From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #314 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, October 6 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 314 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Fae Hamilton/RLG is out of the office until Oct. 13, 2003 [Fae_Hamilton@n] Did Night Ride Home ever come out on vinyl? ["Dylan Rush" ] Re: Joni question? [Emiliano ] Fw: Tracy and Joni and Mariah and Jewel and now Bruuuuuuuce (for AOL members) [Emiliano ] Perma-Vine Offer Closed [CDTraderJohn@aol.com] Re: Perma-Vine Offer Closed ["Christopher Treacy" ] Re: Joni question? [Murphycopy@aol.com] Joni is a miracle ["Marianne Rizzo" ] re: American Indian song subject ["mia ortlieb" ] Re: Suzanne Vega and Joni ["StephenToogood" ] Re: Tracy and Joni and Mariah and Jewel and now Bruuuuuuuce ["StephenToog] Another honour for Joni [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni cracks me up... ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Tracy and Joni and Mariah and Jewel and now Bruuuuuuuce [Murphycopy@a] Re: Did Night Ride Home ever come out on vinyl? [hell@ihug.co.nz] Re: Joni on others [Catherine Finn ] "Dog Eat Dog" the perfect soap box! [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Re: Joni on others [Rusty10113@aol.com] Re: Joni on Others - ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #505 [HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com] Re: Joni on others [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Joni is a miracle ["Marja Tensen" ] Re: Alanis and Joni ["StephenToogood" ] NCBD - Dud? ["michael o'malley" ] Re: Suzanne Vega and Joni [AzeemAK@aol.com] Henry Diltz's Undercovers and Let's Sing Out ["Janine Sherman" Subject: Did Night Ride Home ever come out on vinyl? Did Night Ride Home ever come out on vinyl? I figured it didn't, but saw a Come In From The Cold/Slouching Towards Bethlehem 7" single on EBay... does anyone know if the album exists on LP? Also, was Shadows And Light ever released on audio cassette? _________________________________________________________________ E-mail just got a whole lot better. New ninemsn Premium. Click here http://ninemsn.com.au/premium/landing.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 07:43:37 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Tracy and Joni and Mariah and Jewel and now Bruuuuuuuce In a message dated 10/6/03 1:46:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jlamadoo@fuse.net writes: > Rose are you saying that the E Streeters have been touring for 18 months > and > now they're finished? > > That's what I'm saying....but Bruce said at the end.....we'll be seeing you....I have a feeling a new album will be released sometime in the near future. I do have the Light of Day concert to look forward to and then there is talk of 3 Christmas shows at Convention Hall;~) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 08:18:20 -0400 From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Joni Box Set Jimmy comes out with this crap: > Thanks for all the liner notes Lama. You've saved us all 43 bucks! I'm thinking that Joni gets a large cut of the complete Geffen Recordings, and there's probably 10 people on the list that bought this box. Well maybe 8 people because I accidentially bought mine twice. Now I have two tiny packages that I can barely read, although my pending new bifocals may help. From my perspective, it's not worth the buy. Had it been an album box set, I'd be singing a different (off) tune, but the CD packaging is just too small and not suited to its contents. (Size does matter). I wish that the albums in the set were just purchased on their own and a coffee table book of her liner notes and sessions photos would have been done instead with a "bonus" cd of the unreleased recordings tucked into the inside cover. Painting repros would have been nice, too. (:-D As I see it this Monday morning. MG PS Thanks, Lama, for the transcription service! Much appreciated. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 08:20:20 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni question? In a message dated 10/5/2003 6:37:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, CDTraderJohn writes: > Just wondering if you could shed any light on this? John, My understanding is that this recording is this: July 7, 1969; Mississippi River Festival, Southern Illinois University - Edwardsville, IL, broadcast August 3, 1969 on PBS as "The Sounds of Summer" (this info courtesy of Simon's Appearances section on JM.com) Bob NP: Will Hoge, "Let Me Be Lonely" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 08:55:49 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Covers #45 Step right up, everyone's a winner.... Thanks to all who guessed for my October giveaway, I am proud to fling Covers #45 frisbees to the following folks: - - Wil Comstock, who was the first Tennesean to step up; - - That wily Wombat in Oz, John Low; - - Harry Christian, my Wall-to-Wall buddy in NY My pick for this month was "Nothing Can Be Done" from Night Ride Home, both John & Harry chose "The Only Joy In Town" so they were just a hair away from being right on the money! John's been a faithful contestant from day one, so I'm tickled pink that he finally hit the bullseye. Maybe next month some of his countrymen can give him a run for it! I'll be sending the winnings out this week - congrats fellas, & also to Sue Cameron for her win. Hope you enjoy #45. And stay tuned...more to come in a month. Bob NP: Queen Ida & Her Zydeco Band, "My Girl