From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #17 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, January 19 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 017 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- On Inventing chords, 100% Joni Content ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Political Lyrics Game and TTT [Melissa ] Re: C&S in Grammy Hall of Fame [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: C&S in Grammy Hall of Fame ["Dylan Rush" ] What genre is Hejira? ["Dylan Rush" ] Re: Joni's techniques - picking and painting [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Joni's techniques - picking and painting [Dflahm@aol.com] [none] [simon@icu.com] "I HAVE A DREAM" [simon@icu.com] Dr. King, Not! a dreamer [simon@icu.com] Loving Joni, but not her music ["Kevin Arshad" ] Re: What we do for a living (VLJC) [Musicloverrick@aol.com] Re: "The Arrangement" now back to jc ["J.David Sapp" ] Re: Some are friendly,some are cutting... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: What genre is Hejira? ["amelio747" ] Re: Play the "Joni's Political Lyrics" game! very little JC ["kakki" ] Re: Loving Joni, but not her music ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] Re: Joni stuff and trades [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Some are friendly, some are cutting... ["mike pritchard" ] Re: C&S in Grammy Hall of Fame [Randy Remote ] Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #34 [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: What I do for a living VLJC [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Loving Joni but not her music... SJC ["Lucy Hone" ] Re: Loving Joni but not her music... SJC ["Kevin Arshad" Subject: On Inventing chords, 100% Joni Content Hi Howard, It's been a long time since I've seen a post from you. If you haven't heard Marian Russell play Overture/Cotton Avenue, you should. Marian makes it look as easy as drinking a glass of ice water. It's totally organic. Her grace seems totally at odds with the percussive slaps- the tension that Joni puts in there. I write about it at least three times per year because my mouth fell open. Another great slapping song is after the birthday rap on MINGUS. There's an ambient effect then she starts barking and slapping "God Must Be A Boogie Man". Joni and Jaco barking at each other. Life doesn't get any better. I wonder if Monk ever heard that album. All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu From the UK, Howard said in part, >>When playing the electric, her style is certainly different. But personally, I think the change in her right-hand technique (intricate picking, then more rhythmic strumming/slapping) came about on the acoustic. Personally, I love her later style - the way she manages to combine a mini percussion section with the strumming, by tapping and slapping the strings, is a source of constant wonder to me. I'm a sucker for poly-rhythms and off-beat stuff > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:45:50 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: C&S in Grammy Hall of Fame >>Court and Spark in Grammy Hall of Fame<< How nice of the music 'industry' (sic) to name an award after Diane Keaton's grandmother. mike in barcelona NP Fairport Convention - Tam Lin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:24:36 +1100 From: Melissa Subject: Re: Political Lyrics Game and TTT Apologies if these have already been listed, but my contributions to the political lyrics game are: Raised on Robbery: They were pushing through a four lane highway Government gave us three thousand dollars You should have seen it fly away Chinese Cafe: Uranium money Is booming in the old home town now It's putting up sleek concrete Tearing the old landmarks down now Paving over brave little parks Ripping off Indian land again How long how long Short sighted business men Ah nothing lasts for long As for TTT, I too find it somewhat under-rated. I particularly love the lines in "Love Puts on a New Face": About a month or so later he said, "Why can't you be happy? You make me feel helpless when you get this way" I said, "I'm up to my neck in alligators - Jaws gnashing at me! Every one trying to pull a piece away!" Love the title track too! NP: TTT (of course!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 06:35:51 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: C&S in Grammy Hall of Fame **Are there others like that ? I forget, but it seems like there must have been. Well, there's the segue from Otis & Marlena to Tenth World, and it probably doesn't count since you're talking about studio work, but the S&L trifecta of "Amelia/Pat's Solo/Hejira" is pretty darn swell too. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 23:31:37 +1100 From: "Dylan Rush" Subject: RE: C&S in Grammy Hall of Fame >As an aside, bringing up The Same Situation reminds me of my much I love >the way Joni from time to time segues one song into another: Such as Lesson >in Survival / Let the Wind Carry Me, and Boho Dance/Harry's House, in >addition to People's Parties/Same Situation. > >Are there others like that ? I forget, but it seems like there must have >been. The Trouble Child/Twisted segue is quite nice, but the all-time best Joni segue ever is Otis and Marlena/The Tenth World. In and out, in and out, those thundering piano chords, Joni's eery wailing, the percussion brooding underneath the surface, before it's final emergence and the eight minutes of glorious Latin fever that follows. One of the greatest moments on DJRD. _________________________________________________________________ ninemsn Premium transforms your e-mail with colours, photos and animated text. Click here http://ninemsn.com.au/premium/landing.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 23:37:28 +1100 From: "Dylan Rush" Subject: What genre is Hejira? I've just been thinking about this... You really can't categorize Hejira can you? It's a style all it's own. It's not pop, it's not folk, it's not rock, it's not jazz, it's somewhere in between - it's just Joni. Or is there a word for that style of music? _________________________________________________________________ Hot chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilemania/default.