From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #375 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, December 2 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 375 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- In defense of Last Chance Lost ["Russell Bowden" ] Re: And so once again ... ["Joseph S.E. Palis" ] Covers # 47 ~ Joy (and Joni covers) to the World! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: In defense of Last Chance Lost ["Victor Johnson" Subject: In defense of Last Chance Lost Gang, I guess I'm one of the very few who likes 'Last Chance Lost'.....and here's why.... The first time I heard this song, the first thing I thought of was what a great 'chanteuse' number this would make. I can hear Rosemary Clooney, Ella Fitzgerald, any of the current cabaret artists (Marcovicci (sp?), Weslia, Diane Krall, Azure Mc Call (Hi Bob, LG).....and as for the guys, Tony Bennett, Sinatra......get the drift? This song just proves yet again what an incredible composer Our Queen really is. This is so far away from her usual...(as if anything she does is usual) style.....A really terrific number...and I love the performance on TI. The bitterness and resignation in the lyrics and delivery go right to my heart. Just a few words in the defense of what could have been a classic jazz lieder standard if it had been written 50 years ago. She's timeless, folks! I'd like to also stick up for the Tenth World. That whole 'side' (LP-wise) Otis & Mar, 10th World and Dreamland make up a beautiful and seamless 'suite' if you will. If anything on the FABULOUS DJRD needs to go it's Talk to Me.......Sure, it's amusing, clever, etc....but it's the one I always skip. My 2 clams. Aloha from Waikiki, Russ (Coco Nutz) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Is there a gadget-lover on your gift list? MSN Shopping has lined up some good bets ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 05:37:36 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Poll results - warning: this email may put you to sleep Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: Possibly, but the problem is that the percentages you would get that way would be a function of album size - Tlog has 22 songs, while, Mingus has only 6, Hejira has 9 and LOTC 12 and Miles of Aisles has 18. Yes, that was gnawing at me too - particularly with Mingus. But your calculation of the binomial standard deviation also is affected by album size, yes? I'm still getting at the passionate favorites within albums - since the percentage is within album. I used the mean and standard deviation across albums to get around the low reliability inherent in calculating mean and SD by album. But yes, it's possible, as in the case of Travelogue that no song will be identified as an outlier - and to me this is okay because results for T'log are so evenly distributed - there really isn't a standout favorite. So Bob, let me confess, i just suck at probability theory. I have only ever seen calculations for binomial means/variance etc. in relation to single events. Can you explain how you apply to this situation (off list for the sake of everyone else!)? I can see your formula (thanks for the spreadsheet), but can't make the leap. Jenny So, I do not think your approach would work, unless I am misunderstanding what you would do. I agree with you about the outliers, and using my approach, am in process of identifying the outliers with regard to the binomial distribution standard deviation, which I suspect is a better way of getting at the degree of "outlierness" than the survey sample standard deviation (which I have also computed). For example, You Dream Flat Tires only got 4 votes out of 32 on TLOG (for 12.5 %), but was tied for the top vote getter, and was slighter over 2 binomial standard deviations from the mean number (because an 'average' percentage for that album was less than 5%). On the other hand, Coyote got 5 votes out of 44 for Hejira, or about 11%, but that was barely average for the group (i.e., essentially 0 binomial standard deviations from the mean, even though it got about the same percentage as YDFT, since 'average' for Hejira, with only 9 songs, is 11.1 %). Using a blend of your approach and mine, I could list the songs with the largest number of binomial standard deviations from their album's mean over the entire catalogue, and find the outliers that way. I will post that result when I am done, to find the "passionate favorites" within the various albums - though that (as Bob Muller rightly pointed out) is not at all the same as finding the favorite songs accross Joni's catalogue - since the poll was not designed to do that at all. Bobsart I will summarize some more observations over the next few days, for fun and comment. Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 08:49:51 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Favorites - Jenny's&Bob's blended way In a message dated 12/1/2003 12:50:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, Bobsart48 writes: > Now we're talking. (Maybe we should burn this double CD and send it to Joni as the JMDL's "Favorites" - Hmmmmmm - what do you say, Bob Muller ? Put a little artwork on the cover, > and all that.........?). Well, I'm not sure that Joni needs a 2-CD set of her own released stuff, but looking at that tracklist it would truly be an amazing compilation. Bob NP: Elvis C, "Sneaky Feelings" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 08:55:39 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Re: In defense of Last Chance Lost Russ, Ditto! Ditto! The first time I heard LCL I said to myself- Finally! Hearing Joni just let out a wail of emotion and let her voice float upon just a few words was chilling... She really distilled the break up down to a few lines. She was more private about this one than with any other relationship she had experienced. Or is it what wasn't said that is just as important? Steve At 12:54 AM 12/1/2003 -0800, Russell Bowden wrote: >Gang, > >I guess I'm one of the very few who likes 'Last Chance Lost'.....and >here's why.... > >The first time I heard this song, the first thing I thought of was what a >great 'chanteuse' number this would make. I can hear Rosemary Clooney, >Ella Fitzgerald, any of the current cabaret artists (Marcovicci (sp?), >Weslia, Diane Krall, Azure Mc Call (Hi Bob, LG).....and as for the guys, >Tony Bennett, Sinatra......get the drift? This song just proves yet >again what an incredible composer Our Queen really is. This is so far >away from her usual...(as if anything she does is usual) style.....A >really terrific number...and I love the performance on TI. The >bitterness and resignation in the lyrics and delivery go right to my >heart. > >Just a few words in the defense of what could have been a classic jazz >lieder standard if it had been written 50 years ago. She's timeless, >folks! > >I'd like to also stick up for the Tenth World. That whole 'side' >(LP-wise) Otis & Mar, 10th World and Dreamland make up a beautiful and >seamless 'suite' if you will. If anything on the FABULOUS DJRD needs to >go it's Talk to Me.......Sure, it's amusing, clever, etc....but it's the >one I always skip. My 2 clams. > >Aloha from Waikiki, > >Russ (Coco Nutz) > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Is there a gadget-lover on your gift list? MSN Shopping has lined up some >good bets ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:27:49 -0800 From: frasere@intergate.ca Subject: Re: Today in History: December 1 My first time seeing Joni in concert! It was incredible, and all I was thinking was why hadn't I seen her before, seeing as how important she was in my life. Wish I could remember the set-list. Do remember that she looked fabulous. Best, Stephen in Vancouver Quoting ljirvin@jmdl.com: > 1975: Joni, as part of the Rolling Thunder Revue with Dylan and others, > performed today at the Maple Leaf Gardens in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:17:34 EST From: Michaelpaz@aol.com Subject: Stoltz hits the airwaves! [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type multipart/related] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 15:29:30 -0600 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: JoniFest 2004/Colin/B-days/Wally >>Have any thoughts been given to a date or venue for next year's get-together? Might try and come along. Be afraid, Jonipeople, be very afraid. AMO Hey all you wonderful people, I'm catching up, have been out since last Wednesday... Amo - Ashara is making the plans for Jonifest 2004 and will be announcing it as soon as she can, I don't know the date yet, but YOU SHOULD DEFINITELY COME TO JONIFEST!! Jonifest and the JMDL changed my life and gave me a whole new set of friends! Us be afraid?? Honey you ain't seen nothin yet! Colin - sweetie you are in my thoughts and prayers, continue to take care of yourself. Wally - hope you are feeling better these days, never forget that all your bruthas & sistas here love you so much. You too are in my prayers. Happy Birthday to Jim J. & Jenny! And to anyone who's b-day I may have missed for this week, please forgive and happy day. To all of you who are writing parodies, poems and other original stuff to share here, I am collecting them into a book for the Jonifest raffle, so keep that good stuff coming!! Love to all, db This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:30:28 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Today in History: December 1 "Wish I could remember the set-list." Stephen, maybe this will jog your memory... Woman Of Heart & Mind Coyote Edith & The Kingpin Don't Interrupt The Sorrow and then comes back on for the finale of "This Land Is Your Land". ring any bells? Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 18:55:18 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: And so once again ... Hi Fred Danilo was here at Snug Harbor last weekend b4 Thanksgiving. Brian Blade was playing the same night at the Creative Arts School as a fundraiser. I could not get to either gig as I promised my wife I would attend some other fundraiser with her (with BAD cover music "shake yer booty-play that funky music crap). We did make it to Snug when it was almost over and sat outside in the bar an listened a bit. Brian showed up as well and I at least got to tell him hi. The night was not a total loss as we were all picked up by the ever popular Jack Neilson (in big long limo) and went to hear David Torkanowsky Band at Sweet Lorraine's and Germaine Bazzle sat in with them. It was sublime. Danilo is a wonderful player and I got to work with him a few years ago at Jazz Fest. Best Michael > (Apologies in advance if this has been mentioned here; I just can't keep up > with the list lately.) > > There is an extraordinary version of Joni's "The Fiddle and The Drum" on > pianist Danilo Perez' most recent album called " ... til then." It's one of > the best covers of a Joni song I've ever heard in that it absolutely does Joni > proud as tribute to her version, but brings something very new and personal to > the table, something of equally high caliber. > > Given that the original is a cappella, an obvious choice in covering it is to > harmonize it, that is, create a set of chords/harmonies that illuminate and > compliment the melody. Frankly, it's something I've often thought of doing > myself, and still may someday. Perez' harmonization is stellar, both as > manifestation of the harmonies implied in Joni's melody and as an extension of > those harmonies. If you imagine what Herbie Hancock might have done, that > wouldn't be dissimilar. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:17:33 -0500 From: "Joseph S.E. Palis" Subject: Re: And so once again ... Michael, is this danilo perez the same as the danilo perez who accompanied brazilian singer itxaso in her smolderingly sexy version of cherokee louise? i like the interplay of voice and guitar, though. and i heard of germaine bazzle too. she sang a song with dianne reeves in the latter album ("the grand encounter") called "side by side". love the gravelly feel of her voice. i wonder if she has a solo album. joseph in chapel hill np: david lahm's "in france they kiss ....." Quoting Michael Paz : > Hi Fred > Danilo was here at Snug Harbor last weekend b4 Thanksgiving. Brian > Blade was > playing the same night at the Creative Arts School as a fundraiser. I > could > not get to either gig as I promised my wife I would attend some > other > fundraiser with her (with BAD cover music "shake yer booty-play that > funky > music crap). We did make it to Snug when it was almost over and sat > outside > in the bar an listened a bit. Brian showed up as well and I at least > got to > tell him hi. The night was not a total loss as we were all picked up > by the > ever popular Jack Neilson (in big long limo) and went to hear David > Torkanowsky Band at Sweet Lorraine's and Germaine Bazzle sat in with > them. > It was sublime. Danilo is a wonderful player and I got to work with > him a > few years ago at Jazz Fest. > > Best > > Michael > > > > (Apologies in advance if this has been mentioned here; I just can't > keep up > > with the list lately.) > > > > There is an extraordinary version of Joni's "The Fiddle and The > Drum" on > > pianist Danilo Perez' most recent album called " ... til then." > It's one of > > the best covers of a Joni song I've ever heard in that it > absolutely does Joni > > proud as tribute to her version, but brings something very new and > personal to > > the table, something of equally high caliber. > > > > Given that the original is a cappella, an obvious choice in > covering it is to > > harmonize it, that is, create a set of chords/harmonies that > illuminate and > > compliment the melody. Frankly, it's something I've often thought > of doing > > myself, and still may someday. Perez' harmonization is stellar, > both as > > manifestation of the harmonies implied in Joni's melody and as an > extension of > > those harmonies. If you imagine what Herbie Hancock might have > done, that > > wouldn't be dissimilar. > Joseph S.E. Palis Department of Geography University of North Carolina Saunders Hall, CB 3220 Chapel Hill, N.C. 27599-3220 palis@email.unc.edu joepalis@yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:20:22 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Covers # 47 ~ Joy (and Joni covers) to the World! Hard to believe it's December, but NOT hard to believe that with a new month comes another in our never-ending series of tributes to Siquomb. This month brings #47, a collection of 22 covers of Joni songs, gathered up by me and with a little help from my NYC buddy Paul Maggio. And here's what awaits the listener: 1. Marsha DesLauriers - Big Yellow Taxi: Released earlier this year as a bonus track on her CD, this is a very nice spirited cover of Joni's classic, influenced methinks by the Amy Grant cover. 2. The Practicers - You Turn Me On I'm A Radio 3. The Practicers - Twisted: The last of the Practicers "raw but real" offerings. I like these homemade recordings, especially the clean fluidity of the guitarist. 