From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #97 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, April 7 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 097 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Spring Greetins ["tantra-apso" ] Re: images of a sunny sunday [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: hello, newbie intro [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: images of a sunny sunday [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: RS list [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: hello, newbie intro/Lori! [Em ] re: hello, newbie intro [Garret ] re: Krall's new baby - fecking brilliant [Garret ] Re: hello, newbie intro [Em ] Re: images of a sunny sunday [magsnbrei ] Re: Krall's new baby - fecking brilliant [Ken ] Re: Cute article on Joni, Joan & Judy [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: RS list =?ISO-8859-1?B?oCCgIKBOSkM=?= [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: hello, newbie intro - DJRD and recommendations [Lori Fye ] trouble-shooting [Jennifer Faulkner ] Sunny Sunday ["c Karma" ] Re: DJRD and recommendations [Smurfycopy@aol.com] Re: DJRD and recommendations [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: DJRD and recommendations [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: DJRD and recommendations [Lori Fye ] RE: DJRD and recommendations ["Richard Flynn" ] RE: DJRD and recommendations [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: DJRD and recommendations [Lori Fye ] Re: images of a sunny sunday ["amelio747" ] Re: R Stone blows it with Joni again [Warrenkeith91354@aol.com] DJRD again [Em ] DJRD -- favorites? [Lori Fye ] Joni's nude photo on FTR and the "kiss my ass" syndrom [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Joni's nude photo on FTR and the "kiss my ass" syndrom [Em ] Joni's nude photo on FTR and the "kiss my ass" syndrom [TinkersOwn@aol.co] Re: Joni's nude photo on FTR and the "kiss my ass" syndrome ["Lori Fye" <] Re: DJRD -- favorites? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: images of a sunny sunday & Tennessee Williams/imagery in THOSL and more! [SCJoniGuy@ao] Subject: Re: hello, newbie intro ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Spring Greetins Good to see you posting again. > Other than these depths I am fine and still open to a lover good for you! Sharing is wonderful - Have a great > day! and you > bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:16:27 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: images of a sunny sunday **all in all, one very powerful song, no matter how you look at it. It sure is, Mags...thanks for sharing your thoughts. I think this is probably one of those Joni songs that we can easily place ourselves into, having been in any situation that we wanted out of. I've always thought of shotting the streetlight as a crutch, an excuse. She's not strong enough to leave on her own, so she invents something so that she can convince herself that she's not staying because of her own weakness but rather because she missed the streetlight again. Of course, even if she's as bad a shot as I am (I assume I am, I've never shot a gun) one day she's gonna hit that light...then what will she do? Do you think she'll leave? I don't. I think she'll say "2 out of 3" or some such. Bob NP: The Vines ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:19:29 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: hello, newbie intro Welcome Em - I thought at first that you were an Eminem fan. Yes, we have them here, myself included. Good luck in discovering post-MOA (Miles Of Aisles) Joni. It's actually when she did her best work. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:21:48 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: images of a sunny sunday Bob wrote: <> Yes, I have always thought this as well. <> Again, my thoughts exactly. It's such a sad song. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:32:26 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: RS list **On the other hand, the list was probably compiled by an ad hoc group and not by the editors of RS. Well, it is a pretty small group. It includes some RS guys (Kurt Loder, Jann Wenner, Greil Marcus, James Henke, David Fricke, others), some musicians (Keith Richards, Bruce Springsteen, Stephen Stills, Jackson Browne, others), some Music Execs (Rick Rubin, David Geffen, Jerry Wexler, Seymour Stein, others) and some non-music celebs as well (Quentin Tarantino). Probably about 20% have direct affiliation with RS. Of the 55 voters, only TWO...TWO! are women (Lucinda Williams & Chrissie Hynde), both of whom hold Joni in VERY high regard. Like my wife teaches in her statistics classes, this kind of bias is going to produce some very skewed results. RS, like American politics, likes to have women around but doesn't appreciate them in decision-making settings. That being said, it's really a shame that RS f*cked up and made such an incredible ommission. I started reading it today, and the pieces (in spite of what I said yesterday) are very enjoyable, because it's not the usual stuff. You get Elvis Costello writing about The Beatles, Robbie Robertson writing about Dylan, Van Morrison writing about Ray Charles. