From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #372 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, November 29 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 372 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- joni tarot card [twoshoes@sasktel.net] Joni in NY Times [SMC1254@aol.com] RE: Joni Slept Here ["TheWizardOfIs" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #590NY Times Article [Kardinel@aol.com] Re: Joni's star ? [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Poll results -warning: this email may put you to sleep [Jenny Goodspe] New York Times 11/28/03 [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] RE: joni tarot card ["Wally Kairuz" ] Blue at #30 and Beach Boys at #2 [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #590 [peter stefanides ] Re: Blue at #30 and Beach Boys at #2 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Fw: joni tarot card (for AOL users) [Emiliano ] Re: Poll results - warning: this email may put you to sleep [Bobsart48@ao] Re: Joni's album rankings [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Poll results - warning: this email may put you to sleep ["Victor John] Re: Joni's album rankings [Murphycopy@aol.com] Blue at #30 and Beach Boys at #2 [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: Statue project [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #591 -- Blue at #30 [BRYAN8847@aol.com] expensive handwriting [Randy Remote ] Re: Poll results -warning: this email may put you to sleep ["Lama, Jim L'] Today in History: November 29 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: November 29 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] And so once again ... [FredNow@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:38:37 -0600 From: twoshoes@sasktel.net Subject: joni tarot card > I also have a Joni tarot card "magnet" on my fridge, now that would make an interesting set! who else would be in it? and which card was joni? queen of cups? kate du nord, card reader http://stubblejump.diaryland.com * ~~ Stubblejumpers Cafi ~~ * ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:27:12 -0500 From: SMC1254@aol.com Subject: Joni in NY Times In the Escapes section of the New York Times today 11.28.03, there is a lofty article about Laurel Canyon titled: Joni Mitchell Slept Here...worth a look. Famous Diltz photo. Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 15:01:49 -0000 From: "TheWizardOfIs" Subject: RE: Joni Slept Here Havens: Joni Mitchell Slept Here Joni Mitchell Slept Here By JANELLE BROWN Published: November 28, 2003 LISTEN!" commanded Jono Hart, sitting up with a jerk from the lounge chair on his back deck. His ears turned toward the eucalyptus grove behind his Laurel Canyon cottage. The wind rustled through the leaves, a few dogs barked, and then, faintly, the sound of a bass guitar and a drum echoed off the hills. "That's live, from a recording studio owned by the Doors' former manager," Mr. Hart said. A three-year resident of Laurel Canyon, Mr. Hart is besotted with its musical legacy. Laurel Canyon, a hillside section of Los Angeles near West Hollywood, no longer rings with music in quite the way it did in the 1960's and 1970's when it was home to rock aristocrats like Jim Morrison and Frank Zappa, and when Joni Mitchell sang of "pouring music down the canyon/coloring the sunshine hours." Still, color - and history - remain in abundance. Take, for example, Mr. Hart's eclectic cottage compound, a cluster of three tiny buildings on a quarter acre of shaded hillside. The first was built as a hunting cabin back in 1924, he said, and in the 1930's it was used by movie executives who sequestered their mistresses there for weekend trysts. By the 1960's, the cottage had been converted into a recording studio for Carole King, and a separate wine cellar out back was built out as a drum room. Today, Mr. Hart, an independent film producer and entrepreneur, and his wife, Alice, a publicist, find that the former studio makes for an extraordinarily quiet, if unusual, bedroom. "Everyone's history with the house kind of piles up, and we don't want to change it," Mr. Hart said. "That's the charm of Laurel Canyon - it's like no other part of Los Angeles." Driving up from the Sunset Strip into Laurel Canyon can be a shock to the system. Just a mile from the flashy clubs and hotels of West Hollywood, up a winding boulevard shaded by eucalyptus, pine and oak, Laurel Canyon is essentially a rural mountain neighborhood. The steep streets are narrow, potholed and precarious: turn a corner too fast, and you may end up at the bottom of the cliff. Deer and coyotes wander freely, much to the detriment of vegetable gardens and small pets. The canyon boasts the same sweeping city views as the rest of the Hollywood Hills, but despite a growing number of contemporary mansions, Laurel Canyon doesn't glitter; it artfully molders. Quirky cottages teeter on the edge of drop-offs, cheek-to-cheek with sleek houses by Richard Neutra and other modernists, and grand three-story mansions lurk behind overgrown gardens. As for amenities, residents have only the tiny square at Laurel Canyon and Kirkwood Boulevards with an upscale pizza restaurant and a dry cleaner. Here, the Canyon Country Store - a ramshackle 75-year-old institution ("this store where the creatures meet," the Doors sang) - keeps the annual neighborhood group photo on display. Locals can even buy their coffee on credit. "Laurel Canyon has a very ad hoc feel to it, but it's an ad hoc that is permanent," said Michael Walker, a 10-year resident who is working on a book about the canyon's rock history. "It doesn't seem to change very often." Laurel Canyon's informal historians are a somewhat unreliable bunch, relying heavily on word-of-mouth anecdotes. But by most accounts, the area developed as a summer retreat