From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #362 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, November 20 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 362 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: TRAVELOGUE: better than nothing? ["Ross, Les" ] Re: Today's Library Links: November 19 [Catherine McKay ] very lucky. ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Today's Library Links: November 19 [=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= ] Re: Re: Overdubbing, and Ignorance v Naivete [] Re: Overdubbing, and Ignorance v Naivete [Michael Paz ] Re: correspondence with richardson's roundup [Rick ] My Top T-loggers [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Favs and least favs [Justalittlebreen@aol.com] Re: TRAVELOGUE: better than nothing? ["J.David Sapp" ] stars ["Kate Bennett" ] Statue project ["Kate Bennett" ] Warner future [BRYAN8847@aol.com] re: Miles Of Aisles ["J. Gonzales" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #572 [HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com] joni doesn't have a star? [HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com] Re: TRAVELOGUE: better than nothing? LONG & RAMBLING [Bob.Muller@Fluor.co] Re: Miles Of Aisles ["kakki" ] Re: 40 watt successes [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Re: TRAVELOGUE: better than nothing? LONG & RAMBLING ["J.David Sapp" ] joni and the music scene ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: joni's star SJC [HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com] Re: My Top T-loggers [Bobsart48@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:38:10 -0000 From: "Ross, Les" Subject: Re: TRAVELOGUE: better than nothing? Bob wrote >I listened again Sunday to the 2 Joni vocal tracks on Herbie's "Gershwin's >World" cd, and they are SO strong, if only Joni had taken that lead with >her interpretations of her own songs it would have been a stellar >recording. I agree with this and with the summation that came before it in his post. Though not wild about the songs covered on herbie's compilation, her work nevertheless, was splendid. Someone earlier wrote too, that T'log was best listened to in 'couple-of-song' lumps to be best enjoyed. I think, for me, that's the way forward in 'getting' this work. Otherwise I'm still struggling with the god-awful arrangements. The are so cumbersome in some of these versions. Where BSN worked better that T'log is in this particular respect. It allowed Joni's voice more space to do it's magic and I think she did make magic on BSN. I wont try to suggest her vocal instrument is at its best, it still gives me chills of the favoured kind when given the right setting. Les (London) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:02:35 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Today's Library Links: November 19 --- ljirvin@jmdl.com wrote: > On November 19 the following articles were > published: > 2002: "Joni Mitchell says her songs aren't > 'disposable,' new meaning on latest album" - > Canadian Press > (Interview) > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1017 This article is very timely. It deals with the "what is art?" question, Travelogue, today's artists, the cesspool that is today's music industry, being true to yourself and a few other things. Here are a few snippets below, but does anyone know anything about this "Circle Game" video mentioned near the end? - ---------------------------------------------------- Joni Mitchell says her songs aren't 'disposable,' new meaning on latest album by Angela Pacienza Canadian Press November 19, 2002 TORONTO (CP) - When veteran singer-songwriter Joni Mitchell had to produce another album to fulfil a recording contract she didn't force out new material because she thought the old songs still had something to say. And she wasn't about to compromise her ideals or be pushed around by music executives looking to make a few bucks, she said while visiting Toronto this week. "I don't want songs to be disposable. Instead of being swayed to demographic and marketing procedures, it has to mean something. We've got to change that (in the industry)." ... She says musicians nowadays write for marketers, not themselves or fans. "Music is too calculated now," she said, her famous blond locks neatly trimmed to shoulder length. "It's good for aerobics, but it isn't moving." ... "The artist's job is to sit on the sidelines. We're supposed to be outcasts. An artist is not a politician. We have to be non-partisan, skeptical." But the veteran singer-songwriter says she's not prepared to write for the sake of writing and doesn't have to because Travelogue fulfilled her recording contract. "In order to write again there's going to have to be a real shift in me. Where that will come from, I don't know," said Mitchell, adding that she's still painting so "the creative juices are there." ... Two documentaries chronicling her life are slated for release next year. The first, Circle Game, is a behind-the-scenes look at the making of Travelogue, which includes the story of the master tapes nearly being destroyed in a studio fire. It's been submitted for next year's Sundance Film Festival. The second is a PBS documentary tentatively scheduled for release next May. It contains rare footage of Mitchell's earliest performances in 1966, audio recordings of never released material, her acting debut and home movies taken by her daughter Gibb, Mitchell's only child who she gave up for adoption and reunited with several years ago. Carrying a camcorder, Gibb, who strongly resembles Mitchell, video-taped Monday night's ceremony as she does at "all these things." "I don't mind. I do it for her," she said, wearing a matching Miyake dress. "I film award shows, walks, us playing Crazy 8s." ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:04:13 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Overdubbing, and Ignorance v Naivete Jim expanded Hi Bob, "I wasn't slamming you for naviete. It's just my coarse humor, okay?" I know you weren't, Jim. And I wouldn't rib you about that modern spell-check technology, either :-) Best always, Bobsart PS - remember to be a nice boy for the next month or so, Jim. Santa's makin' a list, and checkin' it twice, you know .......;-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:09:11 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Overdubbing, and Ignorance v Naivete Jim replied about CSN and Woodstock "Bad cassettes. Very bad cassettes. It wasn't "shot" with a budget on 35mm like a movie either. They just had people running around, documentary style, with 16mm cameras. I didn't make that up, about CSN. They actually used film of a different CSN concert and pasted it into the Woodstock movie. They weren't happy with their performance." Jim, that still does not directly address my question about why they were not able technologically to overdub something into the footage, rather than take footage from a different concert. I can imagine some of the obstacles, but can you advise as to a most likely reason ? Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:16:57 +0100 From: "Paul Mepschen" Subject: another documentary???? One of the articles in Today's Library Links talks about two documentaries WOHAM and another one": "Circle Game, is a behind-the-scenes look at the making of Travelogue, which includes the story of the master tapes nearly being destroyed in a studio fire. It's been submitted for next year's Sundance Film Festival." Does anyone know more about this? Thanks -- Paul of the Netherlands - ------------------------------------------- we will push on into that mystery, and it will push right back, and there are worse things than that -- dar williams: after all --- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:23:58 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: very lucky. I alluded to the friend that I work with, yesterday, that I told about Joni and recommended she try our Joan. The woman has been having problems with her marriage, husband, children, life in general. I had told her that she needed to get inside herself and find out exactly what she wanted and go from there. I told her Joni would help her along the way. She has a crush on me, despite knowing I play for the pink team, and lo, and behold, she showed up at the workplace last eve with 6 joni albums. Two were TTT and WTRF. I have neither so I brought them home to put them onto the computer. Looking forward to trying them out in a few minutes. Even though I see they rank low on the JMDL scale I am thinking positive for so did DED and it knocked my socks off. She also had Blue and I recommended she absorb it first. Four of the albums were in a nice little set with liner notes including DED, CMIAR, WTRF, and NRH. Is that right? The last one I am not sure about. Very lucky anyway and felt like sharing it. mack ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:13:51 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: Re: Today's Library Links: November 19 It's the Allison Anders film which I don't think even got a look in at this year's Sundance for whatever reason... It was meant to chronicle the making of Travelogue and illustrate the relationship between Joni and Kilauren etc etc. Not sure where it's at in terms of being finished, approval, rights, distribution... But the end of WOHAM has a little clip of her singing in a vocal booth which I suspect was from this film... Much Joni Jamie Zoob x - --- Catherine McKay wrote: > - --- ljirvin@jmdl.com wrote: > On November 19 the > following articles were > > published: > > 2002: "Joni Mitchell says her songs aren't > > 'disposable,' new meaning on latest album" - > > Canadian Press > > (Interview) > > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1017 > > This article is very timely. It deals with the "what > is art?" question, Travelogue, today's artists, the > cesspool that is today's music industry, being true > to > yourself and a few other things. Here are a few > snippets below, but does anyone know anything about > this "Circle Game" video mentioned near the end? ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 9:34:25 -0500 From: Subject: Re: Re: Overdubbing, and Ignorance v Naivete Movie people overdubbed sound during post-production for major movies. Since they had no budget for cameras, or sound, maybe they had no budget for post-production either? I dunno. Maybe it was cheaper to just drop in another day entirely? > From: Bobsart48@aol.com > Date: 2003/11/19 Wed AM 08:09:11 EST > To: jlamadoo@fuse.net, joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Overdubbing, and Ignorance v Naivete > > Jim replied about CSN and Woodstock > "Bad cassettes. Very bad > cassettes. It wasn't "shot" with a budget on 35mm like a movie either. > They just had people running around, documentary style, with 16mm cameras. > > I didn't make that up, about CSN. They actually used film of a different > CSN concert and pasted it into the Woodstock movie. They weren't happy with > their performance." > > Jim, that still does not directly address my question about why they were not > able technologically to overdub something into the footage, rather than take > footage from a different concert. I can imagine some of the obstacles, but can > you advise as to a most likely reason ? > > Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:47:21 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Overdubbing, and Ignorance v Naivete You stand corrected oh master of promotion. http://www.louisianajukebox.com/avwebcast.htm We are now in the 21st century with archived shows where you can see all kinds of folks like Beth Patterson and Kalafka and Jack Neilson, Judith and a few other friends of mine. Best Paz > Hi Bob, > > I wasn't slamming you for naviete. It's just my coarse humor, okay? > > In