From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #374 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, December 1 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 374 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Poll Summary - "Most Favorites" [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Favorites [Bobsart48@aol.com] Off the Record ["J.David Sapp" ] Re: Joni Poll Results - Least Favorites [Bobsart48@aol.com] Hejira review and thoughts on challenging artists (sjc) [Justalittlebreen] Re: Counting Crows and Blue - TV ad - vljc [Brenda ] Re: Poll results - warning: this email may put you to sleep [Jenny Goodsp] Re: Bob's Sweet Sixteen - Part Deux [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: Poll results - warning: this email may put you to sleep [Bobsart48@ao] Re: Favorites - Jenny's&Bob's blended way [Bobsart48@aol.com] Today in History: December 1 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: December 1 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 10:16:34 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Poll Summary - "Most Favorites" Bob Muller wrote: "It also says something I think about the tremendous disparity of this group, which again should not come as any big shocker to anyone but I think it's another way that the JMDL differs from the other music-oriented lists that I've been a part of over the years, which pretty much are a homogeneous group. JMDLer's are all over the map, in more ways than one. Yet ironically, this is the most peaceful of the lists I've been on, which I think speaks well of as PEOPLE. Bob" Right on, Bob - as was the rest of your analysis (certainly the one about an "overall" poll being more skewed to her earlier albums) That said, I think Joni would like the idea of having each of her projects represented on a collection, don't you ? Bobsart (still doing more analysis - more observations to come, I'm afraid) ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 11:31:49 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Favorites In a message dated 11/29/03 12:03:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, Bobsart48 writes: Bobsart PS - Then I thought, how could there be a "Hits" and a "Favorites" album without Amelia or River or Hejira - so, I'm gonna add back the 4 albums I cut out to try to squeeze a few more in Oops - River is on Hits, thank goodness. Alright, I've added back the two concert albums, and Tlog - but not BSN, which only has covers except for two songs already on the list. Cactus Tree Song To A Seagull I Think I Understand Clouds Conversation Ladies Of The Canyon A Case Of You Blue Judgement Of The Moon & Stars For The Roses Down To You Court and Spark Rainy Night House Miles of Aisles Don't Interrupt The Sorrow The Hissing of Summer Lawns Song For Sharon Hejira Don Juan's Reckless Daughter DJRD The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines Mingus Amelia Shadows and Light Moon At The Window Wild Things Run Fast The Three Great Stimulants Dog Eat Dog My Secret Place Chalk Mark in a Rainstorm Two Grey Rooms Night Ride Home The Sire Of Sorrow (Job's Sad Song) Turbulent Indigo Harlem In Havana Taming The Tiger You Dream Flat Tires Travelogue ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 11:16:35 -0600 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: Off the Record Thanks to Bob, SCJoniguy, for sending me what I consider one of the most critical Joni recordings of the past decade. setlist: Joni Mitchell ~ Off The Record Volume 1: Early Originals 1. Play Little David, Play 2. The Wizard Of Is 3. The Gift Of The Magi 4. The Way It Is 5. Day After Day 6. Dr. Junk 7. Brandy Eyes 8. Mr. Blue 9. Eastern Rain 10. Born To Take The Highway 11. Carnival In Kenora 12. Winter Lady 13. Just Like Me 14. Blue On Blue 15. Come To The Sunshine 16. The London Bridge Song 17. Ballerina Valerie 18. Favorite Colour 19. Go Tell The Drummer Man 20. A Melody In Your Name 21. Looking Out For Love 22. Hunter Joni Mitchell ~ Off The Record Volume 2: Covers, Duets & Other Stuff 1. Get Together 2. Sugar Mountain 3. Me And My Uncle 4. Mr. Tambourine Man 5. Yarrow 6. Blow Away The Morning Dew (w/Oscar Brand) 7. Prithee Pretty Maiden (w/Oscar Brand) 8. I Still Miss Someone (w/Johnny Cash) 9. The Long Black Veil (w/Johnny Cash) 10. Girl From The North Country (w/Johnny Cash) 11. The Dolphin Song (w/Fred Neill) 12. Heard It Through The Grapevine 13. It's All Over Now, Baby Blue 14. Goodbye Blue Sky 15. Trouble Man 16. The Man I Love 17. Summertime 18. Steadfast To have all the early unreleased pieces on 1 disc is so important to understanding Joni's musical development. GREAT JOB