From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #300 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, September 26 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 300 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Library Links: September 25 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] the french diphthong ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #484 [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Same Situation on WOHAM ["Ross, Les" ] Re: Boxed in [Bobsart48@aol.com] Fw: the french diphthong (for AOL members) [Emiliano ] Re: State assasination of Arafat ["Sherelle Smith" ] The Geffen Set [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: The Geffen Set [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: The Geffen Set ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: The Geffen Set [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #298 [twoshoes@sasktel.net] Re: State assasination of Arafat ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Judgement of the Moon and Stars [Scott Price ] Joni-Off The Record sjc ["joe farrell" ] RE: The Geffen Set ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Hosl ["StephenToogood" ] Re: DED ["StephenToogood" ] Re: box set bummer ["StephenToogood" ] Fw: The Geffen Set (for AOL members) [Emiliano ] Re: Hosl [Emiliano ] Making $$$ off the BF [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: The Geffen Set ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: box set bummer [Catherine McKay ] Re: box set bummer ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: box set bummer ["kakki" ] Re: box set bummer ["kakki" ] Re: Making $$$ off the BF [David Sadowski ] COMPLETE GEFFEN RECORDINGS, now in stores [] Re: Speechless [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: box set bummer [Catherine McKay ] Re: box set bummer [] (No Subject) ["Shane" ] Today's Library Links: September 26 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 03:03:44 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: September 25 On September 25 the following article was published: 1998: "Taming the Tiger" - London Times (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=170 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 04:21:15 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: the french diphthong i still don't get the french diphthong thing. why did joni call "long long" a french diphthong? was she trying to imitate a french sound? from what i understand, the track on the geffen box track is two gray rooms, but instead of lyrics joni sings the words "long long". is that right? finally, what is the complete list of previously unreleased songs on the G box? wally ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 03:32:02 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #484 > 2) Judy Collins' beautiful early-'90s version is of > what? "Two Grey Rooms" or "Baby Blue"? Either way, it would be an addition > to the four JC covers of JM songs (some in multiple versions) listed on the > JMDL "Undercover" section and discussed on this list-service before: "Both > Sides[,] Now," "Chelsea Morning," "Michael from Mountains" and "For Free." > > Inquiring minds want to know! Judy recorded "It's All Over Now Baby Blue" on her magnificent and still largely undiscovered "Judy Sings Dylan: Just Like a Woman" album from 1993, a one-album stand on Geffen. It is a must-have, I know virtually all of you would like it very much. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:05:16 +0100 From: "Ross, Les" Subject: Same Situation on WOHAM This show aired recently on one of our Digital TV channels here in the UK. It was good to see again. I'll be picking up the DVD with, yes, The Boxed Set probably this weekend though my DVD player has thrown all its toys out of the pram and refuses to play. Piece of $hit! Anyway, in the show there is video of joni playing The Same Situation alone at the piano. It's just a few intercuts with some of the singing continuing over other stuff. Well, I've really taken by this rendition. It seems slower and (am I imagining this?) sung in a lower register than the C&S version. Is this available on any of our tape trees as a complete recording? Hopefully Les (london, savouring a slow down in workload....probably speaking too soon. The light at the end of the tunnel is probably a train coming towards me!!! Ever the optimist :-) ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:45:03 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Boxed in In a message dated 9/24/03 10:16:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy writes: > Like I say, this genre (Joni's unreleased early material) is > utterly fascinating to me, and it speaks volumes about her that > when she went to cut her first album she walked in with almost > all new songs! The average artist would cull the best of the work > they had done to that point and record them. But "average" is > certainly not a word that applies to Joni Mitchell. > > Bob > > That reminds me of an estimate she gave early on (to Johnny Cash, perhaps ?) of the number of songs she had written to that point - "about 100). Counting the 40 or so just listed, plus another 35 from her first 3 albums (and I believe that Joni's comment was made even before Clouds came out), that would still leave about 25 unaccounted for - songs she wrote that we do not know about - ore perhaps a touch of mathematical liberty on her part. Mere speculation, of course, but it would be interesting to discover additional songs from that early period. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:48:53 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: the french diphthong (for AOL members) - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Wally Kairuz" Para: Enviado: jueves, 25 de septiembre de 2003 9:21 Asunto: the french diphthong > i still don't get the french diphthong thing. why did joni call "long long" > a french diphthong? was she trying to imitate a french sound? from what i > understand, the track on the geffen box track is two gray rooms, but instead > of lyrics joni sings the words "long long". is that right? > finally, what is the complete list of previously unreleased songs on the G > box? > wally ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:17:53 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Boxed in > that would still > leave about 25 unaccounted for - songs she wrote that we do > not know about - > ore perhaps a touch of mathematical liberty on her part. Well, she does mention in an intro to "Mr. Blue" that it's a pastiche of unfinished songs, so maybe she was also counting the bits & pieces. In any regard I'd love to hear any and every syllable! Bob NP: Neil Young, "War Of Man" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:21:49 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Judgement of the Moon and Stars Hi Ya'll, I was listening the the Judgement of the Moon and Stars and was really moved by the imagery of the movement of the piano keys being only the surface expression of what goes on with much more power inside the piano. I hadn't really thought much about how inside it is really hammering, forcefully moving the strings to vibrate, and how what the pianist does to the keys is sort of just the opposite of that... like her fingers are moving superficially to express the incredible array of fireworks (emotions) going on in her nervous system. Paradoxes, parallels, all kinds of geometry. Awesome song. Lightening across the sky, Dr. Laura ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:26:44 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: I'm comin' back for more JC > So, I guess I need to be catching up on some > stuff........any word on the > tribute album? Remember that? Hiya Russ! Welcome back! No word on the "official" tribute disc, shrouded in controversy I suppose. You'd think the bums would at least send ME a boot copy of it for all my sleuthing/capturing of Joni covers...at least we here on the JMDL can celebrate "unoffical" tributes each month, at least until the money runs out anyway. Speaking of which, I'm looking for a Hawaiian CD that's gone out of print with a cool cover on it. Mail me back offlist & I'll give you the particulars if you're interested. Also, go ahead and start working on the "Pacific Jonifest" plans! :~) Bob NP: Neil, "One Of These Days" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 05:29:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Emily Tedrowe Subject: box set bummer hi all. i've been depressed about joni, and about this geffen set, all week. how much would i love to hear joni sing my favorite dylan tune "it's all over now, baby blue"? unfortunately, that's exactly how i have to calculate it--and as a new mom, i can't justify $50 for CDs i already own. and don't even like that much, relatively speaking. but more than that, i'm bummed that joni lately is alienating someone like me--a huge fan--by releasing tons of expensive, over-packaged, over-produced, and already released material. i'm not trying to bring on the flames, but in my opinion, "travelogue" is a boggy, soggy mess, one that delivers a lot of schmaltz in fancy overdone window dressing. i've written before that joni "needs to get out more"--what i mean is, i have this image of her surrounded by yes men, bitching about how the industry screwed her and nobody's music compares to hers, yadda yadda, pausing only occasionally to toss off some kind of big expensive and ultimately useless package at US, her biggest fans. it makes me so irritated. why does she think i can afford these big old box sets?? i cringe every time i see "travelogue" awkwardly stuffed in my CD rack, and don't even get me started on the BSN "hatbox" debacle. i'm truly sorry to feel this way, and i realize it's my own opinion, my own frustration at a great artist offering us pale comparisons of the work she used to make. but, damn, joni--i feel like i'm the kind of fan you say you WANT, the one who craves your newest work, not your old "greatest hits." if you're done with writing music, i understand and accept it (not really!)--enjoy your painting and your newfound life with a grandchild. you've given us so much! but for god's sake, quit it with the occasional bank-breaking re-issues. it feels like a con. - -- emily, disheartened, in chicago The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:52:30 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: State assasination of Arafat Dear Laurent, Sorry I am a little behind in my digests. I can only speak for myself, but I was brought up with that familiar advice about the two subjects to avoid discussing: religion and politics. Breaking that rule has always been disastrous for me but I do have to say that I agree with you that Israel always seems to be held to a higher standard by the rest of the world. It has always puzzled me. I didn't realize that they also held themselves to a higher standard. I think I have to take a chance to step forward and say that I totally agree with your comments. Sherelle (shrinking back into lurkdom...) Mike wrote: > >>RAMALLAH, West Bank - Israel's vice prime minister said killing Yasser >Arafat is an option for Israel...... Is nobody going to use the 'terror' word here, or does it only apply >in one direction? Is there nobody in the White House (or anywhere) prepared to >condemn this threat for what it is, the murder of a citizen by foreign >government? Hi Mike, I have never heard of any Palestinian terrorists giving advance warning before