From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #133 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, May 12 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 133 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: Joni's music & lovemaking ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: Joni's music & lovemaking ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Joni's music & lovemaking [Em ] Re: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum ["tantra_apso" ] Offer Closed: Perpetual Joni Covers Train: Volumes 11-20 of JM Covers [Do] RE: Joni's music & lovemaking [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: songs about women and/or men [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: Furry [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Song for Sharon/Kate ["Maggie McNally" ] Re: is it just ME???? [Lori Fye ] Re: Furry [Lori Fye ] Re: Furry [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Furry [Lori Fye ] Re: Furry [Em ] Re: Hejira ["Kate Cox" ] Re: Hejira [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] backup vocals sfs ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Furry [Lori Fye ] Re: Furry [Randy Remote ] Song for Sharon ["G'n H" ] Re: Folk Music... ["Paul Castle" ] RE: Joni's music & lovemaking [=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= ] Re: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum ["Kate Bennett" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 07:29:16 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Joni's music & lovemaking i have done some SERIOUS slow dancing to blue motel room (in fact, my DJ friend turned it into quite a fashionable track at a local gay club) but always found joni a little castrating as background music for sex. i mean, i can't imagine myself in the middle of a f-ing and s-ing session ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 07:32:36 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Joni's music & lovemaking hit it too soon. i was going too write that i can't imagine myself in a room full of bears and all of a sudden you hear little green or the sire of sorrow or something like that. *W* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 07:17:56 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum **The love two adults share is quite different from the parent child love she was needing. That's a very valid point Colin, and I agree wholeheartedly. And then when you add into THAT the fact that she was a mother in her own right who was never able to nurture her own child, it really makes for a whirlwind of emotional turbulence and potentially arrested development. I'm no psychiatrist, but even in my ignorance I can only guess how many things you'd have to work through with that kind of combo. I'll never forget the video of Joni at the opening of her Mendel exhibition, with Bill & Myrtle sitting by the podium. Her Dad was just smiling and beaming, looking so proud of Joni, while her Mom looked very uncomfortable and seemed to stare out into the adoring crowd without a clus as to why all these people were making such a fuss over such a rebellious child. That clip really does tell the whole story, as does "Face Lift" as you say. Hard to imagine an adult woman in her 50's who still has such serious issues with her Mom. Bob NP: Frannie Verney & The Big Idea, "Rainy Night House" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 05:26:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: RE: Joni's music & lovemaking - --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > hit it too soon. i was going too write that i can't imagine myself in > a room > full of bears and all of a sudden you hear little green or the sire > of > sorrow or something like that. > *W* yeah if I had to hear "Marcie's sorrow needs a man" while , err, "trying"...I would pretty much get a boo boo face and it would be like a bucket of cold water to the crotch. But you know what?? I for one - don't need JM's music to be there "for that". So its no problem for me. I also prefer silence for this activity. Guess my brain is limited. Good morning everyone! as Bruce Cockburn sang, "may your boots always fit". Em ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:05:57 +0100 From: "tantra_apso" Subject: Re: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum / ----- Original Message ----- From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com To: tantraapso@btopenworld.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:17 PM Subject: Re: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum **The love two adults share is quite different from the parent child love she was needing. Hard to imagine an adult woman in her 50's who still has such serious issues with her Mom. Me: Not really. Everyone has issues of some sort. Parent /child issues usually last a lifetime. Even when one is able to do 'the work' and deal with it, it is still an issue and still has it's affect. Tho if one does do the work, you can live well despite it. In this case, I mean that if Joni had come to terms with this, she could have that relationship with another adult and not let the parent/child issue interfere to the extent it ruins what she has. It will always be there and always have the ability to cause waves, large or small, but it's power would be very much diminished if dealt with. Today, with