From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #309 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, October 3 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 309 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- re: Pirates of Penance and No Apologies ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Pirates of Penance and No Apologies [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Last Chance Lost/Joni Duds [KJHSF@aol.com] Re: crystal waters sjc [FMYFL@aol.com] More Covers Giveaway craziness! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni "duds" [Deb Messling ] Unfettered and Alive ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: Joni "duds" ["Cynthia Vickery" ] Re: Joni "duds" [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: More Covers Giveaway craziness! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: rate your music ["StephenToogood" ] BBC IN CONCERT [PAUL LOGAN ] Re: American Indian song subject ["StephenToogood" ] Walter Becker's Musings on Joni [Lindsay Moon ] Joni duds [] Re: Joni duds ["Mark or Travis" ] buy the farm . . . in baljennie near joni's old home town! [Murphycopy@ao] Sundry comments... [zenpop@mindspring.com] Re: Sundry comments...(SJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Joni duds [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Pirates of Penance and No Apologies ["mia ortlieb" Subject: re: Pirates of Penance and No Apologies mia >This song is so dreamy, beautiful and hypnotic. Those key changes.....and those harmonies, sometimes together and sometimes drifting into a sort of polyphony. This is one of those songs that I'm constantly hitting the repeat button for on my CD player.< me too, i love it & the vocal harmonies & counter harmonies are chill factor...its kind of broadway musical to me... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 06:59:12 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Joni duds In a message dated 02/10/2003 03:13:12 GMT Daylight Time, hvnphun16@hotmail.com writes: << "No Apologies" is a great song, too. >> To me it's half a great song; the first verse is tight, focused and full of righteous indignation; after that it loses focus and becomes a generalised moan. And I *still* find it jarring that that first verse about a wartime atrocity leads into a chorus about loan sharks and lawyers laying the country to waste. Pure bathos! << I guess if I had to pick a dud, I'd go with "Dancing Clown," "Good Friends," or "Snakes and Ladders." But, similar to what you once said before, a dud on a Joni-scale is still a great song when compared to another artist's collection. >> Agree with you about Dancing Clown (which I would categorise as a dud in "real terms" and not just by Joni's standards!) and Snakes & Ladders, and I'd add Number One and Reoccurring Dream from Chalk Mark as not meeting her usual benchmark. I've always liked Good Friends, though. It's *very* pop, and as such works very well to these ears; and I love the duetting with Michael McDonald, which seems much more organic than having Don Henley on Snakes & Ladders, Azeem in London NP: Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds (backed by the "Moron Tabernacle Choir") - The Curse of Millhaven. It's a grey Thursday morning, so listening to Murder Ballads just seemed like the right thing to do :-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 07:10:20 EDT From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #308 In a message dated 10/2/2003 3:01:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: Chris' Joni Duds.... 1.Lead Balloon 2.Dancin' Clown 3.Stay In Touch 4.Blue Boy (it just irritates the shit out of me, always has...) 5.Tax Free I'll stop at 5.... But will add a few runners up... 6.Tea Leaf Prophecy 7.Cool Water - - -Chris Stay In Touch is about as fine a song that Joni has ever written ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 07:31:26 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni duds In a message dated 10/2/2003 7:00:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, AzeemAK@aol.com writes: Agree with you about Dancing Clown (which I would categorise as a dud in "real terms" and not just by Joni's standards!) and Snakes & Ladders, and I'd add Number One and Reoccurring Dream from Chalk Mark as not meeting her usual benchmark. I'll 2nd, 3rd, & 4th that statement Azeem. I forget why I don't play CMIARS very often, and you just reminded me. With the exception of a few songs on that CD, CMIARS *is* Joni's duds imo. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 07:48:26 EDT From: JSerkes@aol.com Subject: (no subject) "Good Friends," must have been one that Joni dug, cause its the first thing we hear one the cd (album for most of us). I loved it, it set the stage for Dog Eat Dog" Nyrogrl CrossEyed Productions 314.378.6052 "seeing things differently" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 08:17:06 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Covers #45 Step right up, everyone's a winner.... OK, well not everyone, but ONE at least. Whoever gets the closest to the song printed in the hermetically sealed envelope wins a copy of the FABOO Joni Covers #45 + an Eastmountain South promo CD + a surprise Joni bonus! You veterans know how to play...for you newbies, here's what you do - just send me an email (offlist) and guess a song on one of Joni's albums, be sure and name both song & album, for instance: Michael From Mountains - Song To A Seagull That's all you have to do. I'll take guesses until Sunday midnight and announce a winner Monday AM. What better way to start your week than to hear that all these freebies are coming your way? Bob NP: Donald Fagen, "Chain Lightning" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 08:42:15 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Pirates of Penance and No Apologies > Bob, my mission now in life is to convert you into liking POP. Well, I suppose there are worse things one could do with their life... :~) Because I value your opinion very highly Mia, I promise to give this song some additional eartime, but I don't know what I'm going to hear that I haven't heard before. It really is annoying to me on a couple different levels. > This song is so dreamy, beautiful and hypnotic. Are we talking about the same song? It's probably the only song from STAS that most Joni fans couldn't sing off the top of their heads because the melody is so jarring and inaccessible. While I appreciate the complexity of it, it sinks itself with it's own harmonic gimmickry. > Those key changes.....and those harmonies, sometimes together and sometimes > drifting into a sort of polyphony. We agree on this, but you see them as strengths, while I see them as weaknesses. Like, "how many key changes/chord changes/rhythmic changes/harmonic devices can I fit in 4 minutes"? It's Zappa-esque in that way, I think...at the end of the day there's not much to grasp. And speaking of not much to grasp, what about the song lyrically? I mean, what in THE HELL is it about? The 'Dancer' meets up with/ falls for the 'sailor/pirate' who then becomes 'Penance' (or not, maybe Penance is some kind of Greek chorus or something), then before you know it, 'Penance' says they're nowhere near the murder place...WHAT? Someone's been murdered? Who? The Dancer? No, because now she's in some kind of dazed stupor repeating "I don't know, I don't know..." so maybe she wasn't really murdered but just had the sense knocked out of her. (OK, I'm getting kind of silly now). But the bottom line is that this one is cryptic, but unlike the songs on HOSL I don't really care what any of it means! So Mia, you have an interesting "mission" on your hands. Perhaps one for "Mission:Impossible"! ;~) Bob NP: Julee Cruise, "Summer Kisses, Winter Tears" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 08:30:21 -0500 From: Steve Polifka Subject: re: Pirates of Penance and No Apologies -- now Joni duds Shear Lunacy! All of you! What Joni duds, I ask you; what? Dancin' Clown? LCL? NA? GF??? (One of my absolute faves which I will be doing at the next Jonifest, BTW.) I have yet to hear a Joni dud.(Well, okay, maybe Travelogue, but it is a rehash...) ;-) Dancin' Clown- simple fun, a great yarn. Last Chance Lost - when I first heard that song, I cried "Yes! It's about time!" Something about the way she sang that line - I got it without trying. No Apologies - Military heartlessness wrapped up in the same type of music. as someone said, brilliant. (It is not a favorite, but I do appreciate it.) Good Friends - total 80's pop- I love it, I have friends like that, and Michael McD is great. So there. (insert evil grin here) Steve At 08:06 PM 10/1/2003 -0700, Lori Fye wrote: >> "Pirate of Penance" from her debut is pretty much of a dud, and "No >> Apologies" from TTT is preachier than Lakota and Ethiopia, and offers >> even less melodic interest. > >I'm with Mia. I love POP and No Apologies! > >If I were to pick a dud off the top of my head, it would have to >be "Last Chance Lost." It kind of grates on my nerves. > >What's YOUR choice of Joni dud(s)? > > >Lori > >~ >http://lrfye.lunarpages.com >~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 09:35:35 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Pirates