From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #282 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, September 8 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 282 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Laura ["mike pritchard" ] Re: guitar tunning and covers of course [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Shadows & Light DVD drawing [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Hejira (long) ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: Best joni opening lines [notaro@stpt.usf.edu] Re: timeline and Let's Sing Out ["J.David Sapp" ] Re: guitar tunning and covers of course [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Hejira (long) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: timeline and Let's Sing Out [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Best opening line [John Sprackland ] RE: Hejira (long) ["Richard Flynn" ] Fender's Top 100 Guitarists list SJC ["Timothy Spong" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #449 [LCStanley7@aol.com] Joni content by 6 degrees of separation [PassScribe@aol.com] CSN, was Re: Joni content by 6 degrees of separation ["Lama-Jim L'Hommedi] Today in History: September 8 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: September 8 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 12:17:15 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: Laura PS: anybody here listen to The White Stripes? No, but I have drunk a fair few of 'em mike ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 09:33:14 EDT From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Re: guitar tunning and covers of course Thanks for letting me talk a bit about my passion Steve! My apologies to the rest of you although I guess you've deleted it by now. Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - --------------------------------------------- Bob, No apologies! Your passion has taken me off on a musical history tree of artist and recordings. I could sit in lectures from you daily to try to gather up half your covers knowledge. I think Joni would be thrilled and amazed by your endeavors, right up there with Henry Lewy and Joel Bernstein as far as documenting things of her career. You have compiled a history catalogue like no one ever has. Your passion is evident even up there on the stage when you perform." Keep talking, I'm listening". Didn't Frasier use that line? Now how do I order covers number 44? Peace Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 10:58:30 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Shadows & Light DVD drawing I was gonna keep this little secret to myself ;~) Jonimitchell.com is having a drawing. Go over there and enter before September 15th. rosie in nj NP: Let Me Down Hard, John Eddie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 11:14:10 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: Hejira (long) Well, we're all unintentionally eloquent from time to time! Hejira as an epic poem is more in the tradition of the Odyssey than the Iliad--though obviously from a differently gendered perspective. The narrative of the album goes full circle from the "white lines on the free, freeway" to the "refuge of the roads," with the speaker of the poem (we might call her Joni, but she's a speaker--or rather singer--nevertheless)having been changed in both profound and subtle ways as she rolls westward, eventually to home. (Aside--I've heard that the Blue Hotel Room is in the Tybee Island Hilton, now torn down, near Savannah--coast to coast, as the poet says). So in the sense that it involves the heroine/protagonist's exile and return, it's epic. For our speaker, Joni, the task is to "wrestle with [her] great big ego"--and the hitcher, prisoner of the white lines, ultimately is no less a trickster than "Coyote." Though what she learns is that there is some value in her drinking, womanizing friend's advice that "heart and humor and humility/. . . will lighten up your heavy load." While the friend only "mirrors" her "back simplified," the calendar in the service station certainly puts that great big ego in perspective. Now, here's why I like "Amelia" as the best lyric moment. (Epic generally addresses society and history beyond an individual's perceptions or concerns). In a lyric, a personal poem (like Sappho's) meant to be sung to a lyre, generally a metaphor or some other figure of speech controls the shorter performance--in this case, the speaker's comparison of herself with Amelia Earhart (a comparison, the speaker ultimately tempers with her own recognition that the comparison is somewhat grandiose). In fact, following "Coyote," it's the first foray into wrestling with the ego that is a major theme of the epic dimensions of the whole album. Look at the first "stanza" of Amelia: I was driving across the burning desert When I spotted six jet planes Leaving six white vapor trails across the bleak terrain It was the hexagram of the heavens it was the strings of my guitar Amelia it was just a false alarm Six planes, six vapor trails, heaven's hexagram, six guitar strings. There a kind of compression, economy, resonance of imagery characteristic of good lyric poetry here. But also, the speaker's stance is thoughtful and self-questioning, but not self-lacerating in the tradition of