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onlyJMDL Digest      Saturday, October 11 2003      Volume 2003 : Number 319



==========

TOPICS and authors in this Digest:
--------
  joni mention.                      ["mack watson-bush" <mack@powercom.net>]
  Re: The Tea Leaf Prophecy, liner notes on  ["J.David Sapp" <davidsapp@peop]
  T'log - B'log                                        [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com]
  a question about the Geffen box set...again      [Warrenkeith91354@aol.com]
  a question about the Geffen box set              [Warrenkeith91354@aol.com]
  Klein & Joni                                         [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com]
  Re: Klein & Joni             ["Sherelle Smith" <sherellesmith@hotmail.com>]
  Re: Klein & Joni                                     [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com]
  Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #311 Now NYC Songwriters  ["ron" <flopit@mweb.co]
  Re: Joni and the other Girls              ["Brenda" <music@soulstreet.net>]
  does it really matter                                  [HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com]
  Re: Study War no More                                  [PassScribe@aol.com]
  Neil Young and altered tuning                   [ash <millsac@bigpond.com>]
  Today in History: October 11                             [ljirvin@jmdl.com]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 07:32:13 -0500
From: "mack watson-bush" <mack@powercom.net>
Subject: joni mention.

Here's one that all should get some enjoyment out of as not only it is
ludicrous but wholly untrue, even to someone that isn't a joniphyte.  Out of
the Sheboygan paper and the writer isn't identified.

     Jackson Browne, the quintessential sensitive Californian
singer-songwriter of the early 70's brings his show to the Riverside Theater
in Milwaukee at 7:30 p.m. on Monday, October 13.
     Only Joni Mitchell and James Taylor ranked alongside Browne in terms of
influence, but neither artist tapped into the post-60's zeitgeist like Browne.
     While the majority of his classic 70's work was unflinchingly personal,
it nevertheless provided a touchstone for a generation of maturing baby
boomers coming to terms with adulthood.  Not only did his introspective,
literate lyrics strike a nerve, but his laid-back folk-rock set the template
for much of the music to come out of California during the 70's.  During the
70's and early 80's, he was at the height of his popularity, as each of his
albums charted in the Top 10.
     Midway through the 80's, Browne made a series of political protest
records which caused his audience to gradually shrink, but when he returned to
introspective songwriting with 1993's 'I'm Alive', he made a modest comeback.



hehehhehehehheh.  I was there at that time and I must have missed most of
that.

mack

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:13:16 -0500
From: "J.David Sapp" <davidsapp@peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: The Tea Leaf Prophecy, liner notes on

<. . .and then:

"She plants her garden in the spring
She does the winter shoveling<


Notice the way this chorus changes to reflect the passage of time and
circumstance:

She plants her garden in the spring
She does the winter shovelling
Tokyo Rose on the radio

///

She plants her garden in the spring
He does the winter shovelling
But summer's just a sneeze
In a long long bad winter cold

///

She plants her garden in the spring
He does the winter shovelling
The three of 'em laughing 'round the radio

///

She plants her garden in the spring
They do the winter shovelling
They sit up late and watch the
Johnny Carson show


peace, david

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:53:34 -0400
From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com
Subject: T'log - B'log

<I was disappointed with Travelogue.>

I found this Blog review on T'log today, and thought the writer (a huge
Joni fan) put my feelings about this release into a thoughtful review:

http://www.roadtosurfdom.com/surfdomarchives/000504.php

Bob

NP: Queen, "Doin' Alright" (Peel Sessions)



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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:19:25 EDT
From: Warrenkeith91354@aol.com
Subject: a question about the Geffen box set...again

Sorry about the misfire...I'm a bit trigger happy lately !  I just want to 
know where the rare photos from the DED and NRH sessions 
are...somebody...anybody ?

Jonily Yours,
Warren Keith

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:14:20 EDT
From: Warrenkeith91354@aol.com
Subject: a question about the Geffen box set



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:52:35 -0400
From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com
Subject: Klein & Joni

<I'm not sure what CD's are involved in the Klein/Mitchell era.

