From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #111 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, April 20 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 111 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Where are you in the pictures? ["Lucy Hone" ] RE: wtrf [Garret ] Re: Next marketing gimmick for Joni....HITS [Garret ] RE: wtrf [Nuriel Tobias ] RE: wtrf [Em ] Re: Joni, the poet [LCStanley7@aol.com] That Joni film [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Where are you in the pictures? [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: You brush against a stranger... ["Cynthia Vickery" ] Re: You brush against a stranger... [notaro@stpt.usf.edu] Re: Where are you in the pictures? [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: Where are you in the pictures? [Em ] Re: You brush against a stranger...and they rip off your words [SCJoniGuy] Re: You brush against a stranger...and they rip off your words [Jerry Not] Joni and Willy the Shake [Jerry Notaro ] Re: You brush against a stranger...and they rip off your words [SCJoniGuy] Re: You brush against a stranger...and they rip off your words [Jerry Not] Re: You brush against a stranger...and they rip off your words [Chris Mar] Re: Joni, the poet ["ron" ] Re: You brush against a stranger...and they rip off your words [Jerry Not] Re: Where are you in the pictures? [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Where are you in the pictures? [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Where are you in the pictures? [Em ] Fw: [acousticharmonies] Wilson Phillips Covers CD!?!?! [Emiliano ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:22:44 +0100 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: Where are you in the pictures? Every time I listen to certain Joni songs I get the same mental pictures in my head.... and I am right in them. Every time. The pictures do not alter, and have not done so for years. For Example.. Peoples Parties. I am sitting on the floor looking across a room. I have my back to a chair arm, it is a large leather chair, chunky, 1930's 40's like a big arm chair you find the foyer of a big hotel... and it is slightly tatty. The room has a sort of Edward Hopper feel to the lighting.. Somehow dense and airless. There is a half open window, but no breeze, and the pale cream curtains hang down over slatted blinds. There is a low wooden coffee table ahead of me and on the other side of it a long low leather sofa. I have a view of knees and cocktail dresses and shoes. The faces of the people are always hidden from me but I imagine the men as urbane, aloof, the women trying to be cool but clamouring for attention. Harold Pinter would frame it all in silences of the most meaningful type. Brittle laughter, fingers describing ideas in the smokey air, quietly someone is making arrangements for secret meeting, and out of sight is the booming slam of waves onto a sandy beach. It is always the same vision and sense of being elsewhere. Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire has me hiding under a metal fire escape on a wet night. There are rubbish bags and bins and there is always a feeling of cold that clings that makes me want to pull my coat around me. Broken glass, and dogs roaming and a landscape that alters only as I climb the fire escape and peer into the room where people are out of it, on matresses. "Barangrill" IS an Edward Hopper painting called Night Hawks.(i think). The waitress, the people staring into coffees and the solid slab of light smacking the pavement and the rest of the world invisible behind its brightness... "Urge for Going", has me standing out on a jetty looking back towards a town (you would probably do best to think of New England... for the Brits think Western HIghlands of Scotland).. its all inlets and lakes and rocky bits and pine trees, and houses that seem to crowd about, and cling to the fabric of the land around them... "Carey" is a room full of light with a view over the ocean in somewhere like Cadiz in Spain. somewhere a bit tumbledown and a bit in need of love, but the views are spectacular and the air warm. And so it goes. Those are just a few but they always remain fixed... What pictorial sensations do you get from our Joni? I dont often post about Joni related things.... I came to this realisation (oddly enough) listening to "Graceland" by Paul Simon and realising that the opening bars of that song and the opening words remind me, every time, of a hill in France that over looks the Baie de Mont St Michel where, in the low tide mud, there are wonderful meanering streams and when the sun is shining its like a huge river delta.... "Shining like a national guitar". Makes the hairs stand up on my arms thinking about it... Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:45:48 +0100 From: Garret Subject: RE: wtrf Random thoughts are good Richard, especially when they make so much sense, I got the Geffen box or whatever it's called as a christmas gift, and went through the albums one at a time, in order. WTRF was a lot better than i had thought it would be/ Unfortunately this raised my hopes for the next two, which let me down; just didn't like the sound, some of the songs are good, but not near the best that have come out of Joni. Then i was afraid of NRH. I fecking loved (erm, love) this album. It is so much better than i thought it would be. I was expecting it to be boring, but was so wrong. I have always liked the Yeats poem, and initially was a little disconcerted with Joni's adaptation. It has become a new favourite. I *did* expect to love TGR as people here talk it up. no, does not do anything for me. That, for me, is the weak point of the album but it may well grow on me. And baby blue - unique interpretation:-) I'll think about your question "is Joni a poet?". I suspect not, but i previously thought so. it will give me a reason to indulge in her music:-) so keep the random thoughts flying Richard! GARRET Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:43:16 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: wtrf I'm happy to hear this--while there are parts of WTRF that sound cheesy, it's a pretty listenable album: "Moon at the Window" "Chinese Cafe" "You Dream Flat Tires." I even like the much maligned "Underneath the Streetlight" and "Solid Love." On the other hand, I don't much like "Man to Man" or "Ladies' Man" and I could take or leave the I Corinthians 13 rewrite--no prejudice against Biblical content--I like the Job piece (though not the Travelogue version). Speaking of Joni adaptations of other people's texts--and you gotta admit she has brass----well, nerve, anyway to take on some of the greatest poetry of the ages: Book of Job, Yeats's "The Second Coming"--which brings me to what I was gonna say. A couple of weeks back on another listserv I belong to-- the UB Poetics list someone sent the text of the Yeats poem--only it was Joni's lyrics. I do have to say that while it makes a pretty good song, the adaptation suffers as poetry compared to the real poem. This raises the question of, "is Joni a poet"? I don't think so, music is too integral to her works of art (she is an artist) and also a lonely painter who lives in a box of paint. On the other hand I think she's a genius songwriter but not a genius painter. Sorry--many random thoughts here. Richard - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:37:19 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Re: Next marketing gimmick for Joni....HITS As usual i'm about seven digests behind (does anyone else have this problem? lol, by the time i catch up there are always more waiting to be read, so sometimes i start with the most recent and then miss the point of the thread unitl i go backwards). I agree with this post Bob. Hits certainly fulfulls its purpose. I quite disliked Misses at first, but together h & m make a decent collection (maybe even a double cd release would ahve been good). Hits was the first Joni release i bought (in my quest to hear Chelsea Morning) and it got me hooked. So hooked in fact that i have now got all of her albums bar TTT which is on my list somewhere. As you say, T'log and BSN aren't quite up to her previous standard, but how could they be? She is no longer playing the music, gone is the distinctinve guitar and distinctive piano sound. I really did enjoy BSN, but it's nowhere near great in my opinion. T'log may have been better as a single disc (i leave the tracklist to you). Sometimes i wish she would sit down at a piano and compose some more music, with or without singing. GARRET np- Dolly Parton, 9 to 5 Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:03:10 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: **Great song, but putting it on Hits felt like a slap in my face for some reason -- maybe because it hadn't been a true "hit" for Joni and adding it to the disc WAS just a gimmick.** It would have been a much better idea for Joni to assemble & release an "Anthology" or better yet a boxset like her buddies CSNY did. I can understand her point in not wanting to negatively impact sales of her early albums, and by the same token I can understand Reprise wanting a 'collection' type release. Joni does have lots of fans like us who will seek out all of her releases, but there are also "fringe" fans who grew up with Joni's songs on the radio and would not buy 5-6 cd's of hers but would buy a CD that compiles her best-known works, even if our familiarity with the song is through another singer. To that end, 'Hits' does a good job, and like you say, it is to date the only commercial release of Urge For Going on CD, to entice the completists, just as the Geffen release was - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:06:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: RE: wtrf Mmmmm...well, What is poetry? A short piece of imaginative writing, of a personal nature and laid out in lines is the usual answer. Will that do? Not really. A chopped up short story is not a poem, or not necessarily so. But then poetry definitions are difficult, as is aesthetics generally. What is distinctive and important tends to evade the qualified language in which we attempt to cover all considerations. Perhaps we could add a rider: poetry is a responsible attempt to understand the world in human terms through literary composition. But many contemporary poets would disagree, and the profession today commonly adopts an amalgam of three distinct viewpoints. Traditionalist argue that a poem is an expression of a vision that is rendered in a form intelligible and pleasurable to others and so likely to arouse kindred emotions. For Modernists, a poem is an autonomous object that may or may not represent the real world but is created in language made distinctive by its complex web of references. Postmodernists look on on poems as collages of current