Josephine" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:35:09 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on Others - Azeem wrote (adding another piece of evidence to the charge that Joni lacks grace when it comes to recognizing the good work of others): > I find that really patronising - more damning with faint praise! There are > > very few musicians Joni has given what I would call *real* praise. Bob > Dylan, > Miles Davis and Laura Nyro spring immediately to mind, though I would hope > there'd be others. It's as if someone has to be *as good as her* to be > worthy of > praise, and anyone who isn't as good as her (ie just about everyone!) isn't > worthy of praise. I find the hypotheses presented by you and Steve and a couple of others in in this area credible - in all likelihood correct. However, I would ask you consider these points when evaluating Joni's remarks: 1. In a previous post, I drew an analogy that went something like this: when you are among the very best in all the major categories - composing music, composing lyrics, composing arrangements for guitar, piano and dulcimer, contributing to the advancement of a musical instrument, producing, singing and performing live, well you're like...................Tiger Woods ! 2. To reinforce my point, this month's Golf magazine has an interview with Tiger's best pal Mark O'Meara, covering Mark's accomplishments. When the topic inexorably shifts to Tiger, his remarks approximate "he's the best driver, best long iron player, best putter, best short game,......people like that only come along once in a lifetime". (It is important to note that Tiger is never number one for any year - or even close - in all of those categories - to be Tiger, he merely needs to be among the leaders in all of those categories) 3. Luckily for Tiger, golf is largely quantifiable - his superiority can be measured statistically, and in other objective ways. That does not mean he is the best every week, nor perhaps every year (though by winning again yesterday, he will probably win the money list and player of the year again, without winning a major). I have never read an interviewer ask for Tiger's opinion of a lesser player - which means anyone else - except for Jack Nicklaus, whose greatness from a different generation is unquestioned and whose records Tiger is chasing and will likely (assuming good health) surpass. He is not asked to say nice things about Phil or Ernie - if he was too gracious (like, calling those other players his peers) it would sound phony - while if he said what he was really thinking, he might sound like a cad (after all, everyone recognizes him as the greatest, couldn't he at least be a little gracious ?). 4. Joni, on the other hand, is playing a game where there are no quantifiable measures of greatness. There are quantifiable measures of popularity (which may translate into greatness in the minds of the - relatively unsophisticated, IMO - masses). Joni has been a relative flop getting that type of recognition - I'm certain it is because her work is too high level to be appreciated by the masses - so if that were the only measure of recognition, Joni would not make the top 100. Well, here's my guess on where Joni ranks herself - Number One. That disparity is bound to lodge a big dose of discontent in her craw. Other significant measures of acceptance - as recognition of greatness, if you will - include comments made and awards bestowed by those 'in the game'. Now, while Joni has been the darling of many of the critics, the accolades and wards came sort of "too little, too late". "And I have not read any of them say or write the words she longs to hear - and that I suspect many of them believe in their hearts - that she is the greatest. (Critics in subjective arenas gererally do not say things like that - it is not the nature of art, it is probably not considered professional to do so, and I would guess that most critics would worry about losing credibility with their audience if they were to come out with such an 'unpopular' evaluation anyway). Moreover, among other 'artists', while she is certainly regarded at the highest level, only a handful have come out and said it - and of those, David Crosby is the only man that I am aware of who has said it outright. Myabe Elvis Costello - did he, Bob Muller ? Not James Taylor, not Sting, not even Graham Nash - recall from the WOHAM DVD his remarks about "two very creative people vying for the piano and each other's ear". Sorry, but Graham Nash - while perhaps a 'better' person than Joni - is not Joni's peer as an artist. I do realize that other women artists worship her - including KD Lang and Melissa Ethridge - but even they have tagged the 'female' adjective onto their accolades in most cases, no ? 5. IMO, the reason Joni gets questions like that from interviewers is that they know she deserves them. In a way, they are stating what they believe but are not allowed to state - in the form of a question. As in " do you think there is anyone from this generation who is your peer" or "whom do you consider to be among your peers" (which forces her to mention Bob Dylan - whose musical composition skills are comical when juxtaposed with Joni's). It may well be their way of flattering Joni - of asking the question they think is almost rhetorical - with the answer being nobody - but it puts Joni in Jeopardy ;-) - and in practice is merely a temptation for her to trip over, as she vents her unfulfilled ego. In some cases, it may simply be an attempt by a disapproving critic who does hold her in such high regard (or dislikes her arrogance) to get her to expose her unflattering side. Either way, do you really expect her to sing the praises of Aimee Mann ? 