From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #334 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, October 26 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 334 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Equality / Crosby Interview / presentation ["G'n H" ] Re: WOHAM [Bobsart48@aol.com] Joni's muse ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: crosby, nash and f*cking Jewel ["kakki" ] VG-8 Sale with Joni Tunings and Ram Card [Michael Paz ] Re: crosby, nash and f*cking Jewel [Murphycopy@aol.com] Joni on SBS, Australia ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Today in History: October 26 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: October 26 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] JM on Australian TV - sky bound [John Low ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:32:29 +0300 From: "G'n H" Subject: Equality / Crosby Interview / presentation Thank you Bob, Mags and Brei very much for your supporting letters. As I wrote before, I think this is an important issue and Joni has done an opening line to discuss more about it. I hope everyone that has an opinion about this could write to the forum so everybody can read it. Okay, my "lurking habitus" seems to disturb.. :) Does is goes like: Hello, I'm G'n H and I'm a Joniholic... I've been visiting to the forum every now and then for several months now, but I don't consider myself as an active forum member. Though I try to read the mails and the library links as often as possible. Beeing a sing&songwriter myself, Joni has been the most important influence on me. I found my way to the forum when searching inromation about Joni Mitchell. It's great to have a forum like this. It just a one good example about how strong influence Joni has had for so many people. Peace and blessings, G'n H Subject: Re: Crosby Interview with Joni Content NJC Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 17:44:57 EDT I thought you did a wonderful job with the English, I understood you very clearly. Was this your first post here? Please take a moment to tell us about yourself if you like. Bob - ---------------------------------------------- fabulous post....I love it and understand every word and inuendo. thanks for being so courageous and posting what i feel too. welcome to the list, if in fact, you are new, please feel free to introduce yourself, and tell us a bit about you and how you found us. As my best beloved husband says... welcome home. all the best to you, Mags and Brei - ----Original Message Follows---- G'n H wrote: I find this subject very important. I hope I manage to spell my thoughts even with my bad English. I don't find Joni beeing ungrateful when she criticizes drawbacks of the music business and the way she is beeing treated in it. (Personally I think getting hurt for such distinctions like "the best female sing&songwriter.." among all different drawbacks is justifiable). I think there are lots of reasons for women to become bitter in this world. Only thing that holds the feeling to ravel out is selfishness: we all know bitter mind just poisons it's carrier's life. I believe Joni is very aware of that. But she is also very eager for life and she has always had the certain sparkle. She wants a good life in sequel as well. Men are much easier allowed to be arrogant, but women mostly become punished and are returned to their places and roles pretty fast, if they rise with too strong opinions. I think this is something Joni just can't swallow without coughing. She has used to express her thoughts, and she's a person of enthusiasm. She also knows too well that she's a brilliant artist. There are lots of women who find this subject too painful to discuss about it. It's also true that it is easy to subdue such opinions 'couse it smells too feministic (and that word has suffered a bad inflation). Still the problem doesn't disappear. I find Joni very brave in beeing open with her opinions. Who else would have courage to open the line singing "Let me speak, let me spit out my bitterness." In it's concentrated message it's killing me every time I hear it. How could she write such a strong song without having ever felt bitterness that incising? She definetely has her reasons, but she's also enjoying her every-day champagne, paintings and beautiful relationships. And she's still enjoying of life. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:48:20 +0200 From: "Paul Mepschen" Subject: crosby, nash and f*cking Jewel I have never met David Crosby but I believe he's a prick--- on the other hand, what would you do if you were walking through Dublin and someone else walks up to you only because you were in a famous, be it somewhat mediocre folk-rock band once. But that is not my point. My point is that when I was watching WOHAM I was annoyed not by David Crosby -- who at least has a kind of dignified respect for Joni -- but with Nash. I think he is a mediocre prick. I couldn't get over how much of an ass he is. He can't stop talking about Joni as if she's his little girl. He keeps treating her like this precious little thing. It is the kind of subtle sexism that is typical of many men who think they are oh-so-liber, but in fact keep viewing women as precious little things, as the weaker sex. Didn't Joni say that Nash needed a 'more traditional kind of woman'. Bluh! And then the fact that he actually thinks himself to be her artistic peer.... "......two very creative people......." What I will never understand is why Joni sucks up to men who are such obvious sexist bastards. Dylan, Nash. While she is being a complete bitch to other female artists. 