the old days, Chuck Berry plugged into an amp, the drummer was > unamplified, and the bassist had an amp. There were no boards in the early > days. I love that sound, everyone plugged into their own amp. It's much > richer than squeezing everyone onto tape. Just a recording of an electric > guitar, one instrument, looses a lot when you squeeze it through extra > electronics, onto a recording medium, then back out through extra > electronics during playback. There are better ways to record music (to me) > than to plug everyone into a board but they're less convenient. > > I think by the time Woodstock happened, they had a board. Like today, they > ran long cords up to remote speakers. I recall that the only "soundtrack" > the movie's producers had was cassettes. Bad cassettes. Very bad > cassettes. It wasn't "shot" with a budget on 35mm like a movie either. > They just had people running around, documentary style, with 16mm cameras. > > I didn't make that up, about CSN. They actually used film of a different > CSN concert and pasted it into the Woodstock movie. They weren't happy with > their performance. > > About Carly, yeah, I bought it on VHS for $20. She looks great and Martha's > Vineyard looks great but the sound is way, way too good for the conditions. > I guess each project takes on a life of its own, depending on what the > problems are. I'm not slamming Carly Simon either. The team got a very > professional video out of it. > > On the other hand, "Tori Amos in New York" is very natural. There's music > and then there's video. I really liked seeing Beth Patterson's performance > on "Louisanna Jukebox" (a music tv show in New Orleans) but hers are not > available on the web anymore. > > All the best, > Lama ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:18:00 -0500 From: "Jim Leonard" Subject: Re: Overdubbing, and Ignorance v Naivete Lama said: > I didn't make that up, about CSN. They actually used film of a different CSN concert and pasted it into the Woodstock movie. They weren't happy with their performance. > I think you're wrong, Jim. CSNY played Woodstock at night, after the sun went down. Stills wore that Peruvian poncho. It was only their second public performance. (Neil had already joined by the time they did their first concert, just a few days before Woodstock). I've never heard it said on the Lee Shore list (CSN(Y)-related) or the Rust list (Neil Young related) that the "Woodstock" footage of CSNY is from another show. (I can't remember them playing outdoors before another vast sea of people, at night, before the film was released the following year, either.) What I do know is that Neil would not allow himself to be filmed, so does not appear on-screen, and therefore, none of his songs appear in the film. "Sea Of Madness," a song of Neil's, DOES appear on the "Woodstock" soundtrack album, however. Although the song WAS performed at Woodstock, Neil pressed to have a different version, recorded at the Fillmore East, on the album. It is indeed the Fillmore East version which appears, making that the only "substitution," to the best of my knowledge. You may have heard about this Neil-substitution at one time and that has confused you. Watch the movie again. I just can't see as how the footage could have been taken from another show. "We're scared shitless, man." No vocal sweetening was done, either. "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes" proves that. :-) Best, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:48:26 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: very lucky. Mack, I'm very anxious to hear your thoughts on WTRF...even though I know a lot of what you like (Hall & Oates, Melissa Manchester, Gino, Candi Staton, DED) your tastes are a bit tough for me to get a bead on. Still, I think (and hope) that you're really going to dig WTRF a lot!. Also, congrats to you on recommending Joni to help your co-worker navigate her tribulations. My sisters & kids are leaving this Friday for Disney World and since I've been talking to them about Joni all along I made them a Joni travel-pack compilation where I picked one song for each of them, and added 6 "Joni travel songs" to make an even dozen tunes. Bob NP: Joni, "Amelia" (T-log) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:12:27 +0100 From: "Paul Mepschen" Subject: joni and the music scene I was happy to read that Joni's actually NOT quit -- uptill now I thought that Joni's talk about quitting the scene was real, and that there was nothing new to expect -- now my hopes for one more album of new and self-penned work are up again -- perhaps even a little European tour.....: - ) anyways, I think Joni's critique of the musicbiz is correct -- compare top artists...stars...now and thirty years ago...look at this ani difranco quote: people used to make records as in a record of an event the event of people playing music in a room now everything is cross-marketing its about sunglasses and shoes or guns and drugs you choose (Ani Difranco: Fuel) The thing is -- Joni's not alone in her critique. so many of contemporary artists choose to stay independent of major labels, because they argue the majors care less about music and more . Ani Difranco, who has her own label, is the best example, but there are many more artists...Lucinda Williams, whose songwriting is simply perfect, has been known to whip big business' ass now and then. Dar WIlliams remains indie and there is a whole singer-songwriter underground of not very famous, not very 'star-like' artists who nevertheless do what they wanne do and choose to hold on to their integrity.........not everything can be bought and sold. However, Joni once was part of the circle of stars.......many of her friends were worldfamous artist and she was too, they still are....... but no longer in the center of attention.. Joan Baez had little trouble with embracing the singer-songwriter "underground" ... Dar WIlliams in the