4. The Ray Bloch Singers - Both Sides Now: Or as MAD magazine would say, The Ray Blechhh Singers....'nuff said. 5. Pickwick Papers - You're So Square: From the mid-60's, this sounds like The Zombies "She's Not There" + some other things thrown in for good measure. They're trying to sound British but they were from Detroit. Either way, this one is great fun. 6. Canadian Suite - Carey 7. Canadian Suite - Raised On Robbery 8. Canadian Suite - Big Yellow Taxi: A three-fer! Cool! Canadian Suite is basically a husband & wife duo now based in the UK but proud of their Canadian roots. Nothing sensational but pleasant enough. 9. Charlie Wakefield Trio - Both Sides Now: OK, this guy is blind so I better not say anything bad or it'll probably bring some kind of bad karma curse on my ass. It's actually not too bad, and it's only about a minute and a half long. 10. Mother Of Pearl - Blue Motel Room: Tell you the truth, I was disappointed in this one...the lead vocalist drops some of the lyrics and doesn't sing in pitch very well. This is from a collection that came out this year of an all-female group playing and singing songs written by Canadian women. Loved their song choice, but the execution left me wanting. 11. Sybersound - Help Me: A karaoke recording, obviously VERY close to the original. Background vocals provided, all they need is for YOU to sing the lead! Sing it, Bree! 12. Karen Mason - Joy To The World/River: From a live recording, this is a duet between Karen & Christopher Denny. It's very lovely and affecting as it contrasts the joy of one song with the melancholy of the other, and the arrangement is also unique & lovely. One of the highlights of this set, maybe a good candidate for a "Sweet 16 Take 3" assuming such a thing ever happens... 13. Kate Peters - Both Sides Now 14. Kate Peters - All I Want: Kate's a west coast cabaret artist, she actually runs a cabaret school for youth & young adults. She's obviously a Joni fan & I like these recordings a lot, though I will say they had to grow on me. 15. Larry D - Carey: One of our own! Larry, you still out there? From his solo CD also released this year, this is a nice playful take of Carey featuring Larry's soft-mellow voice and ukelele. Delightful! 16. Karl Anthony - Woodstock: This one is another highlight, Karl & his wife duet & both voices are right on the money. The musicianship is also of a very high caliber. 17. Carmel Quinn - Both Sides Now: File under lounge wanna-be. Velveeta grade. This reminds me of someone but I don't know who. 18. Karin Krog - All I Want: Karin is a Norwegian jazz singer, this is from one of her rarer LP's. She kind of talks her way through it, carefully dodging those high notes! 19. Alan Tew Orchestra - Big Yellow Taxi 20. Alan Tew Orchestra - Woodstock: I went to high school with a guy named Paul Tew who played the guitar. I hope he's no kin to this outfit, and doubt that he is because I believe this was a UK group. More early-seventies cheesy fluff. 21. The Skidmore Sonneteers - Chelsea Morning: College acapella from 1979, so they were a little ahead of the curve, but their arrangement is not very creative, nor is their performance very energetic. 22. Terry Dynam - Both Sides Now: Reminds me a bit of Gilbert O'Sullivan, if you remember who that was. Another semi-forgettable interpretation from another forgotten singer. And there you go...the dandies & the duds, joni covers that make you cheer and tear and fear...for January 1. :~) Stay tuned, I'll be doing the frisbee thing shortly. Bob NP: Terry Dynam, "Both Sides Now" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:48:23 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: In defense of Last Chance Lost > Gang, > > I guess I'm one of the very few who likes 'Last Chance Lost'..... I wouldn't be so sure. Maybe the 700 some odd people who didn't place a vote really like "Last Chance Lost". :>) Victor NP: MNF Victor Johnson New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville http://www.waytobluemusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:06:10 EST From: HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com Subject: re: in defense of last chance lost (and DJRD) first, let me say it mystifies me why we, as lovers of Joni's wonderus works, have to defend anything she does to one another. heck, that outta the way, I LOVE LAST CHANCE LOST! any of you who have every read any of my posts probabaly know that , with me, loving anysong of joni's is a given. i hear you about the jazz thing and i can hear ella singing it in my mind, the image is a beautiful tearful one. still i say, and i have held this belief for 30 years and i dare anyone to change my mind, no one sings joni like joni...end of story. sure i like to hear others do her songs but more because it shows me just how influencial joni really is, bob the cover man can tell you, just look at how many covers there are out there. DJRJ, the tenth world, otis and marlena, dreamland, talk to me, name a song on that album and i'll give you 5 reasons why i wouldn't skip that song even if you gave me $100. and none of them has to do with who the song may possibly be written about. non fiction can lie and omit the truth, fiction can't. pax noel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:23:41 