From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #312 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, October 5 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 312 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- re the duds list [cul heath ] Re: "Nothing Can Be Done" ["StephenToogood" ] re:Lakota ["Marian Russell " ] Re: Lakota [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #311 ["Paul Mepschen" ] Vine Offer: Joni 11/30/69 PBS-TV Los Angeles [CDTraderJohn@aol.com] Lakota, the story behind the song ["Laurent Olszer" ] Joni and the other Girls [KJHSF@aol.com] re:Lakota ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Duds - long ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Joni and the other Girls [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Joni and the other Girls ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Joni raps! [Michael Paz ] Re: Joni's Birthday Bash in the UK [Michael Paz ] Re: Coyote: Man and Animal [Michael Paz ] Re: synthesized like magic [Michael Paz ] Looking for Joni in Saskatoon [Gertus@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #311 [Deb Messling ] "Dog Eat Dog", liner notes on ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: re the duds list "This is the list of those 25 songs dubbed so far as duds by various JMDL'ers (sorry if I missed anyones candidates)."|snip| I can't for the life of me understand what people are failing to connect with in any of those titles...each of them in turn has been a joy for me to sing acapella while driving or painting walls or walking down the street at one point or another. The only song I have a problem with is Ethiopia and that's because it is sooooo demanding on the empathetic level that I sometimes am literally enraged and my stomach gets all twisted in a knot and I am driven to strangle perfect innocent people in malls or kick in my tv screen...so I will intentionally skip the tune. But it certainly has nothing to do with finding the piece itself at fault...its simply that I am emotionally incapable of containing its volatile energy. Something that has struck me about this whole conversation is that as we all know, Mitchell as a musical painter and compulsive innovator will of course stretch the edges of what is "pretty" or "luxuriant" or even "rational" as a way of maintaining growth. Of course some of these maneuvers will leave a portion of her audience feeling at odds with what they have come to expect of her. Nothing is so cherish-able about Mitchell's body of work over the years to this adorator however as the demand that her innovations require of me with each new release. For instance, when I first heard Travelog I rushed to the opinion that it was somehow corny in its hollywood lushness and self absorption and had the audacity to regard it as fake on some level and felt a deep sense of disappointment. But my faith in Mitchell as an innovator also led me to the possibility that I simply was not hearing what she was hearing and so I intentionally exposed myself to may more listens, some focusing on the pieces and some simply backgrounding my usual activities. I would say that by exposure six I had come to realize Travelogue was a genius work of subtlety and what I had been projecting onto the tracks was my own crassness and not hers. I had to work to redeem myself by taking responsibility for the way in which I was actively hearing. That is our addition to her art, is it not? What I am trying to say by that is that I have found that music (or any art for that matter) which I cannot link to, is rarely if ever the fault of the art itself, but rather an impediment of my own making. It was with that understanding of the nature of being a listener that I came to love and appreciate so many forms of music I had previously disparaged because of some habitual social contrivance I had often unconsciously programmed into my brain to filter my ears through...What joy I suddenly found in country twangs and wedding polkas and the wonders of elevator schmaltz once the process was apparent to me on a conscious level. This gain in accessibility to previously detested musical experiences did not come at the cost of a discerning criticality either...I still know what I enjoy best and that which resonates within me in the deepest ways, but at least now I am in a position to choose whether to turn on or off the internal critic. I hope that makes some sort of sense. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:09:47 +0100 From: "StephenToogood" Subject: Re: "Nothing Can Be Done" Okay I don't count this one as a dud! I always wondered why she put this on _Misses_ rather than something else, but then one day I realised I thought it was quite good! It's not her best but not a bad song. I can definitely tell that the music is not Joni's. It's got more of a beat and isn't all that unique - "You had some trash-can-rock-band pounding". It's the lyrics and the singing that really make this song! I love the way she sings "There are no victimless crimes" and the she sings the chorus with such conviction. Also the song definitely ties in with the whole 'getting older' theme on NRH. PS: I would definitely remove about a third of the songs in that list of 25 duds! NP: Lady-O (live) - Judee Sill ************** Steve T amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk "Red is autumn green is summer Greens are turning and the sand" - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 1:05 AM Subject: Re: duds - long because of some lists > This is the list of those 25 songs dubbed so far as duds by various JMDL'ers > (sorry if I missed anyones candidates). > > 1. "Dancin' Clown" > 2. "Lakota" > 3. "Ethiopia". > 4. "Pirate of Penance" > 5. "No Apologies" > 6. "Good Friends," > 7. "Snakes and Ladders." > 8. "Last Chance Lost." .... > 9. Lead Balloon > 10. Stay In Touch > 11. Blue Boy > 12. Tax Free > 13. Tea Leaf Prophecy > 14. Cool Water > 15. "The Windfall," > 16. Number One > 17. Reoccurring Dream > 18. Ladies Man > 19. "The Jungle Line" > 20. "yvette in english" > 21. "Underneath The Streetlight" > 22. Roses Blue: > 23. The Tenth World: > 24. Smokin' (Empty, Try Another): > 25. Nothing Can Be Done > > Of these, 13 are from the '80's records and 7 are from the '90's. 3 are from > the '60's and only 2 are from the '70's !!!!!. > > Here's my selection of 10 from these that I might make a CD from that I could > listen to and enjoy (arranged in an order that I might prefer, given this > motley concoction) - by the way, I think it would make a pretty good record: > > 1. "Underneath The Streetlight" > 2. Ladies Man > 3. Blue Boy > 4. "The Jungle Line" > 5. Number One > 6. "The Windfall," > 7. "Dancin' Clown" > 8. "yvette in english" > 9. "Last Chance Lost." > 10. Stay In Touch > > Then, I would make a mini-record of 5 heavyweight political songs of some > merit: > > 1. "Good Friends" > 2. "Lakota" > 3. Tea Leaf Prophecy > 4. "Ethiopia" > 5. Tax Free > > That leaves my least favorite 10 of this motley bunch (my apologies to Pirate > of Penance, but I still cannot find the right mix of Joni songs I would want > it in with) - by the way, the list is basically Bob Muller's concoction, minus > Dancin Clown and Tea Leaf, plus Cool Water, Reoccurring Dream and Lead > Balloon (which I believe Bob overlooked when hunting for a 10th entry on his list). > Fine job, indeed, Bob M ! > > > 1. "Pirate of Penance" > 2. Roses Blue: > 3. Nothing Can Be Done > 4. "Snakes and Ladders." > 5. The Tenth World: > 6. Cool Water > 7. Reoccurring Dream > 8. Smokin' (Empty, Try Another): > 9. Lead Balloon > 10. "No Apologies" > > The themes in this last hypothetical CD are pretty nightmarish, in a macabre > way, no ? Perhaps that is why these songs are on this list. Although there are > a few songs on this list I am OK with on a stand alone basis (plus two that > Joni saw fit to put on Misses !), this is indeed one CD that I would stay away > from unless I needed to confront my demons :~0 > > Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 07:56:26 -0400 From: "Marian Russell " Subject: re:Lakota On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 11:59:11 -0500 "J.David Sapp" wrote: >Lakota came to life for me on the '88 San Remo >Songfest disc. She does an acoustic Lakota that >is breathtaking. It allows the lyric to shine and >Joni's emotive singing is beyond Joniesque. Does anyone have this recording who would be willing to send it to me? I find that some of the songs that I didn't like much on the albums really stunned me when I heard the acoustic versions, particularly Moon At The Window, Number One, The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey, and Borderline. I do like the song Lakota (at least better than some of the other tracks on CMIARS) and would love to hear the acoustic version. Also, it would be very interesting to be able to hear what she is really doing on the guitar. Hope somebody can help me out here. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 08:43:02 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Lakota Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #311 > "Tracy Chapman wrote a coupla good songs, but generally speaking she's not > that musically gifted. And Suzanne Vega, well..." > LOL she just says it how she sees it (or hears it) I guess! > Didn't Larry Klein produce one of Tracy Chapman's albums? Well actually I think she is being extremely arrogant here. Why does Joni hate women? Why does she complain about how difficult it was for a female songwriter in late sixties, but at the same time is so incredibly unsupportive of the women of late eighties. What is she afraid of? What I think is cynical is that in another interview she says that she likes Norah Jones because she hears no ambition in her voice. Puh-leaze, what does Joni know about no ambition? To tell you the truth, I think none of the eighties women songwriters were in Joni's league, except maybe Michelle Shocked, who came close. The nineties I think saw two songwriters who are in Joni's league -- Ani Difranco and Dar Williams. She might as well acknowledge it. The fact that in 1998 she had never even heard of Ani, shows that she might not at all be the best judge when it comes to contemporary songwriting. Paul of the Netherlands ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 10:05:47 -0400 From: "Suze Cameron" Subject: duds > This is the list of those 25 songs dubbed so far as duds by various JMDL'ers > (sorry if I missed anyones candidates). > > 1. "Dancin' Clown" > 2. "Lakota" > 3. "Ethiopia". > 4. "Pirate of Penance" > 5. "No Apologies" > 6. "Good Friends," > 7. "Snakes and Ladders." > 8. "Last Chance Lost." .... > 9. Lead Balloon > 10. Stay In Touch > 11. Blue Boy > 12. Tax Free > 13. Tea Leaf Prophecy > 14. Cool Water > 15. "The Windfall," > 16. Number One > 17. Reoccurring Dream > 18. Ladies Man > 19. "The Jungle Line" > 20. "yvette in english" > 21. "Underneath The Streetlight" > 22. Roses Blue: > 23. The Tenth World: > 24. Smokin' (Empty, Try Another): > 25. Nothing Can Be Done My chance to rebutt! 6. Good friends 10. Stay In Touch 14. Cool Water 19. "The Jungle Line" 20. "yvette in english" 23. The Tenth World 25. Nothing Can Be Done I defend every one of these songs. The Jungle Line was how many years before Simon's Graceland? Hello??? We are condeming her very genius here! Same with The Tenth World. Oh, and how about these lyrics... Rousseau walks on trumpet paths Safaris to the heart of all that jazz Through I bars and girders-through wires and pipes Through the mathematic circuits of the modern nights Through huts, through Harlem, through jails and gospel pews Through the class on Park and the trash on Vine Through Europe and the deep deep heart of Dixie blue Through savage progress cuts the jungle line I love what the collaborations of the other artists bring to Good Friends, Cool Water, Yvette in English and Nothing Can be Done. Stay in Touch, well, for sentimental reasons only, I guess, but what emotion you hear in Joni's voice. How long, how long...it seemed since Blue that we have heard this type of emotion. O.k., off my soapbox in Speaker's Corner. Next... Suze n.p. Wonderland, John Mayer ____________________________________________________________ Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:55:16 EDT From: CDTraderJohn@aol.com Subject: Vine Offer: Joni 11/30/69 PBS-TV Los Angeles SUBJECT: New Vine Offer: Joni 11/30/69 PBS-TV Los Angeles Please read this ENTIRE MESSAGE before responding to this offer. Please retain this e-mail for future reference. You will need it when you re-offer this Perma-Vine disc to the next recipient. I will accept two Perma-Viners who respond to this message with their complete name and mailing address, their promise to re-offer the vine disc promptly on JMDL, and their promise to burn at least one copy for a burnerless member. This is a Perma-Vine offer for Joni's appearance on public TV in Los Angeles on 11/30/69 (if anyone has additional details, I will gladly add them here). In order to participate in this Perma-Vine you MUST be able to burn a copy of the vine disc for yourself (you may NOT keep the vine disc). You must then re-offer the ORIGINAL VINE DISC on JMDL and forward it onto the next recipient within a few days of your receipt. It must be re-offered exclusively on the JMDL list. Upon choosing the next recipient of this Perma-Vine, you MUST then post the recipient's name and e-mail address to JMDL. (A typical closing post would read: Vine offer closed. John Smith (johnsmith@abc.com) has agreed to continue this Vine on JMDL) Should a point come when there is NO response on JMDL after TWO postings, you may offer this Perma-Vine disc to another group but you MUST post that information on JMDL so others will know of the change. ******** NOTE: In addition to being able to burn a copy for yourself, YOU FURTHER AGREE to burn at least one copy for a burnerless JMDL member and offer it through a posting on the group. You may, if you desire, offer copies to more than one person. You may also trade this show, but only after you have forwarded the ORIGINAL vine disc to the next recipient. ******** Here is the track information: Joni