From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #112 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, April 21 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 112 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Fw: [acousticharmonies] Joni Mitchell [Emiliano ] Re: You brush against a stranger... ["ron" ] Re: Fw: Wilson Phillips Covers CD!?!?! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: wtrf [Randy Remote ] wtrf . . . Joni as poet ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Re: Where are you in the pictures? [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: Where are you in the pictures? [Susan Guzzi ] joni- a poet? ["Leslie Neumann" ] Today's Library Links: April 21 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:42:27 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: [acousticharmonies] Joni Mitchell Well, since I'm not forwarding Wally's... and there's a new one from this day that I'd love to do ;-) Hi, Bob! I hope you don't mind your must-have compilation is taking its way there! Love y'all, even the ugly americans Emiliano, so proud these days for being Spaniard! - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Barry Mc Cabe" Para: "Acousticharmonies" Enviado: lunes, 19 de abril de 2004 15:28 Asunto: Re: [acousticharmonies] Joni Mitchell > Hi Robin & All, > > Robin Tarry wrote: > > > Joni Mitchell~Off The Record > > Compiled by Bob Muller > > OK, I've got to admit - I've never liked Joni. I just don't 'get' her - > never have and probably never will. However the only reason I'm talking > about her now is because I read a mail recently about her on another > list and I have to admit the way the guy wrote about her really tempted > me to go back and check out some of her stuff. I'm going to re-post his > mail here (he doesn't mind). I think I posted something from him before > (the Simon & Garfunkel re-union tour). He's a very intense writer, so > maybe it's just his energy I'm picking up on and after checking out some > Joni I'll still have the same opinion!! lol. > > So my question is - do you Joni fans agree with what he writes? Should I > check out this song (and other material from her)? Thanks for any info. > Peace > Barry > ****** > Legend has it David Geffen told Joni Mitchell to write a HIT! > > In 1971, Joni Mitchell released one of the two best singer-songwriter > albums ever, "Blue". The press praised it. The cognoscenti applauded > it. Sensitive boys and girls purchased it. But radio didn't play it. > > It took Joni a while to develop. Oh, her songwriting chops were there, > she just wasn't sure who she wanted to BE! > > The first album, "Song To A Seagull", was tentative. > > "Clouds" was so quiet and introspective as to inspire the likes of Nick > Drake. It was single observant female ripping open her heart to reveal > her soul. A true classic in retrospect, but absent SO many sides of > Joni Mitchell. For Joni Mitchell isn't only quiet and sensitive, she's > also loud and rocking, wry and coy, she's a fully-rounded GIRL! > > Finally, these different elements came out in "Ladies Of The Canyon". > THIS was the breakthrough. THIS was a WOMAN'S take on the Southern > California scene. > > But there were no hits. > > Oh, there were hits for others. CSNY had a monster with an electrified > "Woodstock". And Tom Rush had cut "The Circle Game" years before... > Actually, that was one of "Ladies Of The Canyon"'s flaws. Why WAS "The > Circle Game" on the record. It seemed tacked on, out of place. Like > "Big Yellow Taxi". > > But "Blue" was created on a fresh piece of paper. All of a piece. It > was a STATEMENT, this is where I am NOW! There was the true desire of > "All I Want". The wistful/hopeful "California". And her own personal > "Day In The Life", "The Last Time I Saw Richard". > > But it was no longer 1968. FM radio was no longer underground. It > didn't play to the senses, rather it played to TESTOSTERONE! FM had > been codified into AOR. AOR was music to drive your Camaro by. If it > was sensitive, it was longhair on dope lamenting the absence of his old > lady. True thought, true introspection by a FEMALE? That had no place > on the dial. > > Joni Mitchell had finally gotten it TOGETHER! But the INSTITUTIONS had > passed her by. > > Maybe the lack of success contributed to Joni's retreat. Buying a plot > of land in backwoods Canada and living there all alone, trying to...get > her head together. > > And what emerged next was 1972's "For The Roses". > > There are no minor Joni Mitchell records. At least until some time in the > 80s. Yet, "For The Roses", although BRILLIANT, although deserving of > FIVE STARS, was a step shy of "Blue". When Stevie Wonder hit his peak > with "Talking Book", the audience was WITH HIM! People were paying > ATTENTION! Everybody was WATCHING! This spurred him on. To write > "Innervisions", and "Fulfillingness' First Finale". But people weren't > watching Joni Mitchell. Not in prodigious quantities. So she went > deeper into herself. Yet, unlike with the first two albums, the record > was of a piece. It was "Blue", but