From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #370 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, November 27 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 370 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Blue- #30 top album all time ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] Joni Mitchell Handwritten Song List ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Our Shooting Star's Missing Star [CoyoteRick@aol.com] Re: Joni's Basketball Game ["Steve Polifka" ] Joni's #30 [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Re: Joni's Basketball Game [Catherine McKay ] Snapshot of our Desert Island Joni (Most/Least) ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Our Shooting Star's Missing Star [Catherine McKay ] Blue- #30 top album all time ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Blue- #30 top album all time ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Our Shooting Star's Missing Star ["kakki" ] Re: Our Shooting Star's Missing Star [Catherine McKay ] Today in History: November 27 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: November 27 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] JoniFest 2004 ["TheWizardOfIs" ] Thank you Les! [rholliston@HighSpeedPlus.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:30:43 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Blue- #30 top album all time I have only read up to #30 on the Rolling Stone top 500 albums and at #30 is Blue!!!!!!!!!!!!! Before anyone rips into Rolling Stone as is the custom here for their making of lists, I have just read 273 posts about favorite and least favorotes songs off of each album, among all the lists we do here, so please, if we can make lists, Rolling Stone can make lists, and instead of being snippy at Rolling Stone as is the custiom, let's celebrate a real high placement for Joni! "Oh, but Mabel, it should have been For the Roses. Rolling Stone is a stupid filty rag." "Now Petunia, you know it should have been Heijra. Jann Wenner should be castrated." Vince, the usual heretic here ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:23:52 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: RE: Saw Joni on VH1 Classic Thank you so much for responding Maggie! Oh! Oh! That really hurts! (about your brother) I'm sorry but your brother is in deep doggie pooh with me too! I would have loved to have been there as well! I say that I don't miss not seeing her, but I think I would have to make that concert an exception because of the number of fellow Jonilistas attending and because that was a time that she was just starting to come back to us after being out of the public eye for so long. There was such an excitement on the Joni list about it! I'll never forget it. Love, Sherelle >From: "Maggie McNally" >To: "Sherelle Smith" ,"JMDL (E-mail)" > >Subject: RE: Saw Joni on VH1 Classic >Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:10:31 -0500 > >Hi Sherelle, > >Just wanted to quickly confirm ('though I'm sure you have already received >plenty of feedback) that, yes, the date was 1998. I remember that I flew >from Boston to San Francisco to attend the Joni/Bob/Van Bay Area concert >and then flew back. My brother got an invitation to attend the taping and >declined and DIDN'T CONTACT ME because he "knew" that I wouldn't want to go >back to the west coast again so soon. I still haven't forgiven him that >assumption! > >Glad you got to see it...it's such a winner. > >Best, >Maggie > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sherelle Smith [mailto:sherellesmith@hotmail.com] > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 12:04 PM > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Saw Joni on VH1 Classic > > > I was on my way out the door Saturday evening when I saw Joni > on VH1 Classic > doing "Woodstock" and was in 7th heaven! My daughter had > driven down from > Connecticut to visit and she was treating me to dinner. she > knows how much I > love Joni so she just sat there and giggled at me! Joni was > playing her V-8 > and it sounded fantastic! Believe it or not, I have never seen > her live but > I don't feel deprived in any way. Her music fills me up so > much and as I > have said in the past, in my opinion, live for Joni doesn't > get any better > than Shadows and Light. > > I think the broadcast was taken from "Painting with Words and > Music". Was > that the special that so many of our Jonilistas attended? I > think the date > on the video was 1998. Help me out here! (Smile) > > Sherelle > > _________________________________________________________________ > Set yourself up for fun at home! Get tips on home > entertainment equipment, > video game reviews, and more here. > http://special.msn.com/home/homeent.armx > _________________________________________________________________ Set yourself up for fun at home! Get tips on home entertainment