6. In her heart, Joni probably sees comparisons of the work of lesser talents to hers as insulting to her. It would be better if she were to take the high road, recognizing that such comparisons merely reflect poorly on the taste of the person drawing them. But she is "flesh and blood", with warts and flaws, not some statue in park. It is always unrealistic to expect a goddess. Almost as unrealistic as expecting to be worshipped. ;-) Bobsart (JM admirer and apologist) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:46:46 -0400 From: Ken Subject: Re: Joni Box Set Should have waited for the "Aging Boomers Geffen Large Print Version" MGVal@aol.com wrote: > >Well maybe 8 people because I accidentially bought mine twice. Now I have two tiny packages that I can barely read, although my pending new bifocals may help. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 15:42:11 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: Joni question? Hi, Bob! And what about this appearance?: 07-19-69 Newport Folk Festival Newport RI USA PBS?-TV Broadcast as "The Sounds Of Summer '69", Nov. 1969 In fact, this fits with the date (the month, at least) currently adscribed to this *great* show, don't you think? Well, Have a Wonderful time! Emiliano np: my younger daughter attacking "Brave new world" on piano, aaaagh! - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: Para: CC: Enviado: lunes, 06 de octubre de 2003 14:20 Asunto: Re: Joni question? > In a message dated 10/5/2003 6:37:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, CDTraderJohn writes: > > > Just wondering if you could shed any light on this? > > John, > > My understanding is that this recording is this: > > July 7, 1969; Mississippi River Festival, Southern Illinois > University - Edwardsville, IL, broadcast August 3, 1969 on PBS > as "The Sounds of Summer" > (this info courtesy of Simon's Appearances section on JM.com) > > Bob > > NP: Will Hoge, "Let Me Be Lonely" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 16:04:25 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: Tracy and Joni and Mariah and Jewel and now Bruuuuuuuce (for AOL members) - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Wally Kairuz" Para: ; ; Enviado: lunes, 06 de octubre de 2003 4:58 Asunto: RE: Tracy and Joni and Mariah and Jewel and now Bruuuuuuuce > joni once told wally B to watch judge judy for laughs. does anybody else > remember that? > wally (K) > > > -----Mensaje original----- > > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de > > Murphycopy@aol.com > > Enviado el: Domingo, 05 de Octubre de 2003 09:42 p.m. > > Para: ljirvin@jmdl.com; joni@smoe.org > > Asunto: Re: Tracy and Joni and Mariah and Jewel and now Bruuuuuuuce > > > > > > Les writes: > > > > << Les, ready for the next question... >> > > > > Why yes, Les. I have a question. > > > > I have just sent a European lister my version of the history of > > Jewish humor > > in America. (Or the history of Jewish humor since I've been > > around, which is > > for most of American history . . . RIMSHOT!!!) Anyway, I was > > wondering . . . > > has Joni ever mentioned any comedians or TV shows or films or > > anything at all -- > > in a mass-cultural sort of way -- that make her laugh? > > > > Thank you, > > > > --Curious in Boston ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:09:25 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni question? > Hi, Bob! > And what about this appearance?: > 07-19-69 Newport Folk Festival Newport RI USA PBS?-TV > Broadcast as > "The Sounds Of Summer '69", Nov. 1969 As I said, my understanding is that the recording in question is from the Mississippi River Festival. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:31:48 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni question? There was also a vinyl bootleg of this recording released as "Lennie & Dom Songs (Early On)", matter of fact there's a copy up for grabs on ebay now: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2563135473&category=1075 Who are Lennie & Dom? I have no idea. I do know that Simon has done a tremendous amount of research on this recording so I'd be anxious to see if he could clarify any of these details. Bob NP: New Colony Six, "At The River's Edge" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:58:01 -0500 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: re:Lakota Subject: Re: Perma-Vine Offer Closed Why haven't we unearthed a video of this???? - -Chris - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; ; Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 10:44 AM Subject: Perma-Vine Offer Closed > SUBJECT: Vine Offer Closed > > Hi all, > > Please see below for a CORRECTED description of this show based on > newly received information. > > I have decided to take 3 Perma-Viners instead of two. The first > recipients of this vine are: > > Emiliano Patiqo emilianopd@mundo-r.com Spain > Paul Peterson ppeterson4@nyc.rr.com New York > Linda Crawford sewbead@starband.net Georgia > > I will mail these discs within the next few days. Re-offerings should > begin to appear on JMDL within about one week. > > To avoid confusion, I have posted the Perma-Vine rules below. > > Enjoy, > John in Massachusetts > > > > > > PERMA-VINE RULES: > 1) When you receive your Perma-Vine disc you must MAKE COPIES FOR YOURSELF > and re-post an offer on JMDL. You will forward the ORIGINAL DISC onto the > next > recipient (you may