idioms that are intriguing but self-contained: they employ, challenge and/or mock preconceptions, but refer to nothing beyond themselves. I think Joni has done all of that, and more, in her works. They're all examples. Love, Nuriel Richard Flynn wrote: But Nuriel, I pretty much qualified that by implyig that she is a port as far as rock 'n' roll lyricists go. I put that provocative statement out there to ask people to justify her poet status--care to elaborate? You or anyone else? examples please. . . and of course, your definition of what constitutes "poetry." - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Nuriel Tobias Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 9:03 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: wtrf Richard Flynn wrote: "This raises the question of, "is Joni a poet"? I don't think so" But i do!:) Love, Nuriel Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:00:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: RE: wtrf Nuriel wow that was awesome... I couldn't have thought up such clean definitions if the future of the human race depended on it! Well done! Em :) - --- Nuriel Tobias wrote: > Mmmmm...well, > > What is poetry? A short piece of imaginative writing, of a personal > nature and laid out in lines is the usual answer. Will that do? > > Not really. A chopped up short story is not a poem, or not > necessarily so. But then poetry definitions are difficult, as is > aesthetics generally. What is distinctive and important tends to > evade the qualified language in which we attempt to cover all > considerations. Perhaps we could add a rider: poetry is a responsible > attempt to understand the world in human terms through literary > composition. > > But many contemporary poets would disagree, and the profession today > commonly adopts an amalgam of three distinct viewpoints. > Traditionalist argue that a poem is an expression of a vision that is > rendered in a form intelligible and pleasurable to others and so > likely to arouse kindred emotions. For Modernists, a poem is an > autonomous object that may or may not represent the real world but is > created in language made distinctive by its complex web of > references. Postmodernists look on on poems as collages of current > idioms that are intriguing but self-contained: they employ, challenge > and/or mock preconceptions, but refer to nothing beyond themselves. > > I think Joni has done all of that, and more, in her works. They're > all examples. > > Love, > > Nuriel > > Richard Flynn wrote: > But Nuriel, > I pretty much qualified that by implyig that she is a port as far as > rock > 'n' roll lyricists go. > > I put that provocative statement out there to ask people to justify > her poet > status--care to elaborate? You or anyone else? > > examples please. . . and of course, your definition of what > constitutes > "poetry." > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of > Nuriel Tobias > Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 9:03 PM > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: RE: wtrf > > > Richard Flynn wrote: > "This raises the question of, "is Joni a poet"? I don't think so" > > But i do!:) > > Love, > > Nuriel > Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" > Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:42:01 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni, the poet Richard wrote: I put that provocative statement out there to ask people to justify her poet status--care to elaborate? You or anyone else? examples please. . . and of course, your definition of what constitutes "poetry." Hi Richard, I don't think Joni really needs any justification as for being a poet. She's one of the finest poets the world will ever know. To understand poetry, you have to understand the definition of "poem." A poem according to Webster is: "an arrangement of words, esp. a rhythmical composition, sometimes rhymed, in a style more imaginative than ordinary speech." It comes from the Greek word "poiein" which means "to make." Joni speaks poetically even when she isn't writing. Just listen to her tell the story about the lady bursting into her room while she was knitting in a motel room in Canada after Woodstock, on the DVD Painting with Words and Music. She's as pleasant and entertaining to listen to speaking as she is singing because she has a natural rhythmical tone to her speech and is definitely imaginitive in her expression. The arrangement of the seating for that concert was very poetical also, representing different peoples and different gifts people have. She's all poetry in my opinion, from the way she moves to the way she paints to the way she sings and rhythmically tells stories in her poems put to music. Need I say more?! With love and awe, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:02:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: That Joni film Think it was a year ago or something, that some of you told us that Joni has hired a film director (A woman, and if i recall, a specialist in documentry films) to create a film about her. My question is - is this film one of the 2 new DVD'S? If not - do you know what happened with that project? Love, Nuriel Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:57:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Where are you in the pictures? I hadn't ever thought about this before, but yes, I see the same images in my head for each song I hear. Sometimes