From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #6 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, January 10 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 006 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: NPR-Bush Co. Mislead the people! =?ISO-8859-1?B?oHNqYyBOSkM=?= [SCJon] Re: Joni on CBC in February [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Both Sides Now [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Both Sides Now [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Both Sides Now ["Norman Pennington" ] Re: Both Sides Now ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Both Sides Now [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Both Sides Now ["Joseph S.E. Palis" ] Re: Both Sides Now [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Forgive Me Joniphiles [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: Both Sides Now [Michael Paz ] RE: JMDL Digest V2004 #11 ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Both Sides Now [Musicloverrick@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #11 [Musicloverrick@aol.com] Re: Both Sides Now [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Both Sides Now [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #11 [Catherine McKay ] Re: Both Sides Now [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Wes Clark and Joni [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Both Sides Now [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Is Joni a prophet? ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Is Joni a prophet? [vince ] Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #11 ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #12 - prophetic? [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Today in History: January 10 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: January 10 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] RE: JMDL Digest V2004 #12 ["Kate Bennett" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 09:03:14 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NPR-Bush Co. Mislead the people! =?ISO-8859-1?B?oHNqYyBOSkM=?= Please don't forget to change "sjc" to "njc" when needed. Thanks, Bob NP: Bob Dylan, "Po' Boy" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 09:06:36 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on CBC in February Rick, I hope you or some of the CBC JMDL folks will watch this and report back. I've seen a couple of news blurbs about dance programs being set to Joni's music, so I guess it's yet another branch of the arts that Joni's work has penetrated. Bob NP: Bob Dylan, "Cry A While" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:12:17 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Both Sides Now Bob Muller wrote: "In comparison, the songs she did on BSN (even her own) had been done to death and that's probably the biggest reason why that project did not work at all." I think you may be onto something there, Bob. My introduction to these songs occurred when I saw Joni perform them at the Garden Theatre almost 4 years ago. I was not a list member at the time, so I was lucky to notice that she was playing that very day, and buttonholed a co-worker to see it with me. I had not bought the CD (I knew it was out), and did not know the songs. So, for me, the concert lacked the familiarity I would have hoped for - I did not know the songs (my parents did not play them, and neither did my friends or spouses). My friend really liked the concert (he knew the songs, and had never seen Joni - tho he was a big fan). I then went out and bought the CD, and got familiar with the songs on it. So, for me, they were "Joni's songs", and were fresh, which may be why the record worked better for me than for you. It also inspired me to pick up Billy Holiday's greatest hits and listen to a few other classic CD's, so I have benefited in that was from Joni's decision to do the BSN project. Bob - thanks again for the BSN 'originals' CD that you put together for the fest. I'm gonna go listen to it right now. Do you think that Joni's versions are materially inferior to the versions on that CD ? Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 10:11:11 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Both Sides Now I'm glad you are enjoying that, Bob...BUT I had nothing to do with it. Simon Montgomery assembled the compilation and Lamadoo helped with labels, copying, distribution...I think that's correct anyway, Jim help me out if I've strayed from the path. As to your question Bob...what do you mean specifically by "materially inferior"? In my mind, they are materially equivalent because the material, ie the songs themselves are the same. I believe that Joni's versions of these songs are inferior to most of the 'classic' recordings of the same songs, that of course is somewhat a matter of taste. I strongly dislike the schmaltzy overwrought arrangements, and I think the production is also very weak, with Joni's vocals buried under the weight of the bajillion-piece orchestra. And while I'm sure that Joni enjoyed the project, playing