equipment, video game reviews, and more here. http://special.msn.com/home/homeent.armx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 09:46:14 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Joni Mitchell Handwritten Song List A tad expensive for my wallet, but nice to look at just the same. Copy and paste this link to your browser if it breaks up here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&item=3366394429&category=210 Lori ~ http://www.aidsmarathon.com/participant/2003/fundraising.jsp ~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:52:44 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Blue- #30 top album all time "I have only read up to #30 on the Rolling Stone top 500 albums and at #30 is Blue!!!!!!!!!!!!!" It's also the highest ranking LP of any female...I haven't gotten that issue yet but had read about the ranking of Blue...hopefully it's in my mailbox as we speak. Bob NP: Elvis Costello, "Temptation" 6/11/99 - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:30:14 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Joni's Basketball Game See how many Joni song titles you can find! Happy Thanksgiving! Larry: Good morning Morgantown, and welcome to today's contest on this sunny Sunday between The California Sweet Birds & The Woodstock Coyotes. And helping me with today's broadcast, here's Don Carey... Don: Thanks Larry, and I know that even though we may be interrupting people's parties over the holidays, I hope they'll take time to watch this game, after all it's for free if you're watching from home! I don't know where I stand in sizing these two teams up...help me separate the shadows and light here, willya Larry? Larry: I'll give it a try Don, but as you know I'm a bit of a strange boy and comparing these two young squads is like deciphering a menu in a Chinese cafe. The Sweet Birds, as you know, just signed a man from Mars who only plays defense, and the coach is trying to teach him to play both sides. Now, if he's not able to do that, the Coyotes will have a banquet on the offensive boards. How do you stop them on those 5-on-4 breaks? Down to you, Don. Don: Right you are, Larry. If they can't turn around that same situation, then nothing can be done to prevent Woodstock from winning this game and making the Birds' coach a blue boy. As you know, their coach Richard Willy, used to be the priest in his local parish, and the last time I saw Richard we talked about his chances in this particular game. Here's what he had to say...(cut to tape) Richard: Well fellas, I gotta tell you that I had a king-sized headache trying to put together a game plan because our mascot, the Black Crow, was flapping around in my office and all I could hear was the beat of black wings! I had to tell the guy "I sure would like to see you sometime in a dark alley of some off night backstreet, I'll give you a piece of my mind", but changed my mind and after some conversation he left me alone. Why couldn't I have a quieter mascot, like a bird that whistles or something? Hey, no apologies from me, you know? Don: I think I understand where Coach Willy is coming from, and it's certainly going to be dog eat dog out there on the floor as the Coyotes attempt taming the tiger-like offense of the visiting Coyotes. And how about this Joni Mitchell, Larry? What a story that is! Larry: Boy, I'll say Don...just a month ago she was only a fan, a mere blonde in the bleachers, when she was recruited to replace the starting center who had twisted an ankle. Almost instantly she seemed to have the urge for going straight to the basket, and her wide repertoire of shots soon had her teammates calling her "Dr. Junk". She has proven herself to be a real woman of heart. And mind you, she's no slouch in the assist department either. When she's double-teamed & in trouble, child let me tell you she can find the open man. Even my old man, who as you know is a hall of famer, would look like a dancin' clown trying to stop her as she leads her team to number one in the division. Call me an impossible dreamer, but this ladies' man thinks you're living in dreamland if you think anyone can stop this lucky girl & her teammates. Talk to me, Don... Don: I agree all the way. She knows how to hit the court and spark this California offense. I mean, it's pure electricity when she's out there, and it's a case of you can't catch her once she decides to fast break. All I want is for the gallery here in the stands to appreciate how she goes for the roses every time she handles the ball. I almost wish I had a chair in the sky to watch her play - that would be cool! I mean when she's on the floor, she's the only joy in town. Larry? Larry: Well Don, I'm sorry to say that we've had so much pre-game that we missed the game! You've gone way over the borderline with your adoration of Joni Mitchell, just like me. Oh well, cry me a river. Don, as always I enjoy the arrangement