at the beginning of the 20th century, with an inn, a trackless trolley (electrified buses run by overhead wires) and a collection of modest hunting cabins. The residential building boom started in the early 1920's when developers divided up parts of the canyon into tiny lots. As the much-repeated stories go, in 1930's many local houses were speak-easies and brothels, and the area was dotted with elaborate celebrity retreats built on larger tracts. Two dilapidated stone castles are said to have been the weekend playgrounds of Charlie Chaplin and Harry Houdini, and W. C. Fields is supposed to have had a cabin for playing cards. (picture at: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/28/realestate/28LAUR.html) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 10:09:18 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Poll results Michael O'M posted Most Favourite Songs from the Most / Least Poll, November 2003 (songs that scored 7 or more Mosts) Cactus Tree + For Free Conversation * + The Last Time I Saw Richard + River A Case of You Cold Blue Steel & Sweet Fire + For The Roses * Judgement Of The Moon & Stars * Same Situation * + Down To You + Don't Interrupt The Sorrow + Harry's House * Amelia + Hejira Refuge Of The Roads + Song For Sharon + Don Juan's Reckless Daughter * + The Wolf That Lives In Lindsay * The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines * + Chinese Cafe * Moon At The Window * + The Three Great Stimulants * + Ethiopia * + My Secret Place * + The Beat Of Black Wings * Passion Play * Two Grey Rooms * + The Magdalene Laundries * The Sire Of Sorrow (Job's Sad Song) + Harlem In Havana * + Man From Mars * + Comes Love * + A Case Of You (BSN) * + * Songs marked by an asterisk do not appear in the top 35 of the official JMDL Song Poll (as of today) + Songs marked by a plus sign do not appear on either Hits or Misses Michael in Quebec Not to pick nits (and I did not study this hard, so I could have missed something myself), but For Free and JOTM&S deserve a "+", while "A Case of You" does not. Michael's selection of 7 votes as a marker may seem arbitrary, but in most cases the theoretical mean assuming a binomial (i.e., random) distribution of the selections of "most favorites" produces a "mean" (or average) number of votes of about 4, with a standard deviation of about 2. I will produce some statistics on this later - gotta go soon. However, in the case of STAS, the standard deviation of the actual survey responses for most favorite song was 4.13 (as opposed to the binomial distribution mean of 1.93). This suggests that the results of this poll were not random at all - that is (hypothesis), that among Joni's biggest fans, there is a clear bias toward some songs over other songs as "most favorite" - in this case Cactus Tree is clearly a beloved song, unlike any of the others. Cactus Tree is more than 5 binomial standard deviations from the mean (so this is almost certainly a non-random result). And, in terms of the sample standard deviation (which is so large mostly because of the large vote for Cactus Tree), the vote for Cactus Tree is almost 3 standard deviations above the mean (very significant, statistically). Please trust me when I say I am almost totally unqualified to do a statistical analysis of this stuff - I will explain why later - but I think we can draw some interesting inferences about these votes (and construct some cute hypothetical compilations, too -like "Most Beloved of Joni Mitchell"). Anyway, I might have used 8 as my cut off number, rather than 7 (or, to be even more conservative, used 2 standard deviations above the survey mean to find compelling entries), but I like Michael's idea a lot, anyway. Best Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 16:07:57 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: Pink Dress Concert copy Hi, Jamie! Congratulations for your fast service & effort! Do you mean you've sent it right now? You asked me for it Friday, 24 october. I sent it that same morning. You've received it Monday 27 (that was fast, indeed) You've offered it on list November 4 (without giving me thanks, that's right) Today you wrote on list the "closing notice" Many many thanks! Yours: Emiliano Ps: I'm not really angry (you shouldn't see me that way), it's just my scorpio/anal way of being, and please accept my apologies if it sounds too... - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Jamie Zubairi" Para: "Joni JMDL" Enviado: jueves, 27 de noviembre de 2003 18:57 Asunto: Pink Dress Concert copy > Hi All > > The Perma Vine original of Joni 1970 'Pink Dress' > concert from the BBC on VCD is winging it's way to > Paul Logan. > > I however still have 1 copy of this concert on VCD to > give away to 1 person who isn't able to burn cds. > Please email me if you are interested in this. > > It's a wonderful concert, clearer than the video trees > but shorter (the BBC decided to make it a half hour) > so it cuts out the early version of ALL I WANT (at the > time probably called ALL I WANTED) but it's a lovely > gig, what gets left on. > > If anyone wants to be on the next perma vine please > contact Paul Logan on paullog@earthlink.net > > Much Joni > > Jamie Zoob > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs > http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 10:38:43 EST From: Kardinel@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #590NY Times Article An article in the NY times today called, "Joni Mitchell Slept here." kardinel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 10:41:14 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's star ? Catherine's point (among others) "Or maybe her point is that anyone with enough cash could buy one even if they had no talent. " Yes. My suspicion is that Joni senses that these stars imply self-promotion (all the more so to the extent that one pursues a star oneself, via whatever means - direct or indirect). I think that if she were presented with one unsolicited, she would accept it (kicking and screaming, perhaps, and probably complaining that it was for all the wrong reasons..........) :-) Bobsart PS - just because a star is too far over most people's heads to be seen with their naked minds, does not mean that she is not the brightest in the sky (or in the land). PPS - star bright, star bright, you've got the lovin' that I like, all right ! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 08:25:20 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Poll results -warning: this email may put you to sleep Bob, I think it's great you're trying to make some statistical sense from these numbers - I've been thinking about it myself. You made the unit of observation the song, and the analysis variable the tally of favorite votes. Unfortunately, because there are so few songs on each album the reliability is not great - which is why the standard deviation for STAS is high - when you have 10 or fewer observations, the influence that any one observation (Cactus Tree) can have on the results means that measures of central tendency may not the best way to represent the results. But using standard deviation to identify outliers like you did is valid and a fun way to look at things. It doesn't relate to statistical significance. when you start talking about random distributions and statistical significance, we're in the realm of inferential statistics. i.e. were trying to generalize results from a random sample to the general population. I would characterize Bob's survey as a census survey - he surveyed every member of the JMDL - the entire population. So there is no need to talk about statistical significance. Descriptive statistics suffice. The response rate was very low however, so we didn't get a very good snapshot of the JMDL as a whole, but the results are still very interesting. well I never thought I'd get to apply knowledge from my day job here. Jenny Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: Michael O'M posted Most Favourite Songs from the Most / Least Poll, November 2003 (songs that scored 7 or more Mosts) Cactus Tree + For Free Conversation * + The Last Time I Saw Richard + River A Case of You Cold Blue Steel & Sweet Fire + For The Roses * Judgement Of The Moon & Stars * Same Situation * + Down To You + Don't Interrupt The Sorrow + Harry's House * Amelia + Hejira Refuge Of The Roads + Song For Sharon + Don Juan's Reckless Daughter * + The Wolf That Lives In Lindsay * The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines * + Chinese Cafe * Moon At The Window * + The Three Great Stimulants * + Ethiopia * + My Secret Place * + The Beat Of Black Wings * Passion Play * Two Grey Rooms * + The Magdalene Laundries * The Sire Of Sorrow (Job's Sad Song) + Harlem In Havana * + Man From Mars * + Comes Love * + A Case Of You (BSN) * + * Songs marked by an asterisk do not appear in the top 35 of the official JMDL Song Poll (as of today) + Songs marked by a plus sign do not appear on either Hits or Misses Michael in Quebec Not to pick nits (and I did not study this hard, so I could have missed something myself), but For Free and JOTM&S deserve a "+", while "A Case of You" does not. Michael's selection of 7 votes as a marker may seem arbitrary, but in most cases the theoretical mean assuming a binomial (i.e., random) distribution of the selections of "most favorites" produces a "mean" (or average) number of votes of about 4, with a standard deviation of about 2. I will produce some statistics on this later - gotta go soon. However, in the case of STAS, the standard deviation of the actual survey responses for most favorite song was 4.13 (as opposed to the binomial distribution mean of 1.93). This suggests that the results of this poll were not random at all - that is (hypothesis), that among Joni's biggest fans, there is a clear bias toward some songs over other songs as "most favorite" - in this case Cactus Tree is clearly a beloved song, unlike any of the others. Cactus Tree is more than 5 binomial standard deviations from the mean (so this is almost certainly a non-random result). And, in terms of the sample standard deviation (which is so large mostly because of the large vote for Cactus Tree), the vote for Cactus Tree is almost 3 standard deviations above the mean (very significant, statistically). Please trust me when I say I am almost totally unqualified to do a statistical analysis of this stuff - I will explain why later - but I think we can draw some interesting inferences about these votes (and construct some cute hypothetical compilations, too -like "Most Beloved of Joni Mitchell"). Anyway, I might have used 8 as my cut off number, rather than 7 (or, to be even more conservative, used 2 standard deviations above the survey mean to find compelling entries), but I like Michael's idea a lot, anyway. Best Bobsart Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 13:17:48 EST From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: New York Times 11/28/03 This article from NYTimes.com has been sent to you by dfginmia@aol.com. Mingus: From today's New York Times. Thought you would find this of interest. See ya tomorrow. Dave Gould dfginmia@aol.com /-------------------- advertisement -----------------------\ IN AMERICA - now playing in select cities IN AMERICA has audiences across the country moved by its emotional power. This Thanksgiving weekend, share the experience of this extraordinary film with everyone you are thankful to have in your life. Ebert & Roeper give IN AMERICA "Two Thumbs Way Up!" Watch the trailer at: http://www.foxsearchlight.com/inamerica \----------------------------------------------------------/ Havens: Joni Mitchell Slept Here November 28, 2003 By JANELLE BROWN