the role of a jazz chanteuse is not playing to her strength so in my opinion this collection only serves to weaken her catalogue. To use my tried & true Sartorius analogy, I'm sure that Tiger Woods could buy his way into playing an exhibition NBA game, but it probably wouldn't put him in the best light either. :~) If at some point Joni decides to compose again and is inspired to do so by this study of classic standards, then the project will have had some merit. Bob NP: Dylan, "Buckets Of Rain" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 08:41:00 -0700 From: "Norman Pennington" Subject: Re: Both Sides Now Bob wrote: > > As to your question Bob...what do you mean specifically by > "materially inferior"? In my mind, they are materially > equivalent because the material, ie the songs themselves are > the same. I believe that Joni's versions of these songs are > inferior to most of the 'classic' recordings of the same songs, > that of course is somewhat a matter of taste. I strongly dislike > the schmaltzy overwrought arrangements, and I think the > production is also very weak, with Joni's vocals buried under > the weight of the bajillion-piece orchestra. And while I'm > sure that Joni enjoyed the project, playing the role of a jazz > chanteuse is not playing to her strength so in my opinion this > collection only serves to weaken her catalogue. > I, for one, agree wholeheartedly. I'm of an age where I remember the original versions of most of the songs on "Both Sides Now" (thanks to my Mom, among others) and have several of the originals in my collection. As noted in previous posts, I'm slowly replacing my vinyl copies of Joni's albums with CDs. I made a TERRIBLE mistake by purchasing "Travelogue," for the very reasons Bob mentions, above. I wish I had taken the $25.00 I spent on "Travelogue" and bought CDs of FTR and LOTC instead. As an aside, I'm introducing my girl friend to Joni's work. While we were listening to Travelogue I found myself telling her over and over again..."Don't judge her by this version...just WAIT until you hear her *original* recording of this song..." Forgive me for what I'm about to say, but visions of those obnoxious TV ads flogging Rod Stewart's "American Standards" or whatever the marketing mavens are calling those two laughable albums kept popping into my head while listening to Travelogue. Does anyone else feel the same? As a newbie, I hesitated in posting my views on this subject because I'm quite sure you guys have been down this road all too often in the past couple of years (or three). Best Regards, bp NP: J.J. Cale: Tears in My Tequila ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 10:50:40 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Both Sides Now I made a TERRIBLE mistake by purchasing "Travelogue," for > the very reasons Bob mentions, above. I wish I had taken the $25.00 I spent > on "Travelogue" and bought CDs of FTR and LOTC instead. > > Does anyone else feel the same. Sure! I used 25 dollars recently and bought remastered HDCD versions of DJRD, MOA, and HoSL. A much better use of $25 IMO. And don't hesitate to post your opinions. They range the spectrum...the more the better. Victor NP: Grateful Dead "Estimated Prophet" Victor Johnson New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville http://www.waytobluemusic.com me? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 11:07:26 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Both Sides Now In a message dated 09/01/2004 15:42:48 GMT Standard Time, buckpennington@yucca.net writes: << Does anyone else feel the same? As a newbie, I hesitated in posting my views on this subject because I'm quite sure you guys have been down this road all too often in the past couple of years (or three) >> Don't worry Buck, like all eco-friendly groups, we fully support recycling. Some questions come around again and again, and the discussions are never quite the same, as there is new blood on the list, people's views change, and so on. As to Travelogue, views run the entire range from some who consider that it is among her finest works, to yours truly, who considers it unequivocally and by a long distance the worst thing she's ever done. Azeem in London NP: Suzanne Vega - When Heroes Down (two minutes of pithy pop perfection) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 11:22:04 -0500 From: "Joseph S.E. Palis" Subject: Re: Both Sides Now First of all, how is "Both Sides Now" written? Is that with a comma after "Sides" or no comma at all? I have seen some pressings that have a comma. For me, that single comma changes a lot as regards to how I understand the song. I always gravitate and lean towards the understanding that the song is a world-weary look at failed relationships despite the joyous moments they engender. Listening to Dianne Reeves' 7-minute version of it solidified that observation, but if the song reads "Both Sides, Now" suddenly the song's ambiguity about the narrator's worldview shifts to an active voice where he/she arrived at some closure with a definite finality. And even if she/he has seen what life is, then