of broadcasting these games with you, and stay in touch. Don: Hey, me too Larry, I wouldn't trade the experience for love or money...and as always, my best to you, and enjoy your night ride home! - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:10:16 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Joni's Basketball Game At 11/26/2003 11:30 AM, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: >See how many Joni song titles you can find! Happy Thanksgiving! This reminds me of a JMDL writing contest I wanted to have once where the only rule was to use as many of Joni's song titles as possible. I guess you win, Bob. Les ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:21:42 EST From: CoyoteRick@aol.com Subject: Re: Our Shooting Star's Missing Star Dear Correspondents: Re: Joni's Missing Star on Hollywood Boulevard David asked: I seem to remember Joni saying somewhere that people buy those stars -- do we know if this is true? Kakki replied: No, you have to be nominated and selected and reviewed by a number of groups, but the person or group nominating you have to pay for the installation and maintenance, ceremony costs, etc., and I think a portion also goes to the Hollywood Historic Trust. Now me: Sorry for the delay in responding. A few quick facts. The first star was placed in 1960 (Joanne Woodward). It's now a cultural historic monument as designated by the City of Los Angeles. Kakki is right -- both about the nomination process and that there is a SIGNIFICANT cost in having your star on the Boulevard. I was once on the Board of the Hollywood Chamber of Commerce (representing my employer) and recall it was something like $15K in costs for manufacturing, placing on the PUBLIC street (costs cannot be paid by taxpayers), the Ceremony, and this-n-that. The "Stars" are managed by the CofC through a non-profit trust called Hollywood Historic Trust (a pass-through trust). It's actually not a money-maker for anyone, nor does Hollywood Heritage (the architectural preservation group, with which I am involved and to which Kakki referred) receive proceeds. The only revenues are for the shop owners from the continuing tourist revenues -- and the tourists love those silly stars. It amazes me when something happens to a "star" that people (locals and tourists alike) make a pilgrimage to that person's "star" to place wreaths or flowers. So, the "stars" do take on a memorial status for the individual. Note recent pictures of Jacko's star being "flowered" as a show of support. Re: Joni and absence of her star. I very well remember at he dedication in Toronto of her star there, she remarked it was a particular honor since it was free. With disdain, she mentioned you had to pay for your star in Hollywood, which she thought was somehow "unethical." I believe that was the word she used, but, maybe Ashara has this on tape? She probably didn't consider the LA "stars" are part of a public monument and someone has to pay -- not the citizens of LA. So, it wouldn't be me that suggests this idea be pursued to Ms. Mitchell. She has definite feelings to the contrary. Many of these are done without fanfare and some even after the recipient has passed away. Many times fans or families of "stars" often apply (willing to pay costs) and are accepted or rejected based upon their stature in the business. It's fairly subjective, but, is subject to the approval of a somewhat large committee of entertainment professionals' approval. They meet once a year and select 20 people from the large base of nominations. There are some heartwarming stories of fans donating dollars for "stars" who have fallen on hard times. My guess is Joni would be a shoe-in if she, her family, or fan base asked. The star or the star's estate must be willing to cooperate. So, to be clear, absence is not an editorial on her position or her accomplishments. There is no foundation or trust giving dollars for placements. It's a tourist venue and someone has to pay. I'm just glad it's not us citizens, right, Kakki! No regrets, Coyote Rick Casa Alegre Hollywood, California "Only fools are afraid to be burned by fire..." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:35:53 -0600 From: "Steve Polifka" Subject: Re: Joni's Basketball Game You have waaaaaaay too much time on your hands or your mind on Joni... DR. Steve Freud on Joni Mitchell fetishes... - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 12:30 PM Subject: Joni's Basketball Game > See how many Joni song titles you can find! Happy Thanksgiving! > > Larry: Good morning Morgantown, and welcome to today's contest on this > sunny Sunday between The California Sweet Birds & The Woodstock Coyotes. > And helping me with today's broadcast, here's Don Carey... > > Don: Thanks Larry, and I know that even though we may be interrupting > people's parties over the holidays, I hope they'll take time to watch this > game, after all it's