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 08:46:49 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's techniques - picking and painting Howard posted: Later on, her guitar style is an audio equivalent of using broader brush strokes - less concerned with the exact details of which string to hit at each precise point, but more concerned with rhythmic, dynamic and textural effects. The analogy with her painting can't be taken too literally, but the amount of fine detail is certainly much, much less in her later paintings. I have often felt this way about Joni's guitar playing, too. However, I think the analogy Howard draws between the development of her painting styles and picking styles is so strong as to be almost incontrovertible. Not that I'm not a novice in painting styles - I am less than that. But if it is apparent to me, then I conclude it must be pretty obvious indeed. :-) A very fine post, overall, from a true professor of Joni's instrumental work. Thanks, Howard Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:28:53 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's techniques - picking and painting Yes, Howard's discussion was clear, pertinent and comprehensive. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 10:09:09 -0500 From: simon@icu.com Subject: [none] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 10:42:04 -0500 From: simon@icu.com Subject: "I HAVE A DREAM" JONI MITCHELL: "They kill people who give hope in this culture." "I HAVE A DREAM" by The Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Delivered on the steps at the Lincoln Memorial, Washington D.C. August 28, 1963 _____________ Five score years ago, a great American, in whose symbolic shadow we stand signed the Emancipation Proclamation. This momentous decree came as a great beacon light of hope to millions of Negro slaves who had been seared in the flames of withering injustice. It came as a joyous daybreak to end the long night of captivity. But one hundred years later, we must face the tragic fact that the Negro is still not free. One hundred years later, the life of the Negro is still sadly crippled by the manacles of segregation and the chains of discrimination. One hundred years later, the Negro lives on a lonely island of poverty in the midst of a vast ocean of material prosperity. One hundred years later, the Negro is still languishing in the corners of American society and finds himself an exile in his own land. So we have come here today to dramatize an appalling condition. In a sense we have come to our nation's capital to cash a check. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all men would be guaranteed the inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. It is obvious today that America has defaulted on this promissory note insofar as her citizens of color are concerned. Instead of honoring this sacred obligation, America has given the Negro people a bad check which has come back marked "insufficient funds." But we refuse to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt. We refuse to believe that there are insufficient funds in the great vaults of opportunity of this nation. So we have come to cash this check -- a check that will give us upon demand the riches of freedom and the security of justice. We have also come to this hallowed spot to remind America of the fierce urgency of now. This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off or to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism. Now is the time to rise from the dark and desolate valley of segregation to the sunlit path of racial justice. Now is the time to open the doors of opportunity to all of God's children. Now is the time to lift our nation from the quicksands of racial injustice to the solid rock of brotherhood. It would be fatal for the nation to overlook the urgency of the moment and to underestimate the determination of the Negro. This sweltering summer of the Negro's legitimate discontent will not pass until there is an invigorating autumn of freedom and equality. Nineteen sixty-three is not an end, but a beginning. Those who hope that the Negro needed to blow off steam and will now be content will have a rude awakening if the nation returns to business as usual. There will be neither rest nor tranquility in America until the Negro is granted his citizenship rights. The whirlwinds of revolt will continue to shake the foundations of our nation until the bright day of justice emerges. But there is something that I must say to my people who stand on the warm threshold which leads into the palace of justice. In the process of gaining our rightful place we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred. We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force. The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the Negro community must not lead us to distrust of all white people, for many of our white brothers, as evidenced by their presence here today, have come to realize that their destiny is tied up with our destiny and their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom. We cannot walk alone. And as we walk, we must make the pledge that we shall march ahead. We cannot turn back. There are those who are asking the devotees of civil rights, "When will you be satisfied?" We can never be satisfied as long as our bodies, heavy with the fatigue of travel, cannot gain lodging in the motels of the highways and the hotels of the cities. We cannot be satisfied as long as the Negro's basic mobility is from a smaller ghetto to a larger one. We can never be satisfied as long as a Negro in Mississippi cannot vote and a Negro in New York believes he has nothing for which to vote. No, no, we are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until justice rolls down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream. I am not unmindful that some of you have come here out of great trials and tribulations. Some of you have come fresh from narrow cells. Some of you have come from areas where your quest