From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #8 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, January 12 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 008 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: John Guerin 1939-2004 ["ron" ] Jonifest 2003 DVD's [AsharaProducLLC@aol.com] Re: John Guerim [HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com] john guerin ["joe farrell" ] Re: BSN [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: John Guerin [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Re: John Guerin [] Re: John Guerin [Randy Remote ] Re: Both Sides Now [Musicloverrick@aol.com] Re: Both Sides Now [Musicloverrick@aol.com] Re: Both Sides Now [Musicloverrick@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #12 [Musicloverrick@aol.com] Re: BSN [Catherine McKay ] RE: JMDL Digest V2004 #12 ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: John Guerin 1939-2004 ["Kate Bennett" ] In Search Of The Lost Chord [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: John Guerin 1939-2004 [tantra-apso ] Re: John Guerin, 100% JC ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #6 [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: BSN [Neil Orts ] Today in History: January 12 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: January 12 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 10:25:32 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: John Guerin 1939-2004 hi last night i was listeniug to my first "non joni" la express album. what a superb band - even without joni ............ and the drumming is an integral part of the album. rip john guerin ron ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 08:36:52 EST From: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com Subject: Jonifest 2003 DVD's Just a reminder that I will be putting another order in soon for Jonifest DVD's if anyone is interested in ordering. Please have all orders and money in by January 25th if you'd like to place an order. http://www.jmdl.com/jonifest/store.cfm Also, if you have a defective DVD, please let me know by that date so I can take care of it at the same time. Thanks! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 11:14:10 EST From: HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com Subject: Re: John Guerim Peace to him and a loving hug for all of you who will miss him...rock and roll heaven... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:31:06 -0000 From: "joe farrell" Subject: john guerin Really sad to hear of the passing of John Guerin, a great musician who will be sorely missed. I loved his work with Joni especially on THOSL and C&S. Condolences to his family and friends. Joe. np: Joni THOSL. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 11:48:11 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: BSN Mike Wood and Bob Muller exchanged "** The world (well, my world) would be an infinitely poorer place without both BSN **" "And since I sprung for the first release (the hatbox) of BSN, my world would be about 50 bucks richer without it! :~) All kidding aside, I'm glad that you & many others are so moved by this project." I played the "BSN originals" CD (courtesy of Simon and Jim ?) in the car yesterday while my wife was driving (she knows all these songs - I won't say how). After Billie and Ella's versions of "You've Changed", I snuck in Joni's without her noticing. Her reaction - "Who's this ? She's really good" After a few chuckles and some more prompting, I told her it was Joni (she had heard Joni's version before, of course, and had not liked it in context of the whole CD). Well - her reaction this time - "She's really good at sad. Her voice sure has changed, though". Pretty good short review, I thought. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 12:49:44 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: John Guerin Mary P wrote: "But mainly, I got out my vinyl copy of Hissing just to read the end of the acknowledgments on the inside of the cover: "I would especially like to thank [. . .] John Guerin for showing me the root of the chord and where 1 was." Thank you from me, too, John, for your contributions to Miles of Aisles and The Hissing of Summer Lawns, among the many, ...." I got out my vinyl and CD, too, and noticed a couple of oddities: 1. The "1" in "where 1 was" was replaced with "where I was" on the CD insert. I imagine this was a deliberate edit - I wonder whether by Joni or by whoever was in charge of the CD insert remake. (My guess - not Joni - and the the 1 was deliberate, thought obscure). 2. Both ascribe THOSL as "written and composed by John Guerin and Joni Mitchell, Crazy Crow Music BMI/ MadMan's Drum Music ASCAP". Joni writes "John Guerin and I collaborated on THOSL". I wonder if they collaborated on either, both or neither of the words and music, separately, and who was responsible for which. I always assumed that the lyrics were all Joni's (though I have no clear basis for that, except the inference that the lyrics are so strong that only a top lyricist could have composed them). This is a fine song musically, too - it is so rich that it could easily have involved a collaboration. 3. I believe this is the first song that Joni ever recorded with a co-writing credit. Quite an honor - and the album's title song, to boot !! 