Mitchell PBS-TV Los Angeles November 30, 1969 1) Chelsea Morning 2) Cactus Tree 3) Night in the City 4) Marcie/Nathan LaFraneer 5) Two Houses (medley: Rainy Night House/Blue Boy) 6) For Free 7) Get Together 8) The Fiddle and the Drum 9) I Think I Understand 10) Both Sides Now NOTE: This offer is being made as a Perma-Vine to ensure that all participants, no matter how far down the line, have the opportunity to obtain a clean, glitch-free copy of this wonderful show. If this offer goes well, I intend to offer more shows here in the future. I hope you enjoy it as much as I have! John Epstein CDTraderJohn@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:05:51 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Lakota, the story behind the song .Joni writes: He has just finished when > we hear this clap of thunder. He and I rush to the back door and standing > on the back steps, we see coming down the telephone wire - a golden ball of > lightning - riding on the lines and its coming straight at the building. > > I run into the studio and yell, "Get the tapes off the heads!" That > electrical storm was only in Santa Monica - nowhere else in L.A. I'd never > seen ball lightning before. I haven't seen it since." > Since electricity travels at the speed of light, then Joni must have run into the studio faster! Super hero powers? Joni a mutant? Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:13:45 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: THE COMPLETE GEFFEN RECORDINGS, liner notes, 100% JC Here's another set of notes from Joni in THE COMPLETE GEFFEN RECORDINGS. This one is about "Smokin' (Empty, Try Another)" on the DOG EAT DOG collection. Joni said, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Out in the A&M (Records) parking lot was a cigarette machine and it wasn't well maintaned. I went out ther for a pack of smokes. I pressed my brand but the chamber was empty. The machine went "jinko-gwaaang-a-doo--hoo!" There was one little gear that made the little high sqeakey 'hoo!" Okay, my brand was out, so I hit my second favorite brand... "jinko-gwaaang-a-doo--hoo!" I hit my third favorite.. I hit every bgrand, even the menthol. Every time I pressed a button, a little square lit up and read, "Empty Try Another." So I went to Henry (Lewy) and we got a microphone with an extension chord (as writ). We ran the chord down the hall, into the parking lot and shove it up against the machine. I dropped in the coins again, 'cause that sounded good too. Then I played the machine for about five minutes... "jinko-gwaaang-a-doo--hoo!" At the end you can hear me taking the coins out. People think this was sampled but it was played. "What do you do, man?" "I play guitar, piano, and cigarette machines." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SCJoniguy listed among his duds:> 4. Smokin' (Empty, Try Another): Suffers from the exact opposite, too short, imo...I love Larry's bass throw-ins and would have loved to see where this could have gone with further explorlation; Bass, sampled Cig machine, and Joni's vocal. But as it's released, it's non-addictive.> All the best, Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:36:54 EDT From: Harry83house@aol.com Subject: GIRL IN THE PICTURE & Baez Bob, Thanks for sending GIRL IN THE PICTURE with the Joni sampling. It was fascinating and, just like when P.M. Dawn used "I Had A King," it makes me look at the original song again in a different way. At any rate, I think you're going to love Joan Baez tonight. She's quite a lady. I've seen her several times and its ALWAYS turned out to be quite an event. The first time was at the FOLK CITY 25th Anniversary concert on a pier in NYC. Joan was but one of MANY incredible acts that night (Violent Femmes, Suzanne Vega, Christine Lavin, Odetta, etc., etc.) I also saw her at the Garden State Arts Center, which is an open-sided venue where people can sit and picnic on the lawn. When it started to rain, she had people move up close to her on the stage so they wouldn't get wet. Saw her at a relatively recent Newport Folk Festival during a horribly rainy, windy storm and lightening struck the stage before she finished her set. But the best was at the Bottom Line and the Bitter End, two intimate clubs in the Village. One was her own show and the other was an "Inside the Actor's Studio" type show that DJ Vin Scelsa used to do where he would pick four musicians and interview them before a small audience. The musicians would often perform, as well. The night I saw this show the lineup was Baez, John Cale, Gordon Gano (of the Violent Femmes) and Natalie Merchant (10,000 Maniacs). At one point, each of them was asked to perform a song that they wished they had written and Baez stood