From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #373 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, November 30 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 373 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni's album rankings ["Paul Mepschen" ] Re: Joni's album rankings [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: joni tarot card ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Joni's album rankings [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: Poll Summary - "Most Favorites" [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Joni's album rankings ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Joni's album rankings now Bruuuuuce ["Kate Bennett" ] joni's angst [tantra-apso ] Re: Poll Summary - "Most Favorites" [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Bob's Sweet Sixteen - Part Deux [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni's album rankings now Bruuuuuce [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: and so once again [HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com] Today in History: November 30 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: November 30 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 11:08:28 +0100 From: "Paul Mepschen" Subject: Re: Joni's album rankings Actually -- Hejira is my favorite Joni album -- the reason that I ranked Blue higher is that it was more influential -- Rolling Stone might one day consider Blue good enough for the top 10, but never Hejira -- Paul of the Netherlands ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 08:37:30 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's album rankings Another one of the Bobs (Murphy) wrote Still, the most over-the-top praise for a musician by a critic in my lifetime must be, "I have seen the future of rock and roll and his name is Bruce Springsteen." --Troy, digesting like a madman Yeah - pretty prophetic, too. Also, like Hejira, that would not have been my call at first listen (I saw him, scraggly and LOUD, at a place called Max's Kansas City some 30 years ago, and wondered what all the fuss was about). Even upon more careful reading, I would take the Joni quotes over the Bruce quote - he is predicted to extend an idiom, she is acknowledged to have transcended it. Here are the two paragraphs from that review that preceded the final five lines already posted: "Joni Mitchell's artistry is difficult to measure against the backdrop of 1976. She is ahead of the contemporary scene in scope, intention and effect. Her music comes from five years on. 'Hejira' is a flight from musical convention. It is, like 'The Hissing Of Summer Lawns,' one of the most important works written within the 'rock' idiom -- though the 'rock' convenience label is constricting and misleading. " I pointed out the Max v Jaco error earlier - here, we see a flawed prediction - - that Joni's music comes from 5 years on. We are here 27 years later, and nothing has quite come from the same place (much less come close to) Hejira since, IMO. In sympathy to the reviewer, recall that Hejira came 5 years after Blue. Perhaps he estimated the pace of human progress in stretching the "popular" music form in those terms (viz, 5 years of advancement = Hejira - Blue). Moral - don't confuse light years with chronological years. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 06:22:28 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: joni tarot card I wrote: >> I also have a Joni tarot card "magnet" on my fridge, kate du nord, card reader, responded: > now that would make an interesting set! who else would be in it? and > which card was joni? queen of cups? XVII, the Stars (which was altered slightly to become simply the "Star") These cards are on eBay all the time; in fact, there's one now at (copy & paste link to your browser if it breaks here): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&item=3366899309&category=210 I'm not sure who all is in the first deck of rock 'n roll tarot cards. There are two decks, both created by Chris Paradis (and you know there may be more). In the second deck, Diana Ross is the 17th card. As an interesting aside, if you go to http://www.chrisparadis.com, you'll get a real estate broker in Saskatoon, of all places! This is not the Chris Paradis who created the tarot cards, but ... synchronicity? You tell me. Lori ~ http://www.aidsmarathon.com/participant/2003/fundraising.jsp ~ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 11:16:49 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's album rankings While acknowledging the "important" status of JM's recordings, let's not forget one of her most self-revealing lines, the modest four words: "I love to dance." The rhythmic energy, the joy, the abandon, the boldness are central. None of her "ideas" or "observations" would have the impact they have if they had been planted in musical solemnity. The kid loved rock 'n' roll; what c'n I tell ya? LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 