LOS ANGELES LISTEN!" commanded Jono Hart, sitting up with a jerk from the lounge chair on his back deck. His ears turned toward the eucalyptus grove behind his Laurel Canyon cottage. The wind rustled through the leaves, a few dogs barked, and then, faintly, the sound of a bass guitar and a drum echoed off the hills. "That's live, from a recording studio owned by the Doors' former manager," Mr. Hart said. A three-year resident of Laurel Canyon, Mr. Hart is besotted with its musical legacy. Laurel Canyon, a hillside section of Los Angeles near West Hollywood, no longer rings with music in quite the way it did in the 1960's and 1970's when it was home to rock aristocrats like Jim Morrison and Frank Zappa, and when Joni Mitchell sang of "pouring music down the canyon/coloring the sunshine hours." Still, color - - and history - remain in abundance. Take, for example, Mr. Hart's eclectic cottage compound, a cluster of three tiny buildings on a quarter acre of shaded hillside. The first was built as a hunting cabin back in 1924, he said, and in the 1930's it was used by movie executives who sequestered their mistresses there for weekend trysts. By the 1960's, the cottage had been converted into a recording studio for Carole King, and a separate wine cellar out back was built out as a drum room. Today, Mr. Hart, an independent film producer and entrepreneur, and his wife, Alice, a publicist, find that the former studio makes for an extraordinarily quiet, if unusual, bedroom. "Everyone's history with the house kind of piles up, and we don't want to change it," Mr. Hart said. "That's the charm of Laurel Canyon - it's like no other part of Los Angeles." Driving up from the Sunset Strip into Laurel Canyon can be a shock to the system. Just a mile from the flashy clubs and hotels of West Hollywood, up a winding boulevard shaded by eucalyptus, pine and oak, Laurel Canyon is essentially a rural mountain neighborhood. The steep streets are narrow, potholed and precarious: turn a corner too fast, and you may end up at the bottom of the cliff. Deer and coyotes wander freely, much to the detriment of vegetable gardens and small pets. The canyon boasts the same sweeping city views as the rest of the Hollywood Hills, but despite a growing number of contemporary mansions, Laurel Canyon doesn't glitter; it artfully molders. Quirky cottages teeter on the edge of drop-offs, cheek-to-cheek with sleek houses by Richard Neutra and other modernists, and grand three-story mansions lurk behind overgrown gardens. As for amenities, residents have only the tiny square at Laurel Canyon and Kirkwood Boulevards with an upscale pizza restaurant and a dry cleaner. Here, the Canyon Country Store - a ramshackle 75-year-old institution ("this store where the creatures meet," the Doors sang) - keeps the annual neighborhood group photo on display. Locals can even buy their coffee on credit. "Laurel Canyon has a very ad hoc feel to it, but it's an ad hoc that is permanent," said Michael Walker, a 10-year resident who is working on a book about the canyon's rock history. "It doesn't seem to change very often." Laurel Canyon's informal historians are a somewhat unreliable bunch, relying heavily on word-of-mouth anecdotes. But by most accounts, the area developed as a summer retreat at the beginning of the 20th century, with an inn, a trackless trolley (electrified buses run by overhead wires) and a collection of modest hunting cabins. The residential building boom started in the early 1920's when developers divided up parts of the canyon into tiny lots. As the much-repeated stories go, in 1930's many local houses were speak-easies and brothels, and the area was dotted with elaborate celebrity retreats built on larger tracts. Two dilapidated stone castles are said to have been the weekend playgrounds of Charlie Chaplin and Harry Houdini, and W. C. Fields is supposed to have had a cabin for playing cards. "It was a very eclectic place, with a lot of fantasies," said Jim Nelson, an architect who built his own Southwestern-style house here 23 years ago. "It turned into a place, as the city grew up around it, that actors, writers, singers, creative people could come and rent a little cottage and be right in the middle of things." By the late 1960's the neighborhood was crawling with rock musicians. Morrison, Jimi Hendrix and John Lennon stayed within shouting distance of each other. Not far away, Ms. Mitchell and Graham Nash had their love affair. Frank Zappa had a log cabin that became the party pad for the rock set. Michelle and John Phillips of the Mamas and Papas lived up the road, along with Jackson Browne, Carole King and members of the Eagles, the Byrds and the Monkees. Countless other rock stars drifted through, lighting at the home recording studios of music producers like Paul Rothchild and Frazier Mohawk of Elektra Records. Laurel Canyon was memorialized, in turn, in their music. The Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young song "Our House" was about Mr. Nash and Ms. Mitchell's Lookout Mountain home. Morrison wrote "Love Street" about Rothdell Trail. And, of course, there was Ms. Mitchell's famous album "Ladies of the Canyon." There were several reasons rock musicians liked Laurel Canyon. "It was an older neighborhood, and a lot of the houses were rentals," Mr. Walker said. "They weren't cheap, but you could get a whole house. And the proximity to the Sunset Strip helped. They moved into these canyons as a way to get away from people. Laurel Canyon provided good refuge." That privacy gave rise to a devil-may-care attitude or worse, the subject of two movies in the last year. "Laurel Canyon" was about an aging record producer living in her wild past, and "Wonderland" recounted the real-life tale of four grisly killings committed in 1981 on Wonderland Avenue. John Holmes, the star of many X-rated