mid-nineties, the altcountrystars and a songwriter like Josh Ritter now. Joni seems to have a much more difficult time -- it's not so weird though, it must be hard to see that the today's stars are intellectually and artistically so inferior -- I mean even dopy John Lennon had substance. Or am I romantizing the 'good old days' before I was born again........? Peace: Paul of the Netherlands - ------------------------------------------- we will push on into that mystery, and it will push right back, and there are worse things than that -- dar williams: after all --- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:50:33 -0800 From: Rick Subject: Re: correspondence with richardson's roundup Hi Kate, Good for you and Emil! I'm sure Joni remembers meeting you in Saskatoon. And any reminder that she gets about the List is a bonus. I love the fact that you were a part of Richardson's Roundup. In these times of cultural identities being manufactured by cynical and slick media, it's refreshing that a large part of the Canadian identity is still defined by CBC radio programmes like the Roundup, the Vinyl Cafi and Sounds Like Canada. All the best Rick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:34:45 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: My Top T-loggers Well Bob, sorry to say that I could not come up with 11 "good" tracks from T'log, but I would submit these as the ones that I think are the strongest: (Not in any order) 1. Be Cool 2. Refuge Of The Roads 3. The Dawntreader 4. Otis and Marlena 5. Amelia 6. You Dream Flat Tires (but still needs to swing harder than it does) 7. Slouching Towards Bethlehem - Has an "epic" quality to match its lyrical content that I think is effective 8. God Must Be A Boogie Man That's a total of about 44 minutes which is a CD's worth, but not one that I'm going to make any time soon because if I ever want to hear ANY of these songs I'll go to its original incarnation, with the possible exception of "Amelia" which really comes to life on S&L and kicks off that power trio of Amelia-Pat's Solo-Hejira. And it almost was 9 as I have an honourable mention: The Sire Of Sorrow (Job's Sad Song) - would have made the cut except for that chorus, makes my finger rush for the "next track" button because I just conjure up this mental image of Nora Desmond & her toga-clad choirboys. Otherwise I like the way the arrangement swells and calms to match the intensity of Joni's vocal and she almost got this one right. Bob NP: Joni, "Trouble Child" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:57:43 EST From: Justalittlebreen@aol.com Subject: Favs and least favs Hi, all, I'm finally finding the time to read some of the digests that have been piling up, and thought I'd put my 2 drachmas in: Pre-first-album: Favorite: Tough call, but i especially Like Gift of the Magi and Melody In Your Name Less Favorite: The Coke Commercial Song/Ballerina Valerie, i suppose -- silly tossoffs Song To A Seagull: Most Favorite - Marcie, Pirates of Penance (surprised so many don't like the latter) Less Favorite - Night in the City Clouds: Most Favorite - I Don't Know Where I Stand Less Favorite - didn't used to like Tin Angel, but I like it better now Ladies Of The Canyon: Most Favorite - Conversation Less Favorite - Circle Game Blue: Most Favorite - The Last Time I Saw Richard, River, Case Less Favorite - All I Want For The Roses: Most Favorite - Cold Blue Steel & Sweet Fire Less Favorite - You Turn Me On, I'm an I-Pod Court & Spark: Most Favorite - 9-way-tie: everything else Less Favorite - Free Man, and Raised Miles of Aisles: Most Favorite - Jericho!!! Less Favorite - none Hissing Of Summer Lawns: Most Favorite - Very tough call -- album is all but flawless. I love Jungle Line for its audacity (I'm working on a very different arrangement of it), and I like the Edith/Don't Interrupt/Shades of Scarlett Conquering run Less Favorite - Shadows and Light, I suppose -- a little overwrought Hejira: Most Favorite - Strange Boy, with an 8-way-tie for the others Least Favorite - none Don Juan's Reckless Daughter: Most Favorite - Overture--Cotton Ave, Offnight Backstreet, The Silky Veils of Ardor Least Favorite - 10th world Mingus (the 'raps' don't count): Most Favorite - The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey Less Favorite - Sweet Sucker Dance Shadows & Light: Most Favorite - Woodstock -- best of the four "official" versions of the song Less Favorite - Shadows and Light (again) Wild Things Run Fast: Most Favorite - Chinese Cafe, Moon at the Window, and Love Less Favorite - none Dog Eat Dog: Most Favorite - Ethiopia, Impossible Dreamer Less Favorite - Fiction Chalk Mark In A Rainstorm: Most Favorite - Dancin' Clown and Snakes and Ladders Less Favorite - Reoccurring Dream Night Ride Home: Most Favorite - Two Grey Rooms, Only Joy In Town Less Favorite - Slouching Toward zzzzzzzzzz (although Travelogue version at least keeps me awake) Turbulent Indigo: Most Favorite - Yvette In English, and The Sire of Sorrow Less Favorite - Borderline. Joni needs new friends, and she needs to stop harping -- it's her least attractive song mode. Taming The Tiger: Most Favorite - Facelift, Man From Mars, and the title song Least Favorite - Crazy Cries Both Sides Now: Most Favorite - You've Changed, And Case Less Favorite - none Travelogue - I tend to listen to all but the last two cuts (Borderline and Circle Game). That way I get to end the album with her delightfully warm and relaxed version of Richard. I also like her ratpackish delivery on Be Cool, and other favs are Trouble Child for the appropriately woozy sounding instrumentals and Just Like This Train, again for Joni's relaxed, mature, smiling ren dition. For the Roses is a little ponderous, but I still like it. Oh, speaking of Train, I assume everyone noticed that in the Travelogue version, she alternates the opening "duh-duh-duh-duh...DUH, duh-DUH, duh-DUH, duh-DUH" with "doo-WAH-doo's", as she did