From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #386 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, December 11 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 386 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Community involvement in other's lives? -I wish. [John Calimee ] Re: Goodbye [Deb Messling ] Subject: Re: Here we go again (2) [steph@cix.co.uk (Anita Gabrielle Tedde] Re: Goodbye ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Here we go again (2) ["Jim Leonard" ] Look to this day and remember Mary Grace some words from my heart (contains some tfcc) ;-) [magsnbrei <] one more thing about the mary grace fund [magsnbrei ] Re: season of miracles [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Community involvement in other's lives? -I wish. [Steve Polifka ] Here we go again ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: [NortheastJonifest] Thanks and Idea ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Goodbye ["Kate Bennett" ] PBS 69 Perma-Vine CD vine open [Doug ] CSNY VCD Vine 2nd Call vljc [Doug ] Anita's Musical Bday Party for Joni ["Cynthia Vickery" ] Re: Anita's Musical Bday Party for Joni [Emiliano ] CSNY VCD Vine closed [Doug ] Re: [NortheastJonifest] one more thing about the mary grace fund [Chuck E] FW: Stand Up For Hillary ["anon anon" ] PBS 69 Perma-Vine CD vine closed [Doug ] Re: Goodbye [Catherine McKay ] Re: Goodbye [Les Irvin ] Re: Goodbye [Les Irvin ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 02:23:18 -0600 From: John Calimee Subject: Community involvement in other's lives? -I wish. Community involvement in other's lives? I wish! - -This is not so much a response to Jim email, just a personal reflection... I wish it were true I was involved in the personal lives of JMDL members. I can still recall meeting my first dyed-in-the wool JMDL Joni fan: Ranger Rick, the day before Joni's opening. I was almost as thrilled and thankful for meeting him that day as I was about Joni... Whadda cool guy. Then came Ashara, and Coyote Rick and and... Hell, I still daydream of hanging out with Muller, Kakki, Paz and everyone else here. Given half the chance, I'd park myself at the breakfast table with every JMDL member on the planet if they are a tenth as cool as those I've met in person. Unfortantely, the reality is such that I'm less than 2 hrs. away from even Polifka and we've never met... save one strange midnight rendevous off the toll road. "You people" are wonderful people... I'd be all over personal if I were lucky enough. - -My 10 billionth happy listen to Tlog happended today. God, her phrasing on these cd's is beyond brilliant. Gloriously nuanced. j. (Happy lurking...) (#@%!$!!!!.... I owe Kakki a painting btw... ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:04:06 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Joni mentions on other lists A while back I was pleased to read the following, in a post by Ron Block (banjo player and guitarist in Alison Krauss' Union Station) on the BGRASS-L "People who know me are aware that for years I have been a huge fan of Joni Mitchell, Bonnie Raitt, the Stanley Bros, Eric Clapton, Flatt and Scruggs, James Taylor, Pat Metheny, and a bunch of other timeless artists." However, today I was not so pleased (but quite amused) to read this, from an American lady, on the same list - (where most of the contributors are not afraid to call a mutt a mutt!) "Anyway, I didn't ease into bluegrass or mountain music with any of that mamby-pamby, city slicker, watered-down, Joni Mitchell self-indulgent vein of the music that's now called bluegrass....I had full immersion by fire from the Stanley Sound. Thank God." Well, shit ding!! PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 05:49:33 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Goodbye Mark, I'm really sorry to see you leave the list, as your contributions have always been positive and interesting. I agree 100% with your assessment of how the list has changed. If you're not a Jonifest attendee, you're pretty much frozen out and your posts are ignored by the "popular kids." I stay on for the Joni discussions and don't care about making friends here. I hope that my contributions to the discussion (less frequent these days) is appreciated by the lurkers and the other "unpopular kids." At 06:06 PM 12/10/2003 -0800, you wrote: >More and more I have felt like I am on the periphery of this >'community'. It seems to me that the list is mainly for Jonifest >attendees these days. Personally I feel like the rest of us are out >in the woods somewhere unless we work really hard to force our way in. > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:32 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: steph@cix.co.uk (Anita Gabrielle Tedder) Subject: Subject: Re: Here we go again (2) Jim wrote: < By all means, I (and most others) would encourage you to tell us what the song means to you.>> The difficulty is where the line gets drawn and who draws it. You may, in fact, find my reasons for being drawn to 'Trouble Child' extremely intrusive and, perhaps, too personal. There have been times of desperation when I would have told anybody everything in the hope that something might help my personal suffering. Some people might be okay with that and some would not. <<"I feel much of Joni's music is about contacting and connecting with others in their darkness and this is what some folk have recently been doing here on this site." Here's an interesting Joni Content challenge. Please support that contention, that much of Joni's music is about connecting with others in their darkness. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, I'd just like to see the case made. (As a side issue -- and yes, I'm being a wise guy -- please support the position that Joni would want this connecting to be done on a public forum, verses intimately and privately.)