From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #351 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, November 12 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 351 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Uk joni birthday bash ["Ross, Les" ] Re: Uk joni birthday bash ["kakki" ] Re: Tin Angel [rsc1@humboldt.edu] Improving on "Clouds" - some more thoughts [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni 83 Tour [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Improving on Clouds [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Improving on Clouds ["anon anon" ] Re: Improving on Clouds [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Improving on Clouds [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Improving on Clouds ["Kate Bennett" ] San Franciscans, Mark your calendars... ["Kate Bennett" ] Joni in Rolling Stone [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Re: Improving on "Clouds" - some more thoughts [Gary Zack ] lunar eclipse ["mia ortlieb" ] re: Joni's Chocolate Birthday Cake ["mia ortlieb" ] things i like - vljc ["patrick leader" ] Joni lyric used in book text [PassScribe@aol.com] re: mproving on "Clouds" - some more thoughts [cul heath ] Improving on "Clouds" - some more thoughts ["Kate Bennett" Subject: Uk joni birthday bash I wasn't at all sure how well this was going to be attended but in the event it seemed to be pretty packed. I was sitting near the front intent upon ignoring what I might be facing later on. It was a great atmosphere with a real supportive vibe coming in from all attending. Great sound, great percussion support from the dynamic duo in the corner whose names I forget (anita step up and laud, please) and great guitar fills from Dave who along with Chris Marshall as usual, were 'most valued players'. Many thanks to anita and steph for organising the do. Credit and kudos in large lumps to your good selves. It was lovely to catch up with the Festivarian Alumni. Queenmost Lucy coming along was an unexpected (for me) uber bonus. Some lovely performances throughout were topped, and then some, by the previously reported Sally Clay. Oh dear lord, I don't ever want to go on stage after she's been on. Quite the best vocal performance I've heard in a long time. She is truly a great one. Her BSN has to be one of the best ever anywhere. By her own admission not a Joni fan as such, but knew some of her songs. I'm telling you, even having heard her at the rehearsal a couple of weeks ago, hearing her again only confirmed that I wasn't remembering her work through the aural equivalent of rose tinted glasses. I wish with all my heart that she could attend NE Fest in the US next year. She could sing the autoexec.bat file and I'd pay to listen. And there was cake, birthday cake, replete with frosting and a gorge joni picture. All in all a tremendous time was had. There is a recording somewhere. Martin, step up please! There were photo flashes going off hither and yon, so someone has the goods. Les (london) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 01:18:26 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Uk joni birthday bash How great to hear of the other Joni bash that took place halfway around the world this past weekend! It feels like "simulcast" magic! Congratulations on your fantastic party and hope to see photos and hear some of the performances soon. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 02:06:23 -0800 (PST) From: rsc1@humboldt.edu Subject: Re: Tin Angel Like Victor, I love "Tin Angel" as a lead track. I got into that album my first year at college, and played "Clouds" a lot. TA was my favorite song on the record, and I always think of it when I see the cover. Also, I'm not one for the "obvious" choice... though I bet someone at Warners wanted "Chelsea" at the begining... luckily Joni got her way! Russ > Joni usually has great (great meaning appropriate) opening tracks on her > albums, but "Tin Angel" was not a good choice to lead off Clouds. I'm not > saying that I don't care for the song because I do, but it was a poor choice for a lead-in. She should have opened the album with Chelsea Morning. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:26:27 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Improving on "Clouds" - some more thoughts Having read others' reactions to Bob M's musings on "Clouds" and whether or not the order of songs could have been different, and whether or not "Just like me" might more appropriately belong, I went away and thought about this and almost turned the computer on last night to post something else, but thought better of it and decided maybe sleep was needed. So now I've had a chance to think it over and give "Clouds" another listen or two and I've changed my mind. And a good thing too - minds, like clothes, should be changed and cleaned frequently. If you want to view Joni's albums as song cycles, or plays, or novels, or what-have-you (and I always do), the the song order and the choices of songs is/are perfect. The beauty of seeing it this way is that you can fit everything into that particular framework. Yes, it's artificial, but so is art. So, here we go. It's gonna be a long one, so get yourself a drink, a Martini, milk and cookies, another coffee, who cares? put your feet up and relax. Clouds was the first Joni album I ever had. "Tin Angel" was the first