From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #308 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, October 2 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 308 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: "Shades of Scarlet..." continued... [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: "Shades of Scarlet..." continued... ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #495 [Catherine Finn ] Joni Covers, Volume 45 - Tricks and Treats! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: "Shades of Scarlett..." continued... now "Electricity" [lfye@cresapar] Re: Joni Covers, Volume 45 - Tricks and Treats! [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Joni Covers, Volume 45 - Tricks and Treats! [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: "Shades of Scarlett..." continued... now "Electricity" ["Cynthia Vick] Re: "Shades of Scarlett..." continued... now "Electricity" [Murphycopy@ao] synthesized like magic [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: "Shades of Scarlett..." continued... now "Electricity" [lfye@cresapar] RE: "Shades of Scarlett..." continued... (long) [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: Test your Joni IQ!! Answers. [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni Covers, Volume 45 - Tricks and Treats! [Jerry Notaro ] Joni Covers, Volume 45 - Tricks and Treats! ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: "Shades of Scarlett..." continued... now "Electricity" [Catherine McK] Nyrogrl needs your help [JSerkes@aol.com] Re: "Shades of Scarlett..." [Scott Price ] re: Pirates of Penance and No Apologies ["mia ortlieb" ] RE: "Shades of Scarlett..." continued... now "Electricity" ["Lama, Jim L'] Re: Pirates of Penance and No Apologies -- now Joni "duds" [Murphycopy@ao] Re: preachy ? [Bobsart48@aol.com] RE: Test your Joni IQ! [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Today in History: October 2 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: October 2 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: Test your Joni IQ! ["kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:13:46 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: "Shades of Scarlet..." continued... Lama writes: << When Scarlet used the drapes to make a gown she "stole" from her beloved Tara. >> Every time this comes up, I can't help but remember one of the best laughs TV ever gave me: Carol Burnett's hilarious parody of GWTW, in which she wore the gown made of draperies with the curtain rod was running across her shoulders! I'm sure you "had to see it," but I you did, I bet you haven't forgotten it. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 07:28:29 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: "Shades of Scarlet..." continued... Lama writes: > ><< When Scarlet used the drapes to make a gown she "stole" from her beloved > >Tara. >> BOB this was also one of my favorite's. I even remember the draperies being green. Thinking of your classic Sunset Boulevard parody.......brings me to Carol Burnett's parody of the same. What great and entertaining television. I don't think any tv comedy since has been able to match her or much of the sixties or seventies comedy shows. Maybe I should say as consistently? Bree >Every time this comes up, I can't help but remember one of the best laughs >TV >ever gave me: Carol Burnett's hilarious parody of GWTW, in which she wore >the >gown made of draperies with the curtain rod was running across her >shoulders! >I'm sure you "had to see it," but I you did, I bet you haven't forgotten >it. > > --Bob _________________________________________________________________ Get McAfee virus scanning and cleaning of incoming attachments. Get Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 09:26:10 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Test Your Joni IQ!! Answers Lama, I like Lori's composite idea, and I think it's very cool that you saw the Rolling thunder revue in Rochester. If it makes you feel better, I know I was at the Shadows and Light concert at madison square garden and can't remember a stinkin note. I'm in shock that my brain even survived the 70s!!!! :-) Rest your fingers dude, you deserve it. take care, sue At 12:20 AM -0400 10/1/03, Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: >Mac, >I think our Joan was in Cellophane Mode and ill on that tour. There was a >circus / medicine show environment on that tour so almost anyone could have >been a coyote on any given night. > >Maybe it was Ramblin' Jack Elliot on an off-night backstreet in Altoona, >Pennsylvania observed from down the hall by a travel-sick Singer-Songwriter. > >Personally though, I don't think it was inspired by the Rolling Thunder >thing. Joni's barely in Shepard's book, "The Rolling Thunder Log" and from >Simon's table of Appearances, I was lucky to see her on that tour. I think >she actually did Coyote on that tour. It seems like many dim years ago but >my flickering memory was what ever song she did in Rochester, New York's War >Memorial was an honest-to-God-radio-hit-of-the-moment and was either >"Coyote" or "Amelia". Coyote fits the upbeat, driving-tune memory better... > >Lama, feeling like I'm going to be almost single-handedly responsible for >Digest #495 in 3 hours. > > >>>>So the question is how many men have been >speculated as Coyote: I've heard Dylan, Robbie >Robertson, now Sam Shepherd. I guess you could >take the list of all the men who were in the >Rolling