From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #316 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, October 8 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 316 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni is a miracle ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: NCBD- Dud? Oui! Oui! [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Re: WHICH PERSON AT THE PARTY ARE YOU?? [KJHSF@aol.com] Re: Joni on others [Catherine Finn ] Re: WHICH PERSON AT THE PARTY ARE YOU?? ["StephenToogood" ] Re: NCBD- Dud? Oui! Oui! ["StephenToogood" ] Re: Joni is a miracle [Jerry Notaro ] Re: WHICH PERSON AT THE PARTY ARE YOU?? ["StephenToogood" ] urgent message to the list ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: NCBD- Dud? Oui! Oui! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Fw: urgent message to the list (for Aol members) [Emiliano Subject: Joni is a miracle >To lots of people out there, Tracy Chapman and Suzanne Vega are just one-hit-wonders.... And where are they now?.< i recently saw tracy on her tour & i'd never call her a one hit wonder...as to where she is now, well she is writing, recording & touring...i wouldn't have been at her show if i hadn't been asked to review it however...but she put on an excellent show--just before her encore she kicked 'give me one reason' into an amazing r&b groove & she sang like aretha...then the encore of 'proud mary' & 'change is gonna come'... eastmountainsouth was her opener... i think its deceptive to judge an artists vitality or longevity by whether you are hearing them on the radio or whether they have 'hits'... many songwriters who were once in the spotlight are still out there writing & playing & making a good living...(by the look of her tour busses tracy is making a very good living!) ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:37:42 EDT From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: RE: NCBD- Dud? Oui! Oui! Bob writes; I don't see anything in those lyrics that is overly profound. She did a much better job of tackling that issue with one line from Chinese Cafe: - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - --------------------------------------------- Must I surrender With grace The things I loved when I was younger (Sweet embrace) Must I remember your face So well What do I do here with this hunger I always found this verse to be very emontional, as I feel she one more time sings out the pain of giving up Kelly Dale and even after so many years she can still remember that little face so well. It's heartbreaking For me it stirs up the pain of will she ever see that baby again, probably the biggest hunger she ever had. Now that's something profound about growing older. Peace Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:59:54 EDT From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: WHICH PERSON AT THE PARTY ARE YOU?? In a message dated 10/7/2003 12:09:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Cactustree78@aol.com writes: so I pose the question...Which person at the party are you?? People's Parties is an amazing little glimpse into Joni's psyche, and brilliant because it's one of those situations we can all relate to. The interesting thing is that I could see myself as any one of the various people, depending on my mood or degree of comfort or discomfort, from Jack behind his joker to being in a frightened silence thinking I don't understand. And then, we are treated to that gorgeous bridge going into "the same situation..." Ken H ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:18:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine Finn Subject: Re: Joni on others Okay. I admit to both hyperbole and ignorance on the Alanis bashing front. I have never actually listened to one of her albums and only know her "hits," which haven't impressed me. My point was I can see why Joni is annoyed with be compared with other female songwriters just because she's female. To be fair, it isn't just the women who don't compare. I don't think there are many good songwriters, male or female, on mainstream radio. Tori Amos is right up there, and I think it is so awesome that she only listens to Joni and Led Zepplin. I think Led Zepplin has more in common with Joni than any of the "girls with guitars" because of their harmonic complexity and musical innovation. I really liked Counting Crowes first album ("step out the front door like a ghost into a fog where no one notices the contrast of white on white" is up there with the great first lines of pop histery) but didn't follow their career after that, and really hate their cover of BYT. Other than that, not many new artists can move me like Joni or Dylan or Lennon/McCartney or Paul Simon. I don't know what it was about the cultural/artistic/business climate of the 60s, but it doesn't seem like anyone with real artistry has cracked the "popular" mainstream the way they did back then. Of course, I came of age in the 80s, which was a fairly low ebb for accoustic singer/songwriters. I thought the Lilith Fair/girls with guitars trend was the start of something, but it just sort of faded away and left us with Clay and Ruben. Just my .017 euros. ;-) c AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 06/10/2003 21:59:43 GMT Daylight Time, Rusty10113@aol.com writes: << gotta agree that comparitively speaking, Alanis pales vs. Joni, but I don't really even consider Alanis a confessional artist... but I love