BOB! Its art:) peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 12:28:04 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Poll Results - Least Favorites OK, yesterday I compiled a "Most Favorites" collection from the Bob Muller survey. (I modified it today). Today, we have a "Least Favorites" group. Here's the raw list The Pirate of Penance Song To A Seagull Roses Blue Clouds Blue Boy Ladies Of The Canyon This Flight Tonight Blue Blonde In The Bleachers For The Roses Raised on Robbery Court and Spark Love or Money Miles of Aisles The Jungle Line The Hissing of Summer Lawns Blue Motel Room Hejira The Tenth World DJRD Sweet Sucker Dance Mingus Why Do Fools Fall In Love Shadows and Light You Dream Flat Tires Wild Things Run Fast Smokinb (Empty, Try Another) Dog Eat Dog Dancinb Clown Chalk Mark in a Rainstorm Raybs Dadbs Cadillac Night Ride Home Last Chance Lost Turbulent Indigo Lead Balloon Taming The Tiger Donbt Go To Strangers Both Sides Now For The Roses Travelogue Now, there are quite a few good songs on the above list, IMO. Once again, in order to "purify" the JMDL's "Least Favorites" compilation, I will offer the list below, which replaces any song that is a "cover" of any type with a pure "words and music by Joni" track, culled - admittedly - from a vastly reduced and less significant sample. In this case, I have eliminated 10th World and Smokin, due to lack of words and - to large extent - music. Before I do, however, I would observe that there are quite a few songs on this list showing off Joni's bawdy or humorous side (I refer to ROR, BMR, WDFFIL, YDFT, Smokin, DancinClown, Ray's Dad's Cadillac and - to some extent - Lead Ballon). Is it that we as a group do not like Joni's sense of humour, or that we do not have much of one collectively ourselves ? (Not I, Joni - We could talk about Jesse We could talk about Rowdy Yates I'm not above hockey But I'll sit on a secret where your recipe's at stake Or we could talk about smokin' About Brando and Ray's Dad's math books Or Lead Food Melvin Or last word Suzie's looks Please just talk to me Any old theme you choose Just come and talk to me Mrs. Mystery, talk to me. ) Also, congratulations to You Dream Flat Tires, which made both the "Favorites" and "Least Favorites" compilations, in different forms. The Pirate of Penance Song To A Seagull Roses Blue Clouds Blue Boy Ladies Of The Canyon This Flight Tonight Blue Blonde In The Bleachers For The Roses Raised on Robbery Court and Spark Love or Money Miles of Aisles The Jungle Line The Hissing of Summer Lawns Blue Motel Room Hejira Talk To Me DJRD Sweet Sucker Dance Mingus Free Man In Paris Shadows and Light You Dream Flat Tires Wild Things Run Fast Fiction Dog Eat Dog Dancinb Clown Chalk Mark in a Rainstorm Raybs Dadbs Cadillac Night Ride Home Last Chance Lost Turbulent Indigo Lead Balloon Taming The Tiger For The Roses Travelogue Come to think about it, that still leaves SSD and Fiction, where Joni did not write the music. Talk to Me, indeed !! Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 17:21:15 EST From: Justalittlebreen@aol.com Subject: Hejira review and thoughts on challenging artists (sjc) Hi, gang, Just finished reading this review by Tim Lott from the archives: 1976: "The tip of the iceberg" - Sounds (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=354 and I think it's one of the best, most insightful articles/reviews of JM that I've ever read. I remember in my dorm room in college, which i had to share with three other guys (long, boring story), when one of my roomies would come in and "Jungle Line" or "Strange Boy" would be playing, they'd say something along the lines of "What the f**k is that -- are you out of your mind -- is she out of her mind -- is that really the same chick that sang "Help Me" and "Free Man In Paris"?..." and so on. I'd be just as amazed that they were transfixed by Joni's daring stuff. (This is totally irrelevant, I know, but I lived as the only *out* gay guy in a house full of 30+ guys -- not that there's anything *wrong* with that -- and to some degree, they figured my weird musical taste had something to do with my liking Joni and Laura; maybe -- but I didn't meet many gay guys back then who shared my taste. I was telling this to someone over breakfast at the most recent Fest, and we looked around the dining room at the lodge, and there were more gay people than straight at that particular moment. One had to laugh.) It brings up for me why I like different artists for different reasons. Here are some of the artists that I like *because* they challenge me: JM (above all others) Laura Nyro (everything, even her later stuff, which is less