From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #24 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, January 26 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 024 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Pedal Steel ["Paul Castle" ] Re: Pedal Steel [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: On inventing chords - modulation etc [Howard ] Neil and Joni quiz ["Janine Sherman" ] dang 210 [PhydeauxVvvvV1@aol.com] Re: dang 210 [Catherine McKay ] (no subject) [PhydeauxVvvvV1@aol.com] Re: modulations, etc. - Amelia Technical content - long [Bobsart48@aol.c] Re: On inventing chords - modulation etc [Randy Remote ] Re: newbie [Emiliano ] Re: newbie [PhydeauxVvvvV1@aol.com] Re: Taming the Tyger ["mia ortlieb" ] Re: newbie [Catherine McKay ] Today in History: January 26 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: January 26 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: Giving Fred Simon his due [FredNow@aol.com] Re: On inventing chords - Amelia analysis ["Marian Russell" Subject: Pedal Steel Although the sound of the pedal steel is sometimes a bit yonky donk for me, I've always really liked the occasional Sneeky Pete riff on Joni albums - particularly on - "They're playing "Goodbye baby, Baby Goodbye...oooh....Love is blind" - - didn't they have a name for that band on the "headphones up high"? (I now have the Gold 'Blue' with no mention on the cover, but I seem to remember) and I loved the sound Jerry Garcia got with CSN etc >[re Teach Your Children] Jerry Garcia's first-ever recording >on pedal steel. Garcia was teaching himself how to play it at >the time. Despite protests that he could do better, Nash ended >the session after two takes. "You can play all you want, Jerry. >I know what I want. It's my record, so get over it." But I've never heard it used, as far as I can remember, for a southern hard rock lead guitar sound - until today - just heard this on a radio show Robert Randolph & The Family Band - Unclassified http://www.robertrandolph.net/music/unclassified.htm and click on Track 11 - Run for your Life (only 29 secs madly) which sounds like Graham Bond or a wild Booker T meets Jeff Beck's Yarbirds - in full flight - to me. Let me on the dance floor! PaulC who advises growing your hair a foot longer, getting the best set of headphones in the house and turning it up to 11 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 08:56:32 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Pedal Steel As far as Joni & pedal steel, it's hard to beat what Greg Liesz does on TTT and especially on her '98 tour. His solo on Black Crow is right up there as far as I'm concerned, and an appropriate one as it approximates the swooping of the bird. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 14:20:55 +0000 From: Howard Subject: Re: On inventing chords - modulation etc There have been lots more interesting thoughts on Joni's guitar chords, modulation, analysis etc. Great stuff! On the question of whether the songs modulate or not: My interpretation of modulation is based on what I hear - i.e when I hear a shift in the "home key", and by definition this is subjective. Analysis of the chords can help to clarify, but this analysis is also subjective. The bottom line for me is how my ear and brain react to the chord changes. In Amelia, there is no question that I hear changes in the "home key". For some time the sense of home key is actually left ambiguous - but the intro and chorus give a very strong feeling of F as the key, the verse hints at both C and G. Some people sound like they hear something similar to this, while other hear things differently: Jenny wrote: >I think what Joni is doing in this song is technically modulating between C and G and even F. >I have a feeling there is more than one way to correctly analyze this song >anyway because she hovers in between keys without committing fully to one. Marian wrote: >G C G >V I V >I was driving a- cross the burning desert when I > >Bb Eb Bb >IV/IV IV/IV/IV IV/IV >spotted six jet planes leaving > >All of these chords fit into the key of C. When I hear the Bb, Eb and Bm chords they sound like they have a very distant relationship to C (but a much closer one to F and G) - but that's just my take. On Hejira, nearly all of the song is I, IV and V in the key of C, as Marian said. But the intro/interlude section, in particular the Eb6/9 chord, sounds like it's a long way from the home key of C. Calling this the IV of IV of IV (tertiary sub-dominant?!?) seems to emphasise that it is a distant relative. Again, it's subjective as to whether you actually hear it this way or not (which to me is the most important factor). But I hear the intro/interlude key as ambiguous, and pretty much unconnected with the firm C of the rest of the song. The repeated shift in the chords from Dm to Eb gives an unresolved, unsettled feeling (echoing some of the themes in the lyrics?). When it finally changes to C at the start of the verse, I definitely hear this as a shift in key, i.e a modulation. Marian wrote: >I still maintain that in the guitar songs there is not ever deliberate modulation to >another key. I do hear modulations - though whether they're deliberate or not is difficult to answer. The way I hear her guitar songs, there are three basic groups: There are songs that sit firmly