From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #283 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, September 9 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 283 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: timeline and Let's Sing Out ["kakki" ] Re: timeline and Let's Sing Out [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: CSN, was Re: Joni content by 6 degrees of separation [notaro@stpt.usf] RE: Depression and Grief ["Linda Crawford" ] Re: timeline and Let's Sing Out ["J.David Sapp" ] Re: timeline and Let's Sing Out [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] re:Hejira (long) ["J.David Sapp" ] Re: timeline and Let's Sing Out ["J.David Sapp" ] Warren Zevon Tribute [David Sadowski ] RE: what works for depression. a wee bit JC ["Sherelle Smith" ] warren zevon ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #450 [HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com] What works for depression? ["Suzanne MarcAurele" ] Re: What works for depression? [KJHSF@aol.com] Re: CSN: Joni content by 6 degrees of separation [PassScribe@aol.com] Getting to Know You (SJC) ["Linda Crawford" ] Depression and Grief ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: What works for depression? [Catherine McKay ] Re: Getting to Know You (SJC) ["Lori Fye" ] RE: Depression and Grief [Catherine McKay ] Re: Getting to Know You (SJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] JMDL Digest V2003 #451 [HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com] Today in History: September 9 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: September 9 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 00:13:56 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: timeline and Let's Sing Out Bob M. wrote: > Yes, & I suppose I assumed incorrectly that she hadn't married > Chuck yet in Oct. 65 which is why she was introduced as "Joni > Anderson", but as Bob points out that is incorrect, so thanks > Bob for correcting that. When I watched the video I noticed she was still wearing what appeared to be a diamond wedding ring set. > But how telling that she chooses to be > introduced with her maiden name as opposed to her married name, > probably thinking in that "I can get out of this" mentality. Yes - probably already decided "I *am* getting out of this!" > Anyway, as for the year between Oct '65/Oct '66, I don't guess > that anything overly traumatic happened to her EXCEPT for the > fact that she probably was beginning to feel trapped in an > oppressive and loveless marriage. You can almost see the weight > of it (at times) on her face during some of those '66 performances. I looked for the difference between the two performances but didn't see any overt signs of trauma in her personality. She did seem a little more matured, however, and the music was as good as ever. And speaking of covers, I got all excited the other day at work while listening to the radio and they announced a "song by Joni Mitchell." I thought maybe radio had come back here a bit in LA but alas it was Monty Alexander's slightly reggae, steel drum band cover of BYT ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 08:27:39 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: timeline and Let's Sing Out > She did seem a little more > matured, however, and the music was as good as ever. Amen to that! One of the "curses" of knowing all that we know of Joni is watching a wonderful piece of film like this and thinking about all the dirt below the surface. With that in mind, it's easy (for me anyway) to see things that aren't really there. Maybe it's just all the mascara! :~) Thanks too for sharing the news about Warren...I was expecting it but had not heard. What an example of artistic dignity he gave us. Let us continue to celebrate laughter, love, and life. Bob NP: Lucinda, "Something About What Happens When We Talk" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 09:07:52 -0400 (EDT) From: notaro@stpt.usf.edu Subject: Re: CSN, was Re: Joni content by 6 degrees of separation Quoting Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu : > Some of their shows in the 70s were a bit rough. Once everyone..... > uhmmm.... got healthy, they seemed to learn their parts and > stay at them. The first two times I saw them it sounded like everyone > was trying to take the harmonies in a different direction. Jim, You are being kind, Jim. Many times when I saw them live they were flatter than piss on a platter. But like fine wine, they've gotten better with age. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 09:21:10 -0400 From: "Linda Crawford" Subject: RE: Depression and Grief New member Linda Crawford here... I lost my older sister in 2000 and my father in the '90's. My sister died the day after my mother's birthday, my father right after Thanksgiving. I find that I still grieve for Peggy. Her birthday was two days before mine, and the same day as my daughter's anniversary. The grief is stronger when I call my mother on her birthday and we invariable start talking about Peggy. My father was an extreme alcoholic and was in and out (mostly out) of our lives as we were growing toward adulthood. When we all married and had settled with our own families, he suddenly reappeared -forever sober now- and was ready to join our lives. I found I didn't like him or his behavior and wanted no part of him. When he died, I grieved. I grieved not because of his passing and the things we would no longer be able to do together but for the lifetimes he had missed with his five children growing up. I am sorry he died but for me his death was years ago when he deserted the family. Peggy, although living apart from us, was always there for us when we needed her. I say all this not because I solicit your sympathy but as a way to explain my feelings on death and loss. Sometimes a person is lost to you even though they may be alive. You find yourself shutting off and closing those inside doors at any hope of reconciliation. So when they eventually pass on your sense of grief is already lessened. And then other people that were very much alive to you, their loss is all the more intense. I hope this makes sense and helps someone. I admit it has helped me in writing it. Linda-in middle Georgia sewbead@starband.net http://jerrycrawford.mystarband.net/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:17:02 -0500 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: Re: timeline and Let's Sing Out > Yes - probably already decided "I *am* getting out of this!"> Or sadder she was trying to preserve a link to Kelly Dale. I instantly thought Favorite Colour was one of those hidden message songs to her daughter. But I suppose we should look at the art as opposed to the artist. . peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 13:12:13 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: timeline and Let's Sing Out > I instantly > thought Favorite Colour was one of those hidden message songs to her > daughter. I thought the same thing, David...what's that opening line? I met a girl a year ago, Whose eyes would never see... (working from memory so it might not be exact) Anyway, it made me think that she was speaking of Kelly, and she talks to the girl in a motherly fashion. Perhaps if you have the time you can post the entire lyric here, it's not a very long song. I transcribed it and e-mailed JoniMitchell.com about 6 weeks ago, but got no response & the song remains unlisted. Maybe Les will post them in his lyric database, after all he has to get back in good standing with the Inner Circle. ;~) > > But I suppose we should look at the art as opposed to the > artist. It's sometimes hard to separate the two however, especially when you're dealing with an artist who admits to writing in her own blood. Bob NP: Cassandra Wilson, "Blue Light 'Til Dawn" 7/1/95 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:31:32 -0500 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: re:Hejira (long) Richard - I loved, loved, loved the analysis - please give us more when you can. peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:52:42 -0500 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: Re: timeline and Let's Sing Out > It's sometimes hard to separate the two > For me with Joni its virtually impossible. > I met a girl a year ago, > Whose eyes would never see... That's basically it...In spite of the inexperienced nature of the songwriting it deals with timeless Joni themes: Borderlines - what color is a man? and the biggie LOVE - the Favorite Colour in question. peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 12:50:36 -0500 From: David Sadowski Subject: Warren Zevon Tribute I wrote a tribute song to WZ on the day I heard he was terminally ill... and just pulled out the lyric again today for the first time since then. Here it is. - -Dave A Task For the Departed There's a task for the departed And all the broken hearted Though I know that you've already Given all your best While I see that you'll be leaving There's still something to believe in I hope nothing will disturb you When you take your rest I don't write too many love songs I heard you say But I'm here to tell you Love will find a way That is something worth remembering When I hear you sing your song That the good we do will carry on Long after we're all gone It was all so long ago, it all began The world has really changed a lot since then And the people that you meet Living lives that aren't complete Sometimes it's really hard to find a friend There's an unwelcome truth We all have to face No one will ever take your place Have a drink on me, my friend Hope to see you sometime In the end There's a voice still singing In the darkness If you listen closely You can hear it still That says it's hard But keep on trying You know I will... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 19:25:48 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: RE: what works for depression. a wee bit JC Thank you so much for sharing what you are going through with your friend and I totally agree that Heijra should be available by prescription. It also seems we are dealing with more loss than usual lately. Ijsut found out at lunch that a good coworker and friend died this past Saturday from a heart attack. I don't think he was much older than thirty and his wife is within days of expecting their first child. She is not in very good shape. I was with him the day he got the official word he was having a child. He was at my desk telling me and another coworker about a dream he'd had that his wife was pregnant. No sooner than he told us the story, his wife pulled up, called him outside, and told him that she was indeed pregnant. He was going to surprise her with a framed picture of an angelic infant to let her know about the dream. I was more excited than he was! Buck was a very positive person overcoming much mental abuse from his grandmother. In her possesiveness, she disowned him because he wanted to get married. When he'd call, she would hang up on him. To my knowledge, she never reached out to him and it broke his heart. I am so thankful that I had the chance to talk about dealing with death and depression with you and the group earlier because I seem to be in better shape to handle this. I will try to remember him as someone who always had something positive and helpful to say to me and everyone around. I will remember him as someone who overcame tremendous obstacles. Don't worry about me because I think I'm going to be all right this time. I am honored to have known such a wonderful person. Love, Sherelle I am currently supporting a friend who is battling cancer, one of the reasons I have not had the desire or time to post anything. She is only a few years older than I am, still young at 46, her youngest of four kids is only 12. It seems is such a common factor now, in all our lives, to be dealing with loss and despair. (and my heart goes out to those who are grieving right now, those who have reached out to the list) But one of the emotions(if indeed emotion is the right word) to describe the feeling that I notice overwhelming me after I have dealt with the depression/ celtic twilight stuff, is loneliness. _________________________________________________________________ Get 10MB of e-mail storage! Sign up for Hotmail Extra Storage. http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:58:25 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Hejira (long) richard i really loved reading this! thank you & i hope you share more of your thoughts with us as i really loved your style & thoughts! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:04:06 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: warren zevon passed away last night...i am so sad but happy to know that now he is free from pain...what an amazing journey he shared with us all- in his documentary & his final album...which i plan to get today & listen as i loved what i heard in the documentary...what a gift he gave us all with his songs & the astounding grace & humor he showed in his final hour... may he rest in peace ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 19:28:59 EDT From: HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #450 hello all, My name is Noel (yes , as in the christmas song :) ). I wanted to introduce myself to the group as i have just joined you in the last 2 days. In those days i have read a lot about death and reactions and supposed to be's and things like that. It would seem that this is a very tight knit group, one would not wonder over such a thing being connected to Joni. I don't claim to know anything about the dear people you've lost and the events surrounding their death's. i only know what i know about death, about illness and about life. being someone who suffers with suicidal depression, i have seen death face to face, and i know there is no comforting the survivors, no making sense of it, so i will not try to explain. seeing others close to me drift into death or be dragged from this the earthly life, i've tried to find meaning, he only meaning i can find is their peace. as for getting over it and moving on, i believe that because we never REALLY lose anyone, because they are always a part of it, there is no getting over it, there is just finding a way to pickup everyday and continue forward, never leaving anyone behind, never getting over it, just moving on as a new you. acceptance , forgivness and love. the cost of loving...is living, what a wonderful price to pay. I try to trust that every life and every death has it's meaning and when i least expect it it slaps me in the face and i smile. humbly peace Noel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 19:52:16 -0400 From: "Suzanne MarcAurele" Subject: What works for depression? Remembering that 99% seem to be too dense to even get depressed! S. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 19:59:53 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Welcome Noel! Hi Noel & welcome to the JMDL...thanks for hanging in there the last 2 days, yes much talk of death but some very extraordinary circumstances, usually we're a bit more cheery... Anyway, connecting your name to Joni...there was a singer by the name of Noel Harrison who was the first after Joni to record "Nathan LaFraneer", so your name has some cool Joni lore about it. And of course, Noel makes one think of Christmas which reminds us of Joni's "Christmas song", River. OK, it's not REALLY a Christmas song, BUT it appears on many a Christmas album. Go figure. Hey, it's a pretty song and puts some jingle in Joni's pocket, so I say go for it. Plus, I'm the Chairman of the Bored when it comes to Joni covers! :~) Look forward to hearing more from you pal! Bob NP: John Coltrane, "Spiral" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 19:46:21 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Warren Zevon Tribute David Have you recorded this? I would love to hear it if you have. If not I would like to hear it come about thru colaboration some kinda way. Best Paz > I wrote a tribute song to WZ on the day I heard he was terminally ill... > and just pulled out the lyric again today for the first time since > then. Here it is. > > -Dave > > A Task For the Departed > > There's a task for the departed > And all the broken hearted > Though I know that you've already > Given all your best > While I see that you'll be leaving > There's still something to believe in > I hope nothing will disturb you > When you take your rest > > I don't write too many love songs > I heard you say > But I'm here to tell you > Love will find a way > That is something worth remembering > When I hear you sing your song > That the good we do will carry on > Long after we're all gone > > It was all so long ago, it all began > The world has really changed a lot since then > And the people that you meet > Living lives that aren't complete > Sometimes it's really hard to find a friend > > There's an unwelcome truth > We all have to face > No one will ever take your place > Have a drink on me, my friend > Hope to see you sometime > In the end > > There's a voice still singing > In the darkness > If you listen closely > You can hear it still > That says it's hard > But keep on trying > You know I will... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 20:47:15 EDT From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: What works for depression? In a message dated 9/8/2003 7:41:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, smarcaurele@digitalproquo.com writes: Remembering that 99% seem to be too dense to even get depressed! Yes, and Joni related a Buddhist story about the poet being miserable because he muddies his own waters. There seems to exist, a segment of humanity (myself included) who become sort of existentially depressed from looking inward for answers all the time instead of being "light". And for all the downs involved, I'm not sure I'd swap this trait for blissful lightness. It has it's gifts, and is surely one of the things that allows me my deep appreciation of Joni as well as a passion for the rich tapestry that is life. Puffed up and strutting when I think I win Down and shaken when I think I lose Ken PS isn't it interesting that Joni says "when I think I win" rather than simply "when I win." Just another example that it's really all about the stories we tell ourselves about what is happening rather than the circumstance itself. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 20:53:50 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: CSN: Joni content by 6 degrees of separation In a message dated 9/8/03 12:59:23 AM, lamadoo@fuse.net writes: << Some of their shows in the 70s were a bit rough. Once everyone..... uhmmm.... got healthy, they seemed to learn their parts and stay at them. >> Yeah, I have to smile everytime I see Crosby live and he sings "...It increases my paranoia...it's like lookin' in my mirror and seein' a po-lice car...." Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 20:54:36 -0400 From: "Linda Crawford" Subject: Getting to Know You (SJC) Hey Cindy in Birmingham and all you other good folk! You ask how I found Joni? I grew up in Norfolk, VA., and lived mostly in the Ghent area in the '60s and '70s. I had a science teacher in the 8th grade who lived in the same neighborhood. His name was Mr. Culpepper-I don't recall his first name. Anyway, Mr. Culpepper liked to bring his guitar down to the Hague. The Hague is this body of water that came off of the Elizabeth River and was surrounded by a park. And during the '60s all of the hippies and flower children and folk singers (and mommies and babies, and winos) liked to hang out by the Hague. So I came across Mr. Culpepper one day and he taught me a few Joni songs from the Song to a Seagull LP. I sang 'em and he figured out the chords. He also exposed (now don't be thinking those kind of thoughts) me to Leonard Cohen, Bob Dylan, Joan Baez, Peter, Paul, and Mary, Woody Guthrie, Pete Seeger, and more. I've listened to Joni ever since. In fact I had such a love of music that my first job at the age of 16 was in a record store-Frankie's Got It Discount Records in downtown Norfolk. I know that I've driven my friends and family (especially my children) nuts by playing Joni repeatedly. I've had to replace my LP's several times! The record business is what brought me to Georgia in 1979. I was working for the Record Bar in Mobile and was transferred here. And after coming to Macon I fell in love, got married, had