It's sort of an interesting bell curve...the peak of the "Klein/Mitchell
era" was DED/CMIARS. His first appearance was on WTRF, he just played bass
(prior to teaming up with Joni he was the bassist in jazz trumpeter Freddie
Hubbard's band), by DED he had (2) co-writing credits (Fiction, Tax Free)
was a co-producer, and played bass, percussion, keyboards, and synths, and
contributed vocals. CMIARS contains (4) Klein-Mitchell songs and again he
co-produces and plays several instruments and vocals. NRH (called by many
as a return to form for Joni) only features (1) Klein-Mitchell song, and he
continues co-production and multi-instruments. By the Grammy-award winning
TI, there are no more song collaborations, and his role is reduced to bass
& co-producer.

You can draw your own conclusions from all of this...I've always contended
that Joni compromised her work by allowing the collaboration from her
then-current spouse, for better or for worse depending on how one views the
4 Geffen releases.

Bob

NP: Laura Love, "I Am Wondering" (live on KINK radio)



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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:41:34 +0000
From: "Sherelle Smith" <sherellesmith@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Klein & Joni

You are absolutely right Bob! I can see the curve. Unfortunately, I have not 
had the opportunity to hear many if any songs from this era so it's hard for 
me to compare. My relationship with Joni's music had been temporarily 
severed. I feel that I discovered her at a great time in 1975 with Court and 
Spark and Hissing of Summer Lawns. Speaking to someone who hasn't heard 
these albums yet, what exactly was Larry Klein's role musically in these 
songs? Did he write the music or did he share those duties with Joni? Are 
the lyrics different from say, Court and Spark or Hissing? Thanks.

Sherelle


>From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com
>To: "Sherelle Smith" <sherellesmith@hotmail.com>
>CC: catiefinn@yahoo.com, joni@smoe.org, owner-joni@jmdl.com
>Subject: Klein & Joni
>Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:52:35 -0400
>
>
><I'm not sure what CD's are involved in the Klein/Mitchell era.
>
>It's sort of an interesting bell curve...the peak of the "Klein/Mitchell
>era" was DED/CMIARS. His first appearance was on WTRF, he just played bass
>(prior to teaming up with Joni he was the bassist in jazz trumpeter Freddie
>Hubbard's band), by DED he had (2) co-writing credits (Fiction, Tax Free)
>was a co-producer, and played bass, percussion, keyboards, and synths, and
>contributed vocals. CMIARS contains (4) Klein-Mitchell songs and again he
>co-produces and plays several instruments and vocals. NRH (called by many
>as a return to form for Joni) only features (1) Klein-Mitchell song, and he
>continues co-production and multi-instruments. By the Grammy-award winning
>TI, there are no more song collaborations, and his role is reduced to bass
>& co-producer.
>
>You can draw your own conclusions from all of this...I've always contended
>that Joni compromised her work by allowing the collaboration from her
>then-current spouse, for better or for worse depending on how one views the
>4 Geffen releases.
>
>Bob
>
>NP: Laura Love, "I Am Wondering" (live on KINK radio)
>
>
>
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https://broadband.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:05:32 -0400
From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com
Subject: Re: Klein & Joni

<what exactly was Larry Klein's role musically in these
songs? Did he write the music or did he share those duties with Joni?>

Strictly from a songwriting point of view, my understanding is that he
wrote the music and she wrote the words. In the 1985 Rock Master Class
interview/recording, she talks about their collaboration and how it was
different for her to put words to his short musical phrasings in Tax Free &
Fiction. Typically her musical lines run much longer and are much more
multi-syllabic (even after Bob Sartorius makes his cuts). ;~)

<Are
the lyrics different from say, Court and Spark or Hissing?>

Well, the style is certainly different...look first at the brevity in
"Fiction":

I can't decide
I don't know
Which way to go
The options multiply
The choices grow
Which way to go?
What should I buy?
What should I be?
Which way to go?