12:03:54 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Poll Summary - "Most Favorites" I do not think it has been summarized yet, so here is a collection that might be labelled "Most Favorites", based on the Bob Muller survey. I have selected one song from each album that had the highest difference between the number of "most favorite" and "least favorite" votes. In a couple of cases I had to break ties (Two Grey Rooms over Passion Play, because the former had more "Most Favorite" votes, and YDFT over Amelia and Slouching on Tlog, based on my limited poll responses for Tlog). The raw tally is as follows (I apologize for the formatting, but that is a problem with the JMDL's editor - why not edit in Word ?) : Cactus Tree Song To A Seagull Chelsea Morning Clouds Conversation Ladies Of The Canyon A Case Of You Blue Judgement Of The Moon & Stars For The Roses Down To You Court and Spark Rainy Night House Miles of Aisles Don't Interrupt The Sorrow The Hissing of Summer Lawns Song For Sharon Hejira Don Juan's Reckless Daughter DJRD The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines Mingus Amelia Shadows and Light Chinese Cafi/Unchained Melody Wild Things Run Fast The Three Great Stimulants Dog Eat Dog My Secret Place Chalk Mark in a Rainstorm Two Grey Rooms Night Ride Home The Sire Of Sorrow (Job's Sad Song) Turbulent Indigo Harlem In Havana Taming The Tiger A Case Of You Both Sides Now You Dream Flat Tires Travelogue Next, I decided to make my version of a JMDL "Favorites" album, to counter Joni's "Misses" set list. I left off the concert albums as well as Tlog and BSN (which spawned no "original" recordings, except for Jericho and Love or Money and some covers), and added a rule that the song could not appear on "Hits", either. Here it is (16 songs): Cactus Tree Song To A Seagull I Think I Understand Clouds Conversation Ladies Of The Canyon A Case Of You Blue Judgement Of The Moon & Stars For The Roses Down To You Court and Spark Don't Interrupt The Sorrow The Hissing of Summer Lawns Song For Sharon Hejira Don Juan's Reckless Daughter DJRD The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines Mingus Moon At The Window Wild Things Run Fast The Three Great Stimulants Dog Eat Dog My Secret Place Chalk Mark in a Rainstorm Two Grey Rooms Night Ride Home The Sire Of Sorrow (Job's Sad Song) Turbulent Indigo Harlem In Havana Taming The Tiger I'd play this one a lot more than Misses - even if we left Harlem in Havan off (since it had not yet been recorded at the time of Misses, no ?) Come to think of it, I'm gonna put this one together for myself :-) Bobsart PS - Then I thought, how could there be a "Hits" and a "Favorites" album without Amelia or River or Hejira - so, I'm gonna add back the 4 albums I cut out to try to squeeze a few more in Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 10:15:29 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Joni's album rankings > While acknowledging the "important" status of JM's recordings, let's > not forget one of her most self-revealing lines, the modest four > words: > > "I love to dance." > > The rhythmic energy, the joy, the abandon, the boldness are central. > None of her "ideas" or "observations" would have the impact they have > if they had been planted in musical solemnity. > > The kid loved rock 'n' roll; what c'n I tell ya? > Sometimes she's happy. Sometimes she's frivolous. Sometimes (rarely, I will grant you) she expresses pure joy and nothing else. Sometimes there is no deeper meaning, Myrtle. Mark 'She don't like my kick-pleat skirt She don't like my eyelids painted green She don't like me staying out late Living for that rock 'n roll dancin' scene Papa says "Leave the girl alone, Mother, She's lookin' like a moo-oovie queen" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 10:44:10 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Joni's album rankings now Bruuuuuce >Still, the most over-the-top praise for a musician by a critic in my lifetime must be, "I have seen the future of rock and roll and his name is Bruce Springsteen." < Do you know who that quote is attributed to? My friend (a music reviewer) said that but I doubt it was his originally...though he is from nj originally... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 13:45:56 -0500 From: "Joseph S.E. Palis" Subject: Bob's Sweet Sixteen - Part Deux Bob, I brought your Sweet Sixteen cd to this party I went to yesterday and out it on the player while everyone's busy with the food and drinks. The reactions were varied, mostly enthusiastic. Most of them were quite taken by Terry Gonda's version of "Both Sides Now" (I suspect they don't really know much of Joni's repertoire and they singled her out because of song familiarity) while others liked Melissa Errico's voice. Personally, I can't get enough of Judd Grossman's "Carey" and the way his voice goes to so many musical places I wouldn't dream anyone would go to (not even Joni). I was also floored by Pam Bricker's slow-fire version of "Goodbye Porkpie Hat" which she