I am there, but mostly I'm not. It's like watching a little movie - some scenes shot with a wide-angle, some close-up. Sometimes they grow and change over time when I learn or hear something new. Like now when I hear 'For the Roses' I see Joni sitting in her cabin knitting away. Lucy your images are so vivid and your descriptions so apt and well-written (no surprise there). It's fascinating...I'll have to pay more attention - the process for me (and most I suspect) is just below the level of consciousness. Jenny Lucy Hone wrote: Every time I listen to certain Joni songs I get the same mental pictures in my head.... and I am right in them. Every time. The pictures do not alter, and have not done so for years. For Example.. Peoples Parties. I am sitting on the floor looking across a room. I have my back to a chair arm, it is a large leather chair, chunky, 1930's 40's like a big arm chair you find the foyer of a big hotel... and it is slightly tatty. The room has a sort of Edward Hopper feel to the lighting.. Somehow dense and airless. There is a half open window, but no breeze, and the pale cream curtains hang down over slatted blinds. There is a low wooden coffee table ahead of me and on the other side of it a long low leather sofa. I have a view of knees and cocktail dresses and shoes. The faces of the people are always hidden from me but I imagine the men as urbane, aloof, the women trying to be cool but clamouring for attention. Harold Pinter would frame it all in silences of the most meaningful type. Brittle laughter, fingers describing ideas in the smokey air, quietly someone is making arrangements for secret meeting, and out of sight is the booming slam of waves onto a sandy beach. It is always the same vision and sense of being elsewhere. Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire has me hiding under a metal fire escape on a wet night. There are rubbish bags and bins and there is always a feeling of cold that clings that makes me want to pull my coat around me. Broken glass, and dogs roaming and a landscape that alters only as I climb the fire escape and peer into the room where people are out of it, on matresses. "Barangrill" IS an Edward Hopper painting called Night Hawks.(i think). The waitress, the people staring into coffees and the solid slab of light smacking the pavement and the rest of the world invisible behind its brightness... "Urge for Going", has me standing out on a jetty looking back towards a town (you would probably do best to think of New England... for the Brits think Western HIghlands of Scotland).. its all inlets and lakes and rocky bits and pine trees, and houses that seem to crowd about, and cling to the fabric of the land around them... "Carey" is a room full of light with a view over the ocean in somewhere like Cadiz in Spain. somewhere a bit tumbledown and a bit in need of love, but the views are spectacular and the air warm. And so it goes. Those are just a few but they always remain fixed... What pictorial sensations do you get from our Joni? I dont often post about Joni related things.... I came to this realisation (oddly enough) listening to "Graceland" by Paul Simon and realising that the opening bars of that song and the opening words remind me, every time, of a hill in France that over looks the Baie de Mont St Michel where, in the low tide mud, there are wonderful meanering streams and when the sun is shining its like a huge river delta.... "Shining like a national guitar". Makes the hairs stand up on my arms thinking about it... Lucy Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:03:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: You brush against a stranger... So I'm in the supermarket trying to block out the insipid pop music blaring through the loudspeakers (it's supposed to make me want to shop, but really it's stimulating my urge to run far far away). I've relegated it to background noise but the following lyrics jump out at me... 'You brush against a stranger and you both apologize'. Huh? Is this some horrid cover of 'Down to You'? I listen more... Nope. It's something entirely different and try as I may to memorize some additional lyrics to bring them to the list, they are so nondescript and cliche I cannot hold them my brain. Has anyone heard this song? Know who it is? It's female singer - kind of an Amy Grant sound. Did she/they rip off a Joni lyric? I wonder. Jenny Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:22:36 -0500 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: Re: You brush against a stranger... <> found this on the internet, which may be the offending song. from the rest of the lyrics, i'm thinking the line was plagarized, sho' nuff! cindy ________________________________________________________________ _ Texas "When we are together" oh, I remember you said can I fight and breathe so now I always, always hold my breath you see you're my heaven, you're my spaceman in your shiny shiny suit I'll send up all my prayers and hope they're understood love started making sense I always make mistakes at my expense love has placed a seed and you're the sun that shines down upon me yeh when we are together and when we are apart there is no space in our hearts I've got these feelings it's been too long since I've tried to take the time so now I'm fallin', fallin' into the sublime when you brush against a stranger and you both apologise and when you see there's something you