And then look at the stanza length in a song from Hissing:

Rousseau walks on trumpet paths
Safaris to the heart of all that jazz
Through I-bars and girders, through wires and pipes
The mathematic circuits of the modern nights
Through huts through Harlem through jails and gospel pews
Through the class on Park and the trash on Vine
Through Europe and the deep deep heart of Dixie blue
Through savage progress cuts the jungle line

And it's pretty easy to see that lyrically the 70's songs are typically
going to be more dense. You might say that she's given a larger canvas in
which to paint. Of course this is not to say that one is BETTER than the
other, only that the styles are different. A good writer can say just as
much with a few words as they can with many, sort of a Hemingway vs.
Faulkner argument.

Hope that gives you some idea...it is tricky to get a grasp on the
difference without being familiar with the songs I'm sure.

Bob

NP: The Chieftains, "Rattlin' Roarin' Willie"




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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:29:18 +0200
From: "ron" <flopit@mweb.co.za>
Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #311 Now NYC Songwriters

hi



            >>>>paul wrote
> To tell you the truth, I think none of the eighties women songwriters were
> in Joni's league, except maybe Michelle Shocked, who came close.

& whats this past tense thing??? 'chelle is still alive & well & writing.
cranked out 30 songs in 30 days in 99/2000(???) for a series of shows -
together with fiachna of hothouse flowers. well, ok there were a couple duds
amongst them, but there were some good 'uns as well:

    "a burden shared, is only half a trouble
        i knew you'd care, i knew you'd understand
    a burden shared, is only half a trouble,
        joy thats shared, is joy made double"

well you really have to hear it to get it - its a stunner with all of
'chelles emotional strength & power........

& the re released "short sharp shocked" is great as well - a whole disc full
of previously unreleased tracks, indluding her mind blowing acapella "ballad
of penny evans" and a wonderful live version of "memories of east texas"
which is a terrific example of "less is more" - so deceptively simple, yet
so haunting and provocative - michelle at the top of her game!!


ron
no - lisa loeb - the way it really is

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 17:17:31 -0700
From: "Brenda" <music@soulstreet.net>
Subject: Re: Joni and the other Girls

On 6 Oct 2003 at 0:04, StephenToogood wrote:

> Yes it does amaze me how out of touch Joni is with so much good music.
> I mean she grumbles when hers doesn't get much attention.
> 
> I also feel sorry for her because I'm sure it must have been really
> hard. I mean she accomplished a lot as and for a woman in the industry
> and many woman less talented than her kick her ass when it comes to
> record sales. Alanis for example: 'Jagged Little Pill' has sold a
> ridiculous amount. Yes it has a lot of emotion in it and yeah it's
> pretty good but it sure as hell has proved to be less timeless! For me
> anyway because I rarely listen to it now. Also Alanis didn't put as
> much into that record as Joni puts into hers. Of course Joni is like a
> miracle and other artist can't help that.

I'm not sure that it's particularly helpful to compare Joni's sales with anyone who has 
put out a successful record since Michael Jackson's "Thriller" sold 40 million during 
it's chart dominance.  Music was catapulted from the radio and live shows to 
television in a big way, 24 hours a day.  It changed everything.  Combine that with 
the corporatizaiton of labels (the desire for greater returns on every signing and 
every release) and the consolidation of radio and you have an atmosphere where 
selling a million records is a disappointment - unlike the 70's when a platinum record 
was a celebration.

I don't think it's outrageous to suppose that if "Court & Spark" had its initial release 
today with "Help Me" being a big hit at radio and a young, beautiful California-kissed 
Joni seducing the audience in a video, that she would have a multi-platinum 
success.

Just my late to the thread $.02.