of Penance and No Apologies Thanks much for your post, Jamie...very helpful. I suppose one of the drawbacks for me is that while she has it libretto'd to make you believe that it is a mini-play of kinds, there's not enough difference in the vocals to convey that. Additionally, Joni had so many songs that were stronger than this one going into her first session that I feel like she was hasty in including it. I would be delighted to have heard "Blue On Blue", "A Melody In Your Name", or especially "Just Like Me" (which could have been tremendously successful I think as a single) in its place. But at least you've helped this simple fool understand the storyline! I never mind putting my ignorance on display; it's the best way to learn. ;~) Bob NP: Jane Siberry, "Calling All Angels" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:38:50 EDT From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Last Chance Lost/Joni Duds I absolutely love this song. It may be my favorite on TI. I think it is Joni at her best. The guitar playing is wonderful, her voice, while husky, has some real strength to it still, the words are honed down to poetic perfection and her overlapped harmonies on the brief chorus are what I like best about Joni's work-the ability she has to nail intricate and difficult musical intervals, 2nds, 4ths, 9ths, etc. I have to echo the sentiment of whoever said they heard this and thought it was a real return to form for Joni. Ken H ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:56:19 -0400 From: Dave Cuneo Subject: Joni "duds" Ciao Joniphiles, For me at least her biggest dud is "Jungle Line". I think this is the song that turned off many of her previous fans and began the career "descent". People suddenly realized she had clay feet. Which is somewhat ironic because the rest of the album is so good, and the first cut, (IFTKOMS) is so obviously an attempt at commercial success, similar to "Help Me" and "You Turn Me On I'm a Radio". I don't think she ever recovered from that song, careerwise. I know it took me until the early 90's to finally begin to listen to HOSL again and appreciate it's quality. This is true for everything that came after it as well - early to mid 90's before I listened again. And I was a HUGE Joni fan after FTR and C&S. Ciao, dave. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 09:54:55 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Pirates of Penance and No Apologies As Jamie's post to the list did not get through, I'm sending it on his behalf: > I love this song! It's a typical folk song, more in the vein of those lovely traditional English song-plays that were popular (at some point!). I can imagine someone like the McGarrigle's covering this as it would need more difference in the voices or maybe Eliza Carthy and her mum covering it. > > It concerns two women who have both fallen in love with a pirate who comes to port every so often and i just so happens that he is two-timing them. There is the Dancer and Penance Crane and the pirate. From the arguments that Penace Crane give, it would seem that the Dancer was the one who murdered the Pirate. We mainly hear Penance Crane as she has the louder voice in the mix and the Dancer get's second billing as the softer counter-melody. I know who I believe in terms of who actually murdered the Pirate but listen to it and come up with your own conclusion. Not a dud in my books. Just beautiful and beautifully written. I think the chord/key/metre changes are due to the changes in character, with 2 women singing it makes sense. It's a bugger to singer solo btw, as I've > tried!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:55:14 EDT From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Last Chance Lost/Joni Duds In a message dated 10/2/2003 9:46:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jamie.zubairi@metrosafety.co.uk writes: how many voices are there harmonising? I count 3 on top of hers but I can't tell!!!!! I'm thinking there are three other voices on top of the lead. I'll dig out the sheet music and look at the chord itself and see if I can figure it out. I have good memories of singing it in the car with a friend out in Cali (who became a Joni fan of sorts) who could always pull out and harmonize the odd note that gives the chord it's tension. It's really cool to hear yourself in part of a choral sound when the harmonics are so broad and fun! For more amazing broad choral harmonic structure, I say check out the Bulgarian Women's Choir. Kate Bush did some work with them a while ago to brilliant effect, and I had been listening to them prior