recognise love started making sense I always make mistakes at my expense love has placed a seed and you're the sun that shines down upon me yeh when we are together and when we are apart there is no space in our hearts I've got these feelings yeh when we are together and when we are apart there is no space in our hearts I've got these feelings yeh when we are together and when we are apart there is no space in our hearts I've got these feelings yeh when we are together and when we are apart there is no space in our hearts I've got these feelings yeh when we are together and when we are apart there is no space in our hearts I've got these feelings ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:27:18 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: You brush against a stranger... Hiya Jenny, It looks like what you heard was a song called "When We Are Together" by a group called Texas. Interestingly enough, the song contains these two lines: "I'll send up all my prayers and hope they're understood" "When you brush against a stranger And you both apologise" Pretty strong Joni 'influence', I'd say. Bob NP: Santana, "Soul Sacrifice" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:32:42 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: You brush against a stranger... Cindy writes: << found this on the internet, which may be the offending song. from the rest of the lyrics, i'm thinking the line was plagarized, sho' nuff! >> But if Joni is a poet, wouldn't that be an allusion to her great poem, "Down to You," rather than plagiarism? Just wonderin' how far I can go with this poetry business, sorta like Icarus ascending . . . - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:42:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Where are you in the pictures? Hi all, I have enjoyed this thread so far..been interesting to read. While I get lots of visuals and mental image flashes from the JM stuff I'm familiar with (yes guilty as charged, early 70's stuff back) I don't ever see *myself* in there, per se..EXCEPT with a groovy little song that I've always loved so much, and which is pure candy. And that would be "Ladies of the Canyon". Dang I love that portrait! Love those women! ANyone know who they are?? Are they specific people?? Industry guys' wives/old ladies/hippy mammas perhaps? Anyway, with this song I am very much transported as myself to the interior of an alternative dwelling on a hillside, lots of natural wood furniture, lots of batik and other wall hangings..particulalrly well done tie -dye and some paisley kinds of stuff. lets see, mucho patchouli, herbal tea, the other kind of tea, you know "tea tea tea tea - to make you free" as Donovan wrote... anyway... I lurv these ladies for some reason and can perfectly well put myself right in that little scenario. OK had to share again...sorry..can't seem to stifle. Can even picture climbing banyans... :) Em reminds me like on 6 Feet Under, their mom's sister who is/was I imagine a sort of "Canyon Lady" tho severely wasted... - --- Jenny Goodspeed wrote: > I hadn't ever thought about this before, but yes, I see the same > images in my head for each song I hear. Sometimes I am there, but > mostly I'm not. It's like watching a little movie - some scenes shot > with a wide-angle, some close-up. Sometimes they grow and change > over time when I learn or hear something new. Like now when I hear > 'For the Roses' I see Joni sitting in her cabin knitting away. > > Lucy your images are so vivid and your descriptions so apt and > well-written (no surprise there). It's fascinating...I'll have to > pay more attention - the process for me (and most I suspect) is just > below the level of consciousness. > > Jenny > > > Lucy Hone wrote: > Every time I listen to certain Joni songs I get the same mental > pictures in my > head.... and I am right in them. Every time. The pictures do not > alter, and > have not done so for years. > > For Example.. Peoples Parties. > > I am sitting on the floor looking across a room. I have my back to a > chair > arm, it is a large leather chair, chunky, 1930's 40's like a big arm > chair you > find the foyer of a big hotel... and it is slightly tatty. The room > has a sort > of Edward Hopper feel to the lighting.. Somehow dense and airless. > There is a > half open window, but no breeze, and the pale cream curtains hang > down over > slatted blinds. There is a low wooden coffee table ahead of me and on > the > other side of it a long low leather sofa. I have a view of knees and > cocktail > dresses and shoes. The faces of the people are always hidden from me > but I > imagine the men as urbane, aloof, the women trying to be cool but > clamouring > for attention. Harold Pinter would frame it all in silences of the > most > meaningful type. Brittle laughter, fingers describing ideas in the > smokey air, > quietly someone is making arrangements for secret meeting, and out of > sight is > the booming slam of waves onto a sandy beach. > > It is always the same vision and sense of being elsewhere. > > Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire has me hiding under a metal fire > escape on a > wet night. There are rubbish bags and bins and there is always a > feeling of > cold that clings that makes me want to pull my coat around me. Broken > glass, > and dogs roaming and a landscape that alters only as I climb the fire > escape > and peer into the room where people are out of it, on matresses. > > "Barangrill" IS an Edward Hopper painting called Night Hawks.