Thunder Revue and shake them up in your >hat and pick one. Not that Joni did them >all...just that Joni ain't tellin. :-) >>>> - -- "Heart and humor and humility will lighten up your heavy load ... " - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 06:46:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine Finn Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #495 Sue writes: << So the question is how many men have been speculated as Coyote: I've heard Dylan >> Maybe I am wrong and don't know enough about Dylan, but the lyrics don't sound like they're describing him (to me). Have a great Joni celebration! Wish I could be there. --Bob Agreed. I don't see Dylan up early on the ranch brushing out a broodmare's tail. The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 09:53:17 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Joni Covers, Volume 45 - Tricks and Treats! Happy October, y'all! With a new month comes a new edition of Joni Covers, and since I seem to be going in numerical order I'll bring out #45. Another fine addition to the JMDL family, and here's what's on it: 1. The Practicers - Help Me 2. The Practicers - He Comes For Conversation: OK, so these are lo-fi recordings, the duo admits it BUT they are very spirited and I like the clean solo lines the guitarist plays, particularly in the latter song. 3. Mingus Big Band - Sweet Sucker Dance: Mingus' band updates his instrumental composition from their 2002 release. Very nice, these guys are all wonderful players. 4. The Osmond Brother - Both Sides Now: I know what you're thinkin', but this one's not as cheesy as you'd think. I guess it's Donny on the lead vocal, but I could be mistaken. 5. Diana Krall - A Case of You: What more can be said about this excellent cover from Elvis Costello's girlfriend? This is the version that appears on her 'Live In Paris' CD. 6. Kymaera - Help Me: Defines 'lite jazz', this one is an instrumental that is a bit too muzacky for me but is certainly smooth. 7. Bert Jansch & John Renbourn - Goodbye Pork Pie Hat: Bert & John were the guitarists for the English folk-rock group Pentangle. Their guitar styles are very complementary as witnessed here in their exploration of the Mingus classic melody. 8. The Sweeney - Both Sides Now: I know nothing of this UK band, only that this cover of BSN, taken from a vinyl single, really rocks! 9. Sarah Danforth - (Wish I Had)River: Oregon vocalist who recorded a CD this year to try and raise money to help her build a farmhouse. 10. The Scoldees - A Case Of You: This is a nice cover of ACOY, and is also from a 2003 release. Featured instrumentalist is Kate's pal Jeff Pevar, and the vocalist is Nancy Sirianni, who is married to none other than Jackie Martling, Howard Stern's writer. 11. Ray Winch - Big Yellow Taxi: Another fairly new release, Ray is a singer-songwriter who also covers popular favorites like BYT & Margaritaville. 12. Katja Ebstein - Beide Seiten: I'm guessing this is a German language version, but it might be Dutch. Sounds like German to me, and either way it's a good one! 13. Fabulous Connection with Kate Vereau: Night Ride Home: Yet another 2003 release (Joni's doin' OK this year!) from a CD that contains ALL songs about night. Interesting concept, and a pretty cover from this jazz singer. 14. Vocal Line - Blue: This one is REALLY sweet! An acapella group from Denmark, they do a complex and lovely version of one of Joni's most emotional melodies. 15. Crystal Waters - Twisted: OK, this one makes me LOL every time because this singer is SO bad...no sense of pitch, she's as sharp as often as she's flat. How this got released I'll never know! This Crystal is definitely cracked... 16. Al Dowe - Both Sides Now: Quasi-funky/cheesy trombone instrumental version, for all of you who ever wondered what a quasi-funky cheesy trombone instrumental of BSN might sound like. 17. Sharon Shannon - A Case of You: I must say I was disappointed by this one, because Sharon is a Celtic accordianist, and I was hoping she would record her Joni cover in that style. Alas, she puts down the squeezebox and sings instead with a guitar, and it's a bit on the weak side vocally. Oh well, I'm still holding out hope for the Celtic Accordion take on ACOY. 18. Holly Shelton & The Backroom Boys - Furry Sings The Blues 19. Holly SHelton & The Backroom Boys - Centerpiece: I don't typically include "Centerpiece" as a Joni cover but I added it here as a bonus track. Holly's great and her version of Furry is included in my favorites, probably because I have a soft spot in my heart for Hejira covers. That's it from Joni Covers central this month. If you made it this far, thanks for reading, and as always I'll be flinging a free copy out there in JMDL-land, so stay tuned... Bob NP: The Kinsey Report, "Full Moon On Main Street" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:01:02 -0400 From: lfye@cresapartners.com Subject: Re: "Shades of Scarlett..." continued... now "Electricity" Jim wrote: > Besides, this is the same woman who described electrician's tape this way, > > >the masking tape tangles< Funny you should mention that, Jim, because I was almost mentioned it when I responded to your post. Yes, the masking tape thing STILL bothers me, but I have to believe that the choice of "masking" over "electrician's" was simply because it flowed better lyrically. Of course, Joni could have chosen to sing, "The plastic tape tangles," and that would've worked just fine AND been accurate. Oh well. Lori ~ http://lrfye.lunarpages.com ~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:11:07 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Covers, Volume 45 - Tricks and Treats! In a message dated 10/1/2003 9:54:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > 15. Crystal Waters - Twisted: OK, this one makes me LOL every time > because this singer is SO bad...no sense of pitch, she's as sharp > as often as she's flat. How this got released I'll never know! This > Crystal is definitely cracked... > Covers 45 is a gem Bob..........thanks so much. I just love The Scoldees version of "Blue" and I was quite surprised with the Osmonds cover of BSN. As for Crystal Waters, any of you dancing queens will remember her big hit "She's Homeless". It was a great dance song around 13 years ago. I bought the CD, but Bob's right. Her version of "Twisted" is absolutely HORRIBLE!!!! She's so frickin flat! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:14:23 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Covers, Volume 45 - Tricks and Treats! In a message dated 01/10/2003 14:54:22 GMT Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > 6. Kymaera - Help Me: Defines 'lite jazz', this one is an instrumental > that is a bit too muzacky for me but is certainly smooth. > List connection: The drummer/percussionist with Kymaera is a close friend of mine! Michele Drees is one the best drummers in the country, also being an integral part of Badmarsh & Shri, not to mention a very fine singer and guitar player in Brazilian style and a songwriter to boot. I was fascinated to see that Crystal Waters has done a Joni cover; people may remember her for one biggish hit in the late 80s, Gypsy Woman (la da di la da da), which was certainly quite an arresting record - but her singing was as flat as a pancake on that too! Azeem in London NP: David Bowie - Reality ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 09:05:35 -0500 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: Re: "Shades of Scarlett..." continued... now "Electricity" Jim wrote: > Besides, this is the same woman who described electrician's tape this way, > > >the masking tape tangles< then Lori responded: <> and now me: but then you lose that it's *masking* tape - "and she holds out her flashlight and she shines it on me; she wants me to tell her what the trouble might be...." there's lots of stuff masked (i.e. - hidden) in that story. i still hold that it was all a well-thought out lyrical decision, not just that she didn't get it or didn't have the right word at her disposal. cindy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:16:57 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: "Shades of Scarlett..." continued... now "Electricity" Lori writes: << the masking tape thing STILL bothers me >> I swear I remember a time when I was very young -- so you know that's not in this century! -- when black, plastic tape was called *masking* tape. Does anyone know an elderly electrician to ask? I am not as old as Joni (or Catherine), but I am sure it was called masking tape. Another thought -- maybe it's a regional thing. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:27:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: synthesized like magic Since I'm not going to get the box set just yet, I decided it's time I listen to Dog Eat Dog. The CD has been sitting in it's shrink wrap since February or so, waiting for me to get the courage to delve in. I figure I'm an adult now, I can handle it right? I'm only about half way through, and to my surprise I'm getting such a kick out of it. It's cracking me up really because this coming from the artist who released such timeless and forward-thinking albums as C&S, Hissing, and Hejira. Now here's Dog Eat Dog which is so utterly and exquisitely 1985. So I get in the car to go to work where Hissing is playing (and has been pretty much nonstop since June) and the contrast is remarkable. Hissing is all about the offbeat - anticipating and coming in with a phrase just a hair before you think that she is going to. And so much of DED (though not all) is so on the beat...so white...so 1985. It's like the anti-Joni. Except it is Joni and so it's really throwing me for a loop and making me smile. those are just my first impressions anyway... Jenny - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- What if the Hokey Pokey *IS* what it's all about? - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:32:32 -0400 From: lfye@cresapartners.com Subject: Re: "Shades of Scarlett..." continued... now "Electricity" > but then you lose that it's *masking* tape - "and she holds out > her flashlight and she shines it on me; she wants me to tell her > what the trouble might be...." > > there's lots of stuff masked (i.e. - hidden) in that story. > > i still hold that it was all a well-thought out lyrical decision, > not just that she didn't get it or didn't have the right word at > her disposal. That's an excellent point, Cindy, and one I hadn't previously considered. I agree with you that Joni -- Lady of Duality that she is -- choose her words very carefully, so she surely did intend to use "masking." Lori, who knows that Cindy is correct in every circumstance ; ) ~ http://lrfye.lunarpages.com ~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:41:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: RE: "Shades of Scarlett..." continued... (long) Richard, you've got me rethinking HOSL. Lyrically I have not connected with most of it. Though I am