to that and seen them perform. They absolutely nail you to the wall when they open up and sing these incredible chords that, while very old and traditional, modulate at times like contemporary music. Ken h Ken H ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:58:29 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: crystal waters sjc In a message dated 10/2/2003 9:04:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy writes: >Paging Jimmy Stewart - bring in some back-up bro! I'll back you up all the way on this *twisted* issue. > ">What's so strange when you know that you're a wizard at 3..." I just cringe when Crystal sings that line. It gives me the fantods, and my dogs hide under the bed. She's just plain FLAT !!! I'd rather hear Roseanne sing the "Star Spangled Banner". But, I really like the rest of the CD. LOL IMO nobody (including Joni or Annie Ross) sings "Twisted" as well as Bette! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 10:25:29 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: More Covers Giveaway craziness! Since #45 is so cool, I just can't bear keeping it all to myself, so I want to give more copies away. Therefore, freebies will also go to: The first one to mail me who has a Tennessee address; The first one to mail me whose LAST name starts with the letter "C". Go for it, and you too can decide...Crystal Waters, flat or phat! :~) Bob NP: Nat King Cole, When I Take My Sugar To Tea" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:00:21 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Joni "duds" Wow, I don't know what to say! "The Jungle Line" is one of my favorite songs; certainly it's my favorite HOSL song. The melody and the lyric are intriguing, Joni's singing is first-rate, and I love those drums. Of course, I'm weird, so I like Joni's "weird" stuff. I even love "The Wolf Who Lives in Lindsey." Duds? Most of my picks have been mentioned: The Windfall, Number One, Dancing Clown. I would add: Ladies Man At 09:56 AM 10/2/2003 -0400, you wrote: > For me at least her biggest dud is "Jungle Line". I think this is the >song that turned off many of her previous fans and began the career >"descent". - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:27:35 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Unfettered and Alive Hi everyone, I was listening to my smooth jazz station yesterday morning when the radio personality, Al Santos, made a statement and used the phrase "Unfettered and Alive". Well, I almost fell out of my chair! Since I am a loyal listener trying to win a free plane trip for two to the Bahammas, I immediately hopped on the email and wrote to him. I told him that he had to be a Joni fan to use that phrase! This is the second time I've corresponded with him and he was kind enough to reply this morning with an "Oh Yeah!" comment as his first words. He said that he plays Joni sometimes during his Sunday Brunch program. I told him how happy I was to hear that and requested "Yvette in English" when he could play it next time. I told him that I didn't care if I missed it, but I wanted other people to know about Joni. I also told him about the JMDL and how close knit we are. Amazing! Sherelle _________________________________________________________________ Instant message in style with MSN Messenger 6.0. Download it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:18:51 -0500 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: Re: Joni "duds" <> oh deb, me tooo!!!! "jungle line" was the only thing i listened to on HOSL until you guys on the list brow-beat me into giving the rest of the disc another chance. (embarrassingly enough, you guys were right - now it's my favorite joni disc!) and the much-despised "dancin' clown" is just plain fun, dang it! the joni-dancing-with-the-cat video catapulted this song into my list of favorites - it's just so full of joy! my "duds" - "yvette in english" - that annoyingly chirpy little repeating "yvette!" gives me hives. "last chance lost" - lyrically, this one is great. i just hate the drone-iness of the repeating "last chance lawwwwsssssttttttttt." "lakota" - heavy-handed and just yicky. most of travelouge - but that's another story for another day! cindy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:23:09 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni "duds" > and the much-despised "dancin' clown" is just plain fun, dang it! > the joni-dancing-with-the-cat video catapulted this song > into my > list of favorites - it's just so full of joy! I'll admit to liking the video (with the sound turned down), and agree that it's fun & joyful, but