From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #360 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, November 19 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 360 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Cortazar's Manual for Manuel [dsk ] Re: Cortazar's Manual for Manuel [dsk ] Re: Joni's voice on S&L [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Overdubbing, and Ignorance v Naivete [Bobsart48@aol.com] correspondence with richardson's roundup [twoshoes@sasktel.net] RE: S&L video ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Travelog Top 11 (now Tlight, compliments of Murphy) ["Kate Bennett" <] Re: Art for Art's Sake... ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Joni's voice on S&L ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Travelog Top 11 (now Tlight, compliments of Murphy) ["J.David Sapp" <] Re: Travelog Top 11 (now Tlight, compliments of Murphy) ["J.David Sapp" <] Re: UK PARTY for JONI.. CDing ["Martin Giles" ] RE: Cortazar's Manual for Manuel ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: Instrumental Joni ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Instrumental Joni ["Bill Dollinger" ] Re: Travelog Top 11 (now Tlight, compliments of Murphy) [Bob.Muller@Fluor] Re: Travelog Top 11 (now Tlight, compliments of Murphy) ["J.David Sapp" <] Joni on french TV ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: TRAVELOGUE: better than nothing? [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Joni on french TV [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Instrumental Joni [Phyliss Ward ] Re: Joni on french TV [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: joni's voice on s&l [HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com] Re: Travelog Top 11 (now Tlight, compliments of Murphy) [frasere@intergat] Re: Travelog Top 11 (now Tlight, compliments of Murphy) [Catherine McKay ] RE: Travelog Top 11 (now Tlight, compliments of Murphy) ["Kate Bennett" <] RE: Overdubbing, and Ignorance v Naivete ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Art for Art's sake [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Re: Overdubbing, and Ignorance v Naivete [Catherine McKay ] Re: Police raid Neverland [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Re: Police raid Neverland [David Sadowski ] Re: Art for Art's sake [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] instrumental joni ["Steve Anderson" ] Today in History: November 19 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: November 19 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:56:24 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Cortazar's Manual for Manuel Wally Kairuz wrote: > > i would so much like to read the poem in english. if i remember well, > there's a line that says "paris, una ciudad tan anclada en si misma", which > would loosely translate into "paris, a city so settled in its ways." i've > always wondered if the album that the narrator is so eagerly waiting to get > in paris may be blue. Timewise it's a possibility, but I can't tell from reading this version, Wally. It would be interesting somehow sometime to read your full translation. So to keep all the details in one message: The following is from "A Manual for Manuel" by Julio Cortazar, published in Argentina in 1973 as "Libro de Manuel", translated from the Spanish by Gregory Rabassa, English translation copyright 1978, pages 356-358. I've typed it out exactly as it's printed, except for these things that I can't do in this plain text message: anything between ** and ** is italicized, the name Falu has an accent over the u, Andres has an accent over the e, Gomez has an accent over the o, and Cortazar has an accent over the first a. I typed out what comes after the end of the poem (which really does end with a comma) only because I love the listing of women, that includes Joni, and the phrase, "their laws on my body." I don't know exactly what that means, but I like it anyway. When the snails parade and leave a trail that sketches out the lettuce taste changing its drivel of delight into the perfume of the full moon I am the one who listens in Paris to Joni Mitchell sing the one who between two smokes felt time go by for Pichuco and Robert Firpo My grandmother talking to me in a garden in Banfield, a sleepy suburb of Buenos Aires, **"Snail, snail let the sun shine on your tail."** Maybe that's why on this suburban night there are snails, Joni Mitchell, American girl, who sings between two drinks, between a Falu and a Pedro Maffia (I haven't got any more time and I don't care for fads, I mix Jelly Roll Morton and Gardel and Stockhausen, blessed be the Lamb) What a strange thing being Argentine on this night, knowing I'm going to an appointment with no one, with a woman who belongs to someone else, with someone who spoke to me in the dark, that I'll arrive soon for what What a strange thing being Argentine on this night, the voice of Joni Mitchell between a Falu and a Pedro Maffia, a cocktail of memory, **rare blend of Musetta and Mimi,** to your health, Delfino, childhood comrade, being Argentine in a Paris suburb **"Snail, snail, let the sun shine on your tail."