children, fell out of love, got divorced, got married again and honeymooned in Alaska in the 24 years I've been here. And what do I listen to? All kinds of stuff! Joni (of course), Jackson Browne, Bob Dylan, Pat Metheny, Moody Blues, Tony Bennett, Bach, Beethoven, Keith Jarrett, Twila Paris,and Secret Garden-to name a few. I am no longer in the music biz. I work at Michael's Arts and Crafts and do a lot of beading and sewing. And my sweet hubby and I are working on raising St. Bernards. Linda Crawford-who is also sad at Warren's passing-in middle Georgia sewbead@starband.net http://jerrycrawford.mystarband.net/ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Vickery" To: "Linda Crawford" Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 9:28 AM Subject: RE: Depression and Grief > > > hello linda-in-middle-georgia, and welcone to the list!! > glad to have you here! > your post is a wonderful introduction, and a great way to show > what we are here - we talk about joni and music, but we're so > much more than just that. > anyhow, when you have a moment, let us know how you found joni, > what your favorite songs are, who else you listen to - all that > good stuff. > and again, welcome!!! > > cindy, a fellow suthuner, in birmingham, alabama ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 18:00:22 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Depression and Grief linda>My father was an extreme alcoholic...he suddenly reappeared -forever sober now-and was ready to join our lives. I found I didn't like him or his behavior and wanted no part of him. When he died, I grieved.Sometimes a person is lost to you even though they may be alive.< hi linda thanks for sharing your story...i know what you are saying about grieving for someone who is lost though alive...i have learned much about the disease of addiction as it has touched several in my family throughout the generations...it is a wretched disease that steals people from their loved ones... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 21:01:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: What works for depression? --- Suzanne MarcAurele wrote: > Remembering that 99% seem to be too dense to even > get depressed! > > S. That's GREAT! I got the biggest laugh out of this and must remember it next time I feel reeeaaally sad. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 18:16:04 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Getting to Know You (SJC) Hey Linda! Good to get to know you! And a belated but huge WELCOME to the list!! Lori in Maryland ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 22:13:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: Depression and Grief --- Linda Crawford wrote: > New member Linda Crawford here... > ... > I hope this makes sense and helps someone. I admit > it > has helped me in writing it. > Linda, welcome. That was very brave of you to wade right in there. And you're right about how writing it helps. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 23:02:23 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Getting to Know You (SJC) >I was working >for the Record Bar in Mobile Ah yes, the Record Bar...brings back some memories, I bought lots of vinyl at the Record Bar at North Hills Mall in Raleigh where I used to work when I was in school. Matter of fact, I have a distinct memory of being in there on a break when they were playing a new record by an artist named Joni Mitchell called Hissing Of Summer Lawns! Bob NP: Sonny Stitt, "Goin' To D.C." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 23:19:29 EDT From: HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #451 all of you!!! what a warm welcome!!! I thank you, my soul is a brighter place already for having "met" you all. Peace Noel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 02:03:47 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: September 9 1979: Joni performed at the Santa Barbara County Bowl in Santa Barbara, California. Portions of this concert were released on the live album Shadows And Light. An edited videotape of the concert was shown on the Showtime cable channel and later released on videotape, laserdisc and DVD. 1998: Joni was interviewed by Jody Denberg at the Hotel Bel Air in Los Angeles. More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=998 - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 02:03:47 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: September 9 On September 9 the following articles were published: 1974: "80,000 Jam Roosevelt Track for Summer Rock Finale" - New York Times (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=797 1990: "Joni Mitchell" - London Sunday Times (Interview, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=371 1998: "A Conversation with Joni Mitchell" - KGSR-FM (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=998 1998: "Joni's Jazzed" - Chicago Tribune (Biography) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=72 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #283 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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