4. The "MadMan's Drum Music" tag was no doubt Guerin's - I refer back to the opening line of C&S - "Love came to my door With a sleeping roll And a madman's soul ". Joni has attributed that title's inspiration to her relationship with Guerin, but I had not noticed until now the "madman" connection. The C&S title song, The Same Situation, THOSL title song, Blue Motel Room and perhaps others (like Car On A Hill ?) immortalize and memorialize Guerin within Joni's catalogue, at least in my mind. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 12:58:28 -0600 From: Subject: Re: Re: John Guerin Bobsart wrote: "I got out my vinyl and CD, too, and noticed a couple of oddities: 1. The "1" in "where 1 was" was replaced with "where I was" on the CD insert. I imagine this was a deliberate edit - I wonder whether by Joni or by whoever was in charge of the CD insert remake. (My guess - not Joni - and the the 1 was deliberate, thought obscure)." Bob, I'm on digest, so pardon the repetition if someone's beat me to the punch here, so to speak. However, from a past discussion I on this list, my impression is that the "1" was deliberate. (You had more faith in Joni's thouroughness and care in presentation than I did; I went through years fully believing that this was a typo!). But my recollection is that the "1" has something to do with chord structure; maybe it's even the "root of the chord." I read this thank-you to Guerin as operating on two levels: 1) thank you for helping me sort out some technical issues in the writing and recording of this musically complex album, and 2) thank you for helping me see where my center was in our personal life. However, especially on the significance of "1", my memory (and knowledge) is very shaky. Any musicians out there who can help out here? Mary. P.S. FWIW, I've always interpreted most of _Hejira_ to be "about" John Guerin, and the aftermath of his and Joni's breakup, in that songs can ever have exact biographical referents. I don't know that I ever thought "Coyote" referred to him, although that makes sense, now that I'm aware of his connection with horses and ranching. But I've always thought he was he man she left at the North Dakota junction; assumed he was "Strange Boy," and also, thought he was the one (of "boom boom pachyderm fame!) that she was pining away for, quite despite herself, in that blue hotel room in Savannah. Going a bit further into the catalogue, I've also associated Guerin with "Off-night Backstreet": no reason; just timing, and a feeling. Take any of this for what it's worth, which is, admittedly, not a lot. But I think many of us do guiltily play the connect-the-dots game. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. . . ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 12:23:42 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: John Guerin I had always thought it was "showing me where I was"...but in drummer lingo, the "1" is the downbeat of the bar; the 1 in 1,2,3,4. My guess is that the typesetter for the CD just misread it as I did, and inserted the I. "Where 1 was" ain't proper wordin'! Bobsart, great connections! RR blckcrow@chorus.net wrote: > Bobsart wrote: > > "I got out my vinyl and CD, too, and noticed a couple of oddities: > > 1. The "1" in "where 1 was" was replaced with "where I was" on the CD > insert. I imagine this was a deliberate edit - I wonder whether by Joni or by > whoever was in charge of the CD insert remake. (My guess - not Joni - and the > the > 1 was deliberate, thought obscure)." > > Bob, I'm on digest, so pardon the repetition if someone's beat me to the punch > here, so to speak. However, from a past discussion I on this list, my > impression is that the "1" was deliberate. (You had more faith in Joni's > thouroughness and care in presentation than I did; I went through years fully > believing that this was a typo!). > > But my recollection is that the "1" has something to do with chord structure; > maybe it's even the "root of the chord." I read this thank-you to Guerin as > operating on two levels: 1) thank you for helping me sort out some technical > issues in the writing and recording of this musically complex album, and 2) > thank you for helping me see where my center was in our personal life. > > However, especially on the significance of "1", my memory (and knowledge) is > very shaky. Any musicians out there who can help out here? > > Mary. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:57:59 EST From: Musicloverrick@aol.com Subject: Re: Both Sides Now Well I may not be a musician, but considering that Joni Mitchell has guitar chords that she actually INVENTED and has more guitar tunings in her catalog of music than everyone but a few other artists, I don't think it's fair to really say she HAS a weak area...The woman is a genius. No two ways about it. Rick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:58:52 EST From: Musicloverrick@aol.com Subject: Re: Both Sides Now Well I may not be a musician, but considering that Joni Mitchell has guitar chords that she actually INVENTED and has more guitar tunings in her catalog of music than everyone but a few other artists, I don't think it's fair to really say she HAS a weak area...The woman is a genius. No two ways about it. Rick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:33:15 EST From: Musicloverrick@aol.com Subject: Re: Both Sides Now Well even though I am not a musician I don't think it is even fair to say Joni has a