From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #132 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, May 11 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 132 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Hejira [=?iso-8859-1?q?Tamsin=20Lucas?= ] Re: Hejira [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Hejira [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Hejira ["hell" ] Re: Hejira [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Hejira [Em ] Re: Happy Mothers Day (JC because Joni's a Mom!) ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: Hejira [Mike Friedman ] Re: Hejira [Mike Friedman ] Re: Hejira [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Hejira [Em ] Re: Hejira [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Fwd: Re: lovemaking music, not ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Hejira ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Song for Sharon/Kate [Em ] Re: Hejira [Em ] Re: Hejira [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20pro=20choice,=20quaker=20football=20--=A0n j?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?c?= [Smu] Re: Song for Sharon/Kate [AsharaJM@aol.com] Offer: Perpetual Joni Covers Train: Volumes 11-20 of JM Covers [Doug ] Re: lovemaking music, not [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] The best Joni cover... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] songs about women and/or men [Bruce Kimerer ] Re: Hejira ["anon anon" ] Re: Fwd: Re: lovemaking music, not [=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= ] Song for Sharon ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: is it just ME???? [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: is it just ME???? [Em ] Re: Hejira ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: is it just ME???? [Em ] THOSL ["tantra_apso" ] Re: Hejira ["tantra-apso" ] Re: Hejira ["tantra-apso" ] Re: Joni's music & lovemaking [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: Hejira [Em ] Re: Hejira ["tantra-apso" ] Re: Joni's music & lovemaking ["tantra-apso" ] Re: is it just ME???? [Rick ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:49:06 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Tamsin=20Lucas?= Subject: Re: Hejira Very much with you both on the SfS front. The line that blows me away every time is: "Love's a repetitious danger You'd think I'd be accustomed to Well I do accept the changes At least better than I used to do" It's the little pause after "changes" that makes me smile, wryly. Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 14:20:49 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira "A woman I knew just drowned herself, the well was deep and muddy. She was just shaking off futility...or punishing somebody". Then again, there's the image of her looking at the wedding dress, the wax rolling down like tears, the $18 bucks going up in smoke.... No one else writes with the kind of consistent high quality that's common to the entire Hejira album. What a blessing to have had it as a traveling companion all these years. Bob NP: Wayne, "This Flight Tonight" - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 06:59:40 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira Bob quoted these lines from Song for Sharon "A woman I knew just drowned herself, the well was deep and muddy. She was just shaking off futility...or punishing somebody". This reminds me of a conversation I was having with three colleagues, a couple of years ago. One of our number, Ruth, was not familiar with Joni, and Patrick and I were enthusing about her, and we discovered that we both loved Hejira as the pinnacle of Joni's art. Patrick singled those same lines out to illustrate her forensic brilliance. Less than a year later, Patrick was dead, by his own hand. I still shudder a bit when I remember that conversation, and wonder at the ghastly irony of it. Azeem in London NP: Martha & the Vandellas - Dancing in the Street ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 07:24:14 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira **Less than a year later, Patrick was dead, by his own hand. I still shudder a bit when I remember that conversation, and wonder at the ghastly irony of it. Yes, that's eerie to be sure, and I'm sorry it happened. But to take that Joni lyric a step further..."the well was deep and muddy". Now, you can certainly take that literally that the woman drowned herself in a well, but you can also interpret it as meaning that the "well" of her life was a deep dark quagmire from which she felt no escape other than suicide was possible. Even on the surface it's a great lyric, but when you start to peel layers...oh, my. Bob NP: Liane Carroll, "Parking Lot" (we typically call it Big Yellow Taxi) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 00:04:12 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Hejira Bob wrote: > But to take that Joni lyric a step further..."the well was deep and muddy". > Now, you can certainly take that literally that the woman drowned herself in a > well, but you can also interpret it as meaning that the "well" of her life was > a deep dark quagmire from which she felt no escape other than suicide was > possible. Even on the surface it's a great lyric, but when you start to peel > layers...oh, my. Here's a classic example of why I love this list - I'd never even thought of the "well" in that context before. It was always a literal thing to me, but it does make a lot of sense. I should have known better from the queen of "duality" I guess, especially since SFS is one of my favourite songs. But there's just so much depth to this album - in every song - that maybe I just haven't lived long enough to decipher it all yet! Joni's song-writing career may well be over, but personally, the exploration of what she has written is far from over! Hell - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a WHOLE NEW EXPERIENCE! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 08:23:21 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira In a message dated 5/10/04 7:27:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > But to take that Joni lyric a step further..."the well was deep and muddy". > > Now, you can certainly take that literally that the woman drowned herself in > a > well, but you can also interpret it as meaning that the "well" of her life > was > a deep dark quagmire from which she felt no escape other than suicide was > possible. Even on the surface it's a great lyric, but when you start to peel > > layers...oh, my. > > That is how I've always interpreted this line....for when I first heard these lyrics, it immediately brought me back to the teachings of the I-Ching...there is a hexagram called "The Well". It's symbolic imagery being the waters of life. One of the first lines of this hexagram. One does not drink the mud of the well. no animals come to an old well. It's interpretation... If a man wanders around in swampy lowlands, his life is submerged in mud. Such a man loses all significance for mankind. He throws himself away and is no longer sought out by others. In the end no one troubles about him anymore. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 05:44:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Hejira - --- RoseMJoy@aol.com wrote: > If a man wanders around in swampy lowlands, his life is submerged in > mud. > Such a man loses all significance for mankind. He throws himself away > and is no > longer sought out by others. In the end no one troubles about him anymore. I bet that Jesus dude would hang out w/him. Mud or no mud. Em ===== ........... "We boogied in the kitchen, we boogied in the hall I got some on my finger and I wiped it on the wall.." Chuck Berry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:43:20 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: Happy Mothers Day (JC because Joni's a Mom!) Oh Paz!!! That was so sweet to say and even sweeter to do for your Mom. Conch chowder sounds very tasty!!! Here is email number 651! Paz wrote: To all of the mothers on the list (including Smurph and Wally) May you have a blessed day and much happiness. I am cooking lobsters and shrimp for our mommy and Romi is making us conch chowder. Still catching up on the list and I am now only about 650 behind. Have a lovely day all. Love Paz _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar  get it now! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:41:10 +0000 From: "Kate Cox" Subject: Song for Sharon Em wrote:->a couple more thoughts, >the arrangement imparts quite an "insistent" quality. Not quite the >stocking wearing lady. (to me) >Almost a "Riders on the Storm" groove, and it gives me that kind of >groovy-jiggy feeling. But then I think of the (at least) topmost layer >of subject matter, which is loosely her ruminations on marriage, the >ceremony, and the lack of it. The "road not taken" kind of thing. >Does she turn tough guy here in this song?? >I feel a pent up strength approaching violence, which is refreshing. >I feel almost taken by the collar and forced "up against the wall", to >listen, dammit. >She behaves, but she's ramming something home. >I do love the weird "jone-ette" harpy-chorus thing this tune has going >on, too. Which is there alot in "Court and Spark". >This song rips my face off, and it makes me happy. >Kinda like getting a new tattoo, raw and sticky. >Em Ohhh, Song for Sharon. I was just listening to it this morning, I don't think I've ever listened to it without crying. It's now almost a year since I first heard it and it changed my life irrevocably. Em, you described it so well... >This song rips my face off, and it makes me happy. >Kinda like getting a new tattoo, raw and sticky.Doesn't it just tear the skin off you and expose all your trembling nerves? You are so right that it forces you to listen, it is insistent. I was thinking this morning that, perhaps to someone who can't feel anything from Joni, that riff as it sidles in might sound quite innocuous, calm, free of passion... to me, it is the most powerful and direct riff, so strongly declarative. The whole song is a declaration of freedom. "Sharon, I LEFT my man". Yet at the same time it is a wistful, aching prayer to be freed from her conflict: "You still have your music, and I've still got my eyes on the land in the sky. You sing for your friends and your family, I'll walk green pastures by and by". Have you seen the DVD documentary, "Woman of Heart and Mind"? In it she explains why she didn't marry Graham Nash: she remembered how her grandmother had been a frustrated musician, forced to give up her dreams for marriage, and she kicked in the door of the barn. I think that in her early albums, Joni was forever running away from the trap of that barn door... she knew that to express herself, to understand herself, to have full creative freedom, she couldn't allow herself to be "bound and tied to someone". You can almost trace the story through her songs, watch as she comes so close to belonging with somebody and then runs for the roads again. It begins on Song to a Seagull - "Her heart is full and hollow, like a cactus tree, being free" - and seems to end on Hejira: "I pulled into the Cactus Tree Motel, to shower off the dust, and I slept on the strange pillows of my wanderlust". You asked if she turns tough guy. I think she is certainly gentle with Sharon: "Sharon, you've got a husband, and a family, and a farm". She understands why Sharon made the opposite decision from hers: "The ceremony of the bells and lace still veils this reckless fool here". It is herself she is tough on, as always: "I came out to the Big Apple here to face the dream's malfunction" ... "The power of reason and the flowers of deep feelings seem to serve me only to deceive me". Oh, that pent up strength close to violence that you felt... I feel that too. Time is a pressure on Joni in Hejira; she knows she must resolve