From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #23 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, January 25 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 023 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Karaoke Joni ["Dylan Rush" ] Tom Rush - Urge for Going ["Paul Castle" ] Re: Karaoke Joni [=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= ] Re: Karaoke Joni [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Karaoke Joni [Musicloverrick@aol.com] Re: Karaoke Joni [Musicloverrick@aol.com] Re: Joni & Neil - a pop quiz....some Joni Content [Musicloverrick@aol.com] re: Karaoke Joni ["mia ortlieb" ] Re: Karaoke Joni [Musicloverrick@aol.com] RE: Tom Rush - Urge for Going ["Kate Bennett" ] I like Edwards! ["anon anon" ] Re: Joni & Neil - a pop quiz....some Joni Content [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] "Journey" ["anon anon" ] Re: On inventing chords - Amelia analysis [Randy Remote ] Re: "Journey" ["anon anon" ] Re: On inventing chords - Amelia analysis [Emiliano ] Taming the Tyger ["mia ortlieb" ] Today in History: January 25 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 19:52:36 +1100 From: "Dylan Rush" Subject: Re: Karaoke Joni >Wondering if any other Joni tunes have ever ended up on the >karaoke lists? And who may have sung them ?? I have seen a karaoke CD with Carole King and Joni songs on it... it had Help Me, Both Sides Now, Woodstock and Chelsea Morning. I think Raised on Robbery would be a great one to do at a karaoke bar! Ditto for Carey, Car On A Hill, and Wild Things Run Fast. _________________________________________________________________ E-mail just got a whole lot better. New ninemsn Premium. Click here http://ninemsn.com.au/premium/landing.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 10:00:17 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Tom Rush - Urge for Going Thanks for the Tom Rush thread - it led me to re-read this http://www.jonimitchell.com/TRush98.html by Wally Breese from "A Conversation with Tom Rush" March 7, 1998 with a Real audio extract of his version of 'Urge for Going'. http://www.tomrush.com/audio/urge.ram (which should fire up if you have a Real Audio player on your computer) - wish it was the whole song! I think it is interesting, reading this passage from the second part of Wally's interview, that in the record business, really, nothing seems to have changed much over the last 20 years or so - >"eventually I started getting curious because I was reading all about the terrible woes of the record industry, and Columbia, I think, had lost $53 million in 1980 when I went in for a talk with them because I had gotten intrigued as to where this audience had gone, because it was a huge audience. How come all of a sudden ... did their ears fall off, did they all die? It would have been in the papers. So where did they go? The upshot of it all was that they were still around and they are now once again buying records and going to concerts, but I had some pretty amusing conversations with record industry execs about this problem. There was one board meeting that I went to where the question of why the baby boomers were not buying records, had finally occurred to these executives. This is the biggest pile of money in the history of the world, the American Baby Boom, and the record industry let them walk out of the room without a fight. They somehow decided that 18-23 was their target market, and at that time that demographic was dwindling every year, and they let this huge audience get away from them simply by ignoring them, and this one executive stood up at this meeting and said "Maybe the reason they're not buying records is that we're not making records that they want to buy." And there was this long silence and the guy got embarrassed and sat down and the conversation went on to other things, but basically that is what happened. They stopped making records that the baby boomers wanted to buy." > Very best PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 10:12:00 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: Re: Karaoke Joni Well, in The 2 Brewers in Clapham on Tuesday nights, it's Karaoke night and my flatmate Rachel and I often go down to sing and I'm often tempted to to attempt 'California' because it's on there on this guy's karaoke menu.... But I don't think my baritone would work, I'd probably have to do it entirely in falsetto!!! One day, maybe one day... If it were a less 'professional' crowd perhaps I would but I know that most of the customers in there on karaoke night are out of work musical theatre actors and do near-perfect renditions of their favourite Shania Twain or Brecht depending on what they were auditioning for... IT's a hard hard world on the London karaoke circuit.... Much Joni Jamie Zoob (who has finally found a house and is moving in mid Feb and typing this from work) --- michael o'malley wrote: > OK, its time to fess up, how many of you have ever > done a Joni tune in a > karaoke session in some smokey bar somewhere ? ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 13:18 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: steph@cix.co.uk (Anita Tedder) Subject: On inventing chords - Amelia analysis I have been fascinated by this thread and very much appreciate Jenny and Marian and Les (and whoever else I might have missed) looking in such depth at what is going on musically in this song. Sadly, I have studied music theory at a very low level and never got my head round it very well so only relate to the feel of things. What I've notice when I try to sing Amelia in the car is how hard it is to sing the last two of each verse without a guitar! I was with some friends and they were quite startled by my rendition o what they said was 'a dirge,' I guess that says a lot about my singing :~) However, I also wonder if that's because (as you guys were saying) is that Amelia doesn't settle in any one key making it very hard to do a sing-a-long version of it unaccompanied! Amelia as always been a big fave of mine - but I was never taken with the Tlog version (and I love that album). I suppose this always comes back to that indefinable aspect of music that I/we call 'feel'. In the Tlog version, the orchestra sits beautifully and sweetly - yet in Joni's original versions, that bleak, lonely propeller engine chord that (for me)rumbles under 'And looking down on EVERYONE' or 'then your life becomes a TRAVELOGUE' on the guitar just doesn't cut it at all for me on Tlog. In fact, the Tlog Amelia sounds so sweet to my ears it simply doesn't work. I wonder if that is because it is so 'filled in' with the 'correct' chords? There is something about the space between sounds as well as the actual sounds themselves that creates the mood of the song. I think I am trying to describe things that are very hard without having the music theory language - but I am asking those with music theory if that might be so? Is there any language for that? Very much appreciate your input if you have time. Thanks Anita ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 08:03:08 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni & Neil - a pop quiz Thanks to all who submitted entries in my pop quiz! That was fun and I'll see if I can think up some more. I did get three winners, and they are: Emiliano Monica Victor Here's my answer key: 1. Neil Young backs Joni on what OFFICIALLY released recording? Neil plays harmonica on Hejira's "Furry Sings The Blues" 2. Joni backs Neil on what OFFICIALLY released recording? Joni sings backup to "Helpless" on The Last Waltz 3. Neil wrote a song about Joni - what's its title? Sweet Joni 4. Joni has sung (but not released) a Neil song - what's its title? Sugar Mountain 5. What Joni song is an answer to a Neil song? "The Circle Game", which as Richard Flynn pointed out is an answer to the above-referenced Sugar Mountain 6. Which of these artists has NOT covered both a Joni and a Neil song: a. Tori Amos "A Case Of You" & "Heart Of Gold" b. Claudine Longet "Both Sides Now" & "Birds" c. Annie Lennox "Ladies Of The Canyon" & "Don't Let It Bring You Down" d. Sarah McLachlan "Blue", but has never recorded/released a Neil cover e. Indigo Girls "River" & coincidentally "Down By The River", both from 1200 Curfews So, I was looking for "d", Sarah McLachlan as a correct answer, but because Victor turned the internet inside out finding a live Neil cover by her I gave him credit. Thanks again to all who participated. Bob NP: Sun Kil Moon, "Salvador Sanchez" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 08:21:22 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Joni & Neil - a pop quiz > e. Indigo Girls > "River" & coincidentally "Down By The River", both from 1200 Curfews and just for the record, "Rockin' in the Free World" which was released as part of a 4 song promo. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 08:36:03 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Karaoke Joni **OK, its time to fess up, how many of you have ever done a Joni tune in a karaoke session in some smokey bar somewhere ? Well, it wasn't a smoky bar...the last time I did Karaoke was at work, after hours, we were having a project milestone celebration and my co-workers gave me the urge for going to sing. As fate would have it, the date was 11/7 - that's right, Siquomb's b-day, and I came real close to singing BYT which was on the song list but since it can be a bitch to sing if it's not in the right key I opted for Tommy Tutone's "867-5309" instead, which I of course nailed. ;~) I have since acquired via ebay a Joni karaoke tape called "You Sing The Hits of Joni Mitchell" with 5 songs on it. Maybe I can get it to Jonifest and it can be used for some singalongs or something. Bob NP: The Hang Ups, "Little Blue" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 11:28:05 EST From: Musicloverrick@aol.com Subject: Re: Karaoke Joni Hey guys if you all are really into karaoke and do it on a regular basis, take a Joni CD with you that you already own and see if they can zap the lyrics off of it...Some karaoke machines are set up to do this...actually lots of them are....and they have a mixed success rate...Sometimes they completely zap them off so you can sing over the actual music...and at other times it sounds like you are singing with the artist backing you up...So try that if you wanna sing something of Joni's that isn't available on a standard karaoke tape or CD....Rick [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of Shania Twain 1 .gif] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 11:31:16 EST From: Musicloverrick@aol.com Subject: Re: Karaoke Joni Well if I could find "California" on a karaoke CD I would DIE to sing it! You should try it at home first and see what you sound like...get someone to give you an honest opinion and be objective about it, and then go from there. That way if you are embarrassed of messing up you won't. Rick [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of Shania Twain 1 .gif] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 11:34:46 EST From: Musicloverrick@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni & Neil - a pop