therapy and 'issue awareness' it seems people have come to the erroneous conclusion that a time in therapy or dealing with 'issues' in some way, consigns the issues and their affects to the dustbin. Not so. All it does is enable one to live more effectively WITH the issues. It does not get rid of them. It gives one more voices, more choices. For example, seeing young children with their parents, for someone whose young childhood was toubled, would likely cause a negative thought such as 'i wonder what those parents do when no one is looking'. With some work, that same thought may well still come but other more positive thoughts, such as 'isn't it good to see a child so loved' would also come and thus one has more balance. Issues that come about in young childhood are never vanquished and in times of stress of just out of the blue can cause chaos no matter one's age. Just paying for fuel, to be confronted by a person who thru no fault of their own, just reminds you of an abuser, subconsiously, can drastically alter behaviour and fuck up the day! Any number of situations, words used, mannerisms, events, can have resonance with past events and cause one to relive those negative events over and over, aware or not. It is the awareness, or learning to be aware, that can make all the difference and whilst it would not stop such regressions, or flashbacks, it can lessen their impact. Another reason why people can be of advanced years and still have the same issue untouched, is because many people find it very diffilcut to let go of hope. Hope that the parent will one day grant their approval, or their love, or will become aware of their wrongdoing. That hope is extremely powerful, that dream is very very hard to let go but it is often necessary to let go of such hope in order to free oneself from that never to be satisfied hunger. It is the same reason people stay locked in relationships(of any kind, but especially child to parent) with parents who are so obivously toxic. The hope that they will change is powerful, or more frequently, the belief that 'if i could only change they woul love me', is powerful. The realisation that a person's parent is not good is also too much to bear so they continue playing the agonizing game. bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 07:12:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Furry was just looking to look at the Hejira cover online while I am supposed to be working at work, and happened upon this page about Furry Lewis. http://www.wirz.de/music/lewisfrm.htm Have any of you all seen this? Is this "old hat" to you? Sorry if so...just thought I'd throw it out there. lurv, Em ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:14:44 -0400 From: Doug Subject: Offer Closed: Perpetual Joni Covers Train: Volumes 11-20 of JM Covers Look for Emiliano to re-offer soon. Doug ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 07:17:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: RE: Joni's music & lovemaking Em wrote: Good morning everyone! as Bruce Cockburn sang, "may your boots always fit". Em, I looove that song! I play it when I'm having a tough time dragging my butt to work in the morning. I still maintain there are a few of Joni tunes that aren't mood killers. But I'm wired to respond to gorgeous chord progressions (really a major 7th can just slay me lol) and can tune out lyrics pretty easily. Jenny Em wrote: - --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > hit it too soon. i was going too write that i can't imagine myself in > a room > full of bears and all of a sudden you hear little green or the sire > of > sorrow or something like that. > *W* yeah if I had to hear "Marcie's sorrow needs a man" while , err, "trying"...I would pretty much get a boo boo face and it would be like a bucket of cold water to the crotch. But you know what?? I for one - don't need JM's music to be there "for that". So its no problem for me. I also prefer silence for this activity. Guess my brain is limited. Good morning everyone! as Bruce Cockburn sang, "may your boots always fit". Em ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 07:43:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: songs about women and/or men Interesting points Bruce - In fact, I'd rather sit here and think about this all morning than do my actual work. In a lot of ways Joni identified more with being 'one of the boys' or at least made an effort to not adhere to stereotypical gender roles. Harry's House reflects that - these two people trapped in their traditional roles who are utterly unsatisfied. And thinking of Shades of Scarlett - which is a scathing description of this woman - who has this feminine facade masking a kind of ruthlessness and darkness. I've listened to this trying to find an ounce of empathy - does Joni identify with this woman in some small way. To my ears she doesn't. Joni captures the complexity of being human (using so few words). I mean I think that's why we will listen to Hejira and HOSL the rest of our natural lives and always here something new. Jenny Bruce Kimerer wrote: It seems to me that JM was equally skilled in writing about women and men. Many times she deals with both perspectives in the same song. And both are treated with candor and an unflinching dedication to honesty rather than an expected/fashionable PC POV. HOSL is full of complicated