her conflict soon. On The Hissing of Summer Lawns she has already "laid down golden in time and woke up vanishing"... now she has "a diamond snake around her arm" and she is a "chicken scratching for my mortality". She seems to be veering towards desperation as she realises that only in true solitude can she experience herself fully, but only in love can she feel whole: "You know I'm so glad to be on my own... but somehow the slightest touch of a stranger can set up trembling in my bones". But on the whole, I think it is solitude she wants most strongly; her view of love seems to be a trap and a battlefield: "A defector from the petty wars, until love sucks me back that way". Am I analysing this too much?! It's just that I think about Joni all the time and no-one around me is willing to entertain my theories... they just think she is an unbearable screeching moaner. I feel so alone!!!!! Love Kate C - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Stay in touch better and keep protected online with MSNs NEW all-in-one Premium Services. Find out more here. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:44:44 -0700 From: Mike Friedman Subject: Re: Hejira Every time I listen to it (which is often) I hear something new......it's my favorite album by anyone.... On May 8, 2004, at 10:46 AM, Em wrote: > OK I gotta fess up. Am just listening to this whole album(cd) for the > first time. I mean I'd heard "Coyote" and maybe more, in the past, but > am just now really letting it in. > Why do I like "Song For Sharon" so much?... > I had to laugh out loud and shake my head at the line: > > "Well, there's a wide wide world of noble causes > And lovely landscapes to discover > But all I really want right now > Is...find another lover" > > What gorgeous honesty. Boy does she ever hammer that last line home. > The rest is pretty cool too, although the jazz spices are still strange > to me, and I tend to reject them for want of some good old sugar and > butter and bacon and salt. > Forgive me..but this *is* good.... > OK so its not just "spices", it's more basic componentry, not just > dressing. > I dunno. > thx for listening > :) > Em > ps I considered putting "NJC" in the subject, cuz its really not about > Joni so much but about my impressions of Joni..but then I thought maybe > some of the Joni-only folks wouldn't mind listening too, hope its ok. > > ===== > ........... > "thats just the scale; the fish come later". > ;) > Norman Blake > > ==================================================== "I'm porous with travel fever, but you know I'm so glad to be on my own. Still somehow the slightest touch of a stranger can set up trembling in my bones. I know, no one's gonna show me everything, we all come and go alone. Each so deep and superficial, between the forceps and the stone." - --Joni Mitchell, "Hejira", 1976 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:54:34 -0700 From: Mike Friedman Subject: Re: Hejira Something came to mind after I wrote my first short email. I think Amelia is my favorite song on the album. It's so haunting and quiet and wonderful. A few years ago when I saw JM live for the first time (UCLA stop of the tour with Dylan and Morrison) my ex and I took his friend Ben from LA who is a (quite gifted I think) songwriter. After she played "Amelia" he leaned over to me and just said "that's a really amazing song." I bought him the album the next day when we were out walking in Santa Monica. "Maybe I've never really loved I guess that is the truth. I've spent my whole life in clouds At icy altitudes." Ouch. talk about the painful truth about oneself. On May 8, 2004, at 10:46 AM, Em wrote: > OK I gotta fess up. Am just listening to this whole album(cd) for the > first time. I mean I'd heard "Coyote" and maybe more, in the past, but > am just now really letting it in. > Why do I like "Song For Sharon" so much?... > I had to laugh out loud and shake my head at the line: > > "Well, there's a wide wide world of noble causes > And lovely landscapes to discover > But all I really want right now > Is...find another lover" > > What gorgeous honesty. Boy does she ever hammer that last line home. > The rest is pretty cool too, although the jazz spices are still strange > to me, and I tend to reject them for want of some good old sugar and > butter and bacon and salt. > Forgive me..but this *is* good.... > OK so its not just "spices", it's more basic componentry, not just > dressing. > I dunno. > thx for listening > :) > Em > ps I considered putting "NJC" in the subject, cuz its really not about > Joni so much but about my impressions of Joni..but then I thought maybe > some of the Joni-only folks wouldn't mind listening too, hope its ok. > > ===== > ........... > "thats just the scale; the fish come later". > ;) > Norman Blake > > ==================================================== "See, the human mind is like a...pinata. Break it open, and there's a lot of surprises inside. Once you get the pinata perspective, you see that losing your mind can be a peak experience." - --Trudy (Lily Tomlin) from "The Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe" Mike Friedman San Francisco, CA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:18:28 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira "Maybe I've never really loved I guess that is the truth. I've spent my whole life in clouds At icy altitudes." A painful admission, to be sure - really just an update of this one: "I've looked at love from both sides now From give and take, and still somehow It's love's illusions I recall I really don't know love at all" And the offhand reference to 'clouds' is probably not just a coincidence either. Amelia usually places at the top of the JMDL song poll, it's currently #2, followed by...SfS! Bob NP: Becker & Fagen, "If It Rains" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:37:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Hejira - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > Amelia