when she was performing it in '96 on the various shows to promote Hits and Misses. best to all, justalittlebreen walt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:36:57 -0600 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: Re: TRAVELOGUE: better than nothing? Yes they are stellar - but aren't you asking Joni to paint a starry night again? Joni is the restless innovator - in asking her to record Travelogue with a small jazz combo I think she has already been there, done that, from the Jaco stuff up to the '98 band. Also most of Joni's compositions don't lend themselves to the beautiful Gershwin like treatment. I was listening to "Gershwin's World" this weekend and as much as I love it I prefer Travelogue. I was listening as the critic and using Travelogue as a touchstone. "Gershwin's World" struck me as too pretty, undramatic, no restless edges, no unexpected turns and not as musically adventurous. Its way, way good but it sounds 'safe' to me. I mean you can't do justice to Sire of Sorrow by treating it like The Man I Love. peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:06:41 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Art for Art's sake >I think when you reach a point of your life you do start a process of reflecting back on you life and loves and you become very melancholy about things and they do run cinematic in your mind much like we remember an old movie right down to the musical score.< This is so true (most of us are younger than joni...but I rememeber how much priorites shifted for my mom as she aged) & so perfectly describes t'log... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:11:57 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: stars >And no, Joni does not have a star!< BS (ha!) has a star & joni has no star...criminy, the world is inside out... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:24:01 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Statue project >I gently suggest that it not be the woman who was in charge of the Beside Herself statue project, which appears to have fallen off the face of the earth without so much as an update.< I've been wondering about that project too...did anyone donate $$...? If so, I hope there has been some sort of update... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:36:14 -0500 From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Warner future Part of a story from today's LA Times....will affect the catalog eventually, no doubt Warner Music Group Tunes Up for Bidders Time Warner's board is moving toward a decision that could end its three-decade run as a dominant force in the recording industry. By Jeff Leeds, Times Staff Writer On the nation's pop charts, Time Warner Inc. turned in a command performance this year with hits from Linkin Park, Matchbox Twenty and Simple Plan. Behind the scenes, however, the entertainment and media giant is weighing a major retreat from the music business. When Time Warner's board meets Thursday, it is expected to take up two competing offers for pieces of Warner Music Group b and move closer toward a momentous decision that could end the company's three-decade run as a dominant force in the record business and accelerate the industry's move toward consolidation. Since September, Time Warner has been in formal, nonexclusive talks to sell its recorded-music division to EMI Group. The British music giant has offered Warner about $1 billion in cash and a 20% to 25% stake in the combined company. Warner also has been approached by former Seagram Co. Chief Executive Edgar Bronfman Jr. and kids' TV mogul Haim Saban, who have teamed with a number of private investors to offer an estimated $2.5 billion in cash for both Warner's recorded-music and music-publishing operations. That deal would take Warner out of the music industry completely. With the clock ticking before Thursday's board meeting, potential bidders have been angling for better positions. Sources said Tuesday that the Bronfman group recently had tried to sweeten its bid by offering Warner the chance to retain as much as 20% of the new entity. Bronfman b a songwriter who has written for such stars as Celine Dion b also has held talks with Hollywood power broker Jeff Kwatinetz and his management company, the Firm, about a potential role in the new Warner Music structure, according to people familiar with the matter. Sources say Bronfman, Kwatinetz and private equity firm Thomas H. Lee Partners have been meeting quietly for as long as six months. Representatives for Bronfman and Kwatinetz declined to comment. A handful of other investors b among them New York financier Nelson Peltz and billionaire George Soros b have expressed interest in the media giant's music division, sources say. But Time Warner executives have indicated that they remain focused on the offers from EMI and the Bronfman group. "They want to run these two horses," said one person familiar with the situation. On Thursday, Time Warner's board is expected to offer Chairman Richard D. Parsons and his management team its views on what to do with the music division. The board's input comes at a time when the music industry is grappling with a three-year-long sales slump. In a study released Tuesday, research firm Informa Media projected that global retail sales of recorded music would fall 8.9% this year, to $28.2 billion, amid continued unauthorized trading of music files on the Internet and widespread copying of CDs. Reacting to the unprecedented downturn, DreamWorks SKG recently agreed to sell its recorded-music business to industry leader Vivendi Universal for about $100 million. Sony Corp. and Bertelsmann are closing in on a deal to merge their music labels into a jointly owned venture to cut costs. For Warner, any move to scale back would mark a dramatic strategic shift. For much of the year, the company had been locked in exclusive talks with Bertelsmann about merging their recorded-music businesses, a deal that probably would have provided Time Warner with a 50% stake and a central management role in what would rank as the world's second-biggest record company. That deal collapsed over disputes about the value of each company's recordings and other assets. As a result, Warner has turned to offers that would effectively mean bowing out as a significant power in the business after a 36-year span that nurtured the careers of such acts as Joni Mitchell, Madonna, Prince, Jimi Hendrix and Led Zeppelin. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:03:36 -0800 From: "J. Gonzales" Subject: re: Miles Of Aisles Excuse my butting in... Miles Of Aisles was recorded at the Universal Ampitheatre. If memory serves correctly, this was back when it was an outdoor venue. I'm not absolutely sure of that last part, as I've only ever known of the venue as "covered." My parents saw Sinatra there sometime in the 70s. Anyone recall when they put the lid on it? _________________________________________________________________ Gift-shop online from the comfort of home at MSN Shopping! No crowds, free parking. http://shopping.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:31:25 EST From: HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #572 In a message dated 11/18/03 11:34:31 PM EST, les@jmdl.com writes: << Thanks for asking, Kate. I don't get that either. I also don't understand what a "civil union" is if it isn't the same as marriage. Confused in Canada. >> I'm not quite sure meself, i think it has to do with legally being allowed to live together, since that is kinda sketchy still. i would say it has to do with the spiritual side of marriage, except we all know how gov't feels about mixing with spirit. still i must say as step is a step, tiny as it might be. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:44:50 EST From: HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com Subject: joni doesn't have a star? is this true that joni doesn't have a star? what the.... and anna nicole smith does? omg, it's no wonder gays can't legally marry and we're at war when the large percentage of the nation doesn't want it and jacko still owns a place called neverland. it's no wonder people "care" that jlo and ben broke up but couldn't give a hang that we don't live in a democracy anymore ( if we ever did). well, maybe i'm being a tinsy bit over the top, but dang, if joni doesn't deserve a star, who does? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:43:55 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: TRAVELOGUE: better than nothing? LONG & RAMBLING "Yes they are stellar - but aren't you asking Joni to paint a starry night again?" No, she made that choice all on her own with a whole collection of her own redone songs. The second half of the 'starry night' quote had to do with "once it's done, it's done" or something to that effect, right? Of course, I don't hold Joni in 2002 to adhere to an off-the-cuff remark she made in 1974, that would be silly. I was making a comparison between a couple of tracks that REALLY sound great to me (Gershwin's World) vs. a bunch that are much less effective, for a variety of reasons, none of which has to do with her voice I will add. I'll also add that I'm not totally nuts about the whole of Gershwin's World...it, like Travelogue, could do with some serious editing. "Joni is the restless innovator - in asking her to record Travelogue with a small jazz combo I think she has already been there, done that, from the Jaco stuff up to the '98 band." Well, the "jazz combo" project should have been BSN anyway. Like you say, the majority of Joni's work doesn't translate to this mode (nor does it translate to multi-orchestration imo - I would offer as exhibit A the orchestrated "Hejira" where that beautiful opening hypnotic riff is all but lost and drowned out). The only real "jazz combo" project she's had previously is the Mingus project, and even then only Sweet Sucker Dance, Chair In The Sky, Pork Pie Hat, and Dry Cleaner fit the mold. Wolf In Lindsey & Boogie Man don't. Besides that, there were one-off's like Blue Motel Room, Centerpiece, Twisted, Be Cool...and one of the reasons they worked so well was that they added to the variety of the sonics. Just look at the variety of arrangements you hear on Court & Spark...stark piano ballads (Court & Spark), woodwind-augmented symphonette (Down To You), bebop jazz (Twisted), rock & roll (Raised on Robbery), acoustic pop (Just Like This Train), electric pop (Help Me) and so on. Travelogue on the other hand has the same dreary overwrought sameness to the sound (even when it's trying to be peppy!). I'm not saying she should have done this with a jazz trio, although David Lahm, Rachel Z, Steve Klink, Lydia van Dam & others have proven that her composition lends itself wonderfully to jazz interpretation. I think about half of the Travelogue songs shouldn't have been done at all and they lose their intimacy. I think the sequencing is wacky (oh, the frumpy dirges one must slog through to get to God Must Be A Boogie Man!) in places, I think the production/engineering is poor. Joni's voice is too low in the mix, or else these arrangements are just TOO BUSY. The rough recordings from the Hommage sound much more exciting to me, mostly because Joni is out in front and not fumbling through the musical maze as is on the disc. If she is the "restless innovator" (and we are lockstep in thought here, David) why not be TRULY creative and do some of these with a string quartet, or a woodwind quintet, or a solo cello or kazoo or bagpipes or SOME VARIETY in the instrumentation? That would enable Joni's vocal (which is surely one of the intended focuses of this project, don't you think?) to shine through, and would even give the musicians a chance to offer up an enjoyable solo, perish the thought. The closest we get is Herbie's on "Boogie Man". Ironically, Joni's MUSIC gets lost because