blowing themselves up in a crowded place, have you? I did however hear about the jewish "terrorist" movement calling the King David Hotel circa 1947 to warn of a bomb explosion hours ahead. So how can you compare the 2 approaches? Without commenting on the merits of Israel's decision, on the method itself I think that at least Arafat knows what to expect if he doesn't leave voluntarily. You are aware no doubt that Israelis could have killed Arafat hundreds of times over the years if they had wanted to. Now they are upfront about it. That's more than I can say about any government in the world who decides to eliminate someone. In general, I feel that Israelis are held to a much higher standard by the rest of the world and by themselves as well than their opponents. And I know you disagree on this double standards issue. Yes you surely have read some Israeli "new historians" who write about the moral decay of the country. For one thing, these writers represent a minuscule percentage of israeli opinion, yet they get much publicity from the foreign press. At any rate, I'm yet to read any criticism from Palestinians about their acts. Perhaps those who think that way are afraid to voice their opinion, don't you think? Laurent _________________________________________________________________ Help protect your PC. Get a FREE computer virus scan online from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:56:48 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: box set bummer > i'm truly sorry to feel this way, and i realize it's my own opinion, my own frustration at a great artist offering us pale comparisons of the work she used to make. but, damn, joni--i feel like i'm the kind of fan you say you WANT, the one who craves your newest work, not your old "greatest hits." I think you have every right to feel that way and you shouldn't apologize. I think its a feeling shared by many. Victor Victor Johnson New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville http://www.waytobluemusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:58:35 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: The Geffen Set > finally, what is the complete list of previously unreleased > songs on the G> > box? Wally, from the All-Music Guide review: "For starters, punters should not get their hopes up about any unreleased material on this box set-there are exactly three cuts, two are unfinished demo versions of songs already on their respective albums- "Two Grey Rooms" and "Good Friends"-as well as an unreleased cover version of Dylan's "It's All Over Now Baby Blue." The rest of the review: But that's fine, just fine. The bottom line is that these records haven't been available in some time due to the profound folly of the accountants who run the Geffen imprint who wouldn't know art if it were hanging in their living rooms. The box is stunning, gorgeous even in its earthtone glory with a brilliant inset photograph by former husband and producer Larry Klein. There are poignant photos, the albums in their original sleeves, a completely searing unapologetic set of liner notes from Ms. Mitchell, reproductions of paintings, etc. Ms. Mitchell's comments that introduce many of the songs here are priceless. These and the liner notes are almost worth the price of the box. The only design problem seems to be that the booklet falls apart a bit from its stitching but that's not really a big deal.However, there is the music to contend with. When Mitchell entered the '80s with Wild Run Things Run Fast, her first studio album of the decade coming off Mingus and the transcendent Shadows And Light tour. Lyrically Mitchell met the challenge head on, and musically she did as she always did: followed her own Muse deeper into the realms of jazz and classic American pop. She collaborated with Larry Klein for the first -as she has ever since-and began using small core bands with Klein's bass as an anchor and numerous guests inclding Wayne Shorter, Lionel Ritchie, Brenda Russell, Alex Acuna, even Cricket from Mercury Rev made an appearance on Night Ride Home. On this box it becomes obvious that Wild Things Run Fast set a template for four very different yet linked recordings. With its jazzy edges and its liberal use of early rock and roll and classic R&B (at one point in "Chinese Laundry" Mitchell does a very moving rendition of "Unchained Melody" and at another covers Lieber & Stoller's "You're So Square"). Critics were downright hostile to Dog Eat Dog from the cover on in to the music. Given its dark meditations on the era, it's use of Thomas Dolby and technology, it flew in the face of 80s-styled simple sheeny rock took to task the rampant materialism of the age and its complete abandonment of human concerns for commerce and cultural iconography. It also laughed at the forced simplicity of popular music at the time with a rampant sophistication and cool. Chalk Mark In A Rain Strom with its Native American themes and mystical jazz tropes is simply a brilliant recording that was received with kindness and even some understanding by critics, but it sold miserably even though its guests reflected a who's who of the MTV era: Peter Gabriel, Billy Idol, Don Henley, Tom Petty and Wendy and Lisa (from Prince's band). Night Ride Home garnered decent reviews as well; it featured a stripped down more acoustic sound and is one of the most lyrically brilliant and ambitious of Ms. Mitchell's many albums. Here was a long reflection on endings, dark ambiguities and the willingness to stay inside a place that offers no certainty in order to live one's way into an answer. Tracks like "The Windfall," "Slouching Toward Bethlehem," "Cherokee Louise," and "Come In From The Cold," offers vision of steadfastness in dark and wavering trials of the soul. Her version of