usually places at the top of the > JMDL song poll, it's currently #2, followed by...SfS! Bob you're kidding! so this song that I latched onto like a hungry calf onto a teat is loved by EVERYONE???? I think one thing is that JM so often sings about her "men".. that the songs she sings to her women friends, or even about women (LOTC) seem really strong. (to me anyway) Interesting. Em ===== ........... "We boogied in the kitchen, we boogied in the hall I got some on my finger and I wiped it on the wall.." Chuck Berry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:47:34 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira **the songs she sings to her women friends, or even about women (LOTC) seem really strong. An interesting observation, Em...the songs about women (Magdalene Laundries, Edith & The Kingpin, Shades of Scarlett, etc) are certainly very strong, but I don't know that they're any stronger than her pseudo-autobiographical ones or her songs to/about men. So, convince me! :~) Bob NP: Becker/Fagen, "I Can't Function" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:49:50 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Fwd: Re: lovemaking music, not I never thought about joni's music that way but I can see its true! Santana is great lovemaking music especially one of his songs that I am forgetting the name of now, an instrumental... As far as joni as a cheese, my vote is for whatever incredible dutch cheese uncle john brings to the fest ! Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:58:13 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Hejira Bob>Hejira is every bit as confessional as Blue, perhaps even more so. Musically, it's so much looser and freer that you don't pick up on the intense emotions as you would on Blue, or even as in the verse you've quoted, you can actually laugh about it. And the more you listen, the deeper and more profound it gets.< So true (I'm thinking of the songs right now, not the albums)... Blue is so still, Hejira so forward moving (or whatever is the opposite to still), Blue is more about a person in relation to one another, Hejira is more about a person in relation to the entire universe... Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 12:02:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Song for Sharon/Kate Kate what a beautiful and heartfelt post! I can truly feel your passion on this. Makes me want to just sit down and have some tea w/you and discuss the heck out of it. And I can tell if you can discuss the song this way, you probably would be real interesting to converse with about a bunch of stuff. No I have not seen "Woman of Heart and Mind" but I think I'm going to have to "pop" for it soon. I would love to see it. Thanks for your post Kate. I loved reading it and I'm sure I will read it again when I get home from work and can listen to the song again too. Just strange that out of all these zillions of Joni songs, that that ONE SONG that I never even heard of til yesterday is such a magnet for so many people. I'm liking this alot. So, a question for all..among the folks who play and sing around here..is that tune widely "covered"???? :) Em - --- Kate Cox wrote: > Ohhh, Song for Sharon. I was just listening to it this morning, I > don't > think I've ever listened to it without crying. It's now almost a year > since I first heard it and it changed my life irrevocably. Em, you > described it so well... >This song rips my face off, and it makes me > happy. > >Kinda like getting a new tattoo, raw and sticky.Doesn't it just tear > the > skin off you and expose all your trembling nerves? You are so right > that > it forces you to listen, it is insistent. I was thinking this morning > that, perhaps to someone who can't feel anything from Joni, that riff > as > it sidles in might sound quite innocuous, calm, free of passion... to > me, > it is the most powerful and direct riff, so strongly declarative. The > whole song is a declaration of freedom. "Sharon, I LEFT my man". Yet > at > the same time it is a wistful, aching prayer to be freed from her > conflict: "You still have your music, and I've still got my eyes on > the > land in the sky. You sing for your friends and your family, I'll walk > green pastures by and by". Have you seen the DVD documentary, "Woman > of > Heart and Mind"? In it she explains why she didn't marry Graham Nash: > she > remembered how her grandmother had been a frustrated musician, forced > to > give up her dreams for marriage, and she kicked in the door of the > barn. > I think that in her early albums, Joni was forever running away from > the > trap of that barn door... she knew that to express herself, to > understand > herself, to have full creative freedom, she couldn't allow herself to > be > "bound and tied to someone". You can almost trace the story through > her > songs, watch as she comes so close to belonging with somebody and > then > runs for the roads again. It begins on Song to a Seagull - "Her heart > is > full and hollow, like a cactus tree, being free" - and seems to end > on > Hejira: "I pulled into the Cactus Tree Motel, to shower off the dust, > and > I slept on the strange pillows of my wanderlust". You asked if she > turns > tough guy. I think she is certainly gentle with Sharon: "Sharon, > you've > got a husband, and a family, and a farm". She understands why Sharon > made > the opposite decision from hers: "The ceremony of the bells and lace > still veils this reckless fool here". It is herself she is tough on, > as > always: "I came out to the Big Apple here to face the dream's > malfunction" ... "The power of reason and the flowers of deep > feelings > seem to serve me only to deceive me". Oh, that pent up strength > close to > violence that you felt... I feel that too. Time is a pressure on Joni > in > Hejira; she knows she must resolve her conflict soon. On The Hissing > of > Summer Lawns she has already "laid down golden in time and woke up > vanishing"... now she has "a