From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #113 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, April 22 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 113 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Where are you in the pictures? [Em ] Re: You brush against a stranger... [Chris Marshall ] Joni a poet ["Lucy Hone" ] A poet can sing; sometimes we try, yes we always try ["Kate Cox" ] Diana Krall interview, Macleans mag - sjc [Catherine McKay ] Today's Library Links: April 22 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: Diana Krall interview, Macleans mag - sjc [Rick and Susan Subject: Re: Where are you in the pictures? - --- Susan Guzzi wrote: > > Now the one of the other songs that give me a visual - as if they all > don't, but in the case of the ones I intend to mention - it's a > constant repeating scene. In the case of - Night in the City" ... I > see this exact block in NYC - and picture a young bohemian artist > kind of couple, running joyously down the stairs of a building, I > think its on St. Marks Street - from upstairs above the old Orlins > cafe, which is no longer there from what I hear. But so what I aint > 25 anymore either. I think its just twilight and they are off to > walk and dance and dine and make love on a rooftop - later. And > well they may be a little high on life or some herbal influence - but > they are joyous - in love - and on top of the world! Hi Susan. and errr, good morning..my its early but I'm reading the Joni list posts and doing coffee. Yeah "Night In the City" gives me flashes too, back to when I first left home and was living in Germany (Cologne) suposedly going to art school, which I did, but mostly, sheesh, what can I say...drinking BEER and making love and going out at night and just letting lights flash on my eyelids. Used to play/sing that song too myself...it probably sounded very funny. Kinda high energy now that I think back. Used to get my ex to do the "double vocal" part..... lmao!!!!!!!!!! I think it sounded very hilarious.. Actually I *bet* its on the "Embarrassing Tape"..we had some friends who produced sound for tv cartoons over there and they recorded us for some reason. So its pretty funny, our amateur efforts rather cleanly recorded..and then they had audience clapping tracks and after a couple of the cuts they stuck on this HUGE clapping - musta been taken from like a symphony performance or something....LOL!!!!!!!!! I haven't been able to ever listen to that tape for reasons of total mortification, and I hoped all along she'd destroy it. But maybe its time to listen just for a laugh, and to remember lost youth. Happy Wednesday, all! Thanks for sharing Susan. :) Em ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:01:03 +0100 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: You brush against a stranger... Texas are/were huge in the UK (and I guess Europe too). I'd not be surprised to here that Charlene Spiteri is a Joni fan although I've nothing to back that up. In fact, one of the soundtrack songs from Love Actually was a Texas song. http://www.texas.uk.com/ is the official site. etc. - --Chris Marshall chrisATstryngs.com (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:59:05 +0100 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: Joni a poet JOni is a poet... Valery..some one whose literary theories I had to look at... Said that "poetry is words dancing" and I would say that is so. The beauty of Joni is that if you cannot sing her words you can learn them as poetry and they work well... her use of all the poetic devices within the framework of song denotes to me, a strongly poetic lean on how they are originated. I think that is true of all great poems... that ..... They can translate into song....I used to doubt this until I heard one of my favourite poems (The lady of Shallot) released from its' sometimes leaden (but always beautiful) schema by Loreena McKennit.... It is sublime. She also sings "Dark night of the soul" a poem by St John of the Cross and that is just astonishing.... People are too afraid of embracing poetry thinking it always has to rhyme....you can make a poem out of seventeen sylables..(Haiku). My mother wrote exquisite haiku and this is my favourite one of hers.. Your voice when we speak accross the pain of distance flowers in my heart. Not conventional in the western sense but it is still poetry to the Japanese.. POetry is not one thing, it cannot be defined as one thing. The same poem, as will the same song, will mean something different to those who read it. The discussion about the imagery of the "bottle and spoon" threw up several different interpretations. Jonis music is more erudite than mere songstery... she paints with words and then hangs them on the magic of her music and the fabric woven from the best musicians.... Does it matter..... if it curls in your ear like a lovers voice and leaves its memory in your heart? Lucy (back from a hectic day driving up to Essex on the M25.. which is our version of the LA freeway.. in other words an enormous parking lot... but lacking the honye limbed Californians and a number of palm trees.... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:57:48 +0000 From: "Kate Cox" Subject: A poet can sing; sometimes we try, yes we always try Hello! I haven't posted here before, but I was really excited to find all these intelligent conversations you guys were having about Joni Mitchell, and I just thought I would add my thoughts on the issue of whether or not she is poet. I think that sometimes she is, and sometimes she isn't. I don't mean that she sometimes tries and fails, or that she is inconsistent; I just mean that she has different intentions for all her songs, and each involve different elements of herself. I read an interview with Joni on the site recently - http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=175 - in which she said that, if she were to publish an anthology of the lyrics she considered to be poetry, she would include 'Hejira' but not 'Help Me'. I think this statement is self-explanatory. With 'Help Me', I think Joni intended to create a feel-good pop song; with 'Hejira', she wanted to explore and analyse the contents of her consciousness in a more profound and intensive way. In this way, 'Hejira' and many other songs fit the criteria of poetry which Nuriel gave, although in different ways: >the profession today >commonly adopts an amalgam of three distinct viewpoints. >Traditionalist argue that a poem is an expression of a vision that is >rendered in a form intelligible and pleasurable to others and >so likely to arouse kindred emotions. For Modernists, a poem is an >autonomous object that may or may not represent the real world >but is created in language made distinctive by its complex web of >references. Postmodernists look on on poems as collages of current >idioms that are intriguing but self-contained: they employ, challenge and/or >mock preconceptions, but refer to nothing beyond >themselves. I also really agree with Ron's point that: >if i can read the lyrics without the music, and still really enjoy it, then >its poetry to me. Of course it's impossible to imagine how you would respond to Joni's lyrics if you'd never heard the music, but I really think that it would be possible to read the lyrics from STOAS, Blue, FTR, and HOSL (these are just my personal choices) and to experience the wholeness of their meaning without losing anything from the lack of music. On those albums, either the lyrics or the music could stand alone in their brilliance: their combination is so perfect, accurate, sensitive and beautiful that sometimes it's too intense to bear! Some of Jim Morrison's lyrics (released on record and unreleased) have been published, and they lose nothing in strength or impact from a lack of musical accompaniment. His first gravestone in Paris (before it was stolen) bore the words 'Poet and dreamer'. Joni should certainly be accredited for being a poet, as well as a songwriter, musician and artist. She has so many different elements, and she is both talented and free enough that they never contradict each other. Kate Cox in London - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Stay in touch better and keep protected online with MSNs NEW all-in-one Premium Services. Find out more here. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:29:01 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: A poet can sing; sometimes we try, yes we always try That was a wonderful post, Kate...first of all welcome to the discussion and please keep it coming. Second I agree with all of these thoughts about poetry & Joni as a poet. I think it's possible for her to paint with words and music, by the same token she can paint with words OR music. In the case of Hejira (and with most or her work as presented by her), she does both. Obviously, her music stands alone as there are many many wonderful instrumental interpretations of her work. By the same token, her words stand on their own as well. If it's no big deal that her songs are performed without the lyrics, I don't see that it's any big deal that they're also legitimate poetry without the music. After all, how many composers have published books of their lyrics? Certainly the Cole Porters, Irving Berlins, Ira Gershwins but in the modern pop arena very few have...Joni, Dylan, Springsteen...I don't know them all but I'll bet it's a darn short list. Bob NP: Stan Ridgway, "Running With The Carnival" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:58:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: A poet can sing; sometimes we try, yes we always try - --- Kate Cox wrote: > Hello! I haven't posted here before, but I was really excited to find > all > these intelligent conversations you guys were having.... hi Kate, nice to meet you! Em here, down in Tampa Florida. I am new to this list as well, hope you enjoy it as I am. Makes me "feel", every day. At LEAST once! :) Em ps also your subject line is making very mad at myself again for having recently let my STAS vinyl go..I bet it was trashed...gotta get the CD SOONly! ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:01:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: A Musical Gift It's often that i read that some of us have a need to discover new music. I mean, really good music. And so, i've made a collection of 4ad artists, gathered them on 2 cd's, and would like to share this delight with you all. Some of you may have heard the amazing music by some 4ad artists. My aim was to create a collection that would fit us Joniphiles. The songs are lovely. Once you hear them - you'll understand. All you have to do, in case your hunger for breathtaking music is like mine, is e-mail me your mail address, and i'll send you a copy of the 2 cd's. (No bombs, i promise:)). It's for free, all expences on me, so what have you got to lose? The collection is very pleasent to the ears, beautiful lyrics, voices that'll take your breath away, it's funny, it's blue, it's ironic, it's filled with emotion, sensuality, wisdom, and the harmonies are heavenly. This is my gift to you all. Here's the list of the artists and songs that i've chosen especially for my beloved JMDL: CD 1: 1. THE WOLFGANG PRESS - BIRDIE SONG 2. THIS MORTAL COIL - MR. SOMEWHERE 3. LUSH - MONOCHROME 4. MOJAVE - BLUEBIRD OF HAPPINESS 5. THE MOUNTAIN GOATS - NO CHILDREN 6. KENDRA SMITH - TEMPORARILY LUCY 7. KRISTIN HERSH - SUNDROPS 8. LISA GERMANO - TURNING INTO BETTY 9. BETTIE SERVEERT - TOM BOY 10. BREEDERS - OFF YOU 11. TARNATION - THERE'S SOMEONE 12. PALE SAINTS - KINKY LOVE 13. CASS MCCOMBS - NOT THE WAY 14. NEIL HALSTEAD - SEE YOU ON ROOFTOPS 15. LISA GERMANO - BRUISES 16. RED HOUSE PAINTERS - LORD KILL THE PAIN 17. THROWING MUSES - TWO STEP CD 2: 1. UNREST - ANGEL I WILL WALK YOU HOME 2. LISA GERMANO - SMALL HEADS 3. HIS NAME IS ALIVE - SUMMER SONG 4. THE MOUNTAIN GOATS - IDLES OF THE KING 5. LUSH - LOVELIFE 6. TANYA DONELLY - THE STORM 7. COCTEAU TWINS - BLUE BELL KNOLL 8. TARNATION - THE WELL 9. BLONDE REDHEAD - MADDENING CLOUD 10. TV ON THE RADIO - MR. GRIEVES 11. RED HOUSE PAINTERS - MEDICINE BOTTLE 12. KRISTIN HERSH - BASEBALL FIELD 13. BETTIE SERVEERT - COW COW COWARD 14. GUSGUS - BAMBI 15. LISA GERMANO - VICTORIA'S SECRET 16. NEIL HALSTEAD - SEASONS 17. PALE SAINTS - FINE FRIEND 18. LUSH - ETHERIEL So, don't be too shy, and feel free to e-mail me, so i can make you a copy of your own, and what may be an amazing door in the halls of music that you're yet to open and enter. It's been a pleasure making this collection for you, and this pleasure is about to become yours:) Love, Nuriel Here's a quate from an interview with Ivo Watts-Russell, The Man Behind 4AD : " I still believe in music, I have a great respect for the depth of emotions that music can inspire and provoke in an individual or in me, and that's really what I'm looking for. It can be a very broad range of emotions. I've always enjoyed music that helps create a personal connection between the listener and whatever is coming out of the speakers" p.s. Dear Catherine, i'll be waiting for your "order" too:) Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:38:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Diana Krall interview, Macleans mag - sjc Diana Krall is interviewed in the Apr 26 Maclean's mag There are some Joni bits, quoted here: "Of course Krall didn't just listen to old jazz records, because like any child of the 1970s and 1980s she didn't just listen to jazz. The old Tom Waits albums took another spin on the hi-fi. Joni Mitchell too. Mitchell records like For The Roses and Hejira got her thinking about "so many things that are important -- that are specifically Canadian -- that I can't really talk to a lot of people about," she says. "What it's like to want to go away so badly to New York. Be with the cats. Go to Bradley's" -- the lost, lamented Greenwich Village club where Krall and so many other young musicians used to sit at the bar and watch the world's best jazzmen play what was, by common accord, the best piano in town. "And then to come back, so many years later, and spin the Joni Mitchell records she left behind. "You know: just write what you know," she says. "And there's a lot here [on Vancouver Island] that's a lot more interesting to me now than when I went away." [...] "[...]What was it like working with Elvis Costello? "Krall chuckles. "What do you think? I don't know how this will transfer to the page -- which I'm learning; an eyebrow raised is hard to put into print -- but that's like asking how would I like to collaborate with Bob Dylan. Or Joni Mitchell." "And what does the final product sound like? Well, first of all, it sounds unabashedly like a jazz record. Six of the tunes are by Krall and Costello. Krall covers a Costello number from before they met, Almost Blue, and songs by Mitchell, Tom Waits and Mose Allison." The whole thing is here: http://www.macleans.ca/culture/music/article.jsp?content=20040426_79222_79222 ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:52:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: A poet can sing; sometimes we try, yes we always try --- Kate Cox wrote: > Hello! I haven't posted here before, but I was > really excited to find all > these intelligent conversations