passionate in some ways, but I still love her idiosyncratic hooks. I cried a lot when she died.) Jane Siberry (esp. her very first album, with "Marco Polo", "This Girl I Know", etc., and The Walking, but also all of the others up to Bound By the Beauty. I wasn't thrilled by When I Was a Boy [perhaps she needs a stronger producer, or perhaps she's gone beyond my ability to follow her -- anyway WIWAB seemed a little too abstruse and self-indulgent], and haven't heard any of her more recent stuff. I'd like to hear what any of y'all might have to say about more recent stuff. EARLY Rickie Lee Jones (maybe the first five or six albums (through Satellites), but then I lost track of her, then I got ghostyhead and YUCK CITY. I know some people love this album, but I don't get it.) David Sylvan (Yowsa. I suppose he tends to repeat himself, but don't we all. His music is heavily influenced by his religion [Hinduism, or is it Buddhism? -- well, that's awkward, I'm not sure], but I like his hypnotic voice and complex melodies and rhythms. At the moment I have Gone to Earth [1986, Capitol Records], which I used to have on a double LP way back when; and i have what i believe is called Dead Bees On a Cake, but I've seen it called something else in the press, so I'm not sure; I'm also not sure of the year, since it's printed in brown on brown in 2-point type -- what's the point? (Before his solo career, he was in the group "Japan", if that rings a bell.) Bjork (in spite of occasional opaque, solipsistic or banal lyrics; I *love* the modal stuff she does in Vespertine -- especially the transcendent "It's Not Up To You"; also, I'm sure this was discussed at the time of Vespertine's release, but does the song "My Hidden Place" ring any bells for anyone? And I'd love any recommendations as to which album to buy next.) Robin Holcomb (Anyone else know/love her? She has an odd/interesting Appalachian hiccuppy delivery, now grown rather wispy, fascinating, frequently haunting lyrics, and an absolutely amazing sense of melody. On what I *think* is her first album [1991, self-titled, on Elektra], the song "So Straight and Slow" blows my mind because of her abrupt switches between keys and between major/minor -- sometimes she's singing in one key/mode and playing piano in another! And on her most recent album [The Big Time, Nonesuch, 2002], she does the same in the song "If You Can't Make the Curve". I love this stuff. Does anybody know of any albums by her in the 11-year gap? She's admittedly idiosyncratic, so she may have had trouble getting or staying on big labels...) For melody, I still love Bacharach and Jimmy Webb, ... and SO MANY OTHERS, but I do go on -- just wanted to blather on a while and see how many other fans of these artists there are out there in jmdlland. Best to all, Walt JustaLittleBreen ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 15:54:58 -0800 From: Brenda Subject: Re: Counting Crows and Blue - TV ad - vljc on 11/21/03 11:44 PM, Bobsart48@aol.com at Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: > I just saw (for the second time in a near-stupor) a late night TV ad on CNN > featuring a spot by Adam Duritz and the Counting Crows. > > After the spot, the ad says words to the effect of "join Adam Duritz and Blue > in the fight to keep music education in schools" > > There is a blue, square symbol in the ad which (to me) seemed a powerful sort > of surrogate for the Blue album cover (no Joni picture or anything, as far as > I could tell at a glance). > > Give Duritz's well documented love of that record, and the not insignificant > "brand name" value of Blue, I wonder if Joni has any involvement in this (at > least in allowing Blue to be used as the organization's name and/or symbol, > without copyright infringement). Also, does copyright law overlap trademarks > in a > case like this ? > What you saw was an ad for the new Save The Music campaign which is being sponsored by American Express (specifically, the "Blue" credit card). I don't think Joni is working on this campaign - I know that Crows, Mary J. Blige and former teacher Sheryl Crow are involved. http://www.americanexpress.digisle.tv/blueformusic/ If music education was important to you in grade or secondary school (it certainly changed my life), then hopefully you will find this organization worthy of your support, even if you just write a letter. http://www.vh1.com/insidevh1/savethemus/you_can_help/index.html Another good one is Grammy In The Schools. If you have a business related to the entertainment industry, I highly recommend granting an internship to a Y.E.S. To Jobs student: http://www.grammy.com/foundation/gits/ http://www.grammy.com/foundation/gits/resources.html Jumping off my stump now.... B n.p.: Denver @ Oakland ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:32:42 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Poll results - warning: this email may put you to sleep Hi Bob, I guess I come at this from a different point of view. The respondents to the survey just can't be characterized as a random sample of the JMDL population. So I wouldn't apply inferential stats in this situation at all. This doesn't mean it's not interesting data - as we say in my shop, "It is what it is". But even if we did do a random sample and had a decent response rate, I don't think of the unit of observation as the song. So I guess I can't answer your question - though I have been mulling it over. My answer is, I wouldn't approach it that way. Here's what I would do: For each song calculate the percent of favorite and least favorite votes: the denominator is the number of total votes for that album/category (fave or least). Then calculate a mean and standard deviation using the percent favorite (or least fave) for all songs (regardless of album). Identify each song that is 2 or more standard deviations above the mean for all songs in each category (fave and least). Then you get a list of outliers for her entire catalog. Of course with such little data - you can really just go through and eyeball and pick out your own outliers and I bet you'd come pretty darn close. Why was the response rate low? A good response to an email survey like this would be 40% - with no follow-up or badgering people to fill it out. This was even lower because it was a bit cumbersome and time-consuming and hard too, you know, to ask people to choose favorites. I'm using the 800 or so digest and non-digest members as the denominator. It would be interesting to calculate an 'active' lister total - but some lurkers did respond to the survey i think... Definitely not a statistician! I'm a research analyst - currently doing statistical analysis and reporting for UMass Amherst. Lots of survey analysis included. Jenny bobsart48@aol.com wrote: Jenny wrote "Bob, I think it's great you're trying to make some statistical sense from these numbers - I've been thinking about it myself. " I knew I was in love from the moment I saw you ;-) "You made the unit of observation the song, and the analysis variable the tally of favorite votes. Unfortunately, because there are so few songs on each album the reliability is not great - which is why the standard deviation for STAS is high - when you have 10 or fewer observations, the influence that any one observation (Cactus Tree) can have on the results means that measures of central tendency may not the best way to represent the results. " Yes, the influence of a single "most loved" song can increase the standard deviation itself. And I see what you mean about the small number of observations, regardless of the number of survey responses. But there are a few things I have been mulling over - hypothesizing about, if you will. One is that some of Joni's records are so consistent - i.e, of such uniformly high quality that there are no real standouts and no real clunkers - that the results of a poll might approximate a binomial distribution. I was seeing some of that in the very few preliminary replies I got on the "Top 11 Tlog poll". A second is that if the survey results do produce a distribution that looks like a binomial distribution, does that mean that one cannot take the poll results of the relatively small responding group and extrapolate them onto the entire JMDL ? (I think that is interesting if not important). Perhaps you can help here. Let's assume that there were 10 candidates (songs), and we looked at the responding votes of 44 members of the JMDL. Of course, we do not know if this is a representative sample of JMDL'ers - these are the ones that were willing to respond, as opposed to unwilling. Anyway, assuming the responding group could be considered an acceptable random sample - I realize this is by no means clear - if 7 of the 44 'voted for' a particular candidate (song) as most favorite, how would this translate into a ' 95% confidence' interval (i.e., 15.9% plus or minus X% - vote for that candidate/song over the entire population of the JMDL). Or would/could one simply dismiss such results altogether as not significant at all ? For example, if of the 44 votes, no songs got shutout, 1 song got one vote, 1 songs got 2 votes, 2 songs got 3 votes, 3 songs got 4 votes, 2 songs got 5 votes, 1 song got 6 votes, 1 song got 7 votes and no song got 8 or more votes, would the closeness of that distribution