for free if you're watching from home! I don't know > where I stand in sizing these two teams up...help me separate the shadows > and light here, willya Larry? > > Larry: I'll give it a try Don, but as you know I'm a bit of a strange boy > and comparing these two young squads is like deciphering a menu in a > Chinese cafe. The Sweet Birds, as you know, just signed a man from Mars who > only plays defense, and the coach is trying to teach him to play both > sides. Now, if he's not able to do that, the Coyotes will have a banquet on > the offensive boards. How do you stop them on those 5-on-4 breaks? Down to > you, Don. > > Don: Right you are, Larry. If they can't turn around that same situation, > then nothing can be done to prevent Woodstock from winning this game and > making the Birds' coach a blue boy. As you know, their coach Richard Willy, > used to be the priest in his local parish, and the last time I saw Richard > we talked about his chances in this particular game. Here's what he had to > say...(cut to tape) > > Richard: Well fellas, I gotta tell you that I had a king-sized headache > trying to put together a game plan because our mascot, the Black Crow, was > flapping around in my office and all I could hear was the beat of black > wings! I had to tell the guy "I sure would like to see you sometime in a > dark alley of some off night backstreet, I'll give you a piece of my mind", > but changed my mind and after some conversation he left me alone. Why > couldn't I have a quieter mascot, like a bird that whistles or something? > Hey, no apologies from me, you know? > > Don: I think I understand where Coach Willy is coming from, and it's > certainly going to be dog eat dog out there on the floor as the Coyotes > attempt taming the tiger-like offense of the visiting Coyotes. And how > about this Joni Mitchell, Larry? What a story that is! > > Larry: Boy, I'll say Don...just a month ago she was only a fan, a mere > blonde in the bleachers, when she was recruited to replace the starting > center who had twisted an ankle. Almost instantly she seemed to have the > urge for going straight to the basket, and her wide repertoire of shots > soon had her teammates calling her "Dr. Junk". She has proven herself to be > a real woman of heart. And mind you, she's no slouch in the assist > department either. When she's double-teamed & in trouble, child let me tell > you she can find the open man. Even my old man, who as you know is a hall > of famer, would look like a dancin' clown trying to stop her as she leads > her team to number one in the division. Call me an impossible dreamer, but > this ladies' man thinks you're living in dreamland if you think anyone can > stop this lucky girl & her teammates. Talk to me, Don... > > Don: I agree all the way. She knows how to hit the court and spark this > California offense. I mean, it's pure electricity when she's out there, and > it's a case of you can't catch her once she decides to fast break. All I > want is for the gallery here in the stands to appreciate how she goes for > the roses every time she handles the ball. I almost wish I had a chair in > the sky to watch her play - that would be cool! I mean when she's on the > floor, she's the only joy in town. Larry? > > Larry: Well Don, I'm sorry to say that we've had so much pre-game that we > missed the game! You've gone way over the borderline with your adoration of > Joni Mitchell, just like me. Oh well, cry me a river. Don, as always I > enjoy the arrangement of broadcasting these games with you, and stay in > touch. > > Don: Hey, me too Larry, I wouldn't trade the experience for love or > money...and as always, my best to you, and enjoy your night ride home! > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------------------------- > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential > and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient > of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, > retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any > action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you > received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the > material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message > are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect > the views of the company. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:40:04 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Our Shooting Star's Missing Star Hi Rick, I knew you'd have more background on this - thanks! Yes, the current cost for a star is $15, 000. You wrote: > Re: Joni and absence of her star. I very well remember at he dedication in > Toronto of her star there, she remarked it was a particular honor since it was > free. With disdain, she mentioned you had to pay for your star in Hollywood, > which she thought was somehow "unethical." From the remarks you and others have recalled from Toronto, I definitely get the impression that Joni doesn't have the whole story on it all. I mean, gee, someone/some group in Toronto had to pay for the star there - they don't just materialize like magic from the art gods ;-) And I personally would not want stars in Hollywood decided totally and arbitrarily by some government agency and paid for with taxpayers' money, either. I think if the process could be properly presented and explained to Joni, she might reconsider her views. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:01:37 EST From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Joni's #30 Today in the Rolling Stone "Blue" is number 30 in the 500 Greatest Albums. With that I wish you all a "Happy Thanksgivig". Thinking how we lured those Native Americans to the table-"Judas in the end" Peace Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:26:10 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni's Basketball Game --- Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > See how many Joni song titles you can find! Happy > Thanksgiving! > > Larry: Good morning Morgantown, and welcome to > today's contest on this > sunny Sunday between The California Sweet Birds & > The Woodstock Coyotes. - ------------------------------- Muller, that was feckin' brilliant! I was going to ask if there WAS a prize, but man, you should be GETTING a prize (of some kind). Way to go! ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:25:54 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Snapshot of our Desert Island Joni (Most/Least) Cool idea, Michael. You said, "+ Songs marked by a plus sign do not appear on either Hits or Misses." Now, Lama: I think the song selection and packaging of 'hits' and 'mis s es' are the two most destructive decisions she ever made in her long career. If you read the stories on 'mis s es', many of them are bitter or angry without the insight of her sharpest writing. I know not every one likes "Dry Cleaner", "Don't Interrupt the Sorrow", and "Harlem In Havana" as much as I do, but how could Reprise let her put out 'hits' and 'mis s es' without "Converstation", "Cold Blue Steel", "Amelia" and "The Last Time I Saw Richard"? To borrow a phrase I picked up on Parsonage Lane, "What were they thinking?!" Too bad she didn't do even a trace of marketing first. There are some cool tracks on 'mis s es' of course but I'd take out these 6 (of the 14) to make room for some of the JMDL favorites marked with "+"... Passion Play - Nothing Can Be Done - The Beat of Black Wings - Impossible Dreamer - Sex Kills (especially) -- The Recurring Dream - Here is your list of JMDL favorites not on 'hits' nor on 'mis s es': ============================= Cactus Tree + Conversation * + The Last Time I Saw Richard + Cold Blue Steel & Sweet Fire + Same Situation * + Down To You + Don't Interrupt The Sorrow + Amelia + Refuge Of The Roads + Song For Sharon + Don Juan's Reckless Daughter * + The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines * + Moon At The Window * + The Three Great Stimulants * + Ethiopia * + My Secret Place * + Two Grey Rooms * + The Sire Of Sorrow (Job's Sad Song) + Harlem In Havana * + Man From Mars * + Comes Love * + A Case Of You (BSN) * + ============================= All the best, Lama ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:29:40 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Our Shooting Star's Missing Star --- CoyoteRick@aol.com wrote: > Dear Correspondents: > > Re: Joni's Missing Star on Hollywood Boulevard > ... > Re: Joni and absence of her star. I very well > remember at he dedication in > Toronto of her star there, she remarked it was a > particular honor since it was > free. With disdain, she mentioned you had to pay for > your star in Hollywood, > which she thought was somehow "unethical." Well, of course, nothing is really free, but I imagine her Toronto star was paid for by donations and/or tax dollars, likely the latter, and I don't begrudge the few of my cents that paid for that either. (You can take the Canadian out of Canada, but you can't take the Canada out of the Canadian, eh?) ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:37:15 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Snapshot of our Desert Island Joni (Most/Least) --- "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: > Now, Lama: I think the song selection and packaging > of 'hits' and 'mis s > es' are the two most destructive decisions she ever > made in her long career. ... > > Too bad she didn't do even a trace of marketing > first. Here's my 2-cents on that. I think Joni did it deliberately, to be ornery, and to expose people to a wider variety of her songs than they might have heard on a market-researched/focus-grouped version that the suits approved. I think she also did it to piss off the suits. Whether or not it was a mistake probably doesn't matter. She has since done Travelogue and BSN and the Geffen thingummy and I bet no one's making a lot of cash off those. You've got to hand it to our Joan - she has chutzpah and she's not afraid to use it. She stuck it to the man like so many of us would like to do. I say, you go, grrrrlll! ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:53:58 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Basketball Game "This reminds me of a JMDL writing contest I wanted to have once where the only rule was to use as many of Joni's song titles as possible." Well, if you ever have it, this will be my submittal! I'll add that it was inspired by Wally's question asking about the Joni basketball article. Wally, I hope some of your wishes come true, and I know how you feel. Sometimes I feel like my bestest friends, the only people willing to listen to me, are right here. Bob NP: The Beatles, "Get Back" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 21:49:33 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni's Basketball Game --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > "This reminds me of a JMDL writing contest I wanted > to have once where the > only rule was to use as many of Joni's song titles > as possible." > > Well, if you ever have it, this will be my > submittal! I'll add that it was > inspired by Wally's question asking about the Joni > basketball article. Wally, I > hope some of your wishes come true, and I know how > you feel. Sometimes I feel > like my bestest friends, the only people willing to > listen to me, are right > here. Submittal? Hmmm. What I really love is how one apparently innocuous suggestion or comment made by another lister is one that inspires another to write a work of that kind. You don't see that just anywhere. One more reason why this such a special place to be. The only problem, Muller, is that you did such a great job, I'm not sure if any of the rest of us mere mortals could come close to it. (But there's other Bob, sometimes known as Troy, who is either going to try or is going to come back with such a witty retort that some of us will get bellyaches from laughing so hard.) ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:05:36 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Blue- #30 top album all time A very respectable placement I think! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:20:33 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Blue- #30 top album all time > It's also the highest ranking LP of any female... See! They're a bunch of male chauvinist pigs and that Jann Wenner deserves to be castrated! Petunia (not much into lists) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:35:16 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Our Shooting Star's Missing Star Catherine, the Canadian wrote: > Well, of course, nothing is really free, but I imagine > her Toronto star was paid for by donations and/or tax > dollars, likely the latter, and I don't begrudge the > few of my cents that paid for that either. (You can > take the Canadian out of Canada, but you can't take > the Canada out of the Canadian, eh?) I don't really care who paid for it - isn't it the thought that counts? Why would Joni think getting a star from tax dollars is "free" and somehow more "pure" and a star paid for from an independent group or individual is "unethical?" That's what seems weird to me. I would think a "people's choice" award would be just as meanginful, if not more so, that something some government committee decreed. But maybe I'm missing her point - maybe she thinks she herself would have to pay for a star in Hollywood and doesn't grasp the idea that individual peoples (sic) could raise up the money in her honor and that could be just as valid. Then again you all know I don't understand the culture of socialism LOL Hell with it. ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:09:27 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Our Shooting Star's Missing Star --- kakki wrote: > > I don't really care who paid for it - isn't it the > thought that counts? Why > would Joni think getting a star from tax dollars is > "free" and somehow more > "pure" and a star paid for from an independent group > or individual is > "unethical?" That's what seems weird to me. I > would think a "people's > choice" award would be just as meanginful, if not > more so, that something > some government committee decreed. But maybe I'm > missing her point - maybe > she thinks she herself would have to pay for a star > in Hollywood and doesn't > grasp the idea that individual peoples (sic) could > raise up the money in her > honor and that could be just as valid. Then again > you all know I don't > understand the culture of socialism LOL Hell with > it. ;-) I think Joni's a dog in the manger. Or she's bitching about sour grapes. Or some other cliche of that kind. I think she's bitching that she might have to pay for it