NOT keep the original Perma-Vine disc). This method > ensures that all participants can get a clean, glitch-free copy of this show > directly off the original disc. > > 2) You must re-post your offer of this vine only to JMDL. (NOTE: Please give > digesters ample opportunity to respond, too.) Once you have selected the > next recipient, you must post their name, e-mail and state/country to the JMDL > list. (A typical closing post would read: Vine Offer Closed. John Smith > (johnsmith@abc.com) has agreed to continue this Vine on JMDL). If, after TWO > postings within a 48-hour period, there is no response, you may then, and only > then, > post the Perma-Vine offer to another group, but you MUST post an announcement > to JMDL indicating which group you have transferred this Perma-Vine to. > > 3) By requesting these Perma-Vine discs, you have agreed to make this show > available to those who are unable to burn copies for themselves (and, thus, > cannot participate directly in this Perma-Vine). You agree to post an > offer(s) on > JMDL for at least one burnerless individual as soon as you have forwarded the > original Perma-Vine disc onto the next recipient. You must post the name, > e-mail and state/country of the burnerless recipient to the JMDL list. > Additionally, you may B+P or trade this to as many as you like AFTER you have > forwarded the Perma-Vine discs onto the next recipient. You are not required > to post > subsequent trades or B+P's to the list > > 4) You further agree to keep the Perma-Vine disc in your possession no longer > than 72 hours before re-offering. > > 5) Lastly, you agree to ENJOY this music immensely! > > > Here is the track information: > > Joni Mitchell > > PBS-TV > Los Angeles > November 30, 1969?? > > [*** NOTE: Bob Muller indicates this show is most likely from July 7, 1969; > Mississippi River Festival, Southern Illinois University - Edwardsville, IL, > broadcast August 3, 1969 on PBS as "The Sounds of Summer" as indicated on > Simon's site. However, the same site also mentions the following: 07-19-69 > Newport Folk Festival Newport RI USA PBS?-TV Broadcast as "The Sounds Of > Summer > '69", Nov. 1969. In the absence of setlists for the above performances, I > would > expect Bob's information is correct.] > > > 11) Chelsea Morning > 12) Cactus Tree > 13) Night in the City > 14) Marcie/Nathan LaFraneer > 15) Two Houses (medley: Rainy Night House/Blue Boy) > 16) For Free > 17) Get Together > 18) The Fiddle and the Drum > 19) I Think I Understand > 20) Both Sides Now ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:04:38 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni question? Muller writes: << Who are Lennie & Dom? >> Lennie "Sticky" Stickney and Dom Black were a vaudeville comedy team known as Sticky and Black who are alleged to have a great influence on Joni. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:37:14 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: Joni is a miracle >Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 00:04:32 +0100 >From: "StephenToogood" >Subject: Re: Joni and the other Girls >Yes it does amaze me how out of touch Joni is with so much good music. I >mean she grumbles when hers doesn't get much attention. >I also feel sorry for her because I'm sure it must have been really hard. I >mean she accomplished a lot as and for a woman in the industry and many >woman less talented than her kick her ass when it comes to record sales. >Alanis for example: 'Jagged Little Pill' has sold a ridiculous amount. Yes >it has a lot of emotion in it and yeah it's pretty good but it sure as hell >has proved to be less timeless! For me anyway because I rarely listen to it >now. Also Alanis didn't put as much into that record as Joni puts into >hers. >Of course Joni is like a miracle and other artist can't help that. That about sums it up. . . . . J o n i is a m i r a c l e . Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Get MSN 8 Dial-up Internet Service FREE for one month. Limited time offer-- sign up now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:19:41 -0500 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: American Indian song subject Mia added >>Joni is also part Native American Indian However, Joni admits that she >>does have Indian blood in her, and this is something that she was taught >>to deny while growing up. She explains that there was a sort of caste >>system in Canada, and that everyone who had part Indian blood was taught to deny it.<< Mike asks if anyone can give any further information on Joni's Native American blood/line. Is there objective proof of this? Where exactly does she say this? mike in barcelona *** I've only heard Joni speak about it once, and that was during a Toronto interactive performance on a show called MuchMusic. I watched it again last night, and yes, she definitely admits to having Indian Blood. It sounds like she must have traced her family line, or have been told by a relative at one point. But her parents always told her because she had blue eyes and blonde hair that this could not be true. If you've ever taken a biology class, you can understand that this actually occurs all the time based on how genes operate. At the end of the segment, after explaining how she was taught to deny it by her parents, she jokingly tries to defend her parents, now that the cat is out of the bag, and says something like, okay mom and dad, I'm a liar, we don't really have it. I kinda feel like I'm experiencing the same thing with my own family. I had a friend once who was really into geneology. She