and unambiguously within one key (e.g. Big Yellow Taxi, Cherokee Louise). There are also quite a lot of songs that have brief diversions from the main key, often just a single chord (People's Parties: Fmajor chord, with D major as the key; Coyote: repeated use of Eb, with main key of C). There are other songs where I hear much wider and more prolonged diversions from the home key (Amelia, Refuge of the Roads, Song For Sharon, Jungle Line). People's interpretations of what is inside or outside the home key, or even what the "home key" is, will differ - but my feeling is that there are probably similar numbers of songs in those three groups. Howard ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 09:53:19 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Taming the Tyger I think it has come up before, but it's been a while and this kind of discussion could go on for a long time. There's a whole world of William Blake that could be discussed for ages, given the time and will. Like Joni, Blake was both a visual artist and a poet (ah yes, but did he write music?) He was a visionary poet and artist and his poetry is full of imagery and mythology (and many of the "myths" were his own creations. Given Joni's early creation of POSALL and the MOSALM, I think there might be a thesis in there somewhere - if only there were more info on the P and the M, LOL!) I don't see Blake's poem as being negative, really, but rather about fascination with and admiration for this fearsome, bloodthirsty creature that stalks about the jungles of the night presumably without remorse. Joni talks about "taming" the tiger and I believe others have mentioned this as being part of a Zen belief, but I could be mistaken. However, if you look upon it as Joni's desire to tame the bloodthirsty or just plain noisy beast that dwells within us all, it makes sense. And yet, she also says, "You can't tame the tiger" and "Boring!" It may not be just the "genuine junk food for juveniles" that's boring. She may also be questioning whether taming the tiger might not make her boring as well. Can you turn a tiger into a "nice kitty, kitty"? Should you try? There's tons of stuff about Blake on the web, and you could easily spend a lifetime studying his work. For starters, here are just two websites through which you could wander for ages without getting tired: http://www.blakearchive.org/ and http://www.tate.org.uk/britain/exhibitions/blakeinteractive/ (this one is great because it's filled with interactive workshops and so on - pour yourself another cuppa whatever you're drinking and plan to set a spell! The Tate site has a page from "Songs of experience" featuring the Tyger poem along with Blake's illustration for it, and if you move your mouse over the tiger itself, the comment says, "In the poem, the tiger described is a fearful animal, but the tiger shown here looks amiable and cuddly. Did Blake have trouble depicting wild animals?" http://www.tate.org.uk/britain/exhibitions/blakeinteractive/works/songs_06.html --- mia ortlieb wrote: > This may have been mentioned previously in the land > of Joni talk, as I'm > always behind the times. But I was reading some > poetry by William Blake > (poet of the romantic period) for school and came > across this poem: > > The Tyger > > Tyger! Tyger! burning bright > In the forests of the night, > What immortal hand or eye > Could frame thy fearful symmetry? > > In what distant deeps or skies > Burnt the fire of thine eyes? > On what wings dare he aspire? > What the hand dare seize the fire? > > And what shoulder, and what art, > Could twist the sinews of thy heart? > And when that heart began to beat, > What dread hand? and what dread feet? > > What the hammer? what the chain? > In what furnace was thy brain? > What the anvil? what dread grasp > Dare its deadly terrors clasp? > > When the stars threw down their spears, > And watered heaven with their tears, > Did he smile his work to see? > Did he who made the Lamb make thee? > > Tyger! Tyger! burning bright > In the forests of the night, > What immortal hand or eye > Dare frame thy fearful symmetry? -- William Blake > > Has it been discussed before why Joni might have > used references from this > poem for her "Taming the Tiger?" It seems to me > that Blake's poem is > portraying the Tiger in a negative light, and > perhaps Joni is countering > that image by portraying the Tiger in a positive > light. I like the way Joni > has turned around the line about the stars > throwing/chucking down their > spears, and instead of the stars watering heaven > with their tears, Joni > thinks of her beloved friend Anna (who as I > understand died in a plane > accident?) as fireworks in the sky. Much more > positive imagery than a crying > heaven imo. > > Any one care to comment on the juxtaposition of the > two works? > > Mia > > _________________________________________________________________ > Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! > http://shopping.msn.com/softcontent/softcontent.aspx?scmId=1418 ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 10:28:11 -0500 From: "Janine Sherman" Subject: Neil and Joni quiz Thanks Bob for keeping us on our toes! I loved the quiz although I only knew 2 answers off the top. Great timing as we will be seeing Neil and Crazy Horse March 12 at the Chocolate capital (Hershey, PA). Anyone