From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #321 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, October 13 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 321 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Tea Leaf Prophecy [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: NCBD- Dud? Oui! Oui! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni on others [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Mitchell/Klein era [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re:Klein/Mitchell [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Joni in Time-Life Ultimate 70's collection [=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zu] re:Joni in Time-Life Ultimate 70's collection ["J.David Sapp" ] Joni on others ["Kate Bennett" ] biographies of Joni ["mike pritchard" ] Re: Jackson vs. Joni [BRYAN8847@aol.com] RE: biographies of Joni ["Richard Flynn" ] Joni in Time-Life Ultimate 70's collection ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: biographies of Joni [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni on others [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: do you remember me?? [Michael Paz ] Re: do you remember me?? [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re:All I Want [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Tlog review [Bobsart48@aol.com] Fwd: Mitchell/Klein era [Bobsart48@aol.com] Joni cover on Jazz Sunday Brunch [Shercar80@aol.com] Klein/Joni [Bobsart48@aol.com] Jaco and Joni [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Jaco and Joni [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni cover on Jazz Sunday Brunch [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Same Situation on WOHAM [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: do you remember me?? [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni vs Linda [PassScribe@aol.com] RE: Joni on others ["Kate Bennett" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 07:43:11 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Tea Leaf Prophecy <"Summer's just a sneeze in a long long but that was my world, maybe it was a bubble i don't know...it sure seemed > like everyone was in it with me but isn't that how it is :~} > > re joni, elton & bruce > Relatively speaking, she lacked the common touch > that they both have. < > > i am not sure that i completely understand what you mean by that- > > - i think she had the common touch more than most, writing in her own blood > she spoke of her personal journey & everyone i knew felt she was speaking to > their soul so great is her artistry... > > Kate - I really get the feeling we are closer to agreeing than disagreeing. You may be onto part of our differences here. I think you (and probably your circle of friends) are a member of the relatively small "listening/artistic elite", but that you are too humble to admit it :-) Unfortunately, I lack that virtue ;-) I also completely agree that the extremely high popularity that Joni does enjoy among the cognoscenti stems in no small part from her ability to touch us all with universal points of light and beauty (and darkness and ugliness, too). The elite are more sensitive to that - and to the overall high quality of her art - than the masses, on balance. (There I go with that bell curve thing again) :-) What I was trying to say in terms of overall popularity - as measured in this instance by record sales and attendance at live events (an incomplete measure, I realize) - is that there have been over 100 (maybe even hundreds of) pop music artists who have had more success - and the accompanying statistical 'recognition' - than Joni. (That is, Joni was popular, but not as popular as the greatest of the great should be). This translates into plain old recognition too - I have known many people who did not know who Joni was - and some who had never heard of her (not for long, though ;-) ). I hypothesized that the 'art' of those more popular 'artists' is more accessible and thus less intimidating to the average person, and may make them more approachable as artists to the masses. I think that is part of what I meant by the common touch. To illustrate the other part of what I meant, which goes more to demeanor - I would cite both you and David Crosby. David said on the WOHAM DVD that it was - - even in the old days - intimidating to be a songwriter in Joni's presence - - while you acknowledged that especially now it would make you uncomfortable to have Joni listen to and critique your art. A third example was presented rather nicely by Eric Anderson, who described her, in effect, as being like a Nordic goddess, descending from the mountain tops, wisps of blond hair to the music of Wagner, and all that - until she did a little rocking with the bands she took on (enter Tom Scott, with Joni belting out Raised on Robbery) and showed there was a 'red hot mama' side to her as well. Whether adding yet another dimension to her work made her more or less intimidating, I do not know - but letting her hair down on an artistic level more often (in effect, dumbing down her art) might well have increased her 'popularity'. In this regard, Tiger was arguably never as 'popular' with the masses as John Daly was when Daly won the PGA and the British Open and became the darling of the