>> Initially, I went scurrying around looking for lines that would "support this contention". Then I thought I don't really need to do that. Maybe I should have said that Joni's music connected with me when I was in darkness. That's indisputable and I see people who are members of this site offering support and help to other members who are suffering at the moment.I think that's wonderful. Is there a case for it? I don't know. Would Joni support this connecting to be done on a public forum? I have no idea but each and every line of 'Borderline'is worth checking out. It has much to say about our personal perspectives and the way we all impact on each other. And,yes, "all liberty is laced with borderlines." I don't know what the discussion lists of Van Morrison or Neil Young are like. I'm sure you're right,Jim, they too are sensitive and emotional people. But at the end of that day it touches me that, if I were ill or dying,someone on a list to which I subscribe and who, like me,have been touched by the music of Joni Mitchell might care enough to put out a hand and help me. No-one else has to feel that way, send any money, read any emails or get involved in any way - but maybe it's okay for others to? Underpinning the subject of all this recent discussion and difficulty is a list member I've never met and who sounds gravely ill. Her family must be struggling and a list member has told us about it and said we could help if we want to. For me, it may be touchy-feely, but it's as simple and personal as that. I can't cleverly find a Joni line that supports me in my view but I could ask where specifically runs this borderline? With good wishes Anita PS I did read that your last email was your final one on the issue and I respect that, but I did want to respond and hope that's okay with you. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:34:09 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Goodbye . If you're not a Jonifest attendee, > you're pretty much frozen out and your posts are ignored by the "popular > kids." I stay on for the Joni discussions and don't care about making > friends here. I hope that my contributions to the discussion (less > frequent these days) is appreciated by the lurkers and the other "unpopular > kids." I'm a jonifest attendee and over the past several days it's come to my realization that this is a internet list and nothing more. As Kate also mentioned, by virtue of being a musician, I have grown accustomed to being very open and empathetic which in many ways can be a good thing. However, it makes me susceptible to making this list into more than it is, an internet list. And I think everyone comes to this forum with high expectations, and often they are not met. Lucy provided a perfect example of how each of us on this list have our own lives, are own obstacles and things we're dealing with that people on the list know nothing about. I wish the best for MG and I may make a small contribution if I'm able to but right now I'm completely focused on things I'm dealing with in my life and don't have much energy to deal with her situation. Perhaps that sounds a bit selfish I do have my own personal life that most people here know practically nothing about. And in order to function and carry on, I think its important to set limits. I have to admit, I was really, really taken aback by how people came down on Jim (who may have used poor judgement but never attacked anyone). I happen to like Jim and his enthusiasm. I personally think some people should apologize to him. It actually scared me a little bit....if I slip up and say something wrong, is this wrath going to come down on me? And I thought, something is so wrong here. Most people don't even really know me. As many people know, I attempted to memorialize jonifest 2001 in the song "Parsonage Lane". And after spending over a year unemployed, I moved to Asheville with a job and a month later was layed off. I wasn't able to find any work there but started writing some new songs and became convinced to record a new cd with these songs and call it "Parsonage Lane". I overcame many obstacles pulling it all together...Everything even threatened to fall through the whole month of December but I was able to pick it up again. I was fortunate to work with an incredible producer and some truly amazing musicians. I also met this really good artist and contracted her to create some original paintings for the cover. I wanted to capture the environment I had experienced at the Full Moon resort, to capture that feeling of sitting around in the woods enjoying music. On the cover, Kate is sleeping under a tree and Jeff Bisch and I are playing music on a porch with various animals hanging out, including Ashara's dog, Pippin. Anyway, I released this in June. It is very much a tribute to the beauty of jonifest and the cd itself is dedicated to Holley, who I have just had to break up with. Right now, I am working hard on trying to build up some exposure, working full time at Whole Foods, and struggling to understand the meaning of love and why it fails sometimes. And just as this relationship has in essence failed, I think this list often fails to live up to what it could be. Some people have been very supportive of me from the beginning and I am very grateful for their support. Many people have shown none or very little interest which is okay too. I guess what I am saying is, some people take an interest in what you have to say and some people are going to ignore you. Even if you do go to jonifest. Everybody seeks appreciation for their contributions. It is natural as human beings. Victor Victor Johnson New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville http://www.waytobluemusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:52:54 -0500 From: "Jim Leonard" Subject: Re: Here we go again (2) From: "Anita Gabrielle Tedder" > PS I did read that your last email was your final one on the issue and I respect that, but I did want to respond and hope that's okay with you. > Sure. Thanks for responding. :-) You asked: "Should I discuss the tuning or the way the lines scan or can I say what the song means to me?" I