relationships. Harry's House seems now to me to be, poignantly, about Harry. I remember when I first knew and loved the song I felt, in accordance with the times, that it was about a woman who had been made an object by an ambitious, corporate-success-hungry husband -- "nothings's any good" because he has essentially abandoned her, left to choose wallpaper instead of allowing her to be self-actuated. Now I hear it as something very different -- about a woman who got who she wanted but is still not satisfied, while her husband does what he needs to do to provide her with what she wants. JM provides the knowing kicker: "Shining as she reeled him in." Harry is still smitten (Centerpiece) by a woman who keeps reeling him in by his fond memories and her complaints. Nothing's any good. Joni has always treated men and women with the same no-bullshit eye. Bruce PS. My only complaint is when JM opts for generalizations rather than specifics. Her very best work is always like a short story, not a statement on an issue or a re-imagining of another text. Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:44:32 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Furry Furry Sings The Blues is an autobiographical song about Joni visiting Furry Lewis in Memphis. He was pretty pissed when it came out and he wasn't compensated in any way: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=107 Bob NP: Sting, "The Hounds of Winter" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:14:24 -0400 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: RE: Song for Sharon/Kate AB-SO-LUTE-LY!!! Reason enough to come to Jonifest, and there are soooooo many more. x, Maggie - -----Original Message----- From: AsharaJM@aol.com [mailto:AsharaJM@aol.com] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 4:26 PM To: emzdogz@yahoo.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Song for Sharon/Kate Em wrote: <> Oh Em, I have a MUCH better idea! Come to Jonifest and WIN "Woman of Heart and Mind" from the RAFFLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Right, Maggie???? :-) Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 09:24:24 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: is it just ME???? Quoting Rick: > It is very obviously her left arm with a thin metal bracelet on it, sticking > out from under her fur coat and disappearing into a slit pocket which is now > obscured by the asphalt of the highway. Or ... it is a "boom boom pachyderm." ; ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 09:30:55 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Furry Bob wrote: > Furry Sings The Blues is an autobiographical song about Joni > visiting Furry Lewis in Memphis. > He was pretty pissed when it came out and he wasn't compensated > in any way: I don't have time to read the article just now, but I want to know this: why did Furry Lewis think he deserved "compensation"?? Since when must a songwriter compensate someone for writing about them? Or is this a standard practice? Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:39:06 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Furry I think Joni's song tells us why. He was used to people bringing him booze and cigarettes to get him to talk and play about the old days. He loved the bribes. He lived in poverty all his life and thought he deserved compensation of some kind. Jerry > Bob wrote: > >> Furry Sings The Blues is an autobiographical song about Joni >> visiting Furry Lewis in Memphis. >> He was pretty pissed when it came out and he wasn't compensated >> in any way: > > I don't have time to read the article just now, but I want to know this: why > did Furry Lewis think he deserved "compensation"?? Since when must a > songwriter compensate someone for writing about them? Or is this a standard > practice? > > Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 09:54:30 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Furry Jerry answered my query: > I think Joni's song tells us why. He was used to people bringing him booze > and cigarettes to get him to talk and play about the old days. He loved the > bribes. He lived in poverty all his life and thought he deserved > compensation of some kind. Okay, I'll buy that. But I can't imagine that Joni wouldn't share a smoke with him! : ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:08:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Furry - --- Lori Fye wrote: > Okay, I'll buy that. But I can't imagine that Joni wouldn't share a > smoke with > him! : ) yeah, I'm kinda hoping she maybe slipped him a couple grand after a while. Under the table, so as not to set a legal precedent perhaps. "WWJD"? puhleeeze.....just kiddin'.. Em ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:16:47 +0000 From: "Kate Cox" Subject: Re: Hejira Bob wrote: >But to take that Joni lyric a step further..."the well was deep and muddy". >Now, you can certainly take that literally that the woman drowned herself in a >well, but you can also interpret it as meaning that the "well" of her life was >a deep dark quagmire from which she felt no escape other than suicide was >possible. Even on the surface it's a great lyric, but when you start to peel >layers...oh, my. And Hell wrote: >Here's a classic example of why I love this list - I'd never even thought of >the "well" in that context before. It was always a literal thing to