From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #110 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, April 20 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 110 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Connecting the Dots - and Trying out new songs in concert [SCJoniGuy@] American Masters - Balanchine [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Joni loves me songs:) [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Joni loves me songs:) [Em ] Re: Next marketing gimmick for Joni ["J.David Sapp" ] It's a Small, Small World [AsharaProducLLC@aol.com] spoon and glass [Kate ] re: next marketing gimmick for Joni ["mia ortlieb" ] after reading kate's post [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: after reading kate's post [Em ] Joni & her Non-Hits [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] ya'lls pictures/jonifest/ who's guitar is this? [Em ] wtrf [Bruce Kimerer ] Re: Connecting the Dots - and Trying out new songs in concert [kate@kateb] RE: wtrf ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: ya'lls pictures/jonifest/ who's guitar is this? [Lori Fye ] RE: wtrf ["Richard Flynn" ] after reading kate's post ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Today's Library Links: April 20 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:27:35 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Connecting the Dots - and Trying out new songs in concert **my perception is that Joni's typical "art first, commerce second" approach in this area was relatively rare. Do you all agree ?** I don't find it particularly noteworthy, Bob...most artists who are in "heavy growth mode" as Joni was at that time will keep their creative juices flowing and will use the road to try out and test new material. I would venture to say that of the many concerts I've attended, about half featured a comment by the artist saying that they were going to play some new songs. Not that they were Joni-quality songs, mind you, but new nonetheless. I think it would be a perk of being on tour that you get to see some honest response to work that hasn't been previously heard. Plus, Joni's always been more excited about what was on the horizon for her, not what was behind her, so she would probably have a penchant for playing new stuff moreso than the average artist. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:11:54 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: American Masters - Balanchine I hope you all getting a chance to watch the 3other2 episodes of the American Masters series on PBS. Last night was one of my favorite artistic geniuses, and the greatest choreographer of all time, George Balanchine. Like Joni, he loved cats, and Stravinsky, It was the best film on him I have seen since Dancing for Mr. B. He said something so poignant: We do not create. God creates. We merely assemble; and make the right choices; and work very hard. Jerry np: Jimmy Scott - At Last ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:16:56 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Joni loves me songs:) > Nuriel wants to know: > >> What song makes you feel that Joni loves you? I For me it has always been Woodstock. Jerry np: Betty Buckley - Infinite Joy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:15:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Joni loves me songs:) - --- Jerry Notaro wrote: > I > For me it has always been Woodstock. Hi Jerry, I thought and thought about this one, and "Woodstock" was the only one I could come up with too. If she would just at least confer "child of god" status upon me I would be more than grateful. Because my great impression is she only has any real use for men. ::shrug:: dunno if that's really so... Em ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:02:52 -0500 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: Re: Next marketing gimmick for Joni For the record Joni is listed as the producer for Wild Things - she and Klein became romantically involved during the recording of the album. She had obviously chosen a new direction for that project because she replaced a yet still living Jaco with Klein. Boggles the mind. peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:03:10 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Next marketing gimmick for Joni **Great song, but putting it on Hits felt like a slap in my face for some reason -- maybe because it hadn't been a true "hit" for Joni and adding it to the disc WAS just a gimmick.** It would have been a much better idea for Joni to assemble & release an "Anthology" or better yet a boxset like her buddies CSNY did. I can understand her point in not wanting to negatively impact sales of her early albums, and by the same token I can understand Reprise wanting a 'collection' type release. Joni does have lots of fans like us who will seek out all of her releases, but there are also "fringe" fans who grew up with Joni's songs on the radio and would not buy 5-6 cd's of hers but would buy a CD that compiles her best-known works, even if our familiarity with the song is through another singer. To that end, 'Hits' does a good job, and like you say, it is to date the only commercial release of Urge For Going on CD, to entice the completists, just as the Geffen release was lightly peppered with 3 bonus tracks. (Albeit a much pricier pepper!) And of course, using the term "hits" when discussing Joni's work is dubious at best, and she's the first to admit it. While she got her fair share of airplay, she had a grand total of ONE single to break Billboard's top 20. So a collection of Joni's "true hits" would be nothing more than a cd-single of "Help Me", unless