From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #20 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, January 22 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 020 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: On inventing chords - Hejira analysis - CORRECTION ["Marian Russell" ] Re: why would someone be cutting at a party? ["mike pritchard" ] Re: Joni and the Raelians [Catherine McKay ] Re: why would someone be cutting at a party? [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Joni for Kids, now Posall & Mosalm [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: On inventing chords - Amelia analysis [Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: On inventing chords - Hejira analysis - CORRECTION The first intro chord of Hejira is ii of the tonic (tonic is C). The second intro chord is major and a half-tone above the ii, which isn't III of the tonic. It's an example of chromaticism. Howard calls it Eb6/9 in his transcription. It can be related to the key of C as the IV/IV/IV - i.e. the sub-dominant of Bb which is the sub-dominant of F which is the sub-dominant of C. I don't know if you can do this in music theory, though! Maybe we could also call it a Bb6/9/sus4, which would make it only the IV/IV in the key of C. Anyway, it's just an intro chord and does not define the tonic for Hejira. The main chord progressions of Hejira are basically I, IV, V, as I said before. Marian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 10:12:35 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: why would someone be cutting at a party? I once had a very old copy of 'Brewer's Fact and Fable' and it mentioned many different types of 'cuts' (meaning here ways of averting the eyes from or ignoring the 'victim'; 'cutting someone dead', rather than merely being cutting). One I remember was the 'cut sublime' in which the cutter looks heavenward in order to avoid the cutee's eyes. Any librarians out there have this available? I'd like to know the other types. mike np - Fred Simon - Michael from Mountains ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 21:28:14 +1100 From: "Dylan Rush" Subject: Joni and the Raelians Remember the Raelians, the weird cult from outerspace who claimed to have cloned a human baby? They've just opened a radio station in Australia, I noticed this in the Sydney Morning Herald: "The Raelians have hit the radiowaves. Spike was contacted yesterday by DJ and "guide" Tora Blackman with news that the local arm of the cult, which believes humans were created by an alien super race, has been preaching to late-night listeners in Lismore. Blackman has held the Sunday night slot on FM 2NCR for the past five weeks and told Spike she spends her two-hour program "informing people about the message that we are a deliberate scientific creation from another humanity in space". She also raps lyrical with her message of "self-responsibilisation", in between tunes by the Black Eyed Peas, JONI MITCHELL and Celine Dion. Curiously, though, she is yet to play hip-hop singer Lauryn Hill, who was recently anointed as the Raelians' "honorary guide" for criticising the Catholic Church." wow... wonder which joni song it was? probably "man from mars" *boom-tish* _________________________________________________________________ E-mail just got a whole lot better. New ninemsn Premium. Click here http://ninemsn.com.au/premium/landing.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 07:07:36 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni and the Raelians --- Dylan Rush wrote: > Remember the Raelians, the weird cult from > outerspace who claimed to have > cloned a human baby? ... > She also raps lyrical with her message of > "self-responsibilisation", in > between tunes by the Black Eyed Peas, JONI MITCHELL > and Celine Dion. Or maybe "Judgment of the moon and stars", "Moon at the window" or "God must be a boogie man." ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:03:49 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: why would someone be cutting at a party? > np - Fred Simon - Michael from Mountains > > Mike, > > How wonderful to see Fred9s name here. For those who are new, Fred, who lives > in Chicago, is, along with David Lahm and Roberto Holliston, one of our > 3Premier Pianists2 on the list. > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:50:05 EST From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Joni mention in the Out traveler Yesterday my Advocate arrived and with it the Out Traveler came as well. On page 26 Side by Side has gay sites in the Village and Chelsea. It says Hotel Chelsea on 23rd street, which housed Tennessee Williams, Robert Mapplrthorpe, Joni Mitchell and Janis Joplin. Yes Gays' are so much fun:~)! Peace Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 14:49:14 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Re: Joni for Kids I've just stumbled on this site http://users3.ev1.net/~wbthomp/LP-LIST-1981.html where the writer [Bill Thompson of The Thompsonian Institution] claims to have donated, amongst others, a vinyl album by Joni called 'THE POSALL AND THE MOSALM' to his local library, which subsequently "burned to the ground". Are these the 2nd Fret recordings? Do any drawings of her "little woman creature petal thing" exist? - I see a lovely children's picture book. very best PaulC PMSIALL or MMSIALM (perhaps my soul is a little lady or maybe my soul is a little man) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 10:08:15 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni for Kids, now Posall & Mosalm Subject: Re: On inventing chords - Amelia analysis Dflahm@aol.com wrote:Recently, I have become increasingly suspicious that they are a useful labeling system with which we can assert briefly whether musical artifact A resembles or duplicates musical artifact B. They give us a terminology with which we can talk to each other. Perhaps no more than that, finito. It's nice to have a language for exploring certain sounds and chord progressions that resonate strongly in me. That's what is most interesting when analyzing Joni's music. And I come away having a larger toolbox to rummage through when writing myself. Dflahm@aol.com wrote:I believe I'd be receptive to an explanation of how theory accounts