to a binomial distribution suggest that the results are nearly meaningless ? That 'feels' completely wrong to me, but I confess that if the results of a particular album's votes looked like that, I would feel a lot less confident that the "vote leader" for that album would hold up over a larger sample than I would about Cactus Tree holding up ( CT was not my choice, by the way). "But using standard deviation to identify outliers like you did is valid and a fun way to look at things. It doesn't relate to statistical significance. when you start talking about random distributions and statistical significance, we're in the realm of inferential statistics. i.e. were trying to generalize results from a random sample to the general population. I would characterize Bob's survey as a census survey - he surveyed every member of the JMDL - the entire population. So there is no need to talk about statistical significance. Descriptive statistics suffice. The response rate was very low however, so we didn't get a very good snapshot of the JMDL as a whole, but the results are still very interesting. " Why was the vote so low, I wonder ? I think it is possible that there are simply not that many active members at the current time. Can Les do a count of how many different JMDl'ers have posted to the list in, say, the last month ? Isn't this an interesting enough survey to get a high response rate (or maybe Bob M did get a relatively high response rate after all) ? "well I never thought I'd get to apply knowledge from my day job here. " Nor did I, but in my case it's more like curiosity from some coursework 30 years ago. Are you a statistician ? Bobsart Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:43:26 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Bob's Sweet Sixteen - Part Deux Bob - was this your secret plan all along? Start a vast covers project to ultimately win more people over to Joni's music? Pretty sneaky! Good for you Joseph for bringing it to the party. An aside: Judd Grossman is a first class musican/songwriter and great guy. When I was starting out as a performer (in another life), I met Judd at a songwriter's circle and he was super gracious and supportive and gave me lots of free advice and would let me open for him when he came to town to play. Jenny "Joseph S.E. Palis" wrote: Bob, I brought your Sweet Sixteen cd to this party I went to yesterday and out it on the player while everyone's busy with the food and drinks. The reactions were varied, mostly enthusiastic. Most of them were quite taken by Terry Gonda's version of "Both Sides Now" (I suspect they don't really know much of Joni's repertoire and they singled her out because of song familiarity) while others liked Melissa Errico's voice. Personally, I can't get enough of Judd Grossman's "Carey" and the way his voice goes to so many musical places I wouldn't dream anyone would go to (not even Joni). I was also floored by Pam Bricker's slow-fire version of "Goodbye Porkpie Hat" which she imbues with a warm sensuality that is both irresistibly sexy and downhome cozy. Potent combination. I am checking her albums out. But the one that really made me press the repeat button was Itxaso's version of "Cherokee Louise". My first reaction was, "where did she come from?" "how come I have never heard of someone sing so sexily without prettifying the voice/sound?" I have this thing for singers singing in English with foreign inflections/accents and Itxaso zoomed right up in my list. As for my friends who listened to all the tracks in the album, the general consensus was: they didn't know Joni wrote so many beautiful songs. I don't know if that is a putdown on Joni's vocal qualities, or a wide-eyed admiration of her vast ouevre but I'd like to believe that some people that night will buy a Joni album after that. While others were interested to know what Joni albums the songs came from, others just want a "best of" Joni album. I am thrilled. Joseph in Chapel Hill (who experienced his coldest weather ever last Wednesday night with a 33) Joseph S.E. Palis Department of Geography University of North Carolina Saunders Hall, CB 3220 Chapel Hill, N.C. 27599-3220 palis@email.unc.edu joepalis@yahoo.com Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:37:02 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Poll Summary - "Most Favorites" "That said, I think Joni would like the idea of having each of her projects represented on a collection, don't you ?" Yes indeedy, I think she'd find it very refreshing! Bob NP: Diane Reeves, "What A Little Moonlight Can Do" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:41:10 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Off the Record "To have all the early unreleased pieces on 1 disc is so important to understanding Joni's musical development. GREAT JOB BOB! Its art:)" Hey David, don't thank me, thank Joni for cranking out so many great songs early on...and also thanks to you in encouraging me to put this set together...it's a nice way to get all the unreleased stuff I have on 1 cd instead of having it scattered over 12-15 or so. Of course I'm happy to make additional copies for anyone who's interested. Just lemme know. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:48:42 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Bob's Sweet Sixteen - Part Deux "Bob - was this your secret plan all along? Start a vast covers project to ultimately win more people over to Joni's music?" Drats! They're onto my evil plan...mwah ha ha... Actually, I just had PILES of money sitting around my house and needed something to do with it, Joni covers seemed as good an idea as any. (Yeah, right!) In any event, it's been quite a thrill-ride with no end in sight. Tomorrow we'll hear all about Volume 47. Bob NP: Mary Ellen Spann, "Hallelujah, I Love Him So" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 17:54:44 -0800 From: Brenda Subject: Re: Snapshot of our Desert Island Joni (Most/Least) on 11/26/03 3:37 PM, Catherine McKay at anima_rising@yahoo.ca wrote: > --- "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" > wrote: >> Now, Lama: I think the song selection and packaging >> of 'hits' and 'mis s >> es' are the two most destructive decisions she ever >> made in her long career. > .... >> >> Too bad she didn't do even a trace of marketing >> first. > > Here's my 2-cents on that. I think Joni did it > deliberately, to be ornery, and to expose people to a > wider variety of her songs than they might have heard > on a market-researched/focus-grouped version that the > suits approved. Market research and focus groups at a record company are about as rare as meetings that start on time. There just is never enough of a marketing budget to do it. I'd be surprised if any research was done on what songs to put on any Joni record. B ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 18:08:32 -0800 From: Brenda Subject: Re: Warner future The Bronfman deal could be a good thing because people will get to keep their jobs and the company will be private again, which is more supportive of how record companies need to work. The Warner catalog is the big asset so I can't imagine it going out of circulation any time soon; if anything they should work to make it more broadly available. B on 11/19/03 10:36 AM, BRYAN8847@aol.com at BRYAN8847@aol.com wrote: > Part of a story from today's LA Times....will affect the catalog eventually, > no doubt > > Warner Music Group Tunes Up for Bidders > > Time Warner's board is moving toward a decision that could end its > three-decade run as a dominant force in the recording industry. > > > By Jeff Leeds, Times Staff Writer > > On the nation's pop charts, Time Warner Inc. turned in a command performance > this year with hits from Linkin Park, Matchbox Twenty and Simple Plan. Behind > the scenes, however, the entertainment and media giant is weighing a major > retreat from the music business. > > When Time Warner's board meets Thursday, it is expected to take up two > competing offers for pieces of Warner Music Group b and move closer toward a > momentous decision that could end the company's three-decade run as a dominant > force in the record business and accelerate the industry's move toward > consolidation. > > Since September, Time Warner has been in formal, nonexclusive talks to sell > its recorded-music division to EMI Group. The British music giant has offered > Warner about $1 billion in cash and a 20% to 25% stake in the combined > company. > > Warner also has been approached by former Seagram Co. Chief Executive Edgar > Bronfman Jr. and kids' TV mogul Haim Saban, who have teamed with a number of > private investors to offer an estimated $2.5 billion in cash for both Warner's > recorded-music and music-publishing operations. That deal would take Warner > out of the music industry completely. > > With the clock ticking before Thursday's board meeting, potential bidders have > been angling for better positions. > > Sources said Tuesday that the Bronfman group recently had tried to sweeten its > bid by offering Warner the chance to retain as much as 20% of the new entity. > > Bronfman b a songwriter who has written for such stars as Celine Dion b also > has held talks with Hollywood power broker Jeff Kwatinetz and his management > company, the Firm, about