Dylan's "Baby Blue" here is a real bonus; it's a revelatory reading of monolithic song. Revealing her to still be full of the trickster's promise and the visionary's unwavering gaze into the future, this is a box set worthy of Ms. Mitchell's contribution." They give it Four-and-a-half stars. Bob NP: Neil Young, "Walk On" 9/8/00 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:16:56 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: The Geffen Set > (at one point in "Chinese Laundry" Mitchell does a very moving rendition of "Unchained Melody" and at another covers > Lieber & Stoller's "You're So Square"). And the more subtle one as well...in the title track, at the end of the song, Joni sings "Wild Thing...I thought you loved me" which is a reference to the Troggs classic garage rocker "Wild Thing" when they sing. "Wild Thing, I think I love you..." Bob NP: Neil, "Words" 9/24/00 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:24:21 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: The Geffen Set "Chinese Laundry"? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of > SCJoniGuy@aol.com > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 9:17 AM > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: The Geffen Set > > > > (at one point in "Chinese Laundry" Mitchell does a very moving > rendition of "Unchained Melody" and at another covers > > Lieber & Stoller's "You're So Square"). > > And the more subtle one as well...in the title track, at the > end of the song, Joni sings "Wild Thing...I thought you loved > me" which is a reference to the Troggs classic garage rocker > "Wild Thing" when they sing. "Wild Thing, I think I love you..." > > Bob > > NP: Neil, "Words" 9/24/00 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:42:49 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: The Geffen Set > "Chinese Laundry"? Their mistake, not mine. Anybody who'd call CMIARS brilliant ain't real bright. No tickee, no shirtee. Bob NP: Neil, "World On A String" 9/14/00 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:34:18 -0600 From: twoshoes@sasktel.net Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #298 Good idea. Will do. I'll start with CBC Radio, Canada's national; and CKUA in Edmonton and Calgary. Least I can do! Kate du Nord > I am thinking we could be sending out little innocent emails to our favourite > radio stations and such, to gently remind them of the significance of this > upcoming November 7th. Perhaps we can engender some interesting Joni tribute > radio segments and get some Joni tunes on the airwaves! > > Michael in Quebec ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:46:47 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Re: State assasination of Arafat I do have to say that I agree with you that Israel > always seems to be held to a higher standard by the rest of the world. It > has always puzzled me. I didn't realize that they also held themselves to a > higher standard. I think I have to take a chance to step forward and say > that I totally agree with your comments. > > Sherelle > > > Dear Sherelle, Thanks for stepping forward. The fact that Israelis hold themselves to a higher standard stems from the often misconstrued notion of "chosen people". It means that they chose to follow the rules in the bible because, hey, someone had to set the example. The story is that God offered the bible to all nations in the world, and that nobody else wanted it because they were not interested in forgoing killing, stealing, adultery, etc . Only the jews agreed and the rest is history. Hence the "chosen people" means the responsability to follow the rules i.e higher moral standard. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:24:19 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: The Geffen Set Wally, from the All-Music Guide review writes: << even Cricket from Mercury Rev made an appearance on Night Ride Home >> Does anyone know what this means? I thought the cricket sound effect was just a cricket sound effect. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:45:00 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Speaking of Geffen -- with a link to Joni content Here's what an article entitled "The RIchest People in America" at Forbes.com has to say about the original free man in Paris: David Geffen $4 billion DreamWorks. Malibu, Calif. 60. Single "I have no interest in making money anymore. Everything I make in the entertainment business will go to charity." So said Hollywood's richest man when asked what he intends to do with any money from DreamWorks SKG, founded with Jeffrey Katzenberg and Steven Spielberg (see both). He has already pledged $200 million to the UCLA medical school. Environmentalists are miffed that he wants to limit public beach access rights near his home in Malibu.* * See also: http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/index.html?uc_full_date=20020928&uc_comic=db&uc_daction=X It's a Doonesbury strip with Joni and Geffen content! (Thanks to Lori!