there's so darn much of it. I guess we just have to 'agree to disagree' on the innovative nature of this project. I don't see it as very innovative at all, BUT it could have been. Would it even exist had she not had the contractual obligation? Anyway, regardless of what my opinion of this project is, I am truly delighted that you & others enjoy it, David. Perhaps one day I'll feel the same. Bob NP: Bruce Cockburn, "The Mines Of Mozambique" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:25:12 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Miles Of Aisles > Miles Of Aisles was recorded at the Universal Ampitheatre. If memory serves > correctly, this was back when it was an outdoor venue. I'm not absolutely > sure of that last part, as I've only ever known of the venue as "covered." > My parents saw Sinatra there sometime in the 70s. Anyone recall when they > put the lid on it? That's correct - it was recorded at UA when it was open air and I was there one of the nights (8/17/74)! I think they put the lid on it sometime shortly thereafter ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:44:58 EST From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Re: 40 watt successes Bob wrote: I gently suggest that it not be the woman who was in charge of the Beside Herself statue project, which appears to have fallen off the face of the earth without so much as an update. I think the lead should be taken by an enthusiastic fan, a go-getter who knows how to get things done in LA. Sound like anyone you know, Kakki?! --Bob, awake with a cold way too early and wondering who will play Ethel (MERTZ!) to my Lucy when I come to LA and steal Joni's star! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - --------------------------------------------- I think Kakki and Cyote Rick should get in touch with Charles Valentino to spear head this star thing. He has connections to Angelica Houston and Roseanna Arquett and they all adore Joni. I spent alot of time with Valentino in Saskatoon and he is a very accessable and kind person. We could also talk to Jim Johanson to get in touch to make the suggestion that we do this as a gift from the Homepage and JMDL group. I'll try to contact Valentino if I can. I've invited him to come stay at the ranch but as yet I haven't heard from him. Joni's star in Toronto is next to Neal Young"s, I have a photo of it we could post as a campaign ad. As for Eythl Mertz's part I nominate myself Bob because I have the extra weight required of her, big titts, and a very loud mouth. David always says "Please do NOT talk so loud"! Peace Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:03:55 -0600 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: Re: TRAVELOGUE: better than nothing? LONG & RAMBLING Well that's a mouthful, as it were, and very well stated. Let me respond by pointing to 3 songs on Travelogue: Otis and Marlena - I loved the original. Before Travelogue's release I kept hearing that beautiful guitar intro. orchestrated. I buy the product (shudder) flip it on and what do I hear? This gorgeous voice singing the syllable MAR...no insturments at all. Oh, Oh I thought she's done it again, confounded all my expectations. After another 100 listens I realized the point - Joni is saying this album is about my voice and my ability as a storyteller in song. There are 2 songs to illustrate, both of which took me forever to appreciate mainly because I loved the originals and the new versions seemed to turn the songs upside down. For The Roses: loved the tune because it was so beautiful, all I saw was standing by the ocean looking at the black water, listening to the wind. Under that scenario beauty is a virtue. The new version seemed full of tension. But now the song's drama (the boards and the nails, the empty spotlight, people who have slices of you, teeth sunk in the hand) was conveyed to me by the new interpretation. The Last Time I Saw Richard: In the original I always saw the narrator as the one in the right - she would get her gorgeous wings and fly away - it indeed was only a phase.But that made sense in '71 but not when the song was redone in '02. A phase doesn't last for 30 years. (from '68 - the last time.she saw Richard) What is done with the new arrangement is very subtle, but I believe its Joni's tongue in cheek delivery - much to my surprise Richard and the narrator are both losers and they were both right about each other. Here it is 30 years later and Richard still is denying his romantic nature (the songs you punched are dreaming) at home now most nights with the TV on, The narrator is still denying her cynicism but she is still hidin' behind bottles in dark cafes 30 years down the road. What happened to those gorgeous wings? The song has been transformed into a short story of modern despair (or a dark joke) among the aging boomers. So anyway I haven't responded to your points really but to me Travelogue is great literature. You obviously have good reasons for your opinions and I enjoy the discussion. peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:37:56 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: TRAVELOGUE: better than nothing? . I mean you can't do justice to > Sire of Sorrow by treating it like The Man I Love. > > > peace, david Amen again, Brother! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:29:45 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Today's Library Links: November 19 Sure. Remember about 2 years ago, after we heard that Joni was going to London to record at Sir George Martin's Air Studio again? Before the CBC aired "WOMAN OF HEART AND MIND" and when "A TRAVELOGUE" was still under wraps? We were talking about a documentary by Alison Anders shot of the sessions. It hasn't showed up on DVD yet. I guess no one has figured out that it'll never make money as a theatrical release or a pay-per-view so it's in limbo I guess. - --- Thanks for posting parts of the article. It is neat that Kelly/Kilauren takes home movies (tour again) at Joni's awards shows. How can she stay mad (tour soon) at the Industry when her own kid (take Kilauren on tour) helps her take the edge off? (ecstatic applause. tour in Summer of '04.) as the subliminal guy, Lama The article at http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1017 said, "Two documentaries chronicling her life are slated for release next year. The first, Circle Game, is a behind-the-scenes look at the making of Travelogue, which includes the story of the master tapes nearly being destroyed in a studio fire. It's been submitted for next year's Sundance Film Festival. " McKay asked, >does anyone know anything about this "Circle Game" video mentioned near the end?> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 04:01:11 +0000 From: "c Karma" Subject: The walk of stars, oooh! kakki wrote: And no, Joni does not have a star! So who is going to take the lead on this?? ;-) We'd be tripping over it before David Geffen finished the third of a triple snap. Seriously, though do we really think she'd dig it? Maybe a sustaining music/painting scholarship in her name across the street at UCLA would be a greater honour. DG? God knows they need some new pianos in the Schoenberg practice rooms. CC NP: "Cherokee Louise", Travelogue _________________________________________________________________ Share holiday photos without swamping your Inbox. Get MSN Extra Storage now! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:18:27 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: joni and the music scene I imagine her sweating over a yellow legal pad at the beach in southern California, thirty-two years. Looking over her shoulder, I think it might have read something like this... > i miss the snow here it stays pretty green i'm gonna write for Miles' band then i'm gonna quit this crazy scene yeah like that could ever happen i wish i had an ice cold Tab i could slake 'dis bitchin' thirst on oh i wanna have a great fat tour in '04 i can take my loooong-lost dauughter onnnn... ^insert some ironic Xmas quote here^ pick up laundry, road trip, xmas cards to: Myrtle, Carey, Richard in Detroit , James in Boston, & Worthington Lama > (c) 1971 Joni Mitchell Music, Inc. (BMI) She's been semi-retired since she built that damned place in BC. :) All the best, Lama PS, Side note to the veterans: I had the camera sale to end all camera sales today. I'm replacing my dead-end Olympus film stuff with Canon film stuff. Why? Because it will fit on my Canon digital camera, budgeted for the 2005 JoniFest. Phil said, > I was happy to read that Joni's actually NOT quit -- uptill now I thought that Joni's talk about quitting the scene was real, and that there was nothing new to expect -- now my hopes for one more album of new and self-penned work are up again -- perhaps even a little European tour.....: - )> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 00:15:04 EST From: HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com Subject: Re: joni's star SJC In a message dated 11/19/03 11:19:51 PM EST, les@jmdl.com writes: << I'm probably going to regret asking, but what in the name of Joni has Britney Spears done for the community? ===== Catherine Toronto >> amen sista!!! testify! kakki wrote: And no, Joni does not have a star! So who is going to take the lead on this?? ;-) We'd be tripping over it before David Geffen finished the third of a triple snap. Seriously, though do we really think she'd dig it? Maybe a sustaining music/painting scholarship in her name across the street at UCLA would be a greater honour. DG? God knows they need some new pianos in the Schoenberg practice rooms.>> good point besides joni knows " stars, they come and go, they come fast and slow and they go like the last light of the sun, all in a blaze." what's jacko doing with his star these days? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 00:18:10 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: My Top T-loggers Bob Muller replied with his least unfavorites "(Not in any order) 1. Be Cool 2. Refuge Of The Roads 3. The Dawntreader 4. Otis and Marlena 5. Amelia 6. You Dream Flat Tires (but still needs to swing harder than it does) 7. Slouching Towards Bethlehem - Has an "epic" quality to match its lyrical content that I think is effective 8. God Must Be A Boogie Man And it almost was 9 as I have an honourable mention: The Sire Of Sorrow (Job's Sad Song) - would have made the cut except for that chorus, Thanks for your reply, Bob. I have not been getting very many replies, but I hold out hope for more, following your lead. A few comments: 1. I note the presence of Amelia on your list - that reminded me of Mr. Rockwell's NY Times review of T, the better part of which was spent on describing the charms of Amelia in its earlier incarnations. Apparently you did not hate the T version as much as he did ? (Not that you would come close to preferring it over the other versions) 2. Since you only gave me your favorite (or least unfavorite) 9 tracks, I will assign a score of 2/13 to each of the 13 unnamed tracks, to bring your vote total up to full snuff for statistical purposes (since you apparently consider them all "equally" unworthy). 3. I share your view of the chorus on Sire of Sorrow. It is far duller than Joni's on the original. Basically, no harmony. Is that because the standard Greek choruses were not sung in harmony, or something like that ? If so, again I criticize the decision (suspecting it was Mendoza's, but of course by no means certain). It is part of Joni's talent as a free-form composer that she sets her art to her own creative rules -here, the harmonies of the chorus add great interest for me - why drop them on this version ? (I like the idea that the chorus was male, so that's not my beef). Bobsart ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #362 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)