for freedom left you battered by the storms of persecution and staggered by the winds of police brutality. You have been the veterans of creative suffering. Continue to work with the faith that unearned suffering is redemptive. Go back to Mississippi, go back to Alabama, go back to Georgia, go back to Louisiana, go back to the slums and ghettos of our northern cities, knowing that somehow this situation can and will be changed. Let us not wallow in the valley of despair. I say to you today, my friends, that in spite of the difficulties and frustrations of the moment, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream. I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slaveowners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood. I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a desert state, sweltering with the heat of injustice and oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice. I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I have a dream today. I have a dream that one day the state of Alabama, whose governor's lips are presently dripping with the words of interposition and nullification, will be transformed into a situation where little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls and walk together as sisters and brothers. I have a dream today. I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight, and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together. This is our hope. This is the faith with which I return to the South. With this faith we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day. This will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with a new meaning, "My country, 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing. Land where my fathers died, land of the pilgrim's pride, from every mountainside, let freedom ring." And if America is to be a great nation this must become true. So let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire. Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York. Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania! Let freedom ring from the snowcapped Rockies of Colorado! Let freedom ring from the curvaceous peaks of California! But not only that; let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia! Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee! Let freedom ring from every hill and every molehill of Mississippi. From every mountainside, let freedom ring. When we let freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, Black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!" andmoreagain, ___________ simon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 10:42:33 -0500 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Dr. King, Not! a dreamer JONI MITCHELL: "They kill people who give hope in this culture." DUBBED PLACID, KING's MILITANT VOICE IS REVEALED By Maynard Eaton All too often the media, political leaders and too many historians miscast and misrepresent Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. as merely a placid, non-confrontational civil rights advocate who was content to focus on integration. The world has been duped into believing that the essence of Dr. King's message and mission is embodied in his "I Have A Dream" speech. While that marketing ploy and characterization of Dr. King's work and wizardry has made him a palatable folk hero, it has also skewed the substance of the King saga. That personification fails to recognize how this charismatic leader emerged as such a threat to America's economic interests he had to be eliminated. Those who worked with and marched with Dr. King say image-makers are attempting to sanitize this African-American icon. "Dr. King was a radical revolutionary," opines Georgia State Representative Tyrone Brooks, formerly the national field director for the Southern Christian Leadership Conference. "White America is trying to change the image of King so that our children and unborn generations will not view the real King that we knew. Dr. King was not someone who walked around dreaming all the time. Dr. King was an activist and a true revolutionary." "He was always militant," says former SCLC President Dr. Joseph Lowery of King. "Anybody who talks about staying off the buses and challenging folk to walk is militant. Talking about public accommodations and the denial of the voting rights; all that is militant. He was dynamically and actively militantly non-violent." Brooks contends that Dr. King was assassinated because he was about to redirect the civil rights movement into another dimension -- economic parity. "White America decided that this man has certainly been a catalyst in bringing about social change in terms of desegregation and voting rights, but now this man is talking about altering the way America does business and talking about a redistribution of American wealth to the poor and the disenfranchised," Brooks said. "It really upset America." Says Dr. Lowery of the discernable shift in Dr. King's thinking and leadership; "The movement moved away from the customer side of the lunch counter to the cash register side. People who were willing to deal with segregation and busing and lunch counters were not quite ready to deal with economic integration. And so he died. They didn't care about niggas riding the bus, but when you talk about owning the banks and dividing the pie up, that's another proposition. You're talking about a seat at the economic table and even today there is pretty stiff resistance [to that]." During the first decade of the civil rights movement, Martin Luther King, Jr. had been hesitant to become involved in other political issues, for fear of weakening the cause for racial justice. By 1967, however in a speech at Riverside Church in New York City that many considered momentous, he declared his opposition to the Vietnam War. That speech; that moment amounted to a paradigm shift for the movement and the man. "Peace and civil rights don't mix, [people] say," Dr. King said. "Aren't you hurting the cause of your people, they ask. And when I hear them, although I often understand the source of their concern, I am nevertheless greatly