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:34:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Boxed in Sooooo does this mean you'll do it Bobby Baby!?? I would love to have this collection, there is just toooo much I dont have and I am always running behind the times. Soooo ... let me know please dearest sweetest sexiest Bob. (Susan bats eyes at Muller in weak attempt to feign attraction for favor). I don't even need the Sing Out songs necessarily - since I have the video - so whatever is easiest for you hun. I know you have plenty of time on your hands - ya slacker - LOL! There that's more like me! Peace, Susan SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > I think it's a must do project. I actually did put something along these lines together earlier this year...before the "Let's Sing Out" stuff showed up. A 2-cd set called "Joni - Off The Record" that was sort of a special request from someone. So it wouldn't take much to rework it and include the Let's Sing Out stuff as well. That way you don't need to get 10-12 cd's just to get the unreleased stuff. Besides the early unreleased Joni, it captures some of the recordings she did of other's material like Yarrow & Mr. Tambourine Man, and the duets of other's material that she did with Johnny Cash, Fred Neill, etc. The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:23:41 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: Judgement of the Moon and Stars At 08:21 AM 9/25/2003, LCStanley7@aol.com wrote: >I was listening the the Judgement of the Moon and Stars >Awesome song. Agreed. It's incredibly powerful. Musically stunning with lyrics conjuring vivid images. A huge song which anchors the exquisite album FTR and leaves me breathless. But most of all it has always seemed Joni captured what I was feeling and thinking. "Ludwig" begins somberly which matches feelings of despair and introspection, then builds to an emotional climax when Joni nearly screams "get on with it!" The admonishments to "shake your fists" and "you've got to roar" and "Jesus well then you yell it" have served me well many times, even if used with restraint. It's about taking charge, about making *yourself* better. I take it quite literally as words to live by. The flow of the musical structure and all the layering makes the whole all the more moving. Awesome, indeed. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:01:40 +0100 From: "joe farrell" Subject: Joni-Off The Record sjc Hi Bob, The Joni-Off The Record project sounds like a great idea. If you do go ahead and do it i would definitely be very interested in getting hold of a copy. It would tide us over until the "real" box-set comes out. Go for it Bob. Greetings, Joe. np: Joni: My Old Man ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:57:33 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: The Geffen Set thank you very much for the information, bob! in other times, i would have bought the box right away and maybe give the discs a spin or two before i forgot all about them (that was the case with BSN -- i was rich, young and beautiful then! i'd walk into tower records at lincoln center and raid the store!). but now... well, the price for this box is as much as my maintenance payment, so i think i'll pass. maybe when joni does some german diphthongs, i'll look into the matter again. wally, np: swing out sister, "here and now". ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:04:38 +0100 From: "StephenToogood" Subject: Re: Hosl Keep with it Mack. Took me months to get/like it. It's so unique and amazing. The tracks that grabbed me first were: 'Harry's House/Centerpiece', 'The Hissing Of Summer Lawns', 'Edith & The Kingpin' and 'Shades Of Scarlet Conquering'. I now love them all! ************** Steve T amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk "Red is autumn green is summer Greens are turning and the sand" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "mack watson-bush" To: "joni" Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 10:56 PM Subject: Hosl > Well, three more days and continuous play of this album leave me empty and I > still don't get it. > > mack ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:08:43 +0100 From: "StephenToogood" Subject: Re: DED Lama wrote: > I think I heard her in an interview saying DOG EAT DOG was her most expensive > album ever. Oh the irony! I think this was her worst charting 'original' album too. Not her worst though, I think! ************** Steve T amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk "Red is autumn green is summer Greens are turning and the sand" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:17:47 +0100 From: "StephenToogood" Subject: Re: box set bummer Emily I totally agree with you. This does alienate a lot of people, especially new fans and young people as most will not want to take a risk at such a high price. I can not afford the Geffen box set but would get it if I did have the money because I would love to read what Joni has to say about some of the songs. Though I think that was Joni's bleakest period it does have it's moments. NRH is one of my fave Joni's! I love Joni's art and believe it is part of the package but the musical content is the most important and a jewel case showcases it all really well anyway. That way they stay in better condition too! The stitching from my TLOG booklet is starting to come apart already and I am quite delicate with my CD collection. ************** Steve T amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk "Red is autumn green is summer Greens are turning and the sand" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Emily Tedrowe" To: Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 1:29 PM Subject: box set bummer > hi all. i've been depressed about joni, and about this geffen set, all week. how much would i love to hear joni sing my favorite dylan tune "it's all over now, baby blue"? unfortunately, that's exactly how i have to calculate it--and as a new mom, i can't justify $50 for CDs i already own. and don't even like that much, relatively speaking. > > but more than that, i'm bummed that joni lately is alienating someone like me--a huge fan--by releasing tons of expensive, over-packaged, over-produced, and already released material. i'm not trying to bring on the flames, but in my opinion, "travelogue" is a boggy, soggy mess, one that delivers a lot of schmaltz in fancy overdone window dressing. > > i've written before that joni "needs to get out more"--what i mean is, i have this image of her surrounded by yes men, bitching about how the industry screwed her and nobody's music compares to hers, yadda yadda, pausing only occasionally to toss off some kind of big expensive and ultimately useless package at US, her biggest fans. it makes me so irritated. why does she think i can afford these big old box sets?? i cringe every time i see "travelogue" awkwardly stuffed in my CD rack, and don't even get me started on the BSN "hatbox" debacle. > > i'm truly sorry to feel this way, and i realize it's my own opinion, my own frustration at a great artist offering us pale comparisons of the work she used to make. but, damn, joni--i feel like i'm the kind of fan you say you WANT, the one who craves your newest work, not your old "greatest hits." if you're done with writing music, i understand and accept it (not really!)