beer drinking, blue collar Everyman. But there were other ways to measure incontrovertibly Tiger's relative rank as a golfer, and that has helped Tiger's popularity immensely. Joni's had no such luck. Best, Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 10:16:24 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Mitchell/Klein era Bob Muller replied: > > His first appearance was on WTRF, he just played bass But wasn't he sort of the inspiration for that record, too ? And didn't he help put the band together ? And wasn't he involved in the ROTR tour associated with it ? I dunno, Bob M, methinks prechance that you, on some Freudian level, do not want Klein associated with such a good record ;-) > CMIARS contains (4) Klein-Mitchell songs and again he > co-produces and plays several instruments and vocals. Whereas here you take a bit of statistical license by overstating Kleing's contributions to the composition by 33-1/3% :-) Again, subliminal no doubt, but as I recall you are not quite as fond of this record. :-) Bobsart (apologist for Larry Klein now, too) :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 10:28:08 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re:Klein/Mitchell In a message dated 10/11/03 3:00:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: Bob Muller also opined: > You can draw your own conclusions from all of this...I've always contended > that Joni compromised her work by allowing the collaboration from her > then-current spouse, for better or for worse depending on how one views the > 4 Geffen releases. > I agree that playing with your spouse is a tough thing to do - and in Joni's case, I also suspect that you are correct that her work suffered by her having ceded some artistic control to a lesser talent (which would not have happened had they not been married - or, at least, romantically involved). Even if I am wrong, the appearance of that possibility exists - sort of a "conflict of interest' kind of thing. Eventually, Joni fixed that - she eliminated his position as husband, as well as co-writer. Question 1 - if those records had turned out to be Joni's best, do you think Klein would have gotten credit for the improvement, or do you think that people would have just assumed Joni was getting better, and dragged that 'nobody' Klein along for the ride ? Question 2 - if the sex roles were reversed, do you think the answer to Q1 would have been the same ? Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:07:55 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: Re: Joni in Time-Life Ultimate 70's collection Hi Michael, this is probably BBC footage of a special they did on her for the concert she gave in 1974 in London. Very beautiful . I think it's on the video tree as I have a copy of it somewhere. Much Joni Jamie Zoob michael o'malley wrote: I saw a Joni flash on the tube recently - Time-Life's Ultimate 70's collection infomercial. Something like 10 discs of 70's tunes. Curiously, our Joni appears only once, on the 1974 cd, with Help Me. During the infomercial, we are treated to a video snippet of Joni singing this song, she is standing, wearing a long dress, an acoustic guitar around her neck, and her very long, wavy hair falling down her back. Lovely shot. I'd love to see more of this 70's footage, and I wonder, where does it come from? Do we have any video of her 70's concerts besides S&L? - --------------------------------- Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo!Messenger ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 11:49:47 -0500 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: re:Joni in Time-Life Ultimate 70's collection I also saw this - how cool it was to have Joni on TV. And yes it is in circulation as that '74 stuff on the BBC's "Whistle Test" broadcast. JMDL RULES!!!!! peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 13:21:35 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Mitchell/Klein era Subject: RE: Joni on others well i think in ways we are agreeing but my main point is still to say that joni has achieved high recognition among the masses...but it was back in the day when she was younger during her first couple of albums...she was insanely popular & famous but you can't compare record sales from that time with these times...& it wasn't my circle of friends it was everyone in my generation or most of them, it seemed to me, that adored her... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 11:17:25 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Joni on others >i do know that both bob dylan and janis were both craving it, and changed their music to gain it (tho still retaining integrity). im certainly of the opinion that elton john did (just compare the two versions of "goodbye norma jean" and that "other" song about the princess)< good point, i don't think joni was ever comfortable with being a celebrity...she did things contrary to the stuff you need to do to sell records- record, release, tour...i think she was too much of an solitary 'artist' to crave that kind of attention... as to that elton john song (norma jean) i have always felt it was a blatant rip off to begin with- listen to jackson browne's 'song for adam'- subject matter, melody & lyrics are all very similar... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:40:20 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: biographies of Joni Anybody know anything about "The Joni Mitchell Companion: Four Decades of Commentary (Companion Series)" by Stacy Luftig? And what about the Hinton biography? If I buy Karen O'Brien's book does Hinton's give me something else? And what about 'Turbulent Indigo', a paperback edited by Carol Cuellar? Cheers, mike in barcelona NP Monk - well you needn't ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 14:43:10 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: Jackson vs. Joni A comeback with C&S???? Gosh, I never thought of it that way. She had minor radio hits with LOTC and FTR so I had always thought C&S was just the extension of steady commercial rise. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 14:47:40 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: biographies of Joni The Joni Mitchell Companion is a nice anthology of feature stories and interviews. Well worth having. (Kind of Like having the JMDL library between soft covers, and hence, easier to read.) In my opinion, to call the Hinton book worthless is being charitable. A mish mash of undigetsed source material, not all of it reliable, and absolutely not insight into the music. Despite its being somewhat pedestrian, the O'Brien is much better. Haven't seen the Cuellar. Does the list share my outrage at how bad the Hinton is? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of mike > pritchard > Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 2:40 PM > To: list > Subject: biographies of Joni > > > Anybody know anything about "The Joni Mitchell Companion: Four Decades of > Commentary (Companion Series)" by Stacy Luftig? > And what about the Hinton biography? If I buy Karen O'Brien's book does > Hinton's give me something else? > And what about 'Turbulent Indigo', a paperback edited by Carol Cuellar? > > Cheers, > mike in barcelona > NP Monk - well you needn't ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:47:16 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Joni in Time-Life Ultimate 70's collection Linda's the bigger star in several ways! She's even on GRACELAND when Paul Simon invented World Music for us. Seriously though, is Joni wearing a pink dress? (If yes, I have a crummy mono dub of the whole thing with an amazingly annoying time counter running the whole way through.) Indoor venue? Michael, if you don't have the 4-VHS JMDL video collection, you need to send me some blanks. All the best, Lama From: "michael o'malley" Time-Life's Ultimate 70's collection infomercial. a video snippet of Joni singing this song, she is standing, wearing a long dress, an acoustic guitar around her neck, and her very long, wavy hair falling down her back. Lovely shot. I'd love to see more of this 70's footage, and I wonder, where does it come from? Do we have any video of her 70's concerts besides S&L? Linda Ronstadt has a song on practically each disc in the series (there's one for each year) - one would easily get the impression that she was the bigger female megastar of that decade. Is this true? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 13:05:15 -0700 (PDT) From: marilyn huggins Subject: do you remember me?? I'm Marilyn who went to 2 jonifests in MA. Haven't been able to go to NY because of health problems. Now I'm in rehab with oxygen 24/7 & waiting to have open heart surgery for a birth defect. Hope everyone out there is fine!!! Got a new laptop so I'm back on line again. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:15:29 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: biographies of Joni ...& it wasn't my circle of friends it was everyone in my generation or > most of them, it seemed to me, that adored her... > OK - maybe it was a bit of the California versus NY thing. Anyway, my daughter Leah is meeting a bunch of new guys that she likes at Oxford - one of them was excited that she was a Joni fan. Touche ! Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:42:41 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: do you remember me?? Hi Marilyn. I rememeber you. You sat in the front for almost the whole day of sets. Sending you out good thoughts and prayers and hope your surgery goes quick and well. Take good care and keep in touch with us. Love Paz > I'm Marilyn who went to 2 jonifests in MA. Haven't been able to go to NY > because of health problems. Now I'm in rehab with oxygen 24/7 & waiting to > have open heart surgery for a birth defect. > > Hope everyone out there is fine!!! Got a new laptop so I'm back on line > again. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:38:29 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: do you remember me?? In a message dated 10/12/03 4:06:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, marilynhuggins@yahoo.com writes: > I'm Marilyn who went to 2 jonifests in MA. Haven't been able to go to NY > because of health problems. Now I'm in rehab with oxygen 24/7 & waiting to > have open heart surgery for a birth defect. > > Hope everyone out there is fine!!! Got a new laptop so I'm back on line > again of course we remember you Marilyn, how could we forget you!!?!? It's so good to hear from you, but at the same token, I'm so sorry to hear about your health problems. It has to be a scary thing to undergo heart surgery. It is just amazing what they can do nowadays. Thank goodness we have these skilled surgeons. God Bless them. If you can, please have someone let us know how you are doing. Wishing you a speedy recovery Marilyn! Lots of hugs, Rose from NJ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:45:14 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re:All I Want I have mentioned the connection between Joni's music and her lyrics as adding a special dimension to her art. Sometimes, the connection is broad - the musical mood seems to capture the lyrical mood. Other times, there are more deliberate, playful moments, such as in The Banquet, when Joni sings "Down where the water skiers gli i i iiiiiiiiiide ." I was listening to All I Want, which is for the most part a very upbeat, hopeful song, with a nod to the evils of petty wars. I get the feeling that Joni was basically in an uplifted mood when she composed this song. I see her moving from joy to sadness, on an emotional see saw - deliberately drawing the see saw analogy as she does so. More interesting, though, is that the music itself see saws during that reference (and, of course, during the other verses when that musical line is perforce copied). I want to talk to you, I want ot shampoo you I want to renew you - again and again Applause, applause - life is our cause When I think of your kisses, my mind see-saws Notice how the musical lines go up, then down, then up, then down..... Bobsart (She's really something, eh ?) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 17:07:36 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Tlog review Bob Muller wrote > I found this Blog review on T'log today, and thought the writer (a huge > Joni fan) put my feelings about this release into a thoughtful review: > > http://www.roadtosurfdom.com/surfdomarchives/000504.php > > Bob > I agree - a very thoughtful review, with which I have no complaint. By way of apology, it was a very agressive (and in some ways couragous) attempt for Joni to take such great songs and re-do them, hoping to find new magic. Ultimately, I agree with you, Bob, and with this reviewer, that T came up short. I wish it had not. I firmly believe that it could have been done successfully. I just agree with you that Mendoza was not the man to help her do it. Not a terrible recording, by any means, as the reviewer notes. Just so much less than it might have been - and in the end, perhaps Last Chance Lost. Bobsart (PS - I still think Joni can get herself back into songwriting shape if she puts her mind, heart, body and soul into it - and I bet she secretly wants to) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 17:11:47 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Mitchell/Klein era Return-path: From: Bobsart48@aol.com Full-name: Bobsart48 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:14:40 EDT Subject: Re: Mitchell/Klein era To: SCJoniGuy@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10712 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.97c-p1 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Bob Muller replied, about the Tiger/Joni analogy > . He might have an excellent round because of her involvement...but what if > in the next tournament she persuades him to let her putt for him. He might > not be able to participate as well on the playing field, though I'm sure he > would get his just rewards after the match. ;~) > > Bob > I love it :-) ! (And, by the way, Bob, I do agree with your analysis that the more influence she ceded to Larry, the less exciting her music became - and when she took it back, the music improved. I was just trying to draw you out a bit on your bias, which you are obviously unabashed about). Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 17:12:39 EDT From: Shercar80@aol.com Subject: Joni cover on Jazz Sunday Brunch Hi all, I was on my way to the gas station when Al Santos of Smooth Jazz 105.9 not only played as promised, but had a few words about a Joni Mitchell song covered by a clarinet player by the name of Richard (Stomolsky?-not sure of pronunciation) and Judy Collins. The song was "For Free." It was beautifully done and Richard's clarinet strains reminded me of Heijera towards the end. I had to pull over to listen. I'm going to email Al as soon as possible to tell him how much I enjoyed the cut. After the song was over, he said that this particular song has played on a regular basis on Sunday Brunch since the late eighties. How wonderful! Joni's music is well represented on the DC jazz scene! Sherelle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 17:12:53 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Klein/Joni Bob Muller replied, about the Tiger/Joni analogy > . He might have an excellent round because of her involvement...but what if > in the next tournament she persuades him to let her putt for him. He might > not be able to participate as well on the playing field, though I'm sure he > would get his just rewards after the match. ;~) > > Bob > I love it :-) ! (And, by the way, Bob, I do agree with your analysis that the more influence she ceded to Larry, the less exciting her music became - and when she took it back, the music improved. I was just trying to draw you out a bit on your bias, which you are obviously unabashed about). Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 17:14:11 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Jaco and Joni Bob Muller replied > > Well, look at the Jaco era. Jaco's contributions to Joni's sound were > incredible and unprecedented in the pop arena. I don't hear Joni feeling > intimidated by him, but rather inspired & satisfied. I think Jaco gets some credit for > those records without taking anything from Joni or creating a sense of > compromise. Then again it might be apples & oranges as they weren't linked > romantically. > > Bob > Interesting comparison, Bob. Within the confines that the Jaco era albums were not super popular, but have stood the test of time in the critical world of the cognoscenti, do you get the feeling that Jaco's role was underappreciated or overappreciated ? For example, among the Joni non-jazz lovers who came to like these records over time, is this collaboration seen mostly as Joni's good taste and artsmanship coming to the fore, by spotting Jaco and adopting him ? Whereas to the alternate jazz aficionados, do you think these records were seen more as Joni taking a ride on the Jaco coaster, enhancing her reputation by claiming turf in an area where she had no real right to make a toehold, much less claim land ? I read an article in the Newark Star Ledger last week, reviewing the history of jazz and jazz greats in the state of NJ. Among those receiving more than a brief bio outline was Wayne Shorter - not a single mention of Joni. She is still very much an outcast in the world of jazz, as far as I can see (which admittedly is not very far). Bobsart (still blown away every time he watches the Shadows and Light DVD by the quality of the musicianship) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 18:28:19 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Jaco and Joni Subject: Re: do you remember me?? --- marilyn huggins wrote: > I'm Marilyn who went to 2 jonifests in MA. Haven't > been able to go to NY because of health problems. > Now I'm in rehab with oxygen 24/7 & waiting to have > open heart surgery for a birth defect. > > Hope everyone out there is fine!!! Got a new laptop > so I'm back on line again. Marilyn, I most certainly do remember you. I met you at Jonifest 2001, tho' I was only there for one day. I'm sorry to hear about your health problems and hope the surgery goes well for you. It's good to hear from you - please stay in touch. Best wishes. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 22:43:03 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni vs Linda << From: "michael o'malley" Subject: Joni in Time-Life Ultimate 70's collection << This is also the first time I've noticed one of Joni's tunes included in a compilation CD set. Rather unusual isn't it? Also interesting to see that Linda Ronstadt has a song on practically each disc in the series (there's one for each year) - one would easily get the impression that she was the bigger female megastar of that decade. Is this true? Michael in Quebec >> Michael: It's funny but, once I got really got into Joni's music (Court & Spark era, then picking up everything before & since) I felt she was one of the greatest singer/songwriters ever to create music; obviously, I still do! I don't know your age but, judging from your question, you're probably younger than I am and not as familiar with Linda Ronstadt's career. Since I've listened to Linda Ronstadt's music from her debut, I've always felt she was a great singer and songstylist but, to my knowledge, has written only one or two songs in the course of over a dozen albums. Granted, she's done a fine job producing excellent versions of tunes written by nearly every other songwriter ever born, including Warren Zevon, Carla Bonoff, the Eagles, Jackson Browne, James Taylor, J. D. Souther... even Johnny Cash and Dolly Parton, among many others. I believe, through the years, she has had considerable success and most people's respect but I don't think she's ever been considered a "female megastar." I wouldn't say she was ever as popular as Madonna or Cher but, once again, she never had the corporate hype that they did or was as agressive in marketing herself. Was she a bigger star than Joni? Yes, maybe during their prime and in terms of "hits" or airplay but, in the long run, Joni will be remembered as the creative influence to many other artists and will have the more dedicated fan base such as this one we're sharing. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 17:44:34 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Joni on others i don't mean to be a pain but truthfully she was big everywhere i went! i lived in the nj/ny area when joni first came onto the scene & everyone i knew there was into her! a few years later i moved to ca & everyone was into her there too... seems to me she was big everywhere at that time during her first couple of albums... cool about your daughter... > OK - maybe it was a bit of the California versus NY thing. Anyway, my daughter Leah is meeting a bunch of new guys that she likes at Oxford - one of them was excited that she was a Joni fan. Touche ! Bobsart < ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #321 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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