make some ro- mance. ' Harry's life is as shallow as wallpaper and the only thing keeping him from coming unglued is a daydream of a simpler time- the poolside memory of the perfect, air-brushed angel. The production effects put the listener inside his daydream. It is the aural equivalent to a wavy flashback effect in film. His memory of the pool leads logically to the first few memories of setting up house together. That part is 'Centerpiece'. Joni had it in her head for decades by 1975 and she used it skillfully, when it would be most appropriate and powerful. Its not a gratuitous 'take' on Annie Ross wedged in there. She needed a 'quote' from an idealistic time. She could have used 'Why Dont Fools Fall In Love' but she didnt intend to make you laugh. She intended to invoke fuzzy idealism. She didnt use the whole song because the point was not to 'cover' one of Annies songs; the point was to quote Annie's idealism. Like a collagist, she scaled each piece of the album skillfully because *The Whole* is the thing. Do you remember the liner notes where shes talking about the mysterious whole that she wont unravel for anyone? THOSL is a collage and 'Centerpiece' is an element of it. In the narrative, Harry is in a wistful dream when he calls his wife. Instead of solace he gets a dose of the Mess back home. Centerpieces optimism is absolutely necessary to setup the jolt of reality during the call. It is also an indispensible setup for the sucker punch at the end. 'Centerpiece' perfectly illustrates Harrys reflection. Like the rest of THOSL, this is a master stroke, made when she was exploring some of the biggest themes. To me, 'Centerpiece' is a profoundly appropriate choice. Sincerely, Jim L'Hommedieu Covington, KY, US Jenny Goodspeed said, >Harry's House has really captivated me for the last year or so, and so I am really enjoying reading your takes on it Kate and Bruce. In addition to being indoctrinated with ideas about materialism, I think they are also trapped by traditional roles as husband (businessman, bread-winner) and wife (house and garden). I'm curious what you or anyone else thinks of Centerpiece - does it add to the story for you? Do you see the transition as disjointed or appropriate. Musically speaking, I wish it wasn't there - but I do love the effects Joni uses to move in and out of Centerpiece. gives it a real sense it's a flashing backwards in time. Maybe this it's all kind of obvious, but I've always wondered what lead Joni to add that section - breaking up the flow of Harry's House.> Jenny Goodspeed said, >Harry's House has really captivated me for the last year or so, and so I am really enjoying reading your takes on it Kate and Bruce. In addition to being indoctrinated with ideas about materialism, I think they are also trapped by traditional roles as husband (businessman, bread-winner) and wife (house and garden). I'm curious what you or anyone else thinks of Centerpiece - does it add to the story for you? Do you see the transition as disjointed or appropriate. Musically speaking, I wish it wasn't there - but I do love the effects Joni uses to move in and out of Centerpiece. gives it a real sense it's a flashing backwards in time. Maybe this it's all kind of obvious, but I've always wondered what lead Joni to add that section - breaking up the flow of Harry's House.> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 20:02:36 -0400 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: re: all the HOSL stuff etc Wow. All this Joni content is making me dizzy. kate wrote: > He sat me down and played me side 2, telling me > he had been waiting all his life for someone to talk about Joni with > after losing touch with the friend who introduced him to Joni. This is so cool. I don't really know, of course, but your relationship with your dad seems so great. On both sides. (insert 'now' here.) He takes the time and makes the effort to share what has been important to him. And you take the time and the make the effort to appreciate something that to many people your age is ancient history. Lot of empathy there. (Maybe your dad would like to join this list.) Being 21 in 2003 and being 21 in 1975 is a difference I can't really imagine. I would think it rare for many of your peers to be much interested in this music. (If I was 22 now, what would I be listening to? I don't know.) I can appreciate relatively new artists like Wilco and Ryan Adams because their music is to a large extent an extension of the music from 30 years ago. The only new form to emerge since then has been hip-hop/rap, which I don't enjoy. (I don't count electronica/techno because it doesn't have words.) If I was 22 today, I would like to think that I would be on the 'cutting edge' of my peer group. But I don't know where that edge really is, and there's no reason why I should because it's not 'my generation.' and then Jenny wrote: > I'm curious what you or anyone else thinks of Centerpiece - > does it add to the story for you? >Do you see the transition as > disjointed or appropriate. Centerpiece is the centerpiece, figuratively and literally. Listening to it last night I agree with Hell's take: > It seems to me that the inclusion of >> Centrepiece is to illustrate what he thought married life would be like, Another 'dream some of us had.' It's only in being able to look at her whole body of work that the theme of expectations vs. actual outcomes can be seen as one of her big concerns. Hejira takes this even further. Centerpiece puts the poignancy into the song; and the retro feeling lets her be ironic and heartfelt at the same time. then Em wrote: > Was wondering if, based on the other JM stuff I like, someone could > guess whether HOSL is gonna be one I like. You bet! Hissing is the absolute best! It's got everything --(soft) rock n roll, jungle drums, early synth, cocaine use, pitch-perfect stories, ennobling anthems, Henri Rousseau, bloodied barbed wire, and Bloomingdales. Who could ask for anything more? Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:32:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: re: all the HOSL stuff etc - --- Bruce Kimerer wrote: > You bet! Hissing is the absolute best! It's got everything --(soft) > rock n > roll, jungle drums, early synth, cocaine use, pitch-perfect stories, > ennobling anthems, Henri Rousseau, bloodied barbed wire, and > Bloomingdales. > Who could ask for anything more? wow you got me drooling now. Can't wait! Great description Bruce! You paint with broad and vivid strokes! ahh Rousseau, the border guard who painted jungle animals peeking from the leaves..love it! :D Someone mentioned HOSL falls between CAS and Hejira, so if its in anyway the gradient that joins them, then its bound to be great. Just spoke with my Mom, who explained to me there is some song on the "Both Sides Now" CD that she heard during a show on Joni on PBS that she loves and simply must have. But she doesn't know what it is. So I gave her Bob's advice of going on Amazon.com to check out the cuts. This is pretty cool now, connecting with mom on this stuff. Told her about ya'll. :) Em ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 22:29:14 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Covers #31-40 Hi to all, Well, I finally made copies of the ten covers discs #31-40 and, as per the rules governing this vine, I'm now offering the originals to the next person striving to acquire all of Bob's monumental 50 + discs of Joni covers. (This MUST be a record in itself, Bob... I'll bet no other fan of any artist has done something this comprehensive. If so, I'll love to know "who" and "what"). The first person who contacts me by email gets 'em, including the disc with all the titles of all the songs on all the discs PLUS some nifty "extras" of some non-joni concert footage. I'm currently seeking any of the other packages of discs so I can fill in those I'm missing. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 19:40:16 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: HOSL/ more/ a request for speculation Em wrote: > ps so instead of what a "long strange trip its been"..its "what a long > strange trip its gonna be"! hey I'm up for it..I like the sense of > "future".. For me, this is absolutely the best part of being on this list! I love knowing that my friends (new and old) are discovering gems of Joni's for the first time, and I look forward to reading and hearing y'all's "takes" on your new treasures. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 20:05:41 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: 100% JC: songs about women and/or men; HOSL Bravo, Jim! Excellent post. > Joni had it in her head for decades by 1975 and she used it skillfully, when > it would be most appropriate and powerful. And Joni married it so well with the theme of living an empty life with an shallow wife, which had been stuck in her head at least since "The Arrangement." "You're the keeper of the cards Yes I know it gets hard Keeping the wheels turning And the wife she keeps the keys She is so pleased to be A part of the arrangement" http://www.jmdl.com/lyrics/TheArrangement.cfm Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 02:19:03 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: May 14 On May 14 the following articles were published: 1970: "Joni Mitchell's New Album Will Mean More To Some Than To Others" - Rolling Stone (Advertisement) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=294 2000: "Joni Mitchell reveals new side at LA concert" - Dallas Morning News (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=506 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #135 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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