--enjoy your painting and your newfound life with a grandchild. you've given us so much! but for god's sake, quit it with the occasional bank-breaking re-issues. it feels like a con. > > -- emily, disheartened, in chicago > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:20:41 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: The Geffen Set (for AOL members) (forwarded by Emiliano, who also has been in that T.Records store... and will ask this Geffen boxset for Christmas: first I will ask for PazFest CD) - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Wally Kairuz" Para: ; Enviado: jueves, 25 de septiembre de 2003 20:57 Asunto: RE: The Geffen Set > thank you very much for the information, bob! > in other times, i would have bought the box right away and maybe give the > discs a spin or two before i forgot all about them (that was the case with > BSN -- i was rich, young and beautiful then! i'd walk into tower records at > lincoln center and raid the store!). but now... well, the price for this box > is as much as my maintenance payment, so i think i'll pass. > maybe when joni does some german diphthongs, i'll look into the matter > again. > wally, np: swing out sister, "here and now". ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:25:06 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: Hosl Yes, Mack, my case was the same... back in the so old days! It took me quite a lot of time and "causal hearings" before "getting" "Shades of Scarlett conquering". My first raptures were at "In France the Kiss in MainStreet" (of course) and "Don't interrupt the sorrow" (of Course!). You must confess: you love both by now, don't you dear? Have a Wonderful time! Emiliano - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "StephenToogood" Para: "Joni List" Enviado: jueves, 25 de septiembre de 2003 21:04 Asunto: Re: Hosl > Keep with it Mack. Took me months to get/like it. It's so unique and > amazing. The tracks that grabbed me first were: 'Harry's House/Centerpiece', > 'The Hissing Of Summer Lawns', 'Edith & The Kingpin' and 'Shades Of Scarlet > Conquering'. I now love them all! > > ************** > Steve T > > amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk > > "Red is autumn green is summer > Greens are turning and the sand" > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "mack watson-bush" > To: "joni" > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 10:56 PM > Subject: Hosl > > > > Well, three more days and continuous play of this album leave me empty and > I > > still don't get it. > > > > mack ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:36:40 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Making $$$ off the BF Catherine wrote: <> Since I am so behind, this has probably already been answered already, but Charles Addams, (Chas) who created the Addams family, is my FAVORITE artist. I have loved his work since I was really little, and love his macabre sense of humor. My favorite Charles Addams memory is when I went to New York to meet fellow JMDLer Kenny Grant for the first time. (Rest in peace, dear friend.) I told him we could do anything he wanted in New York, but I HAD to go to the New York public library to see the Charles Addams originals. (They have a revolving permanent exhibit.) He literally took me directly there from the airport when I arrived, and I spent a very long time gazing into the original watercolors that I had only previously seen in black and white in a book. Hugs, Ashara, missing Kenny ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:25:52 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: The Geffen Set > Their mistake, not mine. Anybody who'd call CMIARS brilliant ain't > real bright. Why? Because his opinion doesn't happen to agree with yours? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:41:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: box set bummer --- Emily Tedrowe wrote: > hi all. i've been depressed about joni, and about > this geffen set, all week. how much would i love to > hear joni sing my favorite dylan tune "it's all over > now, baby blue"? unfortunately, that's exactly how > i have to calculate it--and as a new mom, i can't > justify $50 for CDs i already own. and don't even > like that much, relatively speaking. Emily, you've expressed precisely what I feel about this whole thing. Here in Canada, it's $74 (which, considering the exchange rate, is about equivalent to $40 or so USD). That's a week's worth of groceries for me (actually, I spend more than that but in a hard week, I sometimes spend even less.) Do I buy an overpriced set of discs that I already own in individual pieces just to gain three "unreleased" songs and a booklet that may or may not be nice to look at (depends on who you taik to), or do I buy food for my kids? That's what it comes down to for me. I'm just not that interested. If the price dropped - significantly - and I happened to come into some money (unlikely at this point, but