movies, was acquitted in the case. Not everyone who lived in the canyon was a hard-partying star, of course, but Laurel Canyon was synonymous with tolerance, and people were patient with their neighbors' shenanigans. Bernard Scott, 94, a former postal worker and 49-year resident of the canyon, has a slightly less romantic memory of the canyon's rock 'n' roll years. THERE were a lot of hippies," he said. "It bothered us a lot. We weren't interested in their music. He was more interested in neighbors like Jess Stacey, the jazz pianist who played with Benny Goodman, and Edward Dmytryk, who directed "The Caine Mutiny" and "Murder, My Sweet" and lived across the street. But Mr. Scott's daughter Wendy Farnsworth happily recalled the time their Laurel Canyon neighbors, the Monkees, came by for a visit at the Wonderland Avenue Elementary School, causing a small riot. Once, she even hitched a ride in George Harrison's limousine. "That was fun," she said. These days, rock stars have mostly left the canyon. And while there are graying hippies keeping the 60's spirit alive, gentrification has driven the main music scene eastward, toward Silverlake and Echo Park. Today's Laurel Canyon residents are more likely to be young creative types: writers, artists, producers, photographers, directors and, yes, musicians, many making their living from Hollywood. Mr. Nelson, the architect, boasts that his street alone has an Academy Award winner (Akiva Goldsman, who won in the best adapted screenplay category for "A Beautiful Mind") and a Tony winner (Marc Shaiman, the composer who won for "Hairspray"). Tim Mosher, a former punk musician turned TV theme-song composer, said that the rock stars left a legacy. "I hate calling it magic, because that's crazy hippie talk," he said, "but the 60's culture definitely had a lasting effect. Laurel Canyon is an inspiration. You can write. It's quiet. You can be alone with your thoughts and not be in the middle of the city." Neighbors are friendly; they have to be. Because of the small lot sizes, the houses are close together. "Laurel Canyon is unique in L.A. in that it's a real community," said Mr. Nelson, who calls himself "the mayor of Laurel Canyon" and organizes the annual group photo. "It's a live-and-work environment - that's what gives the place a wonderful texture. There's a lack of pretensions. There's no hierarchy. I know my neighbors by the name of their dogs." The canyon's storied history still lures people. Eight years ago, Jay Chandrasekhar, a movie director, jumped at the chance to move into the Charlie Chaplin castle. Mr. Chandrasekhar, who has since moved to another place with 180-degree canyon views, likes to sit on his balcony at night, drinking beer and sharing anecdotes about each of the houses visible across the way. "There's all kinds of legends in Laurel Canyon," he said. "So, of course, you repeat those stories all the time. That's what we do here." Or, as Mr. Mosher, the musician, put it: "You feel like you're a part of rock 'n' roll history. I didn't make any myself, but at least I'm around it." http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/28/realestate/28LAUR.html?ex=1071038865&ei=1& en=3ae47187261f9eb1 - --------------------------------- Get Home Delivery of The New York Times ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 16:25:30 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: joni tarot card i am sure joni's card is the seven of cups. wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de > twoshoes@sasktel.net > Enviado el: Viernes, 28 de Noviembre de 2003 10:39 a.m. > Para: joni@smoe.org > Asunto: joni tarot card > > > > I also have a Joni tarot card "magnet" on my fridge, > > now that would make an interesting set! who else would be in it? and which > card was joni? queen of cups? > > kate du nord, > card reader > > http://stubblejump.diaryland.com > * ~~ Stubblejumpers Cafi ~~ * ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 14:32:19 EST From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Blue at #30 and Beach Boys at #2 << I know this is what 'we' always do, but I do feel #30 is not the appropriate place -- on the other hand I have much respect for most of artists/albums above Blue -- I have a problem with the # 17 for Nirvana's Nevermind and especially #2 Beach Boys. I REALLY feel - sorry sorry sorry - that Blue deserves a ranking in the top 10 and that Hejira and Court and Spark should be in the 100, but hey, it's fine. By the way, C&S is # 111 -- which is respectable as well. Have been listening to Don Juan's........ lately, which makes me so melancholic, WoW....... Paul of the Netherlands >> Hi, Paul Yeah, I wish Joni's albums were further up the list as well but it's not OUR list ;-) I must agree with your opinion regarding the Beach Boys' "Pet Sounds" at #2... I always appreciated the Beach Boys' music butbfor the life of mebI can't see why so many people rave about "Pet Sounds"... I've listened to it a number of times and just don't "get it." I personally prefer "Surf's Up", which I feel is much more complex (with Van Dyke Parks' input) although it's quite uneven, overall ("Student Demonstration Time" surely doesn't fit with the other stuff. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 12:04:14 -0800 (PST) From: peter stefanides Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #590 trivia question: which characters from an 80's joni album S.W.E.A.R.? peter Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:03:05 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Blue at #30 and Beach Boys at #2 There's a bit more JC in the issue to boot...Dion Dimucci (of Dion & the Belmonts & he also covered BSN) lists his top 10 (p. 152) & "Blue is his #8. Flea (bassist for Red Hot Chili Peppers) puts Blue at #7 on his. (p. 154) And in the XM radio insert between pages 112-113, page 10 (The Loft, XM Channel 50) features Joni as their "Artist of the month" and has a big picture to boot. The bad news...they title their piece "The Queen of Folk". Joni would not be pleased! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 00:24:11 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: joni tarot card (for AOL users) Wally says: > i am sure joni's card is the seven of cups. > wally > - ------ >> I also have a Joni tarot card "magnet" on my fridge, > > > > now that would make an interesting set! who else would be in it? and which > > card was joni? queen of cups? > > > > kate du nord, > > card reader > > > > http://stubblejump.diaryland.com > > * ~~ Stubblejumpers Cafi ~~ * ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 21:09:16 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Poll results - warning: this email may put you to sleep Jenny wrote "Bob, I think it's great you're trying to make some statistical sense from these numbers - I've been thinking about it myself. " I knew I was in love from the moment I saw you ;-) "You made the unit of observation the song, and the analysis variable the tally of favorite votes. Unfortunately, because there are so few songs on each album the reliability is not great - which is why the standard deviation for STAS is high - when you have 10 or fewer observations, the influence that any one observation (Cactus Tree) can have on the results means that measures of central tendency may not the best way to represent the results. " Yes, the influence of a single "most loved" song can increase the standard deviation itself. And I see what you mean about the small number of observations, regardless of the number of survey responses. But there are a few things I have been mulling over - hypothesizing about, if you will. One is that some of Joni's records are so consistent - i.e, of such uniformly high quality that there are no real standouts and no real clunkers - that the results of a poll might approximate a binomial distribution. I was seeing some of that in the very few preliminary replies I got on the "Top 11 Tlog poll". A second is that if the survey results do produce a distribution that looks like a binomial distribution, does that mean that one cannot take the poll results of the relatively small responding group and extrapolate them onto the entire JMDL ? (I think that is interesting if not important). Perhaps you can help here. Let's assume that there were 10 candidates (songs), and we looked at the responding votes of 44 members of the JMDL. Of course, we do not know if this is a representative sample of JMDL'ers - these are the ones that were willing to respond, as opposed to unwilling. Anyway, assuming the responding group could be considered an acceptable random sample - I realize this is by no means clear - if 7 of the 44 'voted for' a particular candidate (song) as most favorite, how would this translate into a ' 95% confidence' interval (i.e., 15.9% plus or minus X% - vote for that candidate/song over the entire population of the JMDL). Or would/could one simply dismiss such results altogether as not significant at all ? For example, if of the 44 votes, no songs got shutout, 1 song got one vote, 1 songs got 2 votes, 2 songs got 3 votes, 3 songs got 4 votes, 2 songs got 5 votes, 1 song got 6 votes, 1 song got 7 votes and no song got 8 or more votes, would the closeness of that distribution to a binomial distribution suggest that the results are nearly meaningless ? That 'feels' completely wrong to me, but I confess that if the results of a particular album's votes looked like that, I would feel a lot less confident that the "vote leader" for that album would hold up over a larger sample than I would about Cactus Tree holding up ( CT was not my choice, by the way). "But using standard deviation to identify outliers like you did is valid and a fun way to look at things. It doesn't relate to statistical significance. when you start talking about random distributions and statistical significance, we're in the realm of inferential statistics. i.e. were trying to generalize results from a random sample to the general population. I would characterize Bob's survey as a census survey - he surveyed every member of the JMDL - the entire population. So there is no need to talk about statistical significance. Descriptive statistics suffice. The response rate was very low however, so we didn't get a very good snapshot of the JMDL as a whole, but the results are still very interesting. " Why was the vote so low, I wonder ? I think it is possible that there are simply not that many active members at the current time. Can Les do a count of how many different JMDl'ers have posted to the list in, say, the last month ? Isn't this an interesting enough survey to get a high response rate (or maybe Bob M did get a relatively high response rate after all) ? "well I never thought I'd get to apply knowledge from my day job here. " Nor did I, but in my case it's more like curiosity from some coursework 30 years ago. Are you a statistician ? Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 21:31:26 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's album rankings Paul stumped "I REALLY feel - sorry sorry sorry - that Blue deserves a ranking in the top 10 and that Hejira and Court and Spark should be in the 100, but hey, it's fine. By the way, C&S is # 111 -- which is respectable as well." I agree (and keep in mind that Blue is my personal # 1 Joni) with you about Blue, Paul. However, I do not feel you are generous enough about Hejira. That was a fantastic review of Hejira that Roberto H recalled to our attention. Thanks, Roberto - I had not read it before. I doubt that any of the other albums on the RS list got a review as completely over the top as Tim Lott's. And he was right on target after just a few listenings - how I admire that !! (Except for one fact : Jaco was the bass player on Hejira, not Max Bennett -who did play bass guitar on Song for Sharon, as Lott stated). Just for those of you who did not bother to connect to the link that Roberto posted, here are the opening and closing lines to that review from 27 years ago - have any of you ever seen words like this written about anyone else or his/her work ? "Understand: Once and for all, understand: Joni Mitchell is not a folk singer. She is a contemporary musician/poet/singer far ahead of and far apart from the contemporary scene. .................... Timeless and majestic, this is music for the spirit. Intellectual and inspired, this is music for the mind. Rhythmic and subtle, this is music for the body. The music of tomorrow, this is the tip of the iceberg. Don't hear this album. Listen to it. " http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=354 Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 22:02:51 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Poll results - warning: this email may put you to sleep Why was the vote so low, I wonder ? I think it is possible that there are simply not that many active members at the current time. Can Les do a count of how many different JMDl'ers have posted to the list in, say, the last month ? Isn't this an interesting enough survey to get a high response rate (or maybe Bob M did get a relatively high response rate after all) ? I was aware of the survey, considered responding, and then decided that I would prefer to just enjoy listening to Joni Mitchell and not try to pick favorite songs...I like them all and prefer to just leave it at that. Lately I've really been getting into the early seventies Stevie Wonder, and trying to learn new songs from those albums. My favorites this week have been "Think of Me as Your Soldier" and "Superwoman(Where Were You When I Needed You)." On November 25th, it was the 29th anniversary of the passing away of Nick Drake. Next year it will have been thirty years-seems hard to believe. I was just listening to Tom Waits "Alice" a great album for a cold winter night. I just put on Def Leppard, which I haven't listened much since I bought their album in 1984 or their abouts...interestingly enough, the same engineer, Mike Shipley, worked with both Def Leppard and Joni Mitchell. On December 18th, the Return of the King opens in theatres across the country. The song "Master of the Ring" is featured on my cd, Parsonage Lane, and was inspired by the LoTR. I hope to get it to Peter Jackson eventually as I think he would really dig it. I recently attended a screening of "The Barbarian Invasion" directed by Denys Arcand, from Montreal. Afterwards, I met the director and listened to him answer questions. It is an incredible film, about a man coming to terms with his imminent death, and being reunited with his estranged son and several other friends from throughout his life. I'm not sure how I ended up talking about movies but I guess I naturally shy away from surveys of any kind. So what's everyone's favorite Def Leppard song??? Mine is "Putting on the Heartbreak". Victor, full of contradictions. NP: Def Leppard Victor Johnson New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville http://www.waytobluemusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 22:05:36 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's album rankings One of the Bobs -- Bobsart -- writes: << have any of you ever seen words like this written about anyone else or his/her work ? "Understand: Once and for all, understand: Joni Mitchell is not a folk singer. She is a contemporary musician/poet/singer far ahead of and far apart from the contemporary scene. >> That is cool, Bob. And a great description of Herself. Still, the most over-the-top praise for a musician by a critic in my lifetime must be, "I have seen the future of rock and roll and his name is Bruce Springsteen." --Troy, digesting like a madman ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 22:25:44 EST From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Blue at #30 and Beach Boys at #2 << I know this is what 'we' always do, but I do feel #30 is not the appropriate place -- on the other hand I have much respect for most of artists/albums above Blue -- I have a problem with the # 17 for Nirvana's Nevermind and especially #2 Beach Boys. I REALLY feel - sorry sorry sorry - that Blue deserves a ranking in the top 10 and that Hejira and Court and Spark should be in the 100, but hey, it's fine. By the way, C&S is # 111 -- which is respectable as well. Have been listening to Don Juan's........ lately, which makes me so melancholic, WoW....... Paul of the Netherlands >> Hi, Paul Yeah, I wish Joni's albums were further up the list as well but it's not OUR list ;-) I must agree with your opinion regarding the Beach Boys' "Pet Sounds" at #2... I always appreciated the Beach Boys' music butbfor the life of mebI can't see why so many people rave about "Pet Sounds"... I've listened to it a number of times and just don't "get it." I personally prefer "Surf's Up", which I feel is much more complex (with Van Dyke Parks' input) although it's quite uneven, overall ("Student Demonstration Time" surely doesn't fit with the other stuff. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 23:06:19 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Statue project Kate asked a while ago: <> I did, and e-mailed the person in charge of it a while ago to see what was up, and never got a response back. :-( Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 23:20:22 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #591 -- Blue at #30 Subject: Blue at #30 and Beach Boys at #2 I don't want to start some big bitter thread about sexism --- but I can't help but feel that there is some sexism at work here (after all, how could they rate one woman as highly as a group of men!). It's the same old thing Joni has mentioned so many times...looking at the artist's work in the context "female artists" rather than just looking at it for its merits. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 21:46:55 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: expensive handwriting Hi guys--I've been absent for awhile (too) but seeing this on ebay got me out of lurk. Anyone with an extra $2500 can have a sheet of notebook paper with Joni's handwritten songlist for T'Log. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3366394429&category=210 Peace & Luv, RR np: concert for George on FM radio ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 01:14:46 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Poll results -warning: this email may put you to sleep Let's see, Jennie. You can sing. You look, well, you know. You can lead groups. You can play. You are generous with others. You are easy to talk to. And you can do statistical analysis. Hmmm... Jenny, no one is THIS close to perfect. Tell me the truth: You don't floss, right? All the best, Lama PS, I almost split the infinitive "THIS perfect" but the IQ level of this thread inspired me to check it over b4 sinding. sindding. sinnniding... posting. PPSS, I took two statistics classes (consecutively, not repeatedly!). It was slower back then because we used slide rules. nyuck, nyuck. Hey, don't knock slide rules. On the Apollo missions, they did backup calculations on slide rules. "Fly me to the moon", indeed. Jenny, the birthday girl said, >Bob, because there are so few songs on each album the reliability is not great - which is why the standard deviation for STAS is high - when you have 10 or fewer observations, the influence that any one observation (Cactus Tree) can have on the results means that measures of central tendency may not the best way to represent the results.> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 02:19:16 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: November 29 1975: Joni, as part of the Rolling Thunder Revue with Dylan and others, performed today at the Quebec City Coliseum in Quebec City, Quebec, Canada. - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 02:19:16 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: November 29 On November 29 the following articles were published: 1975: "Joni: A Bigger Splash" - Melody Maker (Review - Album, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=185 2002: "Hot Sheet" - Entertainment Weekly (Mention) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1045 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 02:20:22 -0500 From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: And so once again ... (Apologies in advance if this has been mentioned here; I just can't keep up with the list lately.) There is an extraordinary version of Joni's "The Fiddle and The Drum" on pianist Danilo Perez' most recent album called " ... til then." It's one of the best covers of a Joni song I've ever heard in that it absolutely does Joni proud as tribute to her version, but brings something very new and personal to the table, something of equally high caliber. Given that the original is a cappella, an obvious choice in covering it is to harmonize it, that is, create a set of chords/harmonies that illuminate and compliment the melody. Frankly, it's something I've often thought of doing myself, and still may someday. Perez' harmonization is stellar, both as manifestation of the harmonies implied in Joni's melody and as an extension of those harmonies. If you imagine what Herbie Hancock might have done, that wouldn't be dissimilar. Then there's the singer, Lizz Wright, with whom I had not been familiar. She has a beautiful, burnished contralto voice which does echo Joni's early contralto (as opposed to Joni's early soprano, or late contralto) but is absolutely her own. And she uses it with taste and musicality, never once given to "jazzy" pretense. (By the way, the whole album is great; mostly instrumental, a mix of originals, including one by Perez and Wright together, and covers of Milton Nascimento, Stevie Wonder, and others. Brian Blade is the primary drummer, and both he and Perez are currently in Wayne Shorter's band. It's a small musical world, isn't it?) Finally, in encountering once again one of my all-time favorite Joni songs, I'm blown away anew by her insight and the prescience of the lyric ... it just could not possibly be more timely than right now, even more so than the Vietnam era in which it was composed. Read it again and think long and deep about how one nation, under BushCo, has been acting; I *can* remember all the good things we are but it's getting harder and harder. - -Fred THE FIDDLE AND THE DRUM And so once again My dear Johnny my dear friend And so once again you are fightin' us all And when I ask you why You raise your sticks and cry, and I fall Oh, my friend How did you come To trade the fiddle for the drum You say I have turned Like the enemies you've earned But I can remember All the good things you are And so I ask you please Can I help you find the peace and the star Oh, my friend What time is this To trade the handshake for the fist And so once again Oh, America my friend And so once again You are fighting us all And when we ask you why You raise your sticks and cry and we fall Oh, my friend How did you come To trade the fiddle for the drum You say we have turned Like the enemies you've earned But we can remember All the good things you are And so we ask you please Can we help you find the peace and the star Oh my friend We have all come To fear the beating of your drum. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #372 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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