From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #66 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, March 8 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 066 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- trade ["jlobello" ] Westchester? ["jlobello" ] Mingus ["jlobello" ] soon on the western shore ["Raffaele Malanga" ] Re: album suggestions [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Westchester? [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: soon on the western shore [colin ] Re: A Case of You and another newbie ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Newbie ["michael o'malley" ] RE: falsetto ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: falsetto [Catherine McKay ] Re: falsetto [cul ] RE: falsetto ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: falsetto [cul ] RE: JMDL Digest V2004 #98 ["Leslie Neumann" ] Today's Library Links: March 8 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 03:39:44 -0500 From: "jlobello" Subject: trade Bob, Joni is certainly a genius and would have excelled in any endeavor she took a mind to. If she had chosen the sciences she probably would have won the Nobel prize, and we would probably have warp drive right now. Jono ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 03:48:10 -0500 From: "jlobello" Subject: Westchester? Bob, Is that Westchester PA or NY? My sister lives in West Chester, PA. Another showing of it! What give? I own the DVD myself (her documentary--Woman of Hear and Mind), but I have never seen the tribute to Joni Mitchel and would very much like to see it. A DVD copy would very much be appreciated. Jono ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 03:57:11 -0500 From: "jlobello" Subject: Mingus Ken, I have a turntable and I need the Mingus album. Jono ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 12:36:31 +0000 From: "Raffaele Malanga" Subject: soon on the western shore Hi all I will be coming to the US west coast soon (end of March/beginning of April) and, if I manage to convince my partner, would probably drive along the LA coast. Can anybody tell me where does Joni hang out usually? I remember reading on this list that many people have met her dining in a restaurant where she would go all the time... I only want a hug, you know, nothing else. Raf in London. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with cool new emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 08:50:26 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: album suggestions Cul suggested the following to Ahmed: - - - Court and Spark - - - The HIssing of Summer Lawns - - - Hejira Hi Ahmed! Welcome to the list! I was thinking of these last two and Blue. But, I agree with Cul that Court and Spark should be right up there. Either set of albums gives a good mix of Joni's directions or musical flavors or colors, in my opinion. Court and Spark is a good start for getting to know Joni more for those who are only familiar with her from hearing her on the radio. Blue is heavy on the strings with some cool piano too and is good for getting to know the more folk side of Joni. The Hissing of Summer Lawns is smooth with a lot of motion and is my favorite album, her most solidly fit together album in my opinion. It seems to be in a category of it's own... no particular genre other than "Joni." Hejira is in the jazz direction but not a super deep dive into the jazz so it is a good link to her later stuff. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:23:21 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Westchester? Jono wrote" "Bob, Is that Westchester PA or NY? My sister lives in West Chester, PA. Another showing of it! What give? I own the DVD myself (her documentary--Woman of Hear and Mind)," It's Westchester County NY (a town called Pleasantville, about 30 miles north of Manhattan. I too own the DVD, but I am looking forward to the Q&A after the showing with Susan Lacy, who produced, wrote and directed it. It sounds like it might be one of those 'Actor's Studio" kinds of things, since the showing is part of the Jacob Burns Film Centers "Celebrating Women Filmmakers" program. She's a pretty impressive person - see blurb below. I will be driving up after work, leaving at 5 PM from mid-town, if anyone is interested in joining me. "When Lacy throws this much energy into a project, you know she's passionate about it, and that feeling is reflected throughout this very intimate biographical and artistic overview." (New York Daily News) As the creator and executive producer of "American Masters," the award-winning PBS series, Susan Lacy has been responsible for the production and national broadcast of more than 125 documentary biographies on artists who have made a significant impact on American culture. In her capacity as producer and as a writer and director-Lacy has won Peabody, Emmy, and Grammy awards and has been nominated for three Oscars. Before creating "American Masters," she was a program executive on "Great Performances" and "American Playhouse," where she was a founding member. Previously, Lacy headed the East Coast office of the Sundance Institute. Lacy has also run programs for both the National Endowment for the Arts and the National Endowment for the Humanities. Then Jono again " but I have never seen the tribute to Joni Mitchel and would very much like to see it. A DVD copy would very much be appreciated." I do not have a DVD copy (does anyone on the list have the capacity to make one ?) but I could help you with a VHS copy. Write me off list if interested. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 16:03:51 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: soon on the western shore Raffaele Malanga wrote: > > > Can anybody tell me where does Joni hang out usually? I remember > reading on this list that many people have met her dining in a > restaurant where she would go all the time... I only want a hug, you > know, nothing else. as the actress said to the bishop-yes we have heard it all before...only a hug...... - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:28:49 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: A Case of You and another newbie Joni is Tori Amos, Eric Johnson, Bob Dylan, and Daniel Lanois rolled into one. All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:45:13 -0500 From: "jlobello" Subject: falsetto All, Now, Ive have been thinking about this for a week or so by now. So, Ill let it rip. Lately, Ive read that Joni has always referred to herself as being an alto rather than a soprano. I have been listing to her earlier stuff (STAS and Clouds) and she did have a remarkable range back then, but on LOTC and Blue she would use her higher register and stay there throughout whole songs. Now, I may be full of sh*t but a few weeks ago when our new Brazilian friend, Ciao, joined up, he referred to Jonis high register as a exquisite "falsetto". And, by god, I think that is what she employs (not consciously, mind you) to hit her high highs. All be its a very feminine falsetto, but a falsetto none the less. I expect Ill generate a comment or two with this one. Jono ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:08:40 -0500 From: "michael o'malley" Subject: Re: Newbie Hi Ahmed, Welcome! I see that many folks have given you some ideas as to their favourite Joni albums and such, but I would like to add a couple more. First, if you like jazzy music (which I assume you do if you listen to Diana Krall) then you must someday hear the cover album Joni released and toured in 2000, called Both Sides Now. As you probably know, the album charts the arc - the rise and fall - of a romantic relationship, through popular songs of the 40'and 50's, arranged for orchestra. Joni also re-did two of her great classics, A Case of You, and Both Sides Now for this project - which undoubtedly inspired Krall. Both these orchestral versions of her earlier work are perfection incarnate. And speaking of Joni's later albums, I would also recommend Night Ride Home and Turbulent Indigo - two of her great albums from the 90's. Enjoy! Michael in Quebec ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 23:24:50 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: falsetto i'm not sure that the concept of falsetto can be applied to a female voice. wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de > jlobello > Enviado el: Domingo, 07 de Marzo de 2004 10:45 p.m. > Para: joni@smoe.org > Asunto: falsetto > >. And, by god, I think that is what she employs (not > consciously, > mind you) to hit her high highs. All be its a very feminine > falsetto, but a > falsetto none the less. > > I expect Ill generate a comment or two with this one. Jono ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:55:17 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: falsetto --- jlobello wrote: > Lately, Ive read that Joni has always referred to > herself as being an alto > rather than a soprano. > > I have been listing to her earlier stuff (STAS and > Clouds) and she did have a > remarkable range back then, but on LOTC and Blue she > would use her higher > register and stay there throughout whole songs. > > Now, I may be full of sh*t but a few weeks ago when > our new Brazilian friend, > Ciao, joined up, he referred to Jonis high register > as a exquisite > "falsetto". And, by god, I think that is what she > employs (not consciously, > mind you) to hit her high highs. All be its a very > feminine falsetto, but a > falsetto none the less. Joni has herself referred to her high voice as a "sort of falsetto" (or her "helium" voice). Women can and do sing falsetto, but it's not as obvious as when a man does it. Sometimes it's called "head voice" (although I think the term "head voice" doesn't necessarily always mean falsetto.) My singing teacher suggested, to get that particular falsetto, to try whining like a very young puppy ;-) I'm not sure what the highest note is that Joni can sing, but a lot of sopranos can do F or F# above the C above middle-C without a problem. I'm an alto and I can occasionally, if I have to, hit the D about the C above middle-C or even an E, but I don't feel at all comfortable there - it's like being strangled (like, I've experienced that many times). And the older we get, the more register we lose. Smoking doesn't help, and Joni has had health problems too, and she seems to prefer the sound of the lower register in any case. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 21:58:07 -0500 From: cul Subject: Re: falsetto jlobello wrote: >>And, by god, I think that is what she employs (not consciously, >mind you) to hit her high highs. All be it's a very feminine falsetto, but a >falsetto none the less. > >I expect I'll generate a comment or two with this one. Jono< > > here's one ...but I agree completely that Joni is indeed in falsetto sometimes nearly throughout a song. A good example is "Banquet". learning to follow her through her range was basically how I trained my voice to mimic her pitches without straining...at the time it was sort of weird for a guy to be singing so high but I didn't care..."grow up I cried"... as matter of fact, one of my good friends I knew while living in Winnipeg, Dan Donhue, was practicing "Don't Interrupt The Sorrow" because he loved the song and wanted to play at the upcoming Winnipeg Folk Festival and he was concerned