** Pichuco's concertina, Joni Mitchell, Maurice Fanon, girl, **me souvenir de toi, de ta loi sur mon corps,** being Argentine, walking to an appointment with whom and for what reason, such a strange thing without renouncing Joni Mitchell being Argentine in this black stain, Fritz Lang, I am Andres, just tell me, that house behind the trees, there certainly, the cedars and the silence, everything falls together, but then everything begins to be nothing again, knowing that I will come to an appointment with a woman who belongs to someone else, what a strange thing ("Someone wants to speak to you," a waiter in a white jacket, the gesture pointing to the room in the dark)-- I'm coming, my friend, wait till Joni Mitchell finishes, till Atahualpa's silent, I'm getting there, open, Ludmilla, they're waiting for me in a dark room. it's a Cuban, the waiter said, he has something to tell you. I dreamed all that, of course, and suddenly I remember precisely on arriving here, the black stain opens, I see a face, I hear a voice, everything that I dreamed Fritz Lang I remember, like a sheet that's torn in half that garden with cedars in the shadows I remember without surprise, the surprising thing is almost not having recognized it before, from the beginning, on waking up, so clear and obvious and even beautiful to remember it while I approach the door of the chalet and raise my hand so they won't kill me without at least knowing who I am and that I'm not coming to sell them out, what a strange thing being Argentine in this garden and at this hour, plunged into madness and remembering Ludmilla and Francine and Joni Mitchell, their laws on my body, women and voices and bodies and books while I raise my arms so they'll see me easily, Gomez or Lucien Verneuil or maybe Marcos crouching behind the windows, ... Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:01:41 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Cortazar's Manual for Manuel Catherine McKay wrote: > > > "I don't know," Andres said, "it might be that way > > or the reverse but it > > will be *both things, always. ..."* > > The section in the last paragraph, that I marked > between **s, sounds just a wee bit like "Both Sides > Now", doesn't it? It does! Not only sounds similar but it's the same idea. I wonder if it was the author or the translator who included that subtle bit of Joni-flavor. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:53:15 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Joni's voice on S&L > Now Lama- > Bob, I hope I can break this to you gently. > > 1. > I think it was Gerald/Jerry Notaro who dissected S&L long ago. He has a > full surround setup (maybe with external digital to analog converters?) > which gives him vastly superior resolution if I recall. I think he had a > big screen too. Whom ever it was spoke at length about half-matching lip > synching through much of S&L, and that some tracks match *exact*ly. You are right, Jim. I do have a a pretty high tech set up. And it wasn't until I watched the dvd that I noticed it. But it more than the audio quality that made me think it was dubbed. The video editing also made me suspicious. The close ups become mid and long shots during the song, and if you zoom in to the few shots where you can see Joni sing, the video and audio is definitely out of synch. > > 2. > To answer your question, Bob, I'll ask you a question. Have you ever seen > the footage of CSN at Woodstock in the film "WOODSTOCK"? If you've seen the > footage, you weren't watching their performance at WOODSTOCK, if I recall > correctly. They were the headliners but they uhmmm.... that is, that > particular night they... well... let's just say that David Geffen insisted > that the producers use footage from an entirely different venue. That or > release the film without CSN. I know this sounds like I'm trolling for an > argument so I'll ask for someone to back me up on this. Someone younger > than myself, with a superior memory. (Kakki?) > Absolutely correct. Believe me, what ended up on screen was not what we heard. They were flatter than piss on a platter live at Woodstock. That may be the one memory I have retained. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:58:13 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Overdubbing, and Ignorance v Naivete I asked, re the S&L video >"Frankly, I doubt that there were any whole >songs overdubbed - is it common to overdub >concert gaffs ?" And Lama replied, "gently" "To answer your question, Bob, I'll ask you a question. Have you ever seen the footage of CSN at Woodstock in the film "WOODSTOCK"? If you've seen the footage, you weren't watching their performance at WOODSTOCK, if I recall correctly. They were the headliners but they uhmmm.... that is, that particular night they... well... let's just say that David Geffen insisted that the producers use footage from an entirely different venue. " Well, I readily admit to ignorance about recording techniques, as well as how commonly the various ones are applied. As to naivete, I can imagine any number of possibilities, some more foolish than others (tho perhaps the Milly Vanilly thingy woke me to the full range of possibilities). However, I feel that your comment above goes to bolster my case - if all CSN had to do was re-record it in the studio, why didn't they do that ? (Perhaps overdubbing techniques have gotten much better over the last 35 years). Frankly, I think the sound on that film is pretty bad, anyway, so I have not watched / listened to it very often - tho I once probably owned the record. A better example was your Carly Simon one, where the female voices come out of the male backup singers. Did that really happen ? By the way, Joni wouldn't have needed that much touching up in her concert performances, if she put her mind to it (as she might have, knowing the Santa Barbara gig was a one time only recording gig). Did you often get to hear her in concert on or before 1980 ? By the way, Kate - was Miles of Aisles recorded there, too ? Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:03:44 -0600 From: twoshoes@sasktel.net Subject: correspondence with richardson's roundup > Hi Kathy... I hope you were able to hear your letter read on the air. > Just so you know, you had us in tears the first time we read it... > thanks! We have a CD for you. If you recall, Bill mentioned we'd have > prizes for all the letters that went to air. It's kind of a "Best-Of" > from the CBC Radio Orchestra. If you could send me your mailing > address, I'll send that off ASAP. And your suggestion was taken. > Thanks to you and a few others, we're just about ready to send Joni a > rather large stack of letters, as well as a CD copy of the show. > Apparently she was able to hear some of the show live. Yay! > > Thanks again, > Kelly Nakatsuka > Richardson's Roundup Hi Kelly, Emil and I both heard my letter on the air; that was kind of cute -- the look of surprise on his face, because he wasn't expecting it. Excellent news that you are forwarding the letters and that Joni heard some of the show. I think she knows how much she is loved and admired around the world, but it never hurts to hear it, no matter how often. It doesn't matter who you are. I am going to forward your email to the Joni Mitchell Discussion List, assuming I have your permission, as we Joniphiles are always hungry for all and anything to do with her and everyone will be glad to know she is receiving the tributes. Thank you for the CD, and for your appreciation of my letter. I do hope Bill gets to meet and interview Joni sometime. Maybe he can do what Emil never got the chance to: "get to know each other better" than you do during a short chat in a crowded gallery. Love the show, Kate - -- http://xoetc.antville.org who does she think she is? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:16:50 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: S&L video > Can you tell us something about the bowl where this was filmed ? Bobsart < the santa barbara bowl is an outside ampetheatre....about 4500 seats...its a bit like the greek in los angeles its a bit like that...there is a stage & then a couple of rows of seats in front (the pit), then the lawn which mostly has chairs but sometimes is free standing (mosh pit for some acts!)...then the seats go up the hillside from there where you have a wonderful view of the city & ocean...a magical place for summer concerts that go from daylight to sundown to night & when there is a full moon- wow!) it has recently undergone remodling which has totally transformed some of the areas (restrooms, concession stands, backstage) from really funky to quite glitzy... .in the early days if you were broke you used to be able to climb the hillsides & watch the show from outside but that is no longer an option (i remember seeing dave mason & someone else that way)... originally owned by the county, it was where they held annual fiesta events (with horses & riders) which is a celebration of 'old spanish days' , a weeklong celebration that many locals leave town for as its a big tourist draw... it has always been a great concert venue but about 10 years ago or so it was falling to disrepair so a nonprofit org took over & it remains the main place for concerts in our town with a wide range of acts that play there...they try & cater to all genres & age groups the bowl has spoiled me for wanting to go to big cities to see a show...especially in big arenas...unfortunately not all acts can play here as its relatively small so the venue can't afford the price...i am still waiting for the day bruce from nj plays here! please let him know rosie! it really is a georgeous venue that performers love to play... probably more than you needed to know! do i sound like a tourist guide? lol....here is the website if you want more info http://www.sbbowl.com/ miles of aisles wasn't recorded here ... not sure where that one was done... btw my biggest heartache was NOT seeing this show (s&l)...as i'd just had a baby...but i did see both of the bob marley shows (the second one was filmed at the bowl too & is on video which i have never seen)...one at about 81/2 months pregnant & the other with baby boy on dad's shoulders watching the show- he was not even a year old but remembers the show! (i wonder if he's in the film?) okay enough rambling for today... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:23:03 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Travelog Top 11 (now Tlight, compliments of Murphy) I love t'log too david...i just don't always speak up cuz I feel like a broken recor..er scratched cd! Lol... I love the soundtrack quality of it...turn off the lights, stoke the fireplace, pour some red wine & go on a wonderful journey...that's the way to listen to it... >I just wish others could see the beauty of the art itself before casting judgment - art is not necessarily meant to be liked or even enjoyed, but appreciated as the unique vision of the artist.< ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:40:46 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Art for Art's Sake... Putting aside those artists whose #1 priority it is to have a hit record & be a superstar & putting aside the record company influence who definitely are only in it for the profit, I would say that the majority of artists are probably recording their work for pure art's sake...& that often the songs are written for themselves & nobody else...they do hope the record sells because then they get to make more or maybe make a living at doing what they love to do...but as a songwriter I can tell you that just writing the song is not enough...the creative process must include performing (if someone is a performer) & recording because othewise it feels like a project stillborn...it is hard to put into words what is purely an emotional drive to write, record, release but that is the best I can do for now... >Yeah, I know it's all sort of in the eye of the beholder, but still, I think that if a musician truly just wants to create music for its own sake they wouldn't record it, package it, market it and sell it. < ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:45:50 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Joni's voice on S&L >Have you ever seen the footage of CSN at Woodstock in the film "WOODSTOCK"? If you've seen the footage, you weren't watching their performance at WOODSTOCK, if I recall correctly. They were the headliners but they uhmmm.... that is, that particular night they... well... let's just say that David Geffen insisted that the producers use footage from an entirely different venue. < I never knew that they didn't use the woodstock footage for CSN...i haven't seen that film in decades...but having attended woodstock I do remember that there were no headliners...especially CSN who were kind of the new kids on the block at the time...so was Santana...of course after woodstock everything changed for both these bands... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:07:28 -0600 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: Re: Travelog Top 11 (now Tlight, compliments of Murphy) Well we obviously have different definitions of art. But I bet if Joni were asked, making music that others enjoy is not her primary motive. Of course I enjoy music that challenges me hence my love of Joni. peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:11:03 -0600 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: Re: Travelog Top 11 (now Tlight, compliments of Murphy) > because I don't think of a record or a cd as "art" > and I think when a recording artist> A record is not art but it is recorded by a recording artist? Huh? peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 20:21:54 -0000 From: "Martin Giles" Subject: Re: UK PARTY for JONI.. CDing > Weeding sounds good Paz.. > > Basically, I have access to duplicating towers and printers at work, so that > side of things I can do at minimal cost and bother. Posting to loads of > people will actually cost me the most. So, I'll copy/print up the necessary > number of CDs. Then send to say, two or three people. > > Anyone who hasn't already let me know want a copy? > > Martin. in London. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Michael Paz > To: Martin Giles > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 3:58 AM > Subject: Re: UK PARTY for JONI... then some Stryngs news > > > > I would say it would be better for you to weed it. Just offer it up to as > > many as you are willing to send it out to (usually 3) and then 3 re offer > to > > the list. It goes pretty well that way and does not put a strain on anyone > > person. Whatever I can do to help. > > > > Thanks for the news. > > > > Best > > > > Paz > > > > > > > > > Hi Paz > > > > > > I've edited the UK Joni Birthday Party concert and it boils down to a > double > > > CD package. It is a recording from a mic on a table in the middle of the > > > room, and it turns out that the mic was beginning to die at the time. > Having > > > said that, it's a good balance, and not bad audio quality. It's all > slickly > > > edited :) to make a continous concert listening experience, and features > a > > > lot of great renditions of Joni's songs performed in arrangements > varying > > > from piano and voice, to a full band including two percussionists. > > > > > > I'm just wondering about how to go about distributing. I guess I'll > start by > > > taking 'orders' and then see where to go after that. > > > > > > Thanks for the offer of a studio Paz - it's beginning to look like > Phoenix > > > Sound where we did 'The Thrill' may not be in existance much longer. > It's > > > being threatened by a development plan, and may be bulldozed! Isn't > progress > > > a wonderful thing :( We'll have to see how it goes next year with our > > > respective careers - Strings is trying for a job in psychiatry. Chris is > > > involved in a project which may see him working for a new company in the > new > > > year. My company is in the process of making big changes which may build > us > > > in a big way - or possibly will bring the whole thing around our ears! > > > Here's hoping for the former... > > > > > > Strings has had to come back to England for a few weeks, but will soon > be > > > off to Australia again. She'll be back in February whatever happens > anyway, > > > and we're making good use of the time while she's here to write some > more > > > songs. > > > > > > Martin. In London. > > > PS Also thanks so much for your wonderful review of the album on cdbaby. > > > It's quite a high knowing that our music is being appreciated around the > > > world! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Michael Paz > > > To: Martin Giles > > > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 3:49 AM > > > Subject: Re: UK PARTY for JONI... then some Stryngs news > > > > > > > > >> Count me in I want to hear it. Hey why don't you guys come record your > > > next > > >> record in New Orleans??? I'd love to help out any way I can. And tie > that > > >> damn Stryngs woman down so you guys can get to the next level. > > >> > > >> Love > > >> > > >> Paz > > >> > > >>> Hey folks, > > >>> > > >>> This evening, I decided to have a look through the DAT recording I > made > > > of > > >>> last weekend's Joni birthday party in Bedford, UK. It's not a bad > > > recording, > > >>> considering it was just one microphone propped up on a table in the > > > middle > > >>> of the room. I can edit it and make it available on CD-R to anyone who > > >>> wants. > > >>> > > >>> Sally's 'Both Sides Now' is something I'm sure those who were there on > > >>> Saturday will remember for a long, long time. Like Chris, I was > reduced > > > to > > >>> tears by it! Not only was her singing completely thrilling, but her > > > piano > > >>> work was fascinating for the imaginative chords she used. It has come > > > out > > >>> very well on the tape, so I'll get a copy to Chris this weekend to > post > > > on > > >>> our website... that is if Sally doesn't object. Does anyone know how > to > > > get > > >>> in touch with her? Anita? > > >>> > > >>> Lucy - thanks for your post about the weekend - you put it all across > so > > >>> well. And thanks for your compliments about the songs we played you. > > > 'Sweet > > >>> As Lemons' has been played at the Jonifest, of course - but 'Hidden > > > Tattoo' > > >>> and 'Eremos' were genuine debut performances :) It was great to see > you > > >>> again, and to meet Frank also. > > >>> > > >>> Anita - Just want to say a big thank you for organising the Joni > party. > > > It > > >>> was great fun, and a great success. Thank you so much for all your > hard > > >>> work. Do you know if the video has come out at all by the way? > > >>> > > >>> Martin, in London. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:26:25 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Cortazar's Manual for Manuel thank you, debra!!!! so the line about paris settled in its ways must somewhere else. i wish i remembered where exactly. this would be one more clue. it was very moving to read this poem again. chances are i'll never read the original again. one more thing, i recognize all the names (falu, firpo, etc). i wonder if bob wants to footnote the piece for the joni in fiction section. as to "their laws on my body", it is a reference to maurice fanon's **me souvenir de toi, de ta loi sur mon corps,** -- "my memories of you, of your power over my body" (in this context "loi" sounds more like power or control than law to me). love, wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: dsk [mailto:dsk11@bellatlantic.net] > Enviado el: Martes, 18 de Noviembre de 2003 06:56 a.m. > Para: Wally Kairuz > CC: joni@smoe.org > Asunto: Re: Cortazar's Manual for Manuel > > > Wally Kairuz wrote: > > > Timewise it's a possibility, but I can't tell from reading this version, > Wally. It would be interesting somehow sometime to read your full > translation. > > So to keep all the details in one message: The following is from "A > Manual for Manuel" by Julio Cortazar, published in Argentina in 1973 as > "Libro de Manuel", translated from the Spanish by Gregory Rabassa, > English translation copyright 1978, pages 356-358. I've typed it out > exactly as it's printed, except for these things that I can't do in this > plain text message: anything between ** and ** is italicized, the name > Falu has an accent over the u, Andres has an accent over the e, Gomez > has an accent over the o, and Cortazar has an accent over the first a. > I typed out what comes after the end of the poem (which really does end > with a comma) only because I love the listing of women, that includes > Joni, and the phrase, "their laws on my body." I don't know exactly what > that means, but I like it anyway. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 21:43:46 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: Cortazar's Manual for Manuel (for AOL users) Wally says: thank you, debra!!!! so the line about paris settled in its ways must somewhere else. i wish i remembered where exactly. this would be one more clue. it was very moving to read this poem again. chances are i'll never read the original again. one more thing, i recognize all the names (falu, firpo, etc). i wonder if bob wants to footnote the piece for the joni in fiction section. as to "their laws on my body", it is a reference to maurice fanon's **me souvenir de toi, de ta loi sur mon corps,** -- "my memories of you, of your power over my body" (in this context "loi" sounds more like power or control than law to me). > love, wally > > > -----Mensaje original----- > > De: dsk [mailto:dsk11@bellatlantic.net] > > Enviado el: Martes, 18 de Noviembre de 2003 06:56 a.m. > > Para: Wally Kairuz > > CC: joni@smoe.org > > Asunto: Re: Cortazar's Manual for Manuel > > > > > > Wally Kairuz wrote: > > > > > > Timewise it's a possibility, but I can't tell from reading this version, > > Wally. It would be interesting somehow sometime to read your full > > translation. > > > > So to keep all the details in one message: The following is from "A > > Manual for Manuel" by Julio Cortazar, published in Argentina in 1973 as > > "Libro de Manuel", translated from the Spanish by Gregory Rabassa, > > English translation copyright 1978, pages 356-358. I've typed it out > > exactly as it's printed, except for these things that I can't do in this > > plain text message: anything between ** and ** is italicized, the name > > Falu has an accent over the u, Andres has an accent over the e, Gomez > > has an accent over the o, and Cortazar has an accent over the first a. > > I typed out what comes after the end of the poem (which really does end > > with a comma) only because I love the listing of women, that includes > > Joni, and the phrase, "their laws on my body." I don't know exactly what > > that means, but I like it anyway. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:14:42 EST From: Jupydoo@aol.com Subject: Instrumental Joni I'm making a tape for a sister who (its a long story) can only listen to intrsumental music right now. Does Joni have anything strictly intrumental (preferably earlier, but some of her later stuff might do the trick.) If not, can anyone think of some good classic or folk rock that is all instrumental? So far all I have thought of comes from Led Zeppelin. Thanks! - -Juniper ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:21:12 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: Instrumental Joni Maybe try some Leo Kotke...the armadillo album is all instrumental and quite exquisite as well. Victor > > I'm making a tape for a sister who (its a long story) can only listen to > intrsumental music right now. Does Joni have anything strictly intrumental > (preferably earlier, but some of her later stuff might do the trick.) If not, can > anyone think of some good classic or folk rock that is all instrumental? So far > all I have thought of comes from Led Zeppelin. > Thanks! > -Juniper ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:22:32 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: Instrumental Joni Maybe try some Leo Kotke...the armadillo album is all instrumental and quite exquisite as well. Good luck! Victor > > I'm making a tape for a sister who (its a long story) can only listen to > instrumental music right now. Does Joni have anything strictly intrumental > (preferably earlier, but some of her later stuff might do the trick.) If not, can > anyone think of some good classic or folk rock that is all instrumental? So far > all I have thought of comes from Led Zeppelin. > Thanks! > -Juniper ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:31:32 -0500 From: "Bill Dollinger" Subject: Re: Instrumental Joni Pat Methany - One Quiet Night - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Johnson" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 7:22 PM Subject: RE: Instrumental Joni > Maybe try some Leo Kotke...the armadillo album is all instrumental and > quite exquisite as well. > > Good luck! > > Victor > > > > > > > I'm