asked me about my maiden name, which is Gross, and told me that I probably have a Jewish background. Well, this kind of floored me, my paternal grandfather coming from a large farm family of fourteen, all devout Catholics. One of his brothers was a Catholic priest. My friend explained that many Jewish immigrants from Europe settled here in the 1800's and changed their religion to fit in. I immediately leafed through the phone directory and found lots of Rabbi Gross's. Then when I asked my family about it, the response was "No, Gross is German, not Jewish." But that makes no sense to me. Aren't there also German Jews? You can't compare a religion to a country. I asked other paternal relatives and got the same response "No, Gross is German, not Jewish" which leaves me suspicious. Has this statement been drilled into their heads over the years? Nobody seems to want to explore the issue. I love my family dearly, but would also like to get a straight answer from someone. Mia _________________________________________________________________ Instant message with integrated webcam using MSN Messenger 6.0. Try it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 18:45:17 +0100 From: "StephenToogood" Subject: Re: Suzanne Vega and Joni Hi Frederick I haven't go 99.9 F yet but I have a few of the tracks from the recent best of and really love them! It makes me think a bit of what Madonna has been putting out the past couple of years - acoustic guitar mixed with kind of hi-tec sounds. I think Mitchell Froom did a lot for her music though I love her debut. So far my fave tracks are from the '9 Objects Of Desire' album which I also must get! I don't think Vega has too much in common with Joni. I think Azeem was saying how there vocal styles are not comparable - Vega doesn't sing from as deep down as Joni (Joni usually takes a deep breath). I do however like Vega's voice and love the way she pronounces some things. I think she sites her biggest influences as being Leonard Cohen and Laura Nyro. PS: Me and a couple of people might be going to Seattle in early 2005! Do you like where you live? We want lots to do 'cos we'd be going for 2 weeks. The other possible places are San Francisco and Toronto. Peace ************** Steve T amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk "Red is autumn green is summer Greens are turning and the sand" > Vega has generated good, solid, original music from the get go -- > peaking, especially, with her album 99.9 F, which, owning a LOT to her > husband, Mitchell Froom, kicks some serious ass -- trenchant > songwriting, great tunes, creepy, edgy production...love it. If anyone > here missed that one, dig it up -- you'll be surprised. I think J. > Mitchell dised Vega because of all the comparisons that were going down > at the time -- as a way to throw the whole thing off her back; still, > not very gracious or truthful on her part. > Frederick (on a moody, misty, autumnal Seattle dusk -- something right > of Hejira!) > > NP: Jeanne Lee and Mal Waldron's After Hours ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 18:55:09 +0100 From: "StephenToogood" Subject: Re: Tracy and Joni and Mariah and Jewel and now Bruuuuuuuce I think Joni is just very defensive because she doesn't like to be associated with anyone considered more mainstream. I have not heard that much Springsteen to be honest just the radio stuff. She likes to think of herself as more Jazz. Joni's music is lots of things to me. Notice though that her comment about Bruce was less snipey because he is a man! NP: The Archetypal Man (live) - Judee Sill ************** Steve T amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk "Red is autumn green is summer Greens are turning and the sand" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" To: Cc: "Rose M. Joy" ; "_JMDL" Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 6:45 AM Subject: RE: Tracy and Joni and Mariah and Jewel and now Bruuuuuuuce > Yes. I don't recall the interview but I distinctly remember reading (not > hearing) her say "He shows real songwriting craftsmanship." Something very > close to that. Joni "gets" it. She practically called him "old school". > > Then she said, "The Boss is more like an honorary woman, really," unless I > made that up. > > Lama > > Rose are you saying that the E Streeters have been touring for 18 months and > now they're finished? > > > > From: Murphycopy@aol.com [mailto:Murphycopy@aol.com] > > Women aside, I think someone who is in Joni's league as an > > overall "creator" > > of music -- i.e., songwriter, composer, musician, vocalist, > > performer, etc. -- > > is Bruuuuce. (Hi, Rosie.) I was wondering . . . has Joni ever > > dissed him? Has > > she said anything at all about him? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 14:03:49 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Another honour for Joni The Folk Music's Canadian Walk of Fame inducted Joni as one of its first 5 inductees. Extry extry, read all about it: http://canada.com/national/story.asp?id=F088920F-8B0A-4D13-9864-E0537E06E396 Bob NP: Dick Dale & His Del-Tones, "The Victor" (no not our Victor) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:39:31 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Joni cracks me up... lori: >It must be one of the most depressing, disheartening things for a singer-songwriter to be dissed by Joni Mitchell. Didn't it make Alanis Morrisette cry?