Joni song I ever heard. From the opening notes,single notes in a minor key about new-found love, I was hooked. I was 16 and I was a Joni Mitchell fan. No turning back. You know it's not going to work out. You can tell by the sadness of it. She's found someone to love but he's an angel made of tin and tin bends and breaks too easily. Never mind if Tin Angel is the name of a cafe or a club; this guy is the tin angel. He's going to hurt her. He's going to dump her (the bastard!) or maybe she's going to dump him because he turns out not to be who she was hoping he would be. Never mind all that. Right now she's in love - heartache can wait. "Chelsea Morning" is the ebullience of a new day and a new love. It is full of colour and sound and light and a total sensory experience filtered through happiness. It is the mundane made beautiful, transformed by coloured glass into jewel-light, full of honey and oranges, butterscotch and incense. It is present, both as a tense and as a gift. It's the here and now. Next comes "I don't know where I stand". Love is still new. The girl is feeling uncertain about the whole thing. She's still in the present tense but her mind is wandering to the future, even though she's trying to hold it back in the present. This song reminds me of "A midsummer night's dream". It's so full of beautiful summer's-evening imagery. But the guy is gone - he's in another place and all they have is the telephone to connect them. (And you know he's not going to stick around, it's not going to work out.) "That song about the midway" brings you to Joni still in the here-and-now, but now she's looking back. Now she can look at the guy (I don't even care if it's the same guy - it probably isn't, but sequentially, it works) with a sort of admiration. The tin angel has become a devil wearing wings. He's a rambler and a gambler and a sweet-talking ladies' man and she wishes she could be more like him, but she's tired of it all. She goes to the fortune-teller ("Roses Blue") who predicts nothing but doom. Only laughter can save you from sinking under, and eighteen bucks goes up in smoke. "The gallery" is a litany of ladies this man (the bastard!) has loved and left, while she, apparently, is left behind to dust the portraits and collect his mail. She's sad and sorry but not ashamed. She sneers at him a bit ("Now you're flying back this way like some lost homing piegon") but ultimately she can't be cruel to him - still, she reminds him that she could be if she really wanted to, so he'd better be grateful for her gentleness. "I think I understand" moves away from the love affair into dealing with fear and despair. It could be despair over lost love, but it's more than that. She's facing the black hole of despair, the slough of despond. But she's finding a way through it - you have to pick your way across the stones, but these stones lie on sinking sand, so you have to be careful not to lose your step. When the voices call you back to troubled times and forests block the light, bring back the light of good memories of a brighter time, 'cause, honey, that may be all you've got. You could argue that the next two songs don't really fit this song cycle, but then you have to realize what comes next. "Songs to aging children come" reflects back on the light and magic of "Chelsea Morning" and "I don't know where I stand", while making the point that this girl is getting older now. The roses from "Roses Blue" put in another appearance but now they're dying. "The fiddle and the drum" recalls some of the despair of "I think I understand" but now it is global and not personal. Will we always be at war and are our friends doomed to become our enemies? "Both sides now" brings it all together, from the concrete (more or less - clouds are vapour, after all, not something you can grab hold of), to the cliche of love complete with its moons and Junes, to the ups and downs of life itself. Clouds can be beautiful but they also turn nasty and dump rain and snow on everyone. The ferris wheels and circus crowds recall "That song about the midway". Love is a fairy tale, an illusion. The starry-eyed girl has become a disillusioned woman who has decided it's better not to give yourself away. Ultimately she has realized that things aren't as simple as she once thought. Now all she knows is that she doesn't know anything. Just like me? ;) p.S. Thanks to Muller for having raised this whole issue. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 08:48:38 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Re: Improving on Clouds Sorry folks. I love Tin Angel. I love it at the beginning of the album. "I found someone to love today..." Perhaps it was the first vestige of a concept album. Tin Angel is one of the finest and strongest songs on that lp- maybe that's why she chose to open with it. But only Joni knows for sure! Steve .At 10:20 PM 11/10/2003 -0500, Catherine McKay wrote: > --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > Joni usually has great >(great meaning appropriate) >> opening tracks on her >> albums, but "Tin Angel" was not a good choice to >> lead off Clouds. I'm not saying >> that I don't care for the song because I do, but it >> was a poor choice for a >> lead-in. She should have opened the album with >> Chelsea Morning. > >I'd really love to argue with you about that, if for >no other reason than to get some kind of