weak area...I mean the woman writes her own words AND music, plays her own instruments, does the actual artwork for MANY of her album covers, ANd produces them herself....NOT TO MENTION that her catalog of songs has one of the HIGHEST numbers of guitar tunings than almost anyone out there. Also several of her songs have guitar chords that she created herself based on music she heard in her head....chords that were never played before by anyone....Sorry if I am wrong but that seems to me that there is no way you could call her instrument playing a weak area. Rick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:40:42 EST From: Musicloverrick@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #12 While I can see Kate's point, I also know that the reason many of these companies go overseas is NOT to help out the people in the foreign countries who work for them, but rather to screw American workers by not having to pay them decent wages, and also by fattening their pockets even more by paying very cheap wages for the same work. Rick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:15:44 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: BSN --- Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: > I played the "BSN originals" CD (courtesy of Simon > and Jim ?) in the car > yesterday while my wife was driving (she knows all > these songs - I won't say how). > After Billie and Ella's versions of "You've > Changed", I snuck in Joni's > without her noticing. Her reaction - "Who's this ? > She's really good" After a few > chuckles and some more prompting, I told her it was > Joni (she had heard Joni's > version before, of course, and had not liked it in > context of the whole CD). > Well - her reaction this time - "She's really good > at sad. Her voice sure has > changed, though". I'm wondering if that "in the context of the whole CD" thing might not be the crux of the biscuit. I find, whether I'm listening to BSN or Travelogue, I can't listen to the whole thing, or any more than maybe 3 or 4 songs from either of these, without finding they all start to sound the same. On the other hand, when I listen to one or only a few songs from either of these CDs and/or I don't listen too often, I enjoy them more. This isn't an experience I have with any other Joni album though. Joni is indeed good at sad - these days, good at world-weary too. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:27:36 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2004 #12 oh yes, i never meant to infer that the companies went overseas out of any mission to help others...however, in the process i know that some do provide improved conditions for their workers...this is not meant to speak for all companies only what i have experienced... > While I can see Kate's point, I also know that the reason many of these companies go overseas is NOT to help out the people in the foreign countries who work for them, but rather to screw American workers by not having to pay them decent wages, and also by fattening their pockets even more by paying very cheap wages for the same work. Rick < ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:03:29 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: John Guerin 1939-2004 here is the link to a memorial site > for John Guerin, the best drummer I have ever heard. > http://johnguerin.com/ How sad...i am shocked to hear of someone so young dying from the flu...it said he had heart failure as a result...& that his son had died before him...which is soooo sad...i wonder if he had been suffering from a broken heart...:{ Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:06:34 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: In Search Of The Lost Chord **Joni Mitchell has guitar chords that she actually INVENTED** I have to admit that I didn't know this, Rick...exactly which chords did she invent? Or did you mean that she devised new tunings for already existing chords? Not being a musician I don't know if there's a difference. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:58:50 +0000 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: John Guerin 1939-2004 Kate Bennett wrote: >here is the link to a memorial site > for John Guerin, the best drummer >I have ever heard. > > >>http://johnguerin.com/ >> >> > >How sad...i am shocked to hear of someone so young dying from the >flu... > It is not so uncommon. My neighbours son, with no health problems, died at age 27 from heart failure brought on by the 'flu. The virus can attack the heart muscle it seems. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:27:14 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: John Guerin, 100% JC I think "1" was deliberate too. (Extra points for using the word "deliberate".) If I remember my JMDL history, "the one of the chord" is the same thing as saying "the root of the chord". (Mister Lahm?) I think it implies you're looking at the intervals within a chord. (Jenny?) If so, I nominate it for a place in Les' Glossary. So, saying "showing me where one was" meant giving me instruction in music theory. The fact that it also sounds mysteriously Zen-like transforms it into an artful thank-you. It's a shame that it was mangled for the reissue. Maybe someone thought it was a typo and "fixed it". Too bad they didn't catch "boy winds" when they put "Urge For Going" on "HITS". Wad'da 'ya gonna do, huh? BTW, the LP issued in Japan also says "1". The songbook for THOSL has lyrics but not the credits. All the best, Jim "Lama" Bob S. said, >>I got out my vinyl and CD, too, and noticed 1. The "1" in "where 1 was" was replaced with "where I was" on the CD insert. I imagine this was a deliberate edit - I wonder whether by Joni or by whoever was in charge of the CD insert remake. (My guess - not Joni - and the the 1 was deliberate, thought obscure). ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:49:17 EST From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #6 << From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: Both Sides Now While we were listening to Travelogue I found myself telling her over and over again..."Don't judge her by this version...just WAIT until you hear her *original* recording of this song..." Forgive me for what I'm about to say, but visions of those obnoxious TV ads flogging Rod Stewart's "American Standards" or whatever the marketing mavens are calling those two laughable albums kept popping into my head while listening to Travelogue. Does anyone else feel the same? As a newbie, I hesitated in posting my views on this subject because I'm quite sure you guys have been down this road all too often in the past couple of years (or three). Best Regards, bp >> Since you asked for other opinions, I offer mine: I'm not crazy about Travelogue but I don't think it's as bad as many other JMDLers make it out to be. As far as Rod Stewart's "American Standards", my wife loves them and I think they're quite listenable. Sure, I'm old enough to know and love all the originals but I can listen to Stewart's versions with no problem; they're great background music to put on when you've got a few couples over for drinks and conversation. I actually think they're better than some of the "original" albums he made in later years. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:33:14 -0800 (PST) From: Neil Orts Subject: Re: BSN - --- Catherine McKay wrote: > I'm wondering if that "in the context of the whole > CD" > thing might not be the crux of the biscuit. I find, > whether I'm listening to BSN or Travelogue, I can't > listen to the whole thing, or any more than maybe 3 > or > 4 songs from either of these, without finding they > all > start to sound the same. This is interesting because this was exactly the problem I had getting into Hejira. Jaco's bass was so dominant on that album that every track sounded the same to me. I'm happy to report that I finally did "get" it, and it's become one of my favorite albums. But there were years there of me just not understanding why so many JMDLers loved that album so much. BSN was a disappointment to me. I'm not widely versed in the music of the era she was covering, but I like a lot of what I've heard. I was familiar with "I Wish I was in Love Again," for example, and I hate Joni's version. To me, that song needs to swing a lot more. I agree that a lot of that album sounds the same, and I suppose I'll blame it on what I sense is Joni's attempt to sing them all as smokey blues numbers. It just felt like she missed all the songs' individual qualities. So I approached Travelogue with much fear and trembling. And I was pleasantly surprised. As I said before, I loved how Dawntreader translated to the orchestra. In a bit of irony, given my feelings about Hejira, I felt it was her arrangements for songs from that album that suffered the most. The sort of jaunty rhythms under "I'm traveling in some vehicle . . ." just feels all wrong. Maybe I'm being closed to a new interpretation of that song in particular, but i learned to love it for the melancholy it evoked. I do think one problem with Travelogue, one that probably makes the songs sound all alike, is that I can't always tell what song is coming up by the intro. The intros all sound similar to me, like she she couldn't come up with unique ideas for each song. I especially think the intro to Cherokee Louise is misleading, although I like the arrangement when she gets into the vocals. (I've wonder, though, why she replaced "Archie and Silver Screen" with "comics and magazines.") So why am I typing all this so late at night (early in the morning)? Just to affirm that, yes, there is a sameness to all the tracks? Yes, that must be it. Catherine, consider yourself affirmed. :) - -Neil affirmer ===== Neil Ellis Orts 713-838-1787 Houston, TX keep up with my creative endeavors--join my newsletter list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/neonews ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 02:23:06 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: January 12 1986: Joni was interviewed at WNEW-FM. - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 02:23:06 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: January 12 On January 12 the following articles were published: 1969: "The Miami Festival: An Inspired Bag of Pop" - New York Times (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=824 1986: "New York Interview" - WNEW-FM (Interview - Audio Transcription) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=728 2003: "Judgement of the moon and stars" - Vail Daily (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1051 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #8 ******************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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