answered: "By all means, I (and most others) would encourage you to tell us what the song means to you." You now respond: > The difficulty is where the line gets drawn and who draws it. You may, in fact, find my reasons for being drawn to 'Trouble Child' extremely intrusive and, perhaps, too personal. > No, I would encourage you to share whatever personal information you are comfortable in sharing. This is NOT the type of "personal" communication I am talking about. I am talking about one-to-one, person-to-person communication. What I object to is this list being used as a public support group or friends' network. For example, one list member writes that he or she is feeling terribly depressed today. There then follows ten or twenty posts saying, "Oh, you poor dear. I love you." Whether the initial post is appropriate to the list at large, I cannot say. But, why can the ten or twenty responses not be sent directly to the depressed individual, rather than posted to the greater list, an international forum dedicated to the discussion of the life and times (and art) of Joni Mitchell? Posts to the list should be directed to everyone who subscribes. If people think their personal condolences or their words of support or what have you should be directed to everyone, I contend that those people are more interested in what their posts say to the group about *them* than they are in actually consoling or supporting the depressed individual. There is a distinct difference in what you are thinking I object to, and that which I truly object to. > But at the end of that day it touches me that, if I were ill or dying, someone on a list to which I subscribe and who, like me, have been touched by the music of Joni Mitchell might care enough to put out a hand and help me. > It touches me, too. I would hope that their help might be extended in the appropriate manner (in my opinion) -- privately. > No-one else has to feel that way, send any money, read any emails or get involved in any way - but maybe it's okay for others to? Underpinning the subject of all this recent discussion and difficulty is a list member I've never met and who sounds gravely ill. Her family must be struggling and a list member has told us about it and said we could help if we want to. For me, it may be touchy-feely, but it's as simple and personal as that. > My initial post on this subject made it very clear that my comments had NOTHING to do with the call for funds for MG. I actually think that that is an appropriate use of the list, you may be surprised to learn. An announcement is made: "One of our own is in great need, and you can help. Here's how to do it." Bang. Done. Then, if you feel the manner in which the funds are being collected is inappropriate, you write to the organizers *off-list* to say so, or choose not to contribute. It was only the expressions of righteous indignation and the hurt feelings, and the yelling at one another (at Lama, particularly) -- and what was the one-to-one nature of those posts -- that inspired me to write. Almost all of those posts should have been private messages between the "offender" and the offended. I hope this time I have successfully clarified my thoughts. I do hope this will be the final post from me about this. As this message from Andrea shows, however, I will step forward about this issue if I feel my views are being incorrectly interpreted by others to the JMDL at large. Best, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:21:56 -0800 (PST) From: magsnbrei Subject: Look to this day and remember Mary Grace some words from my heart (contains some tfcc) ;-) warning: contains some touchy feely caring content, also known as tfcc . please do not read if you are in any way offended by such things. ;-) I ask, as you read this to please go to that place in your heart and get out of your rational head-thinking for a few minutes so that perhaps you will really truly hear me. Let me speak, for I have no bitterness there. This is not a time for analysis, or putting forth expertise on how things should or should not be done, this is a grass roots, down to earth request, a chance to help someone in need. Someone who has been a part of the fabric of the JMDL for approximately seven years. Mary Grace is a mother, a wife, a sister, a friend, a confidante and many many more things. She may not realize this, however she has affected the very lives of people she has grown to know and love, in many , many ways. She has given meaning and purpose. And, she has pancreatic cancer, stage four. Almost a week ago, I posted a call to this community in response to the news I received about Mary Grace. I still cant quite get my head around this still horrible reality, all so surreal. How is this possible? Like an endless echo in my head, resounding. I cover my ears and yet, I still hear it and it hurts. Mary Grace has pancreatic cancer. Full stop. I believe that when a community comes together, mountains can be moved. In the lightness of that knowing, and embracing the spirit of this community, I put a call out to the jmdl, helplessly hoping that we could do something, anything to help make life a little bit easier for Mary Grace, now, today. This is not about trust funds, or charitable donations accounts or who knows how to do a business or not, none of these things. This is about taking off the blinders of intellectualizing and seeing Mary Grace, the person, sitting there as she tries to assimilate this most shocking news, the worst possible news. Imagine if you will. Your door bell rings. It's me standing there. I tell you that Mary Grace's health is at risk in a very serious way. I hold out my hat and ask for your help. I cant do this alone. I need you. And if you want to, you can affect change in her life. Now. (please remember most importantly, this is NOT about me, I dont want kudos or anything, and I mean that sincerely.) This is purely about Mary Grace and her kids and family. It's about helping her lighten that heavy load. If we do this, then my hope