else seen or seeing this Greendale tour? How is it? Thinking of her Last Waltz performance, does anyone else think Joni appears to be in quite a sullen/angry mood? This was filmed sometime around Hejira trip period and the Guerin (RIP) breakup time I believe Any insights? Best, Janine NP: Seasons of Love: RENT ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 11:42:23 EST From: PhydeauxVvvvV1@aol.com Subject: dang 210 they same in on my way to hell I got a 210 John G When you're lovers in a dangerous time sometimes you're made to feel as if your love's a crime but nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight got to kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight - ---- Bruce Cockburn ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 12:05:22 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: dang 210 --- PhydeauxVvvvV1@aol.com wrote: > they same in on my way to hell I got a > 210 > Hey, are you a newbie? or a lurker? Never mind the stupid hell-test. What's your Joni-connection? When did you discover Joni? and things like that... ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 12:34:08 EST From: PhydeauxVvvvV1@aol.com Subject: (no subject) Hello Cathrine and folks of this list, I am a "newbie" to the list, I enjoy JM 's music and from what I can gather she must be a fine human. I stumbled on the list a couple weeks ago and joined. I've been passivly listingn to JM for about 25 years, though i'm not to versed in much other than the older stuff she has done. So i'm feeling inspired to catch up on her music and see what she's been about lately. John G in CT When you're lovers in a dangerous time sometimes you're made to feel as if your love's a crime but nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight got to kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight - ---- Bruce Cockburn ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 14:05:59 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: modulations, etc. - Amelia Technical content - long I know I am late to this, and I have not read much since Marian posted this 5 days ago, but Marian's notation mad me think: am bm vi iii/V six white vapor trails across the could also be written am bm ii/V iii/V six white vapor trails across the suggesting that we are sort of inside of the key of G for the moment. However, I think Marian is right that this is completely in the key of C. On the guitar, these two chords are played as A minor and B minor inversions (with the minor third played on the top end of the chord), with a GC drone added in the middle of them for color. To me, that GC drone suggests that we are still in the key of C (not in the key of G), since the standard drone, I think, is the tonic and its fifth. Maybe it is by keeping that drone in there that Joni keeps us anchored in C, even though the chords themselves might seem to suggest we have modulated - or "traveled" ? - into G. I would love to hear someone knowledgable discuss this, either on list or off list. By the way, ignoring the susp's and 7'ths and 9'ths is a bit tough - for example, the two chords noted above are hardly A minor and B minor. If the guitar notes are played on the piano, they are AEGAC ( an Am7 - or C6 - inversion) and then BF#GBCD ( a Bm inversion, with a GC drone). Try playing these on the piano as chords (rather than as arpeggio picks) to appreciate the stew that Joni makes of these notes. If Joni had done this as a piano piece, I bet she would have played them as C/A and Gsus4/B into G/B (where the A bass shown above would be played as a modal arpeggio of AEAEAEAE and the B bass would be BF#BF#BF# in her usual style). This then leads into G/C and C/C. In terms of 'root chords', I think that by playing what I think the root chords are on the piano with right hand only, one can get the sense of the guts of the song (and that it pretty much stays rooted in C), while by later adding the rest of the notes, one can better see what Joni adds to color her basic root chords. For example, play these chords right hand only: Intro C F (the D minor is a color chord, so just play the C and the F) . Then Fsus4 then G Gsus4 G Bd Bdsus4 Bd C (later add the A/E bass for the minor color) Gsus4 G G C C Bm Bm Am G F Fsus4 F Fsus4 F then back into the intro C F. The Bd chord (the IV/IV as Marian puts it) is a slightly odd chord in the key of C, but one sees it from time to time. For example, in the Beatles' (Lennon's) You've Got to Hide Your Love Away, we get similar chord structures. The song - played in G on the guitar - has the chords G Dsus4 F G C F C then G Dsus4 F G C F C D Dsus4 D into a chorus of G C Dsus4 D Dadd2 D etc. Clearly in the key of G, yet we see an F chord appear in the main verses. Similarly, the Bm in Amelia is the relative minor of G (the V in the key of C), and is found in countless songs in the key of C. Gotta go for now. Fascinating song. Beautiful color tones. Warm chord structure. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 11:21:37 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: On inventing chords - modulation etc Howard wrote: > My interpretation of modulation is based on what I hear - i.e when I > hear a shift in the "home key", and by definition this is subjective. I kind of approach it as an improviser. When I'm playing lead guitar, if I have to shift to another scale, then I say the song has modulated out of the home key. Most of Joni's songs do this. Another way of looking at it is, can you play the whole song on a harmonica (which is in one key)? If you can't, then the song doesn't stay in that key! Thinking of something as the IV of the IV of the IV.....well I wish I could do that on the fly! But then again, everything is related to everything else. If every chord is the IV of the iii of the V or whatever, then everything is in C anyway, right? RR also enjoying this thread and learning Webster Dictionary-2 : modulate: to pass from one musical key into another by means of intermediary chords or notes that have some relation to both keys my comment: so going from one key (say, C) into another key that has no relation (say C#) is not a modulation??? Or changing keys without "intermediary chords or notes" is not?? "You see, just beneath the surface of the mud...there's more mud here....surprise...heh heh...." - David Crosby ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 11:43:02 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Joni gets some respect! I had a call a day or so ago from my step son who is a young guitar player attending the Los Angeles Academy http://www.lamusicacademy.com/ which has a strong jazz influence... His dad raised him with an awareness of Dylan & many other musicians of that era as well as earlier blues musicians & his favorite guitarists as a kid were Hendrix & SRV... The school's instructors are all working musicians with great credits to their resume... Anyway, he's heard me rave Joni countless times & is aware of the yearly tributes I produce... That day his instructor had spent the day teaching the students about someone who they said was one of the finest examples of a jazz musician- joni! He was blown away by mingus & shadows & light... I told him he could borrow my s&l dvd anytime & he was very excited about seeing this show... He'd heard my bass player & I go on & on about this concert & now he finally got what all the fuss was about! So I told him to please invite some of his instructors to play in next years tribute as we are always short on the jazz end of her catalogue :~} Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 20:54:18 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: newbie Hi, John! Welcome! Please, tell us more about your Joni "moments": what you mean by "older stuff", the music prior to Court & Spark? to Mingus? Did you lost her trace in the eighties? You must hear Night Ride Home, for instance, it's a truly gem: I've discovered it less than a year ago, and I can't (nor want) get out of my head! Please feel free to talk... about everything you want; c'mon, this is a warm place! Have a Wonderful time! Emiliano, from Galicia PS: BTW, it seems you're a Bruce Cockburn fan! - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: Para: Enviado: domingo, 25 de enero de 2004 18:34 Asunto: (no subject) > Hello Cathrine and folks of this list, > I am a "newbie" to the list, I enjoy JM 's music and from what I can > gather she must be a fine human. I stumbled on the list a couple weeks ago and > joined. I've been passivly listingn to JM for about 25 years, though i'm not > to > versed in much other than the older stuff she has done. So i'm feeling > inspired > to catch up on her music and see what she's been about lately. > > > John G in CT > > When you're lovers in a dangerous time > sometimes you're made to feel as if your love's a crime > but nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight > got to kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight > > > > > > > > ---- Bruce Cockburn ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 18:35:35 EST From: PhydeauxVvvvV1@aol.com Subject: Re: newbie Well hello again, Thank you all for being so friendly and open. Back in the late 70's early 80's I was living in Pa. Outside of Philadelphia and had on occasion heard a little Joni Mitchell on the radio or what have you. I thought, this woman can sing and she plays nicely as well. Though I didn't really understand what she was saying. At that time I was much younger and was into all kinds of music much of which has faded over the years. A fair amount seems ridiculous now, I look back and laugh at myself and wonder what was I thinking. A few artists and groups have kept my interest but very few. As noticed I like Bruce Cockburn. I also like Mississippi John Hurt and a few other blues artists. Sarah mclaughlin is pretty good and I like a guy named Mark Heard unfortunately he is no longer with us. I think the last album I heard by Joni had "Free man in Paris" on it, I remember really liking that song. I have one story that folks in here could probably appreciate. About the same time as mentioned above I stopped to help a guy who was stranded on the side of the road and eventually he was able to get back on his way and he gave me an address and phone number and invited me to a party at the address and told me to call if I had any problems finding the place. I was like OK thanks and wasn't going to go. Somehow I ended up near the area the same time the party was happening and stopped in. The guy wasn't there and I felt kind of stupid not knowing anyone, it was a very small private party so it was awkward, but it seemed nobody was