from a different perspective. > > Although save one you don't hear any of these songs on the radio, the > tracks off "For The Roses" contain some of Joni Mitchell's BEST lines. > > Listen to "Lesson In Survival". Not only is it MUSICALLY pleasing, it's > an honest portrait of twentysomething adulthood. Just any man, > anywhere, doing anything...that works when you're nineteen. But as you > start to approach thirty, you get to know yourself, and what you need. > This is SO different from today's music. Today's music is about > reflecting the audience. Whereas by singing HER story, Joni Mitchell > allowed one to TRULY identify. > > Still, the best song on "For The Roses" is "Woman Of Heart And Mind". > > Joni begins by stating exactly who she is. > > "I am a woman of heart and mind With time on her hands No child to raise" > > She's OPEN, she'll PLAY. But will she be taken advantage of, will she > be ABUSED? > > Joni will deliver for you. Be your best friend. Your mother even. > > But like a typical guy, after getting what you want, THAT'S NOT ENOUGH! > > "After the rush when you come back down You're always disappointed > Nothing seems to keep you high Drive your bargains Push your papers Win > your medals Fuck your strangers Don't it leave you on the empty side" > > WOW! > > And what's even MORE amazing is today there are WOMEN like this. So > into ACHIEVEMENT, so into their RESUME that they can't wholly connect, > can't be counted on to BE THERE for you. Your attachment to them is > often as an ACCESSORY! > > But Joni draws a line. > > "I'm looking for affection and respect A little passion And you want > stimulation-nothing more That's what I think But you know I'll try to be > there for you When your spirits start to sink" > > God, that's what I'M looking for. You don't have to be perfect, but you > have to be IN IT! You have to want ME! Be into ME! Otherwise, it just > doesn't work. > > And then there's the poignancy of the closing lines. Ones I've uttered > only second to the couplet in "A Case Of You". > > "You know the times you impress me most Are the times when you don't try > When you don't even try" > > That's IT! Who you ARE is enough. You don't have to dress up. You > don't have to put on airs. I need no demonstration of erudition. > There's only one YOU! Be THAT person. THAT'S the person I'm enamored of. > > [Oh, the couplet in "A Case Of You"? It's: "I could drink a case of you > darling, and I would still be on my feet."] Still as great as "Woman Of > Heart And Mind" is, Joe and Jane Average would never come in contact > with it. They're too far removed from artistry. There's no AIRPLAY! > How can we get THEM to hear the REST of Joni's music. > > By having a HIT! > > Yes, this was the OPPOSITE of today's syndrome. The HIT will draw you > to the ALBUM tracks. And, at the time, it was well known that the hit > was oftentimes a confection, that didn't truly reflect the artist, that > wasn't truly representative of the artist's music. But only music FANS > knew this. The people who listened to hits? They were OUT OF IT! > > Kind of like today. But now NO ONE CARES about the fan, major labels > ONLY play to the casual listener. > > So, to break through, Joni sat down to write a hit. > > I won't say "You Turn Me On, I'm A Radio" is the weakest song on "For > The Roses", but it's kind of pedestrian. There aren't the changes in so > many of Joni's great songs. The words aren't as deep or cryptic. > > Still, it was rewarding to finally hear Joni on the AM radios that still > populated so many cars. > > Yet, "You Turn Me On, I'm A Radio" was "For The Roses"'s throwaway. The > trifle, not the meat. So, I never play it. I mean if I play all of > "For The Roses", I hear it. But I've never ripped it. I never play it > only. "You Turn Me On, I'm A Radio" is for EVERYBODY! And what I love > about Joni, is she's done it for ME! Yes, that's what it's like > listening to her albums, like she cut them for YOU, like she knows YOU! > > Still, I've heard "You Turn Me On, I'm A Radio" so much, it's in my > DNA. And, as I exited from my car an hour ago on a beautiful Southern > California afternoon, it started to go through my head. > > "I know you don't like weak women You get bored so quick And you don't > like strong women 'Cause they're hip to your tricks" > > Wow. What AM I looking for? > > Joni's THOUGHT about this. She's got me pegged. > > God, I hate being bored. Then again, I don't want to constantly be ON > GUARD! > > I rushed into my house and pulled the lyrics. > > The song SEEMS to be about a radio station, but really it's about Joni. > Sending her message. To a man. > > "And I'm sending you out This signal here I hope you can pick it up Loud > and clear" > > That's what I wait for. The SIGNAL! It can be a look. It can be an > invitation. Just a demonstration that you're INTO ME, that you want to > PLAY! > > And the way the song ENDS! > > I use these lines all the time. I wait for when a woman uses them on me. > > "Call me at the station The lines are open" > > I'm READY. And WILLING! AND ABLE!! > > It occurred to me. Joni