debate going >on here, because things have been awfully dull around >here lately. Or is it just me? Never mind that, but >dammit, Muller, i agree with you. I think it's usually >a good thing to start off a show, or an album, with >something rousing, and "Chelsea Morning" certainly >fits the bill. "Tin Angel" could have come later, in >fact, maybe just after "CM" because it's OK to get >quiet and retrospective after the big opening number. > >Maybe someone else will disagree? I sure hope so. > >And I'm not particularly fond of "Roses blue" either, >so I can't even argue about that. Maybe I can argue >with my dog who doesn't seem to want to go for a walk >tonight for some reason. But then again, neither do I. > >===== >Catherine >Toronto >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- >We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction > > > > >______________________________________________________________________ >Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:00:12 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Joni 83 Tour Subject: Re: Improving on Clouds >From: Catherine McKay >Reply-To: Catherine McKay >To: SCJoniGuy@aol.com, joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: Improving on Clouds >Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:20:00 -0500 (EST) > >And I'm not particularly fond of "Roses blue" either, >so I can't even argue about that. I really like "Roses blue",I don't like "That song about the midway" much though... _________________________________________________________________ Frustrated with dial-up? Get high-speed for as low as $26.95. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:05:04 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Improving on Clouds "Perhaps it was the first vestige of a concept album." Of course, by now Catherine has fleshed this thought out beautifully...as for the concept album, she definitely did it with her debut, what with the "city" side and the "seaside" side. "Tin Angel is one of the finest and strongest songs on that lp- maybe that's why she chose to open with it." For that matter, so did Tom Rush when he recorded it, so maybe you're on to something. And as I said, I too think it's a wonderful song. Bob NP: Jeff Buckley, "Nightmares By The Sea" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:01:30 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Improving on Clouds icnh@hotmail.com writes: > "That song about > the midway" much though... Yeah, Joni's version is wimpy. To really appreciate this song you need to listen to Bonnie Raitt's perfect rendition. If you're nice to the Covers King he may let you have a copy of his Sweet 16 covers CD that this appears on. Or just buy the Bonnie CD and fall in love with her too! - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:03:22 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Improving on Clouds I sort of agree with you that the standard way to start off an album is with something upbeat...but joni has never done anything the standard way, ie not touring after she recorded lotc & going to greece instead (obviously my head is still full of factoids about joni from our tribute) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:04:40 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: San Franciscans, Mark your calendars... As someone who grew up going to broadway musicals, I think it's a great idea! I don't get the excerpt below though. In an era where commercials for cars & shoes, etc use classic rock & pop songs how on earth could a broadway musical be considered selling out? To me its very artful... Maybe patrick or someone more in tune with broadway these days can comment... Bob>The whole story (not much more Joni content though) at: http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpress/7198701.htm >Critics and fans might disagree as to whether turning pop music into >musical theater is a good thing or a bad thing. When does the desire to >rejuvenate pop music and bring it to a new and wider audience cross >over into the uglier spectacle of shilling one's art and selling out? >The answers might not be certain, but what is clear is that no pop >music oeuvre - no matter how revered - will remain sacrosanct: Just two >weeks ago, Yoko Ono signed off on a stage musical based on the songs of >her late husband. "The Lennon Project" is projected for the 2004-05 >Broadway season.< ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:21:57 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Improving on Clouds --- Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > icnh@hotmail.com writes: > > > "That song about > > the midway" much though... > > Yeah, Joni's version is wimpy. To really appreciate > this song you need to listen to Bonnie Raitt's > perfect rendition. If you're nice to the Covers King > he may let you have a copy of his Sweet 16 covers CD > that this appears on. Or just buy the Bonnie CD and > fall in love with her too! > > --Bob Joni's version wimpy? Get outta heah! But definitely buy all of Bonnie's CDs. She's another stellar performer that I just love. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:59:15 EST From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Joni in Rolling Stone The Last Waltz is #1 for the best rock concerts on DVD. There is a photo of her and Neal Young at the mike.Page 78. Way to go Joni your " Number One"! Peace Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 18:38:55 -0800 From: Gary Zack Subject: Re: Improving on "Clouds" - some more thoughts Loved reading your thoughts on the sequencing of "Clouds" Catherine. Well done! "Clouds" was my first Joni album as well and "Tin Angel" was the first song I ever heard Joni sing too, so it's very special to me. I loved it - but wow, when "Chelsea Morning" followed I almost fell over in awe, it was the strangest and most beautiful song I had ever heard. But Bob knows I am really in love with "Just Like Me" too. I almost think it might have fit well somewhere on "Ladies of the Canyon." I'd be glad to be the one to make it a hit :-) and give Joni some royalty pennies and a new cover for Bob! Anybody out there willing to work out an arrangement of the song for me? What do you think? I love it with guitar - but I wonder what a really nice piano arrangement of the song would sound like? By the way - as I mentioned to Bob - the "Second Frets" set recording of "Just Like Me" is cut - and we get to hear two verses. The "Let's Sing Out" version is NOT cut, but is still only two verses, one of which we don't hear on the "Second Frets" version. So there are THREE verses to "Just Like Me" and we all have yet to hear the true complete version. That reminds me of "Conversation." The "Ladies of the Canyon" version doesn't have the last verse, but thankfully we have it complete on the "Second Fret Sets." Best regards, Gary Zack Detroit Catherine McKay wrote: >Having read others' reactions to Bob M's musings on >"Clouds" and whether or not the order of songs could >have been different, and whether or not "Just like me" >might more appropriately belong, I went away and >thought about this and almost turned the computer on >last night to post something else, but thought better >of it and decided maybe sleep was needed. So now I've >had a chance to think it over and give "Clouds" >another listen or two and I've changed my mind. And a >good thing too - minds, like clothes, should be >changed and cleaned frequently. > >If you want to view Joni's albums as song cycles, or >plays, or novels, or what-have-you (and I always do), >the the song order and the choices of songs is/are >perfect. The beauty of seeing it this way is that you >can fit everything into that particular framework. >Yes, it's artificial, but so is art. > >So, here we go. It's gonna be a long one, so get >yourself a drink, a Martini, milk and cookies, another >coffee, who cares? put your feet up and relax. > >Clouds was the first Joni album I ever had. "Tin >Angel" was the first Joni song I ever heard. From the >opening notes,single notes in a minor key about >new-found love, I was hooked. I was 16 and I was a >Joni Mitchell fan. No turning back. > >You know it's not going to work out. You can tell by >the sadness of it. She's found someone to love but >he's an angel made of tin and tin bends and breaks too >easily. Never mind if Tin Angel is the name of a cafe >or a club; this guy is the tin angel. He's going to >hurt her. He's going to dump her (the bastard!) or >maybe she's going to dump him because he turns out not >to be who she was hoping he would be. > >Never mind all that. Right now she's in love - >heartache can wait. > >"Chelsea Morning" is the ebullience of a new day and a >new love. It is full of colour and sound and light and >a total sensory experience filtered through happiness. >It is the mundane made beautiful, transformed by >coloured glass into jewel-light, full of honey and >oranges, butterscotch and incense. It is present, both >as a tense and as a gift. It's the here and now. > >Next comes "I don't know where I stand". Love is >still new. The girl is feeling uncertain about the >whole thing. She's still in the present tense but her >mind is wandering to the future, even though she's >trying to hold it back in the present. This song >reminds me of "A midsummer night's dream". It's so >full of beautiful summer's-evening imagery. But the >guy is gone - he's in another place and all they have >is the telephone to connect them. (And you know he's >not going to stick around, it's not going to work >out.) > >"That song about the midway" brings you to Joni still >in the here-and-now, but now she's looking back. Now >she can look at the guy (I don't even care if it's the >same guy - it probably isn't, but sequentially, it >works) with a sort of admiration. The tin angel has >become a devil wearing wings. He's a rambler and a >gambler and a sweet-talking ladies' man and she wishes >she could be more like him, but she's tired of it all. > >She goes to the fortune-teller ("Roses Blue") who >predicts nothing but doom. Only laughter can save you >from sinking under, and eighteen bucks goes up in >smoke. > >"The gallery" is a litany of ladies this man (the >bastard!) has loved and left, while she, apparently, >is left behind to dust the portraits and collect his >mail. She's sad and sorry but not ashamed. She sneers >at him a bit ("Now you're flying back this way like >some lost homing piegon") but ultimately she can't be >cruel to him - still, she reminds him that she could >be if she really wanted to, so he'd better be grateful >for her gentleness. > >"I think I understand" moves away from the love affair >into dealing with fear and despair. It could be >despair over lost love, but it's more than