me, but >it does make a lot of sense. I should have known better from the queen of >"duality" I guess, especially since SFS is one of my favourite songs. But >there's just so much depth to this album - in every song - that maybe I just >haven't lived long enough to decipher it all yet! Joni's song-writing >career may well be over, but personally, the exploration of what she has >written is far from over! It also makes sense that if her life was the "well" that was "deep and muddy", that she would be "shaking off futility". In other words, shaking off the mud. I really think you are right about this Bob. That verse has a different mood from the rest of the song, and it seems to be set apart by its mournful backing vocals. I have to say I think Joni is the absolute queen of backing vocals, as well as Hell's "queen of duality". When those heavenly backing vocals kick in after "they can balance and they can climb", it is honestly one of the best moments in the history of music, in my opinion! (Challenged only by 'laughing it all away' in People's Parties). Now, I've always wondered, do you think she is actually enunciating anything in the Song for Sharon backing vocals? Someone once asked me if she was saying "Be the leader". Until that point, I'd just assumed it was dee-dee-dee-da, oh dee-dee-dee-dee-dah! Another lyrics point... and I know this is going to me make me look really thick... when I first got into Hejira I only had it on tape, and there were no lyrics in the case. When I bought it on CD, I found I had got some of the lyrics wrong, and one of them was in that verse. I thought the woman she knew who had just drowned herself was "shaking off FERTILITY or punishing somebody". i thought it fitted in really well with the rest of the song, the fact that Joni had rejected her pre-ordained role as a wife and mother by having a career, but her friend could only shake it off by killing herself. Has that ever happened to anyone else? You've related to a lyric really, really passionately, and then it turns out to be wrong? This seems to happen to me quite a lot...maybe I should get my ears checked... Oh Bob, what you said about "It's cloud illusions I recall" connecting to "I've spent my whole life in clouds at icy altitudes" really made my heart jolt! I LOVE the way she does that, she connects her later songs to her earlier ones, like the Cactus Tree theme. It makes you realise that however much she changes her style and her perceptions about life, this is still a continuous narrative, still the same woman, whose "life is for learning". Love Kate C - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Stay in touch better and keep protected online with MSNs NEW all-in-one Premium Services. Find out more here. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:32:35 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira **Oh Bob, what you said about "It's cloud illusions I recall" connecting to "I've spent my whole life in clouds at icy altitudes" really made my heart jolt! ** Hey, great! Nice to know that I've still got it in me to do that! :~) In regards to the backup vocals, I've never heard anything other than just the syllabic chant, no specific lyrics. I think it would be distracting, and the song certainly has enough words anyway! (Joni herself opined while singing it in New Orleans in 1995, "This song has a lot of words!") The only thing I can compare your fertility/fultility to is in "In France They Kiss On Main Street", I thought "Lead-Foot Melvin" was "Liquid Melvin", and that he got that nickname by being able to seep into any car and hotwire it, like liquid seeping through a crack. And now I've sung liquid so many times I STILL sing 'liquid' instead of 'lead-foot'. And regarding Joni tying lyrics together from albums that are years apart, I always found it interesting that she mentions my birthyear 1957 in 2 songs, Raised On Robbery & Come In From The Cold. And of course the Betsy who wants her to find a charity in SfS who is Blue in Moon At The Window. It makes her albums read like journal entries almost at times, which helps us to personalize them as well I would think. Bob NP: Sting & Gil Evans, "Synchronicity" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:28:38 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: backup vocals sfs to me, it's always sounded like "little, little, only a little little..." *W* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:09:01 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Furry Em wrote: > "WWJD"? What Would Joni Do? ; ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:42:40 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Furry Lori Fye wrote: > Jerry answered my query: > > > I think Joni's song tells us why. He was used to people bringing him booze > > and cigarettes to get him to talk and play about the old days. He loved the > > bribes. He lived in poverty all his life and thought he deserved > > compensation of some kind. > > Okay, I'll buy that. But I can't imagine that Joni wouldn't share a smoke with > him! : ) Since she says "we're only welcome for our drink and smoke," I have to wonder if she was refering to pot. She is very succinct with her words. "Smokes" is slang for cigarettes; "smoke" is slang for weed. Maybe she was just rhyming with "joke", though she says it earlier, too, when she could have said "smokes"; "You bring