amazed by her ability to create these mini-movies - I feel no connection with the characters - and I wonder if she felt any connection herself. To me it feels she is mostly an outside observer on songs like Shades of Scarlett. And a critical one at that. But I'm mulling over your take on it. Now musically I connect with HOSL more than I have with almost anything ever. I'm obsessed with it really...but that's a whole 'nother topic! Jenny Richard Flynn wrote: Do you think that one of the virtues of HOSL is the way that Joni presents what may well be cultural stereotypes only in order to complicate them--I'm thinking of "Shades of Scarlett, but also "Edith & the Kingpin," the title track, "Harry's House"--which to my mind is more effective with "Centerpiece" interpolated than without it. (Though I love those stripped down demos, thanks Bob.) Sonically, it's 3 dimensional (in its fully produced state), but it seemed a bit thin lyrically to me back when it came out. I don't feel this way now. Digression: Where is the group of southern women to sing "Hope Joni Mitchell will remember / Southern Belle don't need her around / Anyhow"? Seriously, the protagonist of "Shades" sometimes strikes me as stereotyped and thinly realized. Until I notice that HOSL is a kind of portrait gallery that builds toward its ulitmate quasi-transcendent moment (I say "quasi" because "Shadows and Light" refuses transcendence except as expressed materially in the work of art.) There's a lot of self-criticism and self-awareness in Hissing that complicates rather than validates what might be taken to be condescension toward the characters. That is, it ultimately isn't condescension. Joni recognizes something of herself in Scarlett--she too has sometimes bought into "all those vain promises on beauty jars." When I first bought this lp on the day of its release in 1975, I immediately liked its sound and seriousness better than Court and Spark (which I also loved). I took it over to the house of a girl (woman?--we were 20). After we listened to it we got in an argument about it--she violently criticizing & I defending it as "way better than 'Court and Spark.'" And that was our last date. Richard still formulating thoughts on Mingus np Blonde on Blonde--the sonically improved edition - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- What if the Hokey Pokey *IS* what it's all about? - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 9:43:20 -0500 From: Subject: RE: Test your Joni IQ!! Answers. Jim/Lamadoo wrote: "For this song about a fickle lover, Joni replace her original backing singer with a different one. :) How sly is that? The song is "Ladies Man". (Shouldn't it be "Ladies' Man" as it is in the lyric?) Roberta Joan Anderson-Mitchell-Klein said, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I invited Don Henley to come and sing with me on this one. After he left, when I was playing it back, I was amazed at how similar our voices sounded. It took a while to even noticed that a new singer had been introduced. So I went across the hall to where Lionel Richie was recording and I conscripted him. There was the contrast I wanted, so I replaced Don with Lionel. The old cutting room floor routine. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>: Me now: you sure? I'm pretty sure the song Lionel was brought in for was "You Dream Flat Tires." Of course, maybe he sang on both. (I'm writing this from memory, and can't check at the moment). Mary P, who listened to WTRF quite a lot when it came out--and read many reviews. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 11:05:53 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Test your Joni IQ!! Answers. > I'm pretty sure the song Lionel was brought in for was "You > Dream Flat Tires." Of course, maybe he sang on both. No, it was just "Tires", and like most of these 80's celeb cameos it was superfluous and promotional. She sang "Flat Tires" on her '83 tour without Ritchie and she sounds fine. Really no reason for him to appear, unlike her duet with Willie Nelson which I've always thought worked very well. His appearance on Joni's record MIGHT JUST coincide with the fact that at that time his "Dancin' On The Ceiling" was selling a jillion copies a week and Joni was wanting to jump back into the mainstream. Just pure speculation on my part of course. Bob NP: Clarence "Gatemouth" Brown, "Born In Louisiana" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 11:09:50 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Joni Covers, Volume 45 - Tricks and Treats! On 10/1/03 10:11 AM, "FMYFL@aol.com" wrote: > In a message dated 10/1/2003 9:54:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > >> 15. Crystal Waters - Twisted: OK, this one makes me LOL every time >> because this singer is SO bad...no sense of pitch, she's as sharp >> as often as she's flat. How this got released I'll never know! This >> Crystal is definitely cracked... >> > > Covers 45 is a gem Bob..........thanks so much. I just love The Scoldees > version of "Blue" and I was quite surprised with the Osmonds cover of BSN. > > As for Crystal Waters, any of you dancing queens will remember her big hit > "She's Homeless". It was a great dance song around 13 years ago. AND 100% Pure Love, a HUGE club hit. I can't believe Bob has spoken so badly about one of our divas. He is out of the club! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 11:18:08 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Covers, Volume 45 - Tricks and Treats! > He is out of the club! Sorry to hear that, Jerry and hope you get to still keep the microwave. :~) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 11:57:57 -0500 From: Steve Polifka Subject: RE: Test your Joni IQ!! Answers. Hello Mary, She brought Lionel in after she realized that Henley and her sounded too similar. Then she ran into Henley who chastized her about replacing him and not telling! LOL! Steve At 09:43 AM 10/1/2003 -0500, blckcrow@chorus.net wrote: >Jim/Lamadoo wrote: > >"For this song about a fickle lover, Joni replace her original backing singer >with a different one. :) How sly is that? The song is "Ladies Man". >(Shouldn't it be "Ladies' Man" as it is in the lyric?) > >Roberta Joan Anderson-Mitchell-Klein said, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >I invited Don Henley to come and sing with me on this one. After he left, >when I was playing it back, I was amazed at how similar our voices sounded. >It took a while to even noticed that a new singer had been introduced. So I >went across the hall to where Lionel Richie was recording and I conscripted >him. There was the contrast I wanted, so I replaced Don with Lionel. The >old cutting room floor routine. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>: > >Me now: you sure? I'm pretty sure the song Lionel was brought in for was "You Dream Flat Tires." Of course, maybe he sang on both. (I'm writing this from memory, and can't check at the moment). > >Mary P, >who listened to WTRF quite a lot when it came out--and read many reviews. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 11:59:21 -0500 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Re: Joni Covers, Volume 45 - Tricks and Treats! At 11:09 AM 10/1/2003 -0400, Jerry Notaro wrote: I can't believe Bob has spoken so badly >about one of our divas. He is out of the club! > >Jerry > Who cares? He was just an honorary member anyway... ;-) Steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:12:31 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: lakota >In the case of "Lakota", I think the Indian American thing is an issue that is so easy to preach about that a lot of artists jump on the opportunity (i.e. Enigma in "The Cross of Changes"). It kinda sickens me, actually. - - - Dylan< from my songwriter's point of view- preaching about something usually dilutes the potentcy of a song...cherokee louise is much more powerful (though it is about another issue really) because it is written from a first hand viewpoint (joni about her childhood friend) as opposed to lakota that is joni attempting to speak from the point of view of a member of that nation of which she may or may not have any personal experience... there are some great story telling songwriters who can really nail someone else's story by stepping into their skin but joni's strength has always been writing in her own blood... as to artists jumping on the issue of native american history, i don't have a problem with that at all...it is a big issue & an important one but stuff like that is not easy to write about with skill & artistry... your namesake dylan was one who could tackle those big issues with success, i.e. 'blowin in the wind' & 'masters of war'... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:27:46 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Joni Covers, Volume 45 - Tricks and Treats! >10. The Scoldees - A Case Of You: This is a nice cover of ACOY, and is also from a 2003 release. Featured instrumentalist is Kate's pal Jeff Pevar< & he played that very song at our tribute last year (but not with the scoldees) >15. Crystal Waters - Twisted: OK, this one makes me LOL every time because this singer is SO bad...no sense of pitch, she's as sharp as often as she's flat. How this got released I'll never know! This Crystal is definitely cracked...< if memory serves me she wa an actress that was on tv in the 90's? unless its another crystal somebodyerother ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:38:04 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: synthesized like magic > Hissing is all about the offbeat - anticipating and coming in with a phrase just a hair before you think that she is going to. And so much of DED (though not all) is so on the beat...so white...so 1985. < lol jenny, the rise of the 'perfect' drum machine beat beast... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 18:21:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: "Shades of Scarlett..." continued... now "Electricity" --- Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > Lori writes: > > << the masking tape thing STILL bothers me >> > > I swear I remember a time when I was very young -- > so you know that's not in > this century! -- when black, plastic tape was called > *masking* tape. Does > anyone know an elderly electrician to ask? I am not > as old as Joni (or Catherine), ... nor anywhere near as wise... > but I am sure it was called masking tape. Another > thought -- maybe it's a > regional thing. > You young whelp. What do you know? Maybe she was out of electric tape and used what she had at hand. Anyone who would use a copper proudheaded Queen Lizzie (conducting her little charges) in place of a fuse will make do with whatever's around, n'est-ce pas? You know we've had this conversation before. If your brain cells were intact, you would remember this. Perhaps some of us age better than others? ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 19:33:44 EDT From: JSerkes@aol.com Subject: Nyrogrl needs your help It looks as though, I am embarking on a new project. Hopefully, graciously, I am beginning to tell the story of Laura Nyro on film. So, what I need, is anyone here who may have met her, known her, worked with her, filmed her, played with her. I so appreciate your help here JoniPeople. I adore Mitchell as you know, met Wally B early on, and sit back and watch your posts daily. Please call me or write me online at Nyrogrl@aol.com; Jserkes@aol.com Jody L. Serkes CrossEyed Productions 314.378.6052 "seeing things differently" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 17:40:25 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: "Shades of Scarlett..." At 08:46 PM 9/30/2003 -0700, Mark in Seattle wrote: >I had never really formulated my thoughts on this song before. I always >loved the images and turns of phrase so much but wondered if this wasn't a >rather superficial sketch. Now that I've written all of this, I don't >think it is. Once again, Joni has given us just enough in her lyrics to >draw any number of conclusions. Don't ya just love it? Hi Mark, I know you have previously written very thoughtful and insightful posts about HOSL and some of its individual tracks including what quite probably was *the* definitive essay about the album; this latest about "Scarlett" was no exception. The song to me is another (fitting) chapter keeping in HOSL's general theme of society and suburbia. The musical structure flows with a sense of wonderment and I almost expect to hear a harp layer to add to the other-worldly quality as it builds. It seems Joni really jumped into themes of duality with this album and "Scarlett" illustrates many shades of contrast. She is a southern woman, searching for an identity, wondering if her own life will become a movie-like existence with modern-day gentlemen (acting like ghosts of Gable and Flynn) pursuing her. She has dark dreams, but closes her eyes at X-rated scenes; she has blood-red fingernails but impossibly gentle hands...the contrasts are everything. Former JMDL participant Bev Wolfe once wrote about the "polarity" of growing up in the south and the pressure that is put upon certain young women to become steel magnolias, and the revolt that many of them go through as they choose their own paths in life, rather than one laid out by movies and generations of customs. I see the character "Scarlett" struggling with this personal decision as well. As Mark states, the images are fantastic and the interpretations many. Perhaps Joni, growing up on the Canadian prairies, understood more than most the great differences between the north and the south, and illustrated them with incredible skill when she wrote this song. Yes, Mark, I do love it! Scott ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 21:12:38 -0500 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: Pirates of Penance and No Apologies Bob wrote: <<"Pirate of Penance" from her debut is pretty much of a dud, and "No Apologies" from TTT is preachier than Lakota and Ethiopia, and offers even less melodic interest.>> A dud?! Bob, my mission now in life is to convert you into liking POP. Go back and listen to it. This song is so dreamy, beautiful and hypnotic. Those key changes.....and those harmonies, sometimes together and sometimes drifting into a sort of polyphony. This is one of those songs that I'm constantly hitting the repeat button for on my CD player. "No Apologies" is a great song, too. When Joni sings: "Tire skids and..," sounds just like a car skidding, squealing tires and all, coming in real fast and loud, and then you hear it stop abruptly, and then Joni sings "Teeth Marks.." real short and staccato-like, making a sort of "chomp-chomp" biting noise that fits the lyrics beautifully. Brilliant! I guess if I had to pick a dud, I'd go with "Dancing Clown," "Good Friends," or "Snakes and Ladders." But, similar to what you once said before, a dud on a Joni-scale is still a great song when compared to another artist's collection. Mia _________________________________________________________________ Share your photos without swamping your Inbox. Get Hotmail Extra Storage today! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:41:20 EDT From: HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com Subject: nothing really...maybe I remember (when i can) purchasing albums one at a time. usually the same artist till i owned them all, but occasionally i'd HAVE to but the latest release of someone out of the blue. i don't remember buying any of them in any other particular order, just one at a time, till i could afford or find another. then i'd take my new prize, place it in it's apropriate mode of translation and play it over and over and over and over and over for never less than a month. most of my jewels have been redone in the same or a similar manner at least once, usually more, since that time ( dog eat dog was an exception the first time cause it scared the living hell out of me the first time i heard it...a year or so later i took a deep breath and tried again and was much more successful). i guess i'm the type who looks not at the letter of the law, but at the soul that lies within it. on that gum wrapper with the two words on it, i don't care what the two words are or even what the two words are talking about, i want to know what the two words really say. peace noel np - natalie merchant "ophelia" for about the 150th time today ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:57:27 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: BSN, my two cents worth << From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #494 - BSN again I listened to BSN (twice) last weekend, the first listening in at least nine months. I found that my earlier fondness and reverence for that album -- was confirmed. I know some of you hate it, consider it a low point. For me it stands up and lasts. >> I've stayed out of this whole love it/hate it BSN debate 'cause it's strictly a matter of personal preference but I, like you, think BSN is a fine collection. I would almost have rather had her do ALL covers of other people's love/relationship songs than to include two of her own, if only to maintain the concept. But I still like it. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 20:06:51 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: re: Pirates of Penance and No Apologies -- now Joni duds > "Pirate of Penance" from her debut is pretty much of a dud, and "No > Apologies" from TTT is preachier than Lakota and Ethiopia, and offers > even less melodic interest. I'm with Mia. I love POP and No Apologies! If I were to pick a dud off the top of my head, it would have to be "Last Chance Lost." It kind of grates on my nerves. What's YOUR choice of Joni dud(s)? Lori ~ http://lrfye.lunarpages.com ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:16:08 -0400 From: "Christopher Treacy" Subject: Re: Pirates of Penance and No Apologies -- now Joni duds Chris' Joni Duds.... 1.Lead Balloon 2.Dancin' Clown 3.Stay In Touch 4.Blue Boy (it just irritates the shit out of me, always has...) 5.Tax Free I'll stop at 5.... But will add a few runners up... 6.Tea Leaf Prophecy 7.Cool Water - -Chris NP: Heart - "Soul of the Sea" Time, Time, Time, never ask what's become of us..... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lori Fye" To: "mia ortlieb" ; ; Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 11:06 PM Subject: re: Pirates of Penance and No Apologies -- now Joni duds > > "Pirate of Penance" from her debut is pretty much of a dud, and "No > > Apologies" from TTT is preachier than Lakota and Ethiopia, and offers > > even less melodic interest. > > I'm with Mia. I love POP and No Apologies! > > If I were to pick a dud off the top of my head, it would have to > be "Last Chance Lost." It kind of grates on my nerves. > > What's YOUR choice of Joni dud(s)? > > > Lori > > ~ > http://lrfye.lunarpages.com > ~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 20:46:30 -0700 From: cul heath Subject: re Donald O'connor Hi Patrick, Maybe you know of this site already but I found it an excellent read the day that I discovered that Donald O'connor had died: http://www.muppetlabs.com/~davidj/tnt/oconnor/donald.htm I used it in a small obit for him on my own site...he was definitely one of my favs of all time. Take care, cul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:53:39 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: RE: "Shades of Scarlett..." continued... now "Electricity" That could be. Mike Timmins said that one can hear "the air conditioning equipment" on THE TRINITY SESSION. It wasn't until decades later I found out the recording was made in Toronto in NOVEMBER. He said that a funace is a kind of air conditing. What say, ye, McKay? Lama > From: Murphycopy@aol.com [mailto:Murphycopy@aol.com] > I swear I remember a time when I was very young -- so you know > that's not in > this century! -- when black, plastic tape was called *masking* tape. Does > anyone know an elderly electrician to ask? I am not as old as > Joni (or Catherine), > but I am sure it was called masking tape. Another thought -- maybe it's a > regional thing. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 00:07:06 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Pirates of Penance and No Apologies -- now Joni "duds" Catherine's friend Lori writes: << What's YOUR choice of Joni dud(s)? >> LORI!!! There are no Joni "duds," although there are a few "less brilliant" songs. In that category I would put "The Windfall," the song about the Guatemalan maid Joni kicked the ever-lovin' crap out of. (An exageration, I know, but I love the sound of it!) In an interview from sometime in the last decade or so, Joni says she now has "rich people's problems." I think this song is a case of her creating music about them. And that talking part at the beginning of the song - -- where Joni tries to sound amused -- just sounds fake and awful to me. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 00:07:48 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: preachy ? Dylan wrote > In the case of "Lakota", I think the Indian American thing is an issue that > > is so easy to preach about that a lot of artists jump on the opportunity > (i.e. Enigma in "The Cross of Changes"). It kinda sickens me, actually. Perhaps, but I do not find Joni's treatment of the issues painted in this song to be preachy at all. Rather, I see her doing her typically solid job of painting what she sees, without a lot of personal judgment. Yes, there are depictions of the injustices that gave rise to the suppression. Yes, the (stereotypical, but perhaps true nevertheless) views of Indians as respectful renters of the land rather than its owners, and weepers of its rape by what they view as the unwise practices of their oppressors is painted - but Joni is not preaching the evils of such treatment, per se - those views are painted through the eyes