making a tape for a sister who (its a long story) can only listen to > > instrumental music right now. Does Joni have anything strictly > intrumental > > (preferably earlier, but some of her later stuff might do the trick.) If > not, can > > anyone think of some good classic or folk rock that is all instrumental? > So far > > all I have thought of comes from Led Zeppelin. > > Thanks! > > -Juniper ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 14:02:43 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Travelog Top 11 (now Tlight, compliments of Murphy) David said: "But I bet if Joni were asked, making music that others enjoy is not her primary motive." I totally agree with you here, David...that's not the same as your previous comment - if I misinterpreted what you were saying than my bad & break out the wet noodle! :~) But I would add that even if Joni's out to please herself first (which I would argue is the case based on everything she's said and an overview of her career) I would also submit that she has also striven to be successful and also wanted others to enjoy & appreciate her work. That's just part of the human condition, artist or not, do you think? "Of course I enjoy music that challenges me hence my love of Joni." And to echo Mark, "Amen Brother"! Bob NP: Jade, "Mrs. Adams" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:30:37 -0600 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: Re: Travelog Top 11 (now Tlight, compliments of Murphy) ABSOLUTELY , no doubts there. I think we've reached a consensus - no one, Joni included, creates to be rejected. I guess, in my mind, the artist creates to satisfy an inner longing and yes they want others to learn from, grow towards, enjoy, even like their creation. But the inner longing comes first, if it receives public acclaim so much the better or maybe so much the worse, who knows. Of course I may just be pissin' in the wind 'cause I'm not an artist. I do enjoy the discussion tho' as a pleasant break from trying to decide whether A Case of You is about him or him or......:) peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 01:01:20 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Joni on french TV This thursday at 10:45 pm on FR2, the french national TV, no less than Rickie Lee Jones, Buddy Guy, Ben Harper, Carla Bruni are the guests on a night show. Scheduled topics: Dylan and "introduce Joni to a wider french audience". Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:43:10 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: TRAVELOGUE: better than nothing? Jim asked: "Are we so unhappy with it that we'd rather it had not been made?" I don't think anybody would think that the case Jim, so I'll doubt you get the argument you're fishing for. Joni obviously had a passion for the project, that was eveident upon seeing her at the Hommage in Toronto when she was gushing with enthusiasm over it. Many folks seem to enjoy the finished result, so that makes it worthwhile. If it keeps her active and enthused about making music, it's worthy on that level as well, and those of us who were not as happy with the results can look forward to whatever may come next. I listened again Sunday to the 2 Joni vocal tracks on Herbie's "Gershwin's World" cd, and they are SO strong, if only Joni had taken that lead with her interpretations of her own songs it would have been a stellar recording. Bob NP: The Clash, "Clash City Rockers" 6/22/82 - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 19:54:06 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on french TV Laurent writes: << "introduce Joni to a wider french audience" >> But French people are all in such good shape! Maybe if you start eating freedom fries now, you'll all be a "wider audience" by Thursday. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:08:45 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: Instrumental Joni How about "Tiger Bones"? Jupydoo@aol.com wrote: >I'm making a tape for a sister who (its a long story) can only listen to >intrsumental music right now. Does Joni have anything strictly intrumental >(preferably earlier, but some of her later stuff might do the trick.) If not, can >anyone think of some good classic or folk rock that is all instrumental? So far >all I have thought of comes from Led Zeppelin. >Thanks! >-Juniper ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 21:45:26 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on french TV "Scheduled topics: Dylan and "introduce Joni to a wider french audience". Hi Laurent, and I see you've copied out friend Thierry on the message! One way to introduce Joni to a wider French audience is to have French musicians cover her songs, like Thierry does on his website - check it out: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/yoghill/ThArecs.htm Besides the excellent guitar work and Thierry's wonderful voice, check out which Joni songs he does - Hoo Ha!! Bob NP: Ryan Adams, "Love Is Hell, Pt. 1" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 21:54:10 EST From: HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com Subject: Re: joni's voice on s&l someone remarked that it would seem unusal that for joni's voice would sound smoother at the end of the concert then it did at the beginning would be quite odd. my ever silly and sarcastic mind directly thought about her voice now as opossed to 30 years ago after chain smoking all those years. sure something's lost, but something's gained! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 18:56:37 -0800 From: frasere@intergate.ca Subject: Re: Travelog Top 11 (now Tlight, compliments of Murphy) I agree Kate! It's best at night, as you describe. I happen to love T'log, and am forever grateful for any new Joni. Still a wonderful gift to be able to crack open a new release, more than 30 years later! I'll take anything new from dear Joan. Would I like to hear new work? sure, but I'm thrilled she still has creative juices flowing, and I am thankful. Best, Stephen in Vancouver Quoting Kate Bennett : > I love t'log too david...i just don't always speak up cuz I feel like a > broken recor..er scratched cd! Lol... I love the soundtrack quality of > it...turn off the lights, stoke the fireplace, pour some red wine & go > on a wonderful journey...that's the way to listen to it... > > >I just wish others could see the beauty of the art itself before > casting judgment - art is not necessarily meant to be liked or even > enjoyed, but appreciated as the unique vision of the artist.< ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:33:57 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Travelog Top 11 (now Tlight, compliments of Murphy) --- "J.David Sapp" wrote: > > I think we've reached a consensus - no one, Joni > included, creates to be > rejected. I guess, in my mind, the artist creates to > satisfy an inner > longing and yes they want others to learn from, grow > towards, enjoy, even > like their creation. But the inner longing comes > first, if it receives > public acclaim so much the better or maybe so much > the worse, who knows. > > Of course I may just be pissin' in the wind 'cause > I'm not an artist. Not pissin' at all. It makes perfect sense. You don't need to be an "artist". Anything you create, whether it's a simple meal or an e-mail, can give you a sense of pleasure and satisfaction and if others enjoy it too, so much the better. I think it's human nature to want to be accepted or loved by others. Being rejected is hard to take - we're not wired to accept rejection gracefully. When you create anything and you offer it up to others, that's baring a piece of your soul. If they don't like it, it hurts like hell. It could be a meal you've made that your spouse or kids or anyone says is crappy (ouch!), or a painting or a piece of music. (But I think we all agree that Joni can dish it out too, can't she!) "Now I sit up here, the critic And they introduce some band But they seem so much confetti Looking at 'em on my TV screen." ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 20:11:04 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Travelog Top 11 (now Tlight, compliments of Murphy) Highfive stephen! >I agree Kate! It's best at night, as you describe. I happen to love T'log< , ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:27:52 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: RE: Overdubbing, and Ignorance v Naivete Hi Bob, I wasn't slamming you for naviete. It's just my coarse humor, okay? In the old days, Chuck Berry plugged into an amp, the drummer was unamplified, and the bassist had an amp. There were no boards in the early days. I love that sound, everyone plugged into their own amp. It's much richer than squeezing everyone onto tape. Just a recording of an electric guitar, one instrument, looses a lot when you squeeze it through extra electronics, onto a recording medium, then back out through extra electronics during playback. There are better ways to record music (to me) than to plug everyone into a board but they're less convenient. I think by the time Woodstock happened, they had a board. Like today, they ran long cords up to remote speakers. I recall that the only "soundtrack" the movie's producers had was cassettes. Bad cassettes. Very bad cassettes. It wasn't "shot" with a budget on 35mm like a movie either. They just had people running around, documentary style, with 16mm cameras. I didn't make that up, about CSN. They actually used film of a different CSN concert and pasted it into the Woodstock movie. They weren't happy with their performance. About Carly, yeah, I bought it on VHS for $20. She looks great and Martha's Vineyard looks great but the sound is way, way too good for the conditions. I guess each project takes on a life of its own, depending on what the problems are. I'm not slamming Carly Simon either. The team got a very professional video out of it. On the other hand, "Tori Amos in New York" is very natural. There's music and then there's video. I really liked seeing Beth Patterson's performance on "Louisanna Jukebox" (a music tv show in New Orleans) but hers are not available on the web anymore. All the best, Lama ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 20:35:47 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Instrumental Joni >If not, can anyone think of some good classic or folk rock that is all instrumental?< If you love acoustic guitars then I'd recommend 2 of my favorite instrumental cds which are the taylor guitar compilations...check out their website...lots of different artists playing songs...all instrumental...fabulous production & players & of course great sounding geetars Kate www.katebennett.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:35:31 EST From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Re: Art for Art's sake Joni's Mendal show was called "Voices" incorporating her music with her art. Also in WOHAM she said they go hand in hand like crop rotation. Since the beginning she has incorporated sound, visual, painting, photagraphy, felt pen drawing, and video with everything she has done. So yes Travelogue is part of her art, hence the painting series was called reflections, and the overview of the songs are an overview of her career and the art was to make them very cinematic like an old movie but with more text, A reflection of her song writing, which she has. In art school you learn that you incorporate any or all of the five senses, and even the "minds eye." She has written in a way where we feel, taste, touch, smell, see, and allow our minds eye to conjure up and travel different plateaus and all kinds of life's illusions. I think when you reach a point of your life you do start a process of reflecting back on you life and loves and you become very melancholy about things and they do run cinematic in your mind much like we remember an old movie right down to the musical score. I profess she is the only living "Saint" on the planet, and I am forever grateful for anything she puts out there. She is facing health issues with her post polio syndrome which makes it hard for her