its about picking the shards of one's brokenness and moving on without still knowing if what will come out of future endeavours/relationships will be better. Something like, even if you became wiser, that doesn't mean you can't commit mistakes. I think the song is lovelier that way or maybe its just me. Second, I like Joni's latter version of BSN more than the first one. I like singers with (pardon the sacrilege) unbeautiful voices because of age because it has so much character in it, a kind of knowing smile, a thoughtful lapse in the beat speaks volumes to me than beutiful singing (which I also like in specific singers). And Joni's heartache, so subtle and quite hidden in the latter version is made even more unspeakably beautiful because of its vocal understatement. Its like seeing/hearing a woman of great fortitude who has seen much but will not overly and dramatically declare -- though certainly valid -- what she has seen. And just to shift to "A Case of You" -- Joni's latter version of is in BSN makes me misty-eyed everytime I hear it. Joseph in Chapel Hill (who should be reading this spring term's quota of readings) Quoting Norman Pennington : > I, for one, agree wholeheartedly. I'm of an age where I remember > the > original versions of most of the songs on "Both Sides Now" (thanks to > my > Mom, among others) and have several of the originals in my > collection. As > noted in previous posts, I'm slowly replacing my vinyl copies of > Joni's > albums with CDs. I made a TERRIBLE mistake by purchasing > "Travelogue," for > the very reasons Bob mentions, above. I wish I had taken the $25.00 > I spent > on "Travelogue" and bought CDs of FTR and LOTC instead. As an aside, > I'm > introducing my girl friend to Joni's work. While we were listening > to > Travelogue I found myself telling her over and over again..."Don't > judge her > by this version...just WAIT until you hear her *original* recording > of this > song..." Forgive me for what I'm about to say, but visions of those > obnoxious TV ads flogging Rod Stewart's "American Standards" or > whatever the > marketing mavens are calling those two laughable albums kept popping > into my > head while listening to Travelogue. > > Does anyone else feel the same? As a newbie, I hesitated in posting > my > views on this subject because I'm quite sure you guys have been down > this > road all too often in the past couple of years (or three). > > Best Regards, > bp > NP: J.J. Cale: Tears in My Tequila > Joseph S.E. Palis Department of Geography University of North Carolina Saunders Hall, CB 3220 Chapel Hill, N.C. 27599-3220 palis@email.unc.edu joepalis@yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 13:22:40 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Both Sides Now It's been recorded as both, as well as "From Both Sides Now" & "Clouds" as well! I enjoyed your take on Joni's BSN version, Joseph and I'm sure that Joni would agree with a world-weary voice giving a better reading of the lyric - she claims she was re-inspired about the song by hearing Mabel Mercer's version, done by someone who is looking back... BUT I don't think that's necessarily a must. Think back to when you were in your twenties; you pretty much think you've got everything figured out and can easily sing a song like BSN from the perspective of someone who has won & lost at love, but the older you get the more wisdom you gain! And yet, even then you have to say "it's love's illusions I recall, I really don't know love at all", which is one of the reasons why the song is SO incredible...simple & complex simultaneously. Bob NP: The Long Winters, "Prom Night at Hater High" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 15:41:13 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Forgive Me Joniphiles you are absolved kevin, now go say three circle games and a help me. jenny - -trying harder to have a nice day Cactustree78@aol.com wrote: Forgive me Joniphiles for I have sinned it has been months and months sincemy last (confession)post....Sometimes life just takes you where it wants to but alas here I am and hoping that you all are doing well!! What leads me to this post is reading a post by my old buddy Ken and I believe Anne about Judgement of the Moon and Stars...Ken stated "Think how most other writers might take an entire song to tell that Beethoven deathbed story. And Joni tosses it off in a line in a verse in a song about something so much more encompassing!" Then Ken goes on to say how some may say our Joni is verbous...Well so what if she is...I get off on the words..I'm sure that I am not the only one...So anyway...Its been a while im a lil long winded...("excuse my appearance im windblown") sorry... My ALL TIME FAVORITE Joni description is actually in the prementioned song (Ludwigs Tune) The line is "Condemned to wires and hammers Strike every chord that you feel That broken trees And elephant ivories conceal" Now shes talking about a piano obviously but it's the way she goes about it..Sometimes I feel like I am the piano sometimes its me playing the piano..I have always been affected by these lines...Maybe because I came onto this album at a very craazy time in my life..who knows..I just wanted to take this opportunity to jump back into the river o' Joni...Ive missed your company...Hope you all are having a nice day...If not then try a lil harder..