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 04:50:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: hello, newbie intro/Lori! - --- Lori Fye wrote: > Since I sorta got you into this, Em, let me be one of the first to > say > HELLO! and welcome home! You'll fit right in here! Hey good morning Lori and thanks for the welcome and for bringing me here. > Was Miles of Aisles your last JM album? Sounds like you've got LOTS > of catching up to do! I seem to have one later one too, cuz I saw the spine of it among my records last night. Whichever has "Dreamland" on it. Went out and bought it specifically to have Joni's version too, having fallen in love with McGuinn's version. Not sure what album it is, gotta look...the bottom 2/3 or so of the spine is blue and the top is like an Indian red. (hate to call the color that, but its an oil paint color - not so PC huh?) I'm a total folkie at heart, so I am way waaaaaaaaay attracted to her early all acoustic pre-jazz albums. > : ) Meanwhile, tell us more -- how did you discover Joni? I *think* I was aware of her from the early 70's when I was listening to lots of Joan and Judy, lol, guess I don't need to use last names around this place.. and was aware of JM, but my (at the time) bubble gum-wanting little brain couldn't latch onto the art, and sometimes difficult listening of JM's stuff (i.e. it had an edge I couldn't handle at that early age). Then in the late 70's I met a friend, a singer, who can actually sing JM's stuff really WELL!!!! and so I was quite "dipped" in that material for several years. I can just hear her sing "scum brown fever in the bathroom bowl" while people in the club are eating nachos, or however that lyric goes...lol!!!!!! you guys please forgive me..not knowing my stuff just right. I can remember going to my friend's gigs and being amazed at the vocal range you need to render "Carey" successfully. And how ridiculous it sounds if I try to do it! And how much fun it is to play that on the guitar! Anyway, I'm in a good music listening place in my life again, as I've started painting again and thats the best "headspace" for me for listening to music. So maybe this afternoon, I'll tweeze that album out of the stacks, the one with the red on top and blue lower portion and see which one it actually is, and play the whole thing. Give the turntable a workout. In the meantime Lori (or anyone), if you'd like to recommend a new work by Joni, I'd be happy to give a listen. I'm also now more in a place where I *could* listen to jazz. Good painting music sometimes. And sometime, I'd like to hear how YOU, Lori, discovered Joni? Happy Wednesday all. :) Em ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 13:27:45 +0100 From: Garret Subject: re: hello, newbie intro Hi there aunty Em, great to have yo on board! I hope it's as much fun for you as it is for me! One of my favourite things is the constant direction to new music (tip of the hat to Ashara's recent post!! well said lady, and i hope you too are well). I love the way you word your idea of the tree of music related to CSNY. It is *exactly* what i have in my head but have trouble converting to words. CSNY are not my reference point; this would be Joni and Patti Smith (any feelings, eh?;-) Between them they have directed me towards so much of what i now love, including Neil Young - am working slowly towards CSNY:-) again, welcome to the list! GARRET np- Patti Smith, Gandhi, live Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:19:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: hello, newbie intro Hi folks, am finally properly subscribed it would appear. Glad to be among you all! Read some in the archives and, especially musically, you all seem to have it going on really right up my alley. Anyway I got here via lister Lori Fye, (HI LORI!) who I know through a list for wayward women who ride motorcycles. My musical heart seems to beat louder when its around music from the "cusp" of 69-70, not sure why. I'm 44 so I was like 10 then. My first "real" album was the play soundtrack to "HAIR", whatta trip, parents took it *away* for a few years then I stole it back. My second real album was a radio station only live album of CSNY - and I've never again heard those versions of the songs. "Ohio" was on it. Its long gone. My main lyrical "heart" is given to Mr. Bob Dylan, and e'er more shall. He's just tattoed on my brain. I should fess up and say I don't really know what JM is up to these days...her stuff up to about "Miles of Isles" is also mother's milk to me though. Anyone you could possibly include in the "tree" of music related to anything CSNY (which is a HUGE tree with magnificent roots, no?) is mother's milk for me. You can even connect, like Gram Parsons, and therfore Emmylou Harris and it just grows outward and outward. In fact, just today the UPS guy dropped off my new "White Falcon" t-shirt from Gretschgear.com. ;) Anyway, just saying hi, and thanks Lori, for telling me about this place. Thanks for letting me hang out. Aunty Em ps when you get an email how do you reply back to the list?? when I hit "reply" it was gonna reply just to the poster, and not to the list - so I had to copy and paste the list email in the "TO" area. Is that normal?? ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 13:37:40 +0100 From: Garret Subject: re: Krall's new baby - fecking brilliant Diana Krall is an odd one for me. Sometimes she appeals to me a lot, but other times she sounds pretty mediocre. I have always felt that she just needs to let loose and all that. Is this the one? I read a quick review in Time Out london. They said something along the lines of "diana krall is dropping that discomfort she seems to exhibit on previous albums, including the slutty dresses she wears on the covers. BLAH BLAH BLAH the heart of the album are the six songs she co-wrote with Elvis Costello. she does justice to her odd choice of covers (tom waits, joni mitchell etc)" totally paraphrased from a vague memory. GARRET Np- Gillian Welch, Time (the revelator) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:59:48 -0400 From: "michael o'malley" Subject: Krall's new baby - fecking brilliant Just laying back and listening to Krall's new CD, The Girl in the Other Room, on CBC radio 2 tonight, what can I say ? This CD has the guts we've been waiting for from Diana. Great bluesy feel to the piano and voice. The new compositions are great, as are the Costello covers. Of course, she just about outdoes Joni on Black Crow. Funny how the piano and guitar retains an 80's feel on this tune. Diana mentioed Joni at least two times in the interview - - -placing her in the pantheon of the greats - which, of course, we've known all along :- ) Michael in Quebec - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 06:11:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: hello, newbie intro - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > Welcome Em - I thought at first that you were an Eminem fan. Yes, we > have > them here, myself included. Hi Bob, thanks for the welcome! hmm Eminem, nah, weirdly tho, I like Kid Rock. ::shrug:: go figure. I know some good people like Eminem so there must be something "to it". Although I think as a gay person, I was *supposed* to be real offended by something he sang?? dunno what it was.... > Good luck in discovering post-MOA (Miles Of Aisles) Joni. It's > actually when > she did her best work. Well alrighty then! I actually adore having backlogs of new music to discover; thanks for the tip. :) Em ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 06:46:37 -0700 (PDT) From: magsnbrei Subject: Re: images of a sunny sunday **all in all, one very powerful song, no matter how you look at it. to my above quote my bro Bob replied with: It sure is, Mags...thanks for sharing your thoughts. I think this is probably one of those Joni songs that we can easily place ourselves into, having been in any situation that we wanted out of. I've always thought of shotting the streetlight as a crutch, an excuse. She's not strong enough to leave on her own, so she invents something so that she can convince herself that she's not staying because of her own weakness but rather because she missed the streetlight again. I hear ya bro. I see the streetlight scenario like this, not so much a crutch, more like a focal point. Perhaps she's got this mantra going on inside her blurry vision (not being 'able' to leave) so it's a bull's eye or a street light or whatever she fixes her temporary focus on. The mantra that might go over and over again something like this ...gathering courage like dust in the doorway, it piles up at her feet. She might get psyched up when she sees her target right there in front of her and think (again and again in the same situation) to herself okay .. today's the day...if I hit this target, I'll leave. again, a powerful song. Of course, even if she's as bad a shot as I am (I assume I am, I've never shot a gun) one day she's gonna hit that light...then what will she do? Do you think she'll leave? I don't. I think she'll say "2 out of 3" or some such. good question.! I'd like to say yes in the hope that she will..but you know how it goes. It ain't easy babe. thanks for the reply. Joni encourages us to tell her what a song means to us, rather than giving her impressions. Mags np: calling all angels (on xpn) ***** your absence has gone through me like thread through a needle everything i do is stitched with its colour. w.s.merwin Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:00:22 -0400 From: Ken Subject: Re: Krall's new baby - fecking brilliant Just finished listening to D.K.'s new one. Had to hear it on tape as I couldn't listen last night. Some great songs on this CD. I loved Resolution Bay and Black Crow and the bluesy Girl In The Other Room. This is the first time that Krall has written lyrics as near as I can tell and she has done a fine job. What a fine day for music. New Diana Krall on tape this morning and Sarah Hammer on TV this afternoon. Ken michael o'malley wrote: >Just laying back and listening to Krall's new CD, The Girl in the Other Room, >on CBC radio 2 tonight, what can I say ? This CD has the guts we've been >waiting for from Diana. Great bluesy feel to the piano and voice. The new >compositions are great, as are the Costello covers. Of course, she just about >outdoes Joni on Black Crow. Funny how the piano and guitar retains an 80's >feel on this tune. Diana mentioed Joni at least two times in the interview >-placing her in the pantheon of the greats - which, of course, we've known all >along :- ) > >Michael in Quebec ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:18:10 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Cute article on Joni, Joan & Judy That *was* a really cute article, Bryan, thanks for sharing it! Hugs, Ashara, ducking from the Me Too police ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:37:25 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: RS list =?ISO-8859-1?B?oCCgIKBOSkM=?= **Hi, was wondering, where I could find this list? is it on the web somewhere? Em, here is the list of "Immortals" along with the pieces written about each one: http://www.rollingstone.com/features/coverstory/featuregen.asp?pid=2846 I don't see that they disclose the panel who determined the selections, though...it's listed in the magazine. And you just THOUGHT you were going to get some work done. ;~) Bob NP: Dark One Lite, "American Girls" (from the Counting Crows Tribute that I bought to get a BYT cover!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:38:05 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: hello, newbie intro - DJRD and recommendations Em wrote, of Joni's albums: > I seem to have one later one too, cuz I saw the spine of it among my > records last night. Whichever has "Dreamland" on it. Went out and > bought it specifically to have Joni's version too, having fallen in > love with McGuinn's version. Not sure what album it is, gotta > look...the bottom 2/3 or so of the spine is blue and the top is like an > Indian red. (hate to call the color that, but its an oil paint color - > not so PC huh?) I'm a total folkie at heart, so I am way waaaaaaaaay > attracted to her early all acoustic pre-jazz albums. I remember now that we talked about this briefly in Arizona ... you're talking about Don Juan's Reckless Daughter (aka DJRD around here). Did you know that Joni is ALL of the characters on the cover? Yep, including the pimp-lookin' dude on the front! : ) > In the meantime Lori (or anyone), if you'd like to recommend a new work > by Joni, I'd be happy to give a listen. Personally I'd recommend Hejira, but that's probably because it's my favorite album by anyone (at least for the last 24 years). > I'm also now more in a place where I *could* listen to jazz. Good painting > music sometimes. I udderly love that you paint, Em! ; ) And hey, have you checked out the screensaver of Joni's paintings, assembled by Ken?