up and did Aretha Franklin's "Do Right Woman, Do Right Man" while Natalie wept and the audience went wild. Interestingly, A&M Records have put out a box-set of all Joan's A&M records (including DIAMONDS & RUST), just like Geffen has with our Joni. Unlike Joni, though, Baez also has a new album out with new material. Has anyone heard it yet? Anyway, tonight, I hope you find her to be as funny, sexy, and intelligent as I have. Please let me know. Have fun and thanks again for the download! Harry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:00:49 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #311 In a message dated 05/10/2003 14:02:42 GMT Daylight Time, Paul in the Netherlands writes: << Well actually I think she is being extremely arrogant here. Why does Joni hate women? Why does she complain about how difficult it was for a female songwriter in late sixties, but at the same time is so incredibly unsupportive of the women of late eighties. What is she afraid of? What I think is cynical is that in another interview she says that she likes Norah Jones because she hears no ambition in her voice. Puh-leaze, what does Joni know about no ambition? >> I agree with you there Paul; it does seem to me that Joni is simultaneously aware of her huge talent, that she has scaled heights that nobody else has approached, AND insecure enough to rubbish the competition or to damn them with faint praise. << To tell you the truth, I think none of the eighties women songwriters were in Joni's league, except maybe Michelle Shocked, who came close. >> I agree in one way: that nobody who came along in the 80s was going to supplant Joni's position at the head of the singer-songwriter pantheon, overall. However I can certainly think of several songwriters who made records in the 80s that I consider to be superior to what Joni was producing over that period - including one about whom Joni has been famously uncomplimentary: Suzanne Vega. I'd sooner listen to her first two albums than any of Joni's 80s works. I think Aimee Mann is a major talent, as she was showing with Til Tuesday, whose second and third albums, again, rate higher in my book than Dog eat Dog (my favourite 80s) Joni album. I'd even venture the heretical suggestion that Madonna's Like A Prayer album is a more accomplished piece of work than DED. << The nineties I think saw two songwriters who are in Joni's league -- Ani Difranco and Dar Williams. She might as well acknowledge it. The fact that in 1998 she had never even heard of Ani, shows that she might not at all be the best judge when it comes to contemporary songwriting. >> I see your point there too, though personally I'm not a big fan of Ani or Dar. For me the 90s saw the fruition of two colossal talents who can actually give Joni a good run for money, and whose 90s work wipes the floor with anything Joni has done since the 70s: Jane Siberry and Shawn Colvin. The latter has the obvious Joni connection (working with Larry Klein), while Joni can hardly fail to be aware of Siberry, another maverick Canadian genius. Does anyone know if Joni has ever said anything on record about Sib? Azeem in London NP: Richard Thompson - The Old Kit Bag (A rare example of someone whose singing is getting better and better as he gets older) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 12:06:24 -0400 (EDT) From: notaro@stpt.usf.edu Subject: Re: GIRL IN THE PICTURE & Baez Quoting Harry83house@aol.com: > Baez also has a new album out with new material. Has anyone heard it > yet? > Anyway, tonight, I hope you find her to be as funny, sexy, and > intelligent as I > have. Please let me know. I had an Advance copy early on. It is called Dark Chords on a Big Guitar and it is wonderful. It has 2 Gillian Wech and David Rawlings compositions and a Ryan Adams, so no one can say she is stale at all. Another campaign she has waged for years is low ticket prices. I've seen her dozens of times live over the years and doubt I have ever paid more than 20.00 for a ticket. She has always been a musical and political hero of mine, remaining so over nearly 40 years. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 18:29:14 +0200 From: "Paul Mepschen" Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #311 Aimee Mann, yes -- I forgot about her. She is definitely among the majors. Also, though I do actually like Dog Eat Dog, I agree with Azeem's point that some of the songwriters Joni is dismissing made more sense overall than Joni's eighties work. I must admit that I love Dar Williams. I guess I even listen to her work more than to Joni's. RIght now, expecially the first and the last album. I saw her in London last week, had a great time. Has Joni ever mentioned Dar, one wonders. Paul of the Netherlands ----- Original Message ----- From: AzeemAK@aol.com To: pjh_mepschen@hotmail.com ; joni@smoe.org Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 6:00 PM Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #311 In a message dated 05/10/2003 14:02:42 GMT Daylight Time, Paul in the Netherlands writes: << Well actually I think she is being extremely arrogant here. Why does Joni hate women? Why does she complain about how difficult it was for a female songwriter in late sixties, but at the same time is so incredibly unsupportive of the women of late eighties. What is she afraid of? What I think is cynical is that in another interview she says that she likes Norah Jones because she hears no ambition in her voice. Puh-leaze, what does Joni know about no ambition? >> I agree with you there Paul; it does seem to me that Joni is simultaneously aware of her huge talent, that she has scaled heights that nobody else has approached, AND insecure enough to rubbish the competition or to damn them with faint praise. << To tell you the truth, I think none of the eighties women songwriters were in Joni's league, except maybe Michelle Shocked, who came close. >> I agree in one way: that nobody who came along in the 80s was going to supplant Joni's position at the head of the singer-songwriter pantheon, overall. However I can certainly think of several songwriters who made records in the 80s that I consider to be superior to what Joni was producing over that period - including one about whom Joni has been famously uncomplimentary: Suzanne Vega. I'd sooner listen to her first two albums than any of Joni's 80s works. I think Aimee Mann is a major talent, as she was showing with Til Tuesday, whose second and third albums, again, rate higher in my book than Dog eat Dog (my favourite 80s) Joni album. I'd even venture the heretical suggestion that Madonna's Like A Prayer album is a more accomplished piece of work than DED. << The nineties I think saw two songwriters who are in Joni's league -- Ani Difranco and Dar Williams. She might as well acknowledge it. The fact that in 1998 she had never even heard of Ani, shows that she might not at all be the best judge when it comes to contemporary songwriting. >> I see your point there too, though personally I'm not a big fan of Ani or Dar. For me the 90s saw the fruition of two colossal talents who can actually give Joni a good run for money, and whose 90s work wipes the floor with anything Joni has done since the 70s: Jane Siberry and Shawn Colvin. The latter has the obvious Joni connection (working with Larry Klein), while Joni can hardly fail to be aware of Siberry, another maverick Canadian genius. Does anyone know if Joni has ever said anything on record about Sib? Azeem in London NP: Richard Thompson - The Old Kit Bag (A rare example of someone whose singing is getting better and better as he gets older) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 09:46:08 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Joni cracks me up... Bryan quoted Joni: > "Tracy Chapman wrote a coupla good songs, but generally speaking > she's not that musically gifted. And Suzanne Vega, well..." It must be one of the most depressing, disheartening things for a singer-songwriter to be dissed by Joni Mitchell. Didn't it make Alanis Morrisette cry? Anyway, while I'm not a "huge" Suzanne Vega fan, I really like her first (self-titled) album. And one of my very favorite cassette tapes is one I recorded back in 1985, which has "Suzanne Vega" on one side and "Dog Eat Dog" on the other ... : ) Lori ~ http://lrfye.lunarpages.com ~ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:51:25 EDT From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Joni and the other Girls In a message dated 10/5/2003 12:02:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AzeemAK@aol.com writes: I'd sooner listen to her first two albums than any of Joni's 80s works. I think Aimee Mann is a major talent, as she was showing with Til Tuesday, whose second and third albums, again, rate higher in my book than Dog eat Dog Interestingly, Aimee is one songwriter about whom Joni had some positive things to say. Something like "she dares to put the anxiety back into songwriting." Aimee's style is less similar to Joni's than, say Shawn Colvin; but like Joni, she has a real gift for metaphor and command of language. For example, this snippet which is definitely Joni-worthy: "as we were speaking of the devil you walked right in wearing hubris like a medal you revel in but its me at whom you'll level your javelin." As for Suzanne Vega, I have to agree with Joni. Though I like a few of her songs, I could see why Joni would bristle at the comparison in singing and songwriting here. Vega's