****Kev**** Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 18:16:17 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Both Sides Now NOW Bob we don't say anything about your schmaltzy overwrought arrangements at Jonifests. As a matter of fact many of us enjoy your work tremendously. I just can't wait till 10 years from now when you change your story and recognize it for what it really is -just our Joni being Joni- and damn she does just fine by me. Of course if you keep this rant up maybe she will be inclined to record original stuff again. Just please oh God if your up there don't let her fall into the rap thing PLEASE! I will never hear the end of it from my kids. Love Paz NP-Woodstock-Danielle Howle Bob the cover monster wrote: > I believe that Joni's versions of these songs are > inferior to most of the 'classic' recordings of the same songs, > that of course is somewhat a matter of taste. I strongly dislike > the schmaltzy overwrought arrangements, and I think the > production is also very weak, with Joni's vocals buried under > the weight of the bajillion-piece orchestra. And while I'm > sure that Joni enjoyed the project, playing the role of a jazz > chanteuse is not playing to her strength so in my opinion this > collection only serves to weaken her catalogue. > > NP: Dylan, "Buckets Of Rain" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 16:16:54 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2004 #11 >So, while it IS ludicrous to believe the "invasion" of the Middle East was planned long ago< Believing has nothing to do with it...it is fact. It is lucicrous to ignore this. Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 21:15:22 EST From: Musicloverrick@aol.com Subject: Re: Both Sides Now Well personally i am very glad I bought travelogue....I mean the versions of her songs are CERTAINLY different, but that is one of the things I LOVE about Joni...that she experiments and tries new things....I think it's a great album....Rick [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of Shania Twain 1 .gif] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 21:23:12 EST From: Musicloverrick@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #11 OH MY you know what I found to be very weird???? Does everyone remember the song "Otis and Marlena" from Joni's album "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter?" Well I have only been a Joni fan for about three years now, so when I first bought that CD it was around the time when the two guys were shooting people around the DC area, and then they were caught and found to be Muslims.....EVEN THOUGH "Don Juan's..." came out in '77, what I found wild about that song was that it seemed to be talking about that incident, since the whole DC area was literally "Held Up," due to the fear everyone had of being shot and killed by these mysterious snipers....ANyone else notice this or find that to be interesting? I know it's hard to understand it from the perspective of a fan who has had that album since it actually came out, but for me, just hearing that song for the first time when all of that was going on, it was VERY prophetic almost! Know this may sound silly, but thought I would share......RIck [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of Shania Twain 1 .gif] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 22:00:47 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Both Sides Now Bob Muller wrote: "I'm glad you are enjoying that, Bob...BUT I had nothing to do with it. Simon Montgomery assembled the compilation and Lamadoo helped with labels, copying, distribution...I think that's correct anyway, Jim help me out if I've strayed from the path." Geesh !!!! I believe this is the second time I have committed the exact same misattribution. For some reason, this time I thought it was that other CD that Simon put together for us, with the joni oldies on it. So, double thanks and double sorry Simon (and thanks to you, too, Jim, if you did the part Bob Muller attributed to you). I'm gonna go see my Alzheimer's doctor now (he's my cousin in law - a world renowned expert in that area, but he can't help me, apparently - we're still rooting for my mother-in-law, though) :-) Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 22:19:18 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Both Sides Now Bob Muller wrote: "And while I'm sure that Joni enjoyed the project, playing the role of a jazz chanteuse is not playing to her strength so in my opinion this collection only serves to weaken her catalogue. To use my tried & true Sartorius analogy, I'm sure that Tiger Woods could buy his way into playing an exhibition NBA game, but it probably wouldn't put him in the best light either. :~)" Thanks for your thoughts and opinion, Bob. I will say that I rather like the takes that Joni brought to the melodic