to tour and travel, and stress only brings it on harder. When you start dealing with things that are terminal, everyday becomes a travelogue wondering how far you can plan ahead and how much you reflect the past. Peace Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:43:40 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Overdubbing, and Ignorance v Naivete --- Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: > > A better example was your Carly Simon one, where the > female voices come out > of the male backup singers. Did that really happen ? Easily explained. Tight pants and tight shoes. :-D ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:47:43 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Art for Art's sake --- MINGSDANCE@aol.com wrote: > I think when you reach a > point of your life you do start a process of > reflecting back on you life and > loves and you become very melancholy about things > and they do run cinematic in > your mind much like we remember an old movie right > down to the musical score. > I profess she is the only living "Saint" on the > planet, and I am forever > grateful for anything she puts out there. She is > facing health issues with her > post polio syndrome which makes it hard for her to > tour and travel, and stress > only brings it on harder. When you start dealing > with things that are > terminal, everyday becomes a travelogue wondering > how far you can plan ahead and how > much you reflect the past. Beautifully said. I haven't listened to t'log in a while so it's on for tomorrow (which happens in about 15 minutes my time.) ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 00:23:18 EST From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Re: Police raid Neverland Kate wrote: Then there is dweezil...or how about god!? Lol...wasn't that what grace slick almost named her child? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - --------------------------------------------- Yes, and on my favorite album of theirs "Blows Against The Empire" she wrote that "No one has the right to say who comes to or from my body." I always loved that and believed it. There is a song which sings about the baby tree. I would love to get a copy of that old album. I think it was around 1968, can anyone refresh an old queens memory? Peace Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:41:51 -0600 From: David Sadowski Subject: Re: Police raid Neverland Blows Against the Empire came out in 1970, credited to "Jefferson Starship" (not the same as the band it became later). It has been reissued on CD and Paul Kantner also did an anniversary tour for it 25 years on with a different singer doing Grace Slick's parts. I think he did have Jack Casady on bass though. MINGSDANCE@aol.com wrote: >Kate wrote: >Then there is dweezil...or how about god!? Lol...wasn't that what grace >slick almost named her child? >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >--------------------------------------------- > > Yes, and on my favorite album of theirs "Blows Against The Empire" she >wrote that "No one has the right to say who comes to or from my body." I always >loved that and believed it. There is a song which sings about the baby tree. I >would love to get a copy of that old album. I think it was around 1968, can >anyone refresh an old queens memory? >Peace >Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 01:31:19 EST From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Re: Art for Art's sake Thanks Catherine, I'm wishing you an enjoyable listening. Maybe you could get 3or4 bottles of red wine or even some everclear and really go on a strange journey:~) Stay warm up there! Peace Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 00:42:42 -0600 From: "Steve Anderson" Subject: instrumental joni My favorite instrumental cds Michael Hedges Aerial Boundaries Jim Hall Concierto De Aranjuez Les McCann Invitations to Openess beautiful improvisational jazz Rick Ruskin (amazing lp that came out in the mid 70's instrumental acoustic guitar Nick Drake Pink Moon (not all insturmental but very sparse) William Ackerman many cds on windham hill Icarus by Paul Winter Consort Ralph Towner on ecm label very moody and beautiful John Mclaughlan Waltz for Debbie (tribute to Bill Evans Steve Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 02:00:34 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: November 19 1966: Chuck and Joni perform at the Second Fret in Philadelphia. 1975: Joni, as part of the Rolling Thunder Revue with Dylan and others, performed today at the Memorial Auditorium in Worchester, Massachusetts. - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 02:00:35 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: November 19 On November 19 the following articles were published: 2002: "Groovy, creative Yorkville past fading fast" - Toronto Globe and Mail (Mention) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=985 2002: "Joni Mitchell `not sour,' will keep making music" - Toronto Star (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=981 2002: "Joni Mitchell says her songs aren't 'disposable,' new meaning on latest album" - Canadian Press (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1017 2002: "Joni Mitchell, Nelly Furtado win Socan awards for top artists on radio" - Yahoo News Canada (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=982 2002: "Joni Mitchell, Nelly Furtado win SOCANs" - Toronto Globe and Mail (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=983 2002: "Joni Mitchell: Travelogue" - Boston Globe (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=984 2002: "Travelogue" - BBCi (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1005 2002: "Travelogue" - CDNow.com (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1001 2002: "Travelogue" - New York Post (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1000 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #360 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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