(i > think). The > waitress, the people staring into coffees and the solid slab of light > smacking > the pavement and the rest of the world invisible behind its > brightness... > > "Urge for Going", has me standing out on a jetty looking back towards > a town > (you would probably do best to think of New England... for the Brits > think > Western HIghlands of Scotland).. its all inlets and lakes and rocky > bits and > pine trees, and houses that seem to crowd about, and cling to the > fabric of > the land around them... > > "Carey" is a room full of light with a view over the ocean in > somewhere like > Cadiz in Spain. somewhere a bit tumbledown and a bit in need of love, > but the > views are spectacular and the air warm. > > And so it goes. Those are just a few but they always remain fixed... > > What pictorial sensations do you get from our Joni? > > I dont often post about Joni related things.... I came to this > realisation > (oddly enough) listening to "Graceland" by Paul Simon and realising > that the > opening bars of that song and the opening words remind me, every > time, of a > hill in France that over looks the Baie de Mont St Michel where, in > the low > tide mud, there are wonderful meanering streams and when the sun is > shining > its like a huge river delta.... "Shining like a national guitar". > Makes the > hairs stand up on my arms thinking about it... > > Lucy > Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:42:47 -0400 (EDT) From: notaro@stpt.usf.edu Subject: Re: You brush against a stranger... Sharp ears, Jenny. Sharp eyes, Cynthia. Joni may very well have a copyright violation case here. Are you listening, Joni???? Jerry Quoting Cynthia Vickery : > < singer - kind of an Amy Grant sound. Did she/they rip off a Joni > lyric?>> > > > found this on the internet, which may be the offending song. > from the rest of the lyrics, i'm thinking the line was > plagarized, sho' nuff! > > cindy > > ________________________________________________________________ > _ > > > Texas > > "When we are together" > > oh, I remember you said can I fight and breathe > so now I always, always hold my breath you see > you're my heaven, you're my spaceman in your shiny shiny suit > I'll send up all my prayers and hope they're understood > > love started making sense > I always make mistakes at my expense > love has placed a seed > and you're the sun that shines down upon me > > yeh when we are together > and when we are apart > there is no space in our hearts > I've got these feelings > > it's been too long since I've tried to take the time > so now I'm fallin', fallin' into the sublime > when you brush against a stranger > and you both apologise > and when you see there's something you recognise > > love started making sense > I always make mistakes at my expense > love has placed a seed > and you're the sun that shines down upon me > > yeh when we are together > and when we are apart > there is no space in our hearts > I've got these feelings > > yeh when we are together > and when we are apart > there is no space in our hearts > I've got these feelings > > yeh when we are together > and when we are apart > there is no space in our hearts > I've got these feelings > > yeh when we are together > and when we are apart > there is no space in our hearts > I've got these feelings > > yeh when we are together > and when we are apart > there is no space in our hearts > I've got these feelings ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:59:40 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Where are you in the pictures? Em asks: << ANyone know who they are?? Are they specific people?? >> Check this out: http://www.ladiesofthecanyon.com/book.htm Don't know if anyone here has read it yet. I think Kakki once said she was going to order it. - --Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:18:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Where are you in the pictures? Smurf wrote: > Check this out: > > http://www.ladiesofthecanyon.com/book.htm > > Don't know if anyone here has read it yet. I think Kakki once said > she was > going to order it. Wow! I feel I must order this! I bet its a fun read. Although, in having looked at the photo of the 5 women (these 5 in the book) I felt they were a little "mainstream" in appearance compared to what I imagine in the song. But what the heck; who knows? Thanks for that, Smurf. Not sure if I will order, but I'm thinking I will. :D Em ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:10:33 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: You brush against a stranger...and they rip off your words Well, Joni's lifted from a couple of outside sources as well, Camus & Nietschze immediately come to mind. She better just keep shushed about it. Those Burundi drummers may show up looking for some hefty royalties too. Bob NP: Santana, "Africa Bamba" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:16:24 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: You brush against a stranger...and they rip off your words Apples and oranges. There is a difference between making artistic references to someone prose, and two lines of a lyric lifted word for word without permission or license. Jerry > violation case here. Are you listening, Joni????