the worst imitators of the confessional school. In the stanza where Amelia, Icarus and the speaker come together, the speaker's recognition is that it's a "false alarm" and perhaps even inappropriate for her to attach her ego to mythical or historical heroes like Amelia (who nevertheless it the muse of this poem) or Icarus. She returns to and alludes to a "simpler" time in her own poetic career: "clouds" no longer seen from both sides now, but she has spent her whole life lost in them, "at icy altitudes" and of course, she pulls into the Cactus Tree motel. Note the neat closure of the lyric poem as it returns to it's beginning: 747s and geometric (hexagrams?) farms. I love each poem within the long poem Hejira, but this one seems to me to be the most finely crafted, as I hope I've suggested (though in haste, and somewhat incompletely, I'm afraid). Richard > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of > Murphycopy@aol.com > Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 1:15 AM > To: "Richard Flynn"; SCJoniGuy@aol.com; joni@smoe.org > Subject: RE: Best joni opening lines > > > Richard wrote to Muller: > > << Must go to be now. >> > > Wow, Richard -- deep! And the most poignant and appropriate typo > of this sad week. > > Earlier, I thought Muller was saying that he thought "Hejira" was > the most poetic *song* from the "Hejira" album. To me, it's > nearly a toss-up between "Hejira" and "Amelia," but "Amelia" wins > because it hits me right in the heart and soul, whereas "Hejira" > has a little bit more of a cerebral feeling. I would love to hear > your thoughts on the two songs, as well as your thoughts about > the enire album's epic poem-ness. > > Must go to be now myself! > > --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 12:31:29 -0400 (EDT) From: notaro@stpt.usf.edu Subject: Re: Best joni opening lines Quoting SCJoniGuy@aol.com: > But if you don't mind explaining, what's the difference between an epic > poem > (I know like Beowulf or Homer) and a lyric poem? > > Bob, always up for education Let me teach you tonight........ An epic poem is about the story, a lyric poem is about the words and imagery. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 11:56:36 -0500 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: Re: timeline and Let's Sing Out This to me is just one of the AMAZING things about Let's Sing Out. We see the transformation from Joan Anderson to the Joni Mitchell we all love. But it is not just her countenance that changed. I attribute it to her musical genius which grew so fast from say '65 to the recording of Mingus - its mind blowing and unprecedented. Look at the songwriting. Favorite Colour from '65 - while well intentioned is to me very rudimentary, almost a child's song. While Just Like Me from '66 is gorgeous Joni that would have fit on any album thru FTR. peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 14:48:55 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: guitar tunning and covers of course > Your passion has taken me off on a musical history tree of > artist and recordings. Wow - thanks David! Such kind words, but not surprising knowing what a good soul you are. And you're right...doing the research and finding these things in the first place has been an incredible journey for me. > Now how do I order covers number 44? Well of course ALL volumes are available (I am working on remastering a couple of early volumes) for blanks/postage or cost for same. You can either Paypal me or mail me costs, or send as many blanks as you want with return postage. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 14:55:40 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira (long) > (though in haste, and > somewhat incompletely, I'm afraid). That was quite a nice piece, Richard - thanks for taking the time to put it down. Incomplete? Of course, as I think one could write volumes about the lyricism of this record. And the same technique that you credit to Amelia (the closure referencing the beginning) can be given to Hejira as well, with the lines I'm travelling in some vehicle, I'm sitting in some cafe A defector from the petty wars That shellshock love away/Until love sucks me back that way Almost a resignation of her fate, like saying she's a prisoner of the white lines of the free way...I've never heard of Hejira referred to as an epic poem, but now I see that it is. Thanks again, Bob NP: Lucinda, "Am I Too Blue" 11/19/99 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 15:04:12 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: timeline and Let's Sing Out > This to me is just one of the AMAZING things about Let's Sing >Out. We see the transformation from Joan Anderson to the Joni >Mitchell we all love. Yes, & I suppose I assumed incorrectly that she hadn't married Chuck yet in Oct. 65 which is why she was introduced as "Joni Anderson", but as Bob points out that is incorrect, so thanks Bob for correcting that. But how telling that she chooses to be introduced with her maiden name as opposed to her married name, probably thinking in that "I can get out of this" mentality. Anyway, as for the year between Oct '65/Oct '66, I don't guess that anything overly traumatic happened to her EXCEPT for the fact that she probably was beginning to feel trapped in an oppressive and