From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #305 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, September 30 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 305 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Multi-purpose, rambling post...including "Shades of Scarlett..." [Ash] Hey y'all - newbie here ["Dylan Rush" ] box ["walterphil" ] Re: Hey y'all - newbie here [Emiliano ] Re: Multi-purpose, rambling post...including "Shades of Scarlett..." [SCJ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #304 [Wiloboy@aol.com] Joni raps! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: DJRD [Emiliano ] Re: Hey y'all - newbie here ["Lori Fye" ] Re: "The Lost Years" by Joni Mitchell ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Hey y'all - newbie here ["StephenToogood" ] Geffen review in Rolling Stone [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] A good laugh [PassScribe@aol.com] "Shades of Scarlett..." continued... [zenpop@mindspring.com] Re: "Shades of Scarlett..." continued... [Catherine McKay ] Re: Hey y'all - newbie here [KJHSF@aol.com] Today's Library Links: September 30 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:12:00 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Multi-purpose, rambling post...including "Shades of Scarlett..." Frederick wrote: <> You have *got* to be kidding!! This seems just criminal to me!! (And they wonder why people do things like download music from the internet.) Sheesh!! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:34:36 +1000 From: "Dylan Rush" Subject: Hey y'all - newbie here Hi everybody, Just like to introduce myself to you lot - My name is Dylan, I am 13, live in Australia and have the entire Joni back catalogue on vinyl. I adore her music, play guitar and very rarely listen to anything but Joni. I look forward to meeting you all. _________________________________________________________________ E-mail just got a whole lot better. New ninemsn Premium. Click here http://ninemsn.com.au/premium/landing.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:19:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "walterphil" Subject: box i always thought joni's best work was up to and including don juan. she hit a horrible slide thru the next 3 lousy albums and then started the great comeback with nightride thru taming. that said, i still want the box because anything that salvages anything from the nadir of her career is worth it for me. (cant wait to hear the dylan cover) and the dog demo for that matter.... a good unrelesed joni performance is worth any price. $40 is a pittance. i also think its petty to return the box for the loosening of the binding returning it is not gonna reflect well on the set or joni for that matter. perhaps a letter of complaint to the company---- but returning it will have a negative effect on sales and i think on joni and her stand in the marketplace. after all its the music that counts. someone just made a mistake and used the wrong glue dont punish joni for it. and i think returning a cd for a picture is a very petty, and again doesn't do anything for joni just pick up a vinyl copy for a few bucks. the picture is twice as big and much more beautiful. just my 3 cents walt The most personalized portal on the Web! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 15:25:23 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: Hey y'all - newbie here Hi, Dylan! Welcome to the list! It's great to hear from you: it's curious that, having *only* 13 (by now), you've got the Joni's albums in vinyl!. Tell us, please, how do you started knowing her music, what do you think about the Geffen years, Travelogue... anything you want. Have a Wonderful time! Emiliano - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Dylan Rush" Para: Enviado: lunes, 29 de septiembre de 2003 13:34 Asunto: Hey y'all - newbie here > Hi everybody, > > Just like to introduce myself to you lot - My name is Dylan, I am 13, live > in Australia and have the entire Joni back catalogue on vinyl. I adore her > music, play guitar and very rarely listen to anything but Joni. I look > forward to meeting you all. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:32:41 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Multi-purpose, rambling post...including "Shades of Scarlett..." > How odd, I wonder whose faux-pas that > was, the paper's or Costello's? > I've heard some audio from Elvis where he mentions this song; he stated the lyrics correctly in the audio, so I'm assuming the faux-pas is in the transcription. He's a major fan of this lyric and has mentioned it several times over the years. Probably inspired his line "she's filing her nails while they're dragging the lake". Given that the title song is based on Jose Feliciano, I'm tempted to believe that SOSC is also a portrait of somebody specific, obviously someone tied to the film industry with all the cinematic references. > "Friends tell her not so proud, > Neighbors trying to sleep and yelling 'not so loud'" This could be a Hollywood late-night party, but putting it in context I tend to think it's a lover's quarrel, after all it's followed by: "Lovers in anger Block of Ice Harder and harder just to be nice" The 'block of ice' being that end-of-argument-both-parties-have-arms crossed-with-no-resolution sorta thing. > "Dressed in stolen clothes she stands..." I take this to mean she's wearing a costume or clothing from one of the films she was in...like she's trying to re-capture the glory of that time, perhaps "A woman must have everything" was a famous line from that same film, so she dresses in the costume, walks through the scenes, and repeats the script in an attempt to remind herself of her former fame. It's a great song...cryptic & coded like so much of HOSL. Thanks for bringing it up, Frederick. SOSC hasn't had a lot of discussion