really paying me any mind. I saw this girl there sitting in the living room talking to some people and thought, damn she looks familiar and couldn't place it. There was this guitar near me and I kinda strummed guitar a little, I had been playing about 6 months and asked someone if it was OK if I messed around with it. I remember it was an old small guitar but sounded really nice. I had no idea what was a good guitar or not at the time. After about 10 minutes of tinkering she came over and asked could she have her guitar. I was like oh sure, sorry I didn't know who's it was and she was like, that's OK. then two guys walk in with guitar cases and nice guitars and sit down and the three of them started playing "Big Yellow Taxi" she starts singing and I almost fell out of my chair. I was thinking that is who she looks like . They did the one song and that was it. I never asked or said anything, I was very shy back then and would never have approached anyone in a situation like that but if it wasn't Joni then I'm the pope. Everybody kind of left after that as did I and that was that. Now I'm going get a few of her CD's. Maybe try and figure out a couple of her songs if there are tabs out there anywhere. I'm not sure how it will go as I've become very picky over the years. So it is nice to meet you all and I hope I can contribute in a positive way to the group. John G When you're lovers in a dangerous time sometimes you're made to feel as if your love's a crime but nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight got to kick at the darkness until it bleeds daylight - ---- Bruce Cockburn ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 17:55:38 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: Re: Taming the Tyger <> That's an interesting angle. I thought perhaps because Joni was so bored with the music industry that she dropped out and wanted to spend the rest of her days taking on the challenge of taming the tiger. Challenges are usually not boring; but if it is impossible to tame the tiger, then yes, the task could get old and boring. "Should you try?" appears to be the unanswered central question to Joni's song, just as Blake brings unanswered questions to his poem. Mia _________________________________________________________________ Rethink your business approach for the new year with the helpful tips here. http://special.msn.com/bcentral/prep04.armx ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 18:59:51 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: newbie --- PhydeauxVvvvV1@aol.com wrote: ...I was thinking that is > who she looks like . They > did the one song and that was it. I never asked or > said anything, I was very > shy back then and would never have approached anyone > in a situation like that > but if it wasn't Joni then I'm the pope. Well, we'll just call you Pope John then, OK? > Now I'm going get a few of her CD's. Maybe try > and figure out a couple of > her songs if there are tabs out there anywhere. I'm > not sure how it will go as > I've become very picky over the years. It sounds like you got off the Joni train at Court and Spark, so there's a lot more to hear. I think it was Emiliano that already mentioned "Night Ride Home" - good choice. Then again, if you haven't got Hejira, then get out and get it and let us know what you think :-) And when it comes to guitar tabs, you have also come to the right place. Just get on over to www.jmdl.com and scroll down the left-hand side and you'll find the guitar tab database. This should keep you busy for a looong time, so you won't have a lot left over for that hellish activity you were indulging in before you got here... ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 02:04:55 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: January 26 1976: Joni performed at Memorial Auditorium in Dallas, Texas. 1995: Joni performed at the Gene Autry Western Heritage Museum in Los Angeles, before 240 invited fans. Just after the show, Joni sat for a "Cyber-Talk" that was carried live on AOL. Click the link for the transcript. More info: http://www.jonimitchell.com/Autry95.html http://www.jonimitchell.com/AOLTranscript95.html - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 02:04:55 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: January 26 On January 26 the following article was published: 1995: "Cyber-Talk" - America On-Line (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=638 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 02:04:06 -0500 From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Giving Fred Simon his due So much to respond to in just one of Lama's posts! Foremost, I really love posts whose subjects are along the lines of "giving Fred Simon his due." They float my boat. I'm grateful your co-worker dug my Songs Of My Youth, Vol. 1 album; thanks for turning her on to it. (By the way, I took the "njc" appellation of my reply because, as you know, my album features piano arrangements of three Joni songs.) You'd better get it back, Jim ... its availability can't be guaranteed in perpetuity. Just tell her: "No, my sister, you've got to buy your own!" Also, if you feel comfortable doing so, you should tell her that if she digs SOMY, v.1, and she digs Windham Hill, she'd really dig my Windham Hill album, Usually/Always, which features my own