hey, ya never know), then I might consider it. But it would be way down the list behind a bunch of other CDs I'd rather have. Maybe in ten years or so, I'll spot it in a bargain bin for $10 and pick it up then - or maybe not. > but more than that, i'm bummed that joni lately is > alienating someone like me--a huge fan--by releasing > tons of expensive, over-packaged, over-produced, and > already released material. Yup. I agree with that. I'm disappointed. Can this be the end of my lifelong love affair with Joni? Heaven forfend! I wonder if it was her idea or someone else's? I suppose if you were a really new Joni-fan who suddenly decided they just had to have all of her stuff - at once - then you'd buy it. Or if you're someone that has to have every new toy that comes out (and can afford it). But how many people fit that description? Or, if the sound is superior and you have a good stereo (not me), and you could tell the difference (once again, not me), then go for it, what the hell? > i'm truly sorry to feel this way, and i realize it's > my own opinion, my own frustration at a great artist > offering us pale comparisons of the work she used to > make. but, damn, joni--i feel like i'm the kind of > fan you say you WANT, the one who craves your newest > work, not your old "greatest hits." if you're done > with writing music, i understand and accept it (not > really!)--enjoy your painting and your newfound life > with a grandchild. you've given us so much! but > for god's sake, quit it with the occasional > bank-breaking re-issues. it feels like a con. Don't be sorry about feeling the way you do. You can't help it :-) and you're not alone either :-) :-) Rock on! ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:45:16 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: box set bummer Emily Tedrowe wrote: > hi all. i've been depressed about joni, and about this geffen set, > all week. how much would i love to hear joni sing my favorite dylan > tune "it's all over now, baby blue"? unfortunately, that's exactly > how i have to calculate it--and as a new mom, i can't justify $50 for > CDs i already own. and don't even like that much, relatively > speaking. I can certainly understand your feelings about this, Emily. I have to say that I am still debating about whether or not I want to buy this. The promise of liner notes from Joni herself is very tempting, though. That being said, I'm wondering how much of this release has to do with Joni and how much has to do with Geffen? Granted, she must have cooperated if she wrote liner notes. But do you really think the whole concept was her idea to begin with? Of course she might be wanting people to take another look at her much-maligned 80s work. I think it deserves revisiting but it's too bad it all has to come in one chunk with such a hefty price tag. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:54:50 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: box set bummer Catherine wrote: > I wonder if it was her idea or someone else's? I I seriously don't understand why so many of you all blame Joni personally for this stuff. These types of products come from record company business and marketing decisions. I only have a rough idea of how song licensing and record contracts work (where's Brenda?!) but I'm pretty sure Joni has very little to do with what they release, etc., except for maybe adding her two cents on the artistic side and liner notes (which she should do). She has no power or input into how much they charge or whether or not to release stuff. Many artists have released box sets for years and I have spent much more for some of them. I agree that a Joni box set should include a whole bunch of demos and previously unreleased material. Why she can't get them to do that, I don't know, but I also don't know that she has all the say in it, either. It would be a good interview question for her, though. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:58:17 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: box set bummer Mark wrote: > That being said, I'm wondering how much of this release has to do with > Joni and how much has to do with Geffen? Geffen was bought by MCA - now Universal Music Group - back in around 1990-91. UMG is currenly the biggest record company in the world. I guess one would expect a more big business approach than a "catered to her oldest fans" approach with them. Maybe she should go to Rhino Records for the REAL boxset! Rhino has put out some incredible rare gems over the years. Maybe she is holding out for that! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:01:36 -0500 From: David Sadowski Subject: Re: Making $$$ off the BF Around 1980, I tried to send Charles Addams a cartoon idea, but it naturally got rejected by The New Yorker (via a form letter, I recall). The joke wasn't very good. There is a sign on the front door of a funeral parlor... it says, "No shoes, No shirt, No service." AsharaJM@aol.com wrote: >Catherine wrote: > ><Family cartoons (was his name Addams by any chance?