is that perhaps some of the financial burden will be eased from her shoulders so that her family can to do whatever it is that they might need/want/desire to make these days easier, be that sending out for take away food, ordering in a few pounds of Taylor's ham, lighting sandlewood incense..whatever it is that Mary Grace would find a comfort about now. I am deeply saddened to see the domino effect such a request has created. I really am. I had no idea. This was never my intention. Again, this is not about numbers or ledgers, this is about the life of Mary Grace. To date, we have received one thousand dollars, in less than a week. I am totally blown away and am deeply grateful and Im not surprised because of the people who make up this community. It is what we do. And we do the very best we can, nothing more, nothing less. I am moved by such generosity. We will be sending this money to Mary Grace within the next couple of days. And to those who need to know this, an accountant and a lawyer have been consulted and this is definitely appropriate. I leave you with this Sanskrit Proverb Look to this day for it is life The very life of life In its brief course lie all the realities and verities of existence The bliss of growth The splendor of action The glory of power For yesterday is but a dream And tomorrow is only a vision But today, well lived, makes every yestereday a dream of happiness And every tomorrow a vision of hope Look well, therefore, to this day. in all things I ask you from my heart, remember Mary Grace. love, Mags ***** your absence has gone through me like thread through a needle everything i do is stitched with its colour. w.s.merwin New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:36:57 -0800 (PST) From: magsnbrei Subject: one more thing about the mary grace fund It is vitally important that you know that I do not "expect" everyone or anyone to help in this cause. I did not mean to add pressure to anyone else's heavy load. I truly apologize if I have. what I mean to say is that if you can and if you want to, please please do. thank you again. Mags ***** your absence has gone through me like thread through a needle everything i do is stitched with its colour. w.s.merwin New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:47:00 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: season of miracles Suze wrote: > Please open your heart and allow the light of caring and kindness to enter. > This is the season of miracles. I know they can happen. I pray that the > healing power of our combined community will create a force for good. Amen!!! YES, YES, YES!!!! Thanks Suze!! What is it about this time of year that tends to make people trip out, flip out, and skip out?!! I just thank God for the AA meetings I go to where I can vent, gain perspective, and rather than doing something I might regret like bailing from the list or whatever else jingles my bells can focus on this season of miracles and celebrate!!! If you don't have the Christmas spirit yet, I highly recommend you go to the theatre and treat yourself to the movie, ELF. It is hilarious and makes a good point about how we adults can get way too uptight sometimes. To the Elf I can relate all too well. Enjoy!!! Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:04:38 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Re: Community involvement in other's lives? -I wish. Oh My Gawd!!! You had to tell them about the toll road? But you promised! Aw, John, How could you do this to me?! Cripes! Now EVERYONE is going to know how I forgot my digital pictures at the after-Joni-concert party (May 2000 in Chicago- y'all shoulda been there) and YOU rescued them for me! Saved my butt! Thanks again for your involvement in my life, even though we may have only exchanged a few words at the restaurant... Hugs, Steve At 02:23 AM 12/10/2003 -0600, you wrote: >Community involvement in other's lives? I wish! > >-This is not so much a response to Jim email, just a personal reflection... > >I wish it were true I was involved in the personal lives of JMDL members. I >can still recall meeting my first dyed-in-the wool JMDL Joni fan: Ranger >Rick, the day before Joni's opening. I was almost as thrilled and thankful >for meeting him that day as I was about Joni... Whadda cool guy. > >Then came Ashara, and Coyote Rick and and... Hell, I still daydream of >hanging out with Muller, Kakki, Paz and everyone else here. Given half the >chance, I'd park myself at the breakfast table with every JMDL member on the >planet if they are a tenth as cool as those I've met in person. >Unfortantely, the reality is such that I'm less than 2 hrs. away from even >Polifka and we've never met... save one strange midnight rendevous off the >toll road. > >"You people" are wonderful people... I'd be all over personal if I were >lucky enough. > >-My 10 billionth happy listen to Tlog happended today. God, her phrasing on >these cd's is beyond brilliant. Gloriously nuanced. > > > >j. (Happy lurking...) > >(#@%!$!!!!.... I owe Kakki a painting btw... ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:52:45 EST From: Rusty10113@aol.com Subject: Re: Goodbye In a message dated 12/11/03 5:53:36 AM, messling@enter.net writes: << If you're not a Jonifest attendee, you're pretty much frozen out and your posts are ignored by the "popular kids." >> Had to chime in here, as another lurker who's felt at times this way. I love the fact that this list exists, and it's obviously a caring, thoughtful group, but perhaps awareness of this tendency might indeed change things a bit, and open up the dialogue for the lurkers. I'm a total Joni freak, but most of the time I feel totally foreign to the threads going on; I wonder if people are busy and just on 'autopilot' and respond only to familiar names? Nonetheless, I'm quite happy to lurk and commune with Joniphiles in relative obscurity... just my thoughts as the snow turns to rain here in lovely NYC... Mitch ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:33 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: steph@cix.co.uk (Anita Gabrielle Tedder) Subject: Subject:re Here We Go Again (2) Thanks for clarifying,Jim. Understand more clearly where you are coming from - though I still think borderlines are always tricky and very often painful. Anita ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:08:58 -0600 From: David Sadowski Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Here we go again (2) Lists are what they become and I think it's odd when someone posts that they have a narrow vision of what it "should" be that everyone else should conform themselves to. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:20:46 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Here we go again (2) hi >>>>david wrote > Lists are what they become and I think it's odd when someone posts that > they have a narrow vision of what it "should" be that everyone else > should conform themselves to. that is so well said!!!!! ron ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:02:30 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Here we go again Hey jim, it doesn't bother me that you don't like these posts but it does bother a lot me that you find them to be motivated by some need for self worth...because (for me), it is really as simple as being friendly & open & (for me on digest) a little lazy by hitting reply (instead of cutting & pasting an email address)... kate Jim >On other lists, occasionally a list member may announce that a tragedy has befallen him/her, or that there's something personal to celebrate, but that does not generate copious *on-list* messages in response. (To what end, I ask? So that all may see how wonderful and sensitive we are? Is it a self-worth thing?)< [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:19:06 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: [NortheastJonifest] Thanks and Idea that is a great idea paz, i have not met mg so don't have any photos with her but i sure like the idea of sending her photos of partying with folks here...this is not an offer of help (as i am not adept at art things either) but instead just an affirmation that i think this is a wonderful thing to do! > Also any other ideas regarding this would be appreciated. I was inspired to do this after looking at all of the pics from the past fests (which would be good to add in there) of MG and all of us partying. Thanks for your help and look forward to hearing from you soon. Best, Paz < ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:19:09 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: Here we go again Jim: "On other lists, occasionally a list member may announce that a tragedy has befallen him/her, or that there's something personal to celebrate, but that does not generate copious *on-list* messages in response. (To what end, I ask? So that all may see how wonderful and sensitive we are? Is it a self-worth thing?)" Kate the Great responded: Hey jim, it doesn't bother me that you don't like these posts but it does bother a lot me that you find them to be motivated by some need for self worth...because (for me), it is really as simple as being friendly & open & (for me on digest) a little lazy by hitting reply (instead of cutting & pasting an email address)... kate When there are a lot on posts in the JMDL responding to other person's personal joys or sorrows, it reaffirms something very good to me - in this world not everyone has a support base of people they can imemdiately draw upon, if they can draw on many others at all. I know that I have been on both sides of the personal joys and sorrrows posts - even though I have met very few people here, this is a community where I am free enough and comfortable enough to share. Bill Veeck wrote about when his Cleveland Tribe team won the world series in 1948 and he had to go home to an empty house - no one to share it with - I know that feeling very well - if we as a cyber community are a place where we can go home and have this place to not be alone in joys and sorrows, then we are more than just a list about mere music and I thank God for that. And if there are several or a lot or even we get swamped in responses of caring, then so much the better because it assures me that others out there alone feel less alone. As long as it is NJC, then people can emote away all they want. It means a lot to me to know that people care and respond to other people. This is sensitive - but didn't we all wish that we could have done that for Andrea? If I have to wade through 10,000 NJC posts over the next 5 years of my membership here, fine. I can delete just as fast - but it means much to me to know those posts are there from others to others. I belong to numerous other internet communities. This one far and away cares the most for each other. Anyone who has need, just has to post and the support is there. There will never be a Caring Network online that would have the meaning or sincereity as this place - and I would never want to turn someone away from asking for affirmation because we are about "Joni" and other stuff belongs elsewhere. And every time I read one post expressing something for another poster, it does my heart good whether I am involved in that conversation or not. As I look at this world, this JMDL community provides something that we all need and thank you to everyone that we get it here. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:59:48 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Goodbye Dang, this is heartbreaking to hear that such valued members of this community (both mark & deb) feel this list is dominated by those who have attended a fest...i've only been to 2 (out of how many, six or so?) so don't really know who has been to so many of the others (& even so, found it impossible to connect with everyone there in such a short time) ... For some reason deb I thought you had been to one of the fests (that I did not attend)... I don't feel that this list is dominated by festers but no doubt the list is colored by the fact that many have met in person & it is easier to recognize an email address after meeting someone in person... Might I add here what fun it is to meet for the first time, someone who you had only known previously as an email address! Anyway, as far as the perception of 'popular' or 'unpopular', isn't that something that comes from our past experiences? Since I never was either, just someone who drifted around, in & out of groups, keeping my own company (singing to soundhole & my knee!)much of the time, I really can't relate to this concept very well. Lastly, I can think of quite a few active posters that have never been to a fest- rev vince, mike from barcelona, mack from texas, debra from nyc, azeem in london...etc... And quite a few who rarely post but who show up at fest regularly- alison e from slc, yael, nikki from pa, julius, etc... > If you're not a Jonifest attendee, you're pretty much frozen out and your posts are ignored by the "popular kids." I stay on for the Joni discussions and don't care about making friends here. I hope that my contributions to the discussion (less frequent these days) is appreciated by the lurkers and the other "unpopular kids."< ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:06:20 -0500 From: Doug Subject: PBS 69 Perma-Vine CD vine open Thanks to Paul in NYC and after 6 weeks in Postal limbo, I have finally got the "PBS 1969" Perma-Vine CD. This is an excellent show for anyone who doesn't have it already. Send me your address and it's yours to copy and pass on. Doug Joni Mitchell July 7 1969 Mississippi River Festival, Southern Illinois University Edwardsville, IL, broadcast August 3, 1969 on PBS as "The Sounds of Summer" 1) Chelsea Morning 2) Cactus Tree 3) Night In The City 4) Marcie/Nathan La Franeer 5) Rainy Night House/Blue Boy 6) For Free 7) Get Together 8) The Fiddle And The Drum 9) I Think I Understand 10) Both Sides Now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:20:58 -0500 From: Doug Subject: CSNY VCD Vine 2nd Call vljc I've had no respone on this so far. If anyone wants in on it, speak up or I'll send it to the acousticharmonies list in a few days. > Thanks to Emiliano, I have the 3 VCDs of vintage Buffalo Springfield, > CSN(Y) and Neil Young. > The only Joni content is a clip from the Dick Cavett Show and Get > Together from the movie > Celebration At Big Sur. Lots of rare Neil Young footage. > > Here's the deal: The first person who contacts me will, when they > receive them, make a copy > for themselves, then post an offer here and send the original discs on > to the next person. etc. etc. > > Doug > Ontario, Canada > . ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:39:16 -0600 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: Anita's Musical Bday Party for Joni I've received (and listened to, and oooh-ed and ahhh-ed over) the recording of the birthday party for Joni that Anita hosted just over a month ago. (Big Big thanks to Martin, and then to Michael, from whence it came.) It's YUMMY! As always, Strings (the singer) and Stryngs (the band) sound phenomenal, and Chris Marshall's freakin' bass makes me DROOL, and new lister SALLY CLAY IS JUST TOO YUMMY FOR WORDS and must must must record every note that she sings and plays henceforth and mail the recordings to me forevermore (or must move to Alabama) so that I can listen to her whenever I choose. I'll be more than glad to burn copies of these two CDs for whoever's interested.... (unless all 799 of the rest of you want a copy, and then I'm going to be negotiating for some help!) If you need a copy for your collection, just let me know. Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:00:21 +0000 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: Goodbye Rusty10113@aol.com wrote: > I wonder if people are >busy and just on 'autopilot' and respond only to familiar names? > it could be said the more you post the more familiar you become... as for people not responding, despite all the njc debates, whenever I write about Joni driectly, no responses, no nothing ...weird...but maybe it is because i have no musical talent and therefore what i write with direct regard to that is not considered worthy...or as someone once suggested, you need a degree to truly get Joni and i aint got one of those.... there are all sorts of reasons but ignore them and write what you will. > Nonetheless, >I'm quite happy to lurk and commune with Joniphiles in relative obscurity... >just my thoughts as the snow turns to rain here in lovely NYC... > >Mitch > > > - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 00:19:19 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: Anita's Musical Bday Party for Joni Hi, dears! I absolutely agree with Cynthia... and I'd add more (if my eyes weren't closing in sleep) Many thanks to kind Anita for hosting this *wonderful* tribute, and to Kind Martin who sent this to me! What I'd like to say: If you're from Europe (or Asia, or Africa, or Australia/New Zeland)... disregard good Cynthia's offering.... just ask me for it! Yours: Emiliano NP: I Spy, Shana Morrison, Bremen, 2002 PS: I don't find no necessity for improving this list: I love it just the way it is! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:26:47 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Jim's Joni Content Challenge Jim Leonard wrote: > Here's an interesting Joni Content challenge. Please support that > contention, that much of Joni's music is about connecting with others > in their darkness. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, I'd just like > to see the case made. (As a side issue -- and yes, I'm being a wise > guy -- please support the position that Joni would want this > connecting to be done on a public forum, verses intimately and > privately.) I've been thinking about this. While I don't think I can make the case that "much of" Joni's music is about connecting with others in their darkness, there certainly are (imo) songs that qualify. Doing a quick search of the JMDL lyrics database (http://www.jmdl.com/lyrics/), I found 27 songs where the word "dark" or "darkness" appears. Of course that doesn't mean that all those songs are about connecting with someone else in their darkness, but it might be fun and useful to do your own search and read the lyrics and see. For my dollar, I think one of the best examples of Joni connecting with others in their darkness (or perhaps trying to connect the rest of us with some REAL darkness) is the song "Ethiopia." And it doesn't even contain the word "dark." http://www.jmdl.com/lyrics/Ethiopia.cfm As for whether Joni would want this sort of connecting to be done on a public forum, verses intimately and privately ... I once wrote that I think Joni would be appalled at us for giving one sweet damn what she thinks. I believe she would rather we be true to ourselves and do as we please, so long as it doesn't hurt someone else. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:49:15 -0500 From: Doug Subject: CSNY VCD Vine closed It's on its way to Rob in FL Doug ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:59:43 -0500 From: Chuck Eisenhardt Subject: Re: [NortheastJonifest] one more thing about the mary grace fund I have been thinking tonight about the earlier days of the JMDL list, and wondering if it would even be here today without MG's input, her wisdom, her wit, and always, her straight shooting, during formative times. Quite possibly not. Chucke On Thursday, December 11, 2003, at 10:36 AM, magsnbrei wrote: > It is vitally important that you know that I do not "expect" everyone > or anyone to help in this cause. I did not mean to add pressure to > anyone else's heavy load. I truly apologize if I have. > > what I mean to say is that if you can and if you want to, please > please do. > > thank you again. > > Mags > > > ***** > your absence has gone through me like thread through a needle > everything i do is stitched with its colour. > w.s.merwin > > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > NortheastJonifest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 19:08:54 -0500 From: "anon anon" Subject: FW: Stand Up For Hillary >From: "Patti Solis Doyle" >Reply-To: "Patti Solis Doyle" > >To: Icnh@hotmail.com >Subject: Stand Up For Hillary >Date: 11 Dec 2003 14:12:42 PST > >Dear Friends, > >For more than a decade, Hillary has been campaigning and raising money for >Democrats across the country. Since she has been a Senator, thru HILLPAC >and the DNC and DSCC, Hillary has raised millions and millions of dollars >to elect Democratic candidates. In the last election cycle alone, Hillary >traveled the country to headline fundraising events for more than 50 >incumbents and challengers. > >Hillary's commitment speaks volumes about the kind of public servant and >Democrat she is, and how deeply she cares about the future of our party and >America. And Hillary will ABSOLUTELY continue to raise money for other >Democrats. Because 2004 is an extremely important year. Not only do we need >to win back the Senate but we need to win back the White House. > >But, and I emphasize, BUT, we are faced with another political reality. I >have worked with Hillary for the last 12 years. And for all of those years, >she and her husband have been the target of an ongoing Republican assault. >It's vast, and it's right-wing, and the only reason it's not a conspiracy >is because it is very much out in the open. > >"She is ruthless She's unaccountable," says Bill O'Reilly. > >Neal Boortz refers to her as "Hitlary." > >Human Events, a conservative publication, is selling a deck of cards >called, "The 52 Most Dangerous Liberals." They advertise it by exclaiming, >"Move over Saddam -Hillary is the new Ace of Spades." > >"Hillary's main following is made up of a core of emotional idiots. This >core is a personality cult similar to rock groupies, blind and oblivious to >the real world as they swoon over their dear leader," says Newsmax >columnist Charles Smith. > >Now, I don't mind being called a rock groupie, but "emotional idiot" is way >out of line! > >Clearly this stuff is nonsense -- ridiculous, outrageous, blatant lies. >But, the scary thing is that some people - because they see it on TV, or >read it on the web, or hear it on the radio - believe it's true. > >Hillary is not intimidated by this hateful stuff. She shrugs it off and >goes about the business that she was elected to do - making the lives of >New Yorkers - and all Americans - better. That is her job. > >My job - OUR job - is to do something about this nonsense. We, as Friends >of Hillary, need to fight back by getting organized now and raising money >(http://activate.friendsofhillary.com/t?ctl=4D713B:201A266 now to keep >Hillary in the Senate. > >Republicans have made no secret about the fact that they want to take her >out in '06. They want to defeat her because she opposes the Republican >Party's effort to turn back the clock on the progress our society has made >in the last 100 years. They want to defeat her because she believes America >should work with its friends and allies across the world, rather than >alienate them. They want to defeat her because she opposes the Republican >Party's effort to eliminate environmental protections and allow polluters >to reign unchecked across our country. They want to defeat her because she >has fought for veterans, and our children and our seniors against the >right-wing special interests. In other words, REPUBLICANS WANT TO SILENCE >HILLARY BECAUSE SHE IS SPEAKING UP FOR ALL OF US. > >After the 2004 election, Hillary Clinton will be the top target of >Republican strategists. In fact, they've already started. According to >recent article in Roll Call, the Capitol Hill newspaper, Republicans are >"plotting and planning to defeat Clinton and end her political career." The >Republican Senatorial Committee's web site on their home page has a link >called Stop Hillary Now. It details why Hillary is bad for America and asks >you to contribute to get her OUT of office. > >It has become clear that