lines of these songs, even if they are rather straightforward compared to the original classics. I find them rather on the sincere side, and I am biased in favor of sincere. That said, I tend to agree that Joni's phrasing is rather uninspired (as pointed out by someone else earlier - was it Richard ?). In terms of the Tiger analogy, if one were to look at Joni's skill set among the various aspects of the art: Singing Melody writing Chordal and harmonic composition Lryic writing Guitar, dulcimer and piano playing Guitar arrangements (oh, those tunings) Piano playing Piano composition Dulicmer playing Recording production Live performing I would be inclined to think that instrument playing is her weakest area and singing her second weakest area. I use the term 'weak" loosely - that is the tribute, really, that even her weakest areas are so very strong. Sort of like Tiger Woods (his bunker play is not that good, either, but he could compete in it in a skills contest if he felt like it, and nobody would laugh). I expect to get criticism of my evaluation in this commentary - so it is really quite a close affair, no ? Bobsart (unfavorably comparing his current productive output at age 55 with Joni's BSN) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 22:25:56 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #11 --- Musicloverrick@aol.com wrote: > OH MY you know what I found to be very weird???? > Does everyone remember the > song "Otis and Marlena" from Joni's album "Don > Juan's Reckless Daughter?" > Well I have only been a Joni fan for about three > years now, so when I first > bought that CD it was around the time when the two > guys were shooting people around > the DC area, and then they were caught and found to > be Muslims.....EVEN > THOUGH "Don Juan's..." came out in '77, what I found > wild about that song was that > it seemed to be talking about that incident, since > the whole DC area was > literally "Held Up," due to the fear everyone had of > being shot and killed by these > mysterious snipers....ANyone else notice this or > find that to be interesting? I never noticed that but can see how you did, esp. since you just discovered this stuff at around that time. When "Turbulent Indigo" came out, I thought "Not to blame" was about OJ Simpson - but of course, it was recorded a year or so before the murders. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 22:30:55 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Both Sides Now Paz digs at the terribly sincere and sensitive Bob Muller - "NOW Bob we don't say anything about your schmaltzy overwrought arrangements at Jonifests. " Since I have not yet seen Bob M's reply, may I say on his behalf "Touche'" ! Bobsart Michael -remember the line "I can be cruel, but let me be gentle with you" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 22:38:03 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Wes Clark and Joni vince wrote: "Clark: "I loved hearing Joan Baez and Joni Mitchell..." that is enough - first candidate to make a Joni mention." Well, if he had added "Joni for president, Joan for vice president", I might have felt conflicted for a moment. Then, I thought of another thing - he named them in the wrong order ;-) Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 23:06:11 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Both Sides Now **I would be inclined to think that instrument playing is her weakest area and singing her second weakest area.** Wow, that IS pretty ballsy criticism, Bob...I think that instrument playing is one of her strongest strengths, I'm in awe when I watch her play the guitar, piano or dulcimer for that matter, she appears to have a unique mastery of it all and always seems to be paving new ground. But then again, you're a guitarist (a damn good one at that) and all I play is the stereo. As for her singing, I would say that she's a marvelous vocalist but moreso when it pertains to her own songs. I think when she changes hats and becomes an interpretive vocalist of others' work, she pales a bit. That may be because as a writer she is so superior to so many others. Add "actress" to her skill sets and it might shake up your list a bit.Watch her act in the film "Love" and you may change your mind about her weaknesses. ;~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 20:40:44 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Is Joni a prophet? Of "Otis and Marlena," Rick wrote: > EVEN THOUGH "Don Juan's..." came out in '77, what I found wild about > that song was that it seemed to be talking about that incident, since > the whole DC area was literally "Held Up," due to the fear everyone > had of being shot and killed by these mysterious snipers....ANyone > else notice this or find that to be interesting? I believe Lama mentioned this at the very time it was happening, but I don't recall anyone responding. Maybe it seemed too un-PC or something. Since I live smack in the middle of where the first 5 shots were fired, I was quite startled (perhaps "unnerved" is more accurate) when Lama pointed it out. Catherine added: > When "Turbulent