Mitchell's sell-outs are STILL far superior to > EVERYTHING broadcast on hit stations today. > > Eventually, with her following album, "Court and Spark", Joni Mitchell > truly broke through to the mainstream. She had HITS! > > But make no mistake, she didn't need to develop. She already HAD IT! > The audience just had to catch up with HER! Thank god the process > didn't frustrate her so much that she gave up. Thank god she had a > record company and manager who could see the long term. > > Play ANY of these albums. In their under fifty minute length they STILL > have more insight into the human condition than ANYTHING released > since. I only hope as young boys discover Led Zeppelin, they and their > female brethren will discover Joni Mitchell. Yes, Joni's for > EVERYBODY! She's our best selves. Not perfect, but honest and > three-dimensional. > > ---------------------------------------- > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:59:52 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: You brush against a stranger... hi came up with the following article after looking up the line. indisputable proof that joni *is* a poet - after all, if they say so on the internet it *must* be true :-) ron Your mother should know... Joni Mitchell's Court and Spark By Anne Seidler Published: Thursday, November 13, 2003 Article Tools: Page 1 of 2 Court and Spark is truly the best of the best. Joni Mitchell was the best female songwriter of the '60s and '70s, and Court and Spark, released in 1974, is her greatest achievement, combining understated lyrics and deep philosophy, innovative arrangements and painstakingly realized songs. The first few bars of piano that open the record - which are full of the subdued eloquence that characterizes Mitchell's work - prepare the listener for an album that explores human hopes and shortcomings with honesty and grace. The album is so flawlessly produced that its wide range of unconventional instruments (chimes, woodwinds, clavinet) come together like the mechanisms of a Swiss watch - yet it still somehow sounds effortless and improvisational. Many well-known musicians contributed to the album, including Jose Feliciano on electric guitar and Graham Nash, David Crosby and - bizarrely enough - Cheech and Chong on backup vocals. By the time she recorded Court and Spark, Mitchell's voice, which was previously known for its lilting, folksy high notes, had slightly mellowed and deepened to a timbre more appropriate for a jazz chanteuse than a barefoot flower child. The album represents Mitchell's transition from the innocent, optimistic voice of songs like "Woodstock" and "Big Yellow Taxi" to that of a sophisticated, but not quite cynical, woman of the world. In a way, her songs mirror the final comedown of the 1970s, when the youthful optimism of the counterculture over-ripened into worldly decadence. You know that the climactic lines of "Car on a Hill" embody more than disappointment in love when Mitchell sings, "It always seems so righteous at the start / When there's so much laughter / When there's so much spark." Mitchell is as much a poet as a musician, and her lyrics on Court and Spark acutely describe cycles of human desire and unfullfilment. The lyrical highlight of the album is "Down to You," a painfully honest, existential meditation on alienation that quietly captures loneliness and human indifference with lyrics like "In the morning there are lovers in the street / They look so high / You brush against a stranger / And you both apologize." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:03:55 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Fw: Wilson Phillips Covers CD!?!?! Thanks for all of those posts, Emiliano...I wish that guy who wrote that thesis on FTR was on this list. Did not know about the Wilson Phillips, so thanks for the tip. Some sources show the title as "California", and some as "Pacific Coast Highway". In any event it comes out next month so I'll find out soon enough. Always glad to see the more obscure Joni titles getting covered...2004 continues to be a MAJOR year for Joni covers! Bob NP: Sara K, "Steam Rises" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:32:25 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: wtrf imo this is Joni's last great album, in general and vocally. Despite the spare production, there is some nice vocal layering in the background. RR Bruce Kimerer wrote: > I must say that WTRF is a real nice record. Have been listening to it after > a long time. And enjoying it a lot. To me, it's Joni's let's have fun rockn > roll album, without the sonic and lyrical baggage of DED & CMIARS. All the > songs have a light production touch, not too heavy, not too spare. Her voice > is great. And the lead off track is so strong that it gives emotional weight > to the whole endeavor. All in all, it sounds like an inevitable step after > DJRD and M. > > Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:40:40 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: wtrf . . . Joni as poet I loved your post here Nuriel, I don't know if I have time to