here that I can recall. Bob NP: Billy Preston, "Outaspace" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:32:29 -0400 From: Wiloboy@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #304 Hi guys, I've been way behind on reading the list lately. I'm coming out of lurkdom to let you know I just found a used copy of the Geffen Box set for $29.99 at djangosmusic.com . If they are out they will notify you when another one comes in. Wil Comstock ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 15:06:13 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Joni raps! Looks like Joni's been sampled again: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00006JOFJ/qid%3D1064862133/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/102-1746692-6165750 Anyone know anything about this one? Track 8 is called "The Girl In The Picture" and is credited to Jon Notty F & Joni Mitchell... Bob NP: Wilco, "Any Major Dude Will Tell You" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:23:50 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: DJRD Hi, Bill! Your answer seems like out of the blue to me! Sure it seems funny to underline these words, as they're obviously the same as two title songs from Sweet Baby James & Mud Slide Slim (and the blue horizon) but I'm not sure about your assertion. It seems too precise to be a coincidence, yes. What do you (folks) think about it? Have a Wonderful time! Emiliano NP: People Have the Power, Patti Smith unplugged in Montagnola 31 July 2003 - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Bill Branyon" Para: Enviado: lunes, 29 de septiembre de 2003 20:08 > DJRD I believe is about James Taylor. I.e. - "And a > 'country road' came off the wall, and swooped down on > the crowd at the bar." and "Restless sweeps like 'fire > and rain' over virgin wilderness. Prowls like hookers > and theives through bolt-locked tenements. > N'ce pas? (n'est-ce pas?) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 14:59:44 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Hey y'all - newbie here Welcome, Dylan! Nice to have you here! Tell us about how you discovered Joni's music, your favorite Joni song and/or album, and all that jazz (and rock and folk and et cetera). Lori near Washington DC ~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 15:18:27 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: "The Lost Years" by Joni Mitchell Joni wrote: > So, here, sprung from the dungeons of Geffen Records after doing > twelve years for failing to be wildly popular, are these four > parolees. Well, crap. I was seriously going to blow off buying the new boxed set because I really can't seeing spending money on albums I already have on CD, vinyl, and cassette -- even though I am a DED-head! Now I have to rethink the whole thing, because I believe in supporting Joni. How many previously unreleased songs are included? Three? Lori ~ http://lrfye.lunarpages.com ~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 17:28:37 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: Hey y'all - newbie here Donna from Texas writes: Welcome Dylan! Can't wait to hear more about how you found Joni! We have another lister, Rachel, turned l4 during the Jonifest this year which she attended with her parents and which is held in the northeastern part of New York state. Welcome aboard! Donna Binkley >>> "Lori Fye" 09/29/03 4:59 PM >>> Welcome, Dylan! Nice to have you here! Tell us about how you discovered Joni's music, your favorite Joni song and/or album, and all that jazz (and rock and folk and et cetera). Lori near Washington DC ~ This message has been scanned by the E250. This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:28:57 +0100 From: "StephenToogood" Subject: Re: Hey y'all - newbie here Hi Dylan welcome to the list! I thought I was representing the young Joni fans but you make me feel old! Wow only 13 and already listening to Joni that's great. ************** Steve T amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk "Red is autumn green is summer Greens are turning and the sand" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dylan Rush" To: Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 12:34 PM Subject: Hey y'all - newbie here > Hi everybody, > > Just like to introduce myself to you lot - My name is Dylan, I am 13, live > in Australia and have the entire Joni back catalogue on vinyl. I adore her > music, play guitar and very rarely listen to anything but Joni. I look > forward to meeting you all. > > _________________________________________________________________ > E-mail just got a whole lot better. New ninemsn Premium. Click here > http://ninemsn.com.au/premium/landing.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 19:37:16 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Geffen review in Rolling Stone RS gives "The Complete Geffen Recordings" 3 stars (good) and offers this review by Barry Walters: "The eighties weren't kind to Joni Mitchell, and the quintessential introspective singer-songwriter of the Sixties and Seventies disliked them right back. In the liner notes to this box set of her four albums released between 1982 and 1991, Mitchell writes, "To be in sync with the times, in my opinion, was to be degenerating both morally and artistically." Mitchell's Achilles heel, a growing self-righteousness, begins to afflict her art. As she sings in "Man To Man" from 1982's 'Wild Things Run Fast', "I sure can be phony when I get scared." During this unkind epoch, Mitchell is sometimes justifiably terrified. But mostly she's simply uneven. 'Wild' is particularly inconsistent:"Chinese Cafe," a vivid adolescent snapshot that builds on the beauty of her Seventies jazziness, abruptly segues into the tacky faux-metal guitars and stiff, Police-inspired rhythms of "Be Cool." 