saddened, for such questions mean that the inquirers have not really known me, my commitment or my calling." "I knew that America would never invest the necessary funds or energies in rehabilitation of its poor so long as Vietnam continued to draw men and skills and money like some demonic, destructive suction tube," Dr. King continued. "So I was increasingly compelled to see the war as an enemy of the poor and to attack it as such? We were taking the young Black men who had been crippled by our society and sending them 8,000 miles away to guarantee liberties in Southeast Asia, which they had not found in Southwest Georgia and East Harlem." Both Lowery and Brooks say that after that controversial speech, Black and White America took a different view of King. "The war was about economics as well as humanness," Dr. Lowery argues. "Martin said 'the bombs that explode in Vietnam in the '60s will explode in our economy in the '70s and '80s.' And, it did." "[Dr. King] was roundly criticized by all the establishment Black leadership. They all condemned Dr. King for that speech," Rep. Brooks recalls. "They said he'd gone too far and that the movement ought not get involved with foreign affairs. King said look at the amount of money that is coming out the American taxpayers' pocket, including Black people, that's financing this war. After that speech, you saw the anti-war movement really grow, young, White liberals and other civil rights leaders got on board. So, the King speech at Riverside Church laid the foundation for that overwhelming American response which said the war must end now." Brooks said it is most important and ultimately tragic that people began to see Dr. King as just a civil rights leader who would focus on domestic policy, not as an international, global leader. Hopefully future generations will recognize that his deeds and his direction include far more than just his dream of integration. andmoreagain, ____________ simon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 10:48:16 -0600 From: "Kevin Arshad" Subject: Loving Joni, but not her music Could someone explain to me for what reason people are attracted to = Joni, if not for her music ? Why are so many on this list not interested = in great recordings of her beautiful performances ? There are many items = available in good sound quality; some in fair and others in less.=20 It's certainly the individuals perogative, but it seems very strange to = me that people here don't want to hear her live recordings to get a more = complete sense of Joni. The older recordings are ,without a doubt, of = historic importance and are some of the most other-worldly performances = I've ever heard; right on-par with Van's Astral Weeks. = Kevin I did read your initial post and I didn't respond as I have no trades to offer. =20 Vanessa I have nothing to share - not a collector of those sorts of things=20 Vince Like Vanessa, I don't have anything to trade. =20 Lori [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of LED.jpg] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 12:45:26 EST From: Musicloverrick@aol.com Subject: Re: What we do for a living (VLJC) Well ladies and gentlemen, I think you all have much more interesting jobs and careers than I do....I've mostly just done various retail work over the last ten years, since I was 17......Anyone can do that.....But some of the careers that you all have require real skill....I think I am in the company of a very interesting group of people, and glad to be so.....rick [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of Shania Twain 1 .gif] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 12:31:25 -0600 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: Re: "The Arrangement" now back to jc Here is what Joni says about The Arrangement: Joni's own evolvement into working with and within the jazz framework came about gradually. "It started, I would say, back on Ladies of the Canyon," she explains. "There was one song, 'The Arrangement,' which was predecessor (it was like a predecessor for 'Blue,' which came on the Blue album) which had a bit of that voicing-post-Stravinsky modern open-voicing-and in the chordal patterns, too. It's been very organic. It definitely wasn't rock 'n' roll voicing or movement." While you still have the time You could get away and find A better life, you know the grind Is so ungrateful Racing cars, whiskey bars No one cares who you really are courtesy - A Search For Clarity by Anthony Fawcett "California Rock, California Sound" 1978 JMDL LIBRARY. peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:25:28 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: What do we all do for a living (VLJC) i work as an applications consultant. my clients are people who want to apply to graduate university programs and phd's in the US, europe and canada. i help them create good application essays and position themselves competitively. i train them to beat the system and get fulbright scholarships and do effective interviews with the admissions committees and other big shots. i also teach standardized admission exams (GRE, GMAT, LSAT, etc) -- especially quantitative skills and critical reasoning -- to potential applicants, but only during the first part of the year. i teach english as a foreign language at advanced level and english usage for writers. i edit material for publication in english and i do a lot of ghostwriting. i have also translated lots of material into english -- both fiction and non-fiction. i am currently translating a book on araucanian dialects and meta-discourse to be published by the university of texas, of all places. i had very formal education -- i only finished high school. this year, at 43, i'll be going back to school! for the next five years i'll be studying to get a degree in clinical psychology. after that, i'll start my practice as a bug doctor and leave argentina. i'll probably move to canada or some nordic country when i'm 50. the joni content: i taught myself english listening to joni mitchell and using a dictionary and a grammar book. wally ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 14:28:35 -0500 From: "anon anon" Subject: Some are friendly,some are cutting... Why would anyone be cutting at a party? _________________________________________________________________ There are now three new levels of MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! Learn more. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=hotmail/es2&ST=1 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 14:38:26 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Some are friendly,some are cutting... Subject: Re: What genre is Hejira? Yes I I've always thought that! It sounded so dull when I first listened but of course I really love it now. I play it when I'm feeling mellow and by myself. All I can say is it's timeless, its Hejira! * * * * * * Stephen T "I get the urge for going But I never seem to go" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dylan Rush" To: Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 12:37 PM Subject: What genre is Hejira? > I've just been thinking about this... You really can't categorize Hejira can > you? It's a style all it's own. It's not pop, it's not folk, it's not rock, > it's not jazz, it's somewhere in between - it's just Joni. Or is there a > word for that style of music? > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hot chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to > http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilemania/default.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 12:53:45 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Play the "Joni's Political Lyrics" game! very little JC Mike wrote re: Joni's little lawyer lyrics: > And it could be interpreted as commenting (negatively) on whichever > government(s) policy allowed such rampant litigious behaviour become > established. I don't think it was any one government policy that led to the problems, but collectively years of laws being made and changed that overall bring in more money to the lawyers and not the people they represent. Laws that also increase insurance costs for everyone. The Trial Lawyers Assoc. is one of the largest and most powerful lobbies in the U.S. > And it could be interpreted as commenting (positively) on the ease with which > the 'little people' (the 'economically challenged') can if not 'get' justice, > then can at least participate in it, rather than justice being available only > for those able to afford the best lawyers. Unfortunately, in most cases of the "little people" bringing a lawsuit, the lawyers end up with most and sometimes all of the money awarded in damages, if their client wins. If they don't win the case for their client, the client still has to pay at least the costs to the lawyer. Costs can end up being more than legal fees in the end. I think Joni is referring to some of the personal injury lawyers that advertise on TV and say "I can get you a million dollars for your whiplash injury." Many people are tempted by such a promise and don't know how the system really works, i.e., in reality, certain injuries are often awarded an averaged amount, say $100,000 for whiplash. Meanwhile the lawyer, if he wins, gets about half of that, and then the costs of depositions, experts, photocopying, etc. are added on top of it. The client can often end up owing the attorney in the end. These are some of the reasons there has been a call for reform in the laws. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 13:20:40 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: Rick Burneson Subject: Living, Hobbies and Joni >>Hi all. I don't know if this has been done but wouldn't it be fun to see >>what we all do for a living and what our main hobby activity is and how do we >>attribute either to Joni's influence (if we do). >> For a living, I work for a company that makes bicyle racks for cars; some customer service, some design work, some writing of instruction sheets and ad copy. It's a small company so lots of variety, . . . but sorry, no Joni influence. Hobbies? I do a lot of long bicycle rides, the ones called "double centuries" because you ride 200 miles in a day. And when I'm on the bike for 15 - 17 hours I get to play a LOT of Joni songs back in my head. Examples? Sometimes these rides start at 4:30AM, so "Come in From the Cold" is popular! Then that one phrase from Nathan LaFraneer (sp?) "we climbed the canyons slowly" . . . I've climbed lots of canyons slowly! . . . . with that line cycling through my brain. Other Hobbies: Miata Club drives, v.often w/Joni on the CD, esp. Miles of Isles and Court & Spark for spirited top-down motoring! Rick From St.Louis, now in LA. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:25:46 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: Loving Joni, but not her music those of us who have been around for a few years or more have most oif or all fo everything available - I don't consider that collecting as I think of musical collecting - andf since I have no ability to copy, I could not trade - I denote a trace of insult in your question, may be just me since cyber words have no nuance, but we are all here keenly interested in her music - I have a shelf full at home of her music. Do you have anything from any of the Anger Management Tours with Eminem to trade? Vince Could someone explain to me for what reason people are attracted to Joni, if not for her music ? Why are so many on this list not interested in great recordings of her beautiful performances ? There are many items available in good sound quality; some in fair and others in less. It's certainly the individuals perogative, but it seems very strange to me that people here don't want to hear her live recordings to get a more complete sense of Joni. The older recordings are ,without a doubt, of historic importance and are some of the most other-worldly performances I've ever heard; ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 14:03:04 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Loving Joni, but not her music I think you've misunderstood so I will try to explain...there are lots of those performance recordings floating around & people on this list have them...like someone said, not everyone here trades them though...this list is something that you have to participate a bit in & let people get to know you as well as make your request about trades...I know someone will help you...its just not PRIMARILY a trading group...trading is a by product...hope this helps! >Could someone explain to me for what reason people are attracted to = Joni, if not for her music ? Why are so many on this list not interested = in great recordings of her beautiful performances ?< Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:28:01 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni stuff and trades Kevin wrote: "Could someone explain to me for what reason people are attracted to Joni, if not for her music ? Why are so many on this list not interested in great recordings of her beautiful performances ? There are many items available in good sound quality; some in fair and others in less. It's certainly the individuals perogative, but it seems very strange to me that people here don't want to hear her live recordings to get a more complete sense of Joni. The older recordings are ,without a doubt, of historic importance and are some of the most other-worldly performances I've ever heard; right on-par with Van's Astral Weeks." Kevin - sorry I was not among the many on this list who have not replied to your initial post (I plead being too busy at that time. And I also apologize if this response turns out to be off track.) There are many, many, many recordings of Joni's concerts, TV and radio appearances and coffee house bootlegs in the possession of many if not most members on this list. Many of them have been circulated on video and CD trees. Others are copied by members either for trade or - more commonly - at cost, and shared that way. There are a few members on this list whose collections are extensive and who have capabilities to copy and trade. I am not one of them. However, if your message is inclusive enough, and not judgmental or critical, I am confident you will get the responses you seek. So, part of the reason you get little response is that so many of us already have copies of so much of Joni's stuff. The rest may be up to you. If you would like me to help, feel free to contact me off list. Bob Sartorius PS - In answer to your first question, She Is Queen Undisputedly Of Mind Beauty (siquomb) :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 23:34:40 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: Some are friendly, some are cutting... Anon anon asked >>Why would anyone be cutting at a party?<< Bob replied >>Mike, I think she's referring to "cutting remarks", that is to say being gossipy.<< Thanks Bob - just clarifying that although the original questioner's address looks similar to mine, it was not from me. Who is 'anon anon'? mike in barcelona ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 14:39:40 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Loving Joni, but not her music Kevin Arshad wrote: > Could someone explain to me for what reason people are attracted to = > Joni, if not for her music ? Why are so many on this list not interested = > in great recordings of her beautiful performances ? Besides the explanations already offered, Joni has made quite a few excellent official live recordings and videos that satisfy the "live Joni" craving. As already mentioned, alot of her best unreleased stuff is pretty widely circulated in these parts. Plus trading requires special equipment (burner, etc) and some people don't have the time or gear to deal with it. Also, if I recall from your list, you seem to have just about everything! dsk wrote: > You mentioned on list wanting full videos of the clips that were part of > "Woman of Heart and Mind." > I suggest that you investigate it yourself, and write to > the director or the American Masters show > This is just not going to happen. The clips in question are copyrighted material that they license for use in the video. It would certainly be illegal for them to share those with anyone. It would be nice if the companies that hold those things could put out some kind of a DVD box set or something. Alot of things that are bootlegged or traded have been stolen or secretly copied from the studios, or sometimes from the artists themselves or their friends. Others are things that have been recorded off radio or TV broadcasts by fans. Of course, trading or copying official releases that are still available commercially is a big no-no (not that anyone is suggesting that). RR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 14:44:59 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: C&S in Grammy Hall of Fame Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: > As an aside, bringing up The Same Situation reminds me of my much I love the > way Joni from time to time segues one song into another: Such as Lesson in > Survival / Let the Wind Carry Me, and Boho Dance/Harry's House, in addition to > People's Parties/Same Situation. > > Are there others like that ? I forget, but it seems like there must have been. The first one, I think is BYT>Woodstock on LOTC. A tape edit, as some of the others seem to be. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:55:34 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #34 In a message dated 1/19/2004 1:21:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > > Subject: RE: What do we all do for a living (VLJC) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:12:22 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: What I do for a living VLJC My "career" has definitely been an evolution and certainly not always with any kind of logical progression or upward path (years of substance abuse/illness didn't help). But anyway, for the past four years I have done public information/marketing/communications for the public arboretum/botanical garden in my city. I actually work for the foundation that supports the institution, rather than the park itself. I do a lot of writing, project management, web work, event marketing, etc. Essentially it's a PR job but goes a little broader than true PR in its scope. I have also done free-lance writing for non-profit and commercial organizations in recent years. My desire is to move into the editorial field (with hopes of being a magazine editor one of these days, my lifelong professional dream), though I have a definite inclination to remain involved in some way in the worlds of parks-museums (an arboretum is both a park and a museum), horticulture and conservation. As for how Joni's work has contributed or been involved -- I'm not sure -- but I suppose some of the first and most impactful environmental/progressive messages I heard were in her music. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 23:20:12 -0000 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: Loving Joni but not her music... SJC From: "Kevin Arshad" WROTE Subject: Loving Joni but not her music Could someone explain to me for what reason people are attracted to = Joni, if not for her music ? Why are so many on this list not interested = in great recordings of her beautiful performances ? Lucy Replies Hello Kevin... I rarely post a lot about Joni, don't post very much at all of late, I am a bit busy with work ... and to answer the "what to you do for a living" thread... I work for Britain's largest children's charity.... I am a fundraiser in Schools, colleges and universities. I have two children, a dog, and a cat, a lovely man called Frank, and I live in the south of England..two minutes from the beach, opposite the Isle of Wight. Anyway to get back to your question, and I can only give you my small take on it, as we are all so myriad in our thoughts and feelings with regard to Joni... I have never been one to really GET the technical aspect of things... I am in all things driven by words and feelings. My memories of words that shiver my soul into something transcendent span everything from great poems to song lyrics.. Joni, along with a few other artists have done that for me, both lyrically and musically... Neil Young's The Thrashers makes the hairs on my arms and neck stand up... Wasted Time, by the Eagles has the same effect.. but it is usually because they are associated, for me, with some outside influence when I heard the particular track... KASHMIR, by Led Zeppelin (even played on Kazoo with Kay and the others at FEST) remains one of the greatest anthems ever.. but what brought it to life for me was driving along a high pass in the French Alps with the sun blazing down on us, whilst an amazing storm raged below us hurling snow and lightening into the abyss... My very first recollection of hearing Joni was of her singing Little Green on my friends sisters' record player and just HAVING TO KNOW "WHAT ALBUM IS THIS".... and risking the disdainful gaze of the beautiful and graceful Jeannie who uncoiled (in her panne velvet maxi dress) from an amazing yoga position to shove the album sleeve at me and slam the door in my face..... The quality of the recording does not matter to me, who she played with or without does not matter to me, the whole thing of Joni for me is the way her words enfold around me when I do listen to her (which is not all the time). I am a bit of an early years Joniphile........ but do love her more mature voice. I do like BSN and T'logue .. I did not like Hejira THAT Much but then it grew and grew on me, reaching into the rhythm of my thoughts and feelings when I play it...(and I still have probs with Furry sings the blues) but it has joined the ranks of ones I love.... Some people listen because they are musicians and when I am with musicians (Chris and Martin for example) they bring a whole different slant on things and I can see why they love her MUSICALITY.... I am no musician.. my 4 chord tricks are sadly amateurish but get me by for the English folk stuff I play.... I do not think I will ever play anything of Joni's as I am just not THAT MUSICAL.... I don;t think I could ever sing her songs in public as I do not have that range... I think I would say I also admire her for the sheer all round artist she is.. her songs stand up as poetry.. they stand up as songs.... as songs to be taken in refrain in warm bars (Oh Canada) and for moments when you just have to sing it loud "we are stardust" and other times when "again and again the same situation" you find yourself just sitting in the dim light of some TV (computer screen)... realising you are one of the lucky ones who has this artist within a seconds distance from your ears desiring of hearing something unfold, caress, insinuate and restore itself into the core of some subconscious cavern.. something you had not realised was there until Joni filled it.. Why we get her, or how we get her, or when we got her, or why we continue to listen will never have the same answer if you put that question to the thousands of people who do hold her in the fondest esteem... One thing that always amazes me is when you meet someone and you talk to them and you discuss music and they will blushingly admit that they still enjoy listening to "do you remember JONI MITCHELL?" and they think they are the only ones... I think of the JMDL as a bit like the baseball grid in Field of Dreams... Les put the site up,,, he built it, and they came, and they will keep on coming, and going, and returning and arguing and posting and constantly having their say, and feeling part, or not of some sort of wonderful community. I do not buy into the inner and outer thing... Some people you will find you talk to a lot... I thank Walmart for buying out ASDA and supplying a wonderful calling card so that I can call "my sisters and brothers" across the pond.... I talk more to them than I do the English listers... Some will imagine I am some lonely person to regard these people as this but I have experienced real kindness and feelings of being at home amongst those I have met and I only hope I can find all the necessary funds to be at Full moon this year again with my kids in tow.... I have rambled Kevin... but your posts have made me re-evaluate some of why and what the JMDL is about for me and it is about Joni originally, but it is about more than that and I thank you for dragging me out of long lurkdom to post on this rainy night.. Lucy NP.... Loreena