>> > >Since I am so behind, this has probably already been answered already, but >Charles Addams, (Chas) who created the Addams family, is my FAVORITE artist. I >have loved his work since I was really little, and love his macabre sense of >humor. > >My favorite Charles Addams memory is when I went to New York to meet fellow >JMDLer Kenny Grant for the first time. (Rest in peace, dear friend.) I told him >we could do anything he wanted in New York, but I HAD to go to the New York >public library to see the Charles Addams originals. (They have a revolving >permanent exhibit.) He literally took me directly there from the airport when I >arrived, and I spent a very long time gazing into the original watercolors that >I had only previously seen in black and white in a book. > >Hugs, >Ashara, missing Kenny ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:04:28 -0400 From: Subject: COMPLETE GEFFEN RECORDINGS, now in stores I know I'm gonna catch a bunch of flak for this but... DOG EAT DOG is vastly easier to listen to in this incarnation. There are so many layers, textures, sound effects, and percussion parts on this record that the old, pinched CD sound was a crime. Old version of the title track at 2m: 37s >> cccccdogeatdogccccccccccccccccc >> cccccyelldowellindishdddahccccc >> andcccracketeerscscscscsc New version: BASHHHhhhss.. ...... BASHHHhhhss.. .....2:35 "dog... dog..." ...... "It's.. dog.. eat.. dog." ...... "dog... dog..." ..... "YOU'LL DO" "well in this land of snakebite evangelists and racketeers." "You could get to be.." "a bigwig!" "FINANCIER!" ...... BASHHHhhhss.. ...... Unlike my old cd value-line copy, this one has some dynamics. It gets loud then has quiet spaces. Some lines are very processed and others are totally dry, lending a blurring to the difference between the percussion parts and the lyrics. I'm enjoying it. Lama np: There has been a cool bass line under "Shiny Toys" all this time. Who knew? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:30:45 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Speechless . "Speechless" is track 12. "Speechless" is complete. "Speechless" is Larry Klein on bass, Vinnie Colaiuta on Blade-like drums, Mike Landau holding down electric guitar, and Joni scatting French vowels. Most of all though, "Speechless" is a Joni piano track, laid bare in all its glory. Uncirculated until this week, it's available on THE COMPLETE GEFFEN RECORDINGS. All the best, Lama Well, now I'm speechless. Great job of story telling, Lama. I'll look for it now that I'm gonna buy it (at least, eventually). Best back at you Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:55:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: box set bummer --- kakki wrote: > I seriously don't understand why so many of you all > blame Joni personally > for this stuff. These types of products come from > record company business > and marketing decisions. I only have a rough idea > of how song licensing and > record contracts work (where's Brenda?!) but I'm > pretty sure Joni has very > little to do with what they release, etc., except > for maybe adding her two > cents on the artistic side and liner notes (which > she should do). She has no > power or input into how much they charge or whether > or not to release stuff. I'm sure it's some guy in a suit who drives an SUV or a hummer that thought this one up. It definitely smacks of corporate greed and out-of-touch-with-reality-ness to me. Joni probably had a contractual agreement of some kind to fulfill as well (or has she already completed that contract?) I don't blame her personally, but I guess I'm just not that big a fan of box sets, unless you can buy them on the instalment plan. My experience with box sets is that they have a lot of good stuff on them, but also a lot of crap (maybe I'm just not that big a fan of anyone, because what is crap to me may be manna to someone else.) But then again, I just bought a box set of Bruuuuces' live stuff so I speak out of both sides of my mouth. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 0:56:19 -0400 From: Subject: Re: box set bummer A point of clarification about the liner notes: For most songs her comment is no more than 2 paragraphs. The booklet is printed on heavy card stock but that means that it has LESS of a chance to survive to middle age. When you open it, the relatively inflexible cardstock stresses the glue. The glue acts along the edge of the cardstock to hold it together. I will repeat that: Glue on the edge of the cardstock holds it in the binder. I am positive that stapled paper would hold together much longer. Shiny cardstock is initally impressive like the BSN box. I didn't buy it for her text. I bought it for "Speechless" and to get remastered version I can listen to far away from my turntable. I am not bummed. You want to buy Joni on the cheap? Pick up 'hits' or 'DOG EAT DOG'. Go to a used record store and buy used LPs. The bindings on my 25-year-old LPs of BLUE, FOR THE ROSES, MINGUS, COURT AND SPARK, MILES OF AISLES, etc are holding together just fine. This new box is just another option; no one is being force-fed here. If you want a cheap CD, by all means, get a used CD from the Geffen years. Emily, I'll send my old copy of DED if you want it. Write me off-list. Okay? Lama ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:32:54 -0600 From: "Shane" Subject: (No Subject) bonjour i discovered a young woman named rosie thomas today and her album at tower records can be sampled here (for instance, try 'charlotte')... the uncanny joni like quality is unmistakable and might just blow you away as it did me: http://www.towerrecords.com/product.aspx?pfid=2616173&used=y&urlid=cb8329723696ff6a97 warm hello to all shane *************************************** she takes off from los angeles climbing higher, on a sunset dream try and hold her, like the ocean clouds *************************************** www.shane.ws *************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 02:13:28 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: September 26 On September 26 the following articles were published: 1997: "Pass the Salt, Please" - JMDL (Interview, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=171 1998: "Mitchell Brings Perspective and Wit to 'Taming the Tiger'" - Los Angeles Times (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=152 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #300 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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