quiz....some Joni Content Well on a personal note if there were to be anyone to cover a Joni song, I think Sarah Mclaughlin would be GREAT for the job because in my opniion she has the perfect voice to do so.....WOULD LOVE to hear her do something from Joni's early days, maybe from "Blue", "For The Roses," or "Court And Spark." Anyone else have an opinion? Rick [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of Shania Twain 1 .gif] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 11:34:23 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: Karaoke Joni All I've seen in the Milwaukee area is "Help Me" on Karaoke. And there is NO WAY I'm even going to try to attempt that one.....but then again, there's no telling what I'll do with a few shots of tequilla in my belly :) I've also seen "Big Yellow Taxi" on this lists. But it was never the Joni version. I think it may have been the Counting Crows version, and it never sounded very good on karaoke. Mia _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE online virus check for your PC here, from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 12:39:47 EST From: Musicloverrick@aol.com Subject: Re: Karaoke Joni Well the only version of "Big Yellow Taxi" I've seen on karaoke is the Amy Grant version, and I do quite well with that one when I sing...I think the Counting Crows butchered the hell out that song...I was MAD...LOL Rick NP....Mary J. Blige, "Beautiful Ones." [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of Shania Twain 1 .gif] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 09:40:13 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Tom Rush - Urge for Going LOL...tom is so smart & so funny... >I had gotten intrigued as to where this audience had gone, because it was a huge audience. How come all of a sudden ... did their ears fall off, did they all die? It would have been in the papers.< ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 13:26:11 -0500 From: "anon anon" Subject: I like Edwards! I really like John Edwards.I think he's make a great president.I just hope he's not considered too inexperianced to defeat that dispicable moron we have now,GW Bush... _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE online virus check for your PC here, from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 13:57:19 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni & Neil - a pop quiz....some Joni Content **WOULD LOVE to hear her do something from Joni's early days, maybe from "Blue", ** Sarah has recorded the title track from "Blue", Rick...it IS a beauty and pretty easy to find. Plus she did a group singalong of BYT in a Lilith Fair appearance, that's a little rough around the edges though. Bob NP: Kathleen Edwards, "Sweet Little Duck" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 15:40:46 -0500 From: "anon anon" Subject: "Journey" I agree absolutly that Wesley Clark loving Journey is a great reason to disqualify him as a candidate,but what really suprised me,while reading the "Joni Mitchell Companion" is that Joni is at least somewhat of a fan.To me,the music is just hideous,though it does bring back some nice times... _________________________________________________________________ High-speed usersbe more efficient online with the new MSN Premium Internet Software. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 12:43:47 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: On inventing chords - Amelia analysis Anita Tedder wrote: > In the Tlog > version, the orchestra sits beautifully and sweetly - yet in Joni's > original versions, that bleak, lonely propeller engine chord that (for > me)rumbles under > > 'And looking down on EVERYONE' > or > 'then your life becomes a TRAVELOGUE' > > on the guitar just doesn't cut it at all for me on Tlog. In fact, the Tlog > Amelia sounds so sweet to my ears it simply doesn't work. I wonder if that > is because it is so 'filled in' with the 'correct' chords? There is > something about the space between sounds as well as the actual sounds > themselves that creates the mood of the song. I think I am trying to > describe things that are very hard without having the music theory > language - I think you are describing two things- the first being the arrangement; which instruments play, what they play, and when (and even how). The Hejira version could be described as having a sparse arrangement, few instruments, lots of spaces. The other is the overall sound, including the timbre of the individual voice(s) and instruments, how they sound together, how they are mixed in the recording (out front? In the background?), the electronic effects (electric guitar with phaser? Delay?), the sound of the ambient space (the room it was recorded in or added electronic reverb) and other miscellanious things like what microphone was used, how it was positioned, the preamp it went through.... RR ps..then there is the sound of the medium itself...warm scratchy LP? hissy cassette? brittle CD? So I guess you are describing more than two things.. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 12:47:30 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: "Journey" Okay, I can accept Joni liking Journey, I guess...but she has being Joni going for her, he does not! anon anon wrote: > I agree absolutly that Wesley Clark loving Journey is a great reason to > disqualify him as a candidate,but what really suprised me,while reading the > "Joni Mitchell Companion" is that Joni is at least somewhat of a fan.To > me,the music is just hideous,though it does bring back some nice times... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:12:46 -0500 From: "anon anon" Subject: Re: "Journey" What REALLY should be the question put to them regarding whether or not they should be president is:"Do you think Joni Mitchell is the greatest singer on this planet?" If they say no,not only should they not be president,impeachment proceedings should immediatly begin in their home state... : Randy Remote >Reply-To: Randy Remote >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: "Journey" >Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 12:47:30 -0800 > >Okay, I can accept Joni liking Journey, I guess...but she has >being Joni going for her, he does not! > >anon anon wrote: > > > I agree absolutly that Wesley Clark loving Journey is a great reason >to > > disqualify him as a candidate,but what really suprised me,while reading >the > > "Joni Mitchell Companion" is that Joni is at least somewhat of a fan.To > > me,the music is just hideous,though it does bring back some nice >times... _________________________________________________________________ High-speed usersbe more efficient online with the new MSN Premium Internet Software. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 02:02:50 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: On inventing chords - Amelia analysis >[...] >. In fact, the Tlog > Amelia sounds so sweet to my ears it simply doesn't work. I wonder if that > is because it is so 'filled in' with the 'correct' chords? There is > something about the space between sounds as well as the actual sounds > themselves that creates the mood of the song. I think I am trying to > describe things that are very hard without having the music theory > language - but I am asking those with music theory if that might be so? Is > there any language for that? Very much appreciate your input if you have > time. > Thanks > Anita Hi, Anita! Very well said! I'm way much more musical theory challenged than you, and probably you've heard me repeating this over'n over again, but surely the T'Log version doesn't work for me (at least at the supreme level from Hejira): the problem may be, as I understand from your post, the excessive "filling" against the sparse (as Randy says): Amelia is the Real Number One, the jewel in the crown of intimate songwriters' music it's absolute hypnotic... but I guess the strings don't work, at least for me. I confess I cried of joy when I first heard the opening winds in Travelogue version, but your ferrolano is somewhat handicapped to enjoy very much songs with orchestra, and the actual harp and terrible drum playing in it... well, I like Travelogue, I'm glad Joni did it her way, but nothing will prevent me to play it one single time comparing to one thousand HEJIRAs! Have a Wonderful time! Emiliano NP: Love ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 17:38:28 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: "Journey" anon anon wrote: > What REALLY should be the question put to them regarding whether or > not they should be president is:"Do you think Joni Mitchell is the greatest > singer on this planet?" If they say no,not only should they not be > president,impeachment proceedings should immediatly begin in their home > state... Finally! Someone willing to address ISSUES! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 22:31:32 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: Taming the Tyger This may have been mentioned previously in the land of Joni talk, as I'm always behind the times. But I was reading some poetry by William Blake (poet of the romantic period) for school and came across this poem: The Tyger Tyger! Tyger! burning bright In the forests of the night, What immortal hand or eye Could frame thy fearful symmetry? In what distant deeps or skies Burnt the fire of thine eyes? On what wings dare he aspire? What the hand dare seize the fire? And what shoulder, and what art, Could twist the sinews of thy heart? And when that heart began to beat, What dread hand? and what dread feet? What the hammer? what the chain? In what furnace was thy brain? What the anvil? what dread grasp Dare its deadly terrors clasp? When the stars threw down their spears, And watered heaven with their tears, Did he smile his work to see? Did he who made the Lamb make thee? Tyger! Tyger! burning bright In the forests of the night, What immortal hand or eye Dare frame thy fearful symmetry? -- William Blake Has it been discussed before why Joni might have used references from this poem for her "Taming the Tiger?" It seems to me that Blake's poem is portraying the Tiger in a negative light, and perhaps Joni is countering that image by portraying the Tiger in a positive light. I like the way Joni has turned around the line about the stars throwing/chucking down their spears, and instead of the stars watering heaven with their tears, Joni thinks of her beloved friend Anna (who as I understand died in a plane accident?) as fireworks in the sky. Much more positive imagery than a crying heaven imo. Any one care to comment on the juxtaposition of the two works? Mia _________________________________________________________________ Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! http://shopping.msn.com/softcontent/softcontent.aspx?scmId=1418 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 02:07:23 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: January 25 1976: Joni performed at the Houston Astrodome in Houston, Texas at the 'Night Of the HURRICANE 2' - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #23 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)