vocal style is always right ontop of the mike, always with the same dimension to her voice. I think she really achieved alot with a limited talent, IMO and please, no offense to her fans, here. It's just my take on her. Conversely, Patty Griffin is an incredibly gifted songwriter and singer who has been "missed" by the masses and has not really been given the recognition she deserves. She has had more brilliant stuff shelved by stupid record companies than Madonna has put out in a lifetime. (thanks to Chris, aka whizboom, for sending me Griffin's Silver Bell which was shelved and has to be the best singer-songwriter output that year) If Joni wants to have her 80's stuff reconsidered, she should put out an unplugged CD. The acoustic versions of the DED stuff (thanks again whizboom) from the rock master class are stellar. The problem here is that there are a lot of small names with big talents coming along, and while Joni may justly choose to fight the battles of comparison to the morisette's and vega's of the world, she losing out by not keeping with her own artistic exploration. You're bound to lose if you let the blues (or bitterness or fear) get you scared to feel (or write, or love, or create). Ken H ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 13:39:51 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: re:Lakota > >Lakota came to life for me on the '88 San Remo > >Songfest disc. She does an acoustic Lakota that > >is breathtaking. It allows the lyric to shine and > >Joni's emotive singing is beyond Joniesque. > >Does anyone have this recording who would be willing to send it to me? Bob I tried to e-mail you twice yesterday off-list. It comes back saying undeliverable?! Anyway..I was wondering if you have this? Bree >Marian >Vienna _________________________________________________________________ Share your photos without swamping your Inbox. Get Hotmail Extra Storage today! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 10:32:46 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Duds - long bob s? I can see that...I guess in essence there are two MAJOR categories, words and music, and several sub-categories in each.< when copyrighting a song there are only music & lyrics for category...but when writing a song the three variables for me are lyrics, music, & groove as each one can change a song dramatically ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:57:27 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and the other Girls In a message dated 05/10/2003 17:52:47 GMT Daylight Time, KJHSF@aol.com writes: << The problem here is that there are a lot of small names with big talents coming along, and while Joni may justly choose to fight the battles of comparison to the morisette's and vega's of the world, she losing out by not keeping with her own artistic exploration. >> My God, how could I forget Nanci Griffith?? She was doing stunning work in the 80s, a mixture of her and other people's songs to be sure, though indisputably a great singer-songwriter. Azeem in London NP: Nanci Grifith - Once In A Very Blue Moon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 14:08:56 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Joni and the other Girls >Conversely, Patty Griffin is an incredibly gifted songwriter and singer who >has been "missed" by the masses and has not really been given the >recognition >she deserves. Yes..thanks to the list and particularily Kate for turning me on to Patty Griffiin. >If Joni wants to have her 80's stuff reconsidered, she should put out an >unplugged CD. The acoustic versions of the DED stuff (thanks again >whizboom) from >the rock master class are stellar. "Dreamland coming on......." and Ken.. how about a tour to back up this unplugged CD? Just Joni and her guitar...oh..slip a few piano songs in every once and awhile too. ;-) AN EVENING WITH JONI MITHCHELL: Just Joni..no Bob..no Van..small venue. IF she wanted she could even share some stories behind the songs. Maybe a question and answer segment? We could settle the "notches" "masking tape" What's with Dancin Clown..Joni?!! Did you really beat the blank out of the maid? Dreamland coming on......... Bree >You're bound to lose if you let the blues (or bitterness or fear) get you >scared to feel (or write, or love, or create). > >Ken H _________________________________________________________________ Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your existing Internet access and enjoy patented spam protection and more. Sign up now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/byoa ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:23:00 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: THE COMPLETE GEFFEN RECORDINGS, liner notes, 100% JC