imbues with a warm sensuality that is both irresistibly sexy and downhome cozy. Potent combination. I am checking her albums out. But the one that really made me press the repeat button was Itxaso's version of "Cherokee Louise". My first reaction was, "where did she come from?" "how come I have never heard of someone sing so sexily without prettifying the voice/sound?" I have this thing for singers singing in English with foreign inflections/accents and Itxaso zoomed right up in my list. As for my friends who listened to all the tracks in the album, the general consensus was: they didn't know Joni wrote so many beautiful songs. I don't know if that is a putdown on Joni's vocal qualities, or a wide-eyed admiration of her vast ouevre but I'd like to believe that some people that night will buy a Joni album after that. While others were interested to know what Joni albums the songs came from, others just want a "best of" Joni album. I am thrilled. Joseph in Chapel Hill (who experienced his coldest weather ever last Wednesday night with a 33) Joseph S.E. Palis Department of Geography University of North Carolina Saunders Hall, CB 3220 Chapel Hill, N.C. 27599-3220 palis@email.unc.edu joepalis@yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 13:50:02 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Joni's album rankings now Bruuuuuce I originally wrote to Katethe following: It's attributed to Jon Landau, in Rolling Stone, who shortly thereafter became Bruce's producer. But more accurate, the quote appeared in The Real Paper & was later picked up by RS: http://www.greasylake.org/talktome/realpaper.htm > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Kate > Bennett > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2003 1:44 PM > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Joni's album rankings now Bruuuuuce > > > >Still, the most over-the-top praise for a musician by a critic in my > lifetime > must be, "I have seen the future of rock and roll and his name is Bruce > Springsteen." < > > Do you know who that quote is attributed to? My friend (a music > reviewer) said that but I doubt it was his originally...though he is > from nj originally... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 11:02:16 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Joni's album rankings > She don't like me staying out late Oops. Make that 'She don't like me staying out late in my high-heeled shoes' Footwear is important. As are stockings. Mark > Living for that rock 'n roll dancin' scene > Papa says "Leave the girl alone, Mother, > She's lookin' like a moo-oovie queen" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 19:43:36 +0000 From: tantra-apso Subject: joni's angst A common theme to Joni's negative feelings rgarding her 'position' or recogniton seems to me to have a lot to do with needing approval and acceptance. Maybe this is why she moans about not getting honours like the satr thing and other awards. From what i ahev read of what is availbale, it would seem she neevr felt she had her mothers approval or accpetance. this is very painful and would turn amny people into approval seekers. Even is sh did get these rewards, would she actually feel any acceptance and approval whilst still being denied that of her mother's? It seems unlikely. (I don't know about her father's level of approval/acceptance). One way out of her bind is to realise, at gut level, that her mother is just a fallible human being and her accpetance/approval of her daughter is of no real value. Her mother's ideas and standards are just her mother's, they are not universal truths. her mothers opinion of her daughter, is nothing more than an opinion and ought carry no more weight than the opinion of any one else. In the end, it is Joni's opinion that counts, her own approval and acceptance of herself that will releive her of this weight she carries. Armed with her own approval, the lack of honours will not cut so deeply becauseit won't be so wrapped in that intial rejection-that of her mother's. Part of becoming, includes the recognition of parents as fallible, that their ideas, their meaning creations, are just that, their's and do not constitute Truth. (Once she reaches that, she will also realise the same applies to her own meaning structures! And it applies to everyone's.) - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 16:36:44 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Poll Summary - "Most Favorites" Thanks for putting your various analyses together, Bob...another detail that I found interesting was that very few of the tracks didn't have at least one vote one way or another, and also very few had ONLY "most" votes or "least" votes...this just supports your claim (and indeed what we already know here) that almost ALL of Joni's work is of a superior caliber and is very affecting. Obviously, if you were to remove the album barriers of the survey (in other words, just ask JMDLer's to list their favorite JM tracks, you'd get a very different list heavily