* See "Shiny Toys" in the frame of the JMDL home page. Very cool! Also, since you play guitar, check out the tablature database, maintained by Sue, Marian, and Howard*, also accessed via the frame on the home page. Makes me want to haul out my own pawn shop special and learn a few tunes. > And sometime, I'd like to hear how YOU, Lori, discovered Joni? You shall, at some point. It's a story that begins with Hejira (my own, and Joni's album) in 1977, when I was 19 ... more on that another time. Happy Wednesday indeed! Lori *If I've credited anyone incorrectly -- or omitted a credit -- please forgive me! I can't access JMDL.com at the moment for some reason. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:50:07 -0300 From: "Caio Nehring" Subject: Re: RS list And all the variations over the same theme... I may b full of sh*t, but Joni, all by herself with an accoustic guitar in the middle of any stage, it's worth "at least" a third of this RS list. Full Stop. caio NP Sam Roberts - My love is freeing From: To: ; Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 8:32 AM Subject: Re: RS list > **On the other hand, the list was probably compiled by an ad hoc group and > not by > the editors of RS. > > > Well, it is a pretty small group. It includes some RS guys (Kurt Loder, Jann > Wenner, Greil Marcus, James Henke, David Fricke, others), some musicians > (Keith Richards, Bruce Springsteen, Stephen Stills, Jackson Browne, others), some > Music Execs (Rick Rubin, David Geffen, Jerry Wexler, Seymour Stein, others) and > some non-music celebs as well (Quentin Tarantino). > > Probably about 20% have direct affiliation with RS. Of the 55 voters, only > TWO...TWO! are women (Lucinda Williams & Chrissie Hynde), both of whom hold Joni > in VERY high regard. Like my wife teaches in her statistics classes, this > kind of bias is going to produce some very skewed results. RS, like American > politics, likes to have women around but doesn't appreciate them in > decision-making settings. > > That being said, it's really a shame that RS f*cked up and made such an > incredible ommission. I started reading it today, and the pieces (in spite of what > I said yesterday) are very enjoyable, because it's not the usual stuff. You > get Elvis Costello writing about The Beatles, Robbie Robertson writing about > Dylan, Van Morrison writing about Ray Charles. > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:01:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Jennifer Faulkner Subject: trouble-shooting Hello people, What do y'all mean by trouble-shooting? I thought only computers did that! Also, LAURA and anyone else, how do you learn to multi-task?! Thanks, Jen Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:36:31 +0000 From: "c Karma" Subject: Sunny Sunday "Sunny Sunday" for me, has always been one of those songs that drags others along for companionship. Among the companions I detect are 1."Tea Leaf Prophecy" which parallels "she said she's leaving here but she don't go" to "The streetlight's still burning ...she always misses. But the day she hits that's the day she'll leave, that one little victory that's all she needs." and 2. "Harry's House/Centerpiece". Joni seems to be denying it, but I think some of the song's strength lies in more autobiography within. Perhaps it is painful when ennui and a hangover become indistinguishable. CC "I swear on the streetlight on the corner shoving back the shadows." -- JM _________________________________________________________________ Free up your inbox with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! Multiple plans available. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=hotmail/es2&ST=1/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:42:29 EDT From: Smurfycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: DJRD and recommendations Lori writes: << Did you know that Joni is ALL of the characters on the cover? Yep, including the pimp-lookin' dude on the front! : ) >> But she's not the young boy, is she? Who is he? Jody told me there was a discussion years ago about the boy's identity. Anyone remember? By the way, how's this for a personal Joni bombshell . . . When Jody and I went to visit MG in NJ in February, Jody played DJRD in the car and I realized I had never heard it! Some completist, huh? I have since heard it all and I love it love it love it. Whenever there was discussion about DJRD here, I always thought that I owned it but that it was one of the 80s Joni efforts that I had once listened to and put away forever. What an idiot! - --Smurf, enjoying the discovery of a "new" Joni many years after the fact ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:02:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: DJRD and recommendations Smurf, I just discovered DJRD this January and really love it too - had it on vinyl for years but never listened to it. Why? I tell myself it's because I had to wait until I reached a certain level of maturity in order to appreciate it (lie). The bigger sin was never giving HOSL a listen until last summer! Years wasted! Now it sits next to Hejira, topping my list of recordings I can't live without. Jenny Smurfycopy@aol.com wrote: Lori writes: << Did you know that Joni is ALL of the characters on the cover? Yep, including the pimp-lookin' dude on the front! : ) >> But she's not the young boy, is she? Who is he? Jody told me there was a discussion years ago about the boy's identity. Anyone remember? By the way, how's this for a personal Joni bombshell . . . When Jody and I went to visit MG in NJ in February, Jody played DJRD in the car and I realized I had never heard it! Some completist, huh? I have since heard it all and I love it love it love it. Whenever there was discussion about DJRD here, I always thought that I owned it but that it was one of the 80s Joni efforts that I had once listened to and put away forever. What an idiot! - --Smurf, enjoying the discovery of a "new" Joni many years