a potential role in the new Warner Music structure, > according to people familiar with the matter. Sources say Bronfman, Kwatinetz > and private equity firm Thomas H. Lee Partners have been meeting quietly for > as long as six months. Representatives for Bronfman and Kwatinetz declined to > comment. > > A handful of other investors b among them New York financier Nelson Peltz and > billionaire George Soros b have expressed interest in the media giant's music > division, sources say. But Time Warner executives have indicated that they > remain focused on the offers from EMI and the Bronfman group. > > "They want to run these two horses," said one person familiar with the > situation. > > On Thursday, Time Warner's board is expected to offer Chairman Richard D. > Parsons and his management team its views on what to do with the music > division. The board's input comes at a time when the music industry is > grappling with a three-year-long sales slump. > > In a study released Tuesday, research firm Informa Media projected that global > retail sales of recorded music would fall 8.9% this year, to $28.2 billion, > amid continued unauthorized trading of music files on the Internet and > widespread copying of CDs. > > Reacting to the unprecedented downturn, DreamWorks SKG recently agreed to sell > its recorded-music business to industry leader Vivendi Universal for about > $100 million. Sony Corp. and Bertelsmann are closing in on a deal to merge > their music labels into a jointly owned venture to cut costs. > > For Warner, any move to scale back would mark a dramatic strategic shift. > > For much of the year, the company had been locked in exclusive talks with > Bertelsmann about merging their recorded-music businesses, a deal that > probably would have provided Time Warner with a 50% stake and a central > management role in what would rank as the world's second-biggest record > company. That deal collapsed over disputes about the value of each company's > recordings and other assets. > > As a result, Warner has turned to offers that would effectively mean bowing > out as a significant power in the business after a 36-year span that nurtured > the careers of such acts as Joni Mitchell, Madonna, Prince, Jimi Hendrix and > Led Zeppelin. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:54:44 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Poll results - warning: this email may put you to sleep Jenny replied Here's what I would do: For each song calculate the percent of favorite and least favorite votes: the denominator is the number of total votes for that album/category (fave or least). Then calculate a mean and standard deviation using the percent favorite (or least fave) for all songs (regardless of album). Identify each song that is 2 or more standard deviations above the mean for all songs in each category (fave and least). Then you get a list of outliers for her entire catalog. Possibly, but the problem is that the percentages you would get that way would be a function of album size - Tlog has 22 songs, while, Mingus has only 6, Hejira has 9 and LOTC 12 and Miles of Aisles has 18. So, I do not think your approach would work, unless I am misunderstanding what you would do. I agree with you about the outliers, and using my approach, am in process of identifying the outliers with regard to the binomial distribution standard deviation, which I suspect is a better way of getting at the degree of "outlierness" than the survey sample standard deviation (which I have also computed). For example, You Dream Flat Tires only got 4 votes out of 32 on TLOG (for 12.5 %), but was tied for the top vote getter, and was slighter over 2 binomial standard deviations from the mean number (because an 'average' percentage for that album was less than 5%). On the other hand, Coyote got 5 votes out of 44 for Hejira, or about 11%, but that was barely average for the group (i.e., essentially 0 binomial standard deviations from the mean, even though it got about the same percentage as YDFT, since 'average' for Hejira, with only 9 songs, is 11.1 %). Using a blend of your approach and mine, I could list the songs with the largest number of binomial standard deviations from their album's mean over the entire catalogue, and find the outliers that way. I will post that result when I am done, to find the "passionate favorites" within the various albums - though that (as Bob Muller rightly pointed out) is not at all the same as finding the favorite songs accross Joni's catalogue - since the poll was not designed to do that at all. Bobsart I will summarize some more observations over the next few days, for fun and comment. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 00:50:02 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Favorites - Jenny's&Bob's blended way Earlier, I posted the following list of 19, which produced one song from each Joni album (except for BSN, Hits and Misses). Cactus Tree Song To A Seagull I Think I Understand Clouds Conversation Ladies Of The Canyon A Case Of You Blue Judgement Of The Moon & Stars For The Roses Down To You Court and Spark Rainy Night House Miles of Aisles Don't Interrupt The Sorrow The Hissing of Summer Lawns Song For Sharon Hejira Don Juan's Reckless Daughter DJRD The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines Mingus Amelia Shadows and Light Moon At The Window Wild Things Run Fast The Three Great Stimulants Dog Eat Dog My Secret Place Chalk Mark in a Rainstorm Two Grey Rooms Night Ride Home The Sire Of Sorrow (Job's Sad Song) Turbulent Indigo Harlem In Havana Taming The Tiger You Dream Flat Tires Travelogue Taking the list of the 19 songs that got the most passionate "most favorite" votes among the entire survey (measured by standard deviations from the binomial mean), again excluding Hits, Misses and BSN, we get a slightly different set list: Cactus Tree Song To A Seagull Conversation Ladies Of The Canyon A Case Of You Blue Judgement Of The Moon & Stars For The Roses Down To You Court and Spark Rainy Night House Miles of Aisles Song For Sharon Hejira Hejira Hejira Don Juan's Reckless Daughter DJRD Amelia Shadows and Light Moon At The Window Wild Things Run Fast The Three Great Stimulants Dog Eat Dog My Secret Place Chalk Mark in a Rainstorm The Beat of Black Wings Chalkmark in a Rainstorm Passion Play Night Ride Home Two Grey Rooms Night Ride Home The Sire Of Sorrow (Job's Sad Song) Turbulent Indigo Harlem In Havana Taming The Tiger Man From Mars Taming The Tiger For those of you who cannot see the boldface type (perhaps everyone), this list adds Hejira, Man From Mars, the Beat of Black Wings and Passion Play, while dropping Don't Interrupt the Sorrow, I Think I Understand, The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines(Mingus) and You Dream Flat Tires (Tlog). I like this revised set even better (and I bet Joni would approve, too, although there are no entries from THOSL, Mingus or Clouds on this one). Alternatively, we could simply add those 4 back in to the 19, throw in Comes Love from BSN and get a 24 song double CD of "favorites" with at least one song from each album excluding Hits and Misses. Now we're talking. (Maybe we should burn this double CD and send it to Joni as the JMDL's "Favorites" - Hmmmmmm - what do you say, Bob Muller ? Put a little artwork on the cover, and all that.........?). Cactus Tree Song To A Seagull I Think I Understand Clouds Conversation Ladies Of The Canyon A Case Of You Blue Judgement Of The Moon & Stars For The Roses Down To You Court and Spark Rainy Night House Miles of Aisles Don't Interrupt The Sorrow The Hissing of Summer Lawns Hejira Hejira Song For Sharon Hejira Don Juan's Reckless Daughter DJRD The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines Mingus Amelia Shadows and Light Moon At The Window Wild Things Run Fast The Three Great Stimulants Dog Eat Dog My Secret Place Chalk Mark in a Rainstorm The Beat of Black Wings Chalkmark in a Rainstorm Passion Play Night Ride Home Two Grey Rooms Night Ride Home The Sire Of Sorrow (Job's Sad Song) Turbulent Indigo Harlem In Havana Taming The Tiger Man From Mars Taming The Tiger Comes Love Both Sides Now You Dream Flat Tires Travelogue Bobsart (Believe it or not, more to come later). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 02:15:21 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: December 1 1969: Joni performed at the Worcester Polytechnic Institute 1975: Joni, as part of the Rolling Thunder Revue with Dylan and others, performed today at the Maple Leaf Gardens in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 02:15:21 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: December 1 On December 1 the following articles were published: 1985: "Joni Mitchell" - Chicago Tribune (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=65 1996: "The Ambivalent Hall of Famer" - New York Times (Interview, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=228 2002: "Critics be damned" - Halifax Daily News (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1032 2002: "Travelogue" - Detroit Free Press (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1023 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #374 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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