> > > Well, Joni's lifted from a couple of outside sources as well, > Camus & Nietschze immediately come to mind. She better just > keep shushed about it. Those Burundi drummers may show up > looking for some hefty royalties too. > > Bob > > NP: Santana, "Africa Bamba" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:19:58 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Joni and Willy the Shake From a review of our Shakespeare in the Park9s Much Ado About Nothing from the St. Petersburg Times:: Relief came in two songs, with Shakespeare9s lyrics and music by Marcus Hummon, nicely performed by Messina9s answer to Joni Mitchell, an attendant named Barbara, played by Julie Rowe. Jerry np: Children and Art - Patrick9s favorite! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:42:56 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: You brush against a stranger...and they rip off your words Just for the record, I agree with you Jerry. But I did just unearth this interesting quote from a 2002 interview with Mr. Kratzmann: "She used to copy a lot of stuff," he says. "She'd see a painting of a landscape and she'd duplicate it, and, when we'd be writing poetry, she'd have a tendency to sort of, like, pick Wordsworth's Daffodils and write a poem about tulips but use the same rhyme scheme and style." Bob NP: Santana, "Wishing It Was" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:54:39 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: You brush against a stranger...and they rip off your words > Just for the record, I agree with you Jerry. But I did just > unearth this interesting quote from a 2002 interview with > Mr. Kratzmann: > > "She used to copy a lot of stuff," he says. "She'd see a painting of a > landscape and she'd duplicate it, and, when we'd be writing poetry, she'd have > a tendency to sort of, like, pick Wordsworth's Daffodils and write a poem > about tulips but use the same rhyme scheme and style." > > Bob A sign of her true genius! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:04:58 +0100 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: You brush against a stranger...and they rip off your words On 20 Apr 2004, at 18:16, Jerry Notaro wrote: > Apples and oranges. There is a difference between making artistic > references > to someone prose, and two lines of a lyric lifted word for word without > permission or license. See my other post. Texas, while a waning star, are way too famous over here to risk a blunder of that magnitude. My guess would be that permission was sought for something so obvious as that. - --Chris Marshall chrisATstryngs.com (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:17:11 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: Joni, the poet hi >>>>>> Richard wrote: >>>> I put that provocative statement out there to ask people to justify her poet status--care to elaborate? You or anyone else?<<<< well, its really quite simple. prose goes all the way to the end of the page & wraps around. poetry doesnt :-) well - im not much of a one for poetry - so im not really qualified top answer this - but heres my 2c worth. if i can read the lyrics without the music, and still really enjoy it, thens its poetry to me. & with all the time of spent at jmdl's lyrics page, (the font is bigger than on the cds) i really guess her writing qualifies as poetry. & of course, when you can take those few lines away, & sit & think about them deep down inside for a week or more. just because. well, to me thats true poetry, really doing something to & for me. ron ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:15:16 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: You brush against a stranger...and they rip off your words You wouldn't need to guess. Look on their cd insert to see if the lyrics have been printed. If so, the fact that permission was granted would have to be published with the lyrics. Jerry > On 20 Apr 2004, at 18:16, Jerry Notaro wrote: >> Apples and oranges. There is a difference between making artistic >> references >> to someone prose, and two lines of a lyric lifted word for word without >> permission or license. > > See my other post. Texas, while a waning star, are way too famous over > here > to risk a blunder of that magnitude. My guess would be that permission > was sought for something so obvious as that. > > --Chris Marshall > > chrisATstryngs.com (AIM: Chr15Marshall) > > "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" > Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" > Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:17:57 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Where are you in the pictures? Smurf said: Check this out: http://www.ladiesofthecanyon.com/book.htm Don't know if anyone here has read it yet. I think Kakki once said she was going to order it. I ordered it, and *tried* to read it. It was SO poorly written, I couldn't get through it, even though I tried several times. It is basically a personal story, not only has nothing whatsoever to do with Joni, but credits Judy Collins with writing Ladies of the Canyon. "When Judy Collins recorded the song 'Ladies of the Canyon,' most women who lived there felt like she had written about them." For what it's worth... Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:45:06 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Where are you in the pictures? > Smurf said: > Check this out: > > http://www.ladiesofthecanyon.com/book.htm > > Don't know if anyone here has read it yet. I think Kakki once said she was > going to order it. > I ordered it, and *tried* to read it. It was SO poorly written, I couldn't > get through it, even though I tried several times. It is basically a personal > story, not only has nothing whatsoever to do with Joni, but credits Judy > Collins > with writing Ladies of the Canyon. > > "When Judy Collins recorded the song 'Ladies of the Canyon,' most women who > lived there felt like she had written about them." > > For what it's worth... > > Hugs, > Ashara > I can imagine how bad the book is. The web site sucks. Not only did Judy not write Ladies of the Canyon, she never recorded it. Jerry np: Jeff Buckley - Eternal Life ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:58:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Where are you in the pictures? wow! thanks for posting that, Ashara. I'm sooo glad now I didn't order it. Sounds "not good". Maybe there's a book out there, fiction, that needs to be written about the "ladies". Guess there's no more to be had though, just the delicious little taste of the song and of course the "mind pics". Em - --- AsharaJM@aol.com wrote: > Smurf said: > Check this out: > > http://www.ladiesofthecanyon.com/book.htm > > Don't know if anyone here has read it yet. I think Kakki once said > she was > going to order it. > I ordered it, and *tried* to read it. It was SO poorly written, I > couldn't > get through it, even though I tried several times. It is basically a > personal > story, not only has nothing whatsoever to do with Joni, but credits > Judy Collins > with writing Ladies of the Canyon. > > "When Judy Collins recorded the song 'Ladies of the Canyon,' most > women who > lived there felt like she had written about them." > > For what it's worth... > > Hugs, > Ashara ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:34:02 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: [acousticharmonies] Wilson Phillips Covers CD!?!?! Hi, Bob and all of you! Please excuse me if there's already known: I'm very busy these days so I guess I'm not reading every post: > This is not a late April Fools joke. The May issue of ICE Magazine > reports that Wilson Phillips will release an all covers album > titled "California" due out May 25. The tracks are: Old Man (Neil > Young); California (Joni Mitchell); Already Gone (Eagles); Go Your > Own Way (Fleetwood Mac); Turn! Turn! Turn! (The Byrds); Monday, > Monday (Mamas & Papas); Get Together (Youngbloods); Doctor My Eyes > (Jackson Browne); Dance, Dance, Dance and In My Room (Beach Boys). Well, California! Have a Wonderful time! Emiliano ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:44:32 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: [acousticharmonies] Joni Mitchell yes, it's me again: there have been some other answers, too (one from your truly proud companion) but... - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Michael bosco" Para: Enviado: lunes, 19 de abril de 2004 20:08 Asunto: Re: [acousticharmonies] Joni Mitchell I have a couple of comments that may not address what you're asking, but respond to some things he said... I love his ENTHUSIASM! I think he captures a lot of the great things about Joni, maybe the primary thing of which is that the content of her songs are all about really wanting to be close to other people, as close as possible, to love and be loved and she never seems to lose sight of the fact that that is the most important thing there is, and she just wants you to come out and play, but no power games. I think a lot of rock writing suffers from reductionism, especially in the history-writing part. Writers are looking for pat explanations for some historical fact, to make it simple for the reader and to sound like they know what happened. For example, Bob seems to be saying that Joni's Blue album didn't get played on the radio because radio had become AOR, overly formatted, etc. Well, that is not exactly true, in my opinion -- in 1971 things were still pretty loose, with room for a lots of stuff on AM and FM. I do kinda think that women had a harder time getting airplay, though why that is, is probably more complicated than one would think. But even that is probably too simple an explanation for why she didn't have a HIT sooner. Who knows, it's a complicated thing, why millions of people suddenly start buying a record. Exposure is just one part of it. Rock writers are also too overly focussed on whether something sells (or sold), too, in my opinion. It would suffice, for me, to get a good description and analysis of the songs (Bob gets the lyrical content nicely), and some social history, and personal history, but I don't necessarilly find it that important to hear amateur theorizing about why the record did or didn't sell as well as that writer thinks it should have. Hey, Joni was making a good living and reaching tons of people at the point when she released Blue, I doubt if SHE was complaining, or felt short-changed, she was widely admired and listened to already. Just some thoughts. But I actually do agree about Joni's songs of that time, and how accomplished and wonderful they are. I wasn't a big fan until I spent some time with Blue, (and it is still my favorite) actually, so it may be a good introductory album for someone who is trying to get into her stuff... psychmike Barry Mc Cabe wrote: [...] ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #111 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)