after the fact Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 13:09:32 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: DJRD and recommendations Subject: Re: DJRD and recommendations > Whenever there was discussion about DJRD here, I always thought that I owned > it but that it was one of the 80s Joni efforts that I had once listened to > and put away forever. What an idiot! The thing is, Smurf, DJRD isn't an 80s effort -- it was released in 1977, and it was the album that followed Hejira. Even Mingus counts as a 70s album, as it was released in 1979. I can still remember first hearing DJRD when I was living on the borders of North Dakota, Montana, and Canada (ya wanna see Paprika Plains, go there!). I don't recall if my first listen was in my room in the "barracks," or at Buck's rental house in Westby, MT, but I remember that I loved it right away. Buck, otoh, was generally disappointed. A few years ago, 1999 I guess, I was listening to DJRD on CD at work. One of the guys in the office, a dyed-in-the-wool rancher 50-something rancher named Lyles Houston, remarked how much he liked it and asked if it was a new Joni album. He was AMAZED to learn that it was 22 years old already! It's a timeless album, as are HOSL, Hejira, and well ... you know there may be more. : ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:46:37 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: DJRD and recommendations Lori & Co., You're gonna get me to listen to DJRD again, though I still only have it on vinyl. I remember liking it a great deal, but thinking that there was too little on each side, so one had to get up often to turn the records over. I guess I should get the CD, eh? Maybe it is timeless--I certainly agree with you about HOSL & Hejira. Since I grew up in Washington and lived there at the time, "Otis and Marlena" was always interesting to me. But--I'm workng from memory here--isn't this the lp with "Silky Veils of Ardor" on it? I *love* it when Joni rewrites traditional folk songs and recasts them in sonic contexts that aren't "folk." This and her rewriting of Corrina, "A Bird That Whistles" are very interesting--in musical contexts that are pretty far remove from folk music. Does anyone have any thoughts about the pull of the folk revival on Joni's work, even as she resists being categorized as a folksinger? I mean she does these folk songs at the height of jazz experimentation (all to the good) and in the depths (imo) of failed pop experimentation with guest stars (CMIARS). Richard Trying to avoid thinking about the current fiasco in Iraq, which has really disturbed me today. Bombing a mosque places this admin. squarely in my axis of evil. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Lori Fye Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 2:07 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: DJRD and recommendations > Whenever there was discussion about DJRD here, I always thought that I owned > it but that it was one of the 80s Joni efforts that I had once listened to > and put away forever. What an idiot! The thing is, Smurf, DJRD isn't an 80s effort -- it was released in 1977, and it was the album that followed Hejira. Even Mingus counts as a 70s album, as it was released in 1979. I can still remember first hearing DJRD when I was living on the borders of North Dakota, Montana, and Canada (ya wanna see Paprika Plains, go there!). I don't recall if my first listen was in my room in the "barracks," or at Buck's rental house in Westby, MT, but I remember that I loved it right away. Buck, otoh, was generally disappointed. A few years ago, 1999 I guess, I was listening to DJRD on CD at work. One of the guys in the office, a dyed-in-the-wool rancher 50-something rancher named Lyles Houston, remarked how much he liked it and asked if it was a new Joni album. He was AMAZED to learn that it was 22 years old already! It's a timeless album, as are HOSL, Hejira, and well ... you know there may be more. : ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 15:17:34 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: RE: DJRD and recommendations Excellent point, Richard. I think it's just the difference between following her own path, which is what she did with DJRD, and being influenced by Klein to bring in all the pop guests, which was the case with CMIARS. "A Bird That Whistles" from the same album is less the celebs and the gauze of the rest of it, which works in its favor to be sure. Bob NP: REM, "Pilgrimage" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:24:01 -0400 From: Lori Fye Subject: RE: DJRD and recommendations Richard wrote: > You're gonna get me to listen to DJRD again, though I still only have it on > vinyl. I remember liking it a great deal, but thinking that there was too > little on each side, so one had to get up often to turn the records over. True, but then that's one of the pleasures I kinda miss about vinyl: the forced "pause" between sides, which often felt like chapters in a story or acts in a play. > I guess I should get the CD, eh? Maybe it is timeless--I certainly agree with > you about HOSL & Hejira. Since I grew up in Washington and lived there at > the time, "Otis and Marlena" was always interesting to me. Yes on the CD. And of course (as has been discussed here many times), there's the connection between "Otis & Marlena" and 9/11. I know Joni was referring to a specific event in 1977, but it still sounds like prophecy to me. > But--I'm workng from memory here--isn't this the lp with "Silky Veils of > Ardor" on it? Yes indeed! Great song. > Does anyone have any thoughts about the pull of the folk revival on Joni's > work, even as she resists being categorized as a folksinger? I mean she > does these folk songs at the height of jazz experimentation (all to the > good) and in the depths (imo) of failed pop experimentation with guest > stars (CMIARS). For some people -- and for the record industry, because they have to have a "category" for everything -- Joni is and always will be a folk singer. Of course that's selling