about how high he had to sing it and the fact that the lyrics were obviously from a female perspective. I spent a few hours singing it with him shamelessly in falsetto where necessary and completely from the female character and propagandized him about the true artist is genderless and that he should simply consider performing it as a female as a form of liberation for himself. It took a while because back then Dan was fairly steeped in that het male rep prison, but to his credit he forced himself to play it without changing the key at the festival and did me the honor of prefacing the song with a thank you to me for helping him to see beyond gender constraints. Getting back to Joni and her use of falsetto...I think she has always considered her voice an instrument and took the risk of being "operatic" in a time period and mileu than generally shunned such sounds. I think that operatic sound is what some people find grating or shrill about her early explorations. Anyone who can sing (or sang) the range and intervals of Mitchell's vocal evolution (oh God, the exquiste torture of some of those swooping violin melodies!)is a singer indeed! It took me a week to follow her through phrases like "we don't need a piece of paper from the city hall keeping us tied and true, no..." when I first got the album. I mean who the hell else in the folk/pop/rock field was singing anywhere near that level of complex interval and harmonic? And how many us on the list really acquired a great ear to vocal sense by first acquiring her melodic intricacies and then even having the creative audacity to jam harmonies while listening to the record? I betcha quite a few of us. Rambling, I know. cul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 01:15:10 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: falsetto falsetto is by definition artificial. i think joni is a soprano (never mind what her voice sounds like now). the highs she reached when she was younger were the typical high notes of a soprano. banquet is very operatic. i am SO sure joni had listened to maria callas by the time she wrote banquet: i hear a lot of callas in that song. i guess there's a confusion of terms: the "lyrical ("operatic") voice versus falsetto. i use falsetto when i sing like a soprano. i'm a tenor (a countertenor before i started smoking again, but that's another story), and i have to sing falsetto if i want to sound like a soprano. i artificially push my voice above my highest note in the tenor region and i sound like a girl, or a child before his voice broke. i did it at jonifest when i sang the soprano part from carmina burana and the kurt weill bit, although my voice was already in poor shape in those days. i have recorded some verdi and puccini arias, and you can't tell it's man singing. that was falsetto. joni didn't use lyrical techniques in most of her early songs, but when she did, she just sang as a soprano. i'm sure robert holliston or russell bowden can provide the exact terms for this. (nowadays, because my chords and breath control have been damaged by cigarettes, i can sing alto parts only. i can do the opera villainesses (ortrud, venus, etc) but not the heroines (isolde, elsa). eventually, i will be good only for the "confidantes": the old broads that help the heroine get dressed, sing three lines and exit.) wally ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 00:16:55 -0500 From: cul Subject: Re: falsetto Wally Kairuz wrote: falsetto is by definition artificial. well, that would be the "false" part of falsetto, but what are we to make of the "tto"? :) i think joni is a soprano (never mind what her voice sounds like now). the highs she reached when she was younger were the typical high notes of a soprano. banquet is very operatic. i am SO sure joni had listened to maria callas by the time she wrote banquet: i hear a lot of callas in that song. I think you right on both counts. i guess there's a confusion of terms: the "lyrical ("operatic") voice versus falsetto. What I mean by falsetto is that range for which there is a definable "click point" in the register where the voice "changes gears" as it were. Yodeling for example exploits that click point from the low chest voice to the falsetto. The comparison I have heard to characterize falsetto is that it is comparable to the relationship of a flute to a recorder, the latter being the falsetto. i use falsetto when i sing like a soprano. i'm a tenor (a countertenor before i started smoking again, but that's another story), and i have to sing falsetto if i want to sound like a soprano. i artificially push my voice above my highest note in the tenor region and i sound like a girl, or a child before his voice broke. Although I think it can hard to discern when a soprano range voice makes the transition into falsetto and because the range of the chest and falsetto voice can overlap quite extensively, I do think that I have noticed Mitchell using that "click" point into order to generate a percussive accent. An example of that would be when she sings( again using Banquet as the source)..."down where the water ski[*]ers..." [*] marking the clickpoint. Or another example of where I hear her using it extensively for accent push is throughout "Twisted". i did it at jonifest when i sang the soprano part from carmina burana and the kurt weill bit, although my voice was already in poor shape in those days. i have recorded some verdi and puccini arias, and you can't tell it's man singing. that was falsetto. joni didn't use lyrical techniques in most of her early songs, but when she did, she just sang as a soprano. I had no idea you were so wildly talented...that's really cool. Let me tell you this