< i would never want joni to hear my music for that very reason...the dissing of other artists says more about the person who criticizes than it does about the artist imo...as much as i admire joni for so many things, this is something that i have never respected... music is not about who is better or who is smarter, etc...to me, music is about what moves me... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 16:25:39 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Tracy and Joni and Mariah and Jewel and now Bruuuuuuuce Steve writes: << Notice though that her comment about Bruce was less snipey because he is a man! >> Or maybe because he's a worthy competitor in the genius singer/songwriter/etc. category. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:33:52 +1300 From: hell@ihug.co.nz Subject: Re: Did Night Ride Home ever come out on vinyl? Dylan wrote: > Did Night Ride Home ever come out on vinyl? I > figured it didn't, but saw a Come In From The > Cold/Slouching Towards Bethlehem 7" single on > EBay... does anyone know if the album exists on > LP? > > Also, was Shadows And Light ever released on audio > cassette? That's a "yes" to both. I have NRH on vinyl, and S&L on cassette. And in fact, I still listen to the cassette quite often, because it has Black Crow on it, which the CD doesn't (unless you buy the far more expensive Japanese import)! Hell ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:38:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine Finn Subject: Re: Joni on others Comparing Joni Mitchell to Alanis Morisette because they are both female is like comparing Bob Dylan to Adam Sandler becaue they are both Jewish. Alanis Morissette, how can I put this delicately, um, sucks. Comparing her to Joni is the creative writing 101 example of how not to write so called "confessional" verse. Joni, and Dylan, write very personal very intimate lyrics that *also* are universal enough to connect with the listener. The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 16:48:52 EDT From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: "Dog Eat Dog" the perfect soap box! I just thought I would send the list a copy of the letter I sent to my friend who works as an Editor for the LA Times. It rings so true as to why "Dog Eat Dog" is back on the streets. It certainly is a hostel sun beating down on this massive mess we're in and "Sex Kills"! What was that extra verse of "Woodstock" Anita sang at Joni Fest "Joni and her snake bite tongue" or something like that? It astounds me how she is so relevant even today with things written 10 to 20 years ago. Peace Mingus ______________________________________________________________________ Hey Nick, You guys got a real tiger by the tail. You're not being given any good options on this recall thing. From where we're sitting, "No" to the recall seems to be the safest bet. Allowing Arnold in would be disgraceful. I really don't care who anyone sleeps with but this guy is a predator. Then there's the Nazi business. I have no idea if he has anything to say about policy. We only hear the juicy stuff! I'm afraid if the recall is a go, a plurality will give it to Arnold. Disturbingly, the whole recall push seems to have been germinated in DC. The Republican party is out of control. I'm afraid our futures are being dictated by something other than the people. Pisses me off. Hopefully some of these shenanigans will blow up in their faces and we'll flush out the culprits. The White House/CIA thing is more than a red herring -- that'll become a very big deal. Then there's the abysmal handling of Iraq. I'll bet Crawford is looking pretty good 'bout now. Remember, this is the State that allowed him to be appointed. But, a lot of his devoted fans around here are becoming impatient. Skepticism is next, then he slides. So what do you think: Clark? Dean? Hee, hee, hee! Wanna hear my diatribe on organized religion? Hey, how 'bout Rush? Another self-righteous prick splats. I'd like to say that brings me no pleasure but I'd be lying. I hope your mood level and heart are improving! Is Florida still an option? If you run out of opinions -- on anything! -- give me a call. love you, David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 16:58:15 EDT From: Rusty10113@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on others Had to chime in on this one.. No one holds a candle to Joni, to be sure, but I've been deeply inspired and touched by some of Alanis's work...Precious Illusions, One and Joining You and Thank You are just a sampling of her songs that contain some very powerful, spiritual messages that have rocked my world... gotta agree that comparitively speaking, Alanis pales vs. Joni, but I don't really even consider Alanis a confessional artist... but I love the way she tackles spiritual issues and claims her own self worth...love that about her! warmly from NYC. Mitch ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:40:46 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Joni on Others - >Joni has been a relative flop getting that type of recognition - I'm certain it is because her work is too high level to be appreciated by the masses< i disagree!!! in her day (& let's face it every artist has their day), joni was hugely appreciated by the masses & the queen of all music...to this day she is among the most admired by other musicians...what could be more notable than that? but now it is no longer her day & she isn't still writing so that is that...but others are having hit songs with her songs which is great income...i understand her beef with the music biz but that has been said already so now i hope that joni is able to find gratitude for all she has & all the recognition she has been given... & if other artists are compared to her it is just uneccessary to diss them...how about just saying that as an artist it bothers her to be compared at all? ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 17:50:04 EDT From: HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #505 :she always misses, but the day she hits, that's the day she'll leave. that one little victory, that's all she needs. she pulls the shade, it's just another sunny monday." hoops standing next to joni waiting for the night to fall ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 19:21:26 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on others In a message dated 06/10/2003 21:59:43 GMT Daylight Time, Rusty10113@aol.com writes: << gotta agree that comparitively speaking, Alanis pales vs. Joni, but I don't really even consider Alanis a confessional artist... but I love the way she tackles spiritual issues and claims her own self worth... >> One thing Alanis has done that Joni hasn't: Played God on screen :-) Azeem in London Just watched Dogma on telly... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 23:38:39 +0000 From: "Marja Tensen" Subject: Re: Joni is a miracle You know, I really can't blame Joni. To lots of people out there, Tracy Chapman and Suzanne Vega are just one-hit-wonders. Okay, two hits for Vega but the remix of "Tom's Diner" was something she wasn't even involved with. And where are they now?... All in all, I guess Joni thinks that they're some kind of competition for her even though she's not doing much these days. She needs to understand that it's unnessessary to complain about these acts because no one will ever come close to what she is and has become. - -marja _________________________________________________________________ Share your photos without swamping your Inbox. Get Hotmail Extra Storage today! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:41:51 +0100 From: "StephenToogood" Subject: Re: Alanis and Joni > One thing Alanis has done that Joni hasn't: > > Played God on screen :-) > > Azeem in London > Just watched Dogma on telly... Oh I missed it again! Maybe I'll get the DVD sometime. I was just using Alanis as an example to put my point across. Others do compare them - I remember that Q compared her latest album to HEJIRA. Humm I don't think so! There styles are very different though I do consider a lot of Alanis's lyrics to be confessional - I think that is why the emotion comes across so well. Also I wasn't knocking Alanis - I have the 'Joining You' single and like it very much and maybe I would find the 'Supposed... Junkie' album more enduring than 'Jagged Little Pill. Kate brought up a very good point about how it is important that the music moves you. I can't argue with that! NP: Crayon Angels - Judee Sill ************** Steve T amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk "Red is autumn green is summer Greens are turning and the sand" - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 12:21 AM Subject: Re: Joni on others > In a message dated 06/10/2003 21:59:43 GMT Daylight Time, Rusty10113@aol.com > writes: > > << gotta agree that comparitively speaking, Alanis pales vs. Joni, but I > don't really even consider Alanis a confessional artist... but I love the way she > tackles spiritual issues and claims her own self worth... >> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 19:45:18 -0400 From: "michael o'malley" Subject: NCBD - Dud? I've been following with interest the lists people have been making of Joni's less-than-stellar songs. I agree with many of the choices, but I beg to differ with the song Nothing Can Be Done. Anyone over 40 should have a closer listen to it. It is a love song, about misunderstanding and relationships. It is also about growing old. Joni has mentioned how some of her friends are very uncomfortable with this song, since it hits too close to home. It speaks about facing the mid-40's crisis and the realisation, finally, that one is not getting any younger. A profound statement, for those who are living it..;-)) Michael in Quebec NOTHING CAN BE DONE Music by Larry Klein Words by Joni Mitchell Must I forgive you Each time And say you don't know what your're doing There are no victimless crimes I know of Out here in these graffiti ruins My love Oh I am not old I'm told But I am not young Oh and nothing can be done Don't start My heart Is a smoking gun Oh and nothing can be done I heard you leaving Late last night I heard you screaming down the mountain Like you were running red lights (Red lights) You had some trash-can-rock-band pounding Oh I am not old I'm told But I am not young Oh and nothing can be done Don't start My heart Is a smoking gun Oh and nothing can be done Must I surrender With grace The things I loved when I was younger (Sweet embrace) Must I remember your face So well What do I do here with this hunger Oh I am not old I'm told But I am not young Oh and nothing can be done Don't start My heart Is a smoking gun Oh and nothing can be done Nothing can be done Nothing can be done Oh nothing can be done ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:15:03 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Suzanne Vega and Joni In a message dated 06/10/2003 18:49:23 GMT Daylight Time, amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk writes: << I haven't go 99.9 F yet but I have a few of the tracks from the recent best of and really love them! >> 99.9F is a WONDERFUL album, I love it to bits. It's full of great songs and a bewildering variety of sonic settings. Some