post more on the list or not about this. . . but it was lovely, and Yes, I would say that Joni is a poet. I've always thought so. Oh, what the heck, I'll just post this for now, it's better than nothing. LOve Marianne >Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:06:25 -0700 (PDT) >From: Nuriel Tobias >Subject: RE: wtrf Nuriel said: Mmmmm...well, What is poetry? A short piece of imaginative writing, of a personal nature and laid out in lines is the usual answer. Will that do? Not really. A chopped up short story is not a poem, or not necessarily so. But then poetry definitions are difficult, as is aesthetics generally. What is distinctive and important tends to evade the qualified language in which we attempt to cover all considerations. Perhaps we could add a rider: poetry is a responsible attempt to understand the world in human terms through literary composition. But many contemporary poets would disagree, and the profession today commonly adopts an amalgam of three distinct viewpoints. Traditionalist argue that a poem is an expression of a vision that is rendered in a form intelligible and pleasurable to others and so likely to arouse kindred emotions. For Modernists, a poem is an autonomous object that may or may not represent the real world but is created in language made distinctive by its complex web of references. Postmodernists look on on poems as collages of current idioms that are intriguing but self-contained: they employ, challenge and/or mock preconceptions, but refer to nothing beyond themselves. I think Joni has done all of that, and more, in her works. They're all examples. Love, Nuriel Richard Flynn wrote: But Nuriel, I pretty much qualified that by implyig that she is a port as far as rock 'n' roll lyricists go. I put that provocative statement out there to ask people to justify her poet status--care to elaborate? You or anyone else? examples please. . . and of course, your definition of what constitutes "poetry." - - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Nuriel Tobias Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 9:03 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: wtrf >Richard Flynn wrote: >>"This raises the question of, "is Joni a poet"? I don't think so" >But i do!:) >Love, >Nuriel _________________________________________________________________ Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=hotmail/es2&ST=1/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:00:34 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Where are you in the pictures? In a message dated 4/20/04 3:49:02 PM, les@jmdl.com writes: << From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: Where are you in the pictures? Every time I listen to certain Joni songs I get the same mental pictures in my head.... and I am right in them. Every time. The pictures do not alter, and have not done so for years. >> Hi, Lucy An interesting concept you've exposed.... yes, I also often find myself in the same "mental picture" when listening to many songs, including Joni's. "Peoples Parties", which you've mentioned, always finds me at a party I held at a girlfriend's house when I was back in high school or another party I attended in a luxury Manhattan suite which belonged to the employer of a girl I dated. Very interesting, indeed. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:06:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Where are you in the pictures? Well Hello Joni Freaks! Hey Em ... Ladies of the Canyon is one that gives me visuals too. I dont know who Joni meant those ladies to be - but I know who Annie is to me. She is my long departed Robin - can't hear the song with out a flash of her, with a pinch of something she would create in the kitchen and shove in my mouth as I entered the room. Also with our Queen of all cats at her feet - acting as if she was helping her the whole time! Yep Annie is my Robin for sure! Now the one of the other songs that give me a visual - as if they all don't, but in the case of the ones I intend to mention - it's a constant repeating scene. In the case of - Night in the City" ... I see this exact block in NYC - and picture a young bohemian artist kind of couple, running joyously down the stairs of a building, I think its on St. Marks Street - from upstairs above the old Orlins cafe, which is no longer there from what I hear. But so what I aint 25 anymore either. I think its just twilight and they are off to walk and dance and dine and make love on a rooftop - later. And well they may be a little high on life or some herbal influence - but they are joyous - in love - and on top of the world! On the flip side of the day is "Morning Morgantown." This is one that I picture much in the same way - except of course I picture it with me and a certain someone. Early morning coffee and watching people and the both of us observing and sharing our snapshot of all those around us. Running up to windows and pointing things out - and then buying something frivolous and lauging all the way home. Waving to and smiling at strangers and spreading our infectious joy