loveless marriage. You can almost see the weight of it (at times) on her face during some of those '66 performances. > Look at the songwriting. Favorite Colour from '65 - while well intentioned is > to me very rudimentary, almost a child's song. While Just > Like Me from '66 is > gorgeous Joni that would have fit on any album thru FTR. Good point, David...as much as I loved hearing a "new" Joni song, when I heard her use the "glove/love" rhyme, I knew that she was still beginning, but like you say a year later when we hear "Blue On Blue", "Just Like Me", "Urge For Going" we see a tremendous amount of artistic growth. Bob NP: Lucinda, "Lake Charles" 11/19/99 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 20:33:41 +0100 From: John Sprackland Subject: Best opening line For me, probably "He bought her diamonds for her throat..." - I just love the way Joni slows down and relishes the rhythm of those words. John Southport, UK NP: 'Land/Man(?) Beyond the Moon' The Chesterfields Kings on wfmu.org... crazy! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 16:13:16 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Hejira (long) I agree with you Bob about Hejira's nearly inexhaustible epic lyricism, and I hope I didn't imply that the wonderful title track was inferior. It contains in microcosm the themes of the entire work, as well as its ultimate humility: "Well I looked at the granite markers Those tribute to finality to eternity And then I looked at myself here Chicken scratching for my immortality" Not to mention Jaco's bass line--as lyrical and expressive as Joni's lyrics and melody. When it used to be that you'd turn over the record after this & get "Song for Sharon," you'd get a more narrative and home-like (or Heimlich) flipside to the Unheimlich (uncanny) version of the way we're sucked back by love. Side 2, in fact, comments on side 1--its specificity and antidote to the speaker's (I mean singer's) flight from a world that is "all emotions and abstractions." OK-- I'm going of to be now. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of > SCJoniGuy@aol.com > Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 2:56 PM > To: rflynn@frontiernet.net; joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Hejira (long) > > > > (though in haste, and > > somewhat incompletely, I'm afraid). > > That was quite a nice piece, Richard - thanks for taking the > time to put it down. Incomplete? Of course, as I think one could > write volumes about the lyricism of this record. > > And the same technique that you credit to Amelia (the closure > referencing the beginning) can be given to Hejira as well, with > the lines > > I'm travelling in some vehicle, > I'm sitting in some cafe > A defector from the petty wars > That shellshock love away/Until love sucks me back that way > > Almost a resignation of her fate, like saying she's a prisoner > of the white lines of the free way...I've never heard of Hejira > referred to as an epic poem, but now I see that it is. > > Thanks again, > Bob > > NP: Lucinda, "Am I Too Blue" 11/19/99 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 20:16:17 +0000 From: "Timothy Spong" Subject: Fender's Top 100 Guitarists list SJC Recently, there's been discussion here of Rolling Stone magazine's "Top 100 Guitarists of All Time" article in the current issue. Much was made of the fact that Joni Mitchell and Joan Jett are the only women represented thereon. Among those that other members have mentioned that belong there are Bonnie Raitt and Shawn Colvin (well, I'm not entirely sure that Shawn Colvin was mentioned here -- there was a similar discussion on the Message Board on Janis Ian's site). Fender Musical Instruments, or whatever the corporate name is these days, sends me a monthly e-mail which includes a link to a full-graphic newsletter, "60-Cycle Hum" -- the "Hum" itself doesn't come to my e-mail -- and the newest "Hum" includes THEIR version of a Top 100 Guitarists list. They compiled theirs by asking 25 key in-house people to each nominate 15 guitarists, and then, the idea was to combine them into a top 100. All those that got from 2 votes up summed to fewer than 100, but adding all those that were tied at 1 vote each sums to more than 100. They published the whole list. Bonnie Raitt and Shawn Colvin each drew 1 vote, and on a cursory look, were the only women mentioned. No Joni, no Joan (Jett). Tim Spong Dover, Del., U.S.A. _________________________________________________________________ Get 10MB of e-mail storage! Sign up for Hotmail Extra Storage. http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 16:35:39 -0500 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: Re: timeline and Let's Sing Out And then 10 years later Charlie Mingus came calling. Jeeeeez Louise how did she do that? peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 18:41:11 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #449 Mark wrote: I don't know. I > think I could forgive this but the whole attitude about > Edward's > illness and some hedging with her daughter about my relationship with > Edward prior to that have always left me uneasy. It was something I > never expected from this person. If anyone has any thoughts about this, I > would appreciate hearing them. Grieving is a strange process. I lost my mother