him smoke and drink and he'll play for you" And of course, reefer was popular amongst the jazz and blues artists of the "heyday". Part of the reason it was made illegal. RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 00:45:10 +0300 From: "G'n H" Subject: Song for Sharon Oh, I just get so agitaded when talking about SFS, the song that makes me to fall in tears every time I listen to it. How great it is to see that so many of you feel the same way and see the extreme beauty of this chiming pearl and of the whole Hejira (and of the whole Joni Mitchell). What a 8:38-"flash" about a life story that keeps on moving in searching love and makeing a pure poetry when discribing everything she sees / has seen. And leaving it all to the words of the 2nd verse of Psalm 23 (or that's how I've always understood the line "I'll walk green pastures by and by"). I can't raise any specific, prefered, line of the song, becouse it's full of incredibly beautiful things and thoughts that it gives me but that I'm not able to verbalize. But I love the "When we were kids in Maidstone, Sharon I went to every wedding in that little town To see the TEARS and the KISSES ", then the following verse "Mama's nylons underneath my cowgirl jeans He showed me first you get the KISSES And then you get the TEARS", in this order. What could be more true in love affairs... I think that song is one of the indications of Joni's genius. G'n H _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 23:39:57 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Re: Folk Music... A. Millington millsac@bigpond.com wrote: > There I was at the in-laws...... > and saw their old record collection and right at the back of the vinyl records > was....... > this box collection of 4 records called ELECTRIC MUSE ...the story of Folk > into Rock (1975?) The compiler hoped there would be a further >collection he could do for Island or Transatlantic?...so was there a part 2? and Em emzdogz@yahoo.com wrote: >Hi, just looked and Amazon.com has this available: >http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000086XN.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg >doesn't give any details though, as to who's on it, etc. Would love to >know! :) Here's a page with track listing on the original 1975 Island/ Transatlantic release http://www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~zierke/folk/records/electricmuse.html which, along with Fairport Convention's version of Chelsea Morning, also, I see, included many of my personal favourites at the time, including Bert Jansch (Blackwaterside), Jackson C. Frank (Blues Run the Game), Traffic (John Barleycorn), Davey Graham (Angi), Jack Elliott (Pretty Boy Floyd), John and Beverley Martyn (John the Baptist)....and on and on. In 1996 the UK label Castle Communications/Essential issued an up-dated 3-CD box set entitled 'New Electric Muse: The Story of Folk into Rock' ESB-CD 416 - see track listing & sleeve notes at http://www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~zierke/folk/records/newelectricmuse.html - - much the same track listing as the original vinyls but without FC's Chelsea Morning, but with some additions - including, I see, Sandy Denny's version of 'Bruton Town' (which was the first song I saw her perform live, doing a floor spot in a small cellar club in Greek Street - it was love at first sight!! and in 1997 - New Electric Muse II - The Continuing Story of Folk Into Rock Various Artists (Castle Communication ESB CD 517 [3 CD, UK, 1997]) see track listing & sleeve notes at http://www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~zierke/folk/records/newelectricmuse2.html >some of the tunes on this collection....did they influence Joni at all? Not sure what she would have heard in Saskatoon but Joni certainly influenced many of these artists in 'their' future recordings. From what I remember and what I've since read on the jmdl and elsewhere, Transatlantic and other UK labels were sent a demo tape of Joni's songs (before the UK release of STAS) and groups like Fairport were completely knocked out by her songs - Irish band The Johnstons (with Mick Maloney and Paul Brady) also recorded songs from this demo - found this in an interview with Mick Maloney in Dirty Linen see http://www.dirtynelson.com/linen/feature/48mick.html >Myself and Sean Corcoran used to go to the Irish Folklore >Commission in Stephen's Green and we used to research >songs in there.... We'd take songs from anywhere." The change >came later, when the corporate gurus at Transatlantic Records >saw a new potential in the group. "Because we were a four-part >harmony group," Moloney explains, "And the Seekers had just >disbanded, they felt that our road to fame and fortune would be >through contemporary material." The company loaded them >down with tapes of hundreds of songs every week. At one point >they came across a few nice numbers by someone they'd never >heard of. It was Joni Mitchell. "We recorded `Both Sides Now,' >and `The Urge for Going,' and we recorded a lot of Leonard Cohen >songs, a lot of Gordon Lightfoot songs." best to all PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 23:45:13 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: RE: Joni's music & lovemaking LOL! No I suppose 'Sex Kills' just doesn't go down well in that situation either! I would really like to hear 'Nothing Can Be Done' in