you stretch the definitions which she & Reprise did. Her albums have fared much better, as well they should as she is an album artist rather than a singles artist. Furthermore, Joni has more or less followed her own direction rather than being market-driven, so the hits eluded her not because of the quality of her work, but rather due to the quality (or lack thereof) of the markets she was working in. As for BSN & T'log diluting her career catalogue, it's all opinion. In mine, her catalogue would be stronger without them, but I'm not one of those that would pay to hear her sing the phonebook or anything like that. I think she established extremely high parameters for her work and then lowered that bar significantly with these last two. Bob NP: Linda Ronstadt, "Willin'" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:12:27 -0400 From: "jlobello" Subject: Leaving for now Les and everyone I will be moving to Bellingham, WA on April 22nd. So, I'm temporarily dropping out of the group until I get settled in my new home. Individuals can contact me at my hotmail address: jonlobello@hotmail.com. Until later, Jono ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:25:18 EDT From: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com Subject: It's a Small, Small World Saturday morning, the phone rang and it was Rachel's mom saying that she and Rachel were at the Topsfield high school for a band competition! Of all places in the world, I could not believe they were in Topsfield!! So, I met them later on that night for a few hours, and it was SO great to catch up with them. They both looked great, and it was such a pleasant surprise to have them in my neck of the woods all the way from Hamilton, Ontario. They assured me that the family would be at Jonifest this year. So, those of you that might need some violin accompaniment might want to start sending music her way. YAY!! It's a small world indeed. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:36:22 -0500 From: Kate Subject: spoon and glass > Rattle rattle rattle > In the spoon and the glass I am notorious for not really listening to lyrics all the way through a song. I hear the harmonies, the melodies, the beat, and half the time don't have a clue what a song is actually *about*. When I heard spoon and glass, I visualized spoons tinkling inside glasses at a wedding -- you know, where the guests pester the bride and groom overly much to get up and kiss? I was thinking about how Joni is so pissed off at the record companies, and wondering why, when everyone and their duck these days can make a CD for about $10,000, why she doesn't just make one at home in her own studio? The 10,000 bucks should be no problem for her, and she's got the market to sell them and make her money back, and can you imagine being a creator of her ilk and having the songs just stop coming because you say so? I can't. I mean, can she help expressing herself in this way? I hope not. So my fingers are crossed that she records an unplugged version of her new stuff at home, by herself. Or something even better. I'd be first in line to purchase. Kate (du Nord) "Limitless like the ocean are your excellent qualities." -- Dalai Lama ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:45:56 -0500 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: next marketing gimmick for Joni <> I don't know about Joni or anyone else for that matter, but I would be completely THRILLED to watch Van Gogh paint "Starry Night" over and over again! Mia _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar  get it now! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:56:25 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: Joni loves me songs:) hi >>>>nuriel wrote >>>>>> Love to hear your 'Joni loves me' song/s. mmm, love this question. i have three songs & theres no way i can possibly choose between them: down to you strange boy god must be a boogie man ron np - mary gauthier - i drink ( i know the name of this one!!!!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:46:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: after reading kate's post Dear Kate and everyone, Kate - i deleted your post by mistake, but i realy liked the part where you talked about Joni quitting music. It made me think again about the whole thing. Well, i think Joni is hiding something. All those reasone she gives for her drive to quit, seem to as me as an excuse for something much deeper than "The biz sucks and i'm ashamed to be a part of it". First of all, maybe she has started her work in music with a plan and now "The whole thing's gotten" and her task has reached it's ending. Like a writer of a book, she made it to the last chapter. But to be honest with you, i don't think she has nothing more to say. I think it's what she HAS to say that she doesn't want to turn into songs. I see her smiling on photos. Always happy and proud with a big "I'm just fine" written all over her face. I don't buy it. I think that behind that "Joni power", lies a woman who looks at the future a bit scared. I feel that she's a bit afraid to write songs about living without love, aging parents, funerals, her daughter's secrets, her hate towards this mad world, and the loss of dreams. Dylan isn't afraid at all to write and sing about the darkness that awaits him, but i think Joni does. "I don't want to talk about it" as the song goes. I'm sure that if Joni wouldv'e died, God parish the thoguht, us joniphiles would've wondered why isn't she writing songs about what it feels like to be stuck in a grave, and how does she feel in heaven, and what song of hers God likes the most. And i think she knows that, and she's had enough of sharing her life