Joni short. But there were so many people who essentially dismissed Joni when she released Court & Spark, because it didn't sound like what she'd been recording up to that time, and they didn't bother to give any of her later releases a chance at all. It's as if, as far as those "fans" are concerned, Joni released five folk albums (STAS, Clouds, LOTC, Blue, and FTR), and that was the end of her career. Of course these are the same people who constantly refer to Joni as a "60s icon," nevermind that she released new material all the way into 1998. Joni wrote GREAT folk songs, we all know that. But what about everything else? I'm looking forward to when the people who are "reviving" folk music (as if it disappeared into the ether and none was being recorded) progress to the rest of Joni's catalog and appreciate ALL of her genius. Crossing my fingers that will actually happen someday, Lori P.S. - > Trying to avoid thinking about the current fiasco in Iraq, which has really > disturbed me today. Bombing a mosque places this admin. squarely in my axis > of evil. You got that right. I wonder if David Frum (author of the "axis of evil" phrase") gets that?? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 20:31:11 +0100 From: "amelio747" Subject: Re: images of a sunny sunday It's been interesting reading everyone's posts on this. When I listen to the song I feel like a person looking in...the character seems so real, Joni is very good at this. I've noticed Joni has wrote a few other songs about a character feeling trapped for some reason or another and wanting to escape their circumstance and the place that makes them think of it. Just think of 'River', 'The Arrangement', 'Cherokee Louise', 'Marcie', 'Free Man In Paris', 'The Hissing Of Summer Lawns'...all different I think, but the general feeling is the same... to escape... Yeah I think a lot of people can identify with that and I'm sure Joni's music is of some comfort to them. NP: Marie - Randy Newman - (the honesty in this song is truly beautiful) * * * * * * Stephen T "I get the urge for going But I never seem to go" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "magsnbrei" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 2:46 PM Subject: Re: images of a sunny sunday > **all in all, one very powerful song, no matter how you look at it. > > to my above quote my bro Bob replied with: > > It sure is, Mags...thanks for sharing your thoughts. I think this is probably one of those Joni songs that we can easily place ourselves into, having been in any situation that we wanted out of. I've always thought of shotting the streetlight as a crutch, an excuse. She's not strong enough to leave on her own, so she invents something so that she can convince herself that she's not staying because of her own weakness but rather because she missed the streetlight again. > > I hear ya bro. I see the streetlight scenario like this, not so much a crutch, more like a focal point. Perhaps she's got this mantra going on inside her blurry vision (not being 'able' to leave) so it's a bull's eye or a street light or whatever she fixes her temporary focus on. The mantra that might go over and over again something like this ...gathering courage like dust in the doorway, it piles up at her feet. She might get psyched up when she sees her target right there in front of her and think (again and again in the same situation) to herself okay .. today's the day...if I hit this target, I'll leave. again, a powerful song. > > Of course, even if she's as bad a shot as I am (I assume I am, I've never shot a gun) one day she's gonna hit that light...then what will she do? Do you think she'll leave? I don't. I think she'll say "2 out of 3" or some such. > > good question.! I'd like to say yes in the hope that she will..but you know how it goes. It ain't easy babe. > > thanks for the reply. Joni encourages us to tell her what a song means to us, rather than giving her impressions. > > Mags > > np: calling all angels (on xpn) > > > > > > > ***** > your absence has gone through me like thread through a needle > everything i do is stitched with its colour. > w.s.merwin > Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:36:57 EDT From: Warrenkeith91354@aol.com Subject: Re: R Stone blows it with Joni again I say who cares what RS has to say ? I stopped reading what that rag spews out years ago. At one time I was even a subscriber; I think I canceled my subscription around the time of the infamous HOSL review. Like everything else in this country they sold out. We are not a democracy; our form of government is capitalism! Joni has always gone against the grain and I admire her for that...she whines at times, she earned the right to. There are few artists of her stature who will have the lasting effect on music that she does. That handful of artists are rarely mentioned in RS...to quote Lily Tomlin, " and that's the truth!" Jonily Yours, Warren Keith p.s. Bob, I've got the Timothy White book too, I bought it because Joni was on the cover. He ha salway held Joni in high esteem. God bless him... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:13:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: DJRD again i take it Joni will *never* be produced by Daniel Lanois???? thank you Jesus! LOL totally kidding I hope someone sees the humor there.. OK I'm defintely relating best to sides 3 and 4..... not sure why sides one and 2 were painted with the brush called "acoustic guitar", but they were. She chose it that way. Em < Subject: DJRD -- favorites? Okay Em, presumably you've listened to DJRD at least once now ... what do you like? (What do you dislike?) I don't really "dislike" anything on the set, although "The Tenth World" is generally agreed to be everyone's least favorite track. My personal faves are: Jericho Off Night Backstreet Cotton Avenue Paprika Plains The Silky Veils Of Ardor Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:49:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Joni's nude photo on FTR and the "kiss my ass" syndrom As someone