that. She's >facing the black hole of despair, the slough of >despond. But she's finding a way through it - you have >to pick your way across the stones, but these stones >lie on sinking sand, so you have to be careful not to >lose your step. When the voices call you back to >troubled times and forests block the light, bring back >the light of good memories of a brighter time, 'cause, >honey, that may be all you've got. > >You could argue that the next two songs don't really >fit this song cycle, but then you have to realize what >comes next. > >"Songs to aging children come" reflects back on the >light and magic of "Chelsea Morning" and "I don't know >where I stand", while making the point that this girl >is getting older now. The roses from "Roses Blue" put >in another appearance but now they're dying. > >"The fiddle and the drum" recalls some of the despair >of "I think I understand" but now it is global and not >personal. Will we always be at war and are our >friends doomed to become our enemies? > >"Both sides now" brings it all together, from the >concrete (more or less - clouds are vapour, after all, >not something you can grab hold of), to the cliche of >love complete with its moons and Junes, to the ups and >downs of life itself. Clouds can be beautiful but >they also turn nasty and dump rain and snow on >everyone. The ferris wheels and circus crowds recall >"That song about the midway". Love is a fairy tale, an >illusion. The starry-eyed girl has become a >disillusioned woman who has decided it's better not to >give yourself away. Ultimately she has realized that >things aren't as simple as she once thought. Now all >she knows is that she doesn't know anything. > >Just like me? ;) > >p.S. Thanks to Muller for having raised this whole >issue. > > >===== >Catherine >Toronto >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction > > > > >______________________________________________________________________ >Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:15:11 -0000 From: "Martin Giles" Subject: Re: UK PARTY for JONI... then some Stryngs news Hey folks, This evening, I decided to have a look through the DAT recording I made of last weekend's Joni birthday party in Bedford, UK. It's not a bad recording, considering it was just one microphone propped up on a table in the middle of the room. I can edit it and make it available on CD-R to anyone who wants. Sally's 'Both Sides Now' is something I'm sure those who were there on Saturday will remember for a long, long time. Like Chris, I was reduced to tears by it! Not only was her singing completely thrilling, but her piano work was fascinating for the imaginative chords she used. It has come out very well on the tape, so I'll get a copy to Chris this weekend to post on our website... that is if Sally doesn't object. Does anyone know how to get in touch with her? Anita? Lucy - thanks for your post about the weekend - you put it all across so well. And thanks for your compliments about the songs we played you. 'Sweet As Lemons' has been played at the Jonifest, of course - but 'Hidden Tattoo' and 'Eremos' were genuine debut performances :) It was great to see you again, and to meet Frank also. Anita - Just want to say a big thank you for organising the Joni party. It was great fun, and a great success. Thank you so much for all your hard work. Do you know if the video has come out at all by the way? Martin, in London. >Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:49:07 +0000 >From: Chris Marshall >Subject: Re: UK PARTY for JONI... then some Stryngs news >I just wanted to second Lucy's comments about Sally. The standout >song was Both Sides Now, played on Piano with some rather >luscious jazzy chords here and there to keep us all guessing. >But, oh, her voice. BSN is not a song that I've ever had much >affinity for, the first version I heard being Glen Campbell's >cover. Sally's version knocked my socks off and reduced me to >a sobbing heap in the corner. And I was not alone there - >not a dry seat in the house. >Wonderful wonderful wonderful. If Martin's DAT recording worked, >I'll post a fragment on our website, and hope the lawyers don't >come knocking. >- --Chris Marshall > >chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) > >"If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" > Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" > Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:58:03 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: BJM in "love actually" As reported earlier, there's a BJM (Big Joni Moment) in the new film "love actually." Worth the price of admission for this Joni-starved fan (she has been invisible lately, eh?). OK film, not great or maybe not even very good, but OK. As the Emma Thompson character in the film explains, being a Big Joni Fan is a lifetime relationship. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:44:59 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Improving on Clouds I suppose you can interpret it anyway you > like, but to my thinking the most obvious one is that she's trying to > convince a lover who's leaving her to stay. I would say that > qualifies as a 'dark' element. > > In the morning, she sees the rainbow on the wall, and the other sights > outside her window...pedestrians, pigeons, papers...all there in the > morning, but soon enough to be gone. The curtain closes, "the rainbow > runs away", and she tells her lover all the sweet things she would > do..."if only you would stay". She could have just as easily have > been thinking about her Little Green as well, but either way it's got > a melancholy tone to it, and is ultimately a song about loss & denial. I do not get this at *all*. This is a song of pure unadulterated joy. When she is asking her companion to stay, it is nothing so dire as her begging him not to leave her. They're having a wonderful time, enjoying one another in every way and she doesn't want it to end. She doesn't want him to go home. That's it. It's not the end of a relationship or about denial or loss or anything that serious. It's about enjoying time spent with a lover and wanting it to continue. And at the close of the song she sings 'Wake up, it's a Chelsea morning' which tells me that he did spend the day and the following night with her and they had a lovely time. Maybe he had things to do that day but she talked him into putting them off so they could spend the day together. Where is the melancholy? I don't get it. Mark > > Clouds & LOTC were released about a year apart; many of the songs > from both would fit on the other & mesh with the sound or theme. For > that matter she could have put "Urge For Going" on Clouds and it > would have fit in nicely. > > Bob > > NP: Jeff Buckley, "Mojo Pin" > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------------------------------- > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential > and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient > of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, > retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any > action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you > received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the > material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message > are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect > the views of the company. > -------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:45:34 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: lunar eclipse I'm always amazed that there seems to be a Joni song that applies to just about everything in life. Last Saturday night, where I live we finally had the opportunity to watch a long-awaited total lunar eclipse during an actual *clear* night. After I watched the Earth's shadow pass the moon, this line immediately came to me, and has been playing in my head constantly ever since: "We kissed the angels and the moon eclipsed You know, Happiness is the best facelift" I sure love that album! Mia _________________________________________________________________ MSN Messenger with backgrounds, emoticons and more. http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_customize ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:01:33 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: Joni's Chocolate Birthday Cake Oh my gosh, Pearl! You have a piece of Joni's B-day Cake! I would have done the same thing as you and saved it forever. Or maybe I would've had the thing shellacked, preserved, and framed! You are so lucky to have met Joni! Please tell us more... do you remember your conversation with her? Mia _________________________________________________________________ Great deals on high-speed Internet access as low as $26.95. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 23:11:10 -0500 From: "patrick leader" Subject: things i like - vljc there was a thread a while back on joni's slouching toward bethlehem, and whether she should have set yeats' great poem at all. it's one of my favorite joni songs, so you can guess my opinion. anyway, someone posted 'the second coming' and i printed it out and slipped it into the cd booklet, so it's always there. one of my favorite songs in the world is 'theme for the pope', the wordless song from rickie lee jones' 'the magazine', but until a few weeks ago, i'd never heard about the french lyrics that wally has brought up. just days after a mention, they were posted, and then translated, and now printed out and tucked into another cd booklet. i love this list. patrick np - roddick and moya (in a black sleeveless shirt, grrr) "the child is so sweet, and the girls are so rapturous. isn't it lovely how artists can capture us?" 'children and art', from sondheim's 'sunday in the park with george' ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 23:39:01 EST From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Joni lyric used in book text Hi to all, I can't believe it's been so long since I've taken part in any of the latest threads but I'm still tied up with side work until this weekend, at least. I'll have at least a dozen batches of LMDL Digests to read through to catch up with what's going on. I did want to take a minute to let you all in on an interesting item I found. I had jury duty last Thursday so I brought a book with me to read while waiting... and waiting... to be called, that I've been wanting to read but had no time: "Fire and Rain, The James Taylor Story" by Ian Halperin. On page 37, I came across the following: "At his parents' home he felt like he was being watched twenty-four hours a day because of their concerns about his drug habits. When he was on his own, he did whatever he pleased, whenever he wanted. He was free to roam and FELT UNFETTERED