with her fans. Again, not because she's got nothing to say about life, but maybe this Dylan lyric "It's not dark yet but it's getting there" is what she can't deal with. Just some thoghts, nothing more... Love, Nuriel Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:34:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: after reading kate's post - --- Nuriel Tobias wrote: > But to be honest with you, i don't think she has nothing more to say. > I think it's what she HAS to say that she doesn't want to turn into > songs. She's probably just not in the mood. She doesn't "need" to do it. And If a person doesn't "need" to do something, why do it? For the discipline??...nah... that gets old if you don't need the $$$. Artists do their thing because they need to, on some level. I'm betting JM just is not compelled at this point in time to write songs, perform them, figure out how to arrange them, etc. Probably just doesn't seem fun or particularly fascinating. > Dylan isn't afraid at all to write and sing about the darkness that > awaits him, but i think Joni does ...snip......but maybe this Dylan lyric "It's not dark yet but it's getting > there" is what she can't deal with. Dylan remains, tho a "master", also quite the "journeyman". He is at the root a rock and roller. Saw him onstage with the Dead fairly recently...he was happy as the proverbial pig in shite just back in a corner playing some kind of keyboard. He was being the(a) keyboard guy! He was being Pigpen, Godchaux, Hornsby! (except they had "his" volume way down I think, lol) And not even doing "his" stuff! And he didn't need to be there except he is a minstrel boy to the end. Maybe if Dylan were a better painter, bless his heart, we'd lose him too. Em < Subject: ya'lls pictures/jonifest/ who's guitar is this? http://www.hatstand.org/gallery/album26/FR_1000PM_Claud9_detail_Roll_E_f7 Who is this person?? This is exactly like my guitar except mine has double "diagonal slash" inlays on the neck..same old-style Gibson shape tho..kewlest! Mine's a '59 - same as me. I'm really enjoying seeing all these pics. You all are just, hmm, how can I put this ..... GLOWING!!!!!!! and not in a nuclear sense! like as in the "shiny happy people" sense. Wish I could come this summer. Not sure I'd fit in but *maybe* if I behave myself. Great pics! Em ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:15:58 -0400 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: wtrf I must say that WTRF is a real nice record. Have been listening to it after a long time. And enjoying it a lot. To me, it's Joni's let's have fun rockn roll album, without the sonic and lyrical baggage of DED & CMIARS. All the songs have a light production touch, not too heavy, not too spare. Her voice is great. And the lead off track is so strong that it gives emotional weight to the whole endeavor. All in all, it sounds like an inevitable step after DJRD and M. Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 15:40:51 -0700 (PDT) From: kate@katebennett.com Subject: Re: Connecting the Dots - and Trying out new songs in concert lama wrote: "Some time in May 67 Joni was at The Other Side in Fayetteville, NC USA, according to Simon. She met that unknown upstart, James Taylor, in March 1969. " i remember listening lots to james in the summer of 69... on cape cod... maybe he was known in that part of the world but not in the rest yet? bobsart> I have the impression that artists often play material from their latest releases in concert - but usually after their release. conventional wisdom is to play the songs in concert to hone them before recording, but not everyone works that way... however touring is to promote the release of the cd so that is why the artist plays the recently recorded songs then... of course joni often did not tour after recording & would go off to greec to write or to vancouver... which tells me that is the best part of the thing for her, the writing... not the performing... & she has said as much many times... writing like painting is a completely solitary venture... scorpio's are very solitary creatures in my experience... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:43:16 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: wtrf I'm happy to hear this--while there are parts of WTRF that sound cheesy, it's a pretty listenable album: "Moon at the Window" "Chinese Cafe" "You Dream Flat Tires." I even like the much maligned "Underneath the Streetlight" and "Solid Love." On the other hand, I don't much like "Man to Man" or "Ladies' Man" and I could take or leave the I Corinthians 13 rewrite--no prejudice against Biblical content--I like the Job piece (though not the Travelogue version). Speaking of Joni adaptations of other people's texts--and you gotta admit she has brass----well, nerve, anyway to take on some of the greatest poetry of the ages: Book of Job, Yeats's "The Second Coming"--which brings me to what I was gonna say. A couple of weeks back on another listserv I belong to-- the UB Poetics list someone sent the text of the Yeats poem--only it was Joni's lyrics. I do have to say that while it makes a pretty good song, the adaptation suffers as poetry compared to the real poem. This raises the question of, "is Joni a poet"? I don't think so, music is too integral to her works of art (she is an artist) and also a lonely painter who lives in a box of paint. On the other hand I think she's a genius songwriter but not a genius painter. Sorry--many random thoughts here. Richard - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Kimerer Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 6:16 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: wtrf I must say that WTRF is a real nice record. Have been listening to it after a long time. And enjoying it a lot. To me, it's Joni's let's have fun rockn roll album, without the sonic and lyrical baggage of DED & CMIARS. All the songs have a light production touch, not too heavy, not too spare. Her voice is great. And the lead off track is so strong that it gives emotional weight to the whole endeavor. All in all, it sounds like an inevitable step after DJRD and M. Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:39:26 -0700 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: ya'lls pictures/jonifest/ who's guitar is this? > http://www.hatstand.org/gallery/album26/FR_1000PM_Claud9_detail_Roll_E_f7 > > Who is this person?? This is exactly like my guitar except mine has > double "diagonal slash" inlays on the neck..same old-style Gibson shape > tho..kewlest! Mine's a '59 - same as me. That's Claudia, who lives just up the road a piece from me. Dare I say that YOU HAVEN'T LIVED until you've heard Claudia (aka Claud9) perform "Conversation"?! Really Em, you just can't imagine. > I'm really enjoying seeing all these pics. > You all are just, hmm, how can I put this ..... GLOWING!!!!!!! and not > in a nuclear sense! > like as in the "shiny happy people" sense. Well, we're also a family -- although not in the nuclear sense! : ) And yeah, Jonifest will make ya glow. "We are stardust, we are golden ..." Oh and by the way, the town of Woodstock is very near Oliverea. > Wish I could come this summer. Not sure I'd fit in but *maybe* if I > behave myself. You really need to come to Fest, Em. You will not regret it. Ask Hell or Lucy or Ron, who have come from New Zealand, England, and South Africa -- just for starters, because there are others who have traveled many miles to be there too. Ask them if it's not worth every penny spent to get there. As for fitting in, Em -- there's always the "lez cabin" and its variety of occupants. As of right now I'm planning to ride my bike. So there. What else do you need to have to "fit in?" Besides, sleep isn't required (and good luck getting any sleep, anyway.) And by all means, bring your guitar! > Great pics! Aren't they? You should be in this year's photos, I say! : ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:52:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: ya'lls pictures/jonifest/ who's guitar is this? Kewlest Lori! thanks for the info! Hi there Claudia! ....wish I could make it. Laid it on my other half today tho, and it was met with frowns. So thats not optimal. Maybe if you would be so kind as to kidnap me! But we're in a state of flux, so let's see. :) Em - --- Lori Fye wrote: > That's Claudia, who lives just up the road a piece from me. Dare I > say that YOU > HAVEN'T LIVED until you've heard Claudia (aka Claud9) perform > "Conversation"?! > Really Em, you just can't imagine...snip.... ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:02:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: RE: wtrf Richard Flynn wrote: "This raises the question of, "is Joni a poet"? I don't think so" But i do!:) Love, Nuriel Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:30:47 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: wtrf But Nuriel, I pretty much qualified that by implyig that she is a port as far as rock 'n' roll lyricists go. I put that provocative statement out there to ask people to justify her poet status--care to elaborate? You or anyone else? examples please. . . and of course, your definition of what constitutes "poetry." - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Nuriel Tobias Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 9:03 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: wtrf Richard Flynn wrote: "This raises the question of, "is Joni a poet"? I don't think so" But i do!:) Love, Nuriel Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:29:36 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: after reading kate's post I think you have it backwards, Nuriel. She's not hiding now; she was hiding then. She kept a secret for years (the daughter she gave up for adoption, Kelly / Kilauren). By way of compensating for that secret, she became the "amazingly open" woman we *thought* we knew. Now that she's reunited with her daughter, she doesn't need to be a "confessional songwriter" anymore. She doesn't need to capsulize her pain and love in Art. It lives everyday. If ever something painful was going to drive her to write songs (for us I mean), it would have been 911. I think she got lots of energy from that. It shows in the many paintings in the TRAVELOGUE set. She's done, but she's done plenty. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:11:26 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: April 20 On April 20 the following articles were published: 1968: "A Hit for Joni Mitchell, A Miss for Lightfoot" - Toronto Daily Star (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=786 1968: "Gentle Joni of the Mythical Mood in Folk-Rock" - Toronto Globe and Mail (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=764 1968: "The Way of Joni" - Toronto Daily Star (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=769 1969: "In Her House, Love" - New York Times (Interview, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=36 1998: "GLAAD Media Awards a Hit Coast To Coast" - GLAAD website (News Item, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=113 2000: "'N Sync stays on top" - Reuters/Variety (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=500 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #110 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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