who knows nothing about the story behind this photo - do you know what drove Joni to appear in nude on the beach photo inside FTR? I'm sure she didn't just want to show her ass to the world (or maybe she did). Could anyone tell me what was the reaction when that photo was released? The general reaction and your own, that is. And who else had the guts to do such a thing? (I can only recall Lenon and Ono doing that). Another 'ass' photo that i would love to hear your opinon about is the one on the cover of "Hits" (or is it "Misses") - where she's bending infront of the car. It always reminded me of the "Kiss my ass, i said" lyric from Lead Baloon. No doubt there's a statement in that pic. Love, Nuriel Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:53:55 +0100 From: "o" Subject: Re: images of a sunny sunday & Tennessee Williams/imagery in THOSL and more! Hey people, I've just managed to fix my email,which for about a year wasn't allowing me to send from Outlook. I''ve been wanting to weigh in on a lot of topics but have been unable! Sunny Sunday - could this also be a song about getting old? Joni mentions Blanche Dubois, from Tenessee Williams' "Streetcar Named Desire" who covered the lights so people couldn't see she was ageing (I'm simplifying here, but it equates to shooting the streetlight), but Joni *also* wrote about being trapped in the ageing process in 'Sweet Bird' - the title borrowed from *another* Tennessee Williams' play, "Sweet Bird of Youth". Just a thought... THOSL is an album all about trapped women I remember someone saying, and Joni is trapped in time and ageing ("Give me some time, I feel like I'm losing mine") in that song, and in Sunny Sunday the character is powerless to stop the march of time, and it drives her mad. Which leads me on to another observation - I just started to hear the use of recurring imagery in THOSL: The Boho Dance - Clothes (lace along the seams, the virtue of your syle inscribed, runs in her nylons, stricken from your uniform, glamour gowns etc) Harry's House - Fish/the sea (heatwaves, coloured currents, yellow schools of taxi fishes, jonah, fishnet windows, public swimming pool) There are others I've forgotten - any offers? Thanks for reading! Owen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:20:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: DJRD -- favorites? Hi Lori..hmm ok here goes. I like side 3 the best. I'm ok with the 10th world though I don't relate it to JM so much. It reminds me alot of Stewart Copeland's album "the Rhythmatist". the rest of it...ummmm..hmm..ok this to me is about moving through space more than keeping time. "Songs" keep time, usually quite tightly and predictably. These pieces (I don't preceive them as "songs") on record one are more like paintings to me...they don't chop up time, but they move through space. They pass through the day (in fine languid style); they don't "sieze" it. Guess I'm saying its alot more fluid than I'm used to...and again, it seems to be jazz, but dressed in the blue jeans and gingham of the strummed acoustic guitar, which I think threw me. Gotta listen again, I may be *soooooooo* freakin wrong, and I beg the pardon of anyone who knows I'm an idiot by what I've just said. Hey, I might be, about this! But I generally don't do real well with either rock-jazz fusions (Steely Dan being the huge exception) or folk-jazz fusions (some early Donovan and Jansch being exceptions). So I don't know what to make of it. I think its legitimate to say I need to spend some time with it and live with it awhile. Will give it another listen tomorrow. I guess I think its way "dry"...but its probably just that my candy grubbing butt can't handle it. I promise to give it another listen. Was that an ok answer Lori?? didn't mean to offend anyone at all, and certainly not JM. Wish I could see whats hangin' on her walls. thanks for puttin up with my drivel.. Em Or you know what--- Lori Fye wrote: > Okay Em, presumably you've listened to DJRD at least once now ... > what do you > like? (What do you dislike?) > > I don't really "dislike" anything on the set, although "The Tenth > World" is > generally agreed to be everyone's least favorite track. > > My personal faves are: > > Jericho > Off Night Backstreet > Cotton Avenue > Paprika Plains > The Silky Veils Of Ardor > > Lori ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:29:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Joni's nude photo on FTR and the "kiss my ass" syndrom - --- Nuriel Tobias wrote: > I'm sure she didn't just want to show her ass to the world (or > maybe she did). Could anyone tell me what was the reaction when that > photo was released? The general reaction and your own, that is. My own reaction was "whoaaaaaaaaa", followed by a rush of hot blood to my crotch area. ::shrug:: just being honest! :D Em ===== "A minotaur gets very sore" ....ISB '68 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 20:08:25 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: DJRD -- favorites? > Was that an ok answer Lori?? didn't mean to offend anyone at all, and > certainly not JM. It's a GREAT answer, Em! Also, it's difficult to offend anyone here, at least in terms of a music discussion! As for offending Joni, I think she would appreciate your comments and pov! Lori, thinking about having a listen to DJRD with Em's comments in mind ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 20:14:06 EDT From: TinkersOwn@aol.com Subject: Joni's nude photo on FTR and the "kiss my ass" syndrom >Could anyone tell me what was the reaction when that >photo was released? The general reaction and your own, >that is. Well MY reaction was very positive! :) It didn't seem to cause much of a stir, otherwise. Strange to say, but I think nudity was much more accepted in the media then than now. Think of the original covers of Blind Faith and Electric Ladyland. Rolling Stone had full frontal male and female nudity scattered through its pages...like in the "Groupies" issue, or Leon Russell's Delta Lady ad. ################################################ Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA tinkersown@aol.com "The Tinker's Own" www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" www.thelivingtradition.org "Folk Alliance Region - West" www.far-west.