'Dog Eat Dog' employs synth-pop's Thomas Dolby to help with the sonic toys of 1985, and many fans consider it misguided-although, in hindsight, its knowing fakeness puts her in the company of techno commentator Laurie Anderson. Her 1988 album 'Chalk Mark In A Rain Storm' retreats from Dog's angularity, replacing risk with celebrity: Peter Gabriel, Tom Petty, Willie Nelson, even Billy Idol. 'Night Ride Home', from 1991, is smoother still; here the previous era's excesses are stripped away to focus on Mitchell's strengths: sophisticated guitar tunings and harmonics. On gentle remembrances such as "Come In From The Cold," Mitchell comes home." Bob NP: Warren Zevon, "Numb As A Statue" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:56:28 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: A good laugh I might even sacrifice a few bags of > groceries for it because I can always send the cats > out hunting for birds and squirrels for dinner. And > God help them if they come back empty-handed (or > empty-pawed, as the case may be) because I hear cat > tastes just like chicken. Catherine, you wrote this? I laughed out loud when I read it as part of Kakki''s reply. Great stuff!! I needed a good laugh today... thanks! Kenny B N.P.: "Abandon City", Utopia, Redux '92, Live in Japan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 19:16:39 -0700 From: zenpop@mindspring.com Subject: "Shades of Scarlett..." continued... Bob replied re: SOSC and HOSL... > Given that the title song is based on Jose Feliciano, I'm tempted to > believe that SOSC is also a portrait of somebody specific, obviously > someone tied to the film industry with all the cinematic references. That's interesting and makes me chuckle, because, during the 70s, when I lived in LA, I was friends with Patsy Webb, the songwriter Jimmy Webb's wife (at the time). Consensus in that household was that the song was written about her/them (!). Though, Feliciano makes more sense, I suppose -- "latin drum" and all. What was certain, and gossiped about from time to time was the infamous playback party, which the Webbs were present for -- where Dylan caught some zzzzs through the master tape of CAS. Now THAT'S a scene from a movie. Last I spoke with Patsy she was writing a book -- no doubt that event will be recounted (again). Anyway, thanks for your thoughts on the song Bob -- you've given me a new way to consider it; this I found particularly interesting: >> "Dressed in stolen clothes she stands..." > > I take this to mean she's wearing a costume or clothing from one of the > films she was in...like she's trying to re-capture the glory of that > time, perhaps "A woman must have everything" was a famous line from > that > same film, so she dresses in the costume, walks through the scenes, and > repeats the script in an attempt to remind herself of her former fame. That's probably THE most cryptic line in the whole song ("..stolen clothes...", to me. Though my sense still rings strong that there's a larger, more impersonal commentary going down about the whole Southern female "phenomena" and mindset -- which, despite cliches, Mitchell circled so tightly in the song. > > NP: Billy Preston, "Outaspace" I love this, now playing thing -- and must, here on out copy ;-) NP: On The Alamo -- (from Benny Goodman Sextet featuring Charlie Christian.) Cheers, Frederick ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:35:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: "Shades of Scarlett..." continued... --- zenpop@mindspring.com wrote: > >> "Dressed in stolen clothes she stands..." > > > > I take this to mean she's wearing a costume or > clothing from one of the > > films she was in...like she's trying to re-capture > the glory of that > > time, perhaps "A woman must have everything" was a > famous line from > > that > > same film, so she dresses in the costume, walks > through the scenes, and > > repeats the script in an attempt to remind herself > of her former fame. > > That's probably THE most cryptic line in the whole > song ("..stolen > clothes...", to me. > > Though my sense still rings strong that there's a > larger, more > impersonal commentary going down about the whole > Southern female > "phenomena" and mindset -- which, despite cliches, > Mitchell circled so > tightly in the song. I think of Scarlet as more like a Blanche Dubois type, so I'm with you on the southern archetype/cliche thing. She has this image of herself as being a really grand lady, but maybe to the neighbours she's just a batty old (or middle-aged) woman who dresses garishly and makes too much noise. Strangely enough, the character even reminds me a bit of my ex-mother-in-law (now deceased) who was not from the south (well, maybe - from the south of Italy) but who had these visions of the way women were supposed to be and look and so on. This lady could deceive herself about a lot of things and I'm sure was influenced by romantic movies and books about how life was "supposed" to be. Even though her husband ran around and cheated on her, she somehow believed theirs was a great love story and would do things to make her husband jealous - like, she'd order flowers to be sent to herself so he'd think they were coming from some other man. And she was always dressed very well (probably didn't own a tracksuit, LOL) and would never go out without putting on full makeup and making sure her hair was perfect. Also wouldn't be caught dead in flat shoes - always had to be high heels, even if it killed her. On the whole, much more concerned about the way things appeared to other people, than the way they truly were. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:05:27 +1000 From: "Dylan Rush" Subject: Re: Hey y'all - newbie here >Hi, Dylan! >Welcome to the list! > >It's great to hear from you: it's curious that, having *only* 13 (by now), >you've got the Joni's albums in vinyl!. Tell us, please, how do you started >knowing her music, what do you think about the Geffen years, Travelogue... >anything you want. > >Have a Wonderful time! >Emiliano Okay, here goes... My first memory of Joni was studying Big Yellow Taxi in primary school, when I was in year 4. I loved the song but got the vague impression at the time that here was an atypical song from a beautiful and very different musician with a vast back catalogue. I went to a CD store and checked out the Mitchell, Joni section - now I think about it, it must have looked strange, a 7-year-old going through Joni albums - and saw "Misses". I thought "what sort of funny lady would have a Greatest Misses album?". I never got round to listening to any of her stuff until hearing the Maire Brennan (Enya's sister) new age cover of Big Yellow Taxi last year. I went to my local library and checked out the only album of Joni's they had on shelf at the time - a battered cassette of "Mingus". Boy did that change everything! The cassette had no explanatory liners, so I had no idea what I was listening to or what it was about - I got hooked on "God Must Be A Boogie Man", to date my favourite Joni song, because of the strange feel of it all - the emptiness, the choir, the guitar, Jaco's bass. I started collecting vinyl around that time - it's cheaper, more fun and sounds better than CD's - and got Hejira on LP. WOW! Again I got hooked on it - I must've played "Coyote" a million times. Next came Shadows and Light, then The Hissing Of Summer Lawns - each album I adored, and I kept going until I had the whole set. The only albums I need now to complete the Joni catalogue are Taming the Tiger, Hits, Misses and Turbulent Indigo. (I have Shadows and Light on VHS, too... what did we all think of that video? It was good, but it certaintly wasn't what I expected.) I love the Geffen recordings, and don't know why they're bagged out so much. Wild Things Run Fast is good fun and her usual standard of beautiful songwriting. Dog Eat Dog is a brilliant album, and shows her willingness to experiment with the technology of the era. Her songwriting has always been five-star, no matter what technology she uses. Ditto Chalk Mark In A Rainstorm. I think it's just too different from the public perception of Joni Mitchell - folky blonde chick who sung "Big Yellow Taxi" and giggled at the end - for the old school fans to dig. In fairness, though, the only bad songs she ever made were recorded during the Geffen period - the corny "Dancin' Clown" and the preachy, excruciating "Lakota" and "Ethiopia". I think a particularly underrated, overlooked Joni song is "The Reoccuring Dream" from CMIARS - It's confronting and somewhat disturbing how the music builds and builds, the bass and keyboard relentlessly pounding through the same cycle, while the little ad clips bounce around and Joni declares "Dreamer! Dream on!". Night Ride Home is beautiful, nothing like the rest of the Geffen stuff, kinda minimalist. Does anyone know what Cherokee Louise and The Windfall are about? The orchestral albums are beautiful. The "Both Sides Now" album is the saddest thing I've ever heard, especially the renditions of "A Case of You" and "At Last". "Travelogue" is really well done, the arrangements are masterful and it's good to hear Joni's classics in her new smoky voice, which I actually like better than her folky soprano. Also, I'm getting into Prince these days - any Prince fans in the house? I'm going to his Sydney concert in three weeks time... Has anyone heard his cover of "A Case of U"? _________________________________________________________________ Get less junk mail with ninemsn Premium. Click here http://ninemsn.com.au/premium/landing.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:40:47 EDT From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Hey y'all - newbie here In a message dated 9/29/2003 11:06:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, crazydiamond67@hotmail.com writes: Also, I'm getting into Prince these days - any Prince fans in the house? I'm going to his Sydney concert in three weeks time... Has anyone heard his cover of "A Case of U"? Well, Dylan, entering the Joni journey through Mingus is definitely the road less traveled! Congratulations for having such a great openness to appreciate something so difficult! As for Prince, I started listening to him after hearing he was a huge Joni fan. I was curious to see if his appreciation for her was reflected in his music. And of course there are specific references to her directly; "Working part time in a five and dime, my boss was Mr. McGee" is a tribute, I believe, to McGee's general store from Paprika Plains. But where I really hear Joni's influence in the sound of his music is in the piano intro and in the chordal singing in the chorus of Condition of the Heart, from Around the World In a Day. I loved Prince's psychedelic era, from that album, Under the Cherry Moon, Sign of the Times, Lovesexy, and Diamonds and Pearls. Haven't really liked much before or after. He has put out a lot of amazing stuff, and he's put out a lot of really mediocre stuff, in my opinion. But when he's great, he's almost untouchable. Welcome to the list! Ken H. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 02:02:54 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: September 30 On September 30 the following articles were published: 1998: "Dylan, Joni to perform together" - Toronto Globe and Mail (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=376 1998: "Riled Woman" - Washington Post (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=420 1998: "Sharps and Flats" - Salon.com (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=573 1998: "Taming the Tiger" - George Graham Website (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=110 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #305 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)