to cancer about 4 years ago and still grieve. I had a baby at the time, and he wasn't even a year old. Grieving and having children around is complicated - I speak from experience. I don't know all the details of what you are writing about here Mark, but I would suggest you don't take anything personally. It isn't easy to grieve and it isn't easy to parent... I would bet that's what this is about; not about you. All we can do is love despite being hurt by people or not understanding them or not being understood by them. I hope you two can reconcile. Time and prayer have a way of opening doors again. With love, Dr. Laura ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 00:25:42 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Joni content by 6 degrees of separation Just thought I'd mention that I was up to my Daughter's in CT for the weekend; my grandson's first birthday party was Sunday. When I talked to my daughter on Thursday, she mentioned that Crosby, Stills & Nash were going to be at the Oakdale theater (in Wallingford, exactly 3 miles from Joanne's) on Saturday, and maybe I'd want to go. I usually see them each year when they appear at MSG in Manhattan but figured, "what the hey?" To make a long story short, no one else wanted to go (wife Ro is still recovering from eye surgery) and because I was only buying one ticket, was able to score a front row seat in the mid orchestra section to the right side of the stage. I was probably a hundred feet from stage center, so close that with my binoculars, could not fit all three guys in the view at the same time; most often, couldn't even get two of them in unless they were right next to each other. Best part is, ticket was only $56. (including those "fees" they charge now) so for half the price of a ticket to be further back at MSG in NYC, I got a much better seat in a venue that holds only 4,800 people. If anyone you know is scheduled to appear at Oakdale, it worth going out of your way for... the last seat in the house is still better than most seats half-way back in a much-larger venue. BTW, the guys put on a typically great show. Highlights included a fabulous rendition of "DejaVu", with Crosby introducing it to the crowd by saying, "Stephen writes the rock & roll, Graham writes the deep ballads... and I write the weird shit." (Pause while people laugh, then...) "I'm well-suited for it." (More laughs.) In an out-of-character move, Stills played keyboards onband sangban old blues number (title escapes me, I think Booker T wrote it) and Nash played keyboards on a fine, dramatic version of "Cathedral." Stills' voice is showing signs of wear on some tunes but Crosby sounds stronger than ever; Nash is like Dorian Gray... never seems to get older. They started promptly at 7:30, took a 15 minute break and finished the last encore at 10:25. Old friends Joe Vitale played drums, Michael Finnigan played piano, Hammond B3 and misc. keyboards and a new, young bass player (who's name I've forgotten,) is touring with them for the first time. Lots of standing ovations from the crowd; the folks were really INTO it... the guys said this was the "loudest audience" they've played to on the tour. Oh, yeah... they played "Woodstock" as one of their encores... sure, we all sang along! (My Joni content through six degrees of separation.) Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 00:58:17 -0400 From: "Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: CSN, was Re: Joni content by 6 degrees of separation Some of their shows in the 70s were a bit rough. Once everyone..... uhmmm.... got healthy, they seemed to learn their parts and stay at them. The first two times I saw them it sounded like everyone was trying to take the harmonies in a different direction. (I apologize to those who know the jargon better but) if everyone goes "flat" and no one goes "sharp", it doesn't sound like harmony. It just sounds "flat". CSN lives up to the expression "gets better with age." Lama From: > Best part is, ticket was only $56. (including those "fees" they charge > now) so for half the price of a ticket to be further back at MSG in NYC, I got a > much better seat in a venue that holds only 4,800 people. If anyone you know > is scheduled to appear at Oakdale, it worth going out of your way for... the > last seat in the house is still better than most seats half-way back in a > much-larger venue. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 02:00:07 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: September 8 1974: Joni performed at the Roosevelt Raceway in New York 1979: Joni performed at the Civic Auditorium in San Francisco More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=881 http://www.jonimitchell.com/SF79.html - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 02:00:07 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: September 8 On September 8 the following articles were published: 1998: "Beatles Dominate All-Time Albums Poll" - Billboard (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=51 2001: "Words From A Woman Of Heart And Mind" - Billboard (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=677 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #282 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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