weighted toward her first 6-7 records, for whatever reason. It also says something I think about the tremendous disparity of this group, which again should not come as any big shocker to anyone but I think it's another way that the JMDL differs from the other music-oriented lists that I've been a part of over the years, which pretty much are a homogeneous group. JMDLer's are all over the map, in more ways than one. Yet ironically, this is the most peaceful of the lists I've been on, which I think speaks well of as PEOPLE. Bob NP: Al Green, "Georgia Boy" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 16:45:39 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Bob's Sweet Sixteen - Part Deux Joseph, still full from pumpkin pie, said: "As for my friends who listened to all the tracks in the album, the general consensus was: they didn't know Joni wrote so many beautiful songs. I don't know if that is a putdown on Joni's vocal qualities, or a wide-eyed admiration of her vast ouevre but I'd like to believe that some people that night will buy a Joni album after that." Hey, that's really cool Joseph - I think it's mostly because outside of Help Me & a couple of others, people are not very familiar with Joni's work in any kind of depth. If this project turns non-Joniphiles into being more appreciative Joni fans, it's well worthwhile. I'm glad you're getting some good mileage out of it & also that you're spreading the good news around. We had my Dad & his wife over for Thanksgiving dinner, and in the 6-cd mix of background music were 3 discs I would never have had except for the Joni covers on them...Julian Coryell (River), Lorraine Gervais (Blue Motel Room), & Benny Goodman (Both Sides Now). So this project has certainly expanded MY musical horizons, and hopefully others' as well. Bob NP: Lorraine Ellison, "Stay With Me" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 18:30:34 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's album rankings now Bruuuuuce Richard writes: << But more accurate, the quote appeared in The Real Paper & was later picked up by RS: http://www.greasylake.org/talktome/realpaper.htm >> Thanks for the link. And the reference to The Real Paper. My, my . . . I haven't thought of that old rag since Gerald Ford was in office! Did you realize that there is also Joni content in this review/rave of Bruce (which, for everyone's info, is from May of '74)? Here it is: << Still, today, if I hear a record I like it is no longer a signal for me to seek out every other that the artist has made. I take them as they come, love them, and leave them. Some have stuck -- a few that come quickly to mind are Neil Young's After the Goldrush, Stevie Wonder's Innervisions, Van Morrison's Tupelo Honey, James Taylor's records, Valerie Simpson's Exposed, Randy Newman's Sail Away, Exile on Main Street, Ry Cooder's records, and, very specially, the last three albums of Joni Mitchell -- but many more slip through the mind, making much fainter impressions than their counterparts of a decade ago. >> --Troy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 21:46:54 EST From: HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com Subject: Re: and so once again listeing to this album and this song for the umteenth time the other day, it hit me AGAIN just how timeless joni is. how she not only hits the nail on the head but puonds it deep into the wood. this album is so "old" how is it that it still makes me think of event of the past weeks or so? how is it that when i hear "the fiddle and the drum" i cry as if i'd never heard it before? sometimes, forgetting myself i even wonder how it is that many others don't hear it, won't hear it, can't hear it. God bless her pax ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 02:02:06 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: November 30 1981: Joni hosted a jam session at her New York apartment with Jaco Pastorius, Michael Brecker, Bobby Mintzer, Don Alias and Peter Erskine. It was the night before Jaco's 30th Birthday Concert and they were running through some of the music. - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 02:02:06 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: November 30 On November 30 the following articles were published: 1985: "Joni Mitchell" - New Musical Express (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=661 1985: "Mitchell's new LP reflects her anger" - Saskatoon StarPhoenix (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=744 1998: "Eric, Joni, Others In Homeless Benefit" - Billboard (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=437 2002: "Joni Mitchell Targets Sundance To Debut Documentary" - Undercover Music News (Australia) (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1020 2002: "Noteworthy" - Billboard (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1024 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #373 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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