why is the song itself fun? IMO if you want "fun" Joni, play "Raised On Robbery", with it's boogie-woogie beat and lines like "I'm a pretty good cook, sittin' on my groceries...come up to to my kitchen, I'll show you my best recipes..." Fun. Coyote (regardless who it's about) is another "fun" Joni song, again combining the playful interplay between her guitar and Jaco's bass, and several injections of humor. Fun. But "Dancin' Clown?" While the thinly-veiled plot is frivolous to be sure, Joni gives us 3 one-dimensional characters, that we know little about and therefore care nothing about. And musically it suffers from the worst of the 80's musical pop cliches; although I admire Steve Stephens guitar in the right setting, it's out of place here. Much more phony than funny. And for all the announcements about Tom Petty being here, he sings all of 5 words. Bob, wondering if Joni should have issued a "Duds" along with Hits & Misses? :~) NP: Graham Nash, "Simple Man" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:51:01 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: More Covers Giveaway craziness! > Am I too late??? Nope - right on time, Sue Cameron with a "C"! Send your address to me and Covers #45 is on its way...congrats! Bob NP: Joni, "Judgement of the Moon & Stars" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 18:50:25 +0100 From: "StephenToogood" Subject: Re: rate your music Yes this is a great site - came across it about a month ago. As you can see from the top 100 most of the users have great taste in music and Joni also appears in certain year top 100's quite high up. So far I've done a few reviews including a few of Joni's. ************** Steve T amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk "Red is autumn green is summer Greens are turning and the sand" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "mack watson-bush" To: "joni" Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 12:05 PM Subject: rate your music > Has anyone else found 'rate your music?' A fun website where one is able to > rate albums. I don't know how they come upon their ratings that are listed on > the main page but charles mingus' album 'the black saint and the sinner lady' > is rated number one. Dear Joan is at number 14 with 'Blue.' > > mack > > np: Daryl Hall-Can't Stop Dreaming. (Thank you, thank you, thank you > Sherelle Smith) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:08:06 -0700 From: PAUL LOGAN Subject: BBC IN CONCERT Did anyone in the UK happen to see & record this??? http://66.218.71.225/search/cache?p=joni+mitchell+on+bbc+4&sub=Search&url=Sz PhZMA5TTAJ:www.bleb.org/tv2/channel.html%3fch=bbc4%26all%26day=5 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 19:29:45 +0100 From: "StephenToogood" Subject: Re: American Indian song subject > >In the case of "Lakota", I think the Indian American thing is an issue that > is so easy to preach about that a lot of artists jump on the opportunity > (i.e. Enigma in "The Cross of Changes"). It kinda sickens me, actually. > - - Dylan< Well I think most of CMIARS is lousy full stop! However Tori Amos has done a good job with this subject on _Scarlet's Walk_. There is at least a reference in almost every song. Tori is part Cherokee so she really can see things from both sides. Here are the lyrics to "Wampum Prayer" from the album: In our hand an old old old thread Trail of Blood and Amens Greed is the gift for the sons of the sons Hear this prayer of the wampum This is the tie that will blind us NP: The Lamb Ran Away With The Crown (live) - Judee Sill ************** Steve T amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk "Red is autumn green is summer Greens are turning and the sand" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 19:47:50 +0100 From: "StephenToogood" Subject: Re: Joni "duds" "The Jungle Line" is marvellous! Hated it at first but love it now. You get the full effect with headphones. It's so original and I love the way Joni sings those lows. Also love "Pirate Of Penance". Those chords really set the mood for the story and the way Joni's sing up and down is amazing. Also sounds great with headphones. "No Apologies" - well okay it's by far not one of her best but definitely not a dud. The song sounds a bit MOR in places but really stands out for me on TTT. Oh no "Blue Boy" is a really beautiful sad song. At first I thought it quite weak with the rest of LOTC but know it has stood the test of time for me. "The Windfall" is one of the better songs on NRH. It can make me laugh sometimes but the music really emphasizes the lyrics. Okay real duds! Well I listened to "Dancing