little fun story. I have always been a singer on the street as I walk and still do it today. It often gets me odd looks but..meh. When I was living in Toronto at 18, I went home from work for some lunch since my place of work was quite close. We had arranged for the floors of the apartment to be sanded and refinished while we were all at work. The apartment was emptied of furniture and drapery in order for this to be done and as a result the apartment had the best echo. The place was empty since the workmen had apparently one for lunch as well and so I was free to play with the space vocally. As I prepared my tuna sandwich for lunch I naturally fell into singing fake italian sounding lyrics in a booming fake operatic bass voice and would switch from that into an appropriately tragic emotive response from the female character in a strong falsetto. Anyway, I was continuing this little ersatz piece, accelerating the switching between the two voices as the emotions crescendoed. At the peak, and I swung around and broadly pointed an accusing tuna sandwich ( shoulda been ham) directly at a coupe of middle aged and beer bellied workmen who had returned unbeknownst to me and were taking in my "performance" while leaning against the door way eating their own sandwiches. I stopped rather abruptly and put my hand to my forehead thinking "oh my god!" The two workman good naturedly clapped with the back of their hands into their palms still holding the sandwiches as though they were sitting in a loge seat at the end of Act I or something...I just grinned once in embarassment and left immediately sweeping past them pretending to flourish a cape as I left. After that afternoon fiasco I made a point of never being at the apartment when I thought they might be there working. Silly. But yes...so you see, I too have performed "opera"...not! i'm sure robert holliston or russell bowden can provide the exact terms for this. if they cannot, they will be held accountable. (nowadays, because my chords and breath control have been damaged by cigarettes, i can sing alto parts only. i can do the opera villainesses (ortrud, venus, etc) but not the heroines (isolde, elsa). eventually, i will be good only for the "confidantes": the old broads that help the heroine get dressed, sing three lines and exit. wally god! I love a man who smokes to point of destroying the ability of their vocal chords to impersonate a woman or relive their salad days as virtual castrato...there's just something so... manly about it ...so deeply sans souci. marry me and we can stroll the beaches in old age huskily harmonizing the two or three pitches we can still croak in between the moments we stop and languidly share our puffs, looking deeply into each others eyes to catch the sparkle of knowing there is but two gods, female both, and they named joni and nicotine. cul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 23:25:18 -0800 From: "Leslie Neumann" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2004 #98 This is too funny: >Here's what VH1 came up with:- > >Joni Mitchell >Joni Mitchell wrote a song called Woodstock >Woodstock was recorded by CSN&Y >CSN&Y were lead by David Crosby >David Crosby donated the sperm for Melissa Etheridge's baby >Melissa Etheridge is openly gay >Ian McEllan is openly gay > > > > >Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 06:14:38 -0500 >From: cul Anyone have any idea who the king was?? Elvis!!!! Or was it that Last Chinese Emporer guy???.... > > > >20. In your opinion, who is the best Division I assistant coach in the >country? ok , 15 minutes of fame... > > > > > > >P.S. Don't you wish Joni would come out for Kerry with a new version of >"Carey"? She performed/worked for my first political love (George >McGovern) >in 1972, I believe. Please, Joni, please? > uh, right on...Kerry git out yer keys, please! Does he know how to cook Greek? > > >Christie Brinkley's page caught my eye. Quoth she: > >"I couldn't count the hours I spent by my stereo deciphering Joni >Mitchell's >lyrics and adding them to my life's meaning. When I got the chance to meet >her, there were so many things I wanted to say, and I was so overwhelmed >that I >couldn't talk. She said, 'You know how many times people ask me if I'm >your >mom?' I tried to speak again, but nothing came out." Don't it always seem to go, you meet your life's hero, and what d'ya know? Yr brain turns into silly putty-o i used to teach Christie dressage in Amagansett town. seriously. i shlda known she was a joni fan. >people who are creative or different from the "norm" this sounds mighty familiar ;) > >------------------------------ >Subject: Re: Twisted and the pretzel > >We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction sharon, sharon, here's my lament...i wanted to be a bread stick, but was bound to creative bent... > > > adieu, a fellow scorp np: travelogue cassandra wilson's traveling miles wayne shorter's allegria _________________________________________________________________ Create a Job Alert on MSN Careers and enter for a chance to win $1000! http://msn.careerbuilder.com/promo/kaday.htm?siteid=CBMSN_1K&sc_extcmp=JS_JASweep_MSNHotm2 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 02:24:39 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: March 8 On March 8 the following articles were published: 1987: "A Song For This Decade? Folksinging Punk Rock" - Detroit Free Press (Mention) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=918 2002: "'Blue' Movie" - Entertainment Weekly (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=756 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #66 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)