'I've been with the boys all my life' she says. Yep, but where have the boys been? Then again -- I think Jewel is bag of potatoes, intellectually. I think her work sucks and I DO understand that Joni is frustrated when Jewel was compared to her. 'the new Joni' my ass. Paul of the Netherlands ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:18:19 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Warm and cold cords Hi Ya'll, In Joni's song "My Old Man" she says, "he's the warmest chord I ever heard, play that warm chord, play and stay baby." I love that line!!! It got me thinking about which chords are warm and which are cold. I was thinking Amaj7 is a pretty warm chord... it starts Anita Baker's song "Sweet Love." Fmaj7 without the pointer down sounds like a cold chord, but I don't know its name. So what chords do ya'll think are warm and cold? Love and peace, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:24:57 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Woodstock on piano kate@katebennett.com wrote: thanks ya'll i sent this info to my friend who might play woodstock at our joni tribute...i appreciate all the help! xxoo kate OK - also for her info, Kate, the arrangement is described as "electric piano arranged for guitar" . It is written entirely on the treble clef (that's what I think they mean by 'arranged for guitar', since the notes look spot on for the piano), and as I noted earlier, is in E minor. Amazingly, the tuning for the guitar (the arrangement is also tabbed, and looks very difficult to play) is Db75545. The tab, in that tuning, results in the song being played in Eb minor ! Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:40:40 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Emmylou tickets for tonight I have two extra tickets (unfortunately in the cheap seats) for tonight's Emmylou concert at Carnegie Hall. The good news is the price is right ($0) so if you would rather be in the building than not in the building, send me an e-mail reply with your number and I will give you a call (first come, first served). (My friend - a big Emmylou fan - had to have emergency surgery and can't go ). Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:19:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Woodstock on piano --- Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: the arrangement is > described as "electric piano > arranged for guitar" . It is written entirely on the > treble clef (that's what > I think they mean by 'arranged for guitar', since > the notes look spot on for > the piano), and as I noted earlier, is in E minor. > > Amazingly, the tuning for the guitar (the > arrangement is also tabbed, and > looks very difficult to play) is Db75545. The tab, > in that tuning, results in the > song being played in Eb minor ! After you mentioned about it being played on all the black keys and in Eb minor, I played around with it on the keyboard last night - and it works, not that I'm that great on piano (took lessons from age 7-12, that's a loooong time ago!) I put the keyboard in "funk electric piano" and it sounded kind of cool. There's a couple of places where you play A-natural or C, but the rest can all be done on black keys. Note to Kate - the arrangement I sent you is the one that pretty much sucks - I totally forgot I had the Hits and Misses songbooks too and that Woodstock is in one of those. D'oh! P.S. to Bobsart - Best wishes to your friend in his surgery. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:25:28 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: WOHAM Ash wrote Nash and Crosby etc were saying her life was now COMPLETE and OVER???? ....!!!! I watched this again last night on DVD. I believe that was one of the critics (there were at least 3 of them quoted - Stephen Holden from the NY Times, Bill Flanagan from MTV and a classical music critic whose name and org escape me for the moment). anyway, the critic (It sounded like Flanagan ?)said that in having discovered her lost daughter and grandchildren, that in a way her life's work had sort of become complete. I found that statement rang true to me. I did not see it as necessarily implying that she was finished - simply that she was entitled to feel that her life was complete, even if she stopped now, with the pieces all in place - including one of the pieces that had fueled her art. What a nice place to arrive at (and that shot of Joni, her daughter and her granddaughter - 3 generations of women - what a beautiful photo !) Graham Nash seemed to make out that Joni was mad..ie her going into a trance for hours....being there but not being there .....