Clown" again the other day - OMG the things I do for Joni! Just as I remembered really terrible. I would feel insulted even if it was a bonus track. "Underneath The Streetlight" - no still nothing! NP: Blue Boy - Joni ************** Steve T amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk "Red is autumn green is summer Greens are turning and the sand" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deb Messling" To: Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 4:00 PM Subject: Re: Joni "duds" > Wow, I don't know what to say! "The Jungle Line" is one of my favorite > songs; certainly it's my favorite HOSL song. The melody and the lyric are > intriguing, Joni's singing is first-rate, and I love those drums. > > Of course, I'm weird, so I like Joni's "weird" stuff. I even love "The > Wolf Who Lives in Lindsey." > > Duds? Most of my picks have been mentioned: The Windfall, Number One, > Dancing Clown. I would add: Ladies Man > > > > > At 09:56 AM 10/2/2003 -0400, you wrote: > > For me at least her biggest dud is "Jungle Line". I think this is the > >song that turned off many of her previous fans and began the career > >"descent". > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Deb Messling -^..^- > messling@enter.net > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:15:36 -0700 From: Lindsay Moon Subject: Walter Becker's Musings on Joni My husband and I went and saw Steely Dan in concert last Friday and it was beyond wonderful. I have had their songs in my head ever since. Today I went to steelydan.com just to poke around and I hit the jackpot. Under the Words section is a section called wb's collected memos (Walter Becker, he and Donald Fagen are SD just in case you aren't familiar with their names). Under that is a memo called Keep the Gig Alive dated 5/97 in which Walter writes his manager Craig on ideas to keep their name before the public while they're taking so long to make their album (Two Against Nature I guess). I'll re-type: "1. Publicity stunt -- Have you been following this Joni Mitchell thing, where she finds her long-lost daughter? Now is that an incredible story or what?!!! Craig, you are my manager, Donald's manager too, let me ask you something: why doesn't something like that ever happen to one or both of us? Are we not men? Cut us, do we not bleed? Why don't we find out that we have long-lost daughters who just happen to be attractive fashion models or something like that? Just because Joni knows all those open tunings and maybe slept around a bit now and again, does that mean she is the only one? I sure hope not ... " http://www.steelydan.com/wbmemos.html Ha, ha! I was falling on the floor. He goes on with some other publicity ideas about infomercials on a public tv station, a modeling agency, and, well, eventually alludes to some great coffee, which might have sparked the whole thing in the first place. Very funny. My final thought on Steely Dan was why can't I be one of their back-up singers? I know all the words and harmonies. I have a mind for dense lyrics. I'd look pretty good in some tight black leather if I'd just knock off the Haagen Dasz for about a month ... Maybe I'll shoot for it by the time I'm 50. Okay, that gives me about 3 years to get into the music business. Hmmm. Lindsay ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 19:36:31 -0500 From: Subject: Joni duds Azeem wrote: "To me it's half a great song; the first verse is tight, focused and full of righteous indignation; after that it loses focus and becomes a generalised moan. And I *still* find it jarring that that first verse about a wartime atrocity leads into a chorus about loan sharks and lawyers laying the country to waste. Pure bathos!" Azeem, I feel exactly the same way about this song, and even wrote something very similar to your post when it first came out (although calling it "half a great song" is inspired!). I find most of "No Apologies" after the first verse, and especially the chorus, to be pure sloppiness on Joni's part. That doesn't happen often with her, so when it did, it was especially noticeable. I further found that this type of lapse (on this song, and "Taming the Tiger," to name a few) gave TTT an extremely uneven quality: a few brilliant songs (e.g., Stay in Touch), and some that were downright painful to listen to. In the context of what was going on in her life at the time (reunion with Kilauren and her grandchildren), and viewing TTT alongside her other artistic output (with the latter vastly superior, in my opinion), I took this as a sign that our Joan is tired of writing, and simply ready to move on. And so far, unfortunately, she hasn't proven me wrong. Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 18:30:30 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Joni duds > << "No Apologies" is a great song, too. >> > > To me it's half a great song; the first verse is tight, focused and > full of righteous indignation; after that it loses focus and becomes > a generalised > moan. And I *still* find it jarring that that first verse about a > wartime > atrocity leads into a chorus about loan sharks and lawyers laying the > country to waste. Pure bathos! See I think this is a great song. I think you miss the point if you focus on any of the specifics in it. My feeling is that she's trying to describe the arrogant, bully mentality that caused the rape of the Japanese girl and the subsequent lack of remorse shown by the American military. It's the same mentality that makes 'Juan' such a 'petty little tyrant' and drives those lawyers and loansharks. 'So what makes a man a man/in these tough times'. She does seem to be saying this is a masculine trait, asking if you have to be arrogant, insensitive and amoral to be considered a man worthy of respect. 'Snakes and snails and puppy tails are waggin' in the wound/beneath the trampled moon' She really resents the fact that humans have somehow defiled the moon, doesn't she? Anyway, that's what I think, fwiw. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 22:47:28 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: buy the farm . . . in baljennie near joni's old home town! Auction on Saturday, Oct. 4 http://www.kramerauction.ca/farm_equipment_restate/displaysale.php?ID=766 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 19:55:25 -0700 From: zenpop@mindspring.com Subject: Sundry comments... Bob wrote: > Happy October, y'all! With a new month comes a new edition of Joni > Covers, and since I seem to be going in numerical order I'll bring > out #45. Another fine addition to the JMDL family, and here's > what's on it: Wow, Bob this is amazing. (You do this every month?? -- a real labor of love). Thank you! - --- Jimmy wrote: > As for Crystal Waters, any of you dancing queens will remember her big > hit > "She's Homeless". It was a great dance song around 13 years ago. I > bought the > CD, but Bob's right. Her version of "Twisted" is absolutely > HORRIBLE!!!! > She's so frickin flat! What disc is her version of Twisted on, Jimmy (or Bob)? I actually like Waters's earlier LPs. The Storyteller disc (with the big hit 100% Pure Love) kicked butt. The production, for a dance/hip hop mode, was really freaky and edgy. A lot of fun -- check out her smooth sampling of Laura's Stoned Soul Picnic on that disc's second single: Ghetto Day. - ---- Jenny wrote: > Since I'm not going to get the box set just yet, I decided it's time I > listen to Dog Eat Dog. The CD has been sitting in it's shrink wrap > since February or so, waiting for me to get the courage to delve in. > I figure I'm an adult now, I can handle it right? LOL!!!!!!!!!!! > > I'm only about half way through, and to my surprise I'm getting such a > kick out of it. It's cracking me up really because this coming from > the artist who released such timeless and forward-thinking albums as > C&S, Hissing, and Hejira. Now here's Dog Eat Dog which is so utterly > and exquisitely 1985. So well put, Jenny. Too, I was thinking the same thing the other day: the album is quintessential '85. That's one of the central things that bothers me about it. The earlier albums have a timeless quality to them (all great works of art do, don't you think?) -- where DED just evokes big hair and spandex. > So I get in the car to go to work where Hissing is playing (and has > been pretty much nonstop since June) Wow! what sort of job do you go to where a single album is playing nonstop like that? Cool. > And so much of DED (though not all) is so on the beat...so white... Ouch! - ----- Mingus wrote: > > Privately probing the public rooms > And peeking through keyholes in numbered doors > Where the players lick their wounds > And take their temporary lovers > And their pills and powders to get them through this passion play > No regrets, Coyote > > Well, this to me sounds to be referring to the someone participating > in gay > activities of those times, looking for sex in public bathrooms (you > know, > kind of like George Michael), bookstores and bath houses for quick > anonymous sex. Oh wow! I never considered the lyrics in that light before. Brilliant! > Do you think she was saying he may have been delving into those > activities > while he was with her? Gays did a lot of pills and powders during the > disco > 70's. This could be why leaving wasn't her fault, she just couldn't > deal with it. > She did out Geffen in "Free Man in Paris." What part of "Free Man..." are your making reference to, Mingus? - ---- NP: Dido White Flag from Life For Rent - --- Frederick ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 23:31:32 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Sundry comments...