the way she tackles spiritual issues and claims her own self worth... >> One thing Alanis has done that Joni hasn't: Played God on screen :-) Azeem in London Just watched Dogma on telly... The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:48:12 +0100 From: "StephenToogood" Subject: Re: WHICH PERSON AT THE PARTY ARE YOU?? "...me and my frightened silence thinking I don't understand" or if I've been drinking "standing in the centre"! ************** Steve T amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk "Red is autumn green is summer Greens are turning and the sand" - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 5:07 AM Subject: WHICH PERSON AT THE PARTY ARE YOU?? > Hello All :P > > I was listening to C & S this weekend ...I started to think about how I really relate to the line in Peoples Parties > "Some are standing in the centre Giving to get something" so I pose the question...Which person at the party are you?? I casted all of my friedns at the party also...Its amazing hpw I could fit each one of them there ...Anyway im interested to see what you all say...I hope you are having a nice day enjoying the Autum if you are on the east cost..much love to all ***kevin*** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:52:17 +0100 From: "StephenToogood" Subject: Re: Joni is a miracle Yes and the Suzanne Vega best of is packed with great songs from 85 to the present day. Also Joni only had one hit single in the uk; 'Big Yellow Taxi' which didn't even make top 10 (just missed - 11) and we know she has done so much more. ************** Steve T amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk "Red is autumn green is summer Greens are turning and the sand" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Bennett" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 9:05 AM Subject: Joni is a miracle > >To lots of people out there, Tracy Chapman and Suzanne Vega are just > one-hit-wonders.... > And where are they now?.< > > i recently saw tracy on her tour & i'd never call her a one hit wonder...as > to where she is now, well she is writing, recording & touring...i wouldn't > have been at her show if i hadn't been asked to review it however...but she > put on an excellent show--just before her encore she kicked 'give me one > reason' into an amazing r&b groove & she sang like aretha...then the encore > of 'proud mary' & 'change is gonna come'... eastmountainsouth was her > opener... > > i think its deceptive to judge an artists vitality or longevity by whether > you are hearing them on the radio or whether they have 'hits'... many > songwriters who were once in the spotlight are still out there writing & > playing & making a good living...(by the look of her tour busses tracy is > making a very good living!) > > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett > www.katebennett.com > sponsored by Polysonics > Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: > http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html > ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:57:00 +0100 From: "StephenToogood" Subject: Re: NCBD- Dud? Oui! Oui! > Bob writes; > I don't see anything in those lyrics that is overly profound. She did a much > better job of tackling that issue with one line from Chinese Cafe: Well Joni was only in her late 30's when she wrote 'Chinese Cafe'. I hope when I'm that age I'm not considered 'over the hill' where as 'Nothing Can Be Done' she wrote nearing her 50's - not that I'm saying your 'over the hill' then but I think you would consider yourself an 'older' person. Oh no I hope no one takes this the wrong way! ************** Steve T amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk "Red is autumn green is summer Greens are turning and the sand" - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 12:37 PM Subject: RE: NCBD- Dud? Oui! Oui! > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- > --------------------------------------------- > Must I surrender > With grace > The things I loved when I was younger > (Sweet embrace) > Must I remember your face > So well > What do I do here with this hunger > > > I always found this verse to be very emontional, as I feel she one more > time sings out the pain of giving up Kelly Dale and even after so many years she > can still remember that little face so well. It's heartbreaking For me it > stirs up the pain of will she ever see that baby again, probably the biggest > hunger she ever had. Now that's something profound about growing older. > > Peace > Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:03:31 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Joni is a miracle On 10/7/03 1:52 PM, "StephenToogood" wrote: > Yes and the Suzanne Vega best of is packed with great songs from 85 to the > present day. Also Joni only had one hit single in the uk; 'Big Yellow Taxi' > which didn't even make top 10 (just missed - 11) and we know she has done so > much more. > Speaking of BYT, after all this time the Counting Crows/Vanessa Carlton version has moved UP the charts to #6. Surely this is a chart record of longevity for a Joni tune. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:02:57 +0100 From: "StephenToogood" Subject: Re: WHICH PERSON AT THE PARTY ARE YOU?? I've kind of mastered it on the guitar now (I do it so the open chord is D# - my voice isn't always so adaptable) and I have to try and catch my breath. It simply stuns me how she fly through that song effortlessly - it's gone in the blink of an eye. Yeah I love the bridge to 'Same Situation' but also love the MOI version. ************** Steve T amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk "Red is autumn green is summer Greens are turning and the sand" - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 2:59 PM Subject: Re: WHICH PERSON AT THE PARTY ARE YOU?? > In a message dated 10/7/2003 12:09:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > Cactustree78@aol.com writes: > so I pose the question...Which person at the party are you?? > > People's Parties is an amazing little glimpse into Joni's psyche, and > brilliant because it's one of those situations we can all relate to. The interesting > thing is that I could see myself as any one of the various people, depending > on my mood or degree of comfort or discomfort, from Jack behind his joker to > being in a frightened silence thinking I don't understand. > And then, we are treated to that gorgeous bridge going into "the same > situation..." > > > Ken H ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:24:32 -0400 From: "Christopher Treacy" Subject: Re: WHICH PERSON AT THE PARTY ARE YOU?? Definitely Jack behind his joker - hands down. - -Chris NP: Fragile - Cassandra Wilson - ----- Original Message ----- From: "StephenToogood" To: "Joni List" Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 2:02 PM Subject: Re: WHICH PERSON AT THE PARTY ARE YOU?? > I've kind of mastered it on the guitar now (I do it so the open chord is > D# - my voice isn't always so adaptable) and I have to try and catch my > breath. It simply stuns me how she fly through that song effortlessly - it's > gone in the blink of an eye. Yeah I love the bridge to 'Same Situation' but > also love the MOI version. > > ************** > Steve T > > amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk > > "Red is autumn green is summer > Greens are turning and the sand" > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 2:59 PM > Subject: Re: WHICH PERSON AT THE PARTY ARE YOU?? > > > > In a message dated 10/7/2003 12:09:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > > Cactustree78@aol.com writes: > > so I pose the question...Which person at the party are you?? > > > > People's Parties is an amazing little glimpse into Joni's psyche, and > > brilliant because it's one of those situations we can all relate to. The > interesting > > thing is that I could see myself as any one of the various people, > depending > > on my mood or degree of comfort or discomfort, from Jack behind his joker > to > > being in a frightened silence thinking I don't understand. > > And then, we are treated to that gorgeous bridge going into "the same > > situation..." > > > > > > Ken H ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:38:34 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: urgent message to the list this is very important so i am not using the label. yesterday i downloaded the plaxo address updating software. it was recommended by a person i trust. little did i know that it would cause so much trouble. i uninstalled it immediately (my mail program crashed and i suspected something had gone awry) but to eliminate the files completely is very hard and it will keep sending the f*cking update notice to everyone anyway. PLEASE DO NOT DOWNLOAD THE SOFTWARE. JUST IGNORE THE MESSAGE AND DELETE IT. some people, who knew about the plaxo scam, have justifiably given me hell in their replies. i apologize. you can't know how embarrassed and stupid i feel. please forgive me for having been so ignorant about this thing. i never meant to cause anybody any inconvenience. i am so sorry i could shoot myself. wally ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:39:37 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: urgent message to the list please someone copy my plaxo message to the list so that aol people can read it. wally ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:20:58 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NCBD- Dud? Oui! Oui! > Oh no > I hope no one takes this the wrong way! Well I certainly didn't, Stephen...and I think it's a rationalization to look at Joni's age with these songs and use that as some kind of a filter...some of the most powerful songs she wrote about aging were written in the 60's! The Circle Game & Both Sides Now being 2 that spring to mind...did she have to experience watching a child grow up to write so eloquently about it in Circle Game? Sure, it was an 'answer song' to Neil's "Sugar Mountain" but it goes so much deeper than that & works on so many levels. Both of these songs are much stronger lyrically than they're given credit for, I would say. And you would think that songs written 20-something years later would be better due to honing of the craft, but I don't see that to be the case comparing NCBD to these 2 songs ...actually quite the opposite! There's more maturity in the 60's songs than in NCBD. One of the reasons they have been covered so many times is that they are DAMN good songs. I mean...she takes the painted pony imagery and then says "We're CAPTIVE on the Carousel of time..." Man, that's powerful stuff. NCBD is probably a song that most songwriters could be proud of, but Joni ain't "most songwriters"...her bar is a lot higher. Bob NP: Rickie Lee Jones, "Mink Coat At The Bus Stop" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:42:05 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: urgent message to the list (for Aol members) - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Wally Kairuz" Para: Enviado: martes, 07 de octubre de 2003 21:38 Asunto: urgent message to the list > this is very important so i am not using the label. > > yesterday i downloaded the plaxo address updating software. it was > recommended by a person i trust. little did i know that it would cause so > much trouble. i uninstalled it immediately (my mail program crashed and i > suspected something had gone awry) but to eliminate the files completely is > very hard and it will keep sending the f*cking update notice to everyone > anyway. > > PLEASE DO NOT DOWNLOAD THE SOFTWARE. JUST IGNORE THE MESSAGE AND DELETE IT. > > some people, who knew about the plaxo scam, have justifiably given me hell > in their replies. i apologize. you can't know how embarrassed and stupid i > feel. please forgive me for having been so ignorant about this thing. i > never meant to cause anybody any inconvenience. > > i am so sorry i could shoot myself. > > wally ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:50:02 -0400 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: RE: urgent message to the list (for Aol members) Wally - I know people who use this system, and my colleague checked on it with our IT person who said it was OK. So, don't go shooting yourself over this. Honestly, so much drama. Much love, Maggie -----Original Message----- From: Emiliano [mailto:emilianopd@mundo-r.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 5:42 PM To: JMDL Subject: Fw: urgent message to the list (for Aol members) ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Wally Kairuz" Para: Enviado: martes, 07 de octubre de 2003 21:38 Asunto: urgent message to the list > this is very important so i am not using the label. > > yesterday i downloaded the plaxo address updating software. it was > recommended by a person i trust. little did i know that it would cause so > much trouble. i uninstalled it immediately (my mail program crashed and i > suspected something had gone awry) but to eliminate the files completely is > very hard and it will keep sending the f*cking update notice to everyone > anyway. > > PLEASE DO NOT DOWNLOAD THE SOFTWARE. JUST IGNORE THE MESSAGE AND DELETE IT. > > some people, who knew about the plaxo scam, have justifiably given me hell > in their replies. i apologize. you can't know how embarrassed and stupid i > feel. please forgive me for having been so ignorant about this thing. i > never meant to cause anybody any inconvenience. > > i am so sorry i could shoot myself. > > wally ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:37:35 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: The Tea Leaf Prophecy, liner notes on In the liner notes for "The Tea Leaf Prophecy", Joni said nothing. No paragraph about her mother. Nothing. Is she saving it for the (rumored) book? Did she skip this song because she's already spilled it in interviews? What? Lama ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 21:56:24 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: The Tea Leaf Prophecy, liner notes on Then there are not liner notes for every song? Which other songs did she skip? At 09:37 PM 10/7/2003 -0400, you wrote: >In the liner notes for "The Tea Leaf Prophecy", Joni said nothing. Lama - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:00:44 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #506 - valid comparisons, etc. Comparing Joni Mitchell to Alanis Morisette because they are both female is like comparing Bob Dylan to Adam Sandler becaue they are both Jewish. Oh c'mon, they're both Canadian too! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:00:11 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni/Alanis << From: Catherine Finn Subject: Re: Joni on others Comparing Joni Mitchell to Alanis Morisette because they are both female is like comparing Bob Dylan to Adam Sandler becaue they are both Jewish. Alanis Morissette, how can I put this delicately, um, sucks. >> Catherine: Obviously, you're entitled to your opinion but I wouldn't say Alanis "sucks"; I certainly wouldn't compare her to Joni either. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:47:17 EDT From: Lazyasz@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and the other Girls Kate Bush and Laurie Anderson. Two women who I would say could equal Joni in terms of their full talents as story-tellers and presenters. Especially Kate Bush, who I feel in many instances even exceeds Joni's abilities in terms of songwriting and producing. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 02:13:09 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: October 8 On October 8 the following articles were published: 1998: "Balm From a Musical Touchstone" - Atlanta Journal and Constitution (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=39 1998: "Taming the Tiger" - Hartford Courant (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=121 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 02:47:27 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: The omnipresent BYT reference Thanks to Counting Crows I guess BYT references are everywhere recently. This one, at the end of the article, sums up this week's big news item. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/10/08/GRAY.TMP ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #316 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)