you guys were having > about Joni Mitchell, > and I just thought I would add my thoughts on the > issue of whether or not > she is poet. Hey, Kate. Thanks for posting. It's good to hear new views. > I read an interview with Joni on the site recently - > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=175 - in > which she said that, if > she were to publish an anthology of the lyrics she > considered to be > poetry, she would include 'Hejira' but not 'Help > Me'. > > I think this statement is self-explanatory. With > 'Help Me', I think Joni > intended to create a feel-good pop song; with > 'Hejira', she wanted to > explore and analyse the contents of her > consciousness in a more profound > and intensive way. In this way, 'Hejira' and many > other songs fit the > criteria of poetry which Nuriel gave, although in > different ways: I have no idea how to explain whether Joni is or is not a poet, or indeed, what poetry is vs song-writing, although your reference to Joni's statements about "Hejira" vs "Help me" sounds like it's on the right track. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:49:49 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: A poet can sing; sometimes we try, yes we always try hi kate! nice post, and welcome. i thought your comparison of help me and hejira was particularly astute. think of the bridge of help me: Didn't it feel good We were sitting there talking Or lying there not talking Didn't it feel good You dance with the lady With the hole in her stocking Didn't it feel good Didn't it feel good they're fantastic lyrics, but if you didn't know the melody, you'd probably be unimpressed. they must be sung. but the imagery in hejira, after she'd exorcized her flowery phase, but kept her ambitious turns of phrase -- hejira reads wonderfully on the page. and the song is written differently, just a series of chord changes with brilliant instrumentalists, with the same melody almost repeating over and over, and stanza after similarly constructed stanza. don't get me wrong, i believe the song 'hejira' touches heaven, and 'help me' as much as i love it, doesn't. but you are correct: help me is lyrics, hejira isn't necessarily. i'm just going to remind everyone, especially those who haven't heard this rant of mine before: hejira is unbelievably cinematic, and that's a huge poetic achievement. EXT: snow-covered chimneys on urban rooftops, night sky, slightly blurry CAMERA, reverse pan until full moon, slightly comes into view. VOICEOVER "those chimneys and the clouds look like truce flags" CAMERA, reverse pan until it becomes clear that moon, clouds and chimneys, are seen in reflection of high-modernist glass-box building INT: CAMERA, continues reverse pan until window frame and generic hotel furniture comes into view. which sort of connects with lucy's early thread about visuals. this is my single most forceful visual that i experience listening to joni's music, and i treasure it every single time (though i don't really hear the voiceover, i was just trying to be clever) patrick np - silence "the child is so sweet, and the girls are so rapturous. isn't it lovely how artists can capture us?" 'children and art', from sondheim's 'sunday in the park with george' >I read an interview with Joni on the site recently - >http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=175 - in which she said that, if >she were to publish an anthology of the lyrics she considered to be >poetry, she would include 'Hejira' but not 'Help Me'. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:58:16 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: joni- a poet? hi >>>>>leslie wrote >>>>>>>She definately has had alot to say, and should be indoctrinated into a secret Society. ~ joni in the inner circle???? never!!!!!!! not till she comes to jonifest!!!! :-) ron ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 02:11:25 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: April 22 On April 22 the following articles were published: 1983: "Subject - Henry Lewy" - BAM (Biography) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=590 1986: "Adams headlines Expo gala" - Toronto Star (Mention) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1124 2000: "An All-Star Tribute to Joni Mitchell" - Variety (Review - Appearance) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1041 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 23:16:52 -0700 From: Rick and Susan Subject: Re: Diana Krall interview, Macleans mag - sjc On 4/21/04 7:38 PM, anima_rising@yahoo.ca wrote > There are some Joni bits, quoted here: > > "Of course Krall didn't just listen to old jazz > records.........the old Tom Waits > albums took another spin on the hi-fi. Joni Mitchell > too. Mitchell records like For The Roses and Hejira > got her thinking about "so many things that are > important -- that are specifically Canadian. Just like I said last week, the influence of Hejira (and DJRD) really show on this CD. A superb album. Rick ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #113 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)