(SJC) In a message dated 10/2/2003 10:56:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, zenpop@mindspring.com writes: What disc is her version of Twisted on, Jimmy (or Bob)? I actually like Waters's earlier LPs. The Storyteller disc (with the big hit 100% Pure Love) kicked butt. The production, for a dance/hip hop mode, was really freaky and edgy. A lot of fun -- check out her smooth sampling of Laura's Stoned Soul Picnic on that disc's second single: Ghetto Day. Hi Frederick, The CD that I have which "Twisted" is on is from Crystal's "Surprise" CD, but as much as I love "She's Homeless" or it's also called "Gypsy Woman".......it's best to get her greatest hits which has "She's Homeless" and "100% Pure Love".....but luckily no "Twisted". and yes good ole Bob Muller has been putting the covers project out each month for over 3 years now, and I have the entire collection...............and you can get it too! Jimmy, a fan of Muller's Covers and a fan of Murphy's "Joni in Fiction" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 00:10:48 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni duds Lori wrote: > If I were to pick a dud off the top of my head, it would have to > be "Last Chance Lost." It kind of grates on my nerves. > > What's YOUR choice of Joni dud(s)? > Lori, I understand where you're coming from - before they converted, my daughter and wife hated this song. I wonder if they have changed (will change ?) their minds now that they are in the fold ;-) However, it is one of my favorites on TI, musically as well as lyrically. Illustrating once again the high general quality of Joni's work - that even the songs we do not care for are admired as well as liked by others among the cognoscenti. Feeling constrained my my own theory, I shall decline your request to list my non-favorites as "duds". On the other hand, I suppose it's possible that my admiration for LCL is merely an application of (Bob) Murphy's mantra - 'there's no accounting for taste' :-) Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 23:43:39 -0500 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: Re: Pirates of Penance and No Apologies (now whining) But Bob, the lyrics aren't cryptic at all. It's a simple murder mystery. Okay, picture this: A stage divided in half. Penance on one side, and the dancer on the other side. Both women are being questioned by detectives simultaneously. You don't hear the detectives speak, only the women's voices. If you look at the lyrics on JMDL, you can read each woman's alibi separately to get a better feel for what is being said. The women are not speaking to each other, nor do they hear each other, but because this is all going on simultaneously, Joni brings their voices together, and very cleverly so. Mia _________________________________________________________________ Share your photos without swamping your Inbox. Get Hotmail Extra Storage today! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 00:50:53 -0400 From: "Christopher Treacy" Subject: Re: Pirates of Penance and No Apologies Not to mention, the vocal performance is pedal-point singing, hard to pull off and flawlessly executed.... - -Chris - ----- Original Message ----- From: "mia ortlieb" To: Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 12:43 AM Subject: Re: Pirates of Penance and No Apologies > (now whining) But Bob, the lyrics aren't cryptic at all. It's a simple > murder mystery. > > Okay, picture this: A stage divided in half. Penance on one side, and the > dancer on the other side. Both women are being questioned by detectives > simultaneously. You don't hear the detectives speak, only the women's > voices. If you look at the lyrics on JMDL, you can read each woman's alibi > separately to get a better feel for what is being said. The women are not > speaking to each other, nor do they hear each other, but because this is all > going on simultaneously, Joni brings their voices together, and very > cleverly so. > > Mia > > _________________________________________________________________ > Share your photos without swamping your Inbox. Get Hotmail Extra Storage > today! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #309 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)