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 20:24:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Joni's nude photo on FTR and the "kiss my ass" syndrome Nuriel asked: > As someone who knows nothing about the story behind this photo - do you > know what drove Joni to appear in nude on the beach photo inside FTR? I'm > sure she didn't just want to show her ass to the world (or maybe she did). > Could anyone tell me what was the reaction when that photo was released? > The general reaction and your own, that is. And who else had the guts to > do such a thing? (I can only recall Lenon and Ono doing that). Em responded: > My own reaction was "whoaaaaaaaaa", followed by a rush of hot blood to > my crotch area. > ::shrug:: > just being honest! LOL, Em! Why NOT be honest? I first saw the nude of Joni on FTR in 1978 or so, when I was house-sitting for a friend and scavenging through her record collection. I was still new to Joni (having just discovered JM via Hejira in the spring of 1977), and I hungered for any of her music. (That hasn't changed.) Since I wasn't "out" yet, not really even to myself, I can remember just STARING in wonder and awe (and something like a vague desire) at that photo. It's still one of my favorites (although it doesn't compare to the cover of the Poems & Lyrics book, imo; http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0609802186.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg for those who aren't familiar with it). The FTR nude says "longing for innocence" to me, for some reason. Or maybe "longing for clean water," given those paper plates Javex bottles on the tide ... Anyway, I loved it when I first saw it and I still do. As for the "general reaction" to the photo, I don't know about that but I seem to remember a thread here about how Joni's mom Myrtle wasn't too pleased about it! Nuriel also would like to know: > Another 'ass' photo that i would love to hear your opinon about is the one > on the cover of "Hits" (or is it "Misses") - where she's bending infront > of the car. It always reminded me of the "Kiss my ass, i said" lyric from > Lead Baloon. No doubt there's a statement in that pic. As for the "butt shot" on "Misses," I can see Joni thinking she wanted to say "kiss my ass" to everyone who didn't appreciate those songs the first time around -- especially the record companies that didn't promote them. Considering she had probably already written "Lead Balloon" and was about to release TTT, it makes sense that "kiss my ass" is exactly what she was saying. Lori, happy to be engaging in some Joni content for a change ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 20:58:00 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: DJRD -- favorites? **ok this to me is about moving through space more than keeping time. What a cool statement, Em...far from being offended, I think you really nailed the way this album flows. It does have a sense of being otherworldly almost and moving while time stands still or is a seperate entity altogether. I think she was really focusing on dreams on DJRD, and that carries over into the sonics of the record. Keep listening, and keep talking. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 20:59:44 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: images of a sunny sunday & Tennessee Williams/imagery in THOSL and more! Glad to see your mail back in my inbox, Owen. Keep 'em coming. I love all the fish imagery, I guess I never made that connection. There is so much context and subcontext on that record, it could be a college course all by itself. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:55:10 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Subject: Re: hello, newbie intro I'll say. Today, I saw a photo of broodmares and I've been thinking about "Coyote" ever since. Who else would use the word "broodmare" in a song? Who else would use the word "ascending" in a song? Who else would use the word "comprehending" in a song? In the hands of anyone else, the song would have to be *about* the word choices, a goof, a novelty of a love song about using stilted language. Those words run completely against the accepted wisdom that songs should be written as if by an "enlightened farmer". (Who said that anyway?) One more thing. I saw Joni do Amelia and Coyote at the Rolling Thunder Revue. I bought the 2 cd set of Dylan tracks from that series of shows. What I will remember about that show for the rest of my days was this: Early in the evening, there were various folk and blues oriented folks who did one or two songs apiece. At one point, the medicine show curtain was closed when Joan Baez' clear voice came over the PA unexpectedly: "how many times...." Staring at the closed curtain, the audience began to applaud. Then a male voice... "before they're forever banned?" Dylan. They were trading vocals, unseen. The applause jumped. Two voices... "the answer my friends." Baez and Dylan were singing together. They were in the room but unseen. They were restoring hope in the wake of the 60s disillusionment. Slowly, the curtain rose. Slowly, very slowly, the voices were made flesh. The audience was electrified. There was whistling and thunderous applause. I wish everyone here on the JMDL had been there. Bringing the story is the only thing I can offer. Jim np: someone on the radio doing their own version of Emmylou's "One Big Love" and it strikes me as a good idea. I'm glad she's writing. Gosh, some people have so many talents it is just hard to fathom why the Maker isn't a bit more... democratic. Bob Muller in South Carolina, USA said, >Good luck in discovering post-MOA (Miles Of Aisles) Joni. It's actually when she did her best work.> ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #97 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)