herself. Or maybe she really does believe these things grow on trees and just magically appear without anyone having to pay for them (the star fairy drops them down from heaven or something). Of course someone would have to pay. Or maybe her point is that anyone with enough cash could buy one even if they had no talent. I'm sure she wouldn't begrudge it if a group of admiring fans (ahem) raised the money to get one of these things for her. Which is all really silly because it's a friggin' thing on a sidewalk that people walk on and spit on and spill stuff on, so how is that an honour anyway - LOL! but jeez, Mom, all the kids have one! I think Joni just likes bitching for bitching's sake. I can totally understand that. Whining and bitching is something I do very well myself and it can be lots of fun if done with wit. From my socialist perspective, corporate money tends to be viewed as tainted and always driven by the bottom line over anything else. It's kind of like Macdonald's getting the franchise in the school cafeteria - or worse yet, the hospital food court. So you eat this high-fat, cholesterol-laden stuff in the hospital while a few floors above you the cardiac patients are lying in the ICU. It just isn't right, y'know? Macdonald's should be across the street, not right in yer face when you're visiting Auntie Sadie in the cardiac ward. (Later we'll sneak outside for a cigarette or two.) It's probably not possible to explain that to a ragin' capitalist such as yourself (hee hee) but the socialist view is that the corporations are always out to make the most bucks they can and will cut corners and quality in order to maximize profits for their shareholders (and mainly themselves) even at the risk of jeopardizing the safety of their workers and/or consumers. Whether it's true or not, I don't know. I'm sure it is in some cases but not in others, but that is a socialist perspective on that whole thing - that certain things (child care, hospitals, any of the social benefits) should be free of the taint (perceived or otherwise) of the corporate bottom line. To some, the arts are included in this list. And yet, ironically, the arts are the first to be cut when governments seek to practice restraint; and then again, art is so subjective that people laugh and complain at some of the "shit" that gets grant money - there again, one person's shit may be another's art (sometimes literally, LOL.) I'm not sure if any of that thinking lies behind Joni's skepticism (maybe we're imputing to her thoughts she neve actually expressed and the whole thing is academic anyway). It could be simply that if one rich powerful individual pays for something and gives it to you, you become beholden to that individual, so it's kind of like selling your soul to the devil. Or maybe it's just the old paradox - the masses have no culture and no taste and that's why they never give *me* a people's choice award. If they do give me a people's choice award, maybe it's because I've sunk to the level of having no culture and taste myself, so now I'm a pop star and that sucks too. Awards suck... until I win one. Who knows? I think Joni likes to think out loud a lot and she just gets in trouble. The rest of us think stuff like that but we don't get quoted in the media. Let's hold a bunch of bake sales and raise $15,000 and buy her the frikkin' star and see what she has to say about that (LOL.) ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 21:44:55 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Our Shooting Star's Missing Star Catherine, I tend to agree with your take on Joni. I get the sense she feels that a Hollywood star should be decreed and paid for from some pure, select, ethereal committee of the highest degree. It may be literally too pedestrian, and therefore, beneath her, to appreciate a star that some ragtag group of fans (or industry publicity hacks) would gather up the cash to place on the sidewalk. I also sense that if the great unwashed did succeed in getting a star for her, ironically, she would probably graciously accept it. Forget about the spit and the gum and grease - it is a monument here, silly as that seems. Silly can also be cool and fun and the stars do have some meaning for many people - they are a small physical touchstone and a terrazzo marble piece of tribute in a town that was largely built on the entertainment industry. > From my socialist perspective, corporate money tends > to be viewed as tainted and always driven by the > bottom line over anything else. That's what I don't buy. Corporate money gives people jobs to make a living and most, if not all, corporations pay out much money every year to many good causes (whether they are purely motivated or not, they get a nice tax benefit in doing so and the end result is beneficial.) >It's kind of like Macdonald's getting the franchise in the school > cafeteria - Boy, not here - they are