a club, though. Apparently it was a minor hit in the clubs in the early 90's (according to Joni but I can't imagine where!) Much Joni Jamie Zoob Wally Kairuz wrote: hit it too soon. i was going too write that i can't imagine myself in a room full of bears and all of a sudden you hear little green or the sire of sorrow or something like that. *W* - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 21:51:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum --- tantra_apso wrote: > Parent /child issues usually > last a lifetime. Even when one is able to do 'the > work' and deal with it, it > is still an issue and still has it's affect. Tho if > one does do the work, you > can live well despite it. In this case, I mean that > if Joni had come to terms > with this, she could have that relationship with > another adult and not let the > parent/child issue interfere to the extent it ruins > what she has. [...] > Today, with therapy and 'issue awareness' it seems > people have come to the > erroneous conclusion that a time in therapy or > dealing with 'issues' in some > way, consigns the issues and their affects to the > dustbin. Not so. All it does > is enable one to live more effectively WITH the > issues. It does not get rid of > them. It gives one more voices, more choices. [...] Issues that come about > in young childhood are never vanquished and in times > of stress of just out of > the blue can cause chaos no matter one's age. Just > paying for fuel, to be > confronted by a person who thru no fault of their > own, just reminds you of an > abuser, subconsiously, can drastically alter > behaviour and fuck up the day! > Any number of situations, words used, mannerisms, > events, can have resonance > with past events and cause one to relive those > negative events over and over, > aware or not. It is the awareness, or learning to be > aware, that can make all > the difference and whilst it would not stop such > regressions, or flashbacks, > it can lessen their impact. Colin, this really hit home with me, as I'm sure it does for many. It is truly amazing how strong the bonds are between parents and children. Even in cases where there is no abuse, there may be one parent (or maybe both) who is a very strong figure that the child looks up to and fears in a way. It may be that the person has such a strong personality and seems to be *right* and *perfect* in every way, and doesn't demonstrate a lot of, or any, flexibility, and a child who is sensitive may constantly be trying to live up to that parent's expectations. I, for one, remember being a child who never wanted to make any mistakes. Everything I did had to be well done - perfect, if at all possible. I suspect Myrtle was, and is, that sort of parent - someone with very strong values and a strong sense of what is right and wrong, who simply can't see the possibility that there may be other ways of doing things that are equally valid. The very fact that Joni is still dealing with her mother's reaction to her "living in sin" when she's in her 50s in "Face Lift" makes this pretty clear: I shouldn't have come She made me pay For gleaming with Donald down her street She put blame on him And shame on me and: ...after all, she introduced us Oh, but she regrets that now Shacked up downtown Making love without a license Same old sacred cow She said, "Did you come home to disgrace us?" I said, "Why is this joy not allowed? For God's sake, I'm middle-aged, Mama Earlier, in "Let the wind carry me", she is very clear about how her mother is - a woman with a very rigid view of what is right or wrong. Nothing the daughter does pleases Mama, and everything can be solved by cleaning: Papa's faith is in people Mama she's always cleaning Papa brought home the sugar Mama taught me the deeper meaning ... She don't like my kick pleat skirt She don't like my eyelids painted green She don't like me staying up late In my high-heeled shoes Living for that rock 'n' roll dancing scene ... Mama thinks she spoilt me Papa knows somehow he set me free Mama thinks she spoilt me rotten She blames herself But papa he blesses me It's a rough road to travel Mama let go now It's always called for me I do hope Joni has a good therapist! ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 22:17:08 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum Catherine writes: << I, for one, remember being a child who never wanted to make any mistakes. >> Holy Jesus, Catherine! What happened? Catherine also says: << Earlier, in "Let the wind carry me", she is very clear about how her mother is - a woman >> This is interesting insight, Catherine. I never thought of the lyrics that way before. Thanks for sharing that! Catherine ends with: << I do hope Joni has a good therapist! >> *A* good therapist? Honey, the woman needs a psychiatric pit crew on call 24/7. But hey! Who am I to judge. XO, - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 23:53:02 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Hejira, now Joni & her Mum > Hard to imagine an adult woman in her 50's who still has such serious issues with her Mom.< This always takes me a step further to wonder about the mom & what her issues were with her paretns... At least that is how I came to terms with understanding my parents more... Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #133 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)