music. Now, regarding The Blue Man Group, this is a subject about which I can speak with some authority because my wife, Sarah Allen, was one of the drummers in the show when it opened in Chicago about seven years ago. She stayed with them for about three years (including 8 months of pregnancy), and of course I saw the show several times. I dig the music, but I agree that without the visual component it's lacking. But the live show is great fun, and well worth seeing. Your comment about it being "more like a circus act" is apt for two reasons. First, it does share an aesthetic approach with "modern" circuses; think Cirque du Soleil, not Ringling Bros. But the other reason it's apt, and ironically so, is that rumor has it that the creators of the show circumvented the musician's union's pay scale for theatrical shows by having the show classified as a circus, not theater. Circus pay scale is, of course, much lower. At least, that's the story I was told. Finally, I heartily second your recommendation of James Taylor's incredible album (LIVE), and I'd say skip the single CD version, go straight for the whole pierogi. But I'm baffled by this sentence: "For people who have nothing from [James Taylor], either [version] would be a fine introduction." Given the audience you're addressing here, is it possible that there exists a stone Joni fan who, if not also a stone JT fan, does not own any of his work? How can that be? The horror ... - -Fred Simon >>"Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: >>One of my co-workers has been recommending The Blue Man Group to me ever >>since she found out I love music. Several times she asked me if I had bought >>one of their CDs. I kept making excuses until one day, she asked me flat out, >>"*Why* don't you buy their CD?" >> >>My directness gets me into as much trouble at work as it does here on the >>JMDL. I said, "Angie, they're a video act. It's fun to watch them on the >>Tonight Show, but what I love is "old school" singer-songwriters. I love >>well-told stories. The Blue Man Group is more like a circus act." >> >>Needless to say, she stopped short. >> >>Two weeks ago, she was curious about a pianist called "Jim Brinkman". I did >>some research and found out that she meant a Windham Hill artist, "Jim >>Brickman". I went back and said, 'I think it's great that you're branching >>out. I love piano too. One of my internet buddies, Fred Simon, has played >>piano on tons of albums. Here's a collection of piano tracks called "Songs Of >>My Youth, vol. 1". Try it out.' >> >>She loves it but she didn't say when she'll be returning it. :) >> >>All the best, Jim >> >>np: James Taylor's "(LIVE)". They really got the sound right. There are 2 >>editions of this. One is a single-cd for "non majors" called something like >>'greatest hits live'. I liked it so much I sold it and bought the 2-cd >>version. The title begins and ends with parentheses and is shown in all caps: >>"(LIVE)". >> >>For people who have nothing from this artist, either would be a fine >>introduction. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 02:39:44 -0500 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: On inventing chords - Amelia analysis - ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: steph@cix.co.uk (Anita Tedder) Reply-To: steph@cix.co.uk Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 13:18 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) > Amelia as always been a big fave of mine > - but I was never taken with the Tlog version > (and I love that album). I suppose this always > comes back to that indefinable aspect of music > that I/we call 'feel'. In the Tlog version, > the orchestra sits beautifully and sweetly - > yet in Joni's original versions, that bleak, > lonely propeller engine chord that (for > me)rumbles under 'And looking down on EVERYONE' > or 'then your life becomes a TRAVELOGUE' > on the guitar just doesn't cut it at all for me > on Tlog. In fact, the Tlog Amelia sounds so sweet > to my ears it simply doesn't work. I wonder if that > is because it is so 'filled in' with the 'correct' > chords? There is something about the space between > sounds as well as the actual sounds themselves that > creates the mood of the song. I think I am trying to > describe things that are very hard without having the > music theory language - but I am asking those with > music theory if that might be so? Is there any language > for that? Very much appreciate your input if you have > time. Hi Anita - I can only speak from the experience of having had some piano instruction to the effect that the rests - i.e., the places where you don't play notes - are just as important as the places where you do play notes (there may be terminology for this in music theory, but I don't know what it is). Of course, in T'logue, there are certainly rests and there is breathing in the music, but the rich orchestration of the T'logue songs is of course totally different than Joni solo with her guitar. I personally much prefer all of Joni's unorchestrated recordings (although I thought the songs of BSN were interesting, except for BSN and ACOY), and share your views about the Hejira version of Amelia. Sorry I can't be more helpful! All the best, Marian ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #24 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)