we need to raise money now to keep Hillary IN >office(http://activate.friendsofhillary.com/t?ctl=4D713C:201A266 > >Will you make it your New Year's Resolution to show your support for >Hillary? I can't think of a better way to express your commitment that this >is the year to change the direction of our country - and to show your >support for all that Hillary is doing. > >Will you ring in the New Year by contributing $20.04 (or more!) for a >strong start in 2004 >(http://activate.friendsofhillary.com/t?ctl=4D713D:201A266 > >Our next campaign filing date is December 31. We know it will be closely >watched by the Hillary-haters, who are looking for signs that she is >vulnerable. It is so important that we have a significant total by that day >to show that Hillary has our support - TO SHOW THEY CAN'T STOP HER AND THEY >CAN'T STOP US! > >Sincerely, > >Patti Solis Doyle >Executive Director > > > >PS - Please help spread the word by forwarding this message to you friends >and family! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >If you feel you have received this message in error, we apologize. To >unsubscribe from HillNews, click here: >http://activate.friendsofhillary.com.com/u?id=89E81130C38D13D3948067187ED6D786 > >To view the Friends of Hillary Privacy Policy, please visit: >http://activate.friendsofhillary.com/t?ctl=4D6E99:201A266 > >Contributions to Friends of Hillary are not deductible for federal income >tax purposes >Paid for by Friends of Hillary _________________________________________________________________ Wonder if the latest virus has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the FREE McAfee online computer scan! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:53:04 -0500 From: Doug Subject: PBS 69 Perma-Vine CD vine closed This one going to David Sadowski in IL Doug ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:28:15 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Goodbye --- Rusty10113@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/11/03 5:53:36 AM, > messling@enter.net writes: > > << If you're not a Jonifest attendee, > you're pretty much frozen out and your posts are > ignored by the "popular > kids." >> > > Had to chime in here, as another lurker who's felt > at times this way. I love > the fact that this list exists, and it's obviously a > caring, thoughtful group, > but perhaps awareness of this tendency might indeed > change things a bit, and > open up the dialogue for the lurkers. I'm a total > Joni freak, but most of the > time I feel totally foreign to the threads going on; > I wonder if people are > busy and just on 'autopilot' and respond only to > familiar names? Nonetheless, > I'm quite happy to lurk and commune with Joniphiles > in relative obscurity... > just my thoughts as the snow turns to rain here in > lovely NYC... Mitch! We need people like you! And Deb! And Mark - I hope you really didn't sign off, because you're one of my very favourite posters! It's always, always, ALWAYS good to hear from newbies and lurkers and anyone else for that matter. I fully understand how people can feel left out of the group. To be fair, I've seen it on other message-boards and my inclination is not to join in either. So, even though I've been to a Jonifest, I totally get this. So.... what's your favourite Joni album? Got a favourite song? When did you first hear Joni and what drew you to her? What's your shoe size? And other questions of that kind... ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:29:14 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Goodbye At 12/11/2003 03:49 AM, Deb Messling wrote: >I stay on for the Joni discussions and don't care about making >friends here. I hope that my contributions to the discussion (less >frequent these days) is appreciated by the lurkers and the other "unpopular >kids." I'll speak (as if not an "unpopular kid", as at least a lurker) and say Deb, that your contributions to the list are invaluable to me! Not many people know, but Deb has dug up and contributed probably half of all the articles in the Library database at jmdl.com. Deb was also probably the third or fourth member of the list, subbing on the second day of its existence and has never unsubbed (I don't think) since that day. The main thing JoniFest does for people is to put a face on the email address. In no way does NOT attending exclude or diminish any list member's value. Just my humble opinion. Les NP: David Bromberg "When I Was a Cowboy" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:35:31 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Goodbye At 12/11/2003 09:52 AM, Rusty10113@aol.com wrote: >Had to chime in here, as another lurker who's felt at times this way. I love >the fact that this list exists, and it's obviously a caring, thoughtful >group, >but perhaps awareness of this tendency might indeed change things a bit, and >open up the dialogue for the lurkers. I'm a total Joni freak, but most of the >time I feel totally foreign to the threads going on; I wonder if people are >busy and just on 'autopilot' and respond only to familiar names? Mitch! Thanks for speaking up. Let's hear from more lurkers! I totally agree that it's easy to feel left out amongst all the familiar posters on the list. I still feel that way myself sometimes. Interestingly, I'm basically a shy person and when I go to JoniFest I often feel left out there as well. I realized it's not because I'm outcast or shunned by anyone, it's just that I'm quiet and they don't quite know how to take me. I made a decision to start speaking up and talk to people and guess what? I was in! Simple as that. I think it works that way on the list as well. Stick your foot out there in the middle of the room, veterans be damned. Before you know it, you are part of the inner circle! By the way, I've decided to officially define the inner circle as "anyone who's ever posted to the list". :-) Les ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #386 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)