diamond snake around her arm" and she is > a > "chicken scratching for my mortality". She seems to be veering > towards > desperation as she realises that only in true solitude can she > experience > herself fully, but only in love can she feel whole: "You know I'm so > glad > to be on my own... but somehow the slightest touch of a stranger can > set > up trembling in my bones". But on the whole, I think it is solitude > she wants most strongly; her view of love seems to be a trap and a > battlefield: "A defector from the petty wars, until love sucks me > back > that way". Am I analysing this too much?! It's just that I think > about > Joni all the time and no-one around me is willing to entertain my > theories... they just think she is an unbearable screeching moaner. I > feel so alone!!!!! Love Kate C ===== ........... "We boogied in the kitchen, we boogied in the hall I got some on my finger and I wiped it on the wall.." Chuck Berry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 12:20:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Hejira - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > An interesting observation, Em...the songs about women > (Magdalene Laundries, Edith & The Kingpin, Shades of Scarlett, > etc) are certainly very strong, but I don't know that they're > any stronger than her pseudo-autobiographical ones or her > songs to/about men. > > So, convince me! :~) Hi Bob, only problem is...umm, it might not be true! From my perspective at this time, the perspective of a very incomplete and fairly neophyte JM listener ('cept for STAS and LOTC - have listened to those alot), it seems kind of true. That at this moment in time among the zillions of songs about her guys...those 3 I mentioned seem so very excellent. Not sure why, and that may change. Anyway I have never heard those 3 songs you refer to! :) So I'm not ready to make any real strong assertions at this time. But that could change. And you know I can't shut up! lol, so you'll know about it. Em ps even like "Marcie" horribly (to me) sad but very strong... it slays me. So I don't really want to listen to it. ===== ........... "We boogied in the kitchen, we boogied in the hall I got some on my finger and I wiped it on the wall.." Chuck Berry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:40:15 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira **Hi Bob, only problem is...umm, it might not be true! LOL! OK, so for the time being I'll remain unconvinced. Meanwhile, back to SfS covers...as you can probably guess it has NOT been widely covered. Two instrumentals (one by our own David Lahm) and a great vocal cover by The Uptown Trio. My guess is that the song is so specific and autobiographical that while other artists really dig it they don't feel comfortable doing it. When I saw Joni in Atlanta in '98, she performed SfS...it was the ONLY time she did it on that tour, I couldn't believe it! Bob NP: Steely Dan, "Sail The Waterway" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:31:46 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20pro=20choice,=20quaker=20football=20--=A0n j?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?c?= Maggie writes: << What were they called...the "Fighting Quakers!" They never saw that as ironic, either. Go figure. >> Yes, McNally. That seems so much more ironic than say, the "Fighting Irish!" XO, - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:25:43 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Song for Sharon/Kate Em wrote: <> Oh Em, I have a MUCH better idea! Come to Jonifest and WIN "Woman of Heart and Mind" from the RAFFLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Right, Maggie???? :-) Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:38:35 -0400 From: Doug Subject: Offer: Perpetual Joni Covers Train: Volumes 11-20 of JM Covers With thanks to Eric, I have Volume 11 to 20 to pass on to the next lucky person. I have added to the package the new mystery Joni recording which I call: Joni Mitchell - Germany? 1968 1) Marcie 2) Nathan La Franeer 3) Dr. Junk Intro 4) Dr. Junk The Dentist Man 5) Roses Blue 6) Circle Game/Little Green 7) I Don't Know Where I Stand 8) Go Tell The Drummer Man 9) Michael From Mountains First to send me an address and promise to *promptly* re-offer gets it. Doug ps If anyone knows any details about this recording, please let us know. Eric's original post: In order to enable latecomers to the list or new traders have a chance of listening to Bob Muller's incredible compilation of covers of Joni's songs - some 1500 in all - this begins the launch of the Perpetual Joni Covers Trains. For those not familiar with trading trains, here is how they work. When the disks come to you, you make copies of as much of the contents as you want, and then you post back to this list offering to pass the disks along to the next person. You do not keep the originals -- you keep the copies you made for yourself. On most trains, the convention is that you make the copies and send the masters along within two days. For these trains, you must agree to turn them around within one week. Sometimes the offer goes unclaimed. Bob and I expect that to happen from time to time. So, by participating, you agree to just hang on to the disks and then make another offer a month or so later (or to respond if somebody posts a grovel looking for them). In theory, if everybody takes good care of the disks, wrapping them well, not letting them get scratched, etc. and passes them along, these covers will run on the tracks for years. Bob copied 50+ disks for me to launch this and I have copied them so there is a LOT of time sunk into offering these up. Nobody is going to monitor the progress of these trains so if you participate and then lose the disks or fail to reoffer them, you will have kept others from enjoying them. When you post an offer, please include these "rules". One final note, I know a few folks like to compress these into MP3s. If you want to, go ahead but please do not send MP3s to the next person - MP3s permanently delete some of the "data" and sound quality degrades so please pass the masters along. So, anybody who would like to receive volumes 11-20, please send me: 1. Your mailing address and 2. Your promise to reoffer, etc. If you want to know what is on the disks, please see this link: http://www.jmdl.com/covers/byvolume.cfm . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:39:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: lovemaking music, not I protest! I think almost all of HOSL is...um...inspiring. You have to run and stop the CD before Shadows and Light comes on though because that can kill a mood. lol. I agree, there aren't many that lend themselves to makin' love, but here's my top ten : Court and Spark Help Me Edith and the Kingpin Shades of Scarlett... Hissing of Summer Lawns Harry's House Off Night Back Street Strange Boy Hejira Okay that's only 9. I tried. I recommend Best of Laura Nyro - Disc 2. Jenny Kate Bennett wrote: I never thought about joni's music that way but I can see its true! Santana is great lovemaking music especially one of his songs that I am forgetting the name of now, an instrumental... As far as joni as a cheese, my vote is for whatever incredible dutch cheese uncle john brings to the fest ! Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:42:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Joni Tidbit - Frasier Interesting piece of trivia I learned this week - Joni's 'Twisted' was used as the theme song for Frasier's pilot episode. Once the show was picked up, they had to find another tune b/c they couldn't afford 'Twisted'. jenny Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:44:19 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: lovemaking music, not **You have to run and stop the CD before Shadows and Light Way to go Eric! I can't even make it to the Jungle Line. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:46:06 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: The best Joni cover... Is FREE! Here's one that's more than a 'little bit corny". I'll bet someone had to write the scat part out for her on music paper, whaddya think? http://www.abjconstruction.net/hoop.html Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 18:37:16 -0400 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: songs about women and/or men It seems to me that JM was equally skilled in writing about women and men. Many times she deals with both perspectives in the same song. And both are treated with candor and an unflinching dedication to honesty rather than an expected/fashionable PC POV. HOSL is full of complicated relationships. Harry's House seems now to me to be, poignantly, about Harry. I remember when I first knew and loved the song I felt, in accordance with the times, that it was about a woman who had been made an object by an ambitious, corporate-success-hungry husband -- "nothings's any good" because he has essentially abandoned her, left to choose wallpaper instead of allowing her to be self-actuated. Now I hear it as something very different -- about a woman who got who she wanted but is still not satisfied, while her husband does what he needs to do to provide her with what she wants. JM provides the knowing kicker: "Shining as she reeled him in." Harry is still smitten (Centerpiece) by a woman who keeps reeling him in by his fond memories and her complaints. Nothing's any good. Joni has always treated men and women with the same no-bullshit eye. Bruce PS. My only complaint is when JM opts for generalizations rather than specifics. Her very best work is always like a short story, not a statement on an issue or a re-imagining of another text. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 18:37:00 -0400 From: "anon anon" Subject: Re: Hejira >No one else writes with the kind of consistent high quality that's common >to >the entire Hejira album. What a blessing to have had it as a traveling >companion all these years. > >Bob > >NP: Wayne, "This Flight Tonight" > > > > There are so many quotable lines from Hejira...Even from the title song alone _________________________________________________________________ Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! http://youroffers.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 23:37:59 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: lovemaking music, not Kate Bennett wrote:I never thought about joni's music that way but I can see its true! Santana is great lovemaking music especially one of his songs that I am forgetting the name of now, an instrumental... As far as joni as a cheese, my vote is for whatever incredible dutch cheese uncle john brings to the fest ! Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide thought Joni's 'Blue' had a little Danish flavour to it! ;) Jamie Zoob - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:21:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: is it just ME???? what the HALE is that thing sticking out of the "pocket of the asphalt" in the Hejira cover photo????? I'm looking, and I'm like noooo, Em, shut uppp....what the heck IS that??? Is it like "battery-powered" you think? I mean I know my vision sucks anymore, but really.... also why is her hed so far over to the left? (her right) I'm just shaking my head, cuz I'm sure I'm just nuts. I miss the days when album covers were BIG! so it was easier to scrutinize them. ;) Em ===== ........... "We boogied in the kitchen, we boogied in the hall I got some on my finger and I wiped it on the wall.." Chuck Berry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:25:13 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Song for Sharon Kate c >she remembered how her grandmother had been a frustrated musician, forced to give up her dreams for marriage, and she kicked in the door of the barn. I think that in her early albums, Joni was forever running away from the trap of that barn door... she knew that to express