Mckennit... The lady of Shallot ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:37:46 -0600 From: "Kevin Arshad" Subject: Re: Loving Joni but not her music... SJC Wow Lucy !! That's quite a missive. I'm glad my question was positive for someone. I'm afraid I could never write that much myself, but I enjoyed reading your response. What might you mean by "be at Full moon " ? Kevin ----- Original Message ----- From: Lucy Hone To: joni@smoe.org ; arshadameer@hotmail.com Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 5:20 PM Subject: Loving Joni but not her music... SJC From: "Kevin Arshad" WROTE Subject: Loving Joni but not her music Could someone explain to me for what reason people are attracted to = Joni, if not for her music ? Why are so many on this list not interested = in great recordings of her beautiful performances ? Lucy Replies Hello Kevin... I rarely post a lot about Joni, don't post very much at all of late, I am a bit busy with work ... and to answer the "what to you do for a living" thread... I work for Britain's largest children's charity.... I am a fundraiser in Schools, colleges and universities. I have two children, a dog, and a cat, a lovely man called Frank, and I live in the south of England..two minutes from the beach, opposite the Isle of Wight. Anyway to get back to your question, and I can only give you my small take on it, as we are all so myriad in our thoughts and feelings with regard to Joni... I have never been one to really GET the technical aspect of things... I am in all things driven by words and feelings. My memories of words that shiver my soul into something transcendent span everything from great poems to song lyrics.. Joni, along with a few other artists have done that for me, both lyrically and musically... Neil Young's The Thrashers makes the hairs on my arms and neck stand up... Wasted Time, by the Eagles has the same effect.. but it is usually because they are associated, for me, with some outside influence when I heard the particular track... KASHMIR, by Led Zeppelin (even played on Kazoo with Kay and the others at FEST) remains one of the greatest anthems ever.. but what brought it to life for me was driving along a high pass in the French Alps with the sun blazing down on us, whilst an amazing storm raged below us hurling snow and lightening into the abyss... My very first recollection of hearing Joni was of her singing Little Green on my friends sisters' record player and just HAVING TO KNOW "WHAT ALBUM IS THIS".... and risking the disdainful gaze of the beautiful and graceful Jeannie who uncoiled (in her panne velvet maxi dress) from an amazing yoga position to shove the album sleeve at me and slam the door in my face..... The quality of the recording does not matter to me, who she played with or without does not matter to me, the whole thing of Joni for me is the way her words enfold around me when I do listen to her (which is not all the time). I am a bit of an early years Joniphile........ but do love her more mature voice. I do like BSN and T'logue .. I did not like Hejira THAT Much but then it grew and grew on me, reaching into the rhythm of my thoughts and feelings when I play it...(and I still have probs with Furry sings the blues) but it has joined the ranks of ones I love.... Some people listen because they are musicians and when I am with musicians (Chris and Martin for example) they bring a whole different slant on things and I can see why they love her MUSICALITY.... I am no musician.. my 4 chord tricks are sadly amateurish but get me by for the English folk stuff I play.... I do not think I will ever play anything of Joni's as I am just not THAT MUSICAL.... I don;t think I could ever sing her songs in public as I do not have that range... I think I would say I also admire her for the sheer all round artist she is.. her songs stand up as poetry.. they stand up as songs.... as songs to be taken in refrain in warm bars (Oh Canada) and for moments when you just have to sing it loud "we are stardust" and other times when "again and again the same situation" you find yourself just sitting in the dim light of some TV (computer screen)... realising you are one of the lucky ones who has this artist within a seconds distance from your ears desiring of hearing something unfold, caress, insinuate and restore itself into the core of some subconscious cavern.. something you had not realised was there until Joni filled it.. Why we get her, or how we get her, or when we got her, or why we continue to listen will never have the same answer if you put that question to the thousands of people who do hold her in the fondest esteem... One thing that always amazes me is when you meet someone and you talk to them and you discuss music and they will blushingly admit that they still enjoy listening to "do you remember JONI MITCHELL?" and they think they are the only ones... I think of the JMDL as a bit like the baseball grid in Field of Dreams... Les put the site up,,, he built it, and they came, and they will keep on coming, and going, and returning and arguing and posting and constantly having their say, and feeling part, or not of some sort of wonderful community. I do not buy into the inner and outer thing... Some people you will find you talk to a lot... I thank Walmart for buying out ASDA and supplying a wonderful calling card so that I can call "my sisters and brothers" across the pond.... I talk more to them than I do the English listers... Some will imagine I am some lonely person to regard these people as this but I have experienced real kindness and feelings of being at home amongst those I have met and I only hope I can find all the necessary funds to be at Full moon this year again with my kids in tow.... I have rambled Kevin... but your posts have made me re-evaluate some of why and what the JMDL is about for me and it is about Joni originally, but it is about more than that and I thank you for dragging me out of long lurkdom to post on this rainy night.. Lucy NP.... Loreena Mckennit... The lady of Shallot ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #17 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)