actually outlawing any food that may be "unhealthful" in most school cafeterias - taking out the soda and candy machines, etc. > It just isn't right, y'know? Macdonald's should be across the street, not > right in yer face when you're visiting Auntie Sadie in > the cardiac ward. (Later we'll sneak outside for a > cigarette or two.) People should be able to make their own choices - it shouldn't be an issue of "evil" McDonald's made me do it and I don't know any better and it's McDonald's fault I'm obese and have health problems. All the schools I've attended teach proper nutrition and health. A Mac now and then is probably good for you ;-) If you eat it or any one food everyday, that's not good. Common sense. > It's probably not possible to explain that to a ragin' > capitalist such as yourself (hee hee) Capitalism has been the natural default system of the human race since the beginning of mankind. There must be a reason for that. I just ragingly believe in individual freedom and feel that having a central goverment decide for me and telling me what I should do with my life in every minute aspect is NOT freedom. > To some, the arts are included in this list. And yet, > ironically, the arts are the first to be cut when > governments seek to practice restraint; and then > again, art is so subjective that people laugh and > complain at some of the "shit" that gets grant money - > there again, one person's shit may be another's art > (sometimes literally, LOL.) I'm not opposed to the government providing grants for the arts - I just don't think they should be the sole arbiter and patron of the arts. Art should not be the exclusive province of elitists, government-appointed or otherwise. I know many disagree with that, but I think creativity is individual and a gift from God, or whatever mystical phenomena one wants to attribute it to. Once any official group controls the arts, it no longer is pure, and is tainted to some degree. I have to admit I think Joni may be a bit elitist in her view toward a Hollywood star. But I can also understand her reaction to some extent. No matter what, though, there is a void that she is not there among many true greats. If nothing else, she has made L.A. her adopted hometown for so many years and she must have some attachment to it. Can someone persuade her that it's OK to be included in the walk? We shall see! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:08:02 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: November 27 1974: The album "Miles Of Aisles" was certified gold by the RIAA. 1975: Joni, as part of the Rolling Thunder Revue with Dylan and others, performed today at the Municipal Auditorium in Bangor, Maine. 1985: The video for the first single "Good Friends" premiered on MTV. - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:08:02 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: November 27 On November 27 the following articles were published: 1976: "Joni: Summer Lawns, Grey Gardens" - Melody Maker (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=186 1976: "The tip of the iceberg" - Sounds (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=354 1982: "Songs For Ageing Children" - New Musical Express (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=210 1982: "Wild Things Run Fast" - Melody Maker (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=190 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 07:47:52 -0000 From: "TheWizardOfIs" Subject: JoniFest 2004 Have any thoughts been given to a date or venue for next year's get-together? Might try and come along. Be afraid, Jonipeople, be very afraid. AMO ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:59:49 -0800 From: rholliston@HighSpeedPlus.com Subject: Thank you Les! Thank you Les for alerting us to the wealth of resource and information available on JMDL.com. I read today's material with awe as well as interest. I'm the first to admit that my finger is anywhere but on the pulse of current popular music, but I can't help asking how many of today's artists would inspire the kind of sober, thoughtful critical rapture that Hejira got from Tim Lott (Sounds, Nov. 27/1976): Timeless and majestic, this is music for the spirit Intellectual and inspired, this is music for the mind Rhythmic and subtle, this is music for the body The music of tomorrow, this is the tip of the iceberg Don't hear this album. Listen to it. It took a really perceptive critic to recognize (in 1976!) that Hejira contained music for the body! Cheers and love, Roberto ps. especially love to Wally (you're not alone, chum) and Colin (I've been dealing with some serious health issues this last year, and sometimes doctors are right, naff gits though they not infrequently are.) My loving thoughts and biggest hugs to you both...... ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #370 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)