( I do that all the time at work!).....maybe that was my interpretation of what he said, he seemed like a jaded/spurned lover! Well, I feel I must demur here. Graham Nash may have been spurned, but I saw absolutely nothing jaded (or bitter) about his comments. In fact, he made the remarks you quote with the comment "it was a wonderful thing to witness", and I believe that his wonderment was genuine. The range of his comments spanned "I'll never forget that night - ever - I had never seen or heard such a creature - beautiful woman - I fell in love with her right then" (quite an admission 35 years hence) to the sadness he confessed to when Joni wrote him that "if you squeeze sand too tightly, it will run through your fingers" - her way of saying goodbye to him. He also presented her Hall of Fame trophy to her in the PWWAM video. Apropos of this, and the thread about David Crosby, I agree that we all have our moments. Still let us not confuse intelligence and perspicacity with niceness. I think Crosby is a smart guy and a sharp observer, who is generally intellectually honest (except perhaps when evaluating himself as a person - "he would have been nice to everybody if he had been dealt Joni's gifts ? But since he was only dealt his own gifts, he's mean to everbody ?"). ;-) Don't we all slip up at least a little in this area ? Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:29:14 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Joni's muse Thanks lucy & rosie for your thoughts...i think joni's state when she was writing blue is a once in a lifetime occurance (duh) ...you just can't live like that for very long...and I understand to a point of how she may have been feeling then...it is those deepest darkest places that sometimes bring us to a state of grace & if we are a musician then sometimes that grace is evident in the music (such as blue)...in my own experience, these times have driven me to create to find healing & hope for myself, it is as if the songwriting muse is a spiritual force that I go to for help...& I understand that transparency she speaks of, & of hearing artifice in every nuance of someone's voice...it is an unpleasant place because who among us want someone seeing through us like that? Being the observer is one place that a songwriter can go to create & some do it very well especially if they have an emotional connection to the one they are observing - then the song can still be deeply emotional... I hear what you are saying lucy...joni seems to have moved in the direction of the cerebral & I know many love those writings because they are truly brilliant in their meanings & word choice...& perhaps she got tired of writing in her own blood because of all the pain involved...or perhaps the pain dissapated & she went on to other methods... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:39:09 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: crosby, nash and f*cking Jewel Paul - I got a kick out of your post ;-) you wrote regarding Nash: " He can't stop talking about Joni as if she's his little girl. He keeps treating her like this precious little thing. It is the kind of subtle sexism that is typical of many men who think they are oh-so-liber, but in fact keep viewing women as precious little things, as the weaker sex. Didn't Joni say that Nash needed a 'more traditional kind of woman'. Bluh!" I'm not so sure about that. I've seen Nash in a number of concerts the past few years, have talked to him in person about Joni, and have seen him give interviews for years where he always mentions her in the most glowing and almost worshipful terms. At every show he has talked about her either as "the love of his life" or the "greatest" and dedicates a song or two to her. He seems sincerely hung up on her and still carrying a torch. He is not her artistic peer in music, but he is a very creative man and has achieved some renown in the field of photography. Because he was part of her life, he is always going to be asked about her. When that happens he is always gracious and classy. Somehow I think that is a better way to respond about an old friend in a public forum than perhaps the way Crosby has responded on occasion. Then again, I recall Joni saying some stuff about Crosby in public forums that jab at him, too! Kakki (choking and sneezing in smoke-filled SoCal where brushfire season has begun) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:05:11 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: VG-8 Sale with Joni Tunings and Ram Card I am going to sell one of the VG-8's that I have if anyone on this list is interested. I want $500 for it and will throw in a $100 ram card to expand the memory and load them up with cool sounds of your choice. I am also thinking of selling my Roland Ready (which means it has a GK2A pick up to talk to the VG-8 already built in) Fender American Strat (Black). The guitar is very rare cause they only made them for a short while. Now they only make the Mexican ones and of course they are not as good. The original retail of this guitar was $1400.00 and I am selling it for $800. Pics on this link scroll down ( http://www.jmdl.com/jonifest/jf990904.cfm ). If you want the cheapest way to go with the VG-8 you can get a Mexican Roland Ready Strat for around $500 at most major guitar retailers. Write me privately if you are interested in getting into the world of open tunings with NO retuning. Best Michael ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:31:02 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: DC & JM While I don't excuse or deny anyone's terrible experience with Croz I can attest to some wonderful & generous things he has done for others....I know he is far from perfect & from what I understand he acknowledges that about himself with the same brutal honesty he speaks of others... I also understand that he has to take lots of meds to keep his liver working & can't imagine what it must feel like to be inside his skin... On the other hand it is truly wonderful to hear all the stories of how gracious & open joni has been to people approaching her...perhaps her bitterness only comes out in interviews & she does not carry it around all that much anymore... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:17:42 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: crosby, nash and f*cking Jewel About Nash, Kakki writes: << Because he was part of her life, he is always going to be asked about her. When that happens he is always gracious and classy. Somehow I think that is a better way to respond about an old friend in a public forum than perhaps the way Crosby has responded on occasion. >> I forget who posted the link recently to the Rickie Lee Jones interview, but it was great so thanks! Anyway, it's interesting to read about Nash on Joni so soon after reading that interview because RLJ said something about resenting the fact that she's always asked about Tom Waits, with whom she had a one-year relationship ages ago. She said she didn't think a famous man would get those kinds of questions about a famous woman in his past, but I guess Nash's situation proves her wrong. I think all artists, male and female, must get questions about legendary people they once did the horizontal hula with. I know people are always asking me what Walter Cronkite was really like, anyway. Regarding Crosby --as my dear English grandmother used to say, "Never give an Irishman a second liver." And as far as Jewel goes, doesn't it seem like she has sorta gone away? --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:50:32 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Joni on SBS, Australia Hi Nicholas, Since you posted your question yesterday, I guess you've already discovered the answer. Just for the record, here are the running times of the Joni videos in my library, with versions. 2003 DVD "JM Woman of Heart & Mind" 120 mins. eaglerockent.com 1980 (content) DVD, released 2003 "Shadows & Light" 75 minutes (Shout! Factory release with a new purple cover & "Tour Photo Diary" by Joel Bernstein) 1980 DVD "Shadows & Light" 75 mins (Panorama Music Video under liscense through VidoeArts Music, in Hong Kong, panorama.com.hk) The original cover photo matches the LP and CD: a Joni-powered double exposure from the video footage of Don Alias, his red shirt and cymbal, and Joni's profile. It a way, it's like she put her head on his body, like the Art Nouveau character. VHS "Shadows & Light" about 60 minutes in the USA. I gave mine away but the shorter running time came through cutting all of the skating footage. Strangely they didn't fix the track list, even in the re-release. 1998 VHS (also availble on DVD) "JM: Painting with Words and Music" 99 minutes (Eagle Rock Entertainmnent image-entertainment.com) 1991 VHS (out of print) "JM: Come In From the Cold" 45 minutes (Geffen Home Video) 1984 VHS (looooong out-of-print) "JM: Refuge of the Roads" 60 minutes (Emperor Entertainment AIP Home Video Inc.) Please note that these running times are in US minutes, not the larger, Canadian, metric minutes. Lama, who's participating in the end of Daylight savings time tonight. UK question: Do the Brits have Daylight Savings time in Greenwich or is GMT never altered? You know the whole world looks to Great Britain on this matter and I say, "Well done!" Right! That's it then! Nicholas, long time lurking in Sydney asked, >>Can anyone tell me if the Joni Mitchell program on SBS tonight at 10 is "Woman of Heart and Mind"? Its just being called "Joni Mitchell" , which if it is WOHAM is an insult to the filmmakers.> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 02:13:22 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: October 26 1998: Joni performed in Indianapolis. More info: http://www.jmdl.com/performances/docs/981026.cfm http://jonimitchell.com/RoadAgainIndianapolis1098.html - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 02:13:22 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: October 26 On October 26 the following article was published: 1998: "Rock review, Joni Mitchell at United Center" - Chicago Tribune (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=66 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 00:13:20 -0700 (PDT) From: John Low Subject: JM on Australian TV - sky bound Like my fellow Australians Nicholas and Ash who have already posted on this, I too watched the SBS documentary identified I think as WHAM. A brief reflection - among all the great footage and commentary that was included, the thing that stayed with me most was the remark (and I can't even remember who made it!) that Joni's music was "sky bound". One of the most beautiful and regular sights available to me where I live is that of a flock of white cockatoos sliding down the air and across the deep blue background of the valley. It's a sight I never tire of and usually as I'm watching snatches of music come into my mind, often JM songs. I kept thinking of this after the comment was made and said to myself as the rest of the doco unfolded - yes!!! Best wishes to all, John PS. Great also to see Eric Andersen given the opportunity for some comments. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! 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