and laughter - hell there may even still be a milkman around to stop and chat with! And finally Lucy - as you may well imagine Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire - has almost an identical picture for me - except its all true flashbacks. But that rainy part under the fire escape - is so vivid for me as well. Funny even before my personal storm with this issue - i saw this song much the same and it seemd to be sadly - prophetic. Well, you may say I'm a dreamer - as I stare out and play out these visuals - but apparently - I am not the only one! Peace, Susan NP: Nellie McKay - Manhattan Avenue Em wrote: Hi all, I have enjoyed this thread so far..been interesting to read. While I get lots of visuals and mental image flashes from the JM stuff I'm familiar with (yes guilty as charged, early 70's stuff back) I don't ever see *myself* in there, per se..EXCEPT with a groovy little song that I've always loved so much, and which is pure candy. And that would be "Ladies of the Canyon". Dang I love that portrait! Love those women! ANyone know who they are?? Are they specific people?? Industry guys' wives/old ladies/hippy mammas perhaps? Anyway, with this song I am very much transported as myself to the interior of an alternative dwelling on a hillside, lots of natural wood furniture, lots of batik and other wall hangings..particulalrly well done tie -dye and some paisley kinds of stuff. lets see, mucho patchouli, herbal tea, the other kind of tea, you know "tea tea tea tea - to make you free" as Donovan wrote... anyway... I lurv these ladies for some reason and can perfectly well put myself right in that little scenario. OK had to share again...sorry..can't seem to stifle. Can even picture climbing banyans... :) Em reminds me like on 6 Feet Under, their mom's sister who is/was I imagine a sort of "Canyon Lady" tho severely wasted... > Lucy Hone wrote: > Every time I listen to certain Joni songs I get the same mental > pictures in my > head.... and I am right in them. Every time. The pictures do not > alter, and > have not done so for years. > > For Example.. Peoples Parties. > > I am sitting on the floor looking across a room. I have my back to a > chair > arm, it is a large leather chair, chunky, 1930's 40's like a big arm > chair you > find the foyer of a big hotel... and it is slightly tatty. The room > has a sort > of Edward Hopper feel to the lighting.. Somehow dense and airless. > There is a > half open window, but no breeze, and the pale cream curtains hang > down over > slatted blinds. There is a low wooden coffee table ahead of me and on > the > other side of it a long low leather sofa. I have a view of knees and > cocktail > dresses and shoes. The faces of the people are always hidden from me > but I > imagine the men as urbane, aloof, the women trying to be cool but > clamouring > for attention. Harold Pinter would frame it all in silences of the > most > meaningful type. Brittle laughter, fingers describing ideas in the > smokey air, > quietly someone is making arrangements for secret meeting, and out of > sight is > the booming slam of waves onto a sandy beach. > > It is always the same vision and sense of being elsewhere. > > Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire has me hiding under a metal fire > escape on a > wet night. There are rubbish bags and bins and there is always a > feeling of > cold that clings that makes me want to pull my coat around me. Broken > glass, > and dogs roaming and a landscape that alters only as I climb the fire > escape > and peer into the room where people are out of it, on matresses. Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:03:42 -0700 From: "Leslie Neumann" Subject: joni- a poet? Maybe not first and foremost. But look at so many stanzas and verses. Her lines, her rhymes, and rhythms. Yes i wld say she's a poet. The same way Dylan is a poet. She definately has had alot to say, and should be indoctrinated into a secret Society. ~ _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar  get it now! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:02:34 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: April 21 On April 21 the following articles were published: 1988: "Chalk Mark In A Rainstorm" - Rolling Stone (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=306 1997: "A Daughter Lost and Found" - Time (Reunion Story) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=425 1997: "Adoption - Both Sides Now" - Western Report (Reunion Story) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=423 1997: "Joni, No Longer Blue" - Newsweek (Reunion Story, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=92 1997: "Joni's Secret: Mother And Child Reunion" - MacLean's (Reunion Story, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=91 1998: "Negative slant put on Joni Mitchell adoption reunion" - Ottawa Citizen (Opinion) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=740 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #112 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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