Indigo" came out, I thought "Not to blame" was about > OJ Simpson - but of course, it was recorded a year or so before the > murders. I thought the same thing too and in fact I still think of OJ, rather than Jackson Browne, whenever I hear the song. I've long wondered if Joni doesn't know a whole lot more than she lets on ... perhaps she's really a modern-day prophet? Wouldn't surprise me. Anyone else have an opinion? (LOL ...) Lori ~ http://www.aidsmarathon.com/participant.asp?runner=DCNO-3152&year=2003 http://lrfye.lunarpages.com/donorform.pdf ~ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 01:03:44 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: Is Joni a prophet? Lori Fye wrote: > > >I've long wondered if Joni doesn't know a whole lot more than she lets >on ... perhaps she's really a modern-day prophet? Wouldn't surprise me. > >Anyone else have an opinion? (LOL ...) > > As a member of the clergy, and a life long Biblical student who has always been drawn particularly to the prophets, the answer is: yes. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 01:30:23 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #11 Rick, Yes, exactly. There was a news incident that kicked her off in 1976 but like everything else about politics in the middle east, it comes back again and again. One of the cool things about the JMDL site that Les Irvin built for Joni's work, is a section that has hot links built into the lyrics. On this page: http://www.jmdl.com/lyrics/otisandmarlena.cfm you'll find the lyrics to "Otis and Marlena". If you want to read up on what that line meant in 1977, you can. If you don't, the lines are metaphorical enough that they leave room for you to see your own story inside her framework. I think Joni put "Otis and Marlena" at the front of "TRAVELOGUE" because of those exact lines you talked about. After the Sept 11th attacks, it's like Neil Young said: "All the songs mean something different now." I had not thought about the gas station shootings but yeah, that fits too. All the best, Lama NP: "Sing Along With Basie" >OH MY you know what I found to be very weird???? Does everyone remember the song "Otis and Marlena" ? EVEN THOUGH "Don Juan's..." came out in '77, what I found wild about that song was that it seemed to be talking about that incident, since the whole DC area was literally "Held Up," due to the fear everyone had of being shot and killed by these mysterious snipers. for me, just hearing that song for the first time when all of that was going on, it was VERY prophetic> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 01:37:21 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2004 #12 - prophetic? >EVEN THOUGH "Don Juan's..." came out in '77, what I found wild about >that song was that it seemed to be talking about that incident, since >the whole DC area was literally "Held Up," due to the fear everyone >had of being shot and killed by these mysterious snipers....ANyone >else notice this or find that to be interesting? Someone else may have mentioned this, but the "while Muslims hold up Washington" line in Otis and Marlena refers to an incident in 77 or 76 where a radical Muslim or two went into a government office in DC and briefly took hostages (or something along that line). Of course that doesn't mean isn't prophetic... Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 02:00:03 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: January 10 1968: Joni performs at the Club 47 in Cambridge, Massachusetts. - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 02:00:03 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: January 10 On January 10 the following article was published: 1970: "Joni Still Feels The Pull Of The Country" - Melody Maker (Interview, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=179 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 23:45:43 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2004 #12 Vince >As jobs are moving overseas to where people get paid pennies per hour, it is time to consider something a friend of mine pointed out yesterday: slavery still exists in the world.< This is not always so vince...i married a man who has done much of his business overseas...the wages are lower but so is the cost of living...many of the people who are sometimes considered working in 'slavery' conditions are much better off than they were before the work...in china it has changed the fate of women dramatically...there was a time when girl babies were considered expendable & as a result they were treated quite horribly...now those same girls & women have a life (literally) not to mention a livlihood, medical care, clean living quarters, heat, food, etc...sometimes companies build entire towns to house their employees...you have to look at what life was like for these folks before you decide whether giving them overseas jobs is good or bad... Kate www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" The All Music Guide ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2004 #6 ******************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)