for the greatness and originality of JM's writing. Here's a link to an article Les brought to our attention a while back. It's a VERY academic analysis of Joni's compositional styles and use of harmony in her early career. on the pedantic side - but the author obviously also has a great respect and love for joni. http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1056 Jenny also enjoying this thread Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:32:32 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: On inventing chords - Amelia analysis Well, I only have one year of formal study and that was 16 years ago, so I'm not much help in illuminating the Amelia analysis. But, I've been thinking about it since yesterday and I think what Joni is doing in this song is technically modulating between C and G and even F. I am honestly fascinated by this and not trying to debate. I have a feeling there is more than one way to correctly analyze this song anyway because she hovers in between keys without committing fully to one. However, I'm not familiar with the term used to describe using chords related to the IV and V without firmly modualting, Marian. And this sounds like what is going on. So if you dig that up, let me know, I'd be interested. Jenny Marian Russell wrote: >Randy Remote wrote: >I agree that Amelia can be thought of as being in C- >(although, in determining a key, 99% of the time, the >key is the same as the first chord, so; Dm, but >close enough). Well, if we think of "the first chord", I would rather go with G - where she starts singing. Most of Joni's songs have some kind of cute introduction that is not always repeated later and doesn't always define the key of the song. But if we go with G as being the root, then it's harder to explain the Bbmaj and the F, although the F could be explained by thinking of the song as being in mixolydian mode, as Jenny said. I think the Eb that I mentioned is actually more of a Bbsus4. I was trying to explain the Bb as the IV/IV - the sub-dominant of the sub-dominant F in the key of C and the Bm as the iii/V (the minor third of the dominant G of the key of C). It is usual in music to have chords related to the IV and the V of the root without modulating firmly into either the IV or the V. There is terminology for this in my music theory books at home. I will try to find it. Would love to hear from anyone with more recent study of music theory (mine is about 25 years old!). Marian Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 10:05:06 -0800 From: "Russell Bowden" Subject: Songs to aging Children (shudder) Come. JC= song titles Gang, This should get me banned from the list.......OK....so I'm one of those rotten nasty people who is all for ZERO POPULATION GROWTH...I mean...where the hell are these little people going to live in 30 or 40 years?? STOP THE MADNESS.....ADOPT!!!!!!!!!!! Songs for people who are thinking about have a dozen kids or so: Little Green Chinese Cafe Ethiopia Sex Kills Chalk Mark in a Rainstorm (Beat of Black Wings) The Fiddle and the Drum Harry's House ...and they might try reading that forgotten classic...The Populaiton Bomb by Paul Erlich..I think. Russ in Hawai'i.....where there is apparently no such thing as birth control. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rethink your business approach for the new year with the helpful tips here. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 14:02:19 -0500 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: On inventing chords - Amelia analysis On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:32:32 -0800 (PST), Jenny Goodspeed wrote: >However, I'm not familiar with the term used to >describe using chords related to the IV and V >without firmly modualting, Marian. And this >sounds like what is going on. So if you dig >that up, let me know, I'd be interested. Okay. From Piston, Harmony, Fourth Edition: The Nonmodulating sequence [this is about sequences - i.e., repeated melodic patterns - actually, but I think it pertains - I can probably find something more], p 298: "The sequence is either a modulating sequence, ***changing the tonal center with each transposition of the pattern***, or a nonmodulating sequence, sometimes called a tonal sequence, with one tonal center throughout. "In the nonmodulating sequence, the transpositions oare made to degrees of the scale of the key... "...The nonmodulating sequence is likely to contain variation, too, in the interval of transposition of the pattern... "...The employment of secondary dominants in the nonmodulating sequence adds the harmonic color of tones foreign to the scale of the main tonality, contributes the rhythmic element of dissonance, and emphasizes the unity of the group of chords comprising the pattern....." Then there are some examples given of nonmodulating sequences where the chords in Bb are: V of VI, VI, V of IV, IV, V of II, II .... D7 , gm , Bb7 , Eb, G7 , cm These kinds of chord changes seem even more dramatic than the chord progressions of Amelia, and yet the tonal center of this example is given as Bb. Marian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 11:29:49 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni for Kids, now Posall & Mosalm SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > Sort of...they are excerpts from the Gene Sciaky interviews > which also featured some of the Second Fret recordings. > > JMDLer's are fortunate to have these interviews and recordings > in their entirety as a result of the tape trees, which are > also available on CDR. Even better news is that the audio > quality of the recordings that we have access to is superior > to the Posall & Mosalm bootleg. ....which was quite bad ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 21:30:54 EST From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Wally's posts and AOL << From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: What do we all do for a living (VLJC) (for AOL users) Wally says [remember, I'm only forwarding wally's posts since they don't make, strangely, their way to AOL users] >> Emiliano: I'm using a Mac on AOL and I read Wally"s posts with no problem. Kenny B ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #20 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)