of Mitchell Froom's ideas are pretty out-there, but miraculously, they all work. The title song is gorgeously sexy; Elvis Costello would have killed to have written When Heroes Go Down; Bad Wisdom tackles a devastating subject with an insight and concision that certain other songwriters could do worse than emulate; In Liverpool shows how beautifully she uses her voice, which I have always loved. It wasn't actually me who was comparing their vocal styles, Steve, but it's obviously right that they are very different. Suzanne has no vibrato at all, which is pretty unusual; I can hear a lot of colour and shading in her singing - - just listen to the tenderness with she sings Gypsy, or the sardonic edge of Black Widow Station, or the playfulness of Fat Man And The Dancing Girl. She is also a superb live performer: she sings and plays guitar beautifully, is intelligent and often very funny between songs; she's even been known to dance! In short, although she has produced far fewer songs than Joni and nothing as flat-out genius, I firmly believe that she is still an artist of true substance, and if Joni chooses to believe that she's insubstantial (which she hasn't actually said but may as well have done given the dismissiveness of her comments about Suzanne), then she doesn't know what she's talking about - so there! Azeem in London NP: The Q Awards on telly, which this year have produced a real surprise: Scott Walker was given a "legend" type award - and actually turned up to accept it and even said a few awards. Wow! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:43:33 -0400 From: "Janine Sherman" Subject: Henry Diltz's Undercovers and Let's Sing Out Hello all, Upon Kakki's (thanks) recommendation I ordered this DVD from Amazon. = This Diltz DVD is totally awesome! You get great music and all the = behind -the- scenes on some great album covers of the seventies and = plenty of Joni. Henry Diltz is a big Joni fan, as evidenced by his = repeated Joni referencing. The icing on the cake is watching Joni = plaster a band-aid on Graham's scratched behind after he tore his pants = at Big Bear where the guys were horsing around for the CSN album photo = shoot. Prior to that scene are pictures of the ride up to Big Bear with = her penning Willy. This is a must have IMHO.=20 My Let's Sing Out tape came today too from scjoniguy (thanks). The Let's = Sing Out shows are a hoot. Welcome to the Hootenanny- sung over and over = at the beginning each time tickles the heck outta me. Watching Joni = partake in that inane opening sing along each time and then, of course, = she proceeds to BLOW everyone away with her iconoclastic performance. = Priceless...=20 All the best,=20 Janine NP: Daddy Don't Live in that NYC No More- Steely Dan =20 [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/bmp which had a name of Pastel Monet.bmp] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:42:54 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NCBD - Dud? Oui Oui!! Actress Celebrates 60th Birthday with Disneyland Bash" - Associated Press Perhaps Joni, like Liz, will celebrate her 60th at Disneyland, where "nobody is grumpy." But probably not. Just a little joke, I'm not meaning to imply Joni is grumpy and I do, from a distance, wish her the happiest birthday. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:07:46 -0400 From: "Janine Sherman" Subject: Henry Diltz's Undercovers and Let's Sing Out Hello all, Upon Kakki's (thanks) recommendation I ordered this DVD from Amazon. This Diltz DVD is totally awesome! You get great music and all the behind -the- scenes on some great album covers of the seventies and plenty of Joni. Henry Diltz is a big Joni fan, as evidenced by his repeated Joni referencing. The icing on the cake is watching Joni plaster a band-aid on Graham's scratched behind after he tore his pants at Big Bear where the guys were horsing around for the CSN album photo shoot. Prior to that scene are pictures of the ride up to Big Bear with her penning Willy. This is a must have IMHO. My Let's Sing Out tape came today too from scjoniguy (thanks). The Let's Sing Out shows are a hoot. Welcome to the Hootenanny- sung over and over at the beginning each time tickles the heck outta me. Watching Joni partake in that inane opening sing along each time and then, of course, she proceeds to BLOW everyone away with her iconoclastic performance. Priceless... All the best, Janine NP: Daddy Don't Live in that NYC No More- Steely Dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:22:47 -0500 From: "Steve Polifka" Subject: Re: Did Night Ride Home ever come out on vinyl? SHi all, the Shadows and Light Remaster HDCD has lp artwork and the album in its entirety on 2 discs, FYI. Steve - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Dylan Rush" ; Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 3:33 PM Subject: Re: Did Night Ride Home ever come out on vinyl? > Dylan wrote: > > > Did Night Ride Home ever come out on vinyl? I > > figured it didn't, but saw a Come In From The > > Cold/Slouching Towards Bethlehem 7" single on > > EBay... does anyone know if the album exists on > > LP? > > > > Also, was Shadows And Light ever released on audio > > cassette? > > That's a "yes" to both. I have NRH on vinyl, and S&L on > cassette. And in fact, I still listen to the cassette quite > often, because it has Black Crow on it, which the CD doesn't > (unless you buy the far more expensive Japanese import)! > > Hell ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #314 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)