herself, to understand herself, to have full creative freedom, she couldn't allow herself to be "bound and tied to someone". You can almost trace the story through her songs, watch as she comes so close to belonging with somebody and then runs for the roads again. It begins on Song to a Seagull - "Her heart is full and hollow, like a cactus tree, being free" - and seems to end on Hejira: "I pulled into the Cactus Tree Motel, to shower off the dust, and I slept on the strange pillows of my wanderlust"...She seems to be veering towards desperation as she realises that only in true solitude can she experience herself fully, but only in love can she feel whole: "You know I'm so glad to be on my own... but somehow the slightest touch of a stranger can set up trembling in my bones". But on the whole, I think it is solitude she wants most strongly; her view of love seems to be a trap and a battlefield: "A defector from the petty wars, until love sucks me back that way". Am I analysing this too much?!>Love Kate C No you are absolutely not analyzing this too much! What you said is brilliant! And, this hits deep for me as it has always been my struggle... And I suspect many other people's as well... Joni, when she goes deep to write about herself, well she ends up writing about us all... There is always the push pull between rejection & engulfment that is part of any relationship... The couple vs the individual, compromise vs standing up for what you need, & on & on... But it is magnified when someone is an artist or musician who requires solitude to write, reflect, channel... Joni's output & the incredible artistry of her output suggests to me that her muse pretty much required her time 24/7... Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 19:29:14 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: is it just ME???? In a message dated 11/05/2004 00:25:05 GMT Daylight Time, emzdogz@yahoo.com writes: << what the HALE is that thing sticking out of the "pocket of the asphalt" in the Hejira cover photo????? I'm looking, and I'm like noooo, Em, shut uppp....what the heck IS that??? Is it like "battery-powered" you think? >> Are you the only one? Oh no, nohow!! This is a hardy perennial, Em, and has caused and will continue to provoke much mirth on the list, amongst those of us with filthy minds - erm, I mean those of *them* with dirty minds... Azeem in London NP: Frente - Pretty Friend ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:34:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: is it just ME???? - --- AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: > Are you the only one? Oh no, nohow!! This is a hardy perennial, Em, > and has > caused and will continue to provoke much mirth on the list, amongst > those of > us with filthy minds - erm, I mean those of *them* with dirty > minds... Hi Azeem, ok thanks for letting me know its not "just me". I can live with it, seeing as how I'm in such good company. :) Em ===== ........... "We boogied in the kitchen, we boogied in the hall I got some on my finger and I wiped it on the wall.." Chuck Berry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:35:59 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Hejira I agree with you on the amazing honesty of those lyrics...In fact, those lyrics freaked me out in so many ways when I first heard them as they really hit close to home with me... Its amazing the way she writes these lines as much as what she says... Its like a train of thought conversation she's having with herself & then she ends it with such an incredible metaphor... Amazing yes... Mike> "Maybe I've never really loved I guess that is the truth. I've spent my whole life in clouds At icy altitudes." Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:41:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: is it just ME???? - --- AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: Oh no, nohow!! This is a hardy perennial a "hardy perennial"!!!!!!! lol!!!! thats a new name for it, but kind of appropriate somehow!!!!! lmao!!!! Azeem thanks for the corroboration.... :D Em ===== ........... "We boogied in the kitchen, we boogied in the hall I got some on my finger and I wiped it on the wall.." Chuck Berry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 01:41:33 +0100 From: "tantra_apso" Subject: THOSL I listened to this for the first time in ages the other day, in my car on a longish journey. It wa smy first Joni album ever bought on the strenght of having hear The Jungle Line on the radio. Now, 29 years alter, it still sounds so good. Her voice in good form. I ca imagine th shock this album must have caused her fans as it was so different form her previous works. One cannot blame some of them for not going on with Joni. As it was my first album, i ahd nothing to go ona nd later when i did have them all, i liked her constant chaning. I still like the album for all the reasons I liked it in the first place. I still have no clue what some of the lyrics mean, some sentences within songs make sense and others in the same song just don't register a meaning with me. i was also surprised that a 16 year old liked this album so much. I do wonder if Joni is being a tad precious with her writing. is there anything to be gained by writing in such a way that people haven;t a clue what she is saying? And yes, i have checked with people not as thick as I, like English Professors and the like, and they have no clue either! Anyway, this listen just made me think how brilliant she is/was, how this album must have knocked socks off, how i can see why it pissed some of fans off, how it doesn't seem to have aged. It seems to me a remarkable piece of work now, especially considering when it was written. Not a thouhgt i ahd at 16 in 75 when just enjoying it and not realsiing how different it was nor how it would stand the test of time. Like ABBA, this album, THOSL,stands up well all these years later..... bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 01:45:04 +0100 From: "tantra-apso" Subject: Re: Hejira > "We boogied in the kitchen, we boogied in the hall > I got some on my finger and I wiped it on the wall.." > > Chuck Berry > is there a compo on for the most stomach churning lyric or something? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 01:53:02 +0100 From: "tantra-apso" Subject: Re: Hejira I think it very likely that joni has always searched for the love and acceptance she seems to have not got from her mother. Assuming further, as she was most unliley to aware of this, her looking for it with men was always going to fail. The love two adults share is quite different from the parent child love she was needing. Just cos she is now 60 does not mean she has necessarily realsied this or worked thru it. in fact her TT album suggested she still ahd issues with her mother. The fact that she appears to have felt loved by her father would not fill the hole elft by her moter and would not ptevent her trying to fill this with her men. The men of course were not going to be able to giver her what she craved-a mothers love and accpetence-and thus the relationships were always doomed. If one can either get that need met or accpet it as never going to be, it would elave one free to accpet and enjoy the love two adutls can share bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Mike Friedman" ; "Em" Cc: "jonilist" Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 7:18 PM Subject: Re: Hejira > "Maybe I've never really loved > I guess that is the truth. > I've spent my whole life in clouds > At icy altitudes." > > A painful admission, to be sure - really just an update of > this one: > > "I've looked at love from both sides now > From give and take, and still somehow > It's love's illusions I recall > I really don't know love at all" > > And the offhand reference to 'clouds' is probably not just a > coincidence either. Amelia usually places at the top of the > JMDL song poll, it's currently #2, followed by...SfS! > > Bob > > NP: Becker & Fagen, "If It Rains" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 20:54:01 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's music & lovemaking In a message dated 5/10/04 3:03:50 AM, ?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= > I've been following this thread and find it very interesting. I think if you're a real music lover, and are listening to music with lyrics (Joni or not), it would be very difficult to get into a heavy lovemaking session unless the lyrics and melody are sensual and subdued; otherwise, I imagine you'd be torn between listening to the lyrics and giving yourself completely to making love. I think instrumentals would be better suited for a lovemaking session simply because it allows you to really get "into" the act (no pun intended) without the chance of distraction by lyrics or a story line of a song. Personally, I think if you're going about lovemaking the right way, you are making your OWN music and don't need anything else. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:54:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Hejira lol, sorry I changed it. That was a yesterday mood and no longer applies. My apologies. Em - --- tantra-apso wrote: > is there a compo on for the most stomach churning lyric or something? ===== .............. "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 01:58:26 +0100 From: "tantra-apso" Subject: Re: Hejira no need to apologise! I just wondered what it pertained to. I didn't wonder too much about the lyric itself! Ick! It actually reminds me of the man fingering Joni in one of the Heira songs-can't recall which one now. Cleverly written but still evoiked the same unpleasnat imagery(to me). bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Em" To: "tantra-apso" ; "jonilist" Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 1:54 AM Subject: Re: Hejira > lol, sorry I changed it. > That was a yesterday mood and no longer applies. > My apologies. > Em > > --- tantra-apso wrote: > > is there a compo on for the most stomach churning lyric or something? > > > ===== > .............. > > "I'm a wheel I'm a wheel, I can roll I can feel, and you can't stop me turning. > I'm the sun I'm the sun I can move I can run, but you'll never stop me burning." > > ...rainbow ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 02:00:50 +0100 From: "tantra-apso" Subject: Re: Joni's music & lovemaking bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ > Personally, I think if you're going about lovemaking the right way, you > are making your OWN music and don't need anything else. Well, I am almost inclined to agree with you. Don't want music and find it distracting and don't need anything to put me in the mood-my feelings for John do that. I also don't think there is a 'right way' to make love. Lots of wrong ways, but no right way. > > Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 20:45:19 -0700 From: Rick Subject: Re: is it just ME???? It is very obviously her left arm with a thin metal bracelet on it, sticking out from under her fur coat and disappearing into a slit pocket which is now obscured by the asphalt of the highway. At least to those of us with minds that run pure (and who don't listen to any music while making love 'cause what's the point? One always distracts from the other.) Rick On 5/10/04 4:21 PM, emzdogz@yahoo.com wrote > what the HALE is that thing sticking out of the "pocket of the asphalt" > in the Hejira cover photo????? I'm looking, and I'm like noooo, Em, > shut uppp....what the heck IS that??? Is it like "battery-powered" you > think? > I mean I know my vision sucks anymore, but really.... > also why is her hed so far over to the left? (her right) > I'm just shaking my head, cuz I'm sure I'm just nuts. > I miss the days when album covers were BIG! so it was easier to > scrutinize them. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #132 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)