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Song Poll - the "unloved", "most controvertial" and "most ambivalent" - long A bit more on the statistics. A few of the albums had results for "most favorite" that were so spread out over all of the songs that the results could barely be differentiated from "random". These included THOSL, MOA, Tlog and, to a lesser extent, DJRD and DED. Most of the other records had pretty strong preferences - clearly not spread out (as they would be if the songs were pretty much toss-ups). However, even within those strong preferences, one can see (as Bob M pointed out) that there was more dispersion of "most favorite" votes than you might expect to see among most artists' work. One good illustration of this is the small number of songs that were "shut out" - garnering no "most favorite" votes out of about 40 votes in most cases. In fact, only 19 songs (out of Joni's roughly 150 + polled) that got no 'most favorite' votes at all. This could make a pretty decent album itself (certainly not one without merit). These are the lonely songs that nobody loved the most: Roses Blue Clouds Songs to Aging Children Clouds The Priest Ladies Of The Canyon Big Yellow Taxi Ladies of the Canyon My Old Man Blue See You Sometime For The Roses Car on a Hill Court and Spark Trouble Child Court and Spark Furry Sings the Blues Hejira Blue Motel Room Hejira The Tenth World DJRD Ladies Man Wild Things Run Fast Man to Man Wild Things Run Fast The Reoccuring Dream Dog Eat Dog The Windfall Nigh Ride Home Raybs Dadbs Cadillac Night Ride Home Not To Blame Turbulent Indigo Lead Balloon Taming The Tiger No Apologies Taming the Tiger Note that this a considerably different list than the "Least Favorites" list. That brings us to the "most ambivalent" group, the ones that got the smallest number of total votes (either most favorite or least favorite) - "nobody loves me most, but nobody loves me least". Leading this list were California (with a half of a most favorite vote, and no least favorite votes) and Big Yellow Taxi (one least favorite vote). Hard to get worked up about a group that nobody feels strongly about, so I think I'll leave this alone for now. Finally, we have a group I would dub "most controvertial" - that is, songs that garnered a fair number of both"most favorite" and "least favorite" votes. "They either love me or hate me, but can't ignore me". The overwhelmingly most controvertial song was Ethiopia, with 8.5 most favorite votes, and 10 least favorite votes. Almost half the people named it as either most favorite or least favorite on DED - the votes for most of the other songs on this record were pretty spread out. Here are the most controvertial songs (i.e., those that received at least 3 most favorite and at least 3 least favorite votes, but were not most favorite or least favorite on their CD, using my definition of such from an earlier post): Night In The City STAS Nathan La Franeer STAS The Arrangement LOTC The Circle Game LOTC Little Green Blue Cold Blue Steel & Sweet Fire FTR Electricity FTR Help Me C&S Free Man In Paris C&S In France They Kiss On Main Street THOSL Edith and the Kingpin THOSL Shades of Scarlet Conquering THOSL The Boho Dance THOSL Sweet Bird THOSL Paprika Plains DJRD Ethiopia DED Shiny Toys DED Sex Kills TI How Do You Stop TI I like this mix - I only named two songs as "most favorite" and one as "least favorite", but I like almost all of the rest quite a bit (i.e., they make my top half of their records rather than the bottom half, and some were terribly close to getting my "most favorite" vote). Note all of the votes for THOSL - maybe this is Joni's most consistent album (tough to identify a most favorite or least favorite) - as opposed to the most controvertial ? That's all folks, I'm (mercifully) out of stats. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 02:00:39 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: December 2 1975: Joni, as part of the Rolling Thunder Revue with Dylan and others, performed today at the Maple Leaf Gardens in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. 1980: Joni's "Shadows And Light" concert special aired on Showtime TV. 1987: Rolling Stone had a 20th anniversary TV special which aired on ABC and Joni talked at a few points during the program. Also shown was a bit of rare footage of Joni singing "Woodstock" on the Tom Jones Show in 1969. - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 02:00:39 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: December 2 On December 2 the following articles were published: 2001: "A Trip to the Past" - Los Angeles Times (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=697 2002: "Joni Mitchell Hopes To Release Documentary About New Album in 2003" - Launch.com (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1028 2002: "Tastemaker savors success" - Variety (Mention) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1039 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #375 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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