AND ALIVE." (Caps mine, of couse.) Now, in my entire life, I've only heard those four words used together in one place and I believe you all know where that is. My only conclusion is that Mr. Halperin is a big Joni fan who happens to like including some favorite song lyrics in his books or I've just discovered a very rare coincidence. Then again, with the knowledge that some of you folks have out there, someone will probably tell me they're already aware of this or that Mr. Halperin is a member of this list; it wouldn't surprise me. The book, incidently, is pretty good although I feel the writing is kind of stiff, a bit mechanical, reads more like a text book than a biography. But there is a great deal of interesting information from people who knew Taylor throughout his life and, of course, a fair amount of reference to Joni including a chapter entitled, "Joni Mitchell, the Woman He Loved Too Much." Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:35:21 -0800 From: cul heath Subject: re: mproving on "Clouds" - some more thoughts hey, Catherine, from: Catherine McKay Having read others' reactions to Bob M's musings on "Clouds" and whether or not the order of songs could have been different, and whether or not "Just like me" might more appropriately belong, I went away and thought about this and almost turned the computer on last night to post something else, but thought better of it and decided maybe sleep was needed. So now I've had a chance to think it over and give "Clouds" another listen or two and I've changed my mind. And a good thing too - minds, like clothes, should be changed and cleaned frequently. That whole piece was one of the best things I've ever read on the list. Thanx for that :) cul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 01:31:46 -0400 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: hissing, yet again Listening to HOSL for the past few days and, yet again, I am so smitten. One of the wonderful things about Joni is that I discover new things all the time in her work. The songs on HOSL about various women -- so complex are the characterizations and the stories. Far from any standard feminist POV. Key line, I think: "It's the lady's choice." And Harry's House -- I finally understand this is about HARRY -- not the wife. (It's only taken me almost 30 years.) His reverie _ Centerpiece -- is not that of a man looking at his wife as a decorative accessory, but a sad reflection on what he thought was going to be a gilded future now turned into fool's gold. "Nothing's any good without you," he says. (A cry of love.) "Nothing's any good," she replies. (A cold retort.) Harry is the victim here. What a clear eye she has, Ms. Mitchell. No stock characters here. No easy targets. No cheap shots. There's so much on this record. So much. Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:58:33 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Improving on "Clouds" - some more thoughts Great stuff catherine...song cycles...a concept that is hardly present these days even among my favorite artists...i love a good concept album...i love albums as a journey e...i resist the whole single download thing because of my love for the song cycle album...thanks for reminding me why catherine... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 01:43:25 EST From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's choccolate cake I was at the Atlanta concert on Joni's birthday in 1998. A group of us were fortunate enough to meet her at the hotel lounge afterward. I was the last one in the group to talk with her. I was sitting next to her on the sofa, when, I think it was Larry, offered her a piece of cake. I don't remember if she offered me a piece or if Larry did, I was still in awe of having her speak to me like an old friend. Anyway, I took just a little bite of the rich, dark chocolate cake. The rest of the piece came home with me to Florida and is still in my freezer. I just went to check on it in it's plastic wrap and tupperware home. It's a little bit stale but surprisingly, still moist. I don't think I'd get much for it on eBay but it's very precious to me. Love to everyone, Pearl in Hollywood, Florida - ------------------------------ Hey Pearl, Gald you confirmed this. I knew someone spoke of eating some of her cake in the bar. Dragging it home reminds me of those old ladies in Wolfies Star Corner on South Beach and how I would watch them order more rolls and then dump in their purse along with all of the sweet-n-low packets on the table:~) It's great to see you post. You were missed at Joni Fest By everyone. Hope all is well. Are you going to the Joni Tribute on Krome on Nov.22, David won't go but I may drive over alone. Take care, Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 02:01:21 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: November 12 1994: Turbulent Indigo debuts at its #47 peak on the US charts. - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 02:01:21 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: November 12 On November 12 the following article was published: 2002: "Joni Mitchell says new album will be her last" - Reuters (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=964 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #351 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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