of the subject. Indeed, the rest of the picture is unflattering - "pity me" particularly so. But also "we won't sell - we'll never sell....In the barrooms - poor drunk bastard falls.....the black coats and the booze broke Lakota....I am Lakota Brave....Broken.....Grave....Weak....Faithful.....Meek....Pity me...Pity me. I think Joni could just as easily be accused of chastizing the self pitying Lakota as of preaching about their immoral treatment - but I believe she is doing neither, rather than both. She is painting a picture, of the sadness and frustration and anger and helplessnes and self-loathing of her subject. That she may share some of those feelings herself is secondary to her purpose (and, IMO, she does a fine job of suppressing the urge to preach those feelings - she lets the picture painted by her words and music transmit those feelings) I feel the same way about Ethiopia. I suspect that Joni and I are not in complete (or even general) agreement on many socio-political issues. But I admire the art in her socio-political work, and respect her efforts (generally successful, but not always - as in Tax Free - which I do find preachy, without regard to the merits) to subordinate her views to the honesty of her art. Just my view, of course. Best Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 01:42:16 EDT From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: RE: Test your Joni IQ! So the question is how many men have been >speculated as Coyote: I've heard Dylan, Robbie >Robertson, now Sam Shepherd. I guess you could >take the list of all the men who were in the >Rolling Thunder Revue and shake them up in your >hat and pick one. Not that Joni did them >all...just that Joni ain't tellin. :-) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - --------------------------------------------- I've often thought if Joni was breaking up with John Gurin during the writing of the "Hejira" album, the verse in "Coyote" might be referring to him. Privately probing the public rooms And peeking through keyholes in numbered doors Where the players lick their wounds And take their temporary lovers And their pills and powders to get them through this passion play No regrets, Coyote Well, this to me sounds to be referring to the someone participating in gay activities of those times, looking for sex in public bathrooms (you know, kind of like George Michael), bookstores and bath houses for quick anonymous sex. Do you think she was saying he may have been delving into those activities while he was with her? Gays did a lot of pills and powders during the disco 70's. This could be why leaving wasn't her fault, she just couldn't deal with it. She did out Geffen in "Free Man in Paris." Another thought is Neil Young bought a Ranch up in Northern, CA after leaving CSN , raised horses and kind of hid out from everyone and she talked of visiting him up there. I think he still lives there? How my mind jumps around:~) Peace Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 02:01:33 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: October 2 1991: Joni attended Sting's birthday party held at A&M Studios in Los Angeles. - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 02:01:33 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: October 2 On October 2 the following articles were published: 1998: "Bare Necessities" - Entertainment Weekly (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=103 1998: "Conversation with Joni Mitchell" - ABC Good Morning America (Interview - Audio Transcription) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=614 1998: "Riled Woman" - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=244 1998: "Taming the Tiger" - Washington Blade (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=414 2000: "Singer Jann Arden tops music awards" - Toronto Globe and Mail (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=656 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:03:14 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Test your Joni IQ! Very interesting take Mingus! > Well, this to me sounds to be referring to the someone participating in gay > activities of those times, looking for sex in public bathrooms (you know, > kind of like George Michael), bookstores and bath houses for quick anonymous sex. > Do you think she was saying he may have been delving into those activities > while he was with her? Gays did a lot of pills and powders during the disco > 70's. I agree it could be about Guerin. But as someone who lived through (survived) the 70s in SoCal, I saw most everyone around taking the powders, pills and having quick anonymous sex. (The mid-late '70s were not my personal favorite of time periods - way too much wreakage left in its wake IMO). There was lots of excess everywhere. I went to stay on the east coast for awhile during that time just to breathe some pure air again, so to speak. At the time of HOSL I thought Joni was very prescient in describing the dulled ennui of that time, which even permeated suburbia through the backround soundtrack of the hissing of summer lawns. > Another thought is Neil Young bought a Ranch up in Northern, CA after > leaving CSN , raised horses and kind of hid out from everyone and she talked of > visiting him up there. I think he still lives there? He still does and I agree he probably went there to get away and hide out! Kakki ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #308 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)