B

np: Samite - "Mwatu"
- --------------------------------------------
"Radio has no future" - Lord Kelvin, 1897

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:24:59 EDT
From: HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com
Subject: does it really matter

does it really matter if you come now or if you come later.

ever wonder if joni, or any artist for that matter, writes not so much about 
a particular person place or thing in their own experience of life, but about 
life in general?  hmmmmmm

Joni is IT, IMO, #1, no one even comes close.
janis ian is # 2
i like cris williamson and holly and dar and tori and ani and many natalie 
and many more, oh and bob and the thompsons and elvis costello, simon and gar, 
and i think it is a prerequisit that i do this but heck i even like melissa 
ethridge.  I'm not sayin lump em all in a group after joni and janis ( oh and 
janis j ahhhhhhh, and etta, and oh goodness i could go on forever) but i have to 
face the truth that joni is in a class by herself.  sigh, i hope the universe 
realizes this someday.  if they don't come now you know they're gonna come 
later.   heck i hope people don't eat me alive for this, there is SOME  humore in 
my remarks.  but if i'm gonna be eaten alive ( no pun intended)  this a is a 
good reason to me

which person at the party am i?
I'd probably be friendly and watching it from the wings.

another unnotable note
peace
 hoops

NP: a cd i made of all the supposed "duds" mentioned... and i'm not hearing a 
thud

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:30:18 EDT
From: PassScribe@aol.com
Subject: Re: Study War no More

<< From: "Marianne Rizzo" <treegreen1@hotmail.com>
Subject: Tea Leaf Prophecy

>Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:16:09 -0400
>From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com
>Subject: Re: The Tea Leaf Prophecy, liner notes on

captive on the carousel of time
Love,
Marianne

ps.  "Study war no more"   Doesn't this come from the anti war song. . ."I 
ain't gonna study war no more".. .
         something like that?
 >>
Marianne:
    I don't know where it originated from but I've heard that line (or a 
similar one) before; it appears in the song, "Lysistrata", on Todd Rundgren's 1982 
Utopia album, Swing to the Right. From what I understand, the song documents 
a (supposedly) true story about wives of soldiers who refused to have sex with 
their husbands unless the men gave up their aspirations of war and fighting. 
    Just another bit of trivia which may or may not apply...

    Kenny B

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 15:29:44 +1000
From: ash <millsac@bigpond.com>
Subject: Neil Young and altered tuning

Tasmanian Advocate newspaper dated Saturday 11th October 2003

as follows.....

"Then there's the news Neil Young is bringing his original band Crazy Horse, Down Under (Australia), dubbed the most anticipated tour of the DECADE.

Young and his group will preform three shows in Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne towards the end of November"

yipeee in time for  a post birthday present?

oh yes some one called Prince is also coming here.....he seems to be back calling himself that name, plus Robbie Williams with Duran Duran as support, tickets are over a $100 Australian.


AND


From our local lending library....
a sort of coffee table sized book

'GUITAR'
A complete guide for the player by Thunder Bay Press (USA) 2002
318 pages

on pages 134 and 135

Altered tuning under the heading of

Playing-Acoustic

EADGBE
    or
EAC#GBE
is a Joni  photo (Isle of Wight 1970, yellow dress) 5"x 4"

with the Clouds album (also pictured) opposite

and a caption

"to the unique jazz-cum-folk of Joni Mitchell..."

and 2 exercises in this type of guitar playing

I just thought I would add this!


In a book called (2000?) in the same Library section
"Where are they now?"
 by a British author.
This is a book about one hit wonders...he is very dismissive of the group Sparks and seemed more concerned with dead people, as a lot of one hit wonders after 15 mins of fame, seem to go bankrupt, do drugs and die...did I read all this in Hollywood Babylon books before?

Joni has a small entry in the book

Joni is hinted at as having retired?
but at the back is a mention of the British Joni Fan club.

back to lurking
Ash

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 02:32:17 -0400
From: ljirvin@jmdl